Author Topic: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"  (Read 15476 times)

2Birds1Stone

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #100 on: March 06, 2019, 10:00:09 AM »
Why does everyone hate on squirrels? I feed the little fuckers all winter :)

Recently a neighbor must have put out poison because we had a show up dead around the neighborhood and a sick one running in circles clearly distressed.....I tried to save him/make his final moments as comfortable as possible.

People suck :(

GuitarStv

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #101 on: March 06, 2019, 11:03:29 AM »
Why does everyone hate on squirrels? I feed the little fuckers all winter :)

Recently a neighbor must have put out poison because we had a show up dead around the neighborhood and a sick one running in circles clearly distressed.....I tried to save him/make his final moments as comfortable as possible.

People suck :(

While I don't support poisoning them, I equally strongly do not support feeding them.

Feeding them causes a population increase that requires continued feeding forevermore, or will lead the slow starvation of the animals until they return back to natural numbers.  Feeding reduces their natural fear and inhibitions around people.  This means that they become bigger nuisances.  They will be more likely to try and nest in attics, they will be more likely to rip open window screens to gain access to homes.

A squirrel is a rat with better PR and a bushy tail.  They both cause damage around your home and they both carry disease/ parasites.  Also, squirrels like to take a single large bite out of every tomato on my vines during the summer though.  I wouldn't be upset if they ate the whole damned tomato, but they just appear hellbent on ruining them all for me.

brandon1827

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #102 on: March 06, 2019, 12:37:24 PM »
This is completely off-topic...but when I saw the Reece's Peanut Butter cup by the squirrel's head I laughed...loudly. :-)

I'm a red panda

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #103 on: March 06, 2019, 01:19:28 PM »
You could just eat the squirrel. They taste pretty good.

I wouldn't if you suspect  they've been poisioned.

Imma

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #104 on: March 06, 2019, 01:21:15 PM »
I am surprised to see so many people associate home ownership with gardening. Renters don't garden over there? Does the landlord do it or hire someone to do it? In my country that would be very unusual. My grandparents were lifelong renters and they had one of the most beautiful gardens I've ever seen.
I think people are generalizing in some ways--homeownership is more commonly associated with detached, single-family homes, while renting is associated with apartments in a more urban setting, where you won't have the yard work.  It's not a rule, but it's a strong correlation.

I think there might also be some language difference. I don't consider "gardening" to be the same thing as basic yard work.  A garden is a flower garden or a vegetable garden.  If you have a row of hedges by the window and have to mow the grass, that's not gardening to me.  Most people in the suburbia I live in have a pot of flowers by the door, but really all they are doing is yard work.

Oh, could certainly be a language thing. English is not my first language. In my language we only have one word for all the work you do in your house.

What I meant is that basic yardwork, if you choose a plot that is not massive and is well designed doesn't really cost that much time to maintain. I'm thinking of a lawn, a patio, some potted plants, what most people have. You have to mow once a month, maybe twice a month in the summer, trim the hedges once a year, water a little bit every now and then. It's only a massive amount of work if you choose it to be, by buying a large plot or have a very time consuming design (which would be what you call a garden). If you're not into that, it's easy to avoid. What I have right now is a small yard that I'm slowly turning into a garden. My neighbour has done the opposite and has by now minimized the amount of work to maybe an hour a month and it still looks very nice.

Of course if you don't want any outdoor maintenance, you can always buy an apartment.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #105 on: March 06, 2019, 01:28:51 PM »
This is completely off-topic...but when I saw the Reece's Peanut Butter cup by the squirrel's head I laughed...loudly. :-)

I wanted his last supper to be memorable! Unfortunately he never partook, so I ate it in the little guys memory.

therethere

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #106 on: March 06, 2019, 01:30:07 PM »
Lifetime renter here. I regret not buying since the market has blown up and I ended up staying in the same place 7+ years. Now I have to listen to everyone say I should have bought a house. You could have made so much money. blah blah blah. Almost weekly. Seriously it's worse than people asking when we're going to have kids! It's also really hard to be fake happy for others making tons of money on their house in a few short years when they put 3% down and overextended.

