Author Topic: $433,000 Problem - Updated 1-30-18  (Read 23701 times)

goalphish2002

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
$433,000 Problem - Updated 1-30-18
« on: January 22, 2018, 07:20:44 AM »
The short of it.  My grandparents transferred my dad a property in the hills of West VA.  It isn't worth much- a one bedroom log cabin on a small farm.  We are talking a "Deliverance" area of the hills.  My dad then transferred the property to my sister and me.  He is still alive and has living rights on the property. 

A gas company comes along...  Runs a line...  We are getting a check for $433,000.00. 

My grandparents now want to control it all.  We are being told to sign it over to my dad, who will distribute it amongst his siblings. 

I'm not happy about this.  The land is now worth even less- the gas company will have permanent easements through it.  My inheritance is shot.  I am being offered 10K for my troubles to sign it over.  It's such an insult, I don't even want it. 

***I haven't seen my grandparents in 20 years; they are very controlling and unpleasant people.  They were pretty verbally and physically abusive to me, as a child.  This seems like one more act of dominance before they die. 

To update:  I am signing it over to my Dad.  I couldn't get my sister on board.  As someone pointed out, I am the black sheep of the family.  It is strange being the one who has the most education and is financially doing well that I am not being asked to contribute my opinion.  After having it out with them both, I am resigning myself to letting it go.  I feel like they can all choke on it.  I know this doesn't sound strong or smart.  But, I almost feel a relief because I can legitimately cut some of these people out of my life for good.  It may have cost me a lot of money, but I wasn't expecting it anyway.

So, I talked to my father.  He now wants to give my sister and me about 100K.

I am going to meet with a CPA on this but would like to hear what you guys think.

He seems to think 15K a year is a way to fly under the radar.  I read a parent can gift 30K to married couples.  But, this is to fly under the radar if the person wants to give a cumulative of 5.49 million, which he doesn' have.  I can find any info on the receiver having to pay any taxes.

Can I take the 100K at once?  I just want my money now so I can get this all behind me.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 08:58:25 AM by goalphish2002 »

Freedom2016

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 899
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2018, 07:34:15 AM »
It sounds like all parties are still alive? If yes what do you mean grandparents "willed" a piece of property to someone else who "willed" it to you? I'm only familiar with that term when it's used to describe a transfer of property after someone's death. Who legally owns the land?

Bird In Hand

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2018, 07:35:35 AM »
The short of it.  My grandparents willed my dad a property in the hills of West VA.  It isn't worth much- a one bedroom log cabin on a small farm.  We are talking a "Deliverance" area of the hills.  My dad willed the property to my sister and me.  He is still alive and has living rights on the property. 

A gas company comes along...  Runs a line...  We are getting a check for $433,000.00. 

My grandparents now want to control it all.  We are being told to sign it over to my dad, who will distribute it amongst his siblings. 

I'm not happy about this.  The land is now worth even less- the gas company will have permanent easements through it.  My inheritance is shot.  I am being offered 10K for my troubles to sign it over.  It's such an insult, I don't even want it. 

***I haven't seen my grandparents in 20 years; they are very controlling and unpleasant people.  They were pretty verbally and physically abusive to me, as a child.  This seems like one more act of dominance before they die.

I'm sorry your grandparents were abusive to you.  That really sucks, and they owe you an apology.  That's all they owe you though.

Prior to the gas company coming along, you thought you were going to eventually inherit half of a low-value one bedroom log cabin on a small farm in Deliverance country.  Instead, you're being offered $10k right now.  Awesome, take it and move on.  Invest it or take a once-in-a-lifetime vacation.  Forget about your grandparents, and don't resent your dad or his siblings for their good fortune.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 07:58:56 AM by Bird In Hand »

HawkeyeNFO

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 347
  • Location: Moose Scrotum, Alberta
  • Retired at 44.....back to work at 45
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2018, 07:36:23 AM »
OP changed his original verbage to clarify.  What a sad mess.......
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 05:26:55 PM by HawkeyeNFO »

goalphish2002

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2018, 07:45:12 AM »
I legally own the property with my sister.  It was legally transferred to us.  Maybe "willed" wasn't the right term.  My grandparents legally transferred it to my dad and he legally transferred it to us.  I will have to deal with all of this.  I also might have to pay capital gains since it is in my name.  The 10K might not even cover it.

