"Show me your papers!" Full lockdown imminent?

[spartana]

Has anyone who is still going into work, especially DoD contractors and the like, received a letter from their employer to carry with them while in transit from their home to their jobs to show to  "The Authorities" that they are allowed to be out? Several people I know we're given a letter from their very large employer and its kind of freaking them out with images of full lockdown, barbed wire check points, armed Nat Guards patrols, etc. Basicly Martial Law. Do those employers know something we don't know or is this a common thing? None of them had ever gotten a letter like this before.

[wenchsenior]

I think some of the states are giving these to essential businesses for their employees.  I have relatives in WI and MN that are supposed to carry them when they go to work. WI is under shelter in place restrictions, while MN is not.  I think it's a state by state decision, but I'm not certain.

[Morning Glory]

We gave them to our patients but not our staff. The wording is a bit scary. I don't think the police will start stopping people. Some of the senior citizen housing places are forcing residents to stay in their apartments though, so the main danger is that some idiot will try to stop someone from coming to dialysis.

We have one staff member who was worried because she commutes from another state and she was told to just show her badge if the police stopped her.

[pressure9pa]

I work in manufacturing, and we are considered essential by our state.  We make raw materials serving ammunition, electrical distribution, military, health, and automotive.  The strictest interpretation would probably say 15% of our product line is essential, the loosest would probably say 55%.  Nonetheless, we are open and we did receive a document from HR in case we are questioned while going to or returning from work.

[Laserjet3051]

Yes, wife and daughter in Orange County received papers as did I in MI. If stopped, we would "show our papers." It may, or may not, get to that point. We will see.

[chemistk]

I got one, I work in the food industry and HR identified my role as a 'critical role'. I actually got mine last Tuesday, but I think it's mostly as a just in case rather than a sign that thebhigher ups know something is coming.

[Cranky]

My dd has them - she drives across the state line to work in a hospital lab.

My town has an actual curfew in place.

[SotI]

My company privides such letters on request. They are not preemptively issued (Europe, though, by country, as some of the borders are closed).

[Mr. Green]

Dare County, North Carolina (the Outer Banks) is already in full lockdown. Police have established checkpoints and are only allowing residents in. Of course there's elevated risk there because of vacationers trying to rent beach houses there. It's possible our local beach towns on barrier islands could follow suit. I suppose it will depend on what extreme measures places that aren't heavily saturated yet want to go to to keep people out. New York is just now hitting the point where the reality that was forecast is in their faces (bed shortages, triaging who lives and dies) and I'm sure its really opening the eyes if some people. Both the State and Local governments here have really started to push extra measures in the last 48 hours.

[frugalnacho]

My employer preemptively gave a letter to all employees detailing what section of the CISA memo qualifies us as essential in case we get stopped by police.

[lutorm]

We got them, too, but I haven't heard of anyone needing to use it. As long as people are free to go get groceries or exercise or whatever I can't see anyone getting stopped.

[Telecaster]

I'm basically a contractor.  My of my big clients sent me a letter from their attorney saying I'm an essential business.  What I do clearly is not an essential business as defined by the governor. 

[frugalnacho]

We got them, too, but I haven't heard of anyone needing to use it. As long as people are free to go get groceries or exercise or whatever I can't see anyone getting stopped.

I would have a hard time explaining why I was 12 miles from my home, in Detroit which is a different city and county than I live in according to my driver's license.

That said I'm not seeing much police presence anyway. I'm also assuming cops aren't going to be pulling anyone over unless they are doing something egregious. I know I sure as shit wouldn't be pulling people over and interacting with them if I was a cop.

[frugalnacho]

I'm basically a contractor.  My of my big clients sent me a letter from their attorney saying I'm an essential business.  What I do clearly is not an essential business as defined by the governor.

