Author Topic: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...  (Read 5522 times)

Askel

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Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
« on: July 26, 2022, 07:59:34 AM »
The yearly cost of car ownership has been trickling through my feed in the bird app a lot recently. I see a lot of numbers hover near the $10k/year mark: https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/average-annual-cost-of-new-vehicle-ownership

Whoa?! It can't be that bad, can it?  I've been driving my $22k toyota pickup for 10 years, how is that costing me $9k a year?! 

Well, let's take a look.  I purchased this truck new in 2012 and it has about 140000 miles on it now. One of the last vestiges of my pre-mustachian ways, but about as mustachian as you can get for a 4wd pickup.   

Purchase+taxes+interest= $23420

140k miles of driving at 20mpg figuring $3.50/gallon=$24500

Insurance- rates started at $2000/year when new, now down to $600/year for the same coverage.  Call it $13000.

Repairs (not much really, but a tree fell on it once.) $3000 

Maintenance (including 3 new sets of tires): $3600 

Registration: $1000

Total: $68520 or $6852/year. Better than average but much much higher than I expected. 

Take-aways:

1. It costs more to drive the car than to buy it. 
2. Insurance is a waste. Part of this is until some recent reformations, MI had crazy high insurance rates.   But still, I don't think I got my $13k worth out of the maybe $5k it cost to fix my truck when the tree fell on it. 
3. This also completely ignores the lost earning potential of all that money. 

Moving forward:
1. I've already reduced my driving quite a bit from the 14k miles/year this truck as seen. Moved closer to work and ride my bike, also have all the recreation I need right out my door so no need to drive for it.   
2. Basic liability insurance only.  Put those collision/comprehensive premiums in investments and I should be money ahead.   


nereo

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Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2022, 10:01:10 AM »
There’sa great deal of thorough analyses which have documented the cost of car ownership. Most coalesce around the $10k/yr mark for a typical car owner. A big divergence from your experience is that the median car costs more, is kept for far fewer years by one owner and is generally financed.

By not buying new, keeping cars for longer, not driving so much  and doing basic maintenance yourself one can make the total cost a fraction of this amount. Which is a constant theme if this forum

arrintonpalmer

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Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2022, 10:53:21 AM »
This is fun,

2009 Yaris Bought new in Jan 2009
Purchase         14000
Registrations     1440 (this is high, but I'm fuzzy on this cost the first couple years)
Insurance          5320
Repairs/maint  <2000 (Two sets of tires, 2 accessory belts, brake pads, wiper blades, oil changes, 7 inspections)
Fuel                  10694   110k@36MPG@3.50 36 is it's worst mileage, and gas has been cheaper than 3.50 most of the time.

13.5 Years at 2478/Year. Beating the average by a ton, but that's still real money and is the most cost efficient vehicle we have owned. Glad to be a typical mustachian, non-typical 'merican.

RWD

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Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2022, 11:23:43 AM »
[...]it has about 140000 miles on it now.
Total: $68520
About 49 cents per mile. Not too bad for a truck.

I bought my BRZ brand new and traded it in 7 years later. Total cost was $29,970 or $4,282/year. I drove it significantly less than the average person, so that worked out to $1.06/mile.

More recently, our last two years (2020 and 2021) of car ownership effectively cost $0 due to appreciation.

wageslave23

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Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2022, 07:03:11 PM »
Whenever I read averages like that it makes me think that I'm better than everyone else ;)  My budget is about $250 per month or about $3000 per year all in car budget.  It's crazy what people spend.

badger1988

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Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2022, 07:54:27 PM »
I'll play. No estimates here...I've kept detailed records of every vehicle expense since 2011. Here are our two current vehicles:

    2011 Ford Fiesta:
    • Purchase Date: 7/8/2011
    • Purchase price: $13,235
    • Purchase odometer: 7
    • Current odometer: 117,136
    • Fuel:$9,933.08 (34%)
    • Depreciation: $9,237.36 (31%)
    • Maintenance/Repairs: $4,164.02 (14%)
    • Insurance: $3,864.33 (13%)
    • Fees/Taxes: $2,367.62 (8%)
    • Total: $29,566.41 -- $2,675.70/yr -- $0.25/mi

