Independent School or State School?

[Albatross]

Hello all. Just wondering what most UK Mustachians do with their mini-moustaches when it comes to independent vs state school. Not really looking for a debate on which is better - I'm considering options for both since there may come a time when for one reason or another (e.g. bullying) I might want to pull them out of a particular school and switch (more flexibility with do this with independent schools).

[LightTripper]

I was state school educated and assumed I would do the same for our kids. However, my OH went private, and in the end we are (so far) doing the same for our kids.

Partly this is because DD is autistic and although she copes really well, she does benefit from a small class size with just less going on.  For example, in her small school there are 20 kids in her class with a teacher and 2 TAs, and one of the TAs I know does give her extra support with executive function stuff or if she gets overwhelmed.  We did look at state schools too and some were really impressive, but it was mainly the size that put us off (plus DDs nursery ran straight into a private primary school, so it meant she stayed with her friends and didn't have to get to know a new bunch of kids).

I can imagine we might switch back to state when she's older if we move out of London. It is a huge amount of cost over their school career and I can only manage with FI because of crazy London pay rates for me and OH.

How old are your Littles?

[PhilB]

For primary I don't think it matters too much if you are very hands on with educating them yourselves - our boys went to the local village school and definitely learnt more from us than from school over that period.

For secondary it's more important that you find a school that meets your kids needs.  We were very lucky that we have a very academic grammar school here, so as we have very academic kids it was a no brainer to send them there rather than pay a fortune to go private.  If the local state schools had been poor though, or the kids had any special needs, then we would probably have buckled down to a few more years of work to pay for private.  Or moved to be nearer to a good state school which would probably have been cheaper!

[vand]

I agree with PhilB,

Private school (confusingly known as "Public" school in the UK) will benefit different children to differing degrees, and the more talented/gifted your child is the more it is likely to benefit them.

IMO State Primary school is absolutely fine for 99% of kids.

After that you will know what sort of development trajectory your child is on, and what sort of benefit they will get from an expensive private school.  You can absolutely still get a very good education from the State if you are able to get into a selective/grammar school.

[SuseB]

Agree with what's been said about state primary. In my experience outside London it's a postcode lottery. We planned ahead a bit and moved when our kids were small to the cheapest village in the catchment for the excellent state secondary in the next village. There were alternative respectable choices nearby too if their needs had turned out to be different. Mine are all fairly academic and their state school is a former grammar with a high-achieving demographic. We paid a bit of a premium on the house, but it was a lot less than school fees for three kids! I took the view that state would have to be pretty dire/really not be able to meet our kids' needs for me to even contemplate private, for both ideological and financial reasons.

(I went to a state secondary in London myself and was one of very few academic pupils - didn't stop me going on to get a first at a collegiate university. DH went to his local rural comp and was first in his family to go to uni, he also did very well.)

[Manchester]

State school all day long in my opinion.

One of the most important pillars of a child's education is how to interact with other children/people.  If a child is sheltered in an independent school, I think they're missing out on that real-world experience you get in a state school.  I think it's more important to train your children to be street-wise rather than academic.  This massively generalises both types of schools.  But I had experience in a state school and an independent school.  I much preferred the former and hated the latter.  The ultimate worst-case scenario is a religious school.

[shelivesthedream]

Private school (confusingly known as "Public" school in the UK)

Actually, public schools are a subset of private schools: Eton, Harrow, Shrewsbury, Winchester, Rugby, Westminster, and Charterhouse. All private boys boarding schools.

I went to a very swish private day school and would think long and hard before putting my own children through that experience. All the "ethos" stuff was nonsense. It was a highly pressurised exam factory and the "rounded person" stuff just meant that you had to be excellent at everything, both academic and extra-curricular. Anorexia rate was sky high but as long as people got good grades and didn't make trouble, it was all ignored.

We think, at the moment, that we will start off homeschooling and see how we go with the idea of moving to a school somewhere down the line, probably 11+. (Eldest is 2.5yo.) It seems to me to be such a lottery as to where you live that general speculation is not very useful. But I would really and truly and genuinely rather my children go to a school which makes them happy and builds character than gets them top marks. I think a lot of people say that but don't really mean it.

[TacheTastic]

Not being a parent, feel free to take my opinion with a shovel of salt. It is however a subject close to my heart due to my own childhood experiences.

I think it depends on your child and the schools that are available to you.