I actually would have been pretty close to FI if I had bought a house 5 years ago. Instead I live in a frustrating below market rental, and have made my landlord tons of rent and appreciation. On top of that I'm getting priced out of the area and will likely have to move cities eventually due to housing prices.


Philociraptor

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #107 on: March 06, 2019, 02:04:04 PM »
Mowing once a month!? During the spring and early summer I definitely have to mow weekly, the weeds grow SO FAST!

Imma

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #108 on: March 06, 2019, 02:55:23 PM »
Mowing once a month!? During the spring and early summer I definitely have to mow weekly, the weeds grow SO FAST!

For a short period in spring/summer we mow every other week, but certainly not more than that. It helps we don't like the look of super short grass. Thankfully our lawn is small so it's not a lot of work.

Lmoot

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #109 on: March 06, 2019, 03:46:06 PM »
I bought in 2009 at age 25. My house value is over double what I paid, and even though I am 34 now, my mortgage is frozen in time....something affordable to a 25 year old just starting out. My taxes have stayed pretty much the same for a decade and insurance goes down each year as I fix things and find ways to minimize my premiums.

I’ve lived in it off and on, leasing it in between to friends and coworkers, so I never experienced the “tie-down” factor. It wasn’t all rainbows though...spent over $10k just a couple weeks ago on repairing a sewer line and replacing the pipes in and under the house. But when I needed to replace the roof, or the AC, or rewire the house...I would just close my eyes and whisper “$354”....the amount of my 2009-era mortgage.

I only have $30-something thousand left, and could pay it off in cash next year, or in liquified assets next week. But I am going coast for a while as I have other plans for my money.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 03:49:56 PM by Lmoot »

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #110 on: March 06, 2019, 06:10:46 PM »
28 years old and not even considering buying until we move to a LCOL city.

Sibley

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #111 on: March 06, 2019, 07:39:27 PM »
I bought a house almost 2 years ago at 31. I did buy too large of a house, but it was also the smallest house I liked. And I knew it was bigger than I needed, so that was a deliberate choice.

My house is 100 years old (there may be a birthday party later this year!), and with the age comes a certain amount of increased maintenance. Again, I knew this. I grew up in older homes, I'm familiar with how they're built, the issues, etc. I'm somewhat handy and am willing to learn more. I had a good home inspector and I have a decent amount of knowledge, and we both went over the house with a fine tooth comb. There has only been one surprise with the house, and it wasn't a huge one.

What did catch me off guard was the neighbors. Neighbor on one side is dx'ed paranoid schizophrenic, and in addition to the pretty serious mental health monitoring he gets, he self medicates with drugs and booze. Luckily, he likes me. Neighbor on the other side started out fine, but is probably also mentally ill, and a few months after I moved in a switch was flipped and now hates my guts. Has caused issues, and will continue to do so. Rest of the neighborhood is fine. They probably think I'm a little odd.

Not a huge fan of yardwork/gardening, so I plan things to be low maintenance. Smart planning can significantly reduce future work.

10dollarsatatime

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #112 on: March 06, 2019, 08:22:12 PM »
No regrets.  I bought 5 years ago.  I'm not sure I was actually ready to be a homeowner.  I'm still trying and learning to not be THAT neighbor. (Mostly I don't keep up with mowing the lawn. Sometimes I wish I had held out for a house with a garage, but other than that, I like this one.  It's small, and I've only just started remodeling.  (It needs it desperately.)  I have a huge garden, because I can.  I have two dogs and a cat, because I can.  In 12 years when I retire, I'll buy another one.

brandon1827

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #113 on: March 07, 2019, 07:34:50 AM »
This is completely off-topic...but when I saw the Reece's Peanut Butter cup by the squirrel's head I laughed...loudly. :-)

I wanted his last supper to be memorable! Unfortunately he never partook, so I ate it in the little guys memory.

