aging parents are killing me!

[slackmax]

My parents DID plan for their future, and still ended up being a huge burden on me and my sister.  One sister is totally unburdened by all this, but she her own problems to contend with.

Dad had dementia and was a huge burden on my mom. Mom decided she wanted to move into very expensive retirement place, even though she could have had in home care for dad for much less cost.   

In retirement place, Dad was still huge burden on Mom. Finally Dad went into memory care at the retirement place. Paid for 90 percent by long term care insurance (an example of good planning).  Now Mom is unburdened. 7 months later Dad dies. Huge burden of handling the will falls on me, my sister, and Mom.

Prior to all this, many hospital visits for both Mom and Dad burdening my sister and me. 

Always having to make decisions for the parents. Plan for them. Watch out for their mistakes. Fix their mistakes.  Watch out for and correct ripoffs by retirement place staff and medical places. Lots of vultures out there preying on feeble minded old people.

I am bitter about it, and this is even WITH my parents having planned for their future. 

I've read the horror stories here about the people whose parents did not plan, and they have it much worse.   

This sounds tough (I did not go through this, my parents are both dead).

But, hear me out a bit (just thinking out loud).

As we age, our mental faculties start to go.  Not for everyone, and not at the same rate.  But I can already tell you that my mental capacity in my late 40's isn't what it was in my 30s.  I work with many people in their 60's (with whom I've been working for 10-20 years), and I see the same slow decline in them.  I know my father's memory went.  My husband's grandmother remembered very little her last 10 years.  My FIL is feeling like his mind doesn't work like it used to.

It's a thing.

So, when it gets to the point where your parents are aging and need to go to the hospital - yes, it's going to be a burden.  My stepfather has a LOT of hospital visits these days (recovering from cancer), and luckily he has a brother and a sister nearby who are both retired (like he is) and are healthy enough to drive him.  My sister and her family live near by and help out a lot at the house with yard work and such.

The reason why we hear about the elderly being cheated or taken advantage of is because their mental faculties start to go.  SOMEONE has to keep them from making mistakes, etc.  My husband's paternal grandparents were in the lovely category of not being fully "there" at the end AND thinking it was funny to agree to do one thing but do something else (like when it comes to paying bills, etc.).  They figured that their son should come over and do all the yard work on the house because they didn't want to pay someone to do it.  That sort of thing.

As far as handling the wills and such - someone has to do that, and it's going to be a burden.  I'm not sure what you are going with there.  Would you have rather they assigned a lawyer to handle everything and get paid a lot of $$?

I considered leaving the part about the lawyer out of my 'rant', since, as you say, paying a lawyer to do it would have been an option, and 'someone has to do it'. But I left it in since it is a burden, although not  an unexpected or unusual burden, and the thread was about burdens. My sister is helping somewhat with the will, so at least there's that! Could be worse, ha ha. 




 

[familyandfarming]

Take all the stuff your elderly parents offer you! I use to decline items my mom the “treasure hunter” would offer. Now I take everything and then drop these items off at the local charities. That way I won’t have to dig it out of her house later!

[MayDay]

Take all the stuff your elderly parents offer you! I use to decline items my mom the “treasure hunter” would offer. Now I take everything and then drop these items off at the local charities. That way I won’t have to dig it out of her house later!

That is what we do.

My father would offer us things like a Rubbermaid tub of trophies from when I was 11. I would tell him to just throw them away. He couldn't part with them, though, so they are still in the garage. Plus he won't give them to me because he knows be I'll throw them! So now I just take everything the first time it's offered, and drop it at Goodwill immediately (or in my trash).

[Cassie]

At 64 I take my own stuff to the thrift stores. If my kids want it great but not leaving a mess for them.

[Imma]

My father-in-law kept dropping off a couple of boxes of "stuff" every time he visited. It was mildly annoying at the time, but I realized what he was doing. When he passed away the amount of clutter in his house was minimal.

I am starting to go with this quote as my guiding principle:
"Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."
William Morris

My dad is doing the same decluttering, planning for his end of life.  Every time I visit he offers me something, and I either take it home or decline it, and then it goes to Goodwill or the dump.  His small house is neat and tidy, so my brother and I will not have huge problems when he passes.  Polar opposite from the horror situation I faced a few years ago with my in-laws.  They were big time hoarders with a house full of crap and animals they could not care for, angrily resistant to all change as their health crumbled and they went kicking and wailing to assisted living. <shudder>

Divesting ourselves of belongings is a sad part of life but one that we all have to face.  It takes mental strength and courage.  I salute my dad for having the strength to do it with such good grace.  I hope I can do as well when my time comes.   

My 85-year old grandma is doing the same and I'm really glad she's doing it. She still lives in the big house she raised her kids in, which I understand because she's still in a good shape physically and she's in a tight-knit community. None of her kids and grandkids live really close, so we're happy knowing that her neighbours keep an eye on her.

