13 Years to FIRE and no motivation

[jfisher3]

I'm in a somewhat unusual position. After 7 years in the military I got out and began receiving disability for injuries sustained. After I got out, I also got a federal job, where my 7 years in the military counts towards a civilian retirement (the time gets added to the years I spent as a federal employee).

Since I can use numbers here and not get treated like some rich asshole... my [tax free] disability is $1800/mo, and will go down to $1500 at about the time I would FIRE and retire from federal service. My federal retirement (not 401k) will also equal about $1500/mo, for a total monthly passive income of $3000. This will comfortably cover all of our living expenses post-retirement. I don't give a shit about being rich, I just want my freedom.

The earliest I can retire as a fed is 15 years. This puts me right at 40 years old, collecting the retirement I listed. While I have every 'intention' of saving as much as I can, at the same time I'm finding it very difficult to stay motivated.

I guess what I'm asking is, what kept y'all motivated to keep saving even when you truly knew you had reached the point that you had 'made it'?

[Andrew928]

I feel in the same boat in terms of motivation

[jprince7827]

Well, trusting the federal government not to screw you is probably a good indicator that you're not making the best decisions. Remember who you're relying on. Save that $ so that even if the Feds decide to drop or decrease pensions, you already have an FU stash.

[jfisher3]

Well, trusting the federal government not to screw you is probably a good indicator that you're not making the best decisions. Remember who you're relying on. Save that $ so that even if the Feds decide to drop or decrease pensions, you already have an FU stash.

Yes.

Holy crap yes. It took me a minute to get over myself and to seriously consider the statement. Pre-caffeine brain said "wtf are you trying to say, I don't make good decisions?". Post caffeine, holy crap you're right. Just last week, the crooks in DC talked about tapping into the Federal 401k program (TSP) like they did social security.

Thanks :)

[randommadness]

The earliest I can retire as a fed is 15 years. This puts me right at 40 years old, collecting the retirement I listed. While I have every 'intention' of saving as much as I can, at the same time I'm finding it very difficult to stay motivated.

I need someone else under FERS to chime in and correct me, but I'm pretty sure you can't collect any FERS pension before 57, unless you fall under an involuntary separation like a BRAC or something, and you're at least age 50 (+20 years service) or have 25 years @ any age.

If you have 30 years, you can take a deferred retirement (stop working after 30 years, but collect immediately at 57)
If you have 20 and are still working at 60 you can collect immediately.
If you have 5+ years and are still working at 62 you can collect immediately.

"If you retire at the MRA with at least 10, but less than 30 years of service, your benefit will be reduced by 5 percent a year for each year you are under 62, unless you have 20 years of service and your benefit starts when you reach age 60 or later."

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/eligibility/

I'm not trying to burst your bubble, maybe you have access to something I don't. Federal Law Enforcement? Fire fighter?

Also, I read this as you did military 18-25, and have been a Fed for 2 years, so you're 27 talking about 13 years to 40. correct?

[randommadness]

I just checked https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/types-of-retirement/#url=Voluntary-Retirement

and as an ATC, FF, LEO, or an MRT you can retire any time with 25 years of service, and at age 50 with only 20 years of service.

[jfisher3]

The earliest I can retire as a fed is 15 years. This puts me right at 40 years old, collecting the retirement I listed. While I have every 'intention' of saving as much as I can, at the same time I'm finding it very difficult to stay motivated.

I need someone else under FERS to chime in and correct me, but I'm pretty sure you can't collect any FERS pension before 57, unless you fall under an involuntary separation like a BRAC or something, and you're at least age 50 (+20 years service) or have 25 years @ any age.

If you have 30 years, you can take a deferred retirement (stop working after 30 years, but collect immediately at 57)
If you have 20 and are still working at 60 you can collect immediately.
If you have 5+ years and are still working at 62 you can collect immediately.

"If you retire at the MRA with at least 10, but less than 30 years of service, your benefit will be reduced by 5 percent a year for each year you are under 62, unless you have 20 years of service and your benefit starts when you reach age 60 or later."

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/eligibility/

I'm not trying to burst your bubble, maybe you have access to something I don't. Federal Law Enforcement? Fire fighter?

Also, I read this as you did military 18-25, and have been a Fed for 2 years, so you're 27 talking about 13 years to 40. correct?

Damn damn damn.

You are correct on all accounts, including age.

Fuck. Here's hoping for a loophole I guess. I reallllllly don't want to work until I'm 50... but that would mean walking away from an even bigger retirement.