Well it was a nice gesture even if he didn't partake, lol. I'm glad somebody ate that peanut butter cup though...would be a terrible waste otherwise!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 09:58:52 AM by brandon1827 »

Dogastrophe

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #114 on: March 07, 2019, 07:46:30 AM »
We have some financial regrets from buying our first house in 2004 (we should have waiting until we were in a better financial position); however we became great friends with the couple that lived next door.  We have no regrets selling the house last year and buying a condo.

Dicey

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #115 on: March 07, 2019, 08:24:11 AM »
Houses can be an expensive pain in the ass. However, home ownership is what got me to FIRE, so...totally worth it.

Just Joe

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #116 on: March 07, 2019, 08:28:42 AM »
Kinda like this?



Bliss, indeed :)

Yep - that is the one. Complicates house hunting though - can't see the house!

hops

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #117 on: March 07, 2019, 08:48:41 AM »
I bought around seven years ago, in my twenties. At that time my neighborhood was still being ravaged by foreclosures and short sales. Several people involved in the buying and move-in process (title company worker, tradesmen who helped with repairs) remarked how unusual it was to see someone moving into a house instead of fleeing one.

Some middle-aged relatives admonished for me buying a small, inexpensive house. Wasn't it the perfect time to buy something larger, in a fancier neighborhood? But I had a low income at the time and no expectation of earning much more in the future. A small house is much cheaper to maintain. It was odd to be 40 years younger than a lot of my neighbors. And now many of them are dying or steeply declining, which is very sad.

At various times, for various (and not always logical) reasons, I felt some pangs of regret along the way. Now, unexpectedly, my financial situation is drastically improved, and I've never loved my tiny mortgage more. We'll be moving in a few years to be closer to my wife's work and our cost of living will probably never be this low again.

Imma

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #118 on: March 07, 2019, 09:57:25 AM »

At various times, for various (and not always logical) reasons, I felt some pangs of regret along the way. Now, unexpectedly, my financial situation is drastically improved, and I've never loved my tiny mortgage more. We'll be moving in a few years to be closer to my wife's work and our cost of living will probably never be this low again.

I won't deny either I've felt very small pangs of regret when I see friends buy super cool houses in lovely areas, but I'm usually instantly cured by looking at my mortgage statement - 70k left on a 160k house in a place where the average home is 300k, before the age of 30. No fancy clown house beats that feeling.

shinn497

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #119 on: March 07, 2019, 09:59:05 AM »
Articles like this make me perfectly fine with waiting to buy a house. If I ever buy.

Awesomeness

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #120 on: March 07, 2019, 11:14:34 AM »
I’ve owned 7 houses from super old to brand new and completely gutted and renovated one. That’s the one I’m in now. My kids are 25 and 21. I share w them everything and it’s my daughter that rents my basement. Her in-laws have offered their very well mainted home for the price of taking over their mortgage. She pays me 800 for the basement. Their home is a close comparison to mine but w higher taxes. I sat her down and showed her the real numbers so they could make an informed decision. She’s looking at 500$ more a month in regular bills, not counting any repairs or maintenance.  The last year I’ve repainted my garage, had a new water line installed, fixed a leak in the basement and had the water heater repaired. She was here during all that but I of course paid for everything and shared the process.  It’s a small place too but there’s always something, my yard is a mess from the water line and I need to paint all the upstairs trim and want to change the wall color.   

The fact is I enjoy it but it’s a money and time suck, it’s a small home on a city lot too. I’ve had the big house on three acres that had to be mowed. It was beautiful but so much work, took hours just to do the yard.


I am just now breaking even on the work I did to get the basement ready for a tenant, one year down. I can’t see many big expenses in the near future as my house is truly only a few years old.  I hope I’ve finally hit my dream situation of a nice cheap place to live. Now hope it lasts a few more years cause it took me that long to get here.


Eurotexan

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #121 on: March 07, 2019, 08:24:29 PM »
I'm a young(ish) Gen Xer and this is my second home. The first was the home of my dreams, at least that's what I thought when I bought it, quaint cottage, with a pool, chef's kitchen etc and the maintenance, especially on the pool, was a nightmare. Looking back I was clueless about what home ownership was all about and as a woman living alone with my daughter, most maintenance was outsourced at great cost. Upside was I bought the home for $220K and sold it for $380K, I made money in the end but struggled month to month with all the expenses. This was before MMM and I learnt my lesson.

