Author Topic: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!  (Read 5610 times)

Laura33

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2021, 01:09:54 PM »
And I don't think EVs are the "future" until we seriously upgrade the electrical grid. Just heating homes in Texas turned off all the lights. If every American had a car plugged in we'd all be in the dark. If I were a betting person I'd put my money on Hydrogen fuel.

First, as mentioned, the TX issues had nothing to do with the grid -- it was caused by TX's particular semi-deregulated power industry (which neither required nor provided incentives to generators/natural gas producers to protect their operations against extreme weather conditions), together with its decision not to connect to the nationwide grid to avoid federal regulation (which thus deprived them of some of the backup supply other states can obtain in emergencies).   

FWIW, Tesla's big investment right now isn't cars -- it's batteries and backup power systems.  Numerous times over the past decade I've said to myself, wow, look at what Tesla's doing, there's no way that will work.  And every single time I've been wrong.  So I would absolutely not vote against them on pretty much anything.  They know that "refueling" is probably the most significant limiting factor on their sales; they are throwing a shit-ton of money at that problem to solve it (batteries, solar, charging stations, etc.); and they have many many shit-tons of money to throw.  I have no idea what their plans are, but if anyone can solve the problem, it's them. 

One thing to keep in mind with non-Tesla vehicles:  the various companies that are building charging stations do not share the same tech, so any car may not work on any charger.*  So research compatible options before you buy.

Personally, if I were in that scenario, I'd buy a Model 3 along with a home solar charging station.  Sure, I don't know what the future repairs/maintenance might cost.  But years of free "gas" gives me a lot of extra cash to play with. 

*For the rapid chargers.  My recollection is that Teslas will work on any charging station with adapters, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

PDXTabs

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2021, 01:28:02 PM »
And I don't think EVs are the "future" until we seriously upgrade the electrical grid. Just heating homes in Texas turned off all the lights. If every American had a car plugged in we'd all be in the dark. If I were a betting person I'd put my money on Hydrogen fuel.

First, as mentioned, the TX issues had nothing to do with the grid -- it was caused by TX's particular semi-deregulated power industry (which neither required nor provided incentives to generators/natural gas producers to protect their operations against extreme weather conditions), together with its decision not to connect to the nationwide grid to avoid federal regulation (which thus deprived them of some of the backup supply other states can obtain in emergencies).   

Saying that the TX issue had nothing to do with the grid while pointing out that their grid wasn't connected to the national grid seems pretty disingenuous to me.

Also, further reading: https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/ercot-holding-emergency-board-meeting-to-discuss-grids-power-failures

Just Joe

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2021, 01:35:26 PM »
FWIW the Kona is about the size of a Tesla 3 or Nissan Leaf. A RAV4 is much larger.

The Kona is marketed as an SUV but it is really a FWD car. It is a subcompact SUV like the Honda HRV.

I see a lot of adjectives  like "big" or "Small", etc for various vehicles being mentioned. Lets actually quantify how large some of these vehicles are in relation to one another.

Dimensions per google:
Tesla Model 3- 185"L X 73"W X 57"H
Toyota Rav 4- 182"L X 73"W X 67-69"H
Camry- 192-193"L X 72"W X 56-57"H
Prius- 180"L X 69"W X 58"H
Kona- 164"L X 71"W X 61-62"H

And the Leaf is 176" long. Didn't want anyone to get left out. ;)

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2021, 01:46:33 PM »
One thing to keep in mind with non-Tesla vehicles:  the various companies that are building charging stations do not share the same tech, so any car may not work on any charger.*  So research compatible options before you buy.

*For the rapid chargers.  My recollection is that Teslas will work on any charging station with adapters, but the reverse is not necessarily true.
Unless you are in Japan, CCS is basically the standard now for rapid charging (proprietary Tesla Superchargers excluded). Even the CHAdeMO hold-out Nissan is using CCS now. Charging stations will often support multiple standards as well (especially for dedicated new builds like Electrify America).

djadziadax

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2021, 02:47:41 PM »
FWIW the Kona is about the size of a Tesla 3 or Nissan Leaf. A RAV4 is much larger.

The Kona is marketed as an SUV but it is really a FWD car. It is a subcompact SUV like the Honda HRV.

I see a lot of adjectives  like "big" or "Small", etc for various vehicles being mentioned. Lets actually quantify how large some of these vehicles are in relation to one another.

Dimensions per google:
Tesla Model 3- 185"L X 73"W X 57"H
Toyota Rav 4- 182"L X 73"W X 67-69"H
Camry- 192-193"L X 72"W X 56-57"H
Prius- 180"L X 69"W X 58"H
Kona- 164"L X 71"W X 61-62"H

And the Leaf is 176" long. Didn't want anyone to get left out. ;)

Wow, this is pretty good! Would not have though about actually comparing dimensions.

The Kona is the shortest! Looks much larger on the website.

Laura33

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2021, 02:52:21 PM »
And I don't think EVs are the "future" until we seriously upgrade the electrical grid. Just heating homes in Texas turned off all the lights. If every American had a car plugged in we'd all be in the dark. If I were a betting person I'd put my money on Hydrogen fuel.

First, as mentioned, the TX issues had nothing to do with the grid -- it was caused by TX's particular semi-deregulated power industry (which neither required nor provided incentives to generators/natural gas producers to protect their operations against extreme weather conditions), together with its decision not to connect to the nationwide grid to avoid federal regulation (which thus deprived them of some of the backup supply other states can obtain in emergencies).   

