"63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"

[Morning Glory]

I am old millennial/young gen x depending on which article you read. I have always lived in places where it is cheaper to buy than rent. I bought my first home in 2002 at age 20, a two bed/one bathroom stand alone house with garage and yard, and my monthly mortgage payment was less than my classmates we're paying for half a dorm room. I am currently on my third house, which is an old farm house with 18 acres of land.  House maintenance can be time consuming but it was never a problem for us until children came along, but I suppose renting and having to move a lot would also be a pain with little children. Whether it makes sense to rent or buy depends on prices in your region and how long you plan to live in the area.

[Slow2FIRE]

I must say, many of you purchased at quite young ages (imo)!

I first purchased at age 39.

[GuitarStv]

I must say, many of you purchased at quite young ages (imo)!

I first purchased at age 39.

I payed off the mortgage at 35.


:P

[Just Joe]

We're GenX but no regrets. House has appreciated, good neighborhood, quiet neighborhood aside from a few teenagers going through noisy phases, close to work in flyover country.

We both rented various places for ages and those places were never ideal. Usually noisy places with sub-optimal energy efficiency. I'm sure if we were to go townhouse or condo shopping today with money to do it with we could find something nicer.

Yes to the need to DIY some repairs to keep costs down.

We may look eventually for a little more ground to play on, similar size but different style home. Would love to have 300-500 sq ft more, and more acreage.

[brandon1827]

I must say, many of you purchased at quite young ages (imo)!

I first purchased at age 39.

I payed off the mortgage at 35.


:P

So jealous right now! Lol

My first home was purchased when I was 31...and I'll most likely be in my 50s before my current home is paid off

[dodojojo]

Funny, as a lifelong renter in my mid-40's, I'm feeling pangs of regrets over not buying.  I actually wouldn't mind renting forever except I now worry about having enough cash flow to pay rent when I finally do FI (no RE unfortunately).  I live in HCOL area and will likely retire to an extreme HCOL.  My concern is that I'll have to take out an annual amount that will push me into a higher tax bracket and of course during FI, I want to minimize taxes as much as possible.

So now, I wonder if I should buy and have a home paid off by the time I FI.  Of course, there will be costs to maintaining an owned home, but likely, it will be less than monthly rent once the mortgage is done.  That then sends me into to the edge of "well, if you had bought earlier..."  I feel like I've sunk too much into being a renter and now buying means it was a mistake to rent this long.

[Joe Schmo]

Our eastern WA market didn't experience the dramatic market swings. Meaning that a 170 starter home fell to 145. I bought in 2009, my wife bought in 2011...we sold in 2015 and 2018 and built...no ragerets!!

[mm1970]

Condos are definitely tempting to me.  While I like the idea of the extra space in a single family home, and yard, room to breathe, etc - in reality, our lifestyle is very much home bound.   Even though we live in a place that allows you to be outdoors pretty much year round.  So a lower maintenance condo with a garage and decent little patio would be great.

I sometimes regret the house we bought.  We bought on the run up, but not the peak. The house is at least worth more now than what we paid for it, but we've put at least $60k into improvements.  And it's still a 2BR, 1 BA, 1100 sf house with no garage.  It's in a crappy school district, on a busy street where people speed and run the stop sign across the street.

But I love my neighborhood.  I have fantastic neighbors.  A good tribe.  My 'hood isn't very walkable but my house is, quite literally, 2 blocks from a big park with trails, and a <2 mile walk to the beach or my favorite gym or downtown.  It's a single story and will literally be perfect in retirement. 

(But with 2 boys, the oldest almost a teen...I'd REALLY like a 2nd bathroom.)

I'm an X-er and we bought when we were in our mid 30s.

[Imma]

Well, you just fall into the 37% without regrets ;-)

I guess I expected mustachians to have a lower than average % of regrets since we are super conscious decision makers. But it seems many people bought before becoming mustachian.

@dodojojo When I bought my house my city was pretty cheap, but really up and coming. Since I bought 4 years ago, house prices are up at least 35% and we're the second biggest urban area in the country.

What I like about buying is that your mortgage costs are set in stone for the future, while rents go up every year (and, unlike house prices, in my area rents never go down). It's actually a nice buffer against inflation. My parents owned the same home for almost 20 years and they had a 30-year mortgage. When they bought the house it was quite expensive for them, by the time they sold the mortgage was literally as much as the cable TV + internet bill. Inflation killed their mortgage payment. If you are in a very HCOL area that you expect to stay popular/expensive, then I can imagine buying makes sense because of that.

Maintenance is also quite a bit cheaper than I expected. The 1% value of your house figure seems to be correct, but that includes the maintenance a renter needs to do as well (like wallpaper, painting, new floors, curtains, improving the garden) . Of course this very much depends on the house you buy + it's location but that's a choice.

[GuitarStv]

A 2000 square foot bungalow in Manhattan is going to have similar maintenance fees as a 2000 square foot bungalow in a small town in Idaho, but will cost ten or twenty times more to purchase.

1% costs for maintenance is ridiculous.  House prices have nothing to do with their cost of maintenance.

[2Birds1Stone]

Happy renter here, while I understand there are pros to home ownership, renting is still pretty amazing in many places.