[nereo]

Damn damn damn.

You are correct on all accounts, including age.

Fuck. Here's hoping for a loophole I guess. I reallllllly don't want to work until I'm 50... but that would mean walking away from an even bigger retirement.

Sounds like you might be best helped by doing a complete case study.
In short, you have a few options - i) working until you are 50 to get your 'full' retirement (even though it sounds like you might not need all of that), ii) keeping your current position until you have enough savings to retire even without full pension, or iii) moving to the private sector to do something you might enjoy more and would pay you better.

ii) & iii) will necessitate abandoning some or all of your FERS, but there's still good news there - depending on your current financial situation and your earning potential it's certainly possible that you could build a nest egg large enough in > 13 years to retire anyhow without any help from the FERS. 

It sounds like you are budgeting ~$36k/year expenses, but with monthly disability income of $18k, leaving you with an $18k/year 'hole' to fill... that puts you in the $400-500k range to ER.  Saving ~$20k-25k/year should get you there within a decade assuming you have no other savings already.  If you already have substantial savings the picture gets even rosier.  You could also work part time to earn $10-18k/year to 'retire' much sooner... perhaps even this year.

so - what does the rest of your financial situation look like?

[randommadness]

nereo - the issue is that he would have to work until 50 to get the full retirement... at age 57. So there would still be the 7 year gap between work stop and pension.

But I like where you came from with the savings and being able to make it within a decade.

If the OP saves that kind of coin over the next 13 years to make it work, he could then collect the 20 year pension at 62 (or 57 with a 25% [5% deduction per year from 62] reduction), and then also social security.

[randommadness]

I feel your pain JF.

My "worst case" goal is that I do my 30... I'll be 49 turning 50, and take the deferred retirement.

Then at least you can collect with no reduction immediately at age 57, so if the pension was enough to cover most of your lifestyle you could save until then to make up the difference and account for the 7 years from 50 to 57.

You could take the deferred at 48 (with 30 years) to collect immediately at 57. That would leave you with 9 years of no income (or maybe you do something more enjoyable) to account for, with SS available 5 years later.

So if you can stack up your TSP and other investments until then... shrug.

I personally would love to be done by 40, I just don't think I've got the gumption to get it done :P

[fiveoh]

You can still receive "disability" even after getting another decent paying(I assume) job?  Wow. 

[randommadness]

It's military disability, which is different I think from standard disability.

They owned you, they broke you, they owe you.

[jfisher3]

Sounds like you might be best helped by doing a complete case study.
In short, you have a few options - i) working until you are 50 to get your 'full' retirement (even though it sounds like you might not need all of that), ii) keeping your current position until you have enough savings to retire even without full pension, or iii) moving to the private sector to do something you might enjoy more and would pay you better.

ii) & iii) will necessitate abandoning some or all of your FERS, but there's still good news there - depending on your current financial situation and your earning potential it's certainly possible that you could build a nest egg large enough in > 13 years to retire anyhow without any help from the FERS. 

It sounds like you are budgeting ~$36k/year expenses, but with monthly disability income of $18k, leaving you with an $18k/year 'hole' to fill... that puts you in the $400-500k range to ER.  Saving ~$20k-25k/year should get you there within a decade assuming you have no other savings already.  If you already have substantial savings the picture gets even rosier.  You could also work part time to earn $10-18k/year to 'retire' much sooner... perhaps even this year.

so - what does the rest of your financial situation look like?

Current financials aren't nearly as rosy as I would like. Still have some debt, and spending to turn our current house into an income property while moving out to a homestead we're buying... which also needs some minor things and start-up costs for the goats, garden, ducks, etc.

Current combined income is nice enough that we qualify for a second house without renters in the first, and can 'afford' to not have tenants. Wife hopes to finish school next year and move to a medical job that pays a lot better than being a paramedic.

Our savings is minimal ($10k) which is going to pay off a large portion of our debt, once we close on the homestead. Once that kills all of our smaller debt, we're left with about 2 years of moderately aggressive payment to knock it out. Sticking with moderate, because there's a lot that needs start-up money.

Unfortunately, my job is pretty specific. I'm an engineering technician, and my entire adult life/job experience is centered around submarine operation/repair. There aren't too many civilian opportunities that are as 'good' as my current job.


After writing all of this out, I think I might just go start the full case study process. Our debt isn't pretty, with more than a few stupid mistakes... but I'll take the face punches for a clearer picture.

