Author Topic: Savings Rate  (Read 8169 times)

Tyrist

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Savings Rate
« on: April 22, 2016, 02:55:07 PM »
Since my friends and family roll their eyes every time I talk about savings I will share it here.  I just checked and I managed a 50.1% savings rate for 2015.  I used to think my 25-30% savings rate through my mid to late 20s was good but everyone here has really motivated me.  So I wanted to share and thank everyone on the forum.

AZDude

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2016, 03:00:06 PM »
Congratulations on getting over the 50% hump!

SyZ

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 03:07:14 PM »
Does paying extra money on your loans count as savings?

Tyrist

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2016, 03:10:31 PM »
Spyz how could you consider it savings when you are paying back past consumption?

Cassie

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2016, 03:11:30 PM »
Syz: good for you on paying back loans and getting things on track.

tonysemail

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2016, 03:15:33 PM »
congrats!  nice job putting your money to work for you :)

SyZ

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 04:00:37 PM »
I thought I wasn't supposed to live in the past, only the present and future? So if I currently have a $200 debt, and I choose to pay all $200 down this month instead of the $20 minimum payment and putting the other $180 in my savings account, are we saying that either way I saved $200? Or did I only save $20? Or $180? Or did I save none because the debt is 'paying down past consumerism?'

Davids

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2016, 04:06:24 PM »
Does paying extra money on your loans count as savings?
Depends on the loan, if it is additional principal on your mortgage then yes, if it is paying extra for a car loan then no.

albireo13

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2016, 07:21:46 PM »
That's funny talk. 
Savings is funds or investments that you can call on in the future.
Paying down a loan isn't savings.  It's reduction of your losses.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2016, 05:00:06 AM »
Does paying extra money on your loans count as savings?
Depends on the loan, if it is additional principal on your mortgage then yes, if it is paying extra for a car loan then no.

Interesting differentiation... since money is so fungible, how would you argue this point?

Tjat

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2016, 05:47:58 AM »
Paying down debt has the same positive impact on your net worth as saving money elsewhere. You shouldn't count the interest as savings, but from an accounting and net worth perspective, principle payments are savings.

Beridian

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2016, 08:08:45 AM »
Now that I am out from under paying alimony (FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST!), my savings rate is about 52%.

Davids

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2016, 12:02:42 PM »
Does paying extra money on your loans count as savings?
Depends on the loan, if it is additional principal on your mortgage then yes, if it is paying extra for a car loan then no.

Interesting differentiation... since money is so fungible, how would you argue this point?
Paying towards principal on your mortgage is savings because it increases your equity in home (The interest portion of your mortgage payment is expense). An automobile is a depreciating asset so any payment toward an auto loan is an expense.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2016, 12:20:29 PM »
Paying down debt has the same positive impact on your net worth as saving money elsewhere. You shouldn't count the interest as savings, but from an accounting and net worth perspective, principle payments are savings.

I would tend to agree with this, though everyone has their own system of measurement where savings rates are concerned. If you don't want to count debt principal as savings, nobody's making you.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2016, 12:22:47 PM »
An asset none the less Davids.

If I were to FIRE today or get fired and need the funds I could sell my vehicle for ~$16-17k and call it a day.

JZinCO

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2016, 12:25:37 PM »
Does paying extra money on your loans count as savings?
Depends on the loan, if it is additional principal on your mortgage then yes, if it is paying extra for a car loan then no.

Interesting differentiation... since money is so fungible, how would you argue this point?
Paying towards principal on your mortgage is savings because it increases your equity in home (The interest portion of your mortgage payment is expense). An automobile is a depreciating asset so any payment toward an auto loan is an expense.
I agree. Much like buying a paper asset, you can hold something appraised at a certain value (gold bars, paintaings, real estate) or hold that value's worth in cash.

If you want to get technical you could consider the net of car loan payments after interest and depreciation savings because you can in theory sell the car after payments and transfer from a physical holding back to cash.

edit: A mathematically equivalent way is to deduct the whole cost of payments as an expense when the expense occurs. Then, when the sale occurs, I count that as income. I do this because there is a great deal of uncertainty in what the actual unrealized value is of a car (you could total it &sell it to insurance, sell to a scrapper, sell to a private buyer, sell to a dealership and all come with a different valuation).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 12:30:39 PM by JZinCO »

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2016, 12:29:42 PM »
Does paying extra money on your loans count as savings?
Depends on the loan, if it is additional principal on your mortgage then yes, if it is paying extra for a car loan then no.

Interesting differentiation... since money is so fungible, how would you argue this point?
Paying towards principal on your mortgage is savings because it increases your equity in home (The interest portion of your mortgage payment is expense). An automobile is a depreciating asset so any payment toward an auto loan is an expense.
I agree. Much like buying a paper asset, you can hold something appraised at a certain value (gold bars, paintaings, real estate) or hold that value's worth in cash.

If you want to get technical you could consider the net of car loan payments after interest and depreciation savings because you can in theory sell the car after payments and transfer from a physical holding back to cash.

I do exactly this in net worth calculations as well as savings rate calcs. Car depreciation is a line item in my monthly budget.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2016, 12:31:26 PM »
Does paying extra money on your loans count as savings?
Depends on the loan, if it is additional principal on your mortgage then yes, if it is paying extra for a car loan then no.

Interesting differentiation... since money is so fungible, how would you argue this point?
Paying towards principal on your mortgage auto loan is savings because it increases your equity in home vehicle(The interest portion of your mortgage auto loanpayment is expense). An automobile house is a depreciating asset so any payment toward an auto house loan is an expense.

FTFY.  Or do houses ALWAYS appreciate?

Cars and houses are both assets with fluxuating value, and both can be purchased with low-interest loans.  One asset class may statistically offer better returns, but essentially they're identical from a savings standpoint.

JZinCO

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2016, 12:31:40 PM »
Yeah. To each their own.
I would deduct 100% of car payments and then if it is sold, count that as income. The numbers work out the same in the end but I am liquidity-focused in my cash flow and savings calcs.
I would do the same with a primary home as well.

Undecided

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Re: Savings Rate
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2016, 09:58:09 PM »
It seems like I've avoided some pointless stress by never thinking about my savings rate.