I bought my current house about 5 years ago and love, love, love it. The key? Its size. It's a townhouse, half the size of my previous house and has a tiny back yard (artificial turf is the way to go if you hate yard work!). It is part of an HOA but I am President, no-one else wanted to do it, which I love as I make the decisions, balance the books and ensure no pesky assessments under my watch (at least I try my best). That's the only way I'd buy in an HOA.

I am happy in my small house, it's not a sacrifice for me (I'm from Europe where housing is much smaller), and most of the associated costs are cheaper. I can also afford nice upgrades because of the size. We struggle when my family stay from overseas but we make do, or I pay for a hotel up the road, it still ends up cheaper than buying, cooling, furnishing, maintaining etc rooms I use once a year.

Abe

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #122 on: March 07, 2019, 11:14:44 PM »
I've owned a house and a condo over the last 10 years, but currently enjoy renting. We don't regret buying since it was profitable in the end. However, the cost of a rental is less than buying a similar house in my area, and I don't have to maintain anything! My would-be down payment is making way more money in a balanced portfolio, to boot.  If we buy ever again, it'd have to be somewhere with distance between neighbors - to many weirdos in this world. I'm one too, but at least I sleep at a normal hour and don't "share" my music with everyone in the neighborhood.

ice_beard

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #123 on: March 08, 2019, 11:48:35 PM »
We bought one year ago after renting for 20 years, couldn't be happier.  This is a vhcol area, my mortgage is not small.  It's my house.  I can paint it pink if I want (I won't) or I can tear out the ugly seashell bathroom sink.  No permission needed from the landlord and no more moves on the near term horizon.  Hooray!!!

We have some things that have needed to be done, tree work, the lawn needed attention but it's pretty minimal and I'm okay with it. 

I enjoy being a homeowner.  I even shockingly put up Christmas lights in December. 

londonbanker

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #124 on: March 09, 2019, 11:01:00 AM »
I also fall in the 37% (although I missed the millennial boat by 1year).
We bought our first house 6years ago in London and renovated it. We were lucky enough to surf the R.E. rebound from the 2008-2009 crash, which got going for 7 years until Brexit put a stop to it.
Not only taxes were quite low (in comparison to what you pay in the US), but our interest rate was fairly low (2.25%) - which kept the interest amount of our mortgage payment fairly reasonable at Ł1.2k a month... a bargain for central London.
We sold it last year as we moved out of London - and cleared a Ł600k profit, and we carried our mortgage over to a cheaper home we bought in the suburbs.
This has allowed us to shrink our journey to FI by about 3years...

Although we could have bought the new house cash, we liked the idea to cash out our profit on our previous house and invest the proceeds in our retirement accounts. We are still aiming to overpay our current mortgage and be mortgage free in the next 4-5years.

GuitarStv

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #125 on: March 11, 2019, 12:44:06 PM »
We bought one year ago after renting for 20 years, couldn't be happier.  This is a vhcol area, my mortgage is not small.  It's my house.  I can paint it pink if I want (I won't) or I can tear out the ugly seashell bathroom sink.  No permission needed from the landlord and no more moves on the near term horizon.  Hooray!!!

We have some things that have needed to be done, tree work, the lawn needed attention but it's pretty minimal and I'm okay with it. 

I enjoy being a homeowner.  I even shockingly put up Christmas lights in December.

The good thing about Christmas lights is that they only need to be put up once.  Ever.

At least in my neighbourhood they're never taken down, but turned on for Halloween, Diwali, Easter, New Years, what have you.



:P

LouLou

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #126 on: March 12, 2019, 07:13:58 PM »
I'm a happy millennial homeowner. Buying made sense because we want to live in this exact spot for the next 50 years. If we won the lottery, we would tear down this house and build a different one in the same exact lot. But I don't play the lottery, so this house is it.

My husband LOVES yard work, shoveling snow, all that jazz so my single family house works for us. If I was single or married to someone like me, I would live in an end-unit townhome. I grew up in apartments and have no idea about how to do any of this stuff. I don't want to learn either.