[jfisher3]

You can still receive "disability" even after getting another decent paying(I assume) job?  Wow.

 Military disability, just like randommadness stated. Doesn't prevent me from working, otherwise they'd be paying me about $3500/mo and I'd be enjoying my retirement already :P

I'm broken, but still able to work.

[fiveoh]

It's military disability, which is different I think from standard disability.

They owned you, they broke you, they owe you.

Premise should be the same as SS?  If someone is disabled because of their job(the military here) and can't make money they need help.  If they can work and make money why do they need the help still?(i.e. SS stops paying disability after someone starts making money again)  Don't get me wrong I'm 100% behind disabled Vets and I'm not trying to call out the OP since I dont know his situation.  I just wasn't aware it worked that way. 

Back on topic, unless you really hate your job I'd try to work till 50.  Guaranteed pensions are hard to come by and one of the most secure income streams.

[jfisher3]

It's military disability, which is different I think from standard disability.

They owned you, they broke you, they owe you.

Premise should be the same as SS?  If someone is disabled because of their job(the military here) and can't make money they need help.  If they can work and make money why do they need the help still?(i.e. SS stops paying disability after someone starts making money again)  Don't get me wrong I'm 100% behind disabled Vets and I'm not trying to call out the OP since I dont know his situation.  I just wasn't aware it worked that way. 

Back on topic, unless you really hate your job I'd try to work till 50.  Guaranteed pensions are hard to come by and one of the most secure income streams.

I'm not sure there's an easy way to explain this. Stating that it's because there is a higher chance of injury in the military and it's just another benefit would be simplifying it too much.

We didn't just do a job. So we don't get 'just' disability. That's kind of it, but not really.

I'm 27, I have trouble walking because my knees and ankles were abused to all hell, I can only sleep 2-3 hours a night due to physical and psychological trauma from 7 years at a job that I started when I was 18. I have social anxiety from large groups of people and trying to watch and see who is going to blow up/pull a gun.

You could be a CPA for 30 years and you might have arthritis in your wrists... which, oh I have that too.

I'm not saying this in an angry tone, I'm not upset. I'm just trying to impress upon you the reason there are different benefits than a civilian would get.

[jfisher3]

Back on topic, unless you really hate your job I'd try to work till 50.  Guaranteed pensions are hard to come by and one of the most secure income streams.

That's a very valid point. Waiting until 50 would put that monthly payout a lot higher than $1500 too. FERS pays roughly 1% of your highest 3 years of employment per year of employment. So, the difference between 20 and 30 years at the job would be 10%, of what would be assumed to be a much higher paid 3 years, considering the 10 more years of employment.

[fattest_foot]

The earliest I can retire as a fed is 15 years. This puts me right at 40 years old, collecting the retirement I listed. While I have every 'intention' of saving as much as I can, at the same time I'm finding it very difficult to stay motivated.

I need someone else under FERS to chime in and correct me, but I'm pretty sure you can't collect any FERS pension before 57, unless you fall under an involuntary separation like a BRAC or something, and you're at least age 50 (+20 years service) or have 25 years @ any age.

If you have 30 years, you can take a deferred retirement (stop working after 30 years, but collect immediately at 57)
If you have 20 and are still working at 60 you can collect immediately.
If you have 5+ years and are still working at 62 you can collect immediately.

"If you retire at the MRA with at least 10, but less than 30 years of service, your benefit will be reduced by 5 percent a year for each year you are under 62, unless you have 20 years of service and your benefit starts when you reach age 60 or later."

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/eligibility/

I'm not trying to burst your bubble, maybe you have access to something I don't. Federal Law Enforcement? Fire fighter?

Also, I read this as you did military 18-25, and have been a Fed for 2 years, so you're 27 talking about 13 years to 40. correct?

Damn damn damn.

You are correct on all accounts, including age.

Fuck. Here's hoping for a loophole I guess. I reallllllly don't want to work until I'm 50... but that would mean walking away from an even bigger retirement.

Still not quite sure why you'd have to work until 50. I'm in a similar situation; did 6 years in the military, and now I'm a federal employee. My plan is to retire in 8-10 years, with 10-12 years of federal service (this doesn't include military, as I decided the military buyback wasn't worth it).

I'll use savings entirely after FIRE until I reach age 57 (MRA), where I'll be able to draw a small pension. This is the delayed retirement option, and is available for anyone with 10+ years of service. Then a few years later I'll be able to supplement further with social security.