I don't think I am entitled.  Legally, I could tell them all to kick rocks and walk away with over $200,000.  I am being told to do something that I don't have to do...

I would just appreciate them treading lightly, again, as I am the one having to sign all the lawyer's paperwork and have no information whatsoever about it all.

Again, I own this...   

Lanthiriel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 803
  • Location: Portlandia
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2018, 07:48:14 AM »
Whoa. Lots of jumping to conclusions here. It sounds like family members have been playing hot potato with this property and through title transfers it’s landed in OP’s hands. It seems like the grandparents only want it back because it’s valuable after giving it up because they didn’t want to deal with maintenance or whatever.

OP, if you legally own the land, then you’re well within your rights to keep the money if you’re willing to damage the relationships with the two generations above you to keep it (which I would be too honestly, but every family is different).

frugal rph

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 77
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2018, 07:48:38 AM »
If you own the property with your sister, I would get a lawyer to help you understand what you are signing.  Depending on the family dynamics, I may offer the other family members $10,000 as a goodwill gesture, and save the rest. You .ca. always use it to help them out later if they need it.

mskyle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 691
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2018, 07:48:46 AM »
Oh yeah, if you actually own this outright, you have no legal/monetary obligation to your grandparents. And yeah there's a good chance you will have to pay a lot more than $10K in capital gains tax. Do you have your own lawyer? If not, get one now! And an accountant probably too.

I would just appreciate them treading lightly, again, as I am the one having to sign all the lawyer's paperwork and have no information whatsoever about it all.
And don't sign papers you don't understand!


brute

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 691
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2018, 07:52:11 AM »
If they want it, they can pay market value. Don't give in to jerks.

Bird In Hand

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2018, 07:52:53 AM »
I legally own the property with my sister.  It was legally transferred to us.  Maybe "willed" wasn't the right term.  My grandparents legally transferred it to my dad and he legally transferred it to us.  I will have to deal with all of this.  I also might have to pay capital gains since it is in my name.  The 10K might not even cover it.

I don't think I am entitled.  Legally, I could tell them all to kick rocks and walk away with over $200,000.  I am being told to do something that I don't have to do...

I would just appreciate them treading lightly, again, as I am the one having to sign all the lawyer's paperwork and have no information whatsoever about it all.

Again, I own this...   

You should update your OP to be more clear -- otherwise you can expect to get many more replies accusing you of an entitled attitude.

better late

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 488
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2018, 07:56:18 AM »
I'm sorry your grandparents were abusive. Here they are bullying you again.

Bird In Hand

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2018, 07:58:16 AM »
So now we understand you and your sister, the legal owners of the property, are going to receive a check for $433k.  And your grandparents, with no legal right to the property (they willed it away when they thought it was not worth anything), want you to give the $$ to your dad and his siblings.

That's very different than what I understood the situation to be originally.

How does your sister feel about it?

CoffeeR

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Location: Southwest
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2018, 08:03:29 AM »
I am not a lawyer, I do not give legal advise. If you own the property it seems to me the money generated from the property is yours. It depends on what the actual agreement you signed (I presume) states. Get a lawyer. Verify. If you are legally entitled to the money *AND* you are willing to live with the damage this will do to family relationships, then tell them to take a hike. Tell them no. Take a stand. If need be, sever ties. Move on with your life.

Of course, family never tends to be this simple, but if the relationship was abusive at any time, taking a stand might be a real good idea.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 08:05:10 AM by CoffeeR »

CoffeeR

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Location: Southwest
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2018, 08:08:30 AM »

... also, under NO circumstances sign anything without an accountant having gone over this. Make sure you understand the tax consequences of what you are doing. Worst case scenario you owe taxes on the money (which you no longer have) and you owe gift taxes on the money you gifted to your grandparents. Ouch. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING without checking with an accountant (at minimum). A lawyer is probably a good idea as well.

