Author Topic: 2023 Chevy Bolt  (Read 738 times)

UltraStache

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2023 Chevy Bolt
« on: November 23, 2022, 01:01:00 PM »
Hey everyone.  I thought I'd start a thread about this vehicle for a few reasons:

1) Chevy Bolt is currently(prior to 1/1/2023) not eligible for any federal tax credit.
2) When the IRA goes into effect 1/1/2023, the Chevy Bolt *may* be eligible for partial federal tax credit of $3750.
3) With current base price of $28,035 when equipped with the optional heated seats and steering wheel(an almost necessity for cold weather driving/range), the partial tax credit brings the cost down to $24,285.  I'm not aware of any fairly new car(even 1-3 years old) that is a better value than this, especially when factoring in lower maintenance and energy costs.

I'm researching a car to buy in January and this is on the top of my list.   I don't need one until March at the earliest but don't want to be stuck without when the need arises in case of inventory delays.  So I'd like to pull the trigger first week of January.

I've ruled out the Leaf because I think the charging is even worse than the Bolt and range is a bit lower.  Every mile counts IMO on these cars that have barely adequate range as is other than local commuting.

I've ruled out Tesla since their cheapest option is $40,690 *after* the full $7500 tax credit.  The Bolt actually has longer real world tested range.  $17k is WAY too big of a spread for a car that has less range.

JLee

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2022, 01:59:11 PM »
Having owned both, a Model 3 and a Bolt aren't in the same league - there's more to the price difference than the range alone.  That said, a new Bolt at MSRP with a tax credit is an utter bargain.

bacchi

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2022, 02:06:18 PM »
We're also looking at the Bolt or possibly a used Volt, which should be eligible for the used car tax credit.

It's too bad the Prius will no longer be eligible. The 2023 is a much better looking car compared to previous years and the EV range is enough for us around town.

Paper Chaser

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2022, 02:13:08 PM »
Bolts seem like a terrific deal. I've read more than a couple of complaints about seat comfort, so be sure to sit in one for awhile before buying if you can. Also, the max charge rate is slower than many new EVs which can make long distance trips more time consuming if/when you make those. As long as you're aware of those potential drawbacks, I'd say they're likely to be a great car for a long time for those who own them.

RedmondStash

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2022, 02:31:46 PM »
The Bolt is one EV I have my eye on for the future, as is the Hyundai Kona EV, which gets consistently good reviews, especially for the price.

Any car will have drawbacks. You just have to figure out which drawbacks affect you and which don't.

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2022, 04:16:41 PM »
Bolts seem like a terrific deal. I've read more than a couple of complaints about seat comfort, so be sure to sit in one for awhile before buying if you can. Also, the max charge rate is slower than many new EVs which can make long distance trips more time consuming if/when you make those. As long as you're aware of those potential drawbacks, I'd say they're likely to be a great car for a long time for those who own them.

Will definitely test drive one first, but what I've read and seen is that the older models weren't great as far as seat comfort, but that the newer ones have made changes and upgraded the seats and are now quite good.

secondcor521

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2022, 06:19:56 PM »
Based on my son's recent experience with the Nissan Leaf and the new IRA tax credit, our prediction is that the price of any vehicle you might buy immediately after 1/1/2023 because of a tax credit will increase in price on 1/1/2023 by nearly the full amount of the credit.

In other words, the dealer takes most of the credit for themselves.

May be different due to the changing landscape with the IRA rules and various cars qualifying etc., but that was what we saw.

Weathering

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2022, 08:34:50 PM »
Why do you think the Bolt will only qualify for half of the IRA rebate on 1/1/2023?

Iím in the market for a Bolt (on 1/1/2023) even considering ordering one now with hopes it gets delivered in January. But, Iím hoping fir the full IRA rebate.

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2022, 05:39:35 AM »
Why do you think the Bolt will only qualify for half of the IRA rebate on 1/1/2023?

Iím in the market for a Bolt (on 1/1/2023) even considering ordering one now with hopes it gets delivered in January. But, Iím hoping fir the full IRA rebate.

It has to do with the requirements for eligibility:

According to a report by Electrek, GM doesnít yet have the capability to meet the full $7,500 tax credit thatís going into effect on January 1st, 2023. As of that date, GM EVs will only qualify for half the credit. GM is currently working to source battery minerals for the Chevy Bolt EV and Chevy Bolt EUV, as well as Ultium batteries, domestically. As the Detroit-based automaker is planning to launch new 30 electric vehicles by 2030, it must take advantage of the tax credit in order to reach more customers.

