Vanguard transfer

[Chicothecat]

Hi all
I wondered if anyone has any issues recently with transfers into Vanguard, I ask as I started a JiSA transfer on 18 April but the transfer still hasn’t happened and their complaints team messaged  to say that I can complaint to the Ombudsman in the next 6 months after which I cannot. I thought I would wait for them to resolve it before doing that but can’t leave it too long. Has anyone got any similar experiences?
Ta 😁

[MisterA]

Yes! me.

I transferred 2 previous SIP pensions into Vanguard, and they took months and months. They were from Scottish Widows and Standard Life (both major UK pension companies)..

I'd like to transfer a fair bit of my current work SIP  pension to Vanguard, but I'm very disheartened after my previous experiences. So in March I requested a £15k transfer as a trial, and I'm still waiting. I've chased them and returned anything they've asked for, but they put he blame on the other provider. I'm close to giving up on the transfer. The only time I get an update is when I enquire, the service is rubbish.

Yes, I guess I could complain to the ombudsman.

[Affable Bear]

I experienced the same thing, I think its a combination of verifying the transfer request, how good the other company is and how willing they are to be 'quick' to transfer things out. I was a bit dubious but I think my Nest one came through after about 3 months so I held on for my other one with Aegon I think it took like another 2 months but I waited as the Nest one came through.

Definitely think it depends on the provider you are transferring from!

[Chicothecat]

Thanks both I just checked with them again and after 6 months the JISA is still awaiting the transfer. They took a month to get a form ‘ready to post’. It’s made me rethink opening a s and s isa with them. Need to look for another provider I think.

[Chicothecat]

A little update. The transfer happened in November eventually so a good 7 months to transfer. They then investigated it and decided £350 would be compensation for my troubles and also would pay me the loss of investments I (my daughter) suffered. They have proceeded to pay me both the two amounts to me twice.
No I haven’t said anything yet.
A duplicate payment was made yesterday 6 weeks after the first. It’s not great admin at all is it? I know a few other people were finding lengthy delays too. I don’t quite know what to think about using them to transfer another pension… makes me nervous!

[Brit71]

I put all my SIPP and ISA pots into one provider (AJ Bell) about a decade ago and I was surprised how easy it seemed.  In fact I thought it was too easy apart from getting a couple of warning leaflets about pension scammers.

But I understand that this has got considerably harder since.  I'm partially transferring my current work pension now and I've noticed that the bureaucracy is generally higher and also read a couple of stories that some providers are being almost deliberately obstructive by weaponising some of the anti-scammer measures - for example never say that you are going to buy foreign shares, even if they're through Investment Trusts.

But a lot of your problems do seem to be due to Vanguard starting a UK retail operation as a new business.  Although I can see them coming through this, it's not at all encouraging.  I suppose with Vanguard you have to treat it like Aldi, it's always going to be considerably less smooth than Waitrose.

[Chicothecat]

Yes there are some definite admin issues there. Otherwise I feel happy with them.
We have a new workplace pension with Aviva and they do have some low TERs on the limited range of funds so I am wondering if I should just transfer it over to Aviva, they also allow partial transfers out so I guess it would give me some flexibility. Apart from fees and admin is there anything else I should consider? Aviva don’t have a huge range of investments to select from which is a downside but otherwise it looks ok.

[Monkeytennis]

My transfer took 3 months, horrible process and digital experience

[Brit71]

I've transferred all my individual shareholdings in my SIPP and ISA to three Vanguard funds.  I've finally made peace with the fact that I haven't been beating the market and that even if I was then I'd need to be doing it by quite a lot to justify the hassle of managing my own investments.

I was wondering what the advantages/disadvantages were with transferring everything to the Vanguard platform?  I see that they seem to charge around £800 less per year than my current platform - I had to double check my maths for that as we're talking about what look like low charges on both providers - and the transfer out charges seem to amount to about £150 in total although I'd really need to check the dealing fees.  I don't think I pay Stamp Duty on funds, but if I do then it would take quite a while to justify selling and rebuying the funds.

The Vanguard charging seems to be on top of the annual charges for their funds.  So I'd be paying 0.15% as a platform charge and (say) 0.1% for a fund.  Is that right?  I'm basing my calculations on this, but obviously if they did both then this would make it a lot more compelling.

But if there really is such a cost difference, I'd like to know people's experiences of the Vanguard platform.  Is the transfer horrible for everyone?

[Affable Bear]

The Vanguard charging seems to be on top of the annual charges for their funds.  So I'd be paying 0.15% as a platform charge and (say) 0.1% for a fund.  Is that right?  I'm basing my calculations on this, but obviously if they did both then this would make it a lot more compelling.