Saying that the TX issue had nothing to do with the grid while pointing out that their grid wasn't connected to the national grid seems pretty disingenuous to me.

Also, further reading: https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/ercot-holding-emergency-board-meeting-to-discuss-grids-power-failures

OK, let me be clearer:  it had nothing to do with whether the grid itself needed "upgrades," as the comment I was responding to implied. 

First, let's clarify terms.  When I refer to the "grid," I am referring to the collection of power lines that take the power from the power plants down to the end users.  You could also be referring to include the power plants that provide the power to the grid, and some people may even extend that reference to include the people who supply the fuel to power those power plants.

The TX issue did not result from any general need to upgrade the "grid" as I defined it -- or even, in most cases, the grid + power plants.  The biggest factor was that power plants could not get the fuel they need to generate that energy.  The outages started largely because the upstream natural gas producers and pipelines were not equipped to operate in that cold weather.  Then, once they started the rolling blackouts, those blackouts hit some of the compressor stations that were needed to move the gas that was available, so even less gas got to the power plants. 

In addition, some of the power plants themselves were also not prepared for those extreme temperatures.  But my understanding from what I've read is that that was secondary to the problems of just getting the fuel they needed to run. 

So, yes, when many power plants cannot make power, and you have cut yourself off from out-of-state power sources, then the grid will go down.  But that has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the grid itself is sufficiently "updated."  You can have a brand-spanking-new multi-billion-dollar collection of power lines and power plants, and it's still going to go down if the plants that feed that grid can't get the fuel they need to make power.     

The other issue really is that the root cause of the outages was the regulatory system the state chose as a political matter, not individual owners' decisions not to make "upgrades."  In a regulated system, power plants are required to meet specific standards for reliability; rates are set at a level that allows them to buy and maintain the equipment necessary to meet those reliability standards, and conversely the power plants are penalized if they fail to comply with those standards.* 

TX made the decision to deregulate the power industry.  Basically, people looked at the rates and said, hey, that's a sweet deal for the power plants, but customers are getting screwed, so let's deregulate and let the free market handle it more efficiently.  And hey, it worked!  Customers get to choose their provider and plans so they can pay a lot less during normal times.  But the flip side is that each individual power supplier has the equivalent freedom to choose whether it makes economic sense to make the investments necessary to keep operating in extreme weather events; sure, there are some regulatory standards, but they're pretty basic.  Most of the TX power plants made the rational economic choice that it wasn't profitable to do so, so they just went down when the weather hit.  The ones who did make those investments reaped huge profits due to the tremendous spike in demand (and are now getting slammed for price gouging).

IOW, the TX power system worked precisely as it is designed to under the system TX chose.  So framing the issue as the grid needing "upgrades" doesn't really seem on point when you have a system working as planned -- it sounds like blaming negligence when it was an intentional choice.  The real issue is whether TX will decide that it needs more regulations to protect its people against the downside of a free power market.  Given current politics within the state, I'd give that the proverbial snowball's chance. 

But I'm getting really off-track here, because I geek out over this stuff.  My point was only that the TX event does not support the claim that the "grid" needs significant upgrades, because the problem resulted from a combination of political decisions made by one out of 50 states + freakishly cold weather for an extended period of time.  And because of the measures taken, the power interruptions were limited to a week or two, not months.  In reality, the vast majority of us -- even in TX -- have reliable power the vast majority of the time.  So I just don't see the TX event as dissuading people from buying EVs.


*I used to represent a power plant.  Its contract with the grid operator literally paid it just to be available -- it got a fixed payment every year simply to be available to run if called on, and that fixed payment was designed to cover the fixed expenses needed to build and maintain the plant.  If it actually did run, it got paid more.  OTOH, if it was not able to come online within 2 hrs of being called on, it was penalized and lost some of that fixed payment. 

AccidentialMustache

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2021, 03:42:12 PM »
The Kona is basically the size of a Honda Fit. This is very appealing.

But if the relative wants to spend up to 50k and such and such, I'd get a Model Y, long range (if viable), or possibly a gently used S/X if I could find one. The S/X has the advantage of being aluminum if you are salt belt. I think the limiting factor on EV durability (at least in the salt belt) is going to be rust on the body. You may have to swap out battery cells over time, but anyone with a brain is designing for that these days (see GM's new platform for the hummer). The motor and fixed gearing isn't going to die with any regularity. Yes, blower motors on furnaces fail but that's not the usual issue. Also they are fairly cheap to replace, especially compared to ICE.

I don't have a 3/Y/S/X partially because they're huge. I like my tiny little car thank you very much. If Elon comes out with a hot hatch with a range over 300, he's probably getting my money. The 2k9 is getting long in the tooth and the previously mentioned rust is starting, along with a few other minor irritations.

Paul der Krake

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2021, 04:19:54 PM »
3. Toyota sedan - pros: dependable to 150K min, cheap insurance, cheap to maintain, does not attract unwanted attention - cons: cant haul a lot, gas (for the hybrids).
Here's the secret to hauling stuff in a sedan: slap a permanent roof rack on it. It will match any "naked" SUV's cargo capacity, and then some. You can carry skis, snowboards, surfboards, mountain bikes, kayaks, or just a huge roof box. It's insanely versatile and you don't need to settle for a vehicle with poor fuel efficiency the rest of the time.

Combine that with a backseat that folds flat and you will be pleasantly surprised at how much gear you can travel with, at 40+ MPG.

And if that is still not enough, sedans have some towing capacity. My puny corolla is rated for 1,500 lbs of trailer.

Small cars, well utilized, rule.