It's almost a joke how lenient the interpretation of essential is.  If a business is defined as essential, then every business that serves them is essential by extension.  Is it really essential that a company that cleans rugs, or that delivers paper be deemed essential and keeps working? If they serve our company apparently it is.  Multiple employees have even brought the issue up directly saying not only is our rug cleaning service probably not essential, it's creating a huge risk because these assholes are going around to every "essential" business in the hotspot of Detroit and swapping out their rugs, AND THEN COMING INTO OUR FACILITY TO CHANGE OUT OUR RUGS AS WELL AND BRINGING ALL THE CONTAMINANTS THEY'VE ACCIDENTALLY ACCUMULATED. 

it's absurd. The majority of people seem to be taking this seriously, but for most people faced with the option of "do we voluntarily shut down or just keep trying to make money?" They choose the short term money option.  I had a Frank discussion with my manager asking how essential we truly are, and at what point we would reevaluate that. I mean if our area blows up like Italy, will you still insist we remain open and put everyone at risk? If we literally have staff getting infected, and possibly dieing, will we still remain open at that point? Is there some number of infections and or deaths in our immediate area that will cause you to reevaluate? I couldn't get an answer other than they would reevaluate if it came to that. I stressed that it is coming to that, it's just a matter of time.  NY is following Italy, and we are following NY.  You don't think it sounds that bad in Detroit right now because our numbers are lower than NY and italy, but it's not because it's not going to happen to us, it's just because it got to those places first. We are just 2-3 weeks behind, but it's going to get hairy.

[projekt]

Our municipalities are issuing stay at home orders but they do not seem to be checking anything and there was nothing in the order requiring documentation of a need to be out. Nevertheless my employees asked for documentation, so I wrote letters for them. There's no particular template to base them on.

[Cassie]

In Nevada employers are giving out letters. I think the entire country should be made to stay at home unless essential. We could stop the virus much quicker if we did. As it is we have been home for 2 weeks with no end in sight.

[rantk81]

Even if the "stay at home" became an official order, and was enforced 100x stronger than it is now, I don't think it would completely stop this virus.  It will just slow the transmission rate for a while.  The minute the "stay at home" order is lifted, it will begin spreading again -- until it works its way through and the majority develops immunity (hopefully.)

It does buy the pharma companies time to create a vaccine and therapeutics, in addition to avoiding overwhelming the health care providers.

But it's going to be a long grind, unfortunately :(

[icebox92]

We've been given cards to carry with us during our commute.  We are a GC with presence across the country, and one of our employees was ticketed in California for not being able to prove they were working for an essential service.  So now we all have cards...

[PDXTabs]

Italy is a "show me your papers" country, but people are allowed to create their own paperwork from what I've read.

[Photograph 51]

I have two letters from two different employers.  We have also started giving out ID cards to out patients just in case.  And we have been told not to use the phrase "martial law" around our patients, as many of our patients have anxiety disorders that we want to be careful not to feed.

[JoJo]

My friend who installs internet an phone in remote areas of California was given such a letter.  He also was instructed to wear gloves and mask but not provided any.

[KBecks]

My husband has a thing to place in his car, but he is working from home and it's no big deal.  I have had no troubles at all going out to the grocery store or for short drives around town.  Not worried. 

[ketchup]

I got a letter too (IL).  Seems like mostly just a precaution at this point, but we'll see.

[renata ricotta]

I have a letter for my employer in the event I find it essential to go to the office in order to carry out a legally-mandated activity (I'm a lawyer, but most of my legally mandated activities like writing and filing briefs can be done from home). I think it's much more likely I'd have to show it to private building security than true law enforcement.

I think that even in states and municipalities where the orders have teeth and can be enforced, they will do everything they can NOT to have law enforcement stop random individuals. These things are WAY more palatable and the public supports them much more when they feel more like "we're all in this together/shared sacrifice/do your bit for the war effort" than like we're living in an authoritarian police state. This is why all the governors are trying to make the order sound more and more friendly (shelter in place -> safer at home -> stay safe, stay home). In LA, enforcement measures are focused on infrastructure (if you close all beach/park/hiking trail parking lots, most people won't go and then you don't have to be ticketing crowds of people) and on businesses who are refusing to comply (by threatening to turn off electricity/utilities, not citations). This seems like a good thing to me - better for morale and public buy-in, and doesn't require individual officers to encounter people in person. I'd rather have law enforcement focusing their efforts on better things, like keeping general security and safety and getting homeless people into isolation shelters.