[jps]

Our eastern WA market didn't experience the dramatic market swings. Meaning that a 170 starter home fell to 145. I bought in 2009, my wife bought in 2011...we sold in 2015 and 2018 and built...no ragerets!!

Hey @Joe Schmo I'm in Eastern WA too!

[I'm a red panda]

I'm a millenial. I regret not pushing harder to get a house with a screened porch.

We should have spent more.

(We also lost money on our first house due to the market crash. But it happens. Not a huge deal. It provided us somewhere to live. It wasn't meant as an investment.)

[Joe Schmo]

Our eastern WA market didn't experience the dramatic market swings. Meaning that a 170 starter home fell to 145. I bought in 2009, my wife bought in 2011...we sold in 2015 and 2018 and built...no ragerets!!

Hey @Joe Schmo I'm in Eastern WA too!

Heck yeah!! Where it's still dirt cheap to live and people still bitch about taxes and home prices!!

[Radagast]

Yup, my house (investment grade duplex) generates $5,000 annually net of all expenses, on a $44,000 upfront cost, and I'd say it was just a "meh" decision. On the one hand its returns match the stock market since I bought it compared to that cashflow equivalent if I rented, on the other the house was a lot lot more work than the market would have been. But then the house was a lot nicer to live in, especially after I installed a kick ass DIY kitchen. So no regrets, but not a slam dunk either, even though I thought it was when I purchased. And if a house on a quiet leafy street 4 minutes walk from work that reduces my expenses by $5k annually is not a slam dunk, it is hard to imagine what house would be.

[Just Joe]

A 2000 square foot bungalow in Manhattan is going to have similar maintenance fees as a 2000 square foot bungalow in a small town in Idaho, but will cost ten or twenty times more to purchase.

1% costs for maintenance is ridiculous.  House prices have nothing to do with their cost of maintenance.

Because I honestly don't know - I imagine the cost of the faucet would be similar but wouldn't the cost of renovations be higher due to NYC vs flyover country? Permits and licenses? Cost to renovate an apartment in a 10 story building vs a brick rancher house in small town, USA?

[GuitarStv]

A 2000 square foot bungalow in Manhattan is going to have similar maintenance fees as a 2000 square foot bungalow in a small town in Idaho, but will cost ten or twenty times more to purchase.

1% costs for maintenance is ridiculous.  House prices have nothing to do with their cost of maintenance.

Because I honestly don't know - I imagine the cost of the faucet would be similar but wouldn't the cost of renovations be higher due to NYC vs flyover country? Permits and licenses? Cost to renovate an apartment in a 10 story building vs a brick rancher house in small town, USA?

Permits and licences might be more expensive in cities, but we were talking about maintenance . . . not rebuilding.  You typically don't need a license to replace a dishwasher, fix a leaky roof, swap out the windows, install/remove carpet, light fixtures, etc.

If we're comparing totally different types of living spaces, yes . . . I'd expect that renovations would cost different amounts.  But it would be very surprising to me if maintenance on the same type of home in a big city vs a really small city were significantly different.  Usually homes cost more or less because of their location . . . not because the home or building materials are intrinsically more valuable.

The idea that 1% of the value of your home is necessary for maintenance is similar to the idea that you need 70% of your income in order to retire.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

A 2000 square foot bungalow in Manhattan is going to have similar maintenance fees as a 2000 square foot bungalow in a small town in Idaho, but will cost ten or twenty times more to purchase.

1% costs for maintenance is ridiculous.  House prices have nothing to do with their cost of maintenance.

Because I honestly don't know - I imagine the cost of the faucet would be similar but wouldn't the cost of renovations be higher due to NYC vs flyover country? Permits and licenses? Cost to renovate an apartment in a 10 story building vs a brick rancher house in small town, USA?

Permits and licences might be more expensive in cities, but we were talking about maintenance . . . not rebuilding.  You typically don't need a license to replace a dishwasher, fix a leaky roof, swap out the windows, install/remove carpet, light fixtures, etc.

If we're comparing totally different types of living spaces, yes . . . I'd expect that renovations would cost different amounts.  But it would be very surprising to me if maintenance on the same type of home in a big city vs a really small city were significantly different.  Usually homes cost more or less because of their location . . . not because the home or building materials are intrinsically more valuable.

The idea that 1% of the value of your home is necessary for maintenance is similar to the idea that you need 70% of your income in order to retire.

I agree - it's a reasonable rule-of-thumb for an average person, but clearly not an incontrovertible law of the universe.

[MrsDinero]

Every spring when it is time to do our annual spring clean up, this Gen-Xer regrets buying a home. 

[brandon1827]

Permits and licences might be more expensive in cities, but we were talking about maintenance . . . not rebuilding.  You typically don't need a license to replace a dishwasher, fix a leaky roof, swap out the windows, install/remove carpet, light fixtures, etc.

If we're comparing totally different types of living spaces, yes . . . I'd expect that renovations would cost different amounts.  But it would be very surprising to me if maintenance on the same type of home in a big city vs a really small city were significantly different.  Usually homes cost more or less because of their location . . . not because the home or building materials are intrinsically more valuable.

The idea that 1% of the value of your home is necessary for maintenance is similar to the idea that you need 70% of your income in order to retire.