JLee

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2021, 04:22:14 PM »
The Kona is basically the size of a Honda Fit. This is very appealing.

But if the relative wants to spend up to 50k and such and such, I'd get a Model Y, long range (if viable), or possibly a gently used S/X if I could find one. The S/X has the advantage of being aluminum if you are salt belt. I think the limiting factor on EV durability (at least in the salt belt) is going to be rust on the body. You may have to swap out battery cells over time, but anyone with a brain is designing for that these days (see GM's new platform for the hummer). The motor and fixed gearing isn't going to die with any regularity. Yes, blower motors on furnaces fail but that's not the usual issue. Also they are fairly cheap to replace, especially compared to ICE.

I don't have a 3/Y/S/X partially because they're huge. I like my tiny little car thank you very much. If Elon comes out with a hot hatch with a range over 300, he's probably getting my money. The 2k9 is getting long in the tooth and the previously mentioned rust is starting, along with a few other minor irritations.

The older S's are much older technology - they just got a tech refresh for..2021, I believe.  I would rather have a new 3 or Y vs an equivalently priced older Model S.

EliteZags

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2021, 05:58:52 PM »
Lexus RX450 hybrid. Will last 20 years easy and no plug-in nonsense or range limits. Drive cross country any time.

this suggestion is getting overlooked, not oversized but practical for extra space, looks a lot better than a tricked out Camry and the same length
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 06:05:53 PM by EliteZags »

DeniseNJ

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2021, 05:51:09 AM »
Quote
So, yes, when many power plants cannot make power, and you have cut yourself off from out-of-state power sources, then the grid will go down.  But that has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the grid itself is sufficiently "updated."  You can have a brand-spanking-new multi-billion-dollar collection of power lines and power plants, and it's still going to go down if the plants that feed that grid can't get the fuel they need to make power.

I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that the TX grid needs new wires and equipment bc the machinery is breaking down. I meant that the USA, TX included, is not prepared for every car to be plugged in overnight, or even half of every car in this county, or even a third of every car in this country. It's not so much that our power lines and plants are decrepit and falling apart as it is that we simply do not come close to being able to supply that kind of power. TX wasn't ready to supply that kind of power for many reasons, as you stated, and neither are the rest of us.  It's not just a matter of throwing Tesla money into putting power stations at every gas station. The main way we make power right now is by burning fossil fuels. Yes, there are other ways, but it will be a long time before this country can make enough electricity to turn combustion engines into a thing of the past.

Hydrogen fuel is no way near ready for prime time either. But I think in the long run, it will be an easier choice.  An I could be totally wrong! Now, as an individual, it may not affect you--you can get solar panels and charge your car for free, save money on gas and be set for 20 yrs. That's great. But as a country, I think we are still a long way off.  But I may be brain washed by Scotty Kilmer, who I've been binge watching. :)

Laura33

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2021, 06:37:14 AM »
I didn't mean that the TX grid needs new wires and equipment bc the machinery is breaking down. I meant that the USA, TX included, is not prepared for every car to be plugged in overnight, or even half of every car in this county, or even a third of every car in this country. It's not so much that our power lines and plants are decrepit and falling apart as it is that we simply do not come close to being able to supply that kind of power.

Ahh, got it -- that makes sense.  I think the key is that we're not going to see a huge shift to EVs overnight; even if we were going to get to 100%, it would be over maybe 20 years.  And meanwhile, the power plants and alternative energy suppliers have people who are paid a lot of money to foresee future trends and who are figuring out how to meet that need.  The other thing to consider is that the problem with power supply isn't baseload -- it's at the extremes in summer/winter, and in particular during the hottest/coldest part of the day.  So I'd think there would be some sort of workable option to turn off chargers during peak demand (even demand-based pricing could persuade people to recharge at optimal times).

I agree with you that the fundamental problem with EVs is that (by and large) they are just as reliant on fossil fuels; you get better emissions controls by centralizing power production at power plants than stretching it out over millions of individual engines, but someone is still burning someone somewhere to make that power.  But hydrogen production shares that problem, because it requires a good bit of electricity to generate the hydrogen.  The real long-term solution is figuring out alternative sources of power in general, whether that is applied through EVs or hydrogen fuel cells or some other tech.

Paper Chaser

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2021, 07:05:48 AM »
Quote
So, yes, when many power plants cannot make power, and you have cut yourself off from out-of-state power sources, then the grid will go down.  But that has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the grid itself is sufficiently "updated."  You can have a brand-spanking-new multi-billion-dollar collection of power lines and power plants, and it's still going to go down if the plants that feed that grid can't get the fuel they need to make power.

I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that the TX grid needs new wires and equipment bc the machinery is breaking down. I meant that the USA, TX included, is not prepared for every car to be plugged in overnight, or even half of every car in this county, or even a third of every car in this country. It's not so much that our power lines and plants are decrepit and falling apart as it is that we simply do not come close to being able to supply that kind of power. TX wasn't ready to supply that kind of power for many reasons, as you stated, and neither are the rest of us.  It's not just a matter of throwing Tesla money into putting power stations at every gas station. The main way we make power right now is by burning fossil fuels. Yes, there are other ways, but it will be a long time before this country can make enough electricity to turn combustion engines into a thing of the past.

