Author Topic: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money  (Read 12459 times)

HeadedWest2029

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Nice little podcast on passive vs active investing with interviews with Barry Ritholtz, Bogle and others.  Really looking forward to the next episode on personal finance.  Bonus: New White House communications guy Anthony Scaramucci making a fool of himself around 40 minutes in...

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/stupidest-money/

jjandjab

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 11:42:13 AM »
Look forward to listening to this on my long ride home tonight (a very un-mustachian commute). My favorite overall podcast, this and Planet Money.

slappy

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 12:10:44 PM »
Just downloaded it

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 12:23:14 PM »
Wow, Scaramucci is a slimy worm. Not that I expected anything different from him since he's a Trump appointee after all.

I couldn't care less about all the jobs Wall Street is going to lose due to passive investing. Do you know what kind of people work on Wall Street? Bros. Every single one of them. They've had a good sixty years to enjoy scamming working people out of their money and then spending that money on coke and whores in Vegas. The gravy train is coming to an end.

Absolutely nobody needs an "investment expert". They know nothing. Remember that guy doing keg stands at the frat party in college? That's the guy who has been handling everybody's money. Screw him.

BTH7117

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 12:24:44 PM »
Wow, Scaramucci is a slimy worm. Not that I expected anything different from him since he's a Trump appointee after all.

I couldn't care less about all the jobs Wall Street is going to lose due to passive investing. Do you know what kind of people work on Wall Street? Bros. Every single one of them. They've had a good sixty years to enjoy scamming working people out of their money and then spending that money on coke and whores in Vegas. The gravy train is coming to an end.

Absolutely nobody needs an "investment expert". They know nothing. Remember that guy doing keg stands at the frat party in college? That's the guy who has been handling everybody's money. Screw him.

I was just coming here to post something similar.  I have never been more convinced that passive investment is absolutely the way to go.

CheapScholar

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 12:49:06 PM »
Gosh it just never stops around here. 

I'm proud of my President.

bacchi

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 12:55:38 PM »
I couldn't care less about all the jobs Wall Street is going to lose due to passive investing. Do you know what kind of people work on Wall Street? Bros. Every single one of them. They've had a good sixty years to enjoy scamming working people out of their money and then spending that money on coke and whores in Vegas. The gravy train is coming to an end.

A well known mutual fund company is HQed nearby and they hire ex-college football players who weren't quite good enough to make it in the NFL but have some name recognition. As you can guess, the ex-football stars usually aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer.


Luck12

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 01:07:59 PM »
Wow, Scaramucci is a slimy worm. Not that I expected anything different from him since he's a Trump appointee after all.

I couldn't care less about all the jobs Wall Street is going to lose due to passive investing. Do you know what kind of people work on Wall Street? Bros. Every single one of them. They've had a good sixty years to enjoy scamming working people out of their money and then spending that money on coke and whores in Vegas. The gravy train is coming to an end.

Absolutely nobody needs an "investment expert". They know nothing. Remember that guy doing keg stands at the frat party in college? That's the guy who has been handling everybody's money. Screw him.

LOL, +1.  I graduated from a university where many end up working on Wall St.   Every single person who went to Wall St was an asshole.  So fuck them.   

Additionally, talk about inefficiency! A lot of these people could be putting their brains to use in a much more economically and morally efficient manner (e.g. scientific research).   

dividendman

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 02:51:37 PM »
I couldn't care less about all the jobs Wall Street is going to lose due to passive investing. Do you know what kind of people work on Wall Street? Bros. Every single one of them. They've had a good sixty years to enjoy scamming working people out of their money and then spending that money on coke and whores in Vegas. The gravy train is coming to an end.

I LOVE when gravy trains come to an end. Taxis (especially scammers who just own taxi licenses and make these secondary markets that exploit actual drivers) and uber/lyft, investment managers and passive investing... i'm waiting for the real estate agent gravy train to end as well as the car dealership gravy train.

asauer

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 03:10:42 PM »
I listened this morning- great podcast and great episode.  Yeah- the guy from Trump admin had no argument which is disappointing.  This program can usually find compelling arguments for both sides of an issue.  This guy didn't measure up.

travelawyer

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 03:33:41 PM »
"Wall Street" (but not Wall Street) person here--and also a very nonathletic female mustachian (and fan of Freakonomics podcast).  I'm going to counter the trend here and say that Scaramucci actually had a point re DOL rule.  I've struggled with this myself, but we have to remember that financial advice, and regulations around financial advice are geared toward REGULAR PEOPLE.  Not mustachians.  Not even smart people. 