ďWe think, out of the gate, weíre going to be eligible for the $3,750, and weíll ramp to have full qualification in the next two to three years, getting up to the $7,500.Ē said GM CEO Mary Barra.


https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/10/gm-electric-vehicles-wont-be-eligible-for-the-full-tax-credit-yet/


GilesMM

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2022, 06:54:58 AM »
In favor of the Leaf, it has been in production longer, has more cargo room, gets the full tax credit and isn't made by GM, haha.  Tough decision for sure.  Have you compared prices of used cars?  A five year old Leaf with under $20k miles is about $18k.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 07:55:21 AM by GilesMM »

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2022, 07:06:19 AM »
Another data point I'm looking at if I choose to be a bit more spendy pants.  Fully loaded 2LT trim with radiant red paint upcharge, leather seats, heated seats and steering wheel, premium Bose stereo with subwoofer, adaptive cruise control, etc, i.e. everything, is $31,260 or around $33,500 out the door with taxes, so net of around $30k if eligible for 1/2 the tax credit.  Still a darn good deal for brand new EV with a bit of luxury added in.

I checked 2023 Hyundai Kona pricing...base price is over $41k to get heated steering wheel.  That's really a shame as heated seats and steering wheel are, for me, a basic requirement for EV's.  It allows you to keep the interior cabin temp much cooler and still feel warm, and this will have a significant impact on range and efficiency in cold weather.  Cheapest possible Kona EV is $34,845(plus taxes) so about $37,340 for me.  It does have heated seats but not steering wheel, with is only available on the highest trim.  This puts it $7,000 higher than the top of the line fully loaded Bolt factoring in the tax credit.

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2022, 07:11:44 AM »
If favor of the Leaf, it has been in production longer, has more cargo room, gets the full tax credit and isn't made by GM, haha.  Tough decision for sure.  Have you compared prices of used cars?  A five year old Leaf with under $20k miles is about $18k.

5 year old 150 mile range Leafs are showing around $23,000 as a "great price" within a couple hundred miles of me.  150 mile range is a hard stop for me.  And price is way too high.  The 215 mile range used Leafs are closer to $30k with what I'm seeing.  You must be in a great market for used EV's?

nessness

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2022, 08:11:48 AM »
I have a 2022 Bolt EUV and love it. It's surprisingly roomy inside for how small it looks outside. I find the seats to be comfortable, and I love the heated/cooled seats and heated steering wheel (though using them does decrease the range). The only thing I don't love is the infotainment system, which I find difficult to use, but that's not a huge factor for me.

Home charging is also pretty slow (about 11 miles per hour with a level 2 charger), but that hasn't been much of a problem since I don't drive a ton. I've only used a fast charger once, but it seemed reasonably fast - maybe 40 minutes.

One thing to be aware of is that you might not get one for MSRP. Around here, dealers are still charging markups for pretty much everything, and I've heard there have been tons of people preordering the 2023 Bolts.

bmjohnson35

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2022, 08:43:21 AM »

May I ask why you are focused on electric vehicle purchase?

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2022, 09:11:20 AM »

May I ask why you are focused on electric vehicle purchase?

Certainly! 

1) In the past, my car buying strategy has been purchasing a 3 year old, low mileage car coming off lease for roughly half the price of a new car, and driving for a really long time.  With the current car market, buying a used vehicle no longer makes financial sense as 3 year old cars are still selling at or above new car prices.  Going older to get a bargain used car doesn't make sense to me now either.  Ten year old fuel efficient cars with 100k miles are going for $15k.  This has pushed me into the new car market for the first time.  We currently only have one car but will need a 2nd vehicle possibly as soon as March.  We are traveling healthcare workers so we need good, dependable cars that can dependably travel 100's of miles when changing assignments.  This also rules out a true "beater/clunker" type car. 
2) I like the value proposition offered by a low priced EV such as the Chevy Bolt i.e. the ten year cost to operate the car....no oil changes, no engine maintenance, no brake maintenance costs, no transmission or transmission fluid etc etc etc.
3) I like the cleaner, green energy and lower environmental impact.
4) I'd like to go solar in 2023 which will significantly add to the value of owning an EV, and make solar even more financially beneficial.
5) I love the idea of never paying for energy for the rest of my life i.e. solar power for cars, heating, cooling, electric, cooking, etc.
6) I own one EV and really enjoy how quiet it is, and the convenience of never stopping for gas.  Plugging in a couple times a week is super convenient.
7) I like that I am not helping make oil companies rich.

bmjohnson35

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2022, 09:38:02 AM »

May I ask why you are focused on electric vehicle purchase?