Frankies Girl

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3899
  • Age: 86
  • Location: The oubliette.
  • Ghouls Just Wanna Have Funds!
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2018, 08:11:26 AM »
Okay, to clarify - "willing" the land isn't the correct term and is confusing everyone. You meant they gave it to you so it is legally yours and the sibling.

This is what I get from reading the thread:

You and sister outright own land.

Was pretty much worthless and you didn't have any real plans to do much with it?

Your dad can go hang out there as long as he's alive, but has no legal rights to change anything on it - just visiting/living on the property if he so chooses.

Gas company ran lines and are offering YOU & SIBLING AS LEGAL OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY a (one time or more time or what?) payment of $433,000.00? This is a done deal, right? It's yours and sibling's money then. Your land, your money. No one can swoop in and take it if you have the ownership and all the legal stuff in your name. Unless you just want to hand over the money... I wouldn't.

You say your inheritance is shot? Why? You had no real plans for the land anyway right? SO a rural cabin off in the woods, even with a permanent easement isn't that big of a deal as long as the gas company paid for the easement and maintains it and maybe give you a bit of money each year to access their easement (I have no idea how that works). So therefore this otherwise worthless land means you are now receiving an "inheritance" of almost half a million to split with a sibling? That's pretty amazing, actually.

The grandparents most likely can be ignored, if you wish. Obviously you should go see a lawyer and ask them if the grandparents have any legal standing to demand for you to sign over the land to them, but likely they'll say hell no, okay you and sister to tell them to go pound sand. Which is kind of what I'd do. Either ignore them completely, or have a lawyer draft a letter to tell them to kindly go fuck themselves in legalese.

Or like brute said, tell them they can buy the land back for whatever it is worth now. If you don't want to deal with it later or the gas line somehow ruined the view or something, you can sell it to ANYONE, just offer it to the grandparents at market rate first if you really want to (but you don't have to unless there is something specifically in legal terms that prevents this). But you and sibling still keep the gas line payout.

So TL/DR:

Your land? Then, your money. Confirm everything with lawyer. Do what you (and sibling) want once confirmed of your legal standing.

tomorrowsomewherenew

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 147
  • Location: Florida
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2018, 08:13:45 AM »
If this land is legally yours, then I would not give anyone money, nor would I sign it over to another family member just because they said so. You own the land, it's your money. Your family members are being real jerks right now. You caving to their unreasonable demands isn't going to help the situation.

BFGirl

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2018, 08:16:29 AM »
Talk to a lawyer and an accountant before you do anything.  There are tax consequences to this.  I wouldn't feel pressured by your grandparents to sign something. 

MrUpwardlyMobile

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
    • The Upwardly Mobile Life
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2018, 08:29:07 AM »
Talk to a lawyer and an accountant before you do anything.  There are tax consequences to this.  I wouldn't feel pressured by your grandparents to sign something.

Please speak with a lawyer in the state where the property is located.  You need to understand the nature of each transfer of property (to the extent any transfers properly happened) and the rights of everyone in valves (to the extent anyone has rights). Unless you confer with a property lawyer familiar with the state laws at issue, you will almost assuredly screw this up royally.  The lawyer can find out the tax implications but the most important thing is talk to a lawyer.  Please don’t go screw up your finances because you think you understand what has occurred or because people on an internet message board told you things that may or may not be true.

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. There is not an attorney client relationship between us and there is no offer to represent you in any capacity.

goalphish2002

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2018, 08:39:22 AM »
I legally own the property with my sister.  It was legally transferred to us.  Maybe "willed" wasn't the right term.  My grandparents legally transferred it to my dad and he legally transferred it to us.  I will have to deal with all of this.  I also might have to pay capital gains since it is in my name.  The 10K might not even cover it.

I don't think I am entitled.  Legally, I could tell them all to kick rocks and walk away with over $200,000.  I am being told to do something that I don't have to do...

I would just appreciate them treading lightly, again, as I am the one having to sign all the lawyer's paperwork and have no information whatsoever about it all.

Again, I own this...   

Thanks.  Updated for clarity...