      2011 Chrysler Town and Country:
      • Purchase Date: 9/2/2017
      • Purchase price: $12,269
      • Purchase odometer: 63,677
      • Current odometer: 118,426
      • Fuel:$7,916.50 (42%)
      • Depreciation: $5,320.00 (28%)
      • Maintenance/Repairs: $2,413.60 (13%)
      • Insurance: $1,314.69 (7%)
      • Fees/Taxes: $1,887.22 (10%)
      • Total: $18,852.02 -- $3,851.06/yr -- $0.34/mi
      [/list][/list]
      « Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 07:57:49 PM by badger1988 »

      bacchi

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #6 on: July 26, 2022, 10:20:52 PM »
      I also have detailed records somewhere but, last I looked, it came to around $5k/year. That's for a 2002 sports car driven over 20 years. The $/mile is very high because I rarely drive it.



      nereo

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #7 on: July 27, 2022, 05:11:21 AM »
      I also have detailed records somewhere but, last I looked, it came to around $5k/year. That's for a 2002 sports car driven over 20 years. The $/mile is very high because I rarely drive it.
      What’s the car? (Just curious)

      Askel

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #8 on: July 27, 2022, 06:26:07 AM »
      Total: $68520 or $6852/year. Better than average but much much higher than I expected. 


      Oh hey, y'all reminded me that my car is still worth something and if I stopped driving it today and sold it, the numbers would look different. 

      KBB says the private party value for my truck is still somehow $10,556.

      So it would actually be $68520-$10556=$57964 or $5796/year.   

      Man, how do you even get to the >$10k/year number for a truck that AAA reports.   

      Let me see if I can try.   Dream brodozer build. F-350, 7.3L gas, off road and snow plow prep packages. Vinyl seats and vinyl floors.  4.30 locker.  12mpg (If I'm lucky). 

      $48755 and it would take $40000 in gas to go 140,000 miles. 

      Assuming all else stays the same, we're at $109355 TCO so far.  But damn if those big trucks don't hold their value. That'd be $25k easy in today's market so TCO=84355. 

      I really need to develop a taste for those luxury trim model trucks that pretty much immediately lose 1/3 to half their value if I'm going to do my part as an American.   
      « Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 11:02:00 AM by Askel »

      Tempname23

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #9 on: July 27, 2022, 06:50:05 AM »
      We once bought a used Lexus for $4,000, (this was a very good deal)* we drove it 9 years and sold it for $3,100, that's $100 a year. We had no problems with the car, I may have had to my usual Toyota screw and epoxy fix to a door handle or two, but no big maintenance.  The  guy that bought the car came back a week later and told me how much he loves the car.
       Our daily driver is a 1997 Toyota T-100, we paid $11,000 for it in 2000. (most expensive vehicle we ever bought) In 2018 a hurricane put a small crease above and behind side rear window, 5 inches long, and two small dimple on the hood. The insurance company totaled it. The paid me $2,900 after my $1,000 deductible. I bought it back for $726 and haven't done anything to the minor damage. I Have done minor repairs over the 22 years, such as replace the contacts in the starter twice, recently replaced the starter, replaced the air conditioner compressor, and the Brake master cylinder. So my cost is about $9,000** for a 22 year driving life and it's still driven every day. That's $409 dollars a year and still decreasing, not including minor repairs.

      * We had a small business, when my wife saw a car she liked she would tell our customer, when you get ready to trade in your car, call me and I will buy it. Well it finally paid off, when we got the deal on $4,000 Lexus. It doesn't hurt that she is a cute 4'7" Asian that charms everyone!

      ** Not including minor repairs.
      « Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 06:53:25 AM by Tempname23 »

      Archipelago

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #10 on: July 27, 2022, 07:01:50 AM »
      Here's another relevant topic I made a few years back. I did out the math after selling the car in the OP for $1700. The final crunch works out to $0.34/mile.

      https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/i-added-up-the-costs-of-my-used-car-over-the-past-5-years/

      I've since purchased a used 2016 Honda Civic and plan to use it until it doesn't run anymore.

      wageslave23

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #11 on: July 27, 2022, 07:43:13 AM »
      Total: $68520 or $6852/year. Better than average but much much higher than I expected. 