My brother was popular and practical rather than academic. The local comprehensive with all his primary school friends was a great fit for him. He went on to do an apprenticeship in a practical trade and is financially pretty comfortable.

I was bullied at primary school, and going up to the local comp would have been hell for me. Luckily we had a good, old-fashioned grammar school nearby and I flew through the 11+. I was no longer the only academic kid in class, and it made my teenage years much less painful than they would otherwise have been. If I hadn't gone there, my parents planned to put me into a technical college school that was far enough away that I would have a fresh start.

I don't think private school was ever an option, as the pressure on the family finances would have made it much harder for everyone, but we were lucky to have other options locally.

[cerat0n1a]

Ours went to the village primary and secondary schools. The secondary school has a catchment area which spans several miles in each direction, and has the exam results that you would expect in an area where a fairly substantial proportion of parents are academics, scientists, engineers, programmers etc. and I think came pretty close to the comprehensive ideal in that our children's friends included the children of East European Farm workers and those of people with several hundred acres and a string of racehorses. Private school would seem to be about as unmustachian as it gets, you're typically paying out £20k of post-tax income per child per year (don't forget to add all the "optional" extras onto the quoted fees).

I think TacheTastic has it correct though, it depends on your child and the schools available where you live.

[PhilB]

Just as a fun calculation, if instead of spending £20k a year on private schools for 13 years, you invested it for the kid and handed it over when they finished Uni 3 years later then at 4% compound they'd have a £380k stash.  Add in all the 'extras' and you might be close to half a million...

[shelivesthedream]

Just as a fun calculation, if instead of spending £20k a year on private schools for 13 years, you invested it for the kid and handed it over when they finished Uni 3 years later then at 4% compound they'd have a £380k stash.  Add in all the 'extras' and you might be close to half a million...

Lol, and my fancy education hasn't exactly earned its keep financially! If you include university, its ROI is probably less than 0%!

[Manchester]

Just as a fun calculation, if instead of spending £20k a year on private schools for 13 years, you invested it for the kid and handed it over when they finished Uni 3 years later then at 4% compound they'd have a £380k stash.  Add in all the 'extras' and you might be close to half a million...

Lol, and my fancy education hasn't exactly earned its keep financially! If you include university, its ROI is probably less than 0%!

Especially when you consider the opportunity cost of those 3+ years worth of work. 

By the time most of my friends had finished uni, I'd saved £20k (and I was 'only' paid around £40k over that period), which I then used as a deposit on my house.  Nearly 5 years later I have over £100k in equity, healthy savings and a decent start to my retirement planning - they're mostly renting and seem to be stuck in roles paying less than average salaries.

I know it's only my own experiences, but unless you're studying STEM subjects I really don't think university is worth it (other than for the piss up - which I do feel I missed out on). 

[shelivesthedream]

Just as a fun calculation, if instead of spending £20k a year on private schools for 13 years, you invested it for the kid and handed it over when they finished Uni 3 years later then at 4% compound they'd have a £380k stash.  Add in all the 'extras' and you might be close to half a million...

Lol, and my fancy education hasn't exactly earned its keep financially! If you include university, its ROI is probably less than 0%!

I know it's only my own experiences, but unless you're studying STEM subjects I really don't think university is worth it (other than for the piss up - which I do feel I missed out on).

I do think you need to sit down and think "What do I think education is really for?" Not just school, but education. I think university is a bad financial deal for an awful lot of people but a good cultivating-a-rich-inner-life-and-a-good-social-circle deal for many. It really depends on what your other opportunities are.

[Albatross]

Thank you to everyone who replied. Very insightful comments.

I think my wife and I are leaning towards state schools at least for primary school and hopefully we can 'buy into' a relatively peaceful and friendly postcode which again might allow us to send our children to decent state schools.

We might reconsider for secondary school if our children are doing well academically and might benefit from a particular type of private school (and would themselves want to try it) - but if they're doing well both mentally and academically at a state school I don't think we would put any pressure on switching from state to private.

This also seems to be the general consensus of people who replied.

I think the only time a more sudden decision would have to be made is if they are being bullied or unable to focus at the particular school they are going to. Indeed, this could apply to both state and private institutions.

We don't have children yet - but I am trying to map out what our finances will look like for the next few decades and education is a potential gamechanger in terms of how many more years of the corporate grind we have to do.

[PhilB]

The great advantage of the 'buy into a good postcode' approach is that you should get that money back if you move out once the education is finished.  When school fees are paid they're gone.