[Moonwaves]

Commenting to follow. Have nothing to contribute at this stage but am interested so far. :)

[fattest_foot]

Following up to my post above, I figured out why you're saying age 50. That's for "early retirement" which is  a bit of a misnomer. Early retirement from federal service only applies if there's an involuntary separation. You can't draw your pension at age 50 because you're an early retiree. What you'd be eligible for is a deferred retirement, which essentially just means you did a minimum of 10 years and are choosing to draw your pension at the minimum retirement age (MRA) of (currently) 57. The caveat to this is you can do a deferred retirement with 5 years of service, but the age to withdraw is 62.

The FERS system literally has no "early" retirement. If you started service at age 18 and did 30 years, you still can't start drawing it immediately; you've got to wait for the MRA. The only caveat, once again, is if there's some kind of major restructuring where the government is cutting massive amounts of jobs to save money (VSIP).

[randommadness]

Still not quite sure why you'd have to work until 50.

His whole plan was based on being able to collect the FERS pension at 40.

How I wish... lol

[index]

Commencing Date of Deferred Retirement
Retirement With 10 or More Years of Service

The annuity begins either:

    the first day of the month after the former employee attains the MRA, or
    later date specified by the retiree, in order to reduce or avoid the age reduction

Retirement With At Least 5 Years But Less Than 10 Years of Service

The annuity begins:

    first day of the month after the individual reaches age 62

Age Reduction

If you completed at least 10 years, but less than 30 years of creditable service before you left Federal service years, your annuity will be reduced if it begins before age 62. The only exception to this is if you had at least 20 years of service and your annuity begins when you reach age 60.

Your annuity will be reduced by 5/12 of 1 percent (5 percent per year) for each month by which your benefit commencing date precedes your 62nd birthday. However, you can postpone the commencing date of your annuity to reduce or eliminate this age reduction.

Your TSP annuity is 1% x years of service x your average high 3 salary.

You're 25 now and have 7 years of service. You can leave whenever you want after 10 years of service, but you won't see anything from the annuity until 57. Your high 3 salary will not adjust for inflation either.

Example: Say you are making a high 3 of 80k when and leave service at 40.

You have 22 years of service so your annuity is worth: 80k x 22 years x 1% = $17,600/yr at age 60 (special clause for no reduction at 60 with 20 yrs)

If you take it at 57 it will be reduced 25% (5%/yr before age 62) so it is worth $13,200/yr

The problem is there is no inflation adjustment for these numbers. Assuming 2.5% inflation:

Your retirement income in the above scenario is worth $10,750/yr at 60 and $8,700/yr at 57 in 2015 dollars.

Your retirement scenario is pretty complex. You have to figure out how much $/yr you need for ER and run a cash flow analysis using that number to determine your needed stache.

I ran it for you assuming you need 40k/yr after age 40. Your disability is worth 21.6k/yr and your annuity is worth 10.7k/yr at 60.

for assumed post inflation return for your stache:

5% - need a 295k stache at 40
4% - need a 330k stache at 40
3% - need a 380k stache at 40

[randommadness]

Still not quite sure why you'd have to work until 50. I'm in a similar situation; did 6 years in the military, and now I'm a federal employee. My plan is to retire in 8-10 years, with 10-12 years of federal service (this doesn't include military, as I decided the military buyback wasn't worth it).

Not to derail his thread, but what made you decide the buy back wasn't worth it? Would be worth 6% of your High-3 once you start collecting down the line.

16-18 years vs. 10-12, essentially 16-18% vs. 10-12%.

[mcneally]

I wasn't aware that with 30 years you could do deferred FERS and collect unreduced at 57-- I thought it was 62. You would still forfiet retiree health benefits if you do a deferred pension, right? And the social security supplement from 57-62?  It's over two decades away for me and only a difference of 3.5 years to get out at 30 years vs 57, but it would be nice to know. (Luckily I can go part time whenever I want though).

[mcneally]

Still not quite sure why you'd have to work until 50. I'm in a similar situation; did 6 years in the military, and now I'm a federal employee. My plan is to retire in 8-10 years, with 10-12 years of federal service (this doesn't include military, as I decided the military buyback wasn't worth it).

I'll use savings entirely after FIRE until I reach age 57 (MRA), where I'll be able to draw a small pension. This is the delayed retirement option, and is available for anyone with 10+ years of service. Then a few years later I'll be able to supplement further with social security.