I haven't done any research whatsoever on this, so I'm completely showing my ignorance here...but I just assumed goods and services (i.e. building materials, windows, light fixtures, etc.) would naturally cost more in a place like New York City as opposed to my local Lowe's or Home Depot here in backwoods Tennessee. Is that not the case? Should I assume that I would pay the same amount for these items regardless of where I buy them geographically speaking?

[pdxbator]

I'm wondering if the popularity of HGTV and similar have given millennials a false sense of home ownership. These shows all have properties that are getting major makeovers with open layouts, large kitchens, double sink bathrooms, wood floors throughout. When I bought my house in my 20s everything was dated and ugly. It took me nearly 20 years to get the kitchen remodeled. Buying a house you should expect to be in it for the long haul (unless you have boatloads of cash to get things remodeled). You have to just be satisfied with what you have, and not keep wishing for that open concept design.

Even now there are issues with my house, but I'm glad I own rather than rent. Rents keep rising around here at an exorbitant rate while I keep paying the same.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I'm wondering if the popularity of HGTV and similar have given millennials a false sense of home ownership. These shows all have properties that are getting major makeovers with open layouts, large kitchens, double sink bathrooms, wood floors throughout. When I bought my house in my 20s everything was dated and ugly. It took me nearly 20 years to get the kitchen remodeled. Buying a house you should expect to be in it for the long haul (unless you have boatloads of cash to get things remodeled). You have to just be satisfied with what you have, and not keep wishing for that open concept design.

Even now there are issues with my house, but I'm glad I own rather than rent. Rents keep rising around here at an exorbitant rate while I keep paying the same.

Yes. Without a doubt, HGTV skewed my perception of the housing market, but maybe not exactly in the way that you imagine. I thought that I could buy a house that needed some work, fix it up in my spare time, and then sell it for a healthy profit after a couple years' worth of "sweat equity" as they like to call it. Lather, rinse, repeat, and I imagined myself owning a home mortgage-free by the time I was 30.

Instead, I bought a house in 2008 for $126K, put $15K cash and two years worth of "sweat equity" into it, and then gave it back to the bank as a deed-in-lieu after three tortured years of absentee ownership between 2010 and 2013. The bank sold it in 2014 for $75K.

The experience didn't sour me on home ownership (I hate renting), but it did convince me that the fix-and-flip philosophy was a lot riskier than the TV shows liked to let on. We bought our current home in 2017 with every intention of it being our last home. Every dime that I spend on it and every hour that I work on it is for the benefit of me and my family with no consideration of what some imaginary generic homebuyer might like.

[GuitarStv]

Permits and licences might be more expensive in cities, but we were talking about maintenance . . . not rebuilding.  You typically don't need a license to replace a dishwasher, fix a leaky roof, swap out the windows, install/remove carpet, light fixtures, etc.

If we're comparing totally different types of living spaces, yes . . . I'd expect that renovations would cost different amounts.  But it would be very surprising to me if maintenance on the same type of home in a big city vs a really small city were significantly different.  Usually homes cost more or less because of their location . . . not because the home or building materials are intrinsically more valuable.

The idea that 1% of the value of your home is necessary for maintenance is similar to the idea that you need 70% of your income in order to retire.

I haven't done any research whatsoever on this, so I'm completely showing my ignorance here...but I just assumed goods and services (i.e. building materials, windows, light fixtures, etc.) would naturally cost more in a place like New York City as opposed to my local Lowe's or Home Depot here in backwoods Tennessee. Is that not the case? Should I assume that I would pay the same amount for these items regardless of where I buy them geographically speaking?

It depends.

I grew up in a very isolated small town where houses were super cheap.  The local hardware store charged whatever they wanted for stuff . . . which meant that it was usually pretty expensive to buy from there, but your only other options were to drive to the next nearest town (more than an hour away) and bring back building materials, or to order something to be shipped to you from a different town (expensive).

I currently live in a big city.  I've got two different big box home improvement stores within cycling distance.  I can bike there and rent a truck for next to nothing to bring back building materials.  If I don't want to do that, it's possible for me to go to one of several stores that specialse in re-used building materials for very cheap prices.  Or I can hit up a huge selection of stuff on craigslist.

From my point of view, it's much cheaper to get building supplies and materials in the city . . . even though my house costs more than 20 times what it would in the small town.

[brandon1827]

It depends.

I grew up in a very isolated small town where houses were super cheap.  The local hardware store charged whatever they wanted for stuff . . . which meant that it was usually pretty expensive to buy from there, but your only other options were to drive to the next nearest town (more than an hour away) and bring back building materials, or to order something to be shipped to you from a different town (expensive).

I currently live in a big city.  I've got two different big box home improvement stores within cycling distance.  I can bike there and rent a truck for next to nothing to bring back building materials.  If I don't want to do that, it's possible for me to go to one of several stores that specialse in re-used building materials for very cheap prices.  Or I can hit up a huge selection of stuff on craigslist.

From my point of view, it's much cheaper to get building supplies and materials in the city . . . even though my house costs more than 20 times what it would in the small town.

I'm with you. I think the opposite would hold for me regarding my house. We built in 2015-2016 and doing just some basic searching for what a square-foot costs here versus elsewhere, I easily would've spent up to 3 times more if my house was built in/close to a large city. So I was able to build a pretty large home here for significantly less money than it would've cost me in say California for instance. If I could pick my home up and drop it somewhere around San Francisco, I could most likely sell it and retire off of the profits.

