80k renovation or??

[texastumbleweed]

So we live in a 1200 sq house with a really terrible layout, two bedrooms and one huge bathroom.  3 kids under 8 in tiny bedroom.  The oldest is begging for their own room as their shared bedroom is super tiny.  We have about 80K cash we could spend. We are looking into these options:

1. build on extra bathroom and two bedrooms (their bedroom would become my office as I currently work out of my bedroom) for an estimated 150k

 2. Turn big bathroom into third bedroom and walk in closet would become only bathroom for estimated 50k

3. trade bedrooms with us.  we have a big bedroom that would fit them all much better, but half of our bedroom is used as office storage etc space for me and there is literally no where else in the house for me to go if we swapped.  plus it wouldn't give oldest privacy, just more room.

I love the idea of spending less, but it doesn't solve only having one bathroom (husband and I both work at home (he in converted garage and he has co-workers and we all use bathroom so a second would be nice) and the bedroom two would share is still super small (as in you can barely walk around the bed)

The first option makes more sense in terms of solving problems, but our house is paid off and I'm not super excited about taking out a loan as I never have before (we paid cash for house).  Moving isn't an option at this point as we love our location, it is paid off worth about $650k, and to buy something comparable anywhere nearby would be in the 900k plus range ($1.2 if I'm realistic)

Any suggestions and thoughts about which sounds best would be really helpful.

[terran]

What about buying a bigger house? How does the $150k you're thinking about spending plus what you could realistically sell your house for after transaction costs compare to other houses you could buy that would fit your needs better?

[TheAnonOne]

What about buying a bigger house? How does the $150k you're thinking about spending plus what you could realistically sell your house for after transaction costs compare to other houses you could buy that would fit your needs better?

Yeah, why is moving not an option. $150k up in house price will net you some decent upgrades AND you'll likely get that value into equity.

Renovations are unlikely to even 'break even'

[J Boogie]

It's tough to say without seeing a blueprint or any photos, but here's my take.

I think you could put off a major renovation by moving your office into the converted garage along with your husband. You can fit all of the kids in the big bedroom now.

If the bedroom is big enough, you could install a nice partition screen (maybe an obscured glass panel) to give your oldest some privacy.

If your big bathroom is situated appropriately, you could split it up and turn it into one full or 3/4 bath on one side and a powder room on the other side. The cost of extending the plumbing and tying onto existing might not be so bad.

These are just a few creative options but honestly probably won't work unless your floor plan allows for it.

You're probably just best off building a master bed and bath extension.

[bacchi]

Can your 2nd bathroom be behind the current bathroom? Moving a bathroom sounds needlessly expensive because you'll have to move the pipes.

Or can it go behind the kitchen? Or maybe just put a sink+mirror in the new, 3rd, bedroom like you find in some hotels with a door attaching to the current bathroom.

Can you build one of those stand alone pods for your office? Kinda like what MMM built (or...dragoncar?). Throw in some really good insulation, some solar panels, and you're set.

[partgypsy]

There are probably more solutions than the ones that you are thinking of though it's hard to know without looking at layout.

Definitely do a cost analysis of moving with extra cash, versus staying and upgrading. Though moving is a pain so I would add at 5-8K in costs to moving.

Moving bathrooms are expensive. However changing the layout in a large bathroom (so pipes below-hand don't need to be moved might be more cost effective. Would changing 1 large bathroom into one full bathroom plus half bath be possible in the space. Or not or you need 2 full baths? 

Price out the other options: 2 rooms, 1 room plus one bath, in addition to the 2 rooms and bath addition. I know you don't want to build on and have a mortgage, but to me 2 adults and 3 growing children in 1200 square feet sounds tight. Honestly the investment in additional rooms and bathroom might make the most sense, especially if you can fix some of the layout issues.   

 

[Cranky]

How old are your kids? What are your long term plans? What size are the bedrooms?