Certainly! 

1) In the past, my car buying strategy has been purchasing a 3 year old, low mileage car coming off lease for roughly half the price of a new car, and driving for a really long time.  With the current car market, buying a used vehicle no longer makes financial sense as 3 year old cars are still selling at or above new car prices.  Going older to get a bargain used car doesn't make sense to me now either.  Ten year old fuel efficient cars with 100k miles are going for $15k.  This has pushed me into the new car market for the first time.  We currently only have one car but will need a 2nd vehicle possibly as soon as March.  We are traveling healthcare workers so we need good, dependable cars that can dependably travel 100's of miles when changing assignments.  This also rules out a true "beater/clunker" type car. 
2) I like the value proposition offered by a low priced EV such as the Chevy Bolt i.e. the ten year cost to operate the car....no oil changes, no engine maintenance, no brake maintenance costs, no transmission or transmission fluid etc etc etc.
3) I like the cleaner, green energy and lower environmental impact.
4) I'd like to go solar in 2023 which will significantly add to the value of owning an EV, and make solar even more financially beneficial.
5) I love the idea of never paying for energy for the rest of my life i.e. solar power for cars, heating, cooling, electric, cooking, etc.
6) I own one EV and really enjoy how quiet it is, and the convenience of never stopping for gas.  Plugging in a couple times a week is super convenient.
7) I like that I am not helping make oil companies rich.

It's helpful understand your thought process. I suspect used car prices will drop significantly by late next year, but it's purely speculation on my part and time may prove me wrong.  The present market is crazy! I'm not sure where you live, but it may not hurt to shop outside your state as well.  It's an additional headache, but sometimes you can save a significant amount by the inconvenience of a road trip. 

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2022, 09:50:01 AM »
I request a pre-order for a 2023 Chevy Bolt with the following options:
2LT trim:               $28,800
Radiant Red paint: $495
Infotainment:        $595
Adaptive CC:         $375
Freight:                 $995
Total:                  $31,260

I'll update with the process.  I'd like to take a look in person and test drive.  The other configuration I need to decide on would be a 1LT with just the heated seats and steering wheel with a total cost of $28,035.  It gives up the red paint, leather seats, premium sound system, and adaptive CC and is the cheapest option I would consider buying.

These are prices before taxes and fees(i.e. doc fee, tags, registration, license etc) and before any tax credits.  I also get $750 state tax credit in PA.

GilesMM

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2022, 10:04:20 AM »
I didnít realize the Bolt had maintenance-free brakes. Do they not wear?

bacchi

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2022, 10:16:50 AM »
I didnít realize the Bolt had maintenance-free brakes. Do they not wear?

They're not maintenance free but regenerative brakes will easily last 120k miles.

Paper Chaser

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2022, 07:26:36 AM »
I didnít realize the Bolt had maintenance-free brakes. Do they not wear?

They're not maintenance free but regenerative brakes will easily last 120k miles.

Technically, regen braking is done in the electric motors of an EV (or PHEV). There are no "regen brakes". Because the motors slow the car, the mechanical friction brakes aren't used as much.

Mechanical brakes are still used to hold the vehicle in stopped position, and for sudden stopping situations. The lack of overall use can actually lead to some issues and maintenance or repairs though. It's not uncommon for brake rotors to get rusty when they're used very little. Caliper slides, etc can lose their lubrication and get stuck when they're not exercised often. When brakes are used predominantly in emergency slowing situations, they're more likely to warp rotors or leave heavy pad deposits which can lead to a shudder when applying the mechanical friction brakes.

I love 1 pedal driving, and always choose the option for heaviest regen braking in my PHEV, but EVs do still need some level of maintenance and repair of their mechanical brakes.

