Engineering Price

[accolay]

Just wondering if my bill is reasonable.

I had an engineer come look at a property basement to suggest corrections. $250 an hour. He spent about an hour inspecting and measuring. They wrote a report with suggested corrections and pictures. I've been billed for 5 hours, so $1250. I understand it took time to do calculations, come up with the plan and write the report...but 5 hours? over half a regular work day for my project

The correction is that we decided to build a 2x6 stud wall underneath beams and to support a joist, and to sister in new wood to the rotted, cracked and knotted existing joists.

I assumed the bill would have been $500-750.

I know there are engineers on here. What say you?

[Bucksandreds]

Just wondering if my bill is reasonable.

I had an engineer come look at a property basement to suggest corrections. $250 an hour. He spent about an hour inspecting and measuring. They wrote a report with suggested corrections and pictures. I've been billed for 5 hours, so $1250. I understand it took time to do calculations, come up with the plan and write the report...but 5 hours? over half a regular work day for my project

The correction is that we decided to build a 2x6 stud wall underneath beams and to support a joist, and to sister in new wood to the rotted, cracked and knotted existing joists.

I assumed the bill would have been $500-750.

I know there are engineers on here. What say you?

My experience in life is that when you get charged per hour the "work" takes much longer to do than when you get charged by project. I refuse to hire someone without a fairly firm understanding of total charge. 

[trollwithamustache]

This sounds about right. As an engineering I can say you really shouldn't call us for anything you don't really  need us for.

for your money you got: A bunch of calculations done to the building code (not just the contractor using the proscriptive table) which saved you some amount of material.  It probably didn't save labor because engineers tend to be good at optimizing material and not labor. You also got the all mighty stamped report, which means this guy has insurance and liability if his design doesn't work. But it also got you a stamped report that if a local inspector wants to hassle you, you can hide behind engineering.

I also gotta say at least on the industrial side, if I do the work and give you a solution, people balk at a couple grand fee. If I do the work and give you a fancy report, a 10k invoice flies through no problem.  Its even better if you can attach a couple full sized drawings, those always intimidate and justify billings.

And as Bucks suggests, this kind of stuff can always be done lump-sum.

[Fishindude]

I think the bill is fair.
I also think you called an engineer for something you probably didn't need to call an engineer for.  Any competent construction professional could have figured out a solution without that expense.

[Spork]

I paid a structural engineer to inspect my foundation twice...  Once around 1995 and once again around 2005.  It was the same guy both times.  Much like the OP describes, he did an hour or two worth of measurement and some unknown amount of time generating a very detailed report.  In 1995 the report suggested no action.  In 2005, there was a very detailed report and action plan with pier placement of 30+ piers and lift heights.

Both reports were around $500.  I wasn't paying by the hour -- the price was given to me up front.  I absolutely thought the prices were fair.  If you run that through an inflation calculator, it's about $650 in today's dollars.

[Guesl982374]

Take this experience as a lesson: Always get a firm price for work. If you can't but really need to use that specific guy/company, then get an estimate of the time needed and negotiate your 'Not To Exceed' (NTE) budget for the work.

[trollwithamustache]

I paid a structural engineer to inspect my foundation twice...  Once around 1995 and once again around 2005.  It was the same guy both times.  Much like the OP describes, he did an hour or two worth of measurement and some unknown amount of time generating a very detailed report.  In 1995 the report suggested no action.  In 2005, there was a very detailed report and action plan with pier placement of 30+ piers and lift heights.

Both reports were around $500.  I wasn't paying by the hour -- the price was given to me up front.  I absolutely thought the prices were fair.  If you run that through an inflation calculator, it's about $650 in today's dollars.

This sounds about right, depending on your state, ground motion is now required in the building code so previous foundations that wouldn't pass end up needing lots of piers. Depending on your state ground motion loads have gone up substantially.  Seismic went from not governing case to now 2x the loads of the old governing case type of changes.  Yes despite failing evaluation, somehow the structure didn't fall down and spontaneously combust at the same time. I am not saying the building code is or is not too conservative in some cases. But your man with the engineering stamp must follow current building code.

Of course you can always do nothing since the structure is already there and this may be the wisest course of action. 

For ~500 you get a quick review and not a lot of design analysis cycles.  A pier retrofit is the kind of thing were the engineer can earn his fee if for a few thousand $ in analysis he can remove a few 10ks in piers.  In residential construction I suspect this often isn't the case since the total size of the structure portion just isn't that many dollars.  For apartment buildings and commercial structures its a very different animal.

[Spork]

I paid a structural engineer to inspect my foundation twice...  Once around 1995 and once again around 2005.  It was the same guy both times.  Much like the OP describes, he did an hour or two worth of measurement and some unknown amount of time generating a very detailed report.  In 1995 the report suggested no action.  In 2005, there was a very detailed report and action plan with pier placement of 30+ piers and lift heights.

Both reports were around $500.  I wasn't paying by the hour -- the price was given to me up front.  I absolutely thought the prices were fair.  If you run that through an inflation calculator, it's about $650 in today's dollars.

This sounds about right, depending on your state, ground motion is now required in the building code so previous foundations that wouldn't pass end up needing lots of piers. Depending on your state ground motion loads have gone up substantially.  Seismic went from not governing case to now 2x the loads of the old governing case type of changes.  Yes despite failing evaluation, somehow the structure didn't fall down and spontaneously combust at the same time. I am not saying the building code is or is not too conservative in some cases. But your man with the engineering stamp must follow current building code.

Of course you can always do nothing since the structure is already there and this may be the wisest course of action. 