      Oh hey, y'all reminded me that my car is still worth something and if I stopped driving it today and sold it, the numbers would look different. 

      KBB says the private party value for my truck is still somehow $10,556.

      So it would actually be $68520-$10556=$57964 or $5796/year.   

      Man, how do you even get to the >$10k/year number for a truck that KBB reports.   

      Let me see if I can try.   Dream brodozer build. F-350, 7.3L gas, off road and snow plow prep packages. Vinyl seats and vinyl floors.  4.30 locker.  12mpg (If I'm lucky). 

      $48755 and it would take $40000 in gas to go 140,000 miles. 

      Assuming all else stays the same, we're at $109355 TCO so far.  But damn if those big trucks don't hold their value. That'd be $25k easy in today's market so TCO=84355. 

      I really need to develop a taste for those luxury trim model trucks that pretty much immediately lose 1/3 to half their value if I'm going to do my part as an American.   

      Keep in mind that you either need to factor in interest expense, or the opportunity cost of having $20k+ wrapped up in a vehicle. I usually use about 3% interest either that I'm paying on a loan or that I'm foregoing by having the cash wrapped up in the vehicle.

      bacchi

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #12 on: July 27, 2022, 09:41:47 AM »
      I also have detailed records somewhere but, last I looked, it came to around $5k/year. That's for a 2002 sports car driven over 20 years. The $/mile is very high because I rarely drive it.
      What’s the car? (Just curious)

      Audi TT. The body and interior are in great shape but, of course, the hoses are starting to decay from age.


      Edit: The $5000/year was calculated in 2018 maybe. As most of the yearly cost comes from the purchase price, and I definitely haven't spent $5000 total over the past 4 years, it's probably down to ~$4600/year now. I'll look back and calculate the real cost of ownership when I sell/donate/junk it.
      « Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 09:54:41 AM by bacchi »

      nereo

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #13 on: July 27, 2022, 10:46:32 AM »
      I also have detailed records somewhere but, last I looked, it came to around $5k/year. That's for a 2002 sports car driven over 20 years. The $/mile is very high because I rarely drive it.
      What’s the car? (Just curious)

      Audi TT. The body and interior are in great shape but, of course, the hoses are starting to decay from age.


      Edit: The $5000/year was calculated in 2018 maybe. As most of the yearly cost comes from the purchase price, and I definitely haven't spent $5000 total over the past 4 years, it's probably down to ~$4600/year now. I'll look back and calculate the real cost of ownership when I sell/donate/junk it.

      There was a period of a couple years when I was infatuated with the TT.  Then I finally got to sit in one and realized I couldn't comfortably fit (I'm 6'5").  Oh well, I'm probably better off not having had one.

      SpareChange

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #14 on: July 27, 2022, 10:58:29 AM »
      Good thread. I bought my 2007 Focus hatchback in Sept of 2016 with just over 60k miles on it. Will cross over 128k today.

      Out the door price: $5,681.
      Reg/inspection:      $500
      Insurance:             $2600ish
      Gas:                      $5,450
      Repair:                  $500ish
      Maintenance:         $1,200ish

      Total: $15,931. Gas will become the largest expense later this year. Looks like about 23.4 cents/mile, or $227.59/mon. A little more than I thought. Hmmm.


      lifeisshort123

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #15 on: July 27, 2022, 11:18:26 AM »
      My next car will be electric.  I have a small sedan that gets decent mileage (around 30 mpg), but for the cost of gas, as well as the environmental benefits, I will be purchasing electric.

      Askel

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #16 on: July 27, 2022, 11:43:37 AM »
      I'm actually considering going the other way and buying a massive brodozer.   

      Now hear me out.... 

      I use my bike for about 75% of all personal transport needs where it's just me. 

      I'm just now heading into my third year doing this regular bike commuting thing, so I'm still trying to get a handle on what my automotive needs actually are.  And I'm also kind of hoping gas prices stay high so we get a glut of giant used brodozers at discount prices (but good god guys, knock it off with those stupid aftermarket wheels. I will pay a premium if you keep those steelies around).   