I think your calculations are right, at least this is my understanding although I could be wrong!

The big one is to make sure you arent paying like 1%+ in fees (many default pension funds are like this) as over 35-40 years it adds up to a silly amount, Candid Money have a good calculator to check how much fees will cost you. Using their calculator plugging in a management fee of 1% and 7% return, investing £400 a month over 40 years you pay £227k in fees over that period, compare that to 0.1% management fee and it only costs £25k, which is the difference between just under £1 million and £750k - when I realised this my jaw hit the floor!!

You can check the calculator out here: https://www.candidmoney.com/calculators/investment-charges-impact-calculator

But if there really is such a cost difference, I'd like to know people's experiences of the Vanguard platform.  Is the transfer horrible for everyone?

I think most peoples annoyance comes from the time it takes to transfer the funds in from other pension pots? When I did it with 2 different pensions one took about 3 months and the other 5 months for it to transfer into the account..

Other than that I guess it would come down to how much their fees are in comparison to other companies and what investment options you are looking at. I am aware of people buying Vanguard ETFs through another cheaper platform (I think at the time it was Interactive Investor could be wrong) who have cheaper management/platform fees than Vanguard but they could still benefit from Vanguards investments, it could be worth it but I am lazy and I like Vanguard so I havent bothered, the biggest saving is making sure you arent paying a silly amount in fees (anything from 0.5%+ imo is high)

[Brit71]

The Vanguard charging seems to be on top of the annual charges for their funds.  So I'd be paying 0.15% as a platform charge and (say) 0.1% for a fund.  Is that right?  I'm basing my calculations on this, but obviously if they did both then this would make it a lot more compelling.

I think your calculations are right, at least this is my understanding although I could be wrong!

The big one is to make sure you arent paying like 1%+ in fees (many default pension funds are like this) as over 35-40 years it adds up to a silly amount, Candid Money have a good calculator to check how much fees will cost you. Using their calculator plugging in a management fee of 1% and 7% return, investing £400 a month over 40 years you pay £227k in fees over that period, compare that to 0.1% management fee and it only costs £25k, which is the difference between just under £1 million and £750k - when I realised this my jaw hit the floor!!

You can check the calculator out here: https://www.candidmoney.com/calculators/investment-charges-impact-calculator

But if there really is such a cost difference, I'd like to know people's experiences of the Vanguard platform.  Is the transfer horrible for everyone?

I think most peoples annoyance comes from the time it takes to transfer the funds in from other pension pots? When I did it with 2 different pensions one took about 3 months and the other 5 months for it to transfer into the account..

Other than that I guess it would come down to how much their fees are in comparison to other companies and what investment options you are looking at. I am aware of people buying Vanguard ETFs through another cheaper platform (I think at the time it was Interactive Investor could be wrong) who have cheaper management/platform fees than Vanguard but they could still benefit from Vanguards investments, it could be worth it but I am lazy and I like Vanguard so I havent bothered, the biggest saving is making sure you arent paying a silly amount in fees (anything from 0.5%+ imo is high)

I suspect going for the lowest possible fee is likely to become quite tiresome as the loss leaders get pulled and you compare each year or so.  But we're leaving money on the table when we do this with utilities, so why not treat pension providers as utilities?

Is there a financial penalty for the delay in transfer by being out of the market, or can we get round that by in specie transfers?

[PhilB]

The Vanguard charging seems to be on top of the annual charges for their funds.  So I'd be paying 0.15% as a platform charge and (say) 0.1% for a fund.  Is that right?  I'm basing my calculations on this, but obviously if they did both then this would make it a lot more compelling.

I think your calculations are right, at least this is my understanding although I could be wrong!

The big one is to make sure you arent paying like 1%+ in fees (many default pension funds are like this) as over 35-40 years it adds up to a silly amount, Candid Money have a good calculator to check how much fees will cost you. Using their calculator plugging in a management fee of 1% and 7% return, investing £400 a month over 40 years you pay £227k in fees over that period, compare that to 0.1% management fee and it only costs £25k, which is the difference between just under £1 million and £750k - when I realised this my jaw hit the floor!!

You can check the calculator out here: https://www.candidmoney.com/calculators/investment-charges-impact-calculator

But if there really is such a cost difference, I'd like to know people's experiences of the Vanguard platform.  Is the transfer horrible for everyone?

I think most peoples annoyance comes from the time it takes to transfer the funds in from other pension pots? When I did it with 2 different pensions one took about 3 months and the other 5 months for it to transfer into the account..