Hydrogen fuel is no way near ready for prime time either. But I think in the long run, it will be an easier choice.  An I could be totally wrong! Now, as an individual, it may not affect you--you can get solar panels and charge your car for free, save money on gas and be set for 20 yrs. That's great. But as a country, I think we are still a long way off.  But I may be brain washed by Scotty Kilmer, who I've been binge watching. :)

I think it's important to consider how much energy EVs will command vs the energy that we have now. Most vehicles in the US are driven less than 50 miles per day. With a conservative estimate for efficiency around 3 miles per kwh, that translates to an average of 16kwh of electricity used by our hypothetical EV each day. Most EVs have 70+kwh of electrical capacity. So a daily drive would use roughly 1/4 or 1/5 of the battery capacity (just like using 1/4 or 1/5 of a tank of liquid fuel). That EV driver can choose to charge nightly and keep their battery topped off, or delay charging until the battery is closer to empty and charge more at once. But it's not as if every EV will need to charge from empty to full every night. We don't think about it, but if every ICE needed to refuel every day, that infrastructure would collapse too.

Now, a normal 240V home charger (Level 2 in EV speak) is pretty much the same demand as an electric oven or clothes dryer. It usually charges an EV enough to add 15-20 miles of range per hour of charging. So about 2.5 hours to replenish our theoretical 50 miles of daily use every night. Again, nobody is getting hot/bothered on the internet fretting about The Grid if everybody ran their dryer for 2 hours per night, or when so many homes have their ovens on for several hours on Thanksgiving. Demand will be higher moving forward, but perhaps not as gloom/doom as some headlines might make you believe.

Some people think that we probably make enough total power now, or very close to enough to handle the needs:
https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2019/03/is-the-grid-ready-for-evs/

But, we need to be smarter about where/when we use it. If everybody plugs their EV in as soon as they get home in the late afternoon, that's usually peak electrical demand already and the situation will be bad. Fortunately, there are alternatives. Most EVs offer the option of plugging in at any time, and beginning to charge at a later time (when grid demand will be lower). Utilities can incentivize this by altering electrical rates to be cheaper during off peak hours and/or more expensive during peak hours.

I feel like this is a pretty balanced view from a bunch of different utilities:

https://www.powermag.com/driving-change-on-the-grid-the-impact-of-ev-adoption/

So, investment will be needed. How much and what kind depends on a bunch of factors and location. But when will it be needed? Starting soon is probably a good idea of course, but the real crunch time probably begins around 2035, when CA will mandate all new vehicles sold must be EVs. The average age of a vehicle on US roads continues to get older each year, and is something like 12-13 years old at this point, so even switching from ICEs to nothing but EVs will take a decade or more before nearly all of the civilian vehicles on the road are EV  through natural attrition. That gives us about 20-25 years from now to make the changes needed to the grid to handle close to 100% EV adoption. Perhaps less time in places with lots of EV adoption already (like CA) and more time for places where they're currently less common.





norajean

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2021, 07:12:05 AM »
OP Here -...

..

A Toyota (Rav4 or Prius) have the most history on dependability, repair, insurance, etc. I honestly don't know how to turn a Corolla or Camry into a Lexus by adding trims...any suggestions?

You can’t turn a Toyota into a Lexus just by adding leather seats or power windows. Lexi are a completely different level of serenity and smoothness due to the drivetrain, sound proofing, interior materials, etc.  Drive one.  My 2010 GS350 is a dream compared to 2021 rentals I have driven with raspy engines, ghastly interiors and appalling handling.

Just Joe

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2021, 07:45:40 AM »
And if you don't really want a new car, why not buy a collectible car and just maintain it in a garage. Drive it occasionally. Then sell it when you are ready to move on for similar or more money than you purchased it for and park the $50K somewhere you like such as an investment account.

Such a generous gift but what if a person doesn't want a car or want a car right now?

GuitarStv

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2021, 08:01:12 AM »
3. Toyota sedan - pros: dependable to 150K min, cheap insurance, cheap to maintain, does not attract unwanted attention - cons: cant haul a lot, gas (for the hybrids).
Here's the secret to hauling stuff in a sedan: slap a permanent roof rack on it. It will match any "naked" SUV's cargo capacity, and then some. You can carry skis, snowboards, surfboards, mountain bikes, kayaks, or just a huge roof box. It's insanely versatile and you don't need to settle for a vehicle with poor fuel efficiency the rest of the time.

Combine that with a backseat that folds flat and you will be pleasantly surprised at how much gear you can travel with, at 40+ MPG.

And if that is still not enough, sedans have some towing capacity. My puny corolla is rated for 1,500 lbs of trailer.

Small cars, well utilized, rule.

Our 2005 Corolla fits 14 ten foot 2x4s with just the rear seat folded down.  It's incredible how much space there is if you're a little creative.

40 mpg might be a big ask with a roof rack - my understanding is that they tend to hurt fuel economy a fair amount.

jehovasfitness23

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2021, 08:41:38 AM »
hands down RAV4 Prime XSE premium trim, about $49k

40 miles EV range plus all options.
Ditto this. I've been dreaming about getting a Rav 4 prime when my current car craps out.

it will be our next car for the wife. Probably wont' get the premium package as that's $7k, but would be nice to have the pano roof and bird view camera. The regular XSE prime will suffice. $35k after tax credit

innkeeper77

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2021, 09:22:50 AM »
3. Toyota sedan - pros: dependable to 150K min, cheap insurance, cheap to maintain, does not attract unwanted attention - cons: cant haul a lot, gas (for the hybrids).
Here's the secret to hauling stuff in a sedan: slap a permanent roof rack on it. It will match any "naked" SUV's cargo capacity, and then some. You can carry skis, snowboards, surfboards, mountain bikes, kayaks, or just a huge roof box. It's insanely versatile and you don't need to settle for a vehicle with poor fuel efficiency the rest of the time.