      Do I need it? Oh hell no. 

      Can I use it? Probably, personally I can probably get away with renting a truck when I need it, but I am involved in several volunteer efforts that benefit from having the ability to haul a lot of crap to hard to get to places.   

      Thinking the numbers might look like this:

      Purchase: $20000

      Yearly costs (liability insurance, 5k miles at 12mpg at $4, maintenance): $2500

      At 5k a year, 20 years of use should be a reasonable expectation so possibly looking at costs less than $4k a year.   

      Just need to keep an eye on the big dumb truck market.   Right now pretty much everything is still well north of $25k with a bazillion miles. The only thing dudebros love more than their giant trucks is driving them. Finding one driven less than 15k/year is a rare here.
      « Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 11:46:12 AM by Askel »

      Midwest_Handlebar

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #17 on: July 27, 2022, 04:44:56 PM »
      2010 Toyota corolla bought in 2012 for $13,500.
      Put 52,000 miles on it in 9 years, avg 30MPG @ $3.50/gallon = 6,066
      Insurance $300*9=$2700
      Taxes $200*9=$1800
      Maintenance = $1500
      Sold for $4,200
      Total $21,366 or $2,374 per year, or $.41 a mile

      Bought a 2017 Chevy Volt last year for $20,000 all in. Car has appreciated several thousand since then.
      Currently saving $800 in fuel a year.
      Expect the cost savings to offset the eventual higher depreciation of the new car. If I can stay around $200/month overall I'll consider it a win.
      « Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 04:53:27 PM by Midwest_Handlebar »

      lutorm

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #18 on: August 01, 2022, 08:40:59 PM »
      It seems if you're evaluating the cost of car ownership, you should also evaluate the cost of not owning one. If you bike everywhere, that'll be low, but if you rely on e.g. Uber or renting for things you would have used your car for, it will deduct from the savings of not having one.

      Must_ache

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #19 on: August 02, 2022, 06:38:51 AM »
      I bought a Honda Civic in 2017 and sold it in January during the boom for $400 more than I paid for it. 
      During that time the only maintenance was oil changes plus CVT and brake fluid and various filters, all of which I did myself for <$400.

      Tax on the car purchase = $1,000
      42K miles / 30 mi/gal @ $2.50/gal = $3,500
      Registration about $800
      Insurance about $2,000
      Total cost $7,300 or 0.17 per mile pretty low because of the unusual selling conditions.

      I replaced it with a 2022 Honda Civic for my 50th birthday which I plan to hold for the long term.

      cassafrass

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #20 on: August 02, 2022, 07:21:20 AM »
      Love this thread. I'm estimating expenses for the first two years of ownership before I started keeping good records. Repairs/Maintenance includes two sets of tires, brake pads and a water pump in addition to oil changes/fluids/filters.

      2014 Ford Fusion purchased in 2016 for $16,000
      Registration/Inspection: $950
      Repairs/Maintenance: $3500
      Insurance: $3300
      50K miles / 24 mi/gal @ $3.50/gal = $7300

      Total: $31,050 (yikes!) / $5,175 per year / 0.62 per mi

      This exercise is reinforcing my decision to take public transit to work - cost of driving is $16.12 plus $12 parking per day. Sheesh. Public transit is $5.50 per day and soon to be free with the employee benefits when I start a new job in a few weeks.


      scottnews

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #21 on: August 02, 2022, 08:31:34 AM »
      Love this thread. I'm estimating expenses for the first two years of ownership before I started keeping good records. Repairs/Maintenance includes two sets of tires, brake pads and a water pump in addition to oil changes/fluids/filters.

      2014 Ford Fusion purchased in 2016 for $16,000
      Registration/Inspection: $950
      Repairs/Maintenance: $3500
      Insurance: $3300
      50K miles / 24 mi/gal @ $3.50/gal = $7300

      Total: $31,050 (yikes!) / $5,175 per year / 0.62 per mi

      This exercise is reinforcing my decision to take public transit to work - cost of driving is $16.12 plus $12 parking per day. Sheesh. Public transit is $5.50 per day and soon to be free with the employee benefits when I start a new job in a few weeks.