You should update your OP to be more clear -- otherwise you can expect to get many more replies accusing you of an entitled attitude.

goalphish2002

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2018, 08:40:52 AM »
Oh yeah, if you actually own this outright, you have no legal/monetary obligation to your grandparents. And yeah there's a good chance you will have to pay a lot more than $10K in capital gains tax. Do you have your own lawyer? If not, get one now! And an accountant probably too.

I would just appreciate them treading lightly, again, as I am the one having to sign all the lawyer's paperwork and have no information whatsoever about it all.
And don't sign papers you don't understand!

I will do this.

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8683
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2018, 08:42:23 AM »
Keep the property or at least the value from the property if you want to sell it. If you are feeling generous give the grandparents and your dad $10K each as someone suggested and if they are unhappy about that tell them to pound salt.

goalphish2002

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2018, 08:42:31 AM »
So now we understand you and your sister, the legal owners of the property, are going to receive a check for $433k.  And your grandparents, with no legal right to the property (they willed it away when they thought it was not worth anything), want you to give the $$ to your dad and his siblings.

That's very different than what I understood the situation to be originally.

How does your sister feel about it?

Yes.  This is the situation.  She feels like she should do what is asked of her.  She has a more typical relationship with them. 

goalphish2002

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2018, 08:45:34 AM »
Okay, to clarify - "willing" the land isn't the correct term and is confusing everyone. You meant they gave it to you so it is legally yours and the sibling.

This is what I get from reading the thread:

You and sister outright own land.

Was pretty much worthless and you didn't have any real plans to do much with it?

Your dad can go hang out there as long as he's alive, but has no legal rights to change anything on it - just visiting/living on the property if he so chooses.

Gas company ran lines and are offering YOU & SIBLING AS LEGAL OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY a (one time or more time or what?) payment of $433,000.00? This is a done deal, right? It's yours and sibling's money then. Your land, your money. No one can swoop in and take it if you have the ownership and all the legal stuff in your name. Unless you just want to hand over the money... I wouldn't.

You say your inheritance is shot? Why? You had no real plans for the land anyway right? SO a rural cabin off in the woods, even with a permanent easement isn't that big of a deal as long as the gas company paid for the easement and maintains it and maybe give you a bit of money each year to access their easement (I have no idea how that works). So therefore this otherwise worthless land means you are now receiving an "inheritance" of almost half a million to split with a sibling? That's pretty amazing, actually.

The grandparents most likely can be ignored, if you wish. Obviously you should go see a lawyer and ask them if the grandparents have any legal standing to demand for you to sign over the land to them, but likely they'll say hell no, okay you and sister to tell them to go pound sand. Which is kind of what I'd do. Either ignore them completely, or have a lawyer draft a letter to tell them to kindly go fuck themselves in legalese.

Or like brute said, tell them they can buy the land back for whatever it is worth now. If you don't want to deal with it later or the gas line somehow ruined the view or something, you can sell it to ANYONE, just offer it to the grandparents at market rate first if you really want to (but you don't have to unless there is something specifically in legal terms that prevents this). But you and sibling still keep the gas line payout.

So TL/DR:

Your land? Then, your money. Confirm everything with lawyer. Do what you (and sibling) want once confirmed of your legal standing.

Basically, you've covered it.  What I meant by my inheritance is shot is that they want the 400K and leave us with the property, that is now worth less because of the gas lines and easements.  It will be worth less when sold. 

PhilB

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5705
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2018, 08:58:39 AM »
Just to ensure the other side of the argument gets a fair hearing - what if the grandparents always wanted to distribute things evenly and fairly amongst their kids?  How do they feel now it turns out one kid's share was actually worth way more than anyone else's?  As if everyone else got the reproductions and your dad turned out to have a genuine Van Gogh?  You could say that your branch of the family was legally entitled to keep it, but there's quite a moral case to be made for abiding by the gransparents' original intentions.

koshtra

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 664
  • Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
    • Mole
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2018, 09:03:14 AM »
Whatever you do, don't give anything to anyone until your expenses, including your legal fees, are totally paid.