For ~500 you get a quick review and not a lot of design analysis cycles.  A pier retrofit is the kind of thing were the engineer can earn his fee if for a few thousand $ in analysis he can remove a few 10ks in piers.  In residential construction I suspect this often isn't the case since the total size of the structure portion just isn't that many dollars.  For apartment buildings and commercial structures its a very different animal.

 

This was damage done over time through a combination of badly laid plumbing/slab foundation and expansive soils.  (I.e, not seismic.)    I was glad we used the same guy and we had a known baseline, so we could see how much things changed over 10 years.

And: things were getting bad enough that "do nothing" wasn't an option.   If left as it was (kitchen sink/laundry drain leaking under foundation)... it would tear itself apart.  We were also about to sell it, so it made sense to repair it (and then fix the fallout the repair destroyed).

I failed to mention in the quoted post:  When we did repair it, the engineer came and re-measured and created a post-fix report for either free or almost nothing.  I believe he also did a couple of unannounced spot checks on the repair crew to verify their work.

[sisto]

I paid a structural engineer to inspect my foundation twice...  Once around 1995 and once again around 2005.  It was the same guy both times.  Much like the OP describes, he did an hour or two worth of measurement and some unknown amount of time generating a very detailed report.  In 1995 the report suggested no action.  In 2005, there was a very detailed report and action plan with pier placement of 30+ piers and lift heights.

Both reports were around $500.  I wasn't paying by the hour -- the price was given to me up front.  I absolutely thought the prices were fair.  If you run that through an inflation calculator, it's about $650 in today's dollars.

I had a similar experience in that I own a Condo and it's an upstairs only loft style unit with a balcony. That balcony/deck was in need of repair and the HOA requires an architecture firm to inspect it a various stages and as part of it they also provide a detailed set of plans. The deck is cantilever and the joists are part of the main floor so it was important the the repairs are done right. It cost me I believe $465 for the consultation and the plans and the HOA paid for the other inspections that were needed so I'm not sure the total cost, but I believe the architect told me roughly $100 each time he came out.
This sounds about right, depending on your state, ground motion is now required in the building code so previous foundations that wouldn't pass end up needing lots of piers. Depending on your state ground motion loads have gone up substantially.  Seismic went from not governing case to now 2x the loads of the old governing case type of changes.  Yes despite failing evaluation, somehow the structure didn't fall down and spontaneously combust at the same time. I am not saying the building code is or is not too conservative in some cases. But your man with the engineering stamp must follow current building code.

Of course you can always do nothing since the structure is already there and this may be the wisest course of action. 

For ~500 you get a quick review and not a lot of design analysis cycles.  A pier retrofit is the kind of thing were the engineer can earn his fee if for a few thousand $ in analysis he can remove a few 10ks in piers.  In residential construction I suspect this often isn't the case since the total size of the structure portion just isn't that many dollars.  For apartment buildings and commercial structures its a very different animal.

 

This was damage done over time through a combination of badly laid plumbing/slab foundation and expansive soils.  (I.e, not seismic.)    I was glad we used the same guy and we had a known baseline, so we could see how much things changed over 10 years.

And: things were getting bad enough that "do nothing" wasn't an option.   If left as it was (kitchen sink/laundry drain leaking under foundation)... it would tear itself apart.  We were also about to sell it, so it made sense to repair it (and then fix the fallout the repair destroyed).

I failed to mention in the quoted post:  When we did repair it, the engineer came and re-measured and created a post-fix report for either free or almost nothing.  I believe he also did a couple of unannounced spot checks on the repair crew to verify their work.

[accolay]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Absolutely lesson learned.

I also think you called an engineer for something you probably didn't need to call an engineer for.  Any competent construction professional could have figured out a solution without that expense.

Au contraire, mon frère. An assessor spied a cracked joist and shit his pants. The bank wanted a solution via engineer.

The assessor didn't mention the two joists cut in half below the bathtub made by plumbers 100 years ago. (one was held up with a 2x4 cut to length, not even nailed in-only free standing.) I already sistered in new joists there.

[ImCheap]

Not sure what part of the country you are in......but......$250/hour seems a tad high, on the other hand most engineers will want a minimum. We do our best to help out our local single family residents when something like what you described comes up, we also would never do it hourly, would shoot a fixed fee.  We are in a mid sized city in the Midwest for reference.

[MMMarbleheader]

Did you get a pe stamp out of it? That is an automatic $1000. He probably added the $250 for the site visiT.

[accolay]

Did you get a pe stamp out of it? That is an automatic $1000. He probably added the $250 for the site visiT.

Word?

Perhaps in your area, but I had another PE-cum-stamp do an inspection two years ago for $300. Another reason why I was wondering about the new bill. Maybe because the old PE report didn't have fancy pictures?

[MayDay]

Did you get a pe stamp out of it? That is an automatic $1000. He probably added the $250 for the site visiT.

I laughed out loud.

[MMMarbleheader]

Hah I guess my read pretty funny

I am a construction estimator and if a specification requires a pe stamp for design assist I usually carry between $1k and $3k depending on the level of design needed. This is in Massachusetts. You need to remember that labor is the only way design engineers make any money, much like lawyers.

[BigEasy]

Mechanical engineer here...Since my retirement from Mega Corp, my consulting fee is $125/Hour with an (8) hour minimum. The engineering company I consult for charges the client $195/Hour.

[The Gecko]

5 Hours for a report is not out of bounds (and maybe a little light).

His hourly fee appears high though for residential. Seems like it is more of an industrial/commercial type of rate, but a lot of firms have a single fee structure so you take it or leave it. especially if they are busy at the moment.