He's not required to wait for any pension. But the difference between an MRA+30 pension and a deferred pension at age 40 with 10 years of service is the difference between having the pension able to pay all of your living expenses vs. maybe $200/ mo in today's dollars.

[nereo]

Still not quite sure why you'd have to work until 50. I'm in a similar situation; did 6 years in the military, and now I'm a federal employee. My plan is to retire in 8-10 years, with 10-12 years of federal service (this doesn't include military, as I decided the military buyback wasn't worth it).

Not to derail his thread, but what made you decide the buy back wasn't worth it? Would be worth 6% of your High-3 once you start collecting down the line.  As index mentioned, the OP needs a relatively small amount saved to reach FI.  Why give up an extra decade doing something you have 'no motivation' to do in the first place if you don't have to?

or put another way, what's the point of increased gains if you could win the game sooner?

16-18 years vs. 10-12, essentially 16-18% vs. 10-12%.

I believe one of the aspects that gets ignored by using the calculations above is that a person's lifespan is finite, and there may be no need take the buy-back at all. 

[index]

Still not quite sure why you'd have to work until 50. I'm in a similar situation; did 6 years in the military, and now I'm a federal employee. My plan is to retire in 8-10 years, with 10-12 years of federal service (this doesn't include military, as I decided the military buyback wasn't worth it).

I'll use savings entirely after FIRE until I reach age 57 (MRA), where I'll be able to draw a small pension. This is the delayed retirement option, and is available for anyone with 10+ years of service. Then a few years later I'll be able to supplement further with social security.

He's not required to wait for any pension. But the difference between an MRA+30 pension and a deferred pension at age 40 with 10 years of service is the difference between having the pension able to pay all of your living expenses vs. maybe $200/ mo in today's dollars.

MRA+10 vs MRA+30 is not that huge of a difference - taking the annuity at MRA (57) with 10 years of service reduces the annuity by 25%. The biggest difference here is in the OP's case, he would have to work an additional 8 years to get to MRA+30. This would give him 30% of his high 3 at 57 years old.

MRA+30 @ 48 - If making 85K in 2015 dollars he could draw ~20k/yr at 57
MRA+10 @ 40 - Making 80k in 2015 dollars is worth ~8.7k/yr at 57 or 10.7k/yr at 60

$1660/mo vs $725/mo - It really depends on how much money he can save between now and when he is 40. If he and his wife can save 30k per yr between now and when they are 40 (450k+ stache) then there is no need to hang on till 48 for the pension, you don't need it. If your plans don't work out; work till 48 and die with a ton of money. 

[fattest_foot]

Still not quite sure why you'd have to work until 50. I'm in a similar situation; did 6 years in the military, and now I'm a federal employee. My plan is to retire in 8-10 years, with 10-12 years of federal service (this doesn't include military, as I decided the military buyback wasn't worth it).

Not to derail his thread, but what made you decide the buy back wasn't worth it? Would be worth 6% of your High-3 once you start collecting down the line.

16-18 years vs. 10-12, essentially 16-18% vs. 10-12%.

Basically it came down to the uncertainty of whether or not I'd still be with the government. I have a horrendous job right now, and there is/was a high chance I would leave to the private sector. I ran the math, and investing the buyback amount would give me an "annuity" of anywhere between 25-50% of what the buyback would end up being.

Additionally, this is all assuming there isn't some drastic change to the FERS system in the 25+ years before I would be eligible to draw from it.

In response to mcneally's post above, that sounds like the entire summary of FIRE. Yeah, we could all work until we're 60 and have gigantic accounts to draw from. But most of us would like to get out of the rat race long before then. Retiring when I would like to at age 39 would net me around $5,400 in a FERS annuity. Could I work another 20+ years and get a 30 year pension instead? Absolutely. Is it worth it for a $21,000 pension? Not to me.

Edit: It appears the last two posts while I was typing that kind of covered my thoughts.

[jfisher3]

Stepping out for lunch (packed, not bought FYI) and coming back to all of this is pretty awesome.

Fattest_foot you can always buy back your time later if you find it becomes worth it. You can always transfer to a different job, now that you have your proverbial foot in the federal door.

Using my example, what it seems to come down to is, do I want to continue being mustachian with only some of my life, 'retire' at 43 [25 years total service] and be able to collect a pension at 57, do I want to be a consumer sucka most of my life, work until 48+, and live off of a part time job and disability until 57, or convert my SO to also being mustachian, we save like we 'should' and quit 'work' by age 35.