Combine that with a backseat that folds flat and you will be pleasantly surprised at how much gear you can travel with, at 40+ MPG.

And if that is still not enough, sedans have some towing capacity. My puny corolla is rated for 1,500 lbs of trailer.

Small cars, well utilized, rule.

Our 2005 Corolla fits 14 ten foot 2x4s with just the rear seat folded down.  It's incredible how much space there is if you're a little creative.

40 mpg might be a big ask with a roof rack - my understanding is that they tend to hurt fuel economy a fair amount.

That is correct- but if you have the roof rack RAILS, they shouldn't affect much- only when something is on them are they a problem. I used to drive a subaru wagon, and when the crossbars were installed there was a fair bit of wind noise and noticably worse fuel economy. Not in use? Just a couple of bolts to pop them off. The rails that go front to back have only a tiny surface area in the wind and could probably be left on at all times.

DeniseNJ

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2021, 09:40:54 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQWGHE7NTUA
ChrisFix bought his dad a five yr old Maserati in prime condition for $30K.

But if your family member just wants to brag that they bought you an expensive car, you can buy a POS. That will teach them--They'll be like, "We bought so and so a CAR!" and ppl will be like, "A 2010 Hyundai Elantra?!"

If it were me, I'd say no thank you. But if they are not actually jerks, then buy something nice that you need with all the upgrades. You can get a nice Lexus for under 50K. They are toyotas and have hybrids too.

RWD

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2021, 10:00:25 AM »
And if you don't really want a new car, why not buy a collectible car and just maintain it in a garage. Drive it occasionally. Then sell it when you are ready to move on for similar or more money than you purchased it for and park the $50K somewhere you like such as an investment account.

Such a generous gift but what if a person doesn't want a car or want a car right now?

This is probably the best option if the car isn't needed. A good condition classic mid-90s sports car like a Acura NSX can be had for under $50k and is pretty much guaranteed to not depreciate and maintenance costs are reasonable as well (especially if you aren't driving it much).

Though since the OP is asking for something that will last 150k miles with high fuel efficiency I suspect the plan is this would be a daily driver type of vehicle. Hence my earlier recommendation for an EV. Certain electric cars are not depreciating quickly and will be the highest efficiency one can buy.

Dicey

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2021, 10:10:55 AM »
I drive a Venza and love it. I can haul so much stuff in it and it's a very comfortable cruiser. Seats four pretty luxuriously. Toyota has just re-introduced it as a hybrid. I peeked at the stickers on the dealership lot (After hours, of course) and they're just enough under $50k, so the out the door price should use up all of that gift.

I am now planning to wait until I can snag one of these hybrid babies used in about three years or so. Except by then, my 2014 model will be just barely broken in...

Paul der Krake

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2021, 10:14:03 AM »
3. Toyota sedan - pros: dependable to 150K min, cheap insurance, cheap to maintain, does not attract unwanted attention - cons: cant haul a lot, gas (for the hybrids).
Here's the secret to hauling stuff in a sedan: slap a permanent roof rack on it. It will match any "naked" SUV's cargo capacity, and then some. You can carry skis, snowboards, surfboards, mountain bikes, kayaks, or just a huge roof box. It's insanely versatile and you don't need to settle for a vehicle with poor fuel efficiency the rest of the time.

Combine that with a backseat that folds flat and you will be pleasantly surprised at how much gear you can travel with, at 40+ MPG.

And if that is still not enough, sedans have some towing capacity. My puny corolla is rated for 1,500 lbs of trailer.

Small cars, well utilized, rule.

Our 2005 Corolla fits 14 ten foot 2x4s with just the rear seat folded down.  It's incredible how much space there is if you're a little creative.

40 mpg might be a big ask with a roof rack - my understanding is that they tend to hurt fuel economy a fair amount.

That is correct- but if you have the roof rack RAILS, they shouldn't affect much- only when something is on them are they a problem. I used to drive a subaru wagon, and when the crossbars were installed there was a fair bit of wind noise and noticably worse fuel economy. Not in use? Just a couple of bolts to pop them off. The rails that go front to back have only a tiny surface area in the wind and could probably be left on at all times.
That's weird. The rack (i.e. just the crossbars bars, nothing on it) don't change the fuel economy that I can observe on my car. If I stack 3 surfboards and pay real close attention, I will notice a bit of a difference. Like, 2 MPG worse at highway speeds.

But yes, in general, the bigger the roof cargo, the more drag. I would not be surprised to see my corolla drop 10 MPG if I put a huge box on top. I posit that it's still much better than the alternative, which is a larger car that gets poor fuel economy all day every day.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2021, 10:31:24 AM »
Outside the box suggestion? A 4wd truck or body on frame SUV (preferably with 4 doors). They have ridiculously strong resale value (minimal depreciation) and widespread appeal.
If I didn't care about my benefactor's feelings, I'd buy said 4WD, immediately turn around and sell it, buy a used Toyota Sienna, and invest the difference.

If I *did* care about their feelings, I'd buy said 4WD and drive it for a year or two before implementing the same plan.  You wouldn't take *too* big of a depreciation hit, Rich Relative gets the good vibes for helping you out, and by then, Rich Relative may be expecting you to trade it in anyway.

the_fixer

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2021, 10:35:30 AM »
Ford transit van that you can live in? housing and transportation both covered think of all the money you will save on rent!

