I might be eligible for UK citizenship via "double descent"!

[TomTX]

Born and raised in the USA, but for years we've talked about a frugal ER outside the USA. Britain was already on the list, though we haven't done a deep dive yet. Citizenship would obviously make transition easier. The citizenship application isn't particularly expensive.

Yes, I already drink tea, like good transit, enjoy biking, watch some BBC and am fairly familiar with the recent Brexit drama. Worked closely with a British friend for many years. We plan on an extended visit before making any long-term arrangements.

I have a (virtual) appointment next month with a specialist lawyer to advise on the process, so what I would like to know from folks in the UK: What are the top things you think I should know before planning ER in the UK? Links to reputable sites/articles are appreciated as well!

[uk_american1]

I'm US born and raised, been living in Europe since 2003, also a UK citizen. I never drink tea and transit here is ridiculously expensive compared to the continent. Off the top of my head:

-Think about if/when you'll return to the US after ER. There is a penalty if you're not back in the US and signed up for medicare at age 65:  https://www.medicare.gov/basics/get-started-with-medicare/sign-up/when-does-medicare-coverage-start

-You can buy years of service in the UK state pension scheme (similar to Social Security) if you are not working. You only qualify for a payout if you've paid into the system for at least 10 years. It's currently 824 GBP/year to buy a year of service but that cost goes up each year and you can only buy back 6 years.  Useful to run the numbers to see if it makes sense for you.  https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions

If you do buy pension years in the UK or do something similar in another country (as opposed to working and having taxes withheld for this purpose), keep good records as buying years does not reduce Social Security (but working and having taxes withheld will).  https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/program-explainers/windfall-elimination-provision.html

[Adventine]

Hey, interesting! A second citizenship does open new doors, although there are some pitfalls.


Here's a good Bogleheads article on the subject, with some UK-specific considerations: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Taxation_as_a_US_person_living_abroad

[jim555]

Usually UK citizenship only passes down one generation, not two, aka double descent.  Due to a UK court ruling if a particular set of circumstances exists (it gets very complex) there is an application called UKM Romein Section 4C where a British grandparent can pass it down two generations.  Good luck!

https://freemovement.org.uk/landmark-supreme-court-decision-opens-british-citizenship/

[MisterA]

What are the top things you think I should know before planning ER in the UK? Links to reputable sites/articles are appreciated as well!

I lived in the US for a number of years, in CT and VA.

The weather in the UK dominated by the fact that we're an island. The summers often don't get especially warm, and the winters don't get particularly cold. And it rains almost any time. Whilst the winters aren't very low temperatures, it can feel really cold due to driving wind and sleet or rain. The weather is warmer in the south.

I'd say that the UK is an expensive country vs USA. Energy, cars, gasoline, taxes, real estate etc all cost more in the UK.

This website lists all the real estate that is for sale in the UK, and you can also access previously sold property prices:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/

Oh and basically, you can't own a gun, and our beer is warm.

[Affable Bear]

Oh and basically, you can't own a gun, and our beer is warm.

I think this is always the worst bit about the UK, not the gun bit! The beer haha, its very hard to find a nice pub/bar with good service and nice ice cold draft beer.

[NorthernMonkey]

I'd say that the UK is an expensive country vs USA. Energy, cars, gasoline, taxes, real estate etc all cost more in the UK.

This website lists all the real estate that is for sale in the UK, and you can also access previously sold property prices:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/

As a percentage of income yes, but as someone moving over here from the US with investments, and no intention of working, the good exchange rate means that most of these things are quite cheap (with the exception of real estate)

[TomTX]

Usually UK citizenship only passes down one generation, not two, aka double descent.  Due to a UK court ruling if a particular set of circumstances exists (it gets very complex) there is an application called UKM Romein Section 4C where a British grandparent can pass it down two generations.  Good luck!

https://freemovement.org.uk/landmark-supreme-court-decision-opens-british-citizenship/

By my non-expert reading I appear to meet the broad qualifications.  My father born in the USA could not be registered because of gender discrimination at the time despite having a UK citizen mother born in the UK. If his father had been been the UK citizen, he could have been registered for citizenship.

The complexities are the reason I have booked (and paid for) a visit with a specialist lawyer. If this doesn't work out, I'm only out £150 and some time. If it does look like it will work out, they will tell me exactly which forms to fill out (there are SO MANY to choose from!), list the documentation needed to support the application, etc.

Anyway, thank you all for your kind input.