YummyRaisins

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #127 on: March 12, 2019, 07:24:52 PM »
Millenial aspiring to regret purchasing a home, checking in.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #128 on: March 12, 2019, 07:54:19 PM »
I bought in my mid-20s, paid it off about six years afterwards, bought another house for in my early 30s, am a few years short of paying that off, will keep buying houses till I get enough rental income to retire off.

A bit annoyed by all these regulations that make it harder for an investor to buy a house than a non-investor with the same means. The government shouldn't be differentiating between the two categories, i my view.

I have no regrets about buying my homes even though prices and rents have fluctuated greatly. Land is a finite resource after all.

Linea_Norway

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #129 on: March 13, 2019, 02:07:33 AM »
If we won the lottery, we <...>. But I don't play the lottery, so this <...> is it.

The ultimate Mustachian people problem... :-)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #130 on: March 13, 2019, 06:49:49 AM »
A bit annoyed by all these regulations that make it harder for an investor to buy a house than a non-investor with the same means. The government shouldn't be differentiating between the two categories, i my view.
What regulations are you referring to?

Dicey

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #131 on: March 13, 2019, 07:26:13 AM »
A bit annoyed by all these regulations that make it harder for an investor to buy a house than a non-investor with the same means. The government shouldn't be differentiating between the two categories, i my view.
What regulations are you referring to?
I was wondering the same thing. Typically, the difference is that a non-owner occ pays a higher interest rate and buys different insurance.

IMO, the wiser move for MikeBT (or anyone) is to secure the long, low interest mortgage while he lives in the house, convert it to a rental, then lather, rinse repeat, clinging to those low, fixed rates until the day they expire. This is called using leverage to create wealth. It's also an excellent hedge against inflation.

Metalcat

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #132 on: March 13, 2019, 08:16:31 AM »
A bit annoyed by all these regulations that make it harder for an investor to buy a house than a non-investor with the same means. The government shouldn't be differentiating between the two categories, i my view.
What regulations are you referring to?
I was wondering the same thing. Typically, the difference is that a non-owner occ pays a higher interest rate and buys different insurance.

IMO, the wiser move for MikeBT (or anyone) is to secure the long, low interest mortgage while he lives in the house, convert it to a rental, then lather, rinse repeat, clinging to those low, fixed rates until the day they expire. This is called using leverage to create wealth. It's also an excellent hedge against inflation.

He's in Australia, the rules are different there, no?

Dicey

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #133 on: March 13, 2019, 08:33:15 AM »
A bit annoyed by all these regulations that make it harder for an investor to buy a house than a non-investor with the same means. The government shouldn't be differentiating between the two categories, i my view.
What regulations are you referring to?
I was wondering the same thing. Typically, the difference is that a non-owner occ pays a higher interest rate and buys different insurance.

IMO, the wiser move for MikeBT (or anyone) is to secure the long, low interest mortgage while he lives in the house, convert it to a rental, then lather, rinse repeat, clinging to those low, fixed rates until the day they expire. This is called using leverage to create wealth. It's also an excellent hedge against inflation.

He's in Australia, the rules are different there, no?
Whoops! I confess, being a lazy FIRE slob, I often read in bed on a small tablet. To make the font readable without my glasses (see: lazy), I blow up the screen so I can't see the left margin. IIRC, in the lovely Land Down Under, interest is not deductible on one's primary mortgage, but is on an investment property. In that case, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more hoops to jump through, or everyone would try to save $$ by calling their property a rental.

It would be interesting to know what the differences are, so perhaps @MikeBT will respond to the question.

Arbitrage

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #134 on: March 13, 2019, 08:49:05 AM »

I'm litterally cool renting until I die.

This was our attitude for a long time, and it served us well.  We started our careers in 2005 in SoCal, when the bubble was truly becoming bubblicious, and everyone was advising us to do whatever we could to buy something, regardless of price or affordability, or be priced out forever.  We got frustrated, sure, but looked at the process rationally, comparing what we could afford (not what someone would lend us), what the tradeoffs were for renting vs. buying, and concluded that it was just out of whack.  If we could never afford to buy, as we were told, then so be it.