I'm liking the idea of trying for quitting at 35, because even if that doesn't happen, we'll land somewhere fairly comfortable.

[jfisher3]

FERS buyback is 3%, so I'm looking at roughly $7k to buy back my time.

Looking at $7k for an increase of 7% high 3 salary which I estimate will be closer to $100k, which conveniently makes for easy numbers.

Paying $7k once to add $7k/yr to my retirement is the easiest decision ever. :P

[mm1970]

You can still receive "disability" even after getting another decent paying(I assume) job?  Wow.

Yes, but it's different from civilian disability. The Military pays you for a (usually permanent) loss of use of a body part, permanent injury and/or disability you incurred in the line of duty as compensation for that loss not because you can't function well enough to get a job. I lost most of my hearing in the service permanently and am compensated for that ($400/month now) and while it affected my career and personal life big time, it didn't mean I wasn't able to work. It's more like workers compensation then actual disability.

Yes this.  I have a friend who went partially deaf in the Navy.

For some, it's a monthly payment, and some it was a one-time payment, but that might be more for medical coverage...can't remember.

[fiveoh]

You can still receive "disability" even after getting another decent paying(I assume) job?  Wow.

Yes, but it's different from civilian disability. The Military pays you for a (usually permanent) loss of use of a body part, permanent injury and/or disability you incurred in the line of duty as compensation for that loss not because you can't function well enough to get a job. I lost most of my hearing in the service permanently and am compensated for that ($400/month now) and while it affected my career and personal life big time, it didn't mean I wasn't able to work. It's more like workers compensation then actual disability. Also the amount of money you get for your disability varies greatly with a 10% service-connect disability getting approx. $130/month and a 100% service-connected disability (where you really are so massively messed up you can't work ever again) will get much more. a rated 30% disability like mine gets you approx. $400/month. Sop it's not a one-size fits all kind of thing but more how badly were you injured and what percentage of compensation is that injury/disability worth. Being permanently deaf at age 30 and out in a civilian world job hunting - especially when you worked and trained in a law enforcement field -  pretty much sucked. Getting paid a couple of hundred bucks a month (at that time) to compensate me for losing my hearing and being unemployable in my field the rest of my life wasn't exactly going to make me rich. Fortunately I did find a job in my field (sort of) but many people coming out of the service with various injuries have it way worse.

Still sounds the same as ss disability to me.  Help people who need it while they need it.  Once they can work/make money again they don't need the help financially.   Yes they still have the disability but it's no longer stopping them from making a living.  Lots of military on here and I mean no disrespect it just doesn't make sense to me.  :)

[NoraLenderbee]

You can still receive "disability" even after getting another decent paying(I assume) job?  Wow.

Yes, but it's different from civilian disability. The Military pays you for a (usually permanent) loss of use of a body part, permanent injury and/or disability you incurred in the line of duty as compensation for that loss not because you can't function well enough to get a job. I lost most of my hearing in the service permanently and am compensated for that ($400/month now) and while it affected my career and personal life big time, it didn't mean I wasn't able to work. It's more like workers compensation then actual disability. Also the amount of money you get for your disability varies greatly with a 10% service-connect disability getting approx. $130/month and a 100% service-connected disability (where you really are so massively messed up you can't work ever again) will get much more. a rated 30% disability like mine gets you approx. $400/month. Sop it's not a one-size fits all kind of thing but more how badly were you injured and what percentage of compensation is that injury/disability worth. Being permanently deaf at age 30 and out in a civilian world job hunting - especially when you worked and trained in a law enforcement field -  pretty much sucked. Getting paid a couple of hundred bucks a month (at that time) to compensate me for losing my hearing and being unemployable in my field the rest of my life wasn't exactly going to make me rich. Fortunately I did find a job in my field (sort of) but many people coming out of the service with various injuries have it way worse.

Still sounds the same as ss disability to me.  Help people who need it while they need it.  Once they can work/make money again they don't need the help financially.   Yes they still have the disability but it's no longer stopping them from making a living.  Lots of military on here and I mean no disrespect it just doesn't make sense to me.  :)

I'm a civilian, but I think the difference is this:

SS disability--provides temporary support while you can't work, goes away when you can work again. Its purpose is to replace (a portion of) your income until you can start earning again.

Military disability--compensation for a *permanent* injury. It's just like if you lost a leg on the job, and worker's comp paid you $1 million (random number). You get the $, but you never get your leg back.

The military disability just *looks* like SS disability because it's paid monthly, instead of in a lump sum like worker's comp. 