Clearly, your grandparents did not actually intend to give you this land, if they still feel entitled to its income. Make clear to them that they misled you and that there could have been hard feelings, if you actually gave a shit.

My impulse would be to settle everything up, pay all expenses out of that check, and then give whatever's left, and your half of the land, to your sister, and let her deal with it. But I have a violent allergy to this sort of not-really-gift.

In no case would I bear any of the expenses.

L2

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Ohio
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2018, 09:04:31 AM »
Screw the grandparents. They aren't any of your concern. They gave the property to your dad. Your dad gave the property to you. Their beef should be with your dad, not you. They didn't give you anything.

One solution I'd entertain is paying your dad the fair value the land minus the pipeline easement/mineral rights to maybe make everyone feel "whole".  Of course there are about a million solutions you could come up with (one of them being not paying anybody because its yours!), but I don't think it is fair at all for your grandparents to expect you to give them something because they didn't give it to you.

Also, I am from Southeast Ohio where the oil & gas is prevalent as well. I don't know exactly where you are in WV, but BE CAREFUL on giving the land back, or if you do, make sure you keep the mineral rights. You could unknowingly be giving up MILLIONS in royalty payments if they decide to drill on/under that land.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 09:08:54 AM by L2 »

accolay

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2018, 09:13:08 AM »
Talk to a lawyer. If you're in a mood for revenge, send them a crisp $2 bill in a nice card. It probably wont make you feel any better, but it will piss them off.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8186
  • Location: United States
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2018, 09:32:56 AM »
Agree with talking to a lawyer.

The companies who buy/sell mineral/gas rights are leaches who screw over homeowners who don't know any better.  Do not make the decision lightly.
Also, if you own the property, you grandparents have no say in this.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 09:44:37 AM by iowajes »

MindfulMoney

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 09:41:06 AM »
Sounds like they are real a-holes. You don't owe them anything and talk to a real-estate attorney before you and/or your sister sign or do anything. CYA.

Most likely they aren't being fully forth coming anyways... are they really  going to distribute it evenly amount your dads siblings? You could always do that yourself if you wanted to :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Location: Seattle
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2018, 09:42:06 AM »
Why do you feel like you have to do anything for them? Doesn't sound like they have any right or claim.

Gimesalot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 664
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2018, 09:51:45 AM »
Honestly, I feel like no matter what you do, your grandparents will be mad.  At a minimum, you should use the money to cover your legal fees and taxes.  Then if you like, distribute the rest.  The kicker is that people will be upset that you even spent any of it to cover your expenses.  So I feel like there is no wining solution here.  That leads me to believe that you should focus on the best result for you, which sounds like it's best to keep as much of the money for yourself and cut out the crap family from your life.  Depending on the relationship with your father and his siblings, you could throw them a bone and gift them some cash.

But of course, visit a lawyer first to make sure that you are the rightful owner and all that jazz.

cats

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1232
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2018, 09:52:50 AM »
Just to ensure the other side of the argument gets a fair hearing - what if the grandparents always wanted to distribute things evenly and fairly amongst their kids?  How do they feel now it turns out one kid's share was actually worth way more than anyone else's?  As if everyone else got the reproductions and your dad turned out to have a genuine Van Gogh?  You could say that your branch of the family was legally entitled to keep it, but there's quite a moral case to be made for abiding by the gransparents' original intentions.

This is the one argument I would say is in favor of not keeping all the $$ yourself (which it sounds like you are within your rights to do, from what you have posted here).  If you have cousins whom you get along with, you might consider talking with your sister about just splitting the money between all the grandchildren and bypassing your grandparents completely.  Assuming your grandparents are asking for the money because they want to distribute it equally among grandchildren, of course...

Also seems that you could keep your half of the money and let your sister do what she wants with hers.  Is there any reason why you two have to make the same decision on the payment?

Jrr85

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1200
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2018, 09:53:16 AM »

Basically, you've covered it.  What I meant by my inheritance is shot is that they want the 400K and leave us with the property, that is now worth less because of the gas lines and easements.  It will be worth less when sold.