I live in a moderately sized area, so there are several options for building materials within an easy driving distance. I know location is a huge determinant regarding home price, but I also just assumed that location also played a huge role in the costs of materials; which may not be the case. I may be able to buy a 2x4 for the same price in California as I can in Tennessee...but I never thought that was the case. I have always assumed that 2x4 would be much more expensive there versus here...but that could be that HGTV effect again.

[Jenny Wren]

I'm a young Xer but I fit more of the millennial tropes, and our house is my biggest life regret. It wasn't my goal or dream that I bought into.

We bought at the bottom of the market in 2009, which didn't bottom out as much in eastern WA as it did elsewhere, but it did mean that within 2 years our house was worth quite a bit more than we paid.

BUT...

1) We bought in the wrong part of the state. We never had any intention of living in Eastern WA for as long as we have. It's not a good fit for us culturally, although the area has been improving (and local grumbling increasing) in the past two years. It's also way too close to my family. (Granted, they moved to WA after we bought, but I should have seen it coming.) We haven't been miserable, per se, but we haven't been happy in this area.

2) The house was a killer deal, but only for the right people. The payment is higher than we should have taken on. It's old and needs constant maintenance (although no major problems), too big for our needs, and too much in a neighborhood without nearby natural areas.

3) We hate, hate, hate yard work. We keep it mowed and reasonably green, and this is a much despised chore. It's nowhere near the level of our neighbor's yards. I don't care, I have a life to live. If the neighbor's have an issue, they can start paying my mortgage.

4) And...neighbor's always have issues. Always. "Could you maybe do this or that? Can we block your driveway? Could you have your kids keep it down when they play outside? Do you mind if we host a Christian rock concert in our backyard at 9:00 am on a Sunday? Yes? Well, we're going to do it anyway and you can't complain because half the neighborhood belongs to the same cult-like mega-church, and the police department is run by a good 'ol boy that won't even enforce state laws if he disagrees with them, let alone local codes!"

We're in the process of selling. We're likely going to profit quite a bit as houses have more than doubled in value in our area from the price we paid, so financially it wasn't really a mistake. We may buy again at some point, but it won't be a traditional house in a traditional neighborhood, nor will we have a mortgage. Could be vanlife, tinyhomelife, boatlife, yurtlife, cabinlife, RVlife, condolife or any one of the many #life options available ;P

Life quality-wise, though, it was a huge mistake. We bought someone else's American dream and pissed away the last 10 years of our lives. I went from being the type of person that would voluntarily live out of my car so I could explore to the type that spent weekends figuring out whether we needed a radon detector or new attic insulation. Yuck. Live and learn. At least we figured it out before it was too late.

[GuitarStv]

Buying in the wrong area is an easy enough mistake to make.  Things change.

I don't really understand people who buy a home with a yard and then are shocked at the need to do yard work though.  Houses require work.  How the hell were you raised?  My job from the time I turned about 10 was to mow the lawn, trim the hedges, shovel the driveway, weed the garden, clean various rooms of the house and chop firewood into kindling (our home was heated by wood stove).  What kind of crazy childhood experience would lead one to believe that a house requires no work?  How many servants and maids were employed in your home?

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Buying in the wrong area is an easy enough mistake to make.  Things change.

I don't really understand people who buy a home with a yard and then are shocked at the need to do yard work though.  Houses require work.  How the hell were you raised?  My job from the time I turned about 10 was to mow the lawn, trim the hedges, shovel the driveway, weed the garden, clean various rooms of the house and chop firewood into kindling (our home was heated by wood stove).  What kind of crazy childhood experience would lead one to believe that a house requires no work?  How many servants and maids were employed in your home?

Yeah, this is exactly how I feel when I hear people complaining about house/yard work. I grew up on a 26-acre farm. We had cows, sheep, pigs, horses, dogs, and cats that all needed to be watered and fed daily. We had 2 acres of grass to mow weekly. We had firewood to cut to keep our house warm in the winter, and a 1/2 garden to maintain throughout the summer. I can't help but roll my eyes when people complain about mowing 1000 square feet of grass or cleaning out the gutters twice a year. Given my upbringing, it seems positively liberating to only have 11 chickens and one dog, less than 1/4 acre of grass to mow, and only a 1600 square foot vegetable garden. It'll be even easier when the kids are old enough to help with the chores. I guess I still won't have time for Sunday brunch, so I should probably feel bad about my life.

[mm1970]

Buying in the wrong area is an easy enough mistake to make.  Things change.

I don't really understand people who buy a home with a yard and then are shocked at the need to do yard work though.  Houses require work.  How the hell were you raised?  My job from the time I turned about 10 was to mow the lawn, trim the hedges, shovel the driveway, weed the garden, clean various rooms of the house and chop firewood into kindling (our home was heated by wood stove).  What kind of crazy childhood experience would lead one to believe that a house requires no work?  How many servants and maids were employed in your home?

luckily we have no yard, just dirt.

We had an acre as kids, but there were 7 kids of varying ages.  I remember mowing the lawn at around age 10 or 11, and my brother/sisters/me all had to take turns to get the whole thing done.

Don't know what it was like when we were babies, but I can't see getting my 6 year old to mow the lawn.

OTOH, I never learned to cook, and except for putting away dishes and dusting, I didn't clean much either.