      I added the opportunity cost on.   Assuming 7% growth / year and the car was purchased in cash.   If the money had been invested when it was spent.   



      Must_ache

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #22 on: August 02, 2022, 08:42:32 AM »
      2014 Ford Fusion purchased in 2016 for $16,000
      50K miles / 24 mi/gal @ $3.50/gal = $7300

      24mpg is pretty sad for a vehicle of that size. 

      RWD

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #23 on: August 02, 2022, 08:53:33 AM »
      2014 Ford Fusion purchased in 2016 for $16,000
      50K miles / 24 mi/gal @ $3.50/gal = $7300

      24mpg is pretty sad for a vehicle of that size.

      Mixed use EPA ratings for the 2014 Fusion range from 25 mpg (AWD model) to 41 mpg (hybrid FWD model). 24 mpg would definitely be on the low end of what I'd expect.

      roomtempmayo

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #24 on: August 02, 2022, 09:30:38 AM »

      Purchase: $20000

      Yearly costs (liability insurance, 5k miles at 12mpg at $4, maintenance): $2500

      At 5k a year, 20 years of use should be a reasonable expectation so possibly looking at costs less than $4k a year.   


      Finding a 4x4 truck for 20k with 20 years of life left in it seems optimistic, at least right now.


      Askel

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #25 on: August 02, 2022, 10:36:13 AM »

      Finding a 4x4 truck for 20k with 20 years of life left in it seems optimistic, at least right now.

      I've been keeping my eye on a couple. These trucks basically last forever if you don't load them up with a billion miles or let them rust out. 

      https://nmi.craigslist.org/ctd/d/clinton-township-2000-gmc-sierra-x4/7513790068.html

      Even if it's lead a hard life, replacing anything on the 5.7L drivetrain should be pretty economical.   

      joemandadman189

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #26 on: August 02, 2022, 10:42:59 AM »
      It seems if you're evaluating the cost of car ownership, you should also evaluate the cost of not owning one. If you bike everywhere, that'll be low, but if you rely on e.g. Uber or renting for things you would have used your car for, it will deduct from the savings of not having one.

      Would you include the cost of additional time to complete your trips by bike? this is a big deal for me as time is a premium, i could bike a lot more but it takes to long.
      Say you are commuting to work and it takes 30 minutes to bike and 15 mins to drive, would you include that as a net loss as that would be 30 minutes a day you cant work?

      Arbitrage

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #27 on: August 02, 2022, 11:35:47 AM »
      It seems if you're evaluating the cost of car ownership, you should also evaluate the cost of not owning one. If you bike everywhere, that'll be low, but if you rely on e.g. Uber or renting for things you would have used your car for, it will deduct from the savings of not having one.

      Would you include the cost of additional time to complete your trips by bike? this is a big deal for me as time is a premium, i could bike a lot more but it takes to long.
      Say you are commuting to work and it takes 30 minutes to bike and 15 mins to drive, would you include that as a net loss as that would be 30 minutes a day you cant work?

      I wouldn't if I ever spent any time exercising, since now you get 30 minutes of exercise without having to take time out of your day to drive to the gym and exercise.

      If I didn't spend any time exercising, I'd question my other life choices. 

      Just Joe

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #28 on: August 02, 2022, 12:21:38 PM »

      Finding a 4x4 truck for 20k with 20 years of life left in it seems optimistic, at least right now.

      I've been keeping my eye on a couple. These trucks basically last forever if you don't load them up with a billion miles or let them rust out. 

      https://nmi.craigslist.org/ctd/d/clinton-township-2000-gmc-sierra-x4/7513790068.html

      Even if it's lead a hard life, replacing anything on the 5.7L drivetrain should be pretty economical.

      Sold in a day!

      BDWW

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #29 on: August 02, 2022, 01:16:17 PM »
      Fitting video released today.  Numbers are primarily European, but probably conservative compared to US.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztHZj6QNlkM

      roomtempmayo

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #30 on: August 02, 2022, 08:57:25 PM »

      Finding a 4x4 truck for 20k with 20 years of life left in it seems optimistic, at least right now.