And the fact is that even a football player telling you not to sell in a market crash is better than nothing. 

The podcast itself indirectly references a concern with letting regular people have at their own investments--index ETFs are being actively traded by investors.  I'll admit that I, a smart mustachian lawyer, have actively traded leveraged ETFs, even though I know that's a bad idea.  So I can only imagine what everyone else is doing (actually, I can tell you what they are doing--buying high during market euphorias, and selling low in a panic).

nawhite

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2017, 05:11:12 PM »
I'm going to counter the trend here and say that Scaramucci actually had a point re DOL rule.  I've struggled with this myself, but we have to remember that financial advice, and regulations around financial advice are geared toward REGULAR PEOPLE.  Not mustachians.  Not even smart people. 

And the fact is that even a football player telling you not to sell in a market crash is better than nothing. 

So why can't we require the football player to have your best interests at heart (be a fiduciary)? Either
1) He wouldn't be any worse off if we require him to be a fiduciary and thus the REGULAR PEOPLE win or
2) If we require him to be a fiduciary, he'll stop giving financial advice all together because only reason he's in finance is because he can scam people. In which case the status quo is bad for regular people.

If you're really afraid of him stopping being a financial adviser all together if he's required to be a fiduciary then you're admitting that the only reason he's doing it currently is because he can scam people with things not in their best interest. That's such a bogus argument in my book.

If the SEC were regulating this industry instead of the DOL, they would have required the fiduciary rule DECADES ago because the SEC knows its job is to keep people from getting scammed.

HeadedWest2029

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2017, 05:14:02 PM »
I don't understand. The DOL rule isn't saying don't get a financial advisor. It just says FA's have a fiduciary responsibility to sell products with the client's best interests at heart.  I.E., no exotic, hard to understand "investments" dripping in hidden fees.

travelawyer

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2017, 07:02:13 PM »
You're definitely wrong about the SEC because uniform fiduciary standard has been on their to do list for a long time but they haven't gotten around to it, which is why the DOL stepped in. Financial industry would love for SEC to handle the rule because there's nothing worse than having additional regulators (DOL) on top of the ones you already have (SEC, FINRA). The SEC has had a hard time rulemaking lately bc they are light on commissioners bc ones appointed by Obama were never confirmed by the senate.

And I didn't intend to make any value judgments re fiduciary standard. I think a fiduciary standard makes sense. But the DOL rule is several hundred pages of complicated implementation of that standard, and some of the risks associated with it could make providing advice to smaller investors not worth the risk (particularly litigation risk,say if someone tries to claim your weren't being a fiduciary because their investments didn't perform well).

My point was more that financial advisors can be valuable to many people (even if not to anyone with even cursory investment skills) and there's an argument as to whether the DOL rule puts access to advisors at risk.

czr

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2017, 08:02:20 PM »
Gosh it just never stops around here. 

I'm proud of my President.
LOL. Gosh, did you even listen to the podcast? Please share your thoughts on the DOL fiduciary rule and why Bogle's ideas and other guests for the fiduciary rule are so incorrect and how the negative comments on Scaramucci's ideas are a political bash against the President.

CheapScholar

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2017, 08:48:06 PM »
Gosh it just never stops around here. 

I'm proud of my President.
LOL. Gosh, did you even listen to the podcast? Please share your thoughts on the DOL fiduciary rule and why Bogle's ideas and other guests for the fiduciary rule are so incorrect and how the negative comments on Scaramucci's ideas are a political bash against the President.

I don't have time for the podcast but based on what I can tell from the posts and my recollection of FR and these issues from my law school days, I actually agree with you and most of the others on this thread.  My point wasn't that posting the comments about Scaramucci being wrong are bashing the president, but the line that since he is a Trump appointee is a "slimy worm."  I mean, by all means discuss the rule and the podcast, but I feel every thread on this board has anti-Trump sentiments buried in them these days.

Undecided

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2017, 09:17:14 PM »
I feel every thread on this board has anti-Trump sentiments buried in them these days.