What I love about her way of decluttering is that she's very thoughtful: she carefully picks out stuff she knows we will love and recycles /  throws away the rest. When I first moved out she gave me a perfectly good matrass and blanket (one of her guest beds she no longer needed) and someone else got a kitchen table they still use. All the ugly as sin 70s vases and trinkets were given to the cleaner who's into vintage stuff. In Dutch there's a saying that it's better to give with a warm hand than with a cold hand, and I think that's absolutely true.

I know I won't have to worry about my own mother. She doesn't have a lot of stuff and I know she's planning to move to an apartment when she's 65-70. My father is a different story, but he's not a burden on me because we're not in touch. My siblings worry about him all the time. He's the kind of person who buys a split-level house at the age of 60, having had 3 heart surgeries and knee issues. I sort of understand not wanting to leave the home you raised your family in, but actively buying the most unsuitable property you can find for retirement is a whole new level of stupidity. My siblings kind of resent me for releasing myself of this burden.

[saguaro]

Take all the stuff your elderly parents offer you! I use to decline items my mom the “treasure hunter” would offer. Now I take everything and then drop these items off at the local charities. That way I won’t have to dig it out of her house later!

That is what we do.

My father would offer us things like a Rubbermaid tub of trophies from when I was 11. I would tell him to just throw them away. He couldn't part with them, though, so they are still in the garage. Plus he won't give them to me because he knows be I'll throw them! So now I just take everything the first time it's offered, and drop it at Goodwill immediately (or in my trash).

Interesting story along the above lines:  my in-laws briefly decluttered for a while after experiencing a flood in their basement.   Shortly after their flood, they called one day, asking to visit us for no apparent reason which was weird because they never did that before as we live a distance away and so we were always "too far".  Anyway, they arrive and we see the real reason for the visit:  their car was packed with stuff to give to DH.   Some of it was childhood stuff and the rest was stuff they thought we should have.  None of it was affected by the flood, btw, they tossed that stuff out, but the flood convinced them to declutter their basement, which is good.  We took the stuff of course, said thanks, then tossed and gave to Goodwill afterward. 

Later on, they ask what we did with the stuff: do we use the golf clubs?  Where is the picture of some (unknown to DH) relative?  Where's the ugly lamp?   Can't remember our answers but they discerned later, from insisting on walking through our garage on a later visit, that we didn't keep the stuff.  Since then, they won't give us anything because we will "throw it away".  Oh well, what can you do?  At least the basement is still fairly clean after all these years so we won't have to clear that out later.

[clutchy]

This is a great topic and hopefully an eye opening experience for most! 

Plan ahead!  My parents are 69 & 70, I have seen the same resistance to doing what they need to do and keeping extra stuff around.  I'm currently working to squash potential issues.

1. Get them setup on auto pay for all utilities
2. Get someone to take care of their yard
3. Get a housekeeper
4. Make sure they are exercising on a daily or atleast 3-4x per week. 
5. Make sure the will and trust are in place
6. MOST importantly have a conversation with them in advance and talk through what their plan is.  Get them thinking years in advance.

[Cassie]

Clutch, most people I know at your parents ages are still taking care of their own house ( in and outside).  Unless disabled your parents aren’t that old.

[Pigeon]

Clutch, most people I know at your parents ages are still taking care of their own house ( in and outside).  Unless disabled your parents aren’t that old.

Me too.   The older people in our families managed their own lives quite well into their 90s.  I can see doing some planning in the early 70s, but unless there are issues, the 70 year olds I know are relaxing in retirement, playing golf and having fun.

And unless they were volunteering to pay for it, I'm not seeing that it's the adult child's position to tell the parents to pay for a housekeeper or do yard work.  Unless the parents aren't in good shape to begin with, both of those things provide exercise.

[wenchsenior]

Clutch, most people I know at your parents ages are still taking care of their own house ( in and outside).  Unless disabled your parents aren’t that old.

Me too.   The older people in our families managed their own lives quite well into their 90s.  I can see doing some planning in the early 70s, but unless there are issues, the 70 year olds I know are relaxing in retirement, playing golf and having fun.

And unless they were volunteering to pay for it, I'm not seeing that it's the adult child's position to tell the parents to pay for a housekeeper or do yard work.  Unless the parents aren't in good shape to begin with, both of those things provide exercise.

Not to mention, I'm not sure how one is supposed to "make sure" parents are exercising daily.  If it was that easy to make sure other people did things, we wouldn't have most of our social problems relating to bad health choices.

[Cassie]

We are 64 and thankfully my kids aren’t giving us unwanted advice. My mom managed her own life until she died from cancer at 89.  Yes she asked if she needed help but we certainly didn’t try to run her life.

[clutchy]

Clutch, most people I know at your parents ages are still taking care of their own house ( in and outside).  Unless disabled your parents aren’t that old.

 

That's fair; It just takes a decade to get my parents to change so I need to start early.   

You're right though, it's not that old and maybe I should butt out.

[Cassie]

Unless they get dementia butt out. They are not children and don’t have to do what you think is good for them.   They only need to change if they want to.