      I've been keeping my eye on a couple. These trucks basically last forever if you don't load them up with a billion miles or let them rust out. 

      https://nmi.craigslist.org/ctd/d/clinton-township-2000-gmc-sierra-x4/7513790068.html

      Even if it's lead a hard life, replacing anything on the 5.7L drivetrain should be pretty economical.

      Sold in a day!

      Not sure what was linked since it's gone, but the URL seems to indicate a 2000 GMC Sierra.  Do you think a 2000-era vehicle will be on the road in 20 years?  Here in the land of ice and snow, a 22 year old vehicle is elderly, and perhaps you could get five years out of it.

      I've long wanted a four wheel drive truck (and posted about it here), but I've never seen it being a sane financial choice unless you need it to make a living or you have so much money you don't need to care.

      cassafrass

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #31 on: August 03, 2022, 06:31:11 AM »
      2014 Ford Fusion purchased in 2016 for $16,000
      50K miles / 24 mi/gal @ $3.50/gal = $7300

      24mpg is pretty sad for a vehicle of that size.

      Yes, it's terrible. I live in an area with notoriously poor road quality and a lot of hills that I think probably effects my mileage. Could also be that I'm not a great driver, but I'd like to think that's not the main reason ;)

      On a side note, I just had my tires replaced and the old set only lasted about 40% of the mileage warranty - I asked the mechanic and he said that's common for our area and if you cross the state line where roads are flatter and in better condition, you can almost double the lifespan of your tires.

      Askel

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #32 on: August 03, 2022, 01:24:05 PM »

      Sold in a day!

      Not sure what was linked since it's gone, but the URL seems to indicate a 2000 GMC Sierra.  Do you think a 2000-era vehicle will be on the road in 20 years?  Here in the land of ice and snow, a 22 year old vehicle is elderly, and perhaps you could get five years out of it.

      I've long wanted a four wheel drive truck (and posted about it here), but I've never seen it being a sane financial choice unless you need it to make a living or you have so much money you don't need to care.

      Dammit! I knew I shouldn't have tipped my hand on that one. It's been listed for weeks. Which one of you scored an absolutely cherry flatbed dually 3500 with a 9' plow and only 53k on the clock for $12.5k?   


      bryan995

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #33 on: August 04, 2022, 04:03:44 AM »
      I’ll play, but where are all the other EV owners ? :)

      It’s an expensive car - I get it. But it was purchased because the “value” seemed insane. And assuming my math is correct, that seems to be true thus far. .

      2021 Tesla Model Y Standard Range
      Initial Cost: $41,990 + $3,149 tax - $2000 CVRP
      Current Value: $53,000 (15,000 miles)

      Registration: $500/yr
      Maintenance: $300/yr
      Insurance: $600/yr
      Financing at 1.1%: $250/yr
      Electricity: 12000 miles @ 261 Wh/mi = 3120kwh = $280/yr

      Total Burn Rate: $1,930 per year / $0.16 per mi

      However, even after two years, the vehicle is now worth >$9000 more then what I bought it for.

      If I sold today, then:
      Total (net) Burn Rate: -$2,570 per year / -$0.21 per mi

      « Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 05:37:38 AM by bryan995 »

      RWD

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #34 on: August 04, 2022, 07:44:29 AM »
      I’ll play, but where are all the other EV owners ? :)
      We haven't had our EV long enough for meaningful numbers (acquired in January). And the biggest problem (for calculating costs) is I can't find reliable depreciation data for Polestars. But it has cost us roughly 3.2 cents per mile so far in electricity.

      Askel

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #35 on: August 05, 2022, 04:29:05 AM »
      EV owners- 

      I'm definitely intrigued by your numbers. How do you calculate your electricity usage? Is that what the car reports moving itself down the road or what you've seen in your electric bills? 

      I'm curious how to go about calculating how much my electricity meter might spin compared to how much electricity it takes just to make the wheels spin. 

      https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36064484/evs-explained-consumption-versus-efficiency/

      bryan995

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #36 on: August 05, 2022, 10:23:56 PM »
      EV owners- 

      I'm definitely intrigued by your numbers. How do you calculate your electricity usage? Is that what the car reports moving itself down the road or what you've seen in your electric bills? 