[Freedomin5]

In China, it’s more like “Show me your Health QR code!”

They have a system where they register your health status. You need to have a green status to enter most public places. Green status means that you are virus-free. The app is linked to hospital and government virus-tracking systems and gets updates in real-time. Your temperature is also taken before entering any public place and before entering your residential complex. If you have a fever it is reported and your code in the app changes to yellow/red.

[FINate]

I'm going with [modified] Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is probably the right one. In the face of very official and overly detailed health orders full of legalese and threats of $1000 misdemeanors, essential businesses feel compelled to provide employees with very official looking paperwork signaling their essential status. This way no one "mistakenly" fails to show for work because they were confused or afraid of getting in trouble.

Not saying states/counties won't become more strict over time, which I think is entirely possible if people don't remain at home. I just don't think there's any kind of deep state conspiracy planning this in secret.

[the_fixer]

My work supplied me with a letter authorizing me to travel across state borders as we travel between 5 different states and are considered critical to national security.

Has lots of fancy words and references some homeland security stuff.

No one has been pulled over yet but I am planning to carry it with me as states around us are talking about closing state lines with us since we are considered a hot spot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[geekette]

Dare County, North Carolina (the Outer Banks) is already in full lockdown. Police have established checkpoints and are only allowing residents in. Of course there's elevated risk there because of vacationers trying to rent beach houses there.

The Outer Banks have a hospital with 20 beds.  It's also not quick to get anywhere else.  If vacationers fill up those rental houses and bring a little Covid-19 with them...

[use2betrix]

I work in oil & gas. We are basically considered essential because the country needs fuel to continue to run. Granted - there’s big reserves, many positions could be considered non-essential, etc.

I still have two types of letters, as do my employees.

Our headquarters has a couple thousand people and is probably 95% shut down as everyone is expected to work from home. I have an office there and on job sites. The job sites are still open. My project managers have told me I can work from home more, but I have employees that need to be present so I need to still set that precedent. I worked from home last Friday (and I typically work from home Saturdays regardless) and I was still swamped non-stop for a 10 hour day. I may move to working from home Monday’s and Friday’s, but we’ll see. I keep two monitors and a docking station for my work laptop at our apartment, so my setup is just as efficient.

[Villanelle]

Husband is active duty military and is still going into the office, though not most days.  He has received nothing and hasn't heard anything about something like that being issued. 

He does have his military ID, but given that not everyone is going to work, I would think that wouldn't be enough, but maybe it would be.

[Sailor Sam]

I've been explicitly told that active duty CAC will act in stead of any letter.

[Miss Prim]

My son received a paper stating he is essential, which is bull because he and his crew do engine testing for a bunch of different car companies.  That being said, one of his employees got stopped by the police in Michigan getting onto I=94 and asked where he was going.  The next day, they all had papers.  I have been going to my mom's periodically to check on her and have not seen anyone being stopped.

                                                                             Miss Prim

[Glenstache]

I've seen a few examples along the lines of FrugalNacho's in my own industry where non-essential business are interpreting their own work to be essential. I understand the motivation, but it is short sighted and selfish. I am glad that my company interpreted the WA stay at home orders to comply with the intent of the law. Honestly, there are enough people who will just do whatever they want that checkpoints could be appropriate where distancing measures are not adequately followed. 

[DHMO]

My coworkers asked for paperwork, so we've had it since March 20th (in New Jersey). It took the form of a memorandum, sent to the local police department and CC'ed to us so we could access it on our laptops or print and carry it. They did consult with the police department before doing it, so I guess this is the preferred format here. It lists our names and says:
"To whom it may concern:
<Company>, located at <Address>, is a <specific type of telecom> company operating <the network> globally and we are deemed essential for this reason.

The employees listed above are essential to the continued operation of <the network> around the globe and need to be in the office to manage <the network (in a hands-on way)>.

Signed,
Building Superintendent
<Super's Cell Phone Number>"

They didn't feel a need to get fancy and reference the DHS list or toss around "National Security".