Or something like a nice Honda or Toyota, since they are paying splurge for the pre paid maintenance and a long extended factory warranty :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JLee

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2021, 10:45:34 AM »
Outside the box suggestion? A 4wd truck or body on frame SUV (preferably with 4 doors). They have ridiculously strong resale value (minimal depreciation) and widespread appeal.
If I didn't care about my benefactor's feelings, I'd buy said 4WD, immediately turn around and sell it, buy a used Toyota Sienna, and invest the difference.

If I *did* care about their feelings, I'd buy said 4WD and drive it for a year or two before implementing the same plan.  You wouldn't take *too* big of a depreciation hit, Rich Relative gets the good vibes for helping you out, and by then, Rich Relative may be expecting you to trade it in anyway.

If you're going to sell in a year, buy a Tesla - it'll probably be worth the same.

Just Joe

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #75 on: April 08, 2021, 10:52:21 AM »
Could you buy and drive and trade down later (soon) b/c the chosen car is too big or too thirsty? Gee, I chose the wrong vehicle after all... This ACME Economizer commuter car fits my needs perfectly. Isn't it cute?

Plenty of really nice highway/touring vehicles that would be miserable to use anywhere but the highway due to fuel cost and navigating a city with an extra large vehicle. 

Sandi_k

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #76 on: April 08, 2021, 10:52:40 AM »

A Toyota (Rav4 or Prius) have the most history on dependability, repair, insurance, etc. I honestly don't know how to turn a Corolla or Camry into a Lexus by adding trims...any suggestions?

Buy the new hybrid Venza. Much more of a classic crossover than the Toyota RAV4 hybrid, but it uses the same engine and drivetrain, and gets ~ 40 mpg. Also, since it's not a pure EV, you can travel any range for road trips.

And of course, you can certainly buy one of the Lexus models (used for the 450h, since $50k won't get you new):

- RX 450h hybrid, is a larger SUV, and only gets 30 mpg. It's 192.5 inches long
- the NX300h gets 25cmpg in mixed driving, and it's 182.3 inches long

- the Toyota RAV4 hybrid (non-prime, so you don't need a fancy wall charger) gets 41 mpg, and is 180.9" long
- the Toyota Venza hybrid gets about the same as the RAV4 (same drivetrain & engine) and is 186.6" long.

use2betrix

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #77 on: April 08, 2021, 11:06:20 AM »
Right now, I’d probably get a new bronco if it was going to be a Daily Driver..


EliteZags

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #78 on: April 08, 2021, 12:41:48 PM »
OP Here -...

..

A Toyota (Rav4 or Prius) have the most history on dependability, repair, insurance, etc. I honestly don't know how to turn a Corolla or Camry into a Lexus by adding trims...any suggestions?

You can’t turn a Toyota into a Lexus just by adding leather seats or power windows. Lexi are a completely different level of serenity and smoothness due to the drivetrain, sound proofing, interior materials, etc.  Drive one.  My 2010 GS350 is a dream compared to 2021 rentals I have driven with raspy engines, ghastly interiors and appalling handling.

wait wait wait holdup... they make POWER windows now???
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 12:51:45 PM by EliteZags »

Paper Chaser

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #79 on: April 08, 2021, 01:57:00 PM »

A Toyota (Rav4 or Prius) have the most history on dependability, repair, insurance, etc. I honestly don't know how to turn a Corolla or Camry into a Lexus by adding trims...any suggestions?

- the Toyota RAV4 hybrid (non-prime, so you don't need a fancy wall charger) gets 41 mpg, and is 180.9" long
- the Toyota Venza hybrid gets about the same as the RAV4 (same drivetrain & engine) and is 186.6" long.

The Prime (and most PHEVs) don't require a special charger. You can plug them into a normal outlet with the cord that comes with the car and probably get about 4 miles of range for every hour that it's plugged in. With the RAV4 Prime's max EV range of 40 miles, it could likely be charged from empty to full in a typical 10hr overnight period. If you want faster charging, you'll need 240v outlet and an appropriate cord. Getting a 240v outlet installed may be expensive but it could also be pretty reasonable if it's an easy situation. It just depends. But that's likely to be the most expensive part, because you can get car chargers for a couple hundred bucks. Even if you spent $2k on an outlet and charger, it's still less than the sales tax on a $40k vehicle, and most drivers would make that difference up pretty quickly in fuel savingsfrom the PHEV vs the regular hybrid.

JLee

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #80 on: April 08, 2021, 01:58:51 PM »

A Toyota (Rav4 or Prius) have the most history on dependability, repair, insurance, etc. I honestly don't know how to turn a Corolla or Camry into a Lexus by adding trims...any suggestions?

- the Toyota RAV4 hybrid (non-prime, so you don't need a fancy wall charger) gets 41 mpg, and is 180.9" long
- the Toyota Venza hybrid gets about the same as the RAV4 (same drivetrain & engine) and is 186.6" long.

The Prime (and most PHEVs) don't require a special charger. You can plug them into a normal outlet with the cord that comes with the car and probably get about 4 miles of range for every hour that it's plugged in. With the RAV4 Prime's max EV range of 40 miles, it could likely be charged from empty to full in a typical 10hr overnight period. If you want faster charging, you'll need 240v outlet and an appropriate cord. Getting a 240v outlet installed may be expensive but it could also be pretty reasonable if it's an easy situation. It just depends. But that's likely to be the most expensive part, because you can get car chargers for a couple hundred bucks. Even if you spent $2k on an outlet and charger, it's still less than the sales tax on a $40k vehicle, and most drivers would make that difference up pretty quickly in fuel savingsfrom the PHEV vs the regular hybrid.