[Jenny Wren]

Buying in the wrong area is an easy enough mistake to make.  Things change.

I don't really understand people who buy a home with a yard and then are shocked at the need to do yard work though.  Houses require work.  How the hell were you raised?  My job from the time I turned about 10 was to mow the lawn, trim the hedges, shovel the driveway, weed the garden, clean various rooms of the house and chop firewood into kindling (our home was heated by wood stove).  What kind of crazy childhood experience would lead one to believe that a house requires no work?  How many servants and maids were employed in your home?

Wow, what a narrow view. My upbringing was lower class and much later, lower middle class. Our current income is considered below the poverty line, and no, we aren't FI. We weren't rich enough to have a garden, wood stoves were unnecessary in my area of the south and would be weird in our very large city anyway, snow was nearly unheard of, and hedges were for fancy people and office buildings. If you grow up in rentals you don't get exposed to things like that, it's covered by property management. By the time my parents owned a house, I was a junior in high school with an outside job and my household chores were typical of those for girls raised by southern city parents -- basic cooking and cleaning, not mowing or blowing in insulation. My only view of home ownership stemmed from my parents spending the first 17 years of my life aspiring to it as though it was the only reason for existing (even if it meant working stupid long hours, going without, and never even getting to know their kids), and then from seeing sitcom families living the high-life in their idealized homes. All I learned about home ownership from my childhood is you weren't worthy or a grown-up until you ticked that box, not whether or not I would enjoy yard work.

I'm not fond of cooking and laundry, either, but at least I reap benefits that I care about from those tasks. Maintaining a family home, on the other hand, doesn't give a sufficient ROI for our personal priorities for us to continue down that path. Now that I am older and wiser, I don't see the point of a monoculture lawn or a house that has to be my sole hobby because it eats up my weekends. I want a home that serves me and my family, not a home that needs me to serve it. If that makes me entitled or elitist, so be it.

Perhaps I struck a nerve and my personal hatred of yard and home upkeep feels like judgement on those that do enjoy it? Different strokes, and all. These are just my reasons. You dig that stuff, then that's awesome! You would probably hate some of the stuff I think is great, and that's cool, too!

[EngagedToFIRE]

How long have you owned the home? I would assume something as costly and as serious as foundation issues should have been spotted during an inspection prior to closing. I mean, that's why you pay to have the inspection done. If they missed it, that's pretty terrible.

Going on 7 years. The issues got bad around year 4, the area had gone through a multi-year drought followed by an insanely wet couple seasons, leading to a very fast shift in the clay. The house had actually already had piers installed on about half of the outer walls, and those piers are insured. Unfortunately, it was the parts of the house not previously worked on that moved. At this point it should be damn stable, since there are piers under 80% of the perimeter and inside the house in some areas. It didn't help that all the shifting busted a fitting on our sewage line, so we had to pay to have that repaired once the foundation was fixed.

7 years is good.  Generally speaking, the longer you stay, the cheaper it gets.  Owning your house is a major hedge against inflation.  Usually on multiple fronts.  Where we are, even real estate taxes are limited by how much they can increase yearly.  So you have fixed housing and minimally rising property taxes.  Which is why you have so much equity in the house... it sounds like it's a big win for you, no?  As rents go up and up, your costs remain relatively steady.  Renting is often better short term, but long term, owning is way better.  7 years is already a long time.  If the house is too big, then you have room to grow in to it, too.  Maybe stick around a lot longer and reap the rewards.

[GuitarStv]

Buying in the wrong area is an easy enough mistake to make.  Things change.

I don't really understand people who buy a home with a yard and then are shocked at the need to do yard work though.  Houses require work.  How the hell were you raised?  My job from the time I turned about 10 was to mow the lawn, trim the hedges, shovel the driveway, weed the garden, clean various rooms of the house and chop firewood into kindling (our home was heated by wood stove).  What kind of crazy childhood experience would lead one to believe that a house requires no work?  How many servants and maids were employed in your home?

Wow, what a narrow view. My upbringing was lower class and much later, lower middle class. Our current income is considered below the poverty line, and no, we aren't FI. We weren't rich enough to have a garden, wood stoves were unnecessary in my area of the south and would be weird in our very large city anyway, snow was nearly unheard of, and hedges were for fancy people and office buildings. If you grow up in rentals you don't get exposed to things like that, it's covered by property management. By the time my parents owned a house, I was a junior in high school with an outside job and my household chores were typical of those for girls raised by southern city parents -- basic cooking and cleaning, not mowing or blowing in insulation. My only view of home ownership stemmed from my parents spending the first 17 years of my life aspiring to it as though it was the only reason for existing (even if it meant working stupid long hours, going without, and never even getting to know their kids), and then from seeing sitcom families living the high-life in their idealized homes. All I learned about home ownership from my childhood is you weren't worthy or a grown-up until you ticked that box, not whether or not I would enjoy yard work.

I'm not fond of cooking and laundry, either, but at least I reap benefits that I care about from those tasks. Maintaining a family home, on the other hand, doesn't give a sufficient ROI for our personal priorities for us to continue down that path. Now that I am older and wiser, I don't see the point of a monoculture lawn or a house that has to be my sole hobby because it eats up my weekends. I want a home that serves me and my family, not a home that needs me to serve it. If that makes me entitled or elitist, so be it.

