How to leave the BBC ?

[jade]

We're thinking of leaving the BBC and stopping paying the licence fee. Does anyone know how to make sure we're completely compliant with the rules and regulations? We have no intention of watching any BBC products or live TV. We use a Roku stick on an old TV.

Note -- any opinions on other streaming services welcome particularly netflix Vs Amazon prime.

Cheers!

[bownyboy]

I mean legally you just need to cancel your direct debit. They will then start hounding you with threatening letters that look legal saying things like 'this home has no license' or 'our detectives will be visiting soon' etc etc.

You can ignore them all and ignore anyone who knocks on your door.

If you feel inclined you can fill out the form here https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/telling-us-you-dont-need-a-tv-licence to let them know you don't need a license and they will leave you alone for two years.

Apart from that happy days. Just make sure you don't watch or record live TV through an aerial or on streaming service or use iplayer.

[jade]

Thanks bownyboy. Yeh, looking it up online it looked like the threatening letters thing is quite annoying but yes, will ignore. Seems wrong that you have to prove that you're not using something. We'll fill that form in then -- thanks for the advice.

[GuitarStv]

Punch one of your producers.




Worked for Jeremy Clarkson.  :P

[jade]

Punch one of your producers.




Worked for Jeremy Clarkson.  :P

Hahahaha!!!

[Brit71]

See if your library has access to Kanopy:

https://www.kanopy.com/

Channel 4 is also rather overlooked as a good streaming source.  Walters Presents particularly.  You feel really intelligent and cultured while watching the sort of stuff that would be a guilty pleasure if it wasn't subtitled.

[jade]

See if your library has access to Kanopy:

https://www.kanopy.com/

Channel 4 is also rather overlooked as a good streaming source.  Walters Presents particularly.  You feel really intelligent and cultured while watching the sort of stuff that would be a guilty pleasure if it wasn't subtitled.

Thanks @Brit71 I hadn't heard of kanopy, will check that out.

I used to really like WP but then started finding it a bit hit and miss. But yes, it does seem more high brow!

[shelivesthedream]

We haven't paid the licence fee for years. You may get threatening letters... but you may not. We never have. We just fill in the declaration every time they remind us and that's that. I don't believe the onus is on you to prove anything, it's on them to prove you've broken the rules.

Just remember, don't touch ANYTHING from BBC television. No iplayer, no nothing. You can still listen to the radio. And dont watch ANYTHING live, EVER. It simply has not been a problem for us to comply with the rules. We have other things to do!

[jade]

Thanks @shelivesthedream good to hear your experience. Cancelling the licence this week!

[Brit71]

We haven't paid the licence fee for years. You may get threatening letters... but you may not. We never have. We just fill in the declaration every time they remind us and that's that. I don't believe the onus is on you to prove anything, it's on them to prove you've broken the rules.

Just remember, don't touch ANYTHING from BBC television. No iplayer, no nothing. You can still listen to the radio. And dont watch ANYTHING live, EVER. It simply has not been a problem for us to comply with the rules. We have other things to do!

The big problem seems to be live sports.  I'm very casual in my sports fandom, so visits to friends houses\pub suffice, but for bigger sports fans the pub will get quite expensive.

[jade]

We haven't paid the licence fee for years. You may get threatening letters... but you may not. We never have. We just fill in the declaration every time they remind us and that's that. I don't believe the onus is on you to prove anything, it's on them to prove you've broken the rules.

Just remember, don't touch ANYTHING from BBC television. No iplayer, no nothing. You can still listen to the radio. And dont watch ANYTHING live, EVER. It simply has not been a problem for us to comply with the rules. We have other things to do!

The big problem seems to be live sports.  I'm very casual in my sports fandom, so visits to friends houses\pub suffice, but for bigger sports fans the pub will get quite expensive.

True @Brit71 -- luckily I avoid sports on TV so I'll be ok!