[Rural]

Military disability is compensation different because the military itself did damage to you. SS disability is a safety net to keep citizens from starving in the streets.

[Ftao93]

 I still think you're in a great spot.  So you have to work 13 years...not so bad.

After that you can probably 'consult' part time and get 3x the pay while still collecting your disability.   

I've learned that planning is a best effort thing.  you do the best you can that day, week, month, year....and things may or may not work out.  Money may be obsolete in 10 years, or we may all be eaten by a space virus, etc.

Having a house in your 20's and an income you can generally count on, you're soooo far ahead, you'll be just fine.

Thanks for your service!

[oinkette]

I'm not sure if your issue is with hating your job, or how long you have to go to reach FIRE. Maybe a bit of both. But to answer your original question I stay motivated by living life. I have about 10-12 years to go so I'm not too far off from you and eventually it does get tedious. In the begining it was fun and exciting to pay off debt (done); build my emergency fund (done); max out retirement accounts (done0: and set up my taxable accounts (done).  Eventually all I had left was to sit and watch the stache grow.  So you have to take a break from constantly thinking about retirement and quitting work.  Right now work is a part of your life.  But it doesn't have to be the only thing.

What would you do if you weren't interested in FIRE? I'm not saying that you should stop saving and forget about it, but did you like to fish, travel, cook, read, etc? Then do those things.  Once you have set everythiing up automatically, it's time to get back to your life.  Before you know it, you'll have saved enough.  As the saying goes: A watched pot never boils.

[goatmom]

You can actually receive 100 percent disability from the military and still work. There are plenty of veterans doing this.  It is not based on your income.  If you are not able to work, you can also apply for SSDI in addition to the VA disability.  Two separate programs.   

If it was such a great deal, more people would be signing up to do it!

To the OP - are you not motivated because you don't like your job?  Are you eligible for GI Bill?   Go back to school and get a job you like.  Or maybe you are eligible for Vocational Rehab.  I wouldn't sit around in a job I didn't like for that long if I had other options.  Best of luck and thank you for your service.

[jfisher3]

You can actually receive 100 percent disability from the military and still work. There are plenty of veterans doing this.  It is not based on your income.  If you are not able to work, you can also apply for SSDI in addition to the VA disability.  Two separate programs.   

If it was such a great deal, more people would be signing up to do it!

To the OP - are you not motivated because you don't like your job?  Are you eligible for GI Bill?   Go back to school and get a job you like.  Or maybe you are eligible for Vocational Rehab.  I wouldn't sit around in a job I didn't like for that long if I had other options.  Best of luck and thank you for your service.

I failed to explain where my lack of motivation lies.

I like my job. It interests me, it usually keeps me pretty busy, and it pays quite well.

My lack of motivation was that if everything worked out the way I thought, I wouldn't truly NEED a 'stache, as the two incomes would cover everything, so I found I was getting rather lax in being frugal.

After the many points made, and much learning that has happened, I've discovered that it won't work exactly as I've pictured, and even though it will still work out well in the end, I can make it a lot better by not going back to being the stereotypical 'consumer'.

I have considered going back to school, as I'll get a yearly average of $1100/mo for 3 years for going to school full time. Once I'm more in a groove at this job (takes about 3 years with lots of OJT) then I may be able to make the time to be a full time employee and full time student.


Oinkette you have a very good point, if I can paraphrase it: work to get everything established to run on autopilot to be able to enjoy the new freedom I'm making, while I'm making it.

[fattest_foot]

I was reading the "Overheard at Work" thread and Sol brought up a good point that I had not considered:

FERS for an early retiree is kind of a terrible deal. Your high-3 salary will end up being in today's dollars, which means if you wait 15-25 years to draw, means a lot of inflation.

I somehow overlooked this in my own calculations (since I just do everything in today's dollars and discount my earnings percentage by about 3% for inflation). This makes my decision not to buyback my military time look better. It's definitely something to keep in mind when looking at it as supplemental income once you hit "retirement age."

[Cassie]

The more $ you save the sooner you may be able to leave paid work & wait until your pension starts.  Many military jobs come with risks that can negatively impact your entire life in every area.  That is why the disability pay & without it who would want to join?

[jfisher3]

I was reading the "Overheard at Work" thread and Sol brought up a good point that I had not considered:

FERS for an early retiree is kind of a terrible deal. Your high-3 salary will end up being in today's dollars, which means if you wait 15-25 years to draw, means a lot of inflation.