I think you could make it work without adding on, but renovating to a 3/2 does add substantial value.

[Fishindude]

I don't think it's a crazy idea, particularly if you really like where you live, like the neighbors, the neighborhood, etc.
The amount you will be borrowing is pretty small, so chances are you can pay it off rather quickly.

One word of advice on additions.   Spend the $$ to get it done properly so that it doesn't look like an addition or "after thought".  If the house is brick, the addition should be brick, you may have to re-roof the entire house to make it look seamless, etc.   If it looks like an obvious addition, it will devalue your home.

[Just Joe]

How close are the kids to moving out on their own? Considering the value of the house, $80K might be a drip in the bucket for your area.

[mm1970]

So, I kind of feel you here.

We have a house that is 2BR, 1BA and <1200 sf.  Two kids (12 and 6).  One big bedroom, one tiny bedroom.

Gosh, I would like a second bathroom.  But the costs for construction are through the roof right now, so I'm estimating at least $80k to add another bathroom.

Similarly - our house is worth about $875k, and if we wanted a bigger house that would be about $950k.  Simply the selling costs are close to $60,000 on that transaction AND then you are looking at $10k per year property taxes. 

We are entering the age of maximum cramping.  And yes I'd love another bathroom and I'm not ruling it out.  We may just hire someone to tell us if it is possible.

BUT here's what we did.  We swapped bedrooms with the kids.  We gave them the big room.  It has the bunk beds and a desk.  They get "privacy" in fits and starts - nobody has their own room, but one of them can be playing in there and the other in the living room.

Our computer desk is in the living room, and when we work from  home, it's at the kitchen table when the kids are in school.

Our bedroom is tiny - it fits the bed with about 1.5-2 feet all around it.  But I figure all we do in there is sleep.

As I really don't want to upgrade and get a new big mortgage at our ages (50 and 48), we are just figuring on how to squeeze.

Anyway, TLDR: I'd look into adding on.  I don't think $80k is a big deal.  I'd do it for that.

[Glenstache]

What about an ADU in the back yard, if possible? That could convert to a revenue stream after the kids have grown up and out, provided that is something you are interested in.

[terran]

What about an ADU in the back yard, if possible? That could convert to a revenue stream after the kids have grown up and out, provided that is something you are interested in.

There's another thought. Here's how to build a backyard office: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/01/24/diy-studio-building/ and/or http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2018/06/30/tinyhouse/

[Cgbg]

Can the walk in closet from the master bedroom easily be turned into half or full bath accessible from a common hallway? If so, I’d consider that option along with switching the kids to the big bedroom. They don’t need a walk in closet. Room dividers should work fine.

[cloudsail]

Also get more estimates, contractors can vary widely in prices. Find someone who only charges for labor, and materials are either paid for separately or purchased by you. We recently finished our basement, including adding a bathroom, plumbing, concrete work, etc, for approximately $50k. Other contractors that bundled labor and materials were estimating around $100k.

[AMandM]

Could you switch bedrooms with the kids, then close off part of the huge bathroom to make a little office for you?  You might have to store your work materials elsewhere (the master walk-in closet?).  Depending on the layout and on what you do in your office, that might not be feasible, I realize, but it would be way cheaper.

As to privacy, we had five girls in the 17'x17' master bedroom of our previous house (at their request). Each had a loft bed, with her private space and storage below. The individual zones were delineated by bookcases and by curtains hung from the ceiling. Theoretically those could be drawn open for joint activities.

[life_travel]

Just wanted to say that growing up I was always sharing a room with my two younger sisters until I moved out at 17. It was a huge bedroom and while my bed was close to their bunks , my desk was in a corner of the room , with huge bookcase / cabinet between desk and bed space . It was fine .
I didn't realise people had their own bedrooms back then :)

[wageslave23]

Figure out how much your house would be worth if you did option one.  If it increases the value of your house more than the cost, then do option 1.