Perhaps I struck a nerve and my personal hatred of yard and home upkeep feels like judgement on those that do enjoy it? Different strokes, and all. These are just my reasons. You dig that stuff, then that's awesome! You would probably hate some of the stuff I think is great, and that's cool, too!

FWIW, I tolerate yard work . . . don't really like it.  It's similar to any other chore.  I was just confused as to how you could buy a house without knowing that it was necessary.  Never having lived in a home that was owned hadn't occurred to me to be honest.  I grew up in a pretty poor town of about a thousand people off in the sticks.  Everyone owned their house because you could buy for very little money since the land was worth next to nothing (my parents bought our house outright for 38 grand in the early 90s), and there weren't too many landlords in town anyway (not much demand) so renting would be kinda tricky.

[I'm a red panda]

Buying in the wrong area is an easy enough mistake to make.  Things change.

I don't really understand people who buy a home with a yard and then are shocked at the need to do yard work though.  Houses require work.  How the hell were you raised?  My job from the time I turned about 10 was to mow the lawn, trim the hedges, shovel the driveway, weed the garden, clean various rooms of the house and chop firewood into kindling (our home was heated by wood stove).  What kind of crazy childhood experience would lead one to believe that a house requires no work?  How many servants and maids were employed in your home?

What kind of crazy childhood experience? How about one without a lawn, hedges, driveway, or garden?

Certainly I had a limited view of how much work shoveling snow is, having never done it in Texas.  Thankfully our first house was not bought on a corner lot, but I also learned to NOT buy a corner lot when I bought my next house; as the amount of sidewalk to chip ice and shovel snow from is massive compared to a mid street house.  I also didn't know when I bought the house that homeowners were responsible for replacing city-owned sidewalk. (And someone on a corner lot is taking on a much larger liability for this cost!).

I've never weeded before. We've never had gardens.

[mizzourah2006]

As a millennial I could certainly see this. We were often pressured to buy as early as possible "renting is just throwing away money, build equity instead....". If you count graduating from college I lived in 5 different cities across 2990 miles (if you add up the distance between the current to the next) from the time I was 23 to the time I was 29. We almost bought a place in the 3rd city, would have been a horrible decision, luckily the seller couldn't sell to us at the price we had agreed upon because he was further under water than he thought, so we ended up pulling out, or else I'm fairly certain we would have been one of the 63% as well. I'd say I don't regret our current home purchase, but we didn't buy until I was almost 30 and have lived in it for almost 7 years at this point, with no plans to move as my work is 100% remote at this point.

So we were told to buy, but also happen to almost certainly be the most mobile generation as far as moving to new cities for work, etc. Those two behaviors aren't exactly congruent with one another.

[Jenny Wren]

FWIW, I tolerate yard work . . . don't really like it.  It's similar to any other chore.  I was just confused as to how you could buy a house without knowing that it was necessary.  Never having lived in a home that was owned hadn't occurred to me to be honest.  I grew up in a pretty poor town of about a thousand people off in the sticks.  Everyone owned their house because you could buy for very little money since the land was worth next to nothing (my parents bought our house outright for 38 grand in the early 90s), and there weren't too many landlords in town anyway (not much demand) so renting would be kinda tricky.

No worries! Yeah, I know people that love yard work and look forward to spending their weekends banging away at the house, and many more people that don't like it but also don't really mind it. I always assumed I would fall into one or the other groups because we love the outdoors and I love plants, so while we were wise enough to avoid homes with super high-maintenance landscaping, we still chose poorly. What I learned is I love the outdoors and plants when it is the mountain/ocean/lake/wilderness/etc variety, but not so much when I am trying to tame it to neighborhood standards :) We're working to build a leanfire/baristafi lifestyle around our various backcountry pursuits, so any type of high maintenance home is out, unless we count patching tents.

The kids do the yard work for pocket money right now, but one is moving out this summer and the other isn't far behind, so it's time to move on.

[bcbaseballman]

I guess I am one of the 37%. I bought my first house in 2011 when I was 22 years old. I was 2,500sqft 4 bed 3 bath home that needed a good amount of remodel work. I did all the work myself  except for installing the new carpet.

Then we decided to have our first child and after he was born we decided we didn't want to have to deal with all the steps in the house and trying to baby proof it all. so we sold and made a good profit on it and bought our current house. A 1,100sqft 3 bed 2 bath home in 2015. this home did not need as much remodel  work as the first but just some updates and bring it to our tastes.

I enjoy all the work that goes into our house maybe that is was it different. this springs projects are to finish off some garden beds that I did not quite get finished in the fall and running some new electric so install a few more outlets where we really need them.

We are just about ready to welcome our 3rd child into this world. So happy to have a place that we can call our home and our children are growing up in. Like to have the choice of being able to build a treehouse in the backyard for the kids and not having to worry about asking someone else for permission.

[StarBright]

What kind of crazy childhood experience? How about one without a lawn, hedges, driveway, or garden?

Certainly I had a limited view of how much work shoveling snow is, having never done it in Texas.  Thankfully our first house was not bought on a corner lot, but I also learned to NOT buy a corner lot when I bought my next house; as the amount of sidewalk to chip ice and shovel snow from is massive compared to a mid street house. I also didn't know when I bought the house that homeowners were responsible for replacing city-owned sidewalk. (And someone on a corner lot is taking on a much larger liability for this cost!).