Thankfully, the crash solved those problems, at least for a time, and we bought when price/rent ratios made sense.  All of the patience allowed us to have a nice cash down payment saved up.  We weren't able to take advantage of the bottom of the market, since my company was going through layoffs at the time, but still caught the market on the downswing. 

Crystal ball is hazy for where the market goes from here, but we don't regret our house purchase.  Then again, we're not millennials; missed that cutoff by a few years.  The amount of work a house takes vs. renting, and the extra stress of maintaining it and dealing with the issues, were admittedly unpleasant surprises. 

GuitarStv

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #135 on: March 13, 2019, 09:00:07 AM »
We started our careers in 2005 in SoCal, when the bubble was truly becoming bubblicious, and everyone was advising us to do whatever we could to buy something, regardless of price or affordability, or be priced out forever.  We got frustrated, sure, but looked at the process rationally, comparing what we could afford (not what someone would lend us), what the tradeoffs were for renting vs. buying, and concluded that it was just out of whack.  If we could never afford to buy, as we were told, then so be it.

Thankfully, the crash solved those problems, at least for a time, and we bought when price/rent ratios made sense.  All of the patience allowed us to have a nice cash down payment saved up.  We weren't able to take advantage of the bottom of the market, since my company was going through layoffs at the time, but still caught the market on the downswing.

Conversely, we bought our house 9 years ago in a market that had seen steady price increases for more than ten years prior.  We were told by multiple people (and news articles) that buying was a stupid idea and that a crash was just around the corner.  It's been 9 years of steady price increases since then.  The home we're in has raised in value much more than our investments, so we likely wouldn't be able to buy it were we looking today.

My argument isn't that it's always a good idea to buy, but that sometimes when you're trying to market time to buy a house it'll work out (your case) and sometimes it won't (my case).  You pays your money and you takes your chances.  :P

Bloop Bloop

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #136 on: March 13, 2019, 01:05:40 PM »
A bit annoyed by all these regulations that make it harder for an investor to buy a house than a non-investor with the same means. The government shouldn't be differentiating between the two categories, i my view.
What regulations are you referring to?
I was wondering the same thing. Typically, the difference is that a non-owner occ pays a higher interest rate and buys different insurance.

IMO, the wiser move for MikeBT (or anyone) is to secure the long, low interest mortgage while he lives in the house, convert it to a rental, then lather, rinse repeat, clinging to those low, fixed rates until the day they expire. This is called using leverage to create wealth. It's also an excellent hedge against inflation.

Hello, yes, here in Australia there are some strange strange rules.

Investment property used to have very favourable tax treatment. Specifically, whereas residential mortgage interest is not deductible (as it's not connected to an income-producing asset), investment mortgage interest is deductible against all other income.

Now the favourable treatment is no more, for several reasons:

1. The bank regulator (APRA) was specifically told to enforce quotas on investor lending on banks. I have no idea why this was done; to me, it seems incredibly punitive for those trying to shore up a retirement. Yes, first home owners wanted to buy a residential house and complained that they couldn't get into the market but they also had a variety of concessions and aids (like a first home owner's grant) and this move by APRA seemed to me to be pure populism.

2. The government has clamped down on deductions for investment properties. There is likely to be a left-wing government installed in May and that will limit interest deductions. Depreciation on plant has already been limited.

3. My state government is heavily reliant on land tax which for an average-priced investment property is about 5% of its value...EVERY YEAR. In my view this is ridiculously punitive.

4. Investors are now arbitrarily subject to higher interest rates on their loans. Again, this is just due to the APRA regulations, and a general sentiment against investors.

What to do? I've found a few strategies:

1. Tell your bank manager your IP is actually a residential property. (Declare it as an investment property to the tax man and to your insurance broker, so that you're not committing tax/insurance fraud, only a breach of contract with your bank which will never be found or prosecuted). This way you get the lower interest rate.