That may or may not be true.  Where I live, gas lines typically don't have a large negative impact on the value of the land, if it's a decent sized track of land and not something that would otherwise be developed as residential or something.  Some people even like them because they give them a permanently maintained clear lane that they hunt over. 

Just an FYI if and when you eventually do go to sell it.  Don't assume the property's value is really decreased by $400k (or anywhere near that). 

jms493

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 118
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2018, 09:55:58 AM »
Keep the land in you and your sisters name.  Gift your grandparents a portion of the money.  Tell them to take it or leave it.  Since you dont have a relationship with them no you aren't losing much.

The whole gifting of property prior to death is usually not smart and ends up causing problems.  it should have just been transferred when they died according to a will.  Your cost basis would have been whatever the property is worth at the time of death.

Dont give it back.

Bird In Hand

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2018, 09:57:37 AM »
Just to ensure the other side of the argument gets a fair hearing - what if the grandparents always wanted to distribute things evenly and fairly amongst their kids?  How do they feel now it turns out one kid's share was actually worth way more than anyone else's?  As if everyone else got the reproductions and your dad turned out to have a genuine Van Gogh?  You could say that your branch of the family was legally entitled to keep it, but there's quite a moral case to be made for abiding by the gransparents' original intentions.

Agreed.  It's easier said than done, but I think you should consider how your aunts/uncles/cousins may feel.  It's going to be harder for you to care about your grandparent's wishes since you feel they've wronged you in the past.  Had they not wronged you, would you be more open to settling whatever expenses you might incur and returning the rest to your dad and his siblings?

I think the whole thing is a fascinating moral dilemma -- one that I'm glad I don't have to deal with.

bacchi

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7056
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2018, 09:58:52 AM »
Most likely they aren't being fully forth coming anyways... are they really  going to distribute it evenly amount your dads siblings? You could always do that yourself if you wanted to :)

Do this. Take advantage of the yearly maximum on cash gifts and gift your aunts and uncles some cash. Forget the middleman.

clutchy

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2018, 10:03:27 AM »
I legally own the property with my sister.  It was legally transferred to us.  Maybe "willed" wasn't the right term.  My grandparents legally transferred it to my dad and he legally transferred it to us.  I will have to deal with all of this.  I also might have to pay capital gains since it is in my name.  The 10K might not even cover it.

I don't think I am entitled.  Legally, I could tell them all to kick rocks and walk away with over $200,000.  I am being told to do something that I don't have to do...

I would just appreciate them treading lightly, again, as I am the one having to sign all the lawyer's paperwork and have no information whatsoever about it all.

Again, I own this...   

So you need to actually protect yourself in this deal.  Lots of things going on with incompetent people who just want want want. 

Since you own the land the check is coming to you.  This means tax... and LOTS of it. 

You WILL NOT take anything OR pay anything until you work all those numbers out.  That cash will disappear immediately as soon as gets moved to whoever they are planning to move it to. 


1. Decide if you even want to split it.
2. Protect yourself

I'd be inclined to keep the cash honestly...  they literally disavowed the property when they willed it over.  Just b/c it's worth something now doesn't mean they get to change their minds. 


Just remember you'll get a 1099 with $215k of cap gains this year.  How much tax is that? think this through....
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 10:05:20 AM by clutchy »

koshtra

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 664
  • Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
    • Mole
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2018, 10:10:48 AM »
Geez, I didn't even think of the taxes. Yes!

wildbeast

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 597
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2018, 10:12:11 AM »
It's pretty damned shitty of your grandparents to ask for the land back now that it's worth something.  And it's pretty shitty of your dad not to stand up for you.  I'm sorry you grew up in this kind of family.  I know something about it myself.

My mother did something similar to this to me and I made the mistake of giving in.  I was in my early 30's at the time and I wish I had done things differently.  I know it would be hard for you and your sister to say no.  But you have every right to do so. 

Best of luck.

p.s.  you can offer to give them the land and inform them that you and your sister will be keeping the cash.  Might be funny just to watch them have a fit.

Freedom2016

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 899
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2018, 10:16:27 AM »
Along the lines of other questions that have been asked, I'm very curious what your grandparents' intentions were in transferring the property to your dad. Did they transfer other property or valuable items to your dad's siblings?