      I'm curious how to go about calculating how much my electricity meter might spin compared to how much electricity it takes just to make the wheels spin. 

      https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36064484/evs-explained-consumption-versus-efficiency/

      Each car does it differently, and it does depend on your driving habits :)

      For Tesla, they report the cars current & historical efficiency (in Wh/mi) and then the kWh consumed to charge (there are some charging losses).

      Here is what the charging stats look like (the app was incorrectly set to calculate at a $0.15/kwh instead of ~$0.09, so the totals will be off slightly)
      https://imgur.com/uuWvGX9

      The car also shows usage across various trips. We tend to drive closer to 80 than we do the  65 speed limit. Which of course impacts efficiency :)
      https://imgur.com/a/NIBsuHW

      We are on a TOU utility plan, and normally only ever charge during 'super-off-peak' from midnight-6am.  The cost in CA for super-off-peak is ~$0.09/kWh.

      Technically we have ~$20k of solar on our roof, so don't actually pay for electricity anymore (we pre-paid our utilities via a solar loan at 0.99% ;))
      But if we did pay, the cost to drive the EV would be close to what the charge-stats estimates!



      « Last Edit: August 07, 2022, 10:37:19 AM by bryan995 »

      RWD

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #37 on: August 06, 2022, 06:25:40 AM »
      EV owners- 

      I'm definitely intrigued by your numbers. How do you calculate your electricity usage? Is that what the car reports moving itself down the road or what you've seen in your electric bills? 

      I'm curious how to go about calculating how much my electricity meter might spin compared to how much electricity it takes just to make the wheels spin. 

      https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36064484/evs-explained-consumption-versus-efficiency/

      I looked up the usable capacity of my EV's battery (75 kWh). Then I've tracked every time I've charged the change in percentage and figured out what that correlated to in usage (e.g. 47% -> 80% = ~25 kWh). I multiple that by our electricity rate to get a rough estimate of cost (ignores charging losses and there's rounding).

      FireBound

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #38 on: August 08, 2022, 12:44:39 PM »
      It seems if you're evaluating the cost of car ownership, you should also evaluate the cost of not owning one. If you bike everywhere, that'll be low, but if you rely on e.g. Uber or renting for things you would have used your car for, it will deduct from the savings of not having one.
      Really good point.

      Where I live, I don't need to use a car daily, but I do use it to go buy weekly groceries, the odd date night out, kids' sporting events every other week, etc. 

      So I opt for a cheap hatchback / crossover that can hold kids sports equipment, and versatile enough and fuel efficient enough to go run errands with.

      lifeisshort123

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #39 on: August 08, 2022, 03:24:21 PM »
      I think MMM’s best advice that I have read is - don’t buy more car than you need.

      So many of us buy these massive machines that really are not necessary.  We buy for the “two times a year” we do the family drive cross-country, rather than the 100s of other times we drive somewhere during the year.

      Askel

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #40 on: August 10, 2022, 05:45:57 AM »
      So another thing we've left out- the infrastructure costs involved in having roads to drive our cars on and places to park them.   This video gets into it in some detail. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztHZj6QNlkM

      It's largely a wash, because other than a miniscule gas tax, we all have to pay for that infrastructure regardless of whether we use it or not.  But speaking as somebody who is responsible for maintaining the last 1/4 mile of road infrastructure necessary to get to his house, I can definitely say these costs are not insignificant. 

      Crap, I'm going to be up until 3am tonight googling county road commission and state DOT budgets.   

      soulpatchmike

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #41 on: August 10, 2022, 10:10:26 AM »
      EV owners- 

      I'm definitely intrigued by your numbers. How do you calculate your electricity usage? Is that what the car reports moving itself down the road or what you've seen in your electric bills? 