I've never weeded before. We've never had gardens.

We never even thought of the bolded when we bought our current house but this winter has been rough! It has been snowy and polar vortexy! Our town, while lovely, is also super zealous about things like shoveled sidewalks and they'll give you a notice after 48 hours. We can't even hire people to shovel because they aren't going out in the cold weather :(.

My DH was out of town for each of our snow storms so I've been getting up at 4am to shovel before the kids wake up for the day! We'll probably buy a snow blower when they get marked down this spring.

On another note - I adore trees. Our first house had a gorgeous, tree covered lot. NEVER AGAIN! We spent hours picking up sticks before we mowed, had branches fall through roof, etc.

You live, ya learn!

[Mississippi Mudstache]

On another note - I adore trees. Our first house had a gorgeous, tree covered lot. NEVER AGAIN! We spent hours picking up sticks before we mowed, had branches fall through roof, etc.

You live, ya learn!

You learned the wrong lesson. We live in a forest so we don't have a lawn to mow or sidewalk to shovel :)

[jpdx]

No regrets as of yet, but I have learned that homeownership doesn't make sense for everybody. The maintenance and upkeep is significant enough that you should only buy a house if you plan to to tackle many of the repairs and chores yourself. Some people are handy, others are willing to learn, and some just aren't. If you're not willing to do the work, and you're not rich enough to hire out every task, homeownership might not make sense for you.

[Imma]

Permits and licences might be more expensive in cities, but we were talking about maintenance . . . not rebuilding.  You typically don't need a license to replace a dishwasher, fix a leaky roof, swap out the windows, install/remove carpet, light fixtures, etc.

If we're comparing totally different types of living spaces, yes . . . I'd expect that renovations would cost different amounts.  But it would be very surprising to me if maintenance on the same type of home in a big city vs a really small city were significantly different.  Usually homes cost more or less because of their location . . . not because the home or building materials are intrinsically more valuable.

The idea that 1% of the value of your home is necessary for maintenance is similar to the idea that you need 70% of your income in order to retire.

I haven't done any research whatsoever on this, so I'm completely showing my ignorance here...but I just assumed goods and services (i.e. building materials, windows, light fixtures, etc.) would naturally cost more in a place like New York City as opposed to my local Lowe's or Home Depot here in backwoods Tennessee. Is that not the case? Should I assume that I would pay the same amount for these items regardless of where I buy them geographically speaking?

I can only say that after several years of detailed tracking of expenses in a booming housing market, the old 1% rule holds true for us. Maintenance expenses go up by about 10% a year, just like our home value. I am not actively looking to spend 1% of our home value every year.

I think certain items are certainly more expensive in very urban areas, others are cheaper. For me it's hard to find gardening supplies in the city for a reasonable price - I grew up in the countryside where those are cheap. On the other hand, we have 4 large DIY stores in a row, just around the corner. There's a fierce competition that keeps prices of building supplies low. You don't have that kind of competition in rural areas.

But the biggest part of the cost of home maintenance are labour costs and during a property boom, those guys can get a lot of work so their prices go up. I think the hourly wage of a skilled tradesman is probably up 50% from 5 years ago. Of course, like a real mustachian I try to DIY as much as I can, but certain work I'd rather hire out. Anything to do with electricity, or things I don't have the physical strength or the expensive tools for.

Of course an old school rule of thumb is just that: it's a guideline for average people in an average situation, not a law.

I am surprised to see so many people associate home ownership with gardening. Renters don't garden over there? Does the landlord do it or hire someone to do it? In my country that would be very unusual. My grandparents were lifelong renters and they had one of the most beautiful gardens I've ever seen.

I honestly don't think the maintenance of a simple garden should be that much work. If you don't like it, make sure you buy a smaller lot. It's a lot of work to create a garden from scratch (we are doing that, we bought a place with a backyard no one had touched for years) but once it's there, maintenance isn't that bad. Hedges need to be trimmed once a year, grass needs to be mowed once a month, in flowerbeds you can put perennials. You can tile a part of the garden and just put some potted plants there. Having a time consuming garden is a choice.

[Linea_Norway]

On another note - I adore trees. Our first house had a gorgeous, tree covered lot. NEVER AGAIN! We spent hours picking up sticks before we mowed, had branches fall through roof, etc.

You live, ya learn!

You learned the wrong lesson. We live in a forest so we don't have a lawn to mow or sidewalk to shovel :)

+1. We have a forest patch without grass. Low maintenance and visits of squirrels.

[StarBright]

On another note - I adore trees. Our first house had a gorgeous, tree covered lot. NEVER AGAIN! We spent hours picking up sticks before we mowed, had branches fall through roof, etc.

You live, ya learn!

You learned the wrong lesson. We live in a forest so we don't have a lawn to mow or sidewalk to shovel :)

LOL - we actually were in a neighborhood with an HOA so we HAD to mow a lawn and there weren't quite enough trees to kill off grass. We did learn the lesson not to buy in an neighborhood with a picky HOA though :)

[Mississippi Mudstache]

On another note - I adore trees. Our first house had a gorgeous, tree covered lot. NEVER AGAIN! We spent hours picking up sticks before we mowed, had branches fall through roof, etc.