If you have a sub panel in your garage, it shouldn't be much -- my electrician charged $150 to install my 14-50 outlet and I am using the charger that came with my car for 32 amp 240v charging.

GuitarStv

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #81 on: April 08, 2021, 02:10:32 PM »
OP Here -...

..

A Toyota (Rav4 or Prius) have the most history on dependability, repair, insurance, etc. I honestly don't know how to turn a Corolla or Camry into a Lexus by adding trims...any suggestions?

You can’t turn a Toyota into a Lexus just by adding leather seats or power windows. Lexi are a completely different level of serenity and smoothness due to the drivetrain, sound proofing, interior materials, etc.  Drive one.  My 2010 GS350 is a dream compared to 2021 rentals I have driven with raspy engines, ghastly interiors and appalling handling.

wait wait wait holdup... they make POWER windows now???

They're a downgrade in every way from regular windows . . . more expensive, easier to break, and heavier.  Simple machines FTW.

JLee

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #82 on: April 08, 2021, 02:13:36 PM »
OP Here -...

..

A Toyota (Rav4 or Prius) have the most history on dependability, repair, insurance, etc. I honestly don't know how to turn a Corolla or Camry into a Lexus by adding trims...any suggestions?

You can’t turn a Toyota into a Lexus just by adding leather seats or power windows. Lexi are a completely different level of serenity and smoothness due to the drivetrain, sound proofing, interior materials, etc.  Drive one.  My 2010 GS350 is a dream compared to 2021 rentals I have driven with raspy engines, ghastly interiors and appalling handling.

wait wait wait holdup... they make POWER windows now???

They're a downgrade in every way from regular windows . . . more expensive, easier to break, and heavier.  Simple machines FTW.

I don't know about every way -- at least you can safely roll the back and passenger windows up/down without having to pull over :P

Just Joe

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #83 on: April 08, 2021, 02:30:57 PM »
They're a downgrade in every way from regular windows . . . more expensive, easier to break, and heavier.  Simple machines FTW.

I don't know - they are pretty nice when I climb in my old four door car after work and it is 98F in the summer (no a/c anymore due to the age of the vehicle) and I can push buttons to lower the windows. And then raise them again if I drive through a sudden rain shower. Both can happen without pulling over or crawling around the inside of the car.

I've changed out power window motors in different cars. Not hard to DIY. Not very expensive these days either - depending on the make and model of the car in question. 

RWD

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #84 on: April 08, 2021, 02:32:26 PM »
wait wait wait holdup... they make POWER windows now???

They're a downgrade in every way from regular windows . . . more expensive, easier to break, and heavier.  Simple machines FTW.

Power windows can be lighter than hand-crank. That was the case for Lotus 15 year ago (source). And if any company understands the lightest way to build a car it's Lotus.

anotherAlias

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #85 on: April 08, 2021, 02:43:44 PM »
FWIW the Kona is about the size of a Tesla 3 or Nissan Leaf. A RAV4 is much larger.

The Kona is marketed as an SUV but it is really a FWD car. It is a subcompact SUV like the Honda HRV.

Sort of.  The Kona sits a bit higher than a car.  My 78yo arthritic mom just bought one because regular cars are too low for her to get out of easily and the pickup she was driving was too high.  For the OP, it probably doesn't matter but for anyone else that might be interested it might be relevant.  Personally I prefer Hyundai's for the bang for the buck.  I bought a new Tuscon just before the pandemic and love it.  If I was the OP I would get one of the higher trim Tuscons...but I'm biased toward Hyundai's.

GuitarStv

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #86 on: April 08, 2021, 03:00:25 PM »
OP Here -...

..

A Toyota (Rav4 or Prius) have the most history on dependability, repair, insurance, etc. I honestly don't know how to turn a Corolla or Camry into a Lexus by adding trims...any suggestions?

You can’t turn a Toyota into a Lexus just by adding leather seats or power windows. Lexi are a completely different level of serenity and smoothness due to the drivetrain, sound proofing, interior materials, etc.  Drive one.  My 2010 GS350 is a dream compared to 2021 rentals I have driven with raspy engines, ghastly interiors and appalling handling.

wait wait wait holdup... they make POWER windows now???

They're a downgrade in every way from regular windows . . . more expensive, easier to break, and heavier.  Simple machines FTW.

I don't know about every way -- at least you can safely roll the back and passenger windows up/down without having to pull over :P

Distance to lever was never an obstacle to my dad's highway speeds.  He developed a special form of yoga just for unwinding windows.

Chris22

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #87 on: April 08, 2021, 04:45:34 PM »
We’re going to most likely buy my wife a $50k Highlander Platinum this summer, so...that. It’s “practical” because it’s not the $65k Acura MDX she though she wanted until she looked at the spec list and realized it was $15k more for...nothing.

Money Badger

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2021, 07:41:51 PM »
The most Mustachian answer is buy 3 used ~100K mile Toyotas from private party, original owner sellers with all records...   Sell 2 immediately and invest the proceeds.   Drive the 3rd until 250K miles...   Use maybe 20% of the investment proceeds from the prior sales equity growth from that 10 year period (assuming 15K miles/year) to buy the next Toyota for cash.   Retire years earlier as the equity compounds nicely.

GuitarStv

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #89 on: April 08, 2021, 08:09:03 PM »
The most Mustachian answer is buy 3 used ~100K mile Toyotas from private party, original owner sellers with all records...   Sell 2 immediately and invest the proceeds.   Drive the 3rd until 250K miles...   Use maybe 20% of the investment proceeds from the prior sales equity growth from that 10 year period (assuming 15K miles/year) to buy the next Toyota for cash.   Retire years earlier as the equity compounds nicely.