I somehow overlooked this in my own calculations (since I just do everything in today's dollars and discount my earnings percentage by about 3% for inflation). This makes my decision not to buyback my military time look better. It's definitely something to keep in mind when looking at it as supplemental income once you hit "retirement age."

That's a good point for the inflation.

But buying back time... I'd still gladly pay $7k in today's dollars to get $7k of todays dollars back every year, even if the next year it's only worth $6800, at that point it's all profit.

[G-dog]

Well, trusting the federal government not to screw you is probably a good indicator that you're not making the best decisions. Remember who you're relying on. Save that $ so that even if the Feds decide to drop or decrease pensions, you already have an FU stash.

Yes.

Holy crap yes. It took me a minute to get over myself and to seriously consider the statement. Pre-caffeine brain said "wtf are you trying to say, I don't make good decisions?". Post caffeine, holy crap you're right. Just last week, the crooks in DC talked about tapping into the Federal 401k program (TSP) like they did social security.

Thanks :)

^this. I was not in govt jobs, but for me it was uncertainty that kept me saving. Are either of you income streams going to be adjusted for inflation? Is med covered in retirement?  I basically assumed that one or more of my projected resources would go to zero, and if so, would I still be OK without that money stream.

Being in the govt,, you likely have more security in some ways, and less in other ways. If we have another govt. shutdown post-retirement, will you get your payments, or will they be held until the govt is reopened? This is an immediate cash flow issue, not FIRE, but another thing to consider.

[randommadness]

I wasn't aware that with 30 years you could do deferred FERS and collect unreduced at 57-- I thought it was 62. You would still forfiet retiree health benefits if you do a deferred pension, right? And the social security supplement from 57-62?  It's over two decades away for me and only a difference of 3.5 years to get out at 30 years vs 57, but it would be nice to know. (Luckily I can go part time whenever I want though).

As far as I know, yes you forfeit the health benefit. My thought is it shouldn't be that difficult to save up the additional funds to hopefully not have to worry about that.

[randommadness]

Basically it came down to the uncertainty of whether or not I'd still be with the government. I have a horrendous job right now, and there is/was a high chance I would leave to the private sector. I ran the math, and investing the buyback amount would give me an "annuity" of anywhere between 25-50% of what the buyback would end up being.

Additionally, this is all assuming there isn't some drastic change to the FERS system in the 25+ years before I would be eligible to draw from it.

In response to mcneally's post above, that sounds like the entire summary of FIRE. Yeah, we could all work until we're 60 and have gigantic accounts to draw from. But most of us would like to get out of the rat race long before then. Retiring when I would like to at age 39 would net me around $5,400 in a FERS annuity. Could I work another 20+ years and get a 30 year pension instead? Absolutely. Is it worth it for a $21,000 pension? Not to me.

Edit: It appears the last two posts while I was typing that kind of covered my thoughts.

Yeah my concern was just in that you'd already done the time in the military, may as well get the benefit from it. Good arguments for everything though.

[The_path_less_taken]

Thank you for your service, and I'm very sorry you were injured performing it.

I'm not really 'up' on Fed retirement info.

Something I do have a lot of experience in is ducks. Are you SURE you want ducks on the homestead? Do you have a bigass pond for them, that you don't need as a water source for other animals?

Because ducks---cute as they are---are magic shit machines. I'm serious: you can (and will) give a duck 1/3lb of dry food a day, and greens, and it will turn it into a cubic foot of wet snot. That smells exactly like television zombies look.

And they're LOUD: they start screaming their heads off as you turn into the driveway from work.

And....did I mention the nonstop shitting?

The eggs are good for baking, but they don't do nonstop eggs--they slow down production to almost nothing, and usually nothing in Dec/Jan. But if you're going for eggs, chickens are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy easier. Cleaner. Don't smell as bad. Don't require as much food. Are slightly better at getting away from predators: they'll zip around and hide from a hawk.

My ducks run into each other like  Keystone cops when the hawks come by.

Your mileage may vary. I also live in the desert and am constantly refilling their buckets and small pools...way, way too much work.

But, they are cute.

[zephyr911]

I think what you meant to say was, 40 is the earliest you can retire and get immediate benefits.
If you leave earlier, you get your retirement later and it's smaller. So... stack up more cash and make it happen.

I'm only doing 5 as a fed because I'm bored... I won't get that deferred retirement for 20+ years, but that's OK. I've figured out the interim plan.