2. Use an offset account to shift funds around your multiple mortgages, always prioritising the PPOR mortgage (since that is not deductible). With an investment property, once you've "paid it off", rather than discharging the mortgage, just keep all your funds in the offset account. Next time you need money for any asset, withdraw from the offset and the 'debt' created is deductible.

Arbitrage

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #137 on: March 13, 2019, 03:18:02 PM »

My argument isn't that it's always a good idea to buy, but that sometimes when you're trying to market time to buy a house it'll work out (your case) and sometimes it won't (my case).  You pays your money and you takes your chances.  :P

Sure, but I don't want to give the impression that we were trying to market time.  It was really based upon fundamental affordability vs. renting (and whether or not we had sufficient income and capital to buy something we would be in for a long time - I never believed in doing the 'starter house' route, or the ARM-to-make-the-house-affordable-then-hope-to-cash-out-refinance route).  I became very familiar with the NY Times rent vs buy calculator - including its limitations. 

sixwings

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #138 on: March 13, 2019, 07:14:26 PM »
im a millenial bought a home in a relatively HCOL (Victoria BC) and I have 0 regrets. I like my house and having a backyard a lot.

gpyros85

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #139 on: March 13, 2019, 10:08:17 PM »
Owned two houses so far, first one in Florida bought for 98k and sold for 135k was a small 2 bedroom around 1050 sq ft.

2nd home I still live in and bought for 170k and probably work 160k-165k. It is almost paid off. I bought the house brand new and semi-custom built with the builder. We LOVE this house. This house is also 1550 sq ft and use it now we have 3 kids. Also, being a desert home almost zero maintance on the lawn, that was one of my dislikes about house in Florida.

I wonder if the regret is from buying to big of house vs renting. It is terrible in most metropolitian areas the new homes are 2500 sqft +...

StarBright

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #140 on: March 14, 2019, 09:23:00 AM »
Owned two houses so far, first one in Florida bought for 98k and sold for 135k was a small 2 bedroom around 1050 sq ft.

2nd home I still live in and bought for 170k and probably work 160k-165k. It is almost paid off. I bought the house brand new and semi-custom built with the builder. We LOVE this house. This house is also 1550 sq ft and use it now we have 3 kids. Also, being a desert home almost zero maintance on the lawn, that was one of my dislikes about house in Florida.

I wonder if the regret is from buying to big of house vs renting. It is terrible in most metropolitian areas the new homes are 2500 sqft +...

hmm - we don't regret our house, and actually really love it, but our biggest complaint is that we actually bought too small (1700 sqft for 4 people and a giant dog). But there are three things that I think really contribute to it:
1. I work from home full-time and DH works from home most of the summer and a couple of days a week. It can be hard to separate work and home space when you are trying to use your spaces efficiently.
2. We also have cold winters. Really, our house just feels too small during the winters when it is hard to escape from each other.
3. We have no family in our area and frequently have out-of-town guests. Probably for at least a month out of the year but usually closer to 45-50 days a year. We really could use a better dedicated guest space.

I identified with the regret people thinking their houses were too small.

mm1970

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #141 on: March 14, 2019, 10:39:30 AM »
Owned two houses so far, first one in Florida bought for 98k and sold for 135k was a small 2 bedroom around 1050 sq ft.

2nd home I still live in and bought for 170k and probably work 160k-165k. It is almost paid off. I bought the house brand new and semi-custom built with the builder. We LOVE this house. This house is also 1550 sq ft and use it now we have 3 kids. Also, being a desert home almost zero maintance on the lawn, that was one of my dislikes about house in Florida.

I wonder if the regret is from buying to big of house vs renting. It is terrible in most metropolitian areas the new homes are 2500 sqft +...

hmm - we don't regret our house, and actually really love it, but our biggest complaint is that we actually bought too small (1700 sqft for 4 people and a giant dog). But there are three things that I think really contribute to it:
1. I work from home full-time and DH works from home most of the summer and a couple of days a week. It can be hard to separate work and home space when you are trying to use your spaces efficiently.
2. We also have cold winters. Really, our house just feels too small during the winters when it is hard to escape from each other.
3. We have no family in our area and frequently have out-of-town guests. Probably for at least a month out of the year but usually closer to 45-50 days a year. We really could use a better dedicated guest space.