And then what were your dad's intentions in transferring the property to you and your sister?

I'd probably proceed similar to what a couple of others have suggested:

1) consult attorney and accountant
2) pay all expenses from the $433k windfall
3) divide windfall proceeds between you and your sister
4) you each decide what you want to do with your half of the proceeds. i.e. keep all; distribute some/all to dad/aunts/uncles; give to grandparents. That way neither one of you has to hold a grudge against the other for the different decisions you each want to make.
5) treat disposition of the property itself as a separate issue to be dealt with on its own terms.


wildbeast

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 597
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2018, 10:19:35 AM »
Along the lines of other questions that have been asked, I'm very curious what your grandparents' intentions were in transferring the property to your dad. Did they transfer other property or valuable items to your dad's siblings?

And then what were your dad's intentions in transferring the property to you and your sister?

I'd probably proceed similar to what a couple of others have suggested:

1) consult attorney and accountant
2) pay all expenses from the $433k windfall
3) divide windfall proceeds between you and your sister
4) you each decide what you want to do with your half of the proceeds. i.e. keep all; distribute some/all to dad/aunts/uncles; give to grandparents. That way neither one of you has to hold a grudge against the other for the different decisions you each want to make.
5) treat disposition of the property itself as a separate issue to be dealt with on its own terms.

This is excellent advice. 

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2018, 10:21:09 AM »
I am not sure how I would proceed with this, almost impossible situation.  I do think this;

make sure you get all of your expenses covered.  Then I would have to think long and hard if the money left is worth the energy that my be spent on it. 

MMM is all about doing those things that will make you happy long term, as forgetting about the rest.  This is what you need to decide. 


wenchsenior

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3790
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2018, 10:22:02 AM »
Along the lines of other questions that have been asked, I'm very curious what your grandparents' intentions were in transferring the property to your dad. Did they transfer other property or valuable items to your dad's siblings?

And then what were your dad's intentions in transferring the property to you and your sister?

I'd probably proceed similar to what a couple of others have suggested:

1) consult attorney and accountant
2) pay all expenses from the $433k windfall
3) divide windfall proceeds between you and your sister
4) you each decide what you want to do with your half of the proceeds. i.e. keep all; distribute some/all to dad/aunts/uncles; give to grandparents. That way neither one of you has to hold a grudge against the other for the different decisions you each want to make.
5) treat disposition of the property itself as a separate issue to be dealt with on its own terms.

This is excellent advice.

+1

martyconlonontherun

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2018, 10:35:46 AM »
I could actually see it from the grandparents point of view where they are trying to prematurely settle their estate. They might have wanted to get rid of the task of legally assigning it to someone else when they are old. All of a sudden, the land is worth 1/2 Million bucks and sitting with one spoiled grand child whose doesn't even call me while having the ear of closer relatives who saw their who inheritance go to the black sheep of the family* Who knows the grandpa could've had an agreement with the dad that this was just legal move but a mutual understanding it was the grandparents land until they hit the curb.

I think a key piece missing is the value of the land before/after, and what have other relatives received. I actually like my family so I would probably just hire an accountant, deduct all fees and taxes and try to find a way to redistribute it. I personally wouldn't think its worth the 100k (probably after taxes and fees/splitting with sister) to basically cut off ties with most of my family. You seem to be in a different situation though.

*you seem like an outsider of your family, and like all families I'm sure there is some judging of those that aren't around.

charis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2018, 10:45:41 AM »
Apart from all the advice of getting legal advice, which is paramount -

If they had been really great grandparents who were nice to everyone, would you feel differently?  It sounds like they want to be fair to the rest of their children after giving an unintentionally large gift to your father.  They have may no legal rights here, but I can kind of understand why they might feel the way they do.  You can tell them to completely shove it of course, but the rest of your family will be around a lot longer than the grandparents that you don't like.  How does your father feel about it?

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10880
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2018, 10:45:44 AM »
Along the lines of other questions that have been asked, I'm very curious what your grandparents' intentions were in transferring the property to your dad. Did they transfer other property or valuable items to your dad's siblings?