As they should.

geekette

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2017, 10:17:46 PM »
Gosh it just never stops around here. 

I'm proud of my President.
Having followed this administration and all its lies, reversals, and disinformation, I must admit I'm shocked.

aspiringnomad

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2017, 10:25:34 PM »
Gosh it just never stops around here. 

I'm proud of my President.
LOL. Gosh, did you even listen to the podcast? Please share your thoughts on the DOL fiduciary rule and why Bogle's ideas and other guests for the fiduciary rule are so incorrect and how the negative comments on Scaramucci's ideas are a political bash against the President.

I don't have time for the podcast but based on what I can tell from the posts and my recollection of FR and these issues from my law school days, I actually agree with you and most of the others on this thread.  My point wasn't that posting the comments about Scaramucci being wrong are bashing the president, but the line that since he is a Trump appointee is a "slimy worm."  I mean, by all means discuss the rule and the podcast, but I feel every thread on this board has anti-Trump sentiments buried in them these days.

Lots of rational folks 'round these parts.

Malloy

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2017, 07:43:24 AM »
You're definitely wrong about the SEC because uniform fiduciary standard has been on their to do list for a long time but they haven't gotten around to it, which is why the DOL stepped in. Financial industry would love for SEC to handle the rule because there's nothing worse than having additional regulators (DOL) on top of the ones you already have (SEC, FINRA). The SEC has had a hard time rulemaking lately bc they are light on commissioners bc ones appointed by Obama were never confirmed by the senate.

And I didn't intend to make any value judgments re fiduciary standard. I think a fiduciary standard makes sense. But the DOL rule is several hundred pages of complicated implementation of that standard, and some of the risks associated with it could make providing advice to smaller investors not worth the risk (particularly litigation risk,say if someone tries to claim your weren't being a fiduciary because their investments didn't perform well).

My point was more that financial advisors can be valuable to many people (even if not to anyone with even cursory investment skills) and there's an argument as to whether the DOL rule puts access to advisors at risk.

Hmmm-I the type of investor who pursues risky strategies is often more educated about financial instruments and, just like you, is likely going to do that kind of stuff in the face of contrary advice.  In fact, investors like that would probably benefit from a sober voice or a raised eyebrow of a more conservative adviser. 

 I think that the downside risk of lack of advice more often looks like cash in a money market account,and I definitely push back against the idea that requiring advisers to have fiduciary duty puts  investors "at risk" by forcing people out of the field due to fear of litigation.
Since this is just speculation, I posit that, under a fiduciary standard, investment advisers will provide more standardized and valuable advice of higher quality. Some will get out of the game, but the field will be stripped of out and out charlatans, which is an overall win.

I also lol'ed at the proud of Trump comment.  Jeff Sessions-is that you? Welcome to MMM! It's smart to consider your finances when faced with a likely loss of employment.

Cowardly Toaster

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2017, 10:27:08 AM »
I feel every thread on this board has anti-Trump sentiments buried in them these days.

As they should.

I've mostly ignored the tantrums of Dems since President Trump won. It's just sore loser talk

nawhite

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2017, 10:28:50 AM »
Everyone just stop with the political comments in this thread please.

Discussion about the podcast or the fiduciary rule are very valuable but ALL of the political comments (on both sides) just degrade the level of discord here and antagonize people unnecessarily. Please just stop.

nawhite

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2017, 10:38:03 AM »
You're definitely wrong about the SEC because uniform fiduciary standard has been on their to do list for a long time but they haven't gotten around to it, which is why the DOL stepped in. Financial industry would love for SEC to handle the rule because there's nothing worse than having additional regulators (DOL) on top of the ones you already have (SEC, FINRA). The SEC has had a hard time rulemaking lately bc they are light on commissioners bc ones appointed by Obama were never confirmed by the senate.

And I didn't intend to make any value judgments re fiduciary standard. I think a fiduciary standard makes sense. But the DOL rule is several hundred pages of complicated implementation of that standard, and some of the risks associated with it could make providing advice to smaller investors not worth the risk (particularly litigation risk,say if someone tries to claim your weren't being a fiduciary because their investments didn't perform well).