[Roadrunner53]

Unless they get dementia butt out. They are not children and don’t have to do what you think is good for them.   They only need to change if they want to.

Agreed.

[Dancin'Dog]

These threads remind me of how good the Waltons grandparents had it on Walton's Mountain. 

[clutchy]

Unless they get dementia butt out. They are not children and don’t have to do what you think is good for them.   They only need to change if they want to.

 

that's what I'm trying to avoid... 

anyways they are children in a few respects; they don't understand finance.  I had to rescue their retirement or they would have been living in poverty.  They don't have a will and would have died intestate. 

I refuse to butt out and let them drag me into misery when it can easily be avoided.  Sometimes tough love comes from your professional adult kids. 

and that's what it really comes down to is love.  I love them too much to see them make foolish choices that can readily and easily be changed to enhance their happiness and longevity.  I'm not telling them how to live their lives but I am making modifications at the periphery to enhance their well being.

[SweetTPi]

If I were handling my parents' estate, [...]

@saguaro, I was under the (vague) impression that if one is party to an estate, and the executor was lagging, then one could challenge the executor nomination in court and have them removed from the role.  That would of course cause drama-drama with your sister, but have you given that thought?

[saguaro]

If I were handling my parents' estate, [...]

@saguaro, I was under the (vague) impression that if one is party to an estate, and the executor was lagging, then one could challenge the executor nomination in court and have them removed from the role.  That would of course cause drama-drama with your sister, but have you given that thought?

Yes, I have considered the possibility.   Of course, one major drawback of doing this would not just be drama beyond anything I have ever seen with sister but would likely and permanently sever the relationship with her and other family members, namely BIL and nephews.   So not something to be taken lightly. 

ETA: Another option is to request an accounting of estate property and funds, which doesn't request any change of executors but would require my sister to account for (and perhaps rethink) some of the needless fixes she wants to do on the house over my and my other sister's objections.  This may automatically occur after a year of opening the estate with the probate court and she's closing in on the one year mark as of December.   That could get her moving and the legal system would be the villain, not me.     

[PeggySue]

@Cassie I really appreciate your point of view and would appreciate some advice.

My parents, especially my dad, were really rotten parents.  (The kind that has required 20 steady years of therapy).  They are now both in their late 70's with no money and no assets, as well as the standard house falling apart and full of stuff no one wants.  A few years ago my mother had a very serious fall and really showed us what their future was going to look like.  I convinced my mom to talk about  serious things: wills, plans/hopes for care, even what kind of memorial or funeral they would like.  I said that we would like to make sure they had some comfort in years to come but my husband and I really needed to understand what we would have to plan for.  My husband and I made the drive to see them and she reneged on talking about these things.  It led to a huge blow-up with my father and we have been estranged ever since (no contact at all).  I realize that it was hard  for the parent to accept help or advice or have the child being the adult.  Thoughts on how to have handled this better?

The estrangement has helped my mental health tremendously, but I know leaving on them own will end ugly.

[Cassie]

Wow Peggy that’s a sad situation. My parents were upfront with us and we helped when they asked and wanted it which is what I want my kids to do.   If there is any way to rebuild the relationship it would help.  I think helping is a too way street but hate it when kids try to take over.

[Cassie]

Clutch, if you want your kids to do exactly what you are doing for your parents to you than you are probably making the right choice.  I loved my parents very much but also respected them and only helped when they wanted it. They were adults until the day they died.  Thankfully my kids respect us in the same way.

[Sibley]

@Cassie I really appreciate your point of view and would appreciate some advice.

My parents, especially my dad, were really rotten parents.  (The kind that has required 20 steady years of therapy).  They are now both in their late 70's with no money and no assets, as well as the standard house falling apart and full of stuff no one wants.  A few years ago my mother had a very serious fall and really showed us what their future was going to look like.  I convinced my mom to talk about  serious things: wills, plans/hopes for care, even what kind of memorial or funeral they would like.  I said that we would like to make sure they had some comfort in years to come but my husband and I really needed to understand what we would have to plan for.  My husband and I made the drive to see them and she reneged on talking about these things.  It led to a huge blow-up with my father and we have been estranged ever since (no contact at all).  I realize that it was hard  for the parent to accept help or advice or have the child being the adult.  Thoughts on how to have handled this better?

The estrangement has helped my mental health tremendously, but I know leaving on them own will end ugly.

Peggy, before you feel too guilty, keep in mind that there is such a thing as expected consequences.

When you're a kid, if you're mean to the other kids then no one wants to play with you on the playground. This is expected - you were mean. This applies to adults as well, though no one likes to admit it. Consider that. They may be reaping what they've sown.

[yodella]

I highly recommend the book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande:

https://www.amazon.com/Being-Mortal-Illness-Medicine-Matters/dp/1250081246

It's written by a doctor and talks about end of life care and planning, and what we get wrong, and some ideas of topics to bring up with aging parents before circumstances become dire.

As a physician, he has a unique perspective on what patients and their next of kin are dealing with, and has insight into the types of choices that lead to better outcomes for everyone involved.