[renata ricotta]

Governor Newsom of California reiterated that he'd rather rely on social pressure than law enforcement, which I think is the right policy decision as long as it works. It keeps law enforcement resources appropriately allocated in crunch time and boosts morale and public buy-in (have law enforcement focus on the blatant offenders, like that ridiculous pastor in Florida).

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-31/gavin-newsom-social-pressure-california-coronavirus-shutdown-stay-home-order

[Villanelle]

I've been explicitly told that active duty CAC will act in stead of any letter.

That's sort of odd, given that so many active duty are currently not working away from home every day.  Or in some cases, not even most (or any) days. 

Husband is still one day a week.  And has recently been told that even that may be going away. 

[scottnews]

We were emailed about 9 papers to print out and carry at all times, one for each building we support.   No one has asked for them yet.
Printing medical labels.

[bilmar]

A couple of days ago I posted in another thread about the possibility that we may end up with survivors who can prove they had the virus becoming a new kind of 'class' of person and how that might take a dark turn if they get access to transport, jobs etc the rest of us don't.

Today I saw this on BBC news;

Posted at 13:3813:38
UK 'looking at immunity passports'
Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the UK is looking into "immunity passports" for those who have developed antibodies to the virus.

These would help people return to normal life "as much as possible" after a test has shown they have already had the virus, he says.

However he cautions that their understanding of people's level of immunity after having had the virus is still at an early stage.

He adds that as someone who has recovered from the virus, he has a "strong interest" in the idea.

[scottish]

In China, it’s more like “Show me your Health QR code!”

They have a system where they register your health status. You need to have a green status to enter most public places. Green status means that you are virus-free. The app is linked to hospital and government virus-tracking systems and gets updates in real-time. Your temperature is also taken before entering any public place and before entering your residential complex. If you have a fever it is reported and your code in the app changes to yellow/red.

and the Chinese are probably pretty comfortable with this, correct?      I find it hard to imagine accepting this in North America...

[maizefolk]

In China, it’s more like “Show me your Health QR code!”

They have a system where they register your health status. You need to have a green status to enter most public places. Green status means that you are virus-free. The app is linked to hospital and government virus-tracking systems and gets updates in real-time. Your temperature is also taken before entering any public place and before entering your residential complex. If you have a fever it is reported and your code in the app changes to yellow/red.

and the Chinese are probably pretty comfortable with this, correct?      I find it hard to imagine accepting this in North America...

I know folks in Michigan who are already having to self document temperature and absence of symptoms and upload them online in order to leave the house (believe it is a county-level rule not state-wide).

I think we're a lot closer to being willing to accept that sort of tracking here in NA than you might guess. Particularly if the lockdowns last another few weeks before something like this was introduced as an entirely voluntary method to allow some people to be allowed to leave the house.

[Freedomin5]

In China, it’s more like “Show me your Health QR code!”

They have a system where they register your health status. You need to have a green status to enter most public places. Green status means that you are virus-free. The app is linked to hospital and government virus-tracking systems and gets updates in real-time. Your temperature is also taken before entering any public place and before entering your residential complex. If you have a fever it is reported and your code in the app changes to yellow/red.

and the Chinese are probably pretty comfortable with this, correct?      I find it hard to imagine accepting this in North America...

I know folks in Michigan who are already having to self document temperature and absence of symptoms and upload them online in order to leave the house (believe it is a county-level rule not state-wide).

I think we're a lot closer to being willing to accept that sort of tracking here in NA than you might guess. Particularly if the lockdowns last another few weeks before something like this was introduced as an entirely voluntary method to allow some people to be allowed to leave the house.

@scottish

It’s not about being comfortable or uncomfortable. It’s about doing what is necessary to keep yourself and others safe. Just like how Trump is about to announce that all Americans wear cloth masks according to new CDC guidelines. People just need to realize that they are going to need to do a lot of uncomfortable things if they want to have even a hope of getting this crisis under control. In a crisis, you do what needs to be done.

With regard to the health QR code, the government has asked people to stay home if they are sick. If everyone  actually cared and did as requested, maybe they wouldn’t have needed to move to more desperate measures. I’m personally not super comfortable with this, but I do understand why they are doing this and am willing to go along with it.