[jim555]

If they approve you would go to the British Consulate for your £80 citizenship ceremony and get your certificate of registration.  Then apply for the passport.  They removed the "good character" requirement recently.

[TomTX]

If they approve you would go to the British Consulate for your £80 citizenship ceremony and get your certificate of registration.  Then apply for the passport.  They removed the "good character" requirement recently.

Yes, the closest British Consulate is in Houston.

[Morning Glory]

It's worth a shot. I was born in the UK and understood that I could pass my citizenship to my children but they can't pass it to theirs unless they are born there. My US born brother (same parents) can claim it for himself but not for his children. 

I like having that option if shit really hits the fan here. I really liked the beer and the Indian food when I spent time there but the dark winters really suck, and all my relatives have all moved away or died so I don't have connections there any more.

They don't have automatic spouse visas like the US afaik. My stepmom had to have a job in a skilled field lined up when she moved over there despite my dad being British. This was a long time ago and it might be different if you have a lot of assets, or they might have made it easier since then. 

[TomTX]

They don't have automatic spouse visas like the US afaik. My stepmom had to have a job in a skilled field lined up when she moved over there despite my dad being British. This was a long time ago and it might be different if you have a lot of assets, or they might have made it easier since then.

Yes, from my reading the spousal visa isn't automatic. However, it doesn't look too difficult to qualify for the initial 30-33 month spouse (or family) visa, followed by a 30 month renewal, followed by filing for Indefinite Leave to Remain - at which point naturalization is feasible if desired.

Oh, and to address an earlier point: I'm not too fond of beer anyway - with the exception of an occasional post-lawnmowing beer during a Texas summer. 

[TomTX]

-Think about if/when you'll return to the US after ER. There is a penalty if you're not back in the US and signed up for medicare at age 65:  https://www.medicare.gov/basics/get-started-with-medicare/sign-up/when-does-medicare-coverage-start

I had planned to sign up for Medicare at age 65. From my reading, it looks like the residency requirement to sign up for Part B only kicks in if you don't qualify for free Part A. I should qualify for free Part A. Of course, that means paying Part B premiums.  It will be well over a decade before I'm old enough to file, so I'll do a comparison then. Appreciate the heads up.

-You can buy years of service in the UK state pension scheme (similar to Social Security) if you are not working. You only qualify for a payout if you've paid into the system for at least 10 years. It's currently 824 GBP/year to buy a year of service but that cost goes up each year and you can only buy back 6 years.  Useful to run the numbers to see if it makes sense for you.  https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions

Interesting. So I could immediately buy 6 years, and buy an additional year each future year?

A (US resident) British friend of mine was drawing both Social Security and a UK state pension of some kind. I never got the details though - and he passed away a couple of years ago.

[jim555]

UK has an inheritance tax of 40% over £325,000.  That is a deal breaker for me.  Plus the tax rates are higher in general.

[TomTX]

UK has an inheritance tax of 40% over £325,000.  That is a deal breaker for me.  Plus the tax rates are higher in general.

Eh, as long as the spousal exception continues to exist I really won't care.

[Paul der Krake]

London has glorious late springs/early summers. The sun is out, the temps are perfect, the sun rises at 5 and sets at 10, everyone is out and about, tennis season is in full swing.

[jim555]

UK has an inheritance tax of 40% over £325,000.  That is a deal breaker for me.  Plus the tax rates are higher in general.

Eh, as long as the spousal exception continues to exist I really won't care.

The Channel Islands, Isle of Man, and Gibraltar have no inheritance taxes.  Gibraltar doesn't tax capital gains or dividends, but you would need private health cover.  These are all in the Common Travel Area so UK passport means you have right of abode in them.  Also the CTA includes Ireland.  To get an EU passport 5 years will naturalize and get the Irish passport.  Also marriage to an Irish citizen gets it done in 3 years.

[TomTX]

UK has an inheritance tax of 40% over £325,000.  That is a deal breaker for me.  Plus the tax rates are higher in general.

Eh, as long as the spousal exception continues to exist I really won't care.

The Channel Islands, Isle of Man, and Gibraltar have no inheritance taxes.  Gibraltar doesn't tax capital gains or dividends, but you would need private health cover.  These are all in the Common Travel Area so UK passport means you have right of abode in them.  Also the CTA includes Ireland.  To get an EU passport 5 years will naturalize and get the Irish passport.  Also marriage to an Irish citizen gets it done in 3 years.

Appreciate the details, though the spouse probably won't go for the "marriage to an Irish citizen" option. ;) IDK, is polygamy a thing in Ireland?