My point was more that financial advisors can be valuable to many people (even if not to anyone with even cursory investment skills) and there's an argument as to whether the DOL rule puts access to advisors at risk.

Thanks for the insight about the SEC, I didn't know that.

As for the litigation risk, I'm curious how the rules are actually written because it sounds like they could make it pretty easy. Did you get a kickback from convincing a customer to invest in something? If yes, you're not a fiduciary (by definition because there are equivalent investments which don't need to pay out kickbacks to salesmen and will thus do better for the client) and broke the rule. If you didn't get a kickback, and weren't grossly incompetent (probably judged with some definition of diversification), you're covered from litigation risk. Are there rules currently protecting clients from the gross incompetence of their advisers?


A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2017, 12:16:39 PM »
Found the podcast interesting, though that's probably because I am already on the passive-trading bandwagon. Used to read Fama's blog pretty regularly, too.

Probably wouldn't be convinced by this podcast were I not, though....Freakonomics books seem to do a much better job at convincing me than the podcasts. Podcasts are more "hey, here's a fun story."

I didn't find the new comms directors comments at all ridiculous or offensive.

Also, I did some googlin', and 37% of G$'s workers are women, who I assume are not "dudebros." I assume the remaining portion of men are also not all dudebros.


Undecided

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2017, 12:37:12 PM »
I feel every thread on this board has anti-Trump sentiments buried in them these days.

As they should.

I've mostly ignored the tantrums of Dems since President Trump won. It's just sore loser talk

What about the anti-Trump sentiments that aren't tantrums? Do you ignore those too? What about the anti-Trump sentiments, tantrums or not, from Republicans? I'm a relatively neutral observer, and I expect to see a decent amount of "anti-person-or-party-in-power" sentiment on some forum or another, regardless of who's in charge. Expecting otherwise seems unrealistic for anyone not really committed to his or her own echo chamber.

travelawyer

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2017, 01:26:52 PM »
As for the litigation risk, I'm curious how the rules are actually written because it sounds like they could make it pretty easy. Did you get a kickback from convincing a customer to invest in something? If yes, you're not a fiduciary (by definition because there are equivalent investments which don't need to pay out kickbacks to salesmen and will thus do better for the client) and broke the rule. If you didn't get a kickback, and weren't grossly incompetent (probably judged with some definition of diversification), you're covered from litigation risk. Are there rules currently protecting clients from the gross incompetence of their advisers?

Pre-DOL rule brokers had a "suitability" standard, which means that their recommendations have to be suitable to the customer's characteristics/objectives (but kickbacks/conflict of interest ok as long as the investment is suitable).  Investment advisers have always had a fiduciary standard reflecting that you are hiring them to choose your investments for you.  A broker is more facilitating your making your own investment decisions which was why the lower standard.

I would venture to say the financial industry is in favor of a "uniform fiduciary standard" (for IAs, brokers, and both retirement and non-retirement accounts). You might ask why they didn't just voluntarily do it, and fair point, but to be competitive it can be hard to subject yourself to a higher standard than your competitors (although some do).  Things the industry would want to change about the current rule though: (1) SEC should write it--duplicative regulations and regulators don't help anyone except lawyers like me :); (2) it should apply equally to retirement and non-retirement accounts, and (3) there should not be a private right of action.

That last part goes to the litigation risk.  The DOL rule allows customers to sue their advisor for not meeting the fiduciary standard.  But whether or not you've met the standard is not that cut and dry, which creates an opportunity for plaintiffs lawyers to bring lots of lawsuits hoping that companies will settle to avoid litigation costs.  The other option is for the regulation to just be enforced by the regulator--not the courts.

Also, a few things about how one complies with the DOL rule:

1.  It's not about getting no kickbacks--it's about getting EQUAL kickbacks.  So I can't recommend to you mutual fund A if mutual fund B pays me less than A, but I could ask my mutual fund companies to create share classes with the same kickbacks, so that then I can recommend whichever one I want (this is happening).  I think this is generally a good thing, because with kickbacks being equal the advisor should theoretically recommend the "best" option.  But there are some unintended consequences, such as cheaper mutual funds having to raise their fees so that they can be "equal" or brokers kicking cheap investments off their platforms (Morgan Stanley has recently kicked Vanguard off their platform). 