We've cancelled the licence now and thinking of not adding any paid streaming for now and see how we go. Btw, your recommendation of kanopy was great.. thanks again. We watched "a man called ove" which we loved on it the other night and lots more saved to watch. We're also trying a few other freebies like stvplayer and filmrise thru the Roku stick which seem good too.

[shelivesthedream]

We haven't paid the licence fee for years. You may get threatening letters... but you may not. We never have. We just fill in the declaration every time they remind us and that's that. I don't believe the onus is on you to prove anything, it's on them to prove you've broken the rules.

Just remember, don't touch ANYTHING from BBC television. No iplayer, no nothing. You can still listen to the radio. And dont watch ANYTHING live, EVER. It simply has not been a problem for us to comply with the rules. We have other things to do!

The big problem seems to be live sports.  I'm very casual in my sports fandom, so visits to friends houses\pub suffice, but for bigger sports fans the pub will get quite expensive.

So... pay the licence fee? It's not going to break the bank if you actually want to watch the stuff it entitles you to watch. We don't, so we don't, but then we spend on other things for entertainment. We probably buy more DVDs than your average live sports fan, if nothing else.

[ExitViaTheCashRamp]

Also, don't use the BBC iPlayer - that is also covered by the licence fee for a few years now.

 Honestly though, I think the BBC is foolish to bundle all their services this way. I'll happily pay for the BBC bitesize to help the kids with school work, I'll pay for BBC news & weather. I'm buggered if I'll pay for 99.9% of their TV and radio output which is mostly extremely low quality from what I see when I visit my parents and in-laws. We stopped paying in '07 when the only thing we actually wanted to watch was 'Mock the Week'.... and even that is now gone.


 Heard a wonderful and for the BBC scary statistic a while back... ask kids that are over 7 and under 15 what the BBC does and they will mostly tell you BBC bitesize, the majority apparently have no idea or simply forget that the BBC have a television channel - they last time they watched it was for CBeebies when they were under 5 ! Instead they are all watching streaming services of one kind or another commercial kids TV stations.

[jade]

Good to hear @ExitViaTheCashRamp I agree. Hubby and were talking about the way they bundle it not working too. Also what's quite off putting when you try and leave is seeing how punitive they sound about even once accidentally clicking on live TV and sending people around to check etc! It's also not business savvy to charge more than double compared to other streaming services for as you said, low quality content on average. I think they've tried to continue the method of people having a licence when the way people watch TV just isn't the same anymore. Not surprised about BBC bitesized! I work at a uni and most students I know don't use BBC.

[bownyboy]

Reading the news today with the plans that the BBC is putting into place to be more commercial from 2027 it wouldn't surprise me if things become more pick and choose, allowing you to pay for the things you want and not the things you don't.

However, I expect that if you want it all it will be considerably much more than the existing license fee.

As someone said on Reddit today, its only when things have gone do we then subsequently realise how good it was...

[bill1827]

Good to hear @ExitViaTheCashRamp I agree. Hubby and were talking about the way they bundle it not working too. Also what's quite off putting when you try and leave is seeing how punitive they sound about even once accidentally clicking on live TV and sending people around to check etc! It's also not business savvy to charge more than double compared to other streaming services for as you said, low quality content on average. I think they've tried to continue the method of people having a licence when the way people watch TV just isn't the same anymore. Not surprised about BBC bitesized! I work at a uni and most students I know don't use BBC.

You have a curious idea of the value that you get from the TV licence compared to streaming services. The standard Netflix account is £10.99 a month - £131.88 per year. That's only £27 less than the TV licence for which you get a somewhat limited selection of material, a large proportion of which is rubbish, just like all the other services. Amazon Prime is £95 P.A. which also has limited content, most of which is rubbish. (+ £36 if you don't want the ads that they've just started, so £131 P.A.). So Netflix and prime come to £263 P.A. Add on other streaming services to get the material that they don't want to share and you quickly get to eye-watering sums.

Of course the BBC broadcasts a lot of rubbish, as does every broadcast channel and streaming service, but it has historically produced a lot of very high quality programming (ironically a lot of it is so bad that it finds its way onto those wonderful streaming services).