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2022, 07:36:20 AM »
The brakes on my EV get used VERY lightly at least twice a day when parking.  I think this is enough to keep them moving freely but without causing any substantial wear.  I expect to go 100-200k miles before needing pads.  In other words, they won't require the normal routine replacement of pads and rotors like ICE cars do.

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2022, 08:25:09 AM »
The local dealer that I indicated on the order request for my Chevy Bolt contacted me.  They said they require a $500 deposit and it will take 6-8 months for the car to come in.  Nothing I'm seeing is indicating that kind of lead time.  Time for plan B

sonofsven

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2022, 08:49:19 AM »
The local dealer that I indicated on the order request for my Chevy Bolt contacted me.  They said they require a $500 deposit and it will take 6-8 months for the car to come in.  Nothing I'm seeing is indicating that kind of lead time.  Time for plan B
I would keep sending out requests to as many dealers as you can, and when you respond to their initial email lay out exactly what you want. You'll probably have to repeat this over and over, as they don't really listen but rather try to sell you what they have.
Eventually you will (hopefully) find one that will work with you.

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2022, 09:03:06 AM »
They donít have a Bolt in stock, so I donít think there was any ulterior motive. I guess Iíd rather them be conservative/realistic with time frame than take my money, promise a short lead time and not be able to make good.  I poked around online just a little and it does seem like lead times are potentially quite long.

At this point, Iíll probably wait until the last week of the year, find what I want within driving distance and purchase off the lot as long as itís MSRP

Sandi_k

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2022, 09:18:02 AM »
I request a pre-order for a 2023 Chevy Bolt with the following options:
2LT trim:               $28,800
Radiant Red paint: $495
Infotainment:        $595
Adaptive CC:         $375
Freight:                 $995
Total:                  $31,260

I'll update with the process.  I'd like to take a look in person and test drive.  The other configuration I need to decide on would be a 1LT with just the heated seats and steering wheel with a total cost of $28,035.  It gives up the red paint, leather seats, premium sound system, and adaptive CC and is the cheapest option I would consider buying.

These are prices before taxes and fees(i.e. doc fee, tags, registration, license etc) and before any tax credits.  I also get $750 state tax credit in PA.

DH finds that the adaptive CC is his favorite feature. ;)

Have you considered flying out to CA, and then driving one home? CA seems to be the mecca for EVs.

Villanelle

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2022, 10:14:22 AM »
I could challenge you that heated seats and steering wheel are requirements for cold weather living.  I lived in Germany, where we saw highs below freezing occasionally, and never had either. Wear some warm driving gloves if you need to. 

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2022, 10:22:43 AM »
I could challenge you that heated seats and steering wheel are requirements for cold weather living.  I lived in Germany, where we saw highs below freezing occasionally, and never had either. Wear some warm driving gloves if you need to.

These features allow one to get much better real world range in cold weather.  It uses *FAR* less energy to warm the seat and steering wheel than it does to heat the entire cabin to a comfortable temperature.  Warming the hands and body directly in this manner allows for a much lower cabin temp which extends range considerably.  Don't get me wrong, heated seats and steering wheel are very nice in and of themselves, but the main benefit in an EV is extended cold weather range.  Since EV range is *significantly* effected by cold weather, it makes these features quite important.

UltraStache

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #27 on: Today at 07:09:57 AM »
An impressive data point I found on the new Bolt was a 70 mph range test done by Insideevs.  Driving at a constant 70 mph while using A/C, they got 260 miles of range.  In my Kia Niro, my efficiency drops 10-15% when increasing speed from 63-70.  So at 60-65 the Bolt would likely do 300 miles, although this is not *useable* since no one wants to drive until the car dies.  But it means you could get around 250 miles of useable range on a highway trip with plenty of cushion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4iJKNYZ-G8

Paper Chaser

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Re: 2023 Chevy Bolt
« Reply #28 on: Today at 07:39:43 AM »
An impressive data point I found on the new Bolt was a 70 mph range test done by Insideevs.  Driving at a constant 70 mph while using A/C, they got 260 miles of range.  In my Kia Niro, my efficiency drops 10-15% when increasing speed from 63-70.  So at 60-65 the Bolt would likely do 300 miles, although this is not *useable* since no one wants to drive until the car dies.  But it means you could get around 250 miles of useable range on a highway trip with plenty of cushion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4iJKNYZ-G8

Edmunds got 278 miles (7.3% better than EPA rating) in their mixed city/highway range test too:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html#chart