2. Compliance involves a lot of paperwork.  For one, you have to get your customers to sign contracts, and this can be difficult for call center advisers (geared toward the less affluent).  This sounds like a small thing, but additional paperwork can really hit profit margins, making certain clients no longer worth the cost.

I'll say again, I'm not against a fiduciary standard at all, and I don't even like Scaramucci as a person haha, I just didn't think his comments were really outrageous and wanted to bring a different perspective on the DOL rule.  I think with most political policy issues, the more you understand it, the harder it is to be staunchly on one side or the other.



mckaylabaloney

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2017, 02:08:19 PM »
Well, at least this time around, Scaramucci managed to avoid comparing the fiduciary rule to Dred Scott. (http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20161018/FREE/161019925/trump-adviser-anthony-scaramucci-promises-to-repeal-dol-fiduciary)

HeadedWest2029

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2017, 11:19:13 AM »
I just didn't think his comments were really outrageous and wanted to bring a different perspective on the DOL rule.  I think with most political policy issues, the more you understand it, the harder it is to be staunchly on one side or the other.

I can get on board here.  I appreciate providing a counter argument or nuance to the discussion to avoid communal reinforcement.  I happen to disagree, but always appreciate people sticking their neck out with reasonable commentary. 

I think at the heart of the issue is compensation for FA's is tied to the wrong incentives.  Right now the sales side is overly profitable and advice is under compensated.  People pay an outrageous amount for AUM, expense ratios and commissions and the few hours of face to face or over the phone advice is an after thought.  The incentives should be flip-flopped with more FA's compensated with an hourly rate to discuss diversification, asset allocation, retirement planning, saving money, tax strategies, etc.  That's what people want and should pay for if they don't care about doing the research on their own. 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 11:29:51 AM by FourPercenter »

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2017, 12:42:45 PM »
I feel every thread on this board has anti-Trump sentiments buried in them these days.

As they should.

I've mostly ignored the tantrums of Dems since President Trump won. It's just sore loser talk

What about the anti-Trump sentiments that aren't tantrums? Do you ignore those too? What about the anti-Trump sentiments, tantrums or not, from Republicans? I'm a relatively neutral observer, and I expect to see a decent amount of "anti-person-or-party-in-power" sentiment on some forum or another, regardless of who's in charge. Expecting otherwise seems unrealistic for anyone not really committed to his or her own echo chamber.

There are tantrums and then there is outrage over the end of the Great Society and New Deal and regression of the USA to the age of Warren G. Harding. There's a difference.

effigy98

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2017, 01:07:36 PM »
Additionally, talk about inefficiency! A lot of these people could be putting their brains to use in a much more economically and morally efficient manner (e.g. scientific research).   

Exactly what I thought. There is so many inefficiencies in money moving, many of which only exist to let people skim your money off the top and get a paycheck. Low cost index funds and crypto currencies are going to driving these people out and they are nervous.

powskier

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2017, 01:11:32 AM »
Great podcast as always. Barry Ritholz is a great guy, his blog "The big picture" as well as his show on Bloomberg radio is always insightful. He is a rational guy which appears to be a rarity these days.

Don't worry about all the Trump supporters who get upset over justifiable criticism of their guy. They are very precious, very sensitive and very fragile snowflakes and must remain sheltered at all costs.

Reynold

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2017, 09:36:16 AM »
I think at the heart of the issue is compensation for FA's is tied to the wrong incentives.  Right now the sales side is overly profitable and advice is under compensated.  People pay an outrageous amount for AUM, expense ratios and commissions and the few hours of face to face or over the phone advice is an after thought.  The incentives should be flip-flopped with more FA's compensated with an hourly rate to discuss diversification, asset allocation, retirement planning, saving money, tax strategies, etc.  That's what people want and should pay for if they don't care about doing the research on their own.

That is nice in theory, but it is questionable whether people without many assets will want to pay a fixed fee for advice.  If I have $1000 to invest, and pay a one-time commission to invest it in a mutual fund with the current model, it is probably cheaper than if I have to pay an hourly rate for advice and a lower commission.  Especially if the investment adviser then finds ways to spend more time advising me to increase their take. 

Think of it this way.  Changing the incentives as you suggest would apply in theory for real estate agents as well, instead of a commission, charge for time spent showing people houses.  I don't think that would be very popular, though, because you could end up spending a lot of money and never get a house. 

