A MMM Post Over On the Early Retirement Forum

[bluecollarmusician]

One other thought- while it is interesting to see their actual dollar figures it is essentially meaningless... since costs vary so much around the country and world.


When we lived in GA our total housing costs were (property tax/utilities/home maint) ran under $1000/year
Since we moved to VA housing costs are more like 10k

We haven't changed our actual lifestyle, and fairly luxurious living accommodations by our opinion both places.

[Sparkie]

Regarding the $25k pa spending, I find ER-org weird. They love nothing more than to post about how their portfolio has increased this year and how great things are, and a corresponding increase in spending that year.

But if MMM continues to increase is wealth (through the blog or whatever), he is expected to maintain the original $25 k spend or else he's not genuine. 

I find the vibe of ER-org to be one of 'we retired 5 years earlier than most, at 59, so we bucked the system'. As a whole, the site comes across as resentful to anyone who dares to get out 20 years early.

[Jon_Snow]

It's possible that part of the scorn that MMM gets from "over there" is that perhaps some members are having thoughts that they could have retired at 50 instead of 60 if they had adopted even a few of MMM basic principles. Maybe a bit of remorse they feel at this missed opportunity may be manifesting in a bit of veiled hostility towards MMM. I've seen weirder things manifest themselves in forums...I know that I keep it pretty quiet over there that it was a Mustachian lifestyle that allowed me to save enough in ten years to never have to work again in my early 40's.

But really, I'm just spitballin' here... :)

[dd564]

Hi,

I post a little in both forums.
This feels like a younger crowd, but the picture I'm painting for my lifestyle in retirement matches the ER site.

There seems to be a difference in perspective on costs and values of things.

[expatartist]

Great ideas on this thread! The concerns expressed about small staches are well put, thanks. Though in my field we never really 'retire' per se, my stache will be a small one, and depending on where we live my employment options may be limited, or local compensation wouldn't make working worthwhile. So this is something to keep in mind as I build the stache.

Re. cost of living, that is such a huge factor for any retirement plan. Over the past decade we've lived in a handful of countries. Monthly expenses including housing have ranged from US$350 (Cambodia) to $500 (Bangkok) to $1000 (Hong Kong) but could easily be triple that, depending on how we live.

Edited to add: figures quoted are per person.

[Cheddar Stacker]

It seems that they are (in general) more main stream overall in their thinking and just can't grasp the more stoic yet enjoyable MMM lifestyle. That the idea of giving up certain luxuries (or what mustachians would consider luxuries) in order to save more and retire early on less just isn't an appealing or worthwhile way to live your life. Coupled also with the main stream belief that a person who chooses to live on a small retirement income of $25K or less can't possibly have a million or more in net worth.

MMM=Stoic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism
ER.org=Hedonic.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic

Maybe? I spent a bit of time over there today after I saw this thread. Not sure if it fits, but it matches your description above anyway.

[sheepstache]

It seems that they are (in general) more main stream overall in their thinking and just can't grasp the more stoic yet enjoyable MMM lifestyle. That the idea of giving up certain luxuries (or what mustachians would consider luxuries) in order to save more and retire early on less just isn't an appealing or worthwhile way to live your life. Coupled also with the main stream belief that a person who chooses to live on a small retirement income of $25K or less can't possibly have a million or more in net worth.

MMM=Stoic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism
ER.org=Hedonic.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic

Maybe? I spent a bit of time over there today after I saw this thread. Not sure if it fits, but it matches your description above anyway.

Perhaps they're more Epicurean.

[Cheddar Stacker]

It seems that they are (in general) more main stream overall in their thinking and just can't grasp the more stoic yet enjoyable MMM lifestyle. That the idea of giving up certain luxuries (or what mustachians would consider luxuries) in order to save more and retire early on less just isn't an appealing or worthwhile way to live your life. Coupled also with the main stream belief that a person who chooses to live on a small retirement income of $25K or less can't possibly have a million or more in net worth.

MMM=Stoic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism
ER.org=Hedonic.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic

Maybe? I spent a bit of time over there today after I saw this thread. Not sure if it fits, but it matches your description above anyway.

Perhaps they're more Epicurean.

Sure. That would explain the rivalry.

[Tortoise Banker]

They are not quite as snobby as bogleheads (where you need $5,000,000 for a pauper type retirement with only one Tesla per spouse).

Yes, but the reason they need $5,000,000 to retire on is because they invest 90% in bonds ("Anything more in equities would carry too much risk.") and believe a 1.5% SWR is all a retirement portfolio could support going forward. Lest they fall short and end up "Eating cat food." (a Boglehead's favorite nightmare scenario).

I've participated in the Boglehead forums for over 3 years and never once saw a portfolio recommendation or one in use consisting of 90% bonds/10% equities.  I do agree that cat food is a boglehead favorite, however.

[Roland of Gilead]

I've participated in the Boglehead forums for over 3 years and never once saw a portfolio recommendation or one in use consisting of 90% bonds/10% equities.  I do agree that cat food is a boglehead favorite, however.

Of course I was somewhat joking, but you should search for the threads on "100% TIPS".   TIPS are just bonds with an inflation adjustment.

[Cassie]

I agree with Spartana that they are  not jealous but want a more luxurious retirement & are willing to work longer for it like my hubby & I.  Not many over there have retired anywhere near as young as on this board.  I find value in both boards.  I have been frugal my entire life & now at age 60 we are traveling, eating out more, having more experiences, entertainment, etc then we ever did.  I feel like this is the time to enjoy ourselves while we both have our health. I know from watching others that your desire to travel wanes as you age.  My adult kids are very frugal & travel internationally on a shoestring.  Totally different from me & I would not want to travel that way. Everyone has to do it the way that feels the best.