      I'm curious how to go about calculating how much my electricity meter might spin compared to how much electricity it takes just to make the wheels spin. 

      https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36064484/evs-explained-consumption-versus-efficiency/

      I can add a datapoint here.
      2015 Nissan Leaf S
      Purchase price 8/18 - $9500 + ~$650 tax and title fees
      Current Value ~$7000
      Miles - 41408
      Current Miles - 89824
      Insurance - $3594
      New Tires - $524
      License tabs - $1001
      Accident Deductible - $750
      Electricity - I tracked based on my charger logs and electricity /kWh fee for the first year and the last three are an estimate based on miles against a multiplier of energy used based on the actuals. It changes by month throughout the year as the car is much less efficient per mile in the winter.  We rarely charge away from home, but when we do it is free at the Nissan dealer. - $1775
      Wipers - 2 replacements - $42
      Depreciation - $2500
      Tax - $650
      Total cost - $10836
      48 months ownership - $225.75/mo total cost of ownership
      48416 miles - $0.22 per mile
      Comparing to a gas vehicle it is $0.0366/mile to charge at home or the equivalent of 3.66/gallon of gas, about 100mpg.

      KarefulKactus15

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #42 on: August 27, 2022, 08:17:16 AM »
      Seems like the real winners are cars purchased past their 50% depreciation with high gas mileage.

      A free f250 still has staggering gas cost compared to anything that rocks 40+ mpg.

      I'm watching the Ford Maverick truck hybrid as a potential upgrade for my business work vehicle.  It's too early to say but it looks like it could produce a long service life at low cost once they hit the used market.

      BikeLover

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #43 on: August 27, 2022, 09:32:18 AM »
      2004 Kia Picanto, purchased 2016. In Austria
      Purchase: €1000
      Fees: €1000 (registration upon purchase and move, Autobahn ticket, yearly inspection)
      Maintenance: €3200 (tires, brakes)
      Gas: €1400
      Insurance: €4000
      So total of around €1800 per year, at the current exchange rate more less $1800 per year.

      But I don't drive that much, about 3000 km or 1900 miles per year, which comes out to €0.58 per kilometer or €0,94 per mile. Not cheap, but if I had made all the same trips, renting would have been even more expensive. Probably I would have foregone some trips if I didn't have my own car, it's a luxury I allow myself.

      ChpBstrd

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #44 on: August 27, 2022, 12:20:13 PM »
      Seems like the real winners are cars purchased past their 50% depreciation with high gas mileage.

      A free f250 still has staggering gas cost compared to anything that rocks 40+ mpg.

      I'm watching the Ford Maverick truck hybrid as a potential upgrade for my business work vehicle.  It's too early to say but it looks like it could produce a long service life at low cost once they hit the used market.

      I too was interested in the Maverick as an economical truck, but then the stories started to accumulate about them blowing their engines and catching on fire. A recall is in place:

      Quote
      the problem was traced back to engine failures involving engine block or oil pan breaches. This would allow oil and gas to leak out of the engine and pool near hot surfaces in the engine bay, most relevantly the exhaust system, which could cause the fluids to ignite.

      So basically the almost-new engine throws a rod which then bashes through the side or bottom of the engine. This is an issue where you have to replace the entire engine block at a cost of thousands of dollars. This should not happen on an almost-new vehicle, as all Mavericks are, and can only be caused by defective design or workmanship. Ford's remedy for the situation raises my eyebrows:

      Quote
      The solution it has found is to drill additional drain holes in the under engine shield and to remove four blinds from the Active Grille Shutter, which can make the problem worse by not allowing air to flow through the engine bay and wick away fuel vapors. Oddly, there is no information in this recall about fixing the engine and oil pan breaches.


      So the solution is to drill drain holes so that when your engine blows the oil can drain down onto the street? It sounds like the stopgap idea of putting a metal shield around the gas tanks on Pintos. This sort of thing must be why they dropped the old "quality is job one" motto.

      Cassie

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      Re: Adding up my total cost of car ownership...
      « Reply #45 on: August 27, 2022, 12:31:22 PM »
      I have looked at if it’s cheaper to take Uber then drive my car and it’s not. I have a 2008 Toyota Corolla and I drive 4K/miles a year. It’s only needed routine maintenance and tires and brakes. I use one tank of gas a month. Yearly registration is 65 and my car insurance is 73/month.

       

      Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!