[Dragonswan]

I vote for adding a new master suite.  Then you can give the two youngest your old bedroom and the oldest gets the smaller bedroom all him/herself.  You could play musical bedrooms for a few more years, but once they're teenagers, you will wish you had expanded.  Adding square footage is almost always profitable, and master suites are all the rage so you would get your money back when/if you sell.  You can design it exactly to meet your needs - bathroom, roomy closet and office space.

[tralfamadorian]

1200 sqft should fit a 3/2 fine without an addition. Anyway we could see an approximate floor plan? Also- 1 story? Slab, crawlspace or basement?

[Adam Zapple]

Option 3 with a small office in the backyard sounds nice to me.  Even without the backyard office, my guess is you could figure out a way to make some office space somewhere.  It is a no-cost solution that could be reversed or changed if it doesn't work out.  I agree with others that you need to do a real financial analysis as well as a "disruption of life" analysis comparing the two options.  For me, an addition off the back or side of the house is more bearable than building above existing living space.  If it can be closed off from the main house while work is going on it is tolerable.  Living through a construction project that greatly affects your existing living space with 3 kids is going to be extremely stressful so take that into consideration.

Financially, my guess would be that the addition will net you about 75% of the total cost of the renovation when you go to sell.  This is totally back-of-napkin guessing but probably realistic in a majority of markets.  Those HGTV shows that make it seem like all work you do to your house is always worth more than what you paid for it are total B.S.  You can look at zillow for recently sold homes in your area that are comparable to what your house will become to get an idea.  That's if you can find reasonable comps.

As far as choosing a contractor goes, find one that has experience with several additions similar to yours and can give you several references.  The low-budget guy is not always best.  The couple thousand you may save will mean nothing if you are not happy with the final result.  The overall cost of the project is what matters, not whether or not they charge for materials etc.  Also, what the contractor says to you means nothing if it is NOT IN THE CONTRACT!  Can't stress this enough.  I worked in the construction field for 10 years.

[soccerluvof4]

I agree with @WageSlave . If you really like your lot, location etc,,, and the house is paid for And you break even or better yet come out ahead with the addition. Just as others suggested make sure it doesnt look like an addition so do it right. Also consider your property tax increase if applicable. Moving does suck and any house to buy there will be something you wont like or thats not perfect and chances are you will have to make changes to that as well. So if the numbers work stay where your at but do it right and do the math.

[Aelias]

I'll add another vote for, at a minimum, switch bedrooms with the kids.  We have two bedrooms in the upstairs of our house, and we sleep in the smaller, weirder shaped one and gave the kids the big one.  Awesome decision--we use the spaces differently.  We just sleep and store clothes in our room (well, mostly ;) ).  They actually play in theirs, so they need the space.

Going forward, I think lofted beds are a good solution that give older kids a reasonable amount of privacy (after all, that's what I had in a college dorm).  I also think this expectation that older kids "need" their own room is a very new one.  To give an extreme example, my MIL was one of 14 kids in a rural, working class family.  Suffice it to say, no one got their own room unless they moved out.

That being said, we're considering a potential addition on our home as well.   We have a cape with one dormer on the second floor and we're considering popping out the other dormer to give us another bedroom and more easily accessible storage space. The considerations are as follows:
Pros:
-extra space, as we're expecting to have at least 3 and maybe 4 kids.  This means 2 kids per room, and we take the current guest bedroom downstairs.
-There's a non-zero chance that at least 1 of our 4 living parents may want / need to move in with us at some point.  More space makes this more of a possibility.
-The housing and rental market in our area is red hot and will likely stay strong over time as there's a university nearby and a lot people who can't afford to buy.  We have no itention to sell, but if we wanted to downsize and rent this one out, we'd get a very decent monthly rent.


Cons:

-I'm thinking at least $50K to do it right
-Life disruption.  This is the big one for me.  We'd basically all have to sleep in the basement for a summer while they worked on the upstairs