Author Topic: AI investing  (Read 2794 times)

inline five

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AI investing
« on: October 20, 2017, 01:53:01 PM »

GuitarStv

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Re: AI investing
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2017, 03:11:56 PM »
Cool!

scottish

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Re: AI investing
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 03:41:43 PM »
It's an interesting idea.   There are lots of training data - something that machine learning systems require.    Whether or not the stock market can be modeled this way is an open question.

Scortius

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Re: AI investing
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 04:33:18 PM »
Very cool, but also a laughably small sample size, for now. One thing people need to really understand is the underlying 'complexity' of the market. When I say complexity, I'm not talking about it being complicated in the colloquial sense, I'm talking about it having all the hallmarks of a true complex system. Complex systems exhibit behavior that is bounded over large scales, but impossible to predict over short ones. It requires exponential gains in measurement accuracy to produce linear gains in prediction accuracy.

The simple thought exercise that works well to explain the market is to assume that 1) you could design a system to accurately forecast future market movements.  If so, 2) you would act upon that information, valuing assets on their speculative value. If you are the only one who can do this, then you win.  But, if 3) the information you use to accurately predict the market is available to everyone, then others can design the same system you can.  If so, then 4) the speculative valuations you use to take advantage of market prices become baked into the price of the market as soon as the information becomes available to you.  If so, then 5) the system you build to beat the market can no longer do so, as it has affected the market itself in what can be considered a feedback loop.

So, the trick to beating the market is to either A) jump onto the complex system train and trust in the large scale boundaries, or B) devise a system that can do what nobody else does and beat the market over the short term as well. A is easy and is what we all do. B can be done, but only by the vanishingly few, and those that do succeed absolutely must avoid disclosing their system to anyone else.

obstinate

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Re: AI investing
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 10:44:26 PM »
Very cool, but also a laughably small sample size, for now. One thing people need to really understand is the underlying 'complexity' of the market. When I say complexity, I'm not talking about it being complicated in the colloquial sense, I'm talking about it having all the hallmarks of a true complex system. Complex systems exhibit behavior that is bounded over large scales, but impossible to predict over short ones. It requires exponential gains in measurement accuracy to produce linear gains in prediction accuracy.

The simple thought exercise that works well to explain the market is to assume that 1) you could design a system to accurately forecast future market movements.  If so, 2) you would act upon that information, valuing assets on their speculative value. If you are the only one who can do this, then you win.  But, if 3) the information you use to accurately predict the market is available to everyone, then others can design the same system you can.  If so, then 4) the speculative valuations you use to take advantage of market prices become baked into the price of the market as soon as the information becomes available to you.  If so, then 5) the system you build to beat the market can no longer do so, as it has affected the market itself in what can be considered a feedback loop.

So, the trick to beating the market is to either A) jump onto the complex system train and trust in the large scale boundaries, or B) devise a system that can do what nobody else does and beat the market over the short term as well. A is easy and is what we all do. B can be done, but only by the vanishingly few, and those that do succeed absolutely must avoid disclosing their system to anyone else.
Even disclosing the existence of the system seems like a foolish risk (unless it was mandated by some kind of government reporting requirement). Maybe they feel they could use more capital?

scottish

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Re: AI investing
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 03:33:44 PM »
The disclosure was just a marketing gimmick to take advantage of the current hype around machine learning, deep learning and artificial intelligence.

obstinate

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Re: AI investing
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 10:00:17 PM »
If that is indeed what it was, then it is subsumed in my speculation that they need more capital. There are funds that do not market themselves because they don't need more capital. There are some you can't invest in even if you do know about them, no matter how much money you have.

scottish

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Re: AI investing
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2017, 02:30:20 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's an ETF.   They use a mechanism to track the value of the stocks that make up the ETF.

One mechanism is described here:   http://www.etf.com/etf-education-center/7540-what-is-the-etf-creationredemption-mechanism.html?nopaging=1

With this approach the ETF provider uses creation units to track the underlying stocks accurately.     If the ETF is in high demand, it's price will rise and arbitrageurs should purchase more creation units which they will sell in some pieces to increase supply.   

I think you're describing a more conventional mutual fund.   These can limit sales directly, although I'm not clear why they would.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!