I identified with the regret people thinking their houses were too small.
I was about to give you crap for 1700+ sf too small for a family of 4.  We have <1150 sf.

But then I kept reading.  I live in California.  It's been rainy, yes, but we don't have much winter.  Kids get outdoor PE almost every single day, or at least playground time.  It can be a challenge if we each feel the need for some "space", because there are only really 3 rooms (living/dining, 2 bedrooms).

My family all lives in the northeast.  My BIL and SIL have a massive house with a full basement.  Definitely needed for the arctic winter so you can let the kids go play and make ALL.THE.NOISE.  Plus the work from home is tricky too.

Milizard

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #142 on: March 14, 2019, 05:42:44 PM »
My husband and I are Gen X, and we got a really good deal on a fixer-upper in 2007.  $120k down to ~ $85k.  I'm not sure, as the taxing authorities always try to maximize their take even if it's completely unreasonable.  I think they ultimately knocked it down to ~ $95 after the market recovered a little.
I regret not waiting another year so I could have taking advantage of tax credits and gotten a better deal on a house in better condition.

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #143 on: March 14, 2019, 09:28:34 PM »
A bit annoyed by all these regulations that make it harder for an investor to buy a house than a non-investor with the same means. The government shouldn't be differentiating between the two categories, i my view.
What regulations are you referring to?
I was wondering the same thing. Typically, the difference is that a non-owner occ pays a higher interest rate and buys different insurance.

IMO, the wiser move for MikeBT (or anyone) is to secure the long, low interest mortgage while he lives in the house, convert it to a rental, then lather, rinse repeat, clinging to those low, fixed rates until the day they expire. This is called using leverage to create wealth. It's also an excellent hedge against inflation.

Hello, yes, here in Australia there are some strange strange rules.

Investment property used to have very favourable tax treatment. Specifically, whereas residential mortgage interest is not deductible (as it's not connected to an income-producing asset), investment mortgage interest is deductible against all other income.

Now the favourable treatment is no more, for several reasons:

1. The bank regulator (APRA) was specifically told to enforce quotas on investor lending on banks. I have no idea why this was done; to me, it seems incredibly punitive for those trying to shore up a retirement. Yes, first home owners wanted to buy a residential house and complained that they couldn't get into the market but they also had a variety of concessions and aids (like a first home owner's grant) and this move by APRA seemed to me to be pure populism.

2. The government has clamped down on deductions for investment properties. There is likely to be a left-wing government installed in May and that will limit interest deductions. Depreciation on plant has already been limited.

3. My state government is heavily reliant on land tax which for an average-priced investment property is about 5% of its value...EVERY YEAR. In my view this is ridiculously punitive.

4. Investors are now arbitrarily subject to higher interest rates on their loans. Again, this is just due to the APRA regulations, and a general sentiment against investors.

What to do? I've found a few strategies:

1. Tell your bank manager your IP is actually a residential property. (Declare it as an investment property to the tax man and to your insurance broker, so that you're not committing tax/insurance fraud, only a breach of contract with your bank which will never be found or prosecuted). This way you get the lower interest rate.

2. Use an offset account to shift funds around your multiple mortgages, always prioritising the PPOR mortgage (since that is not deductible). With an investment property, once you've "paid it off", rather than discharging the mortgage, just keep all your funds in the offset account. Next time you need money for any asset, withdraw from the offset and the 'debt' created is deductible.
Wow, very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to explain, @MikeBT. It's always fun to learn how other countries operate. We don't have offset accounts in the US, but I think the concept is brilliant. And 5% annual property tax is murder!

Bloop Bloop

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Re: "63% of millennials who bought homes have regrets"
« Reply #144 on: March 14, 2019, 10:14:25 PM »
My pleasure, Dicey. I'm glad you found it helpful.

Yes, 5% annual land tax is incredibly punitive and yet no one complains because it only applies to investors. I bet if every homeowner were forced to pay it annually suddenly there would be an uproar!