In historical terms the BBC produces 3 broadcast plus one streamed TV channels 5 broadcast radio channels plus some streamed ones. They also have to pay to produce the World Service as our wonderful government dumped the costs onto the BBC.

The range of BBC productions is so wide that a blanket "it's all rubbish" is simply not credible, unless you're a Daily Mail reader.

As to the pick and mix option, none of the streaming providers offer that, no doubt it would lose them too much income, so I doubt that the BBC would if the licence fee was removed and they charged directly for access. Incidentally, most of the streamers aren't making any money, so don't be surprised to see their prices go up, the content go down adn a few of them closing.

[jade]

@bill1827 who said "it's all rubbish?" What a curious post .. i wouldn't even know where to start, even if I had the inclination to do so

[jade]

Reading the news today with the plans that the BBC is putting into place to be more commercial from 2027 it wouldn't surprise me if things become more pick and choose, allowing you to pay for the things you want and not the things you don't.

However, I expect that if you want it all it will be considerably much more than the existing license fee.

As someone said on Reddit today, its only when things have gone do we then subsequently realise how good it was...

Interesting. & That's true. We're getting on fine with just freebies like kanopy atm.

[ExitViaTheCashRamp]

You have a curious idea of the value that you get from the TV licence compared to streaming services. The standard Netflix account is £10.99 a month - £131.88 per year. That's only £27 less than the TV licence for which you get a somewhat limited selection of material, a large proportion of which is rubbish, just like all the other services. Amazon Prime is £95 P.A. which also has limited content, most of which is rubbish. (+ £36 if you don't want the ads that they've just started, so £131 P.A.). So Netflix and prime come to £263 P.A. Add on other streaming services to get the material that they don't want to share and you quickly get to eye-watering sums.

 Your argument would make sense if it was the full picture... but it is not. With the BBC you have to buy all of it for a year, all the competitors sell by the month. You can buy a months worth from say Netflix, watch everything that is worth watching - then cancel. Switch to Amazon next month and do the same. The BBC doesn't compete well on price at all.

[Affable Bear]

As to the pick and mix option, none of the streaming providers offer that, no doubt it would lose them too much income, so I doubt that the BBC would if the licence fee was removed and they charged directly for access. Incidentally, most of the streamers aren't making any money, so don't be surprised to see their prices go up, the content go down adn a few of them closing.

The biggest difference is when I get fed up or want to save money and dont want to pay for Netflix, Prime, Disney etc.. I can cancel my subscription and not get goons at my door harassing me to pay or threatening legal action. Could you imagine if you cancelled Sky and they took you to court over it!

I appreciate BBC news and some of the world services but these should probably be funded through direct taxation instead i.e. the Government. I could care less for their programming or any other broadcasters either (its all trash), it infuriates me that we dont have access to the vast BBC back catalogue of programs that its produced over the years despite paying for it (they tried to sell it back to us again through Britbox) and on top of this they have BBC Studios making lots of income selling TV shows we have funded etc.. It just doesnt sit right and needs reform. 

It is also unfair to those on the smallest of incomes who are browbeaten into a service they cannot afford..

[jade]

I agree with your points@ExitViaTheCashRamp & @Affable Bear !

Btw.. there is a petition to make the BBC subscription https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/649092

[bill1827]

I could care less for their programming or any other broadcasters either (its all trash), it infuriates me that we dont have access to the vast BBC back catalogue of programs that its produced over the years despite paying for it (they tried to sell it back to us again through Britbox) and on top of this they have BBC Studios making lots of income selling TV shows we have funded etc..

You have to laugh!

They produce trash but you want their back catalogue (presumably of trash) available!

The BBC sells programmes because governments have told it to. "You won't get the licence fee to fund it properly so go out and sell stuff."

[jade]

You do love the BBC, don't you @bill1827 ?! Even the BBC says it needs reforming and will be doing that in 2027.