I have read that the fiduciary standard will cause a lot of investment advisers to stop working with smaller clients, for combinations of liability reasons and inability to make enough money from them to make it worthwhile.  Those clients will then get no advice, instead of *some* of them under the current model potentially getting biased advice.  I'm not sure anyone has demonstrated that the former is preferable to the latter. 

47%MMM

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2017, 11:25:57 AM »

I have read that the fiduciary standard will cause a lot of investment advisers to stop working with smaller clients, for combinations of liability reasons and inability to make enough money from them to make it worthwhile.  Those clients will then get no advice, instead of *some* of them under the current model potentially getting biased advice.  I'm not sure anyone has demonstrated that the former is preferable to the latter.

Enter the library, free advice for all on all topics! Or the internet!

By eliminating biased predatory practices that fund FAs, there should be a reduction in supply of FAs and the compensation will do down. The remaining FAs will surely also turn down business as  if it is unprofitable, However, I would be very surprised if they would not at least point the person reaching out to them in the right direction: index funds, a recommended book, MMM's site. It's in the FAs best interest to offer some lifeline since this person may someday increase their wealth and need additional services which the could then pay the FA for.


WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2017, 12:03:30 PM »

I have read that the fiduciary standard will cause a lot of investment advisers to stop working with smaller clients, for combinations of liability reasons and inability to make enough money from them to make it worthwhile.  Those clients will then get no advice, instead of *some* of them under the current model potentially getting biased advice.  I'm not sure anyone has demonstrated that the former is preferable to the latter.

Enter the library, free advice for all on all topics! Or the internet!

By eliminating biased predatory practices that fund FAs, there should be a reduction in supply of FAs and the compensation will do down. The remaining FAs will surely also turn down business as  if it is unprofitable, However, I would be very surprised if they would not at least point the person reaching out to them in the right direction: index funds, a recommended book, MMM's site. It's in the FAs best interest to offer some lifeline since this person may someday increase their wealth and need additional services which the could then pay the FA for.

Honestly, no advice is preferable to bad advice. Because at least then the small time customer isn't throwing their money away.

CheapskateWife

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2017, 12:41:37 PM »
I didn't find the new comms directors comments at all ridiculous or offensive.

Agreed, not ridiculous or offensive, but definitely self-serving.  His argument that the fiduciary rule reduces options really didn't ring true as a bad thing for investors.  The idea that FA's can only recommend investments that are in the best interests of their customers means that the bad options (poorly performing funds) will dissolve.    And that, to me, sounds like a very good thing.  I'm thinking that our markets aren't exactly hurting for investment options.

But you see, a guy in his shoes makes money whether you win or lose...so he needs you to just stay on his team and his bread is buttered.  I'm a fan of the fiduciary rule, myself, but then I've already chosen the index fund route for myself.

slappy

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2017, 12:48:06 PM »

I have read that the fiduciary standard will cause a lot of investment advisers to stop working with smaller clients, for combinations of liability reasons and inability to make enough money from them to make it worthwhile.  Those clients will then get no advice, instead of *some* of them under the current model potentially getting biased advice.  I'm not sure anyone has demonstrated that the former is preferable to the latter.

Enter the library, free advice for all on all topics! Or the internet!

By eliminating biased predatory practices that fund FAs, there should be a reduction in supply of FAs and the compensation will do down. The remaining FAs will surely also turn down business as  if it is unprofitable, However, I would be very surprised if they would not at least point the person reaching out to them in the right direction: index funds, a recommended book, MMM's site. It's in the FAs best interest to offer some lifeline since this person may someday increase their wealth and need additional services which the could then pay the FA for.

Honestly, no advice is preferable to bad advice. Because at least then the small time customer isn't throwing their money away.

Unless you consider sitting in cash since 2008 throwing their money away. I know many people who never reinvested after 2008 because they were too scared. It seems like even a poor performing fund would be better than that.

SachaFiscal

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Re: Freakonomics: The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2017, 10:46:40 AM »
The follow-up podcast just came out yesterday. http://freakonomics.com/podcast/everything-always-wanted-know-money-afraid-ask/

It is probably pretty basic for this crowd but good to recommend to friends and family who may not pay as much attention to their finances.