[cats]

I have been told by my employer to carry my company issued ID card when traveling to any work.  I haven't heard of any formal requirements from the state or local governments. At the moment I am 100% teleworking though so I have not had to test this out.  My employer is pretty unambiguously essential so I guess for the moment they are assuming that having a company issued ID card will be enough to establish that you are "essential", though obviously as with any essential business some of our employees are more essential than others.

[frugalnacho]

I'm in Michigan and it's definitely not a state wide requirement to log anything.  There is a stay-at-home order, but you're free to leave.  Today spring sprang in Michigan, it was warm and sunny. Traffic was about double what it's been since the stay-at-home order was issued, and pedestrian traffic was up about 10X what it's been. People walking, biking, playing basketball ball, mingling with their neighbors and petting each others dogs. 

There are work place guidelines for Wayne county (Detroit) and Oakland county (adjacent to Detroit) businesses.  We have a check in questionnaire before we can get on site. Basically asks if you've had any of the symptoms, have you been in contact with the infected, have you traveled on airplane. Some places scan your temperature but my employer doesn't, but I think they are trying to get infrared sensors to be able to do that.

[penguintroopers]

Yes, I got mine two weeks ago.

Mine actually pisses me off. The gist of the letter is this:

To whom it may concern:

The person presenting this letter is an employee of <company> at <location>

As you may know <company> is doing COVID testing, and requires employees 24/7 to perform essential duties.

So I work for company (true), company is doing COVID testing (also true), but if you skim read it sounds like I'm doing COVID testing (not true) or at the minimum enabling other employees to perform COVID testing (still not true). I'm expected to keep this letter and present it if asked, which I will do, but proving what I say after the fact, well... lets just say that's going to be between me and the officer.

[BudgetSlasher]

Our state's current order allows for "Engaging in outdoor exercise activities, such as fishing, walking, hiking, running or biking, but only in compliance with the gathering restriction in Executive Order 14 FY 19/20 and all applicable social distancing guidance published by the U.S. and Maine Centers for Disease Control and Prevention"

We've got friends in France and they tell us you have to fill out a form before leaving the house; "Your form must be filled out correctly and a new one written/printed out each time with the hour you left the property indicated if exercising or going to the grocery store."

[markbike528CBX]

Our state's current order allows for "Engaging in outdoor exercise activities, such as fishing, walking, hiking, running or biking, but only in compliance with the gathering restriction in Executive Order 14 FY 19/20 and all applicable social distancing guidance published by the U.S. and Maine Centers for Disease Control and Prevention"

We've got friends in France and they tell us you have to fill out a form before leaving the house; "Your form must be filled out correctly and a new one written/printed out each time with the hour you left the property indicated if exercising or going to the grocery store."

---- That is why all the toilet paper hoarding started.  Those people are genius clairvoyants (see, French-derived words there....).  /s

[Schaefer Light]

If law enforcement were to stop you, it seems like all you would have to do to avoid punishment is say that you're going to the grocery store.

[penguintroopers]

If law enforcement were to stop you, it seems like all you would have to do to avoid punishment is say that you're going to the grocery store.

Which is why I think the people afraid of military style blockades and road closures are a little extreme. We would be getting food rations or designated shopping days then too.

[Jadzia37000]

Has anyone who is still going into work, especially DoD contractors and the like, received a letter from their employer to carry with them while in transit from their home to their jobs to show to  "The Authorities" that they are allowed to be out? Several people I know we're given a letter from their very large employer and its kind of freaking them out with images of full lockdown, barbed wire check points, armed Nat Guards patrols, etc. Basicly Martial Law. Do those employers know something we don't know or is this a common thing? None of them had ever gotten a letter like this before.

My neighbors are DYING to turn people in.  It's really disturbing.

[former player]

If law enforcement were to stop you, it seems like all you would have to do to avoid punishment is say that you're going to the grocery store.

Yes, unless you've driven past 3 different grocery stores and ended up 15 miles away in a beachside carpark.