You live, ya learn!

You learned the wrong lesson. We live in a forest so we don't have a lawn to mow or sidewalk to shovel :)

LOL - we actually were in a neighborhood with an HOA so we HAD to mow a lawn and there weren't quite enough trees to kill off grass. We did learn the lesson not to buy in an neighborhood with a picky HOA though :)

Now that's something we can agree on!

[GuitarStv]

+1. We have a forest patch without grass. Low maintenance and visits of squirrels.

We've got plenty of tree-rats to deal with here too, even without significant forest cover.  :P

[zolotiyeruki]

I am surprised to see so many people associate home ownership with gardening. Renters don't garden over there? Does the landlord do it or hire someone to do it? In my country that would be very unusual. My grandparents were lifelong renters and they had one of the most beautiful gardens I've ever seen.

I think people are generalizing in some ways--homeownership is more commonly associated with detached, single-family homes, while renting is associated with apartments in a more urban setting, where you won't have the yard work.  It's not a rule, but it's a strong correlation.

[FIRE@50]

On another note - I adore trees. Our first house had a gorgeous, tree covered lot. NEVER AGAIN! We spent hours picking up sticks before we mowed, had branches fall through roof, etc.

You live, ya learn!

You learned the wrong lesson. We live in a forest so we don't have a lawn to mow or sidewalk to shovel :)

+1. We have a forest patch without grass. Low maintenance and visits of squirrels.

This is my dream house lot

[I'm a red panda]

I am surprised to see so many people associate home ownership with gardening. Renters don't garden over there? Does the landlord do it or hire someone to do it? In my country that would be very unusual. My grandparents were lifelong renters and they had one of the most beautiful gardens I've ever seen.

I think people are generalizing in some ways--homeownership is more commonly associated with detached, single-family homes, while renting is associated with apartments in a more urban setting, where you won't have the yard work.  It's not a rule, but it's a strong correlation.

I think there might also be some language difference. I don't consider "gardening" to be the same thing as basic yard work.  A garden is a flower garden or a vegetable garden.  If you have a row of hedges by the window and have to mow the grass, that's not gardening to me.  Most people in the suburbia I live in have a pot of flowers by the door, but really all they are doing is yard work.

[Metalcat]

I am surprised to see so many people associate home ownership with gardening. Renters don't garden over there? Does the landlord do it or hire someone to do it? In my country that would be very unusual. My grandparents were lifelong renters and they had one of the most beautiful gardens I've ever seen.

I think people are generalizing in some ways--homeownership is more commonly associated with detached, single-family homes, while renting is associated with apartments in a more urban setting, where you won't have the yard work.  It's not a rule, but it's a strong correlation.

I think there might also be some language difference. I don't consider "gardening" to be the same thing as basic yard work.  A garden is a flower garden or a vegetable garden.  If you have a row of hedges by the window and have to mow the grass, that's not gardening to me.  Most people in the suburbia I live in have a pot of flowers by the door, but really all they are doing is yard work.

Ugh.
I hate all of it.

I have a lawn and hedges right now, but the condo fairies magically maintain it. Even then, I can't wait to move into my cement box high up in the sky. I can't stand the sound of lawncare.

[Just Joe]

On another note - I adore trees. Our first house had a gorgeous, tree covered lot. NEVER AGAIN! We spent hours picking up sticks before we mowed, had branches fall through roof, etc.

You live, ya learn!

You learned the wrong lesson. We live in a forest so we don't have a lawn to mow or sidewalk to shovel :)

+1. We have a forest patch without grass. Low maintenance and visits of squirrels.

This is my dream house lot

With a driveway long enough and a tree line dense enough that the house can't be seen from the road... And that implies a couple of acres of land or more. Ahhh, bliss.

I'll second the limbs. That's my first chore this year when the weather warms and yard starts growing. No big deal. 30 mins or so. Our dog keeps the squirrels on notice. I think she thinks they are squatters.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

On another note - I adore trees. Our first house had a gorgeous, tree covered lot. NEVER AGAIN! We spent hours picking up sticks before we mowed, had branches fall through roof, etc.

You live, ya learn!

You learned the wrong lesson. We live in a forest so we don't have a lawn to mow or sidewalk to shovel :)

+1. We have a forest patch without grass. Low maintenance and visits of squirrels.

This is my dream house lot

With a driveway long enough and a tree line dense enough that the house can't be seen from the road... And that implies a couple of acres of land or more. Ahhh, bliss.

Kinda like this?



Bliss, indeed :)

[merula]

I'm 33, bought in 2016 when I was 30 roughly.

Bought a fixer upper 1890 SFH turned duplex for $230k in a MCOL area (A+ St. Paul MN neighborhood, but busy street)

It would probably sell for 290-350 today, fair market rent for both units would probably be 2500/mo.

It's been a ton of work, much of it unpleasant. But I've got a foothold and a great investment property because of it.

Sounds like we might be neighbors. MacGrove represent.

I bought a condo in an old brownstone 4-plex at 21, lost a fair chunk of money, sold it after 9 years and moved to a SFH. The biggest cost I associate with that place was the opportunity cost. The condo market was much slower to recover than the SFH one, so I was barely above water at the point when I wanted to move and it would've been most attractive to buy a SFH. I could've bought my exact house two years prior to when I did for 20% less than I actually paid.