I think it would be more mustachian to buy a transit van, sell your house/invest the proceeds, then move into the van and live full time down by the river.

Sid Hoffman

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #90 on: April 08, 2021, 08:09:30 PM »
Kia EV6 / Hyundai Ioniq 5 (releasing later this year)
Jaguar I-PACE (used)
Ford Mustang Mach-E
I'd love to have any one of these, but will likely settle for perhaps buying one when they're 7-10 years old and heavily depreciated but still in great shape. For the purpose of this thread though, yep, any one of those could fit the bill. If we're including used, then maybe a lightly used Polestar 2 (also an electric car) would work also.

RWD

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #91 on: April 08, 2021, 08:15:40 PM »
Kia EV6 / Hyundai Ioniq 5 (releasing later this year)
Jaguar I-PACE (used)
Ford Mustang Mach-E
I'd love to have any one of these, but will likely settle for perhaps buying one when they're 7-10 years old and heavily depreciated but still in great shape. For the purpose of this thread though, yep, any one of those could fit the bill. If we're including used, then maybe a lightly used Polestar 2 (also an electric car) would work also.
Are there even any used Polestar 2s for sale yet? Definitely an excellent option as well though. Very similar to the I-PACE in price/performance. There are going to be some killer deals on luxury EVs in 5-10 years.

MilesTeg

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #92 on: April 09, 2021, 01:00:18 AM »
Couldn't buy a Tesla anymore. Great drive trains, horrible cars.

Sadly the only comparable drive train is a mach-e but Ford crapped the bed copying Tesla's horrific interior design/ergonomics.

Can we pretend the all electric F-150 is ready?

Dicey

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2021, 01:12:48 AM »
Can we pretend the all electric F-150 is ready?
Bit of a non-sequitur here. The other day I parked my 2014 Venza behind DH's 2002 F150. I was surprised to discover that the Venza is substantially wider than the truck. Huh.

Damn, just saw another Venza hybrid on the road. Want one. Want one.

Luke Warm

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #94 on: April 09, 2021, 04:59:05 AM »
a mini van and an A-frame pop-up camper.

LD_TAndK

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #95 on: April 09, 2021, 05:54:57 AM »
I'd go for a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV (starts at 40k). Get to have all the utility of a minivan with a semi-electric vehicle. 32 miles all electric would cut down on a lot of gas usage for myself. No idea how the pacifica hybrid stacks up  on reliability though.

BudgetSlasher

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #96 on: April 09, 2021, 06:30:59 AM »
[snip]

One thing to keep in mind with non-Tesla vehicles:  the various companies that are building charging stations do not share the same tech, so any car may not work on any charger.*  So research compatible options before you buy.

[snip]

*For the rapid chargers.  My recollection is that Teslas will work on any charging station with adapters, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

It is true that any car will not work with any charger, as you say. But today it is basically Tesla (There are some adapters in some countries for using some other rapid charging formats and in Europe they have to use a different one than in the US) and everybody else.

For a while there were 3 formats Tesla, Cademo (IIRC limited to Nissan and Mitsubishi, but big in Japan), and CCS (Everybody else, Europe uses a different CCS type/version). With the Ariya Nissan is moving to the CCS format basically making cademo dead in North America (presumably the leaf will follow and I think Mitsubishi only has a plug in hybrid).

Any non-Tesla should be able to charge at any non-Tesla station, barring technical issues and having an account/correct payment method. My experience today is that charging locations that are being built are 1 cademo and the rest CCS. There are different charging rates (kw) and voltage, but that is all taken care of between the car and the station.

My experience with non-tesla rapid charging has not been trouble finding a compatible charger, it has been technical. We rarely get anywhere need to advertised charging rate (normally 25-50%), random disconnects, touchscreens that don't work (have to adjust the car's charge limit to end the session, rather than from the station), stations that claim you are sharing power even though you are the only car there (and judging by the snow the only car in days). It is annoying and if I had to rely on rapid chargers  in today's infrastructure I probably would get a Tesla (well if I had to rely on rapid chargers I probably wouldn't get an EV).

We do 97+% of our charging in our garage and accepted the car's lower rapid charging rate before we bought it, so any real long-haul is back to a gas car.

JLee

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #97 on: April 09, 2021, 07:28:09 AM »
Couldn't buy a Tesla anymore. Great drive trains, horrible cars.

Sadly the only comparable drive train is a mach-e but Ford crapped the bed copying Tesla's horrific interior design/ergonomics.

Can we pretend the all electric F-150 is ready?

lol, that's certainly an opinion.

YoungGranny

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #98 on: April 09, 2021, 07:32:51 AM »
I got a Tesla Model 3 LR recently and it's a great car. Did a hiking trip 450mi away last weekend and only had to stop once to charge for 20 minutes which was perfect to take a break, eat the lunch I packed and use the restroom. For normal use, slow charging in my garage is perfectly fine. Would definitely recommend since that's the price point you're looking at.

Just Joe

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Re: $50000 Gift - can only be spent on a car!
« Reply #99 on: April 09, 2021, 10:33:21 AM »
We’re going to most likely buy my wife a $50k Highlander Platinum this summer, so...that. It’s “practical” because it’s not the $65k Acura MDX she though she wanted until she looked at the spec list and realized it was $15k more for...nothing.

We have an MDX. Love it. But, we bought it used for less than a new CRV with ~40K miles. We commute in an older car worth zilch.