[PhilB]

The fundamental problem with the BBC is that the great mass of viewers and listeners are only interested in the trash.
 And they can get just as easily from commercial stations.  You can argue they should stop making the trash, but is it then fair to expect the masses to pay for the good stuff that they don't personally care about, whether that's directly or through general taxation?  Hence the current messy compromise.

Maybe the correct answer is the good stuff (Radio 4, BBC 4, etc) becomes subscription, the news and world service should be general taxation and if they want to do mass market have adverts.  I'd probably add cBeebies to the general taxation list.

[jade]

The fundamental problem with the BBC is that the great mass of viewers and listeners are only interested in the trash.
 And they can get just as easily from commercial stations.  You can argue they should stop making the trash, but is it then fair to expect the masses to pay for the good stuff that they don't personally care about, whether that's directly or through general taxation?  Hence the current messy compromise.

Maybe the correct answer is the good stuff (Radio 4, BBC 4, etc) becomes subscription, the news and world service should be general taxation and if they want to do mass market have adverts.  I'd probably add cBeebies to the general taxation list.

I think you're onto something @PhilB -- the way it's evolved means it's trying to be all things to everyone and then employing an overly punitive response if someone doesn't have a licence. I think just because we all have different needs and also that's there's a lot more choice nowadays, it shouldn't be the default to presume people have a licence and / or that if they don't, someone could come to your house to interrogate you.

[Affable Bear]

Maybe the correct answer is the good stuff (Radio 4, BBC 4, etc) becomes subscription, the news and world service should be general taxation and if they want to do mass market have adverts.  I'd probably add cBeebies to the general taxation list.

I second that!

[TacheTastic]

Going back to the original question, I have not had a licence since 2012. I just filed the declaration that I didn't need one, and then refreshed it every time they sent me a new letter. I did once have an inspector come to visit my house, and because I had nothing to hide I agreed they could come and look at my ancient TV with DVD player attached. That was a number of years ago and I have not had another visitor since. Every now and then I think about getting a licence to maybe watch a few things, but then I forget again. I had netflix for a bit and currently have disney, but I'm getting bored of it now.

[jade]

Going back to the original question, I have not had a licence since 2012. I just filed the declaration that I didn't need one, and then refreshed it every time they sent me a new letter. I did once have an inspector come to visit my house, and because I had nothing to hide I agreed they could come and look at my ancient TV with DVD player attached. That was a number of years ago and I have not had another visitor since. Every now and then I think about getting a licence to maybe watch a few things, but then I forget again. I had netflix for a bit and currently have disney, but I'm getting bored of it now.

Thanks for that @TacheTastic -- exactly what I was looking for as the fear is being visited by an unfriendly inspector. I'm glad it's been ok for you. So far, like you, we're adjusting just fine.

[jade]

Ps what was the inspector visit like? Have heard stories of it being unpleasant and being pushed into signing something.

[jade]

This is interesting https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/26964199/bbc-tv-licence-2028/

"The BBC knows it can no longer justify strong-arming taxpayers into handing over money for something they no longer use, or can afford. And certainly not, as Davie admitted, in “a time of limitless choice and interactivity”."

[jade]

In case it's useful to anyone else, hubby found this site that has practical help about how to leave and stay within the law...

https://tvlicencebible.co.uk/

[TacheTastic]

Ps what was the inspector visit like? Have heard stories of it being unpleasant and being pushed into signing something.

It was a long time ago. I don't remember it being problematic. I'm a low-stress person and I don't get angry, so there wasn't any tension. I knew I wasn't breaking any rules, so I had nothing to hide. My memory may not be accurate, but I don't remember it being more than a few moments. They saw my TV and DVD player, saw there wasn't any signal receiver, and went. Didn't ask to check the bedrooms or anything. I don't remember signing anything. I'm going to estimate it was probably somewhere around 2015/2016. My TV dates from 2008, and doesn't have a built in digital receiver, so it was pretty obvious, but they were less fussy about streaming at the time I think.

[jade]

Ps what was the inspector visit like? Have heard stories