Other than that I guess it would come down to how much their fees are in comparison to other companies and what investment options you are looking at. I am aware of people buying Vanguard ETFs through another cheaper platform (I think at the time it was Interactive Investor could be wrong) who have cheaper management/platform fees than Vanguard but they could still benefit from Vanguards investments, it could be worth it but I am lazy and I like Vanguard so I havent bothered, the biggest saving is making sure you arent paying a silly amount in fees (anything from 0.5%+ imo is high)

I suspect going for the lowest possible fee is likely to become quite tiresome as the loss leaders get pulled and you compare each year or so.  But we're leaving money on the table when we do this with utilities, so why not treat pension providers as utilities?

Is there a financial penalty for the delay in transfer by being out of the market, or can we get round that by in specie transfers?

I think loss leaders are less of a thing with the big players in the SIPP market.  It's more a matter of brand identity as 'cheap and cheerful' vs 'bells and whistles'.

The Vanguard 0.15% is capped at £375 pa.  You pay the fund charges on top of that.  If you have a large amount you may want to consider other flat fee providers too such as Interactive Investor.  I use II and they charge £22 per month which includes one free trade per month, which is fine for my needs.

[sea_saw]

I agree, savings accounts and mortgage lenders play the dance of taking turns offering market leading rates to attract customers, but the tables of fees for ISA/SIPP providers don't generally move much. Although occasionally one of them runs a promotion where they offer some cash (or a period of waived fees) to attract people, in the hope they'll stick around after that.

My ISA is at the break even point between Vanguard and ii. I should move it as Vanguard will become more expensive for me over time. Putting off the task purely because it's a hassle!

[Brit71]

The Vanguard charging seems to be on top of the annual charges for their funds.  So I'd be paying 0.15% as a platform charge and (say) 0.1% for a fund.  Is that right?  I'm basing my calculations on this, but obviously if they did both then this would make it a lot more compelling.

I think your calculations are right, at least this is my understanding although I could be wrong!

The big one is to make sure you arent paying like 1%+ in fees (many default pension funds are like this) as over 35-40 years it adds up to a silly amount, Candid Money have a good calculator to check how much fees will cost you. Using their calculator plugging in a management fee of 1% and 7% return, investing £400 a month over 40 years you pay £227k in fees over that period, compare that to 0.1% management fee and it only costs £25k, which is the difference between just under £1 million and £750k - when I realised this my jaw hit the floor!!

You can check the calculator out here: https://www.candidmoney.com/calculators/investment-charges-impact-calculator

But if there really is such a cost difference, I'd like to know people's experiences of the Vanguard platform.  Is the transfer horrible for everyone?

I think most peoples annoyance comes from the time it takes to transfer the funds in from other pension pots? When I did it with 2 different pensions one took about 3 months and the other 5 months for it to transfer into the account..

Other than that I guess it would come down to how much their fees are in comparison to other companies and what investment options you are looking at. I am aware of people buying Vanguard ETFs through another cheaper platform (I think at the time it was Interactive Investor could be wrong) who have cheaper management/platform fees than Vanguard but they could still benefit from Vanguards investments, it could be worth it but I am lazy and I like Vanguard so I havent bothered, the biggest saving is making sure you arent paying a silly amount in fees (anything from 0.5%+ imo is high)

I suspect going for the lowest possible fee is likely to become quite tiresome as the loss leaders get pulled and you compare each year or so.  But we're leaving money on the table when we do this with utilities, so why not treat pension providers as utilities?

Is there a financial penalty for the delay in transfer by being out of the market, or can we get round that by in specie transfers?

I think loss leaders are less of a thing with the big players in the SIPP market.  It's more a matter of brand identity as 'cheap and cheerful' vs 'bells and whistles'.

The Vanguard 0.15% is capped at £375 pa.  You pay the fund charges on top of that.  If you have a large amount you may want to consider other flat fee providers too such as Interactive Investor.  I use II and they charge £22 per month which includes one free trade per month, which is fine for my needs.

So Vanguard is would charge 0.15% (capped) on the platform and then the Vanguard fund would charge 0.1% or 0.07%?

Does the II platform charge for reinvestment or do you simply let the dividends pile up and reinvest as part of the housekeeping?

[PhilB]

Personally I just use acc units, so the issue doesn't arise.  A quick google reveals that if you do want automated dividend reinvestment they charge 99p a pop.

[daverobev]

IIRC if you use ETFs, both Fidelity and AJBell are a lot cheaper than Vanguard - at least on a SIPP. And then of course you have the flexibility to use other ETF providers too.

I remember this being good but not always quite correct https://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheapest-online-brokers/

Edit - yeah Fidelity is £90 and AJBell £120 if you hit their caps with ETFs. That is quite a decent saving over Vanguard. That's for SIPPs.