And then what were your dad's intentions in transferring the property to you and your sister?

I'd probably proceed similar to what a couple of others have suggested:

1) consult attorney and accountant
2) pay all expenses from the $433k windfall
3) divide windfall proceeds between you and your sister
4) you each decide what you want to do with your half of the proceeds. i.e. keep all; distribute some/all to dad/aunts/uncles; give to grandparents. That way neither one of you has to hold a grudge against the other for the different decisions you each want to make.
5) treat disposition of the property itself as a separate issue to be dealt with on its own terms.

This is excellent advice.

+1
+2

SC93

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 605
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2018, 10:59:35 AM »
I don't want this so I'm giving it to someone. Hey wait.... I don't want this piece of crap either so I'm going to give it to someone. Hey now..... wait a damn minute.... some one is going to get quite a bit of money for this thing? Give that damn thing back to me NOW!!

Are you under age 18 years of age? If not, I know you're not but just saying..... they do not tell you what to do. They wanted to take advantage of you and your sister and DUMP a SH!T piece of land on you knowing it wasn't worth a penny but the minuet it's worth something they want it back. They made their bed so now they have to lay in it. This is NOT your problem. Either way it will be a situation where your family is never the same and in that case..... KEEP THE MONEY and tell them to kiss your a$$!

Captain FIRE

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2018, 11:09:14 AM »
Along the lines of other questions that have been asked, I'm very curious what your grandparents' intentions were in transferring the property to your dad. Did they transfer other property or valuable items to your dad's siblings?

And then what were your dad's intentions in transferring the property to you and your sister?

I'd probably proceed similar to what a couple of others have suggested:

1) consult attorney and accountant
2) pay all expenses from the $433k windfall
3) divide windfall proceeds between you and your sister
4) you each decide what you want to do with your half of the proceeds. i.e. keep all; distribute some/all to dad/aunts/uncles; give to grandparents. That way neither one of you has to hold a grudge against the other for the different decisions you each want to make.
5) treat disposition of the property itself as a separate issue to be dealt with on its own terms.

This is excellent advice.

+1
+2
+3

And if it were me, I'd subtract out the value of whatever the others were given before making distributions, if any.

I get that they wanted to divide things equally and while they are alive discovered that they didn't.  It's too bad communications broke down and they didn't ask nicely, which understandably got your back up.  However, on the positive side, you hold the cards, they don't.  They can't force you to turn over the cash/property.  It's your decision.  Don't rush into making a decision - get any facts and info you need first (e.g. cost to you of this windfall) and think about what matters most to you.

Catbert

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3298
  • Location: Southern California
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2018, 11:20:50 AM »
I need to remember this situation so I can relate your story the next time someone posts about waningt to give property away as an "early inheritance".  Just another reason not to do it.

goalphish2002

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
Re: $433,000 Problem
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2018, 11:24:29 AM »
I legally own the property with my sister.  It was legally transferred to us.  Maybe "willed" wasn't the right term.  My grandparents legally transferred it to my dad and he legally transferred it to us.  I will have to deal with all of this.  I also might have to pay capital gains since it is in my name.  The 10K might not even cover it.

I don't think I am entitled.  Legally, I could tell them all to kick rocks and walk away with over $200,000.  I am being told to do something that I don't have to do...

I would just appreciate them treading lightly, again, as I am the one having to sign all the lawyer's paperwork and have no information whatsoever about it all.

Again, I own this...   

Yes.  A 1099 is in the paperwork...

So you need to actually protect yourself in this deal.  Lots of things going on with incompetent people who just want want want. 

Since you own the land the check is coming to you.  This means tax... and LOTS of it. 

You WILL NOT take anything OR pay anything until you work all those numbers out.  That cash will disappear immediately as soon as gets moved to whoever they are planning to move it to. 


1. Decide if you even want to split it.
2. Protect yourself

I'd be inclined to keep the cash honestly...  they literally disavowed the property when they willed it over.  Just b/c it's worth something now doesn't mean they get to change their minds. 


Just remember you'll get a 1099 with $215k of cap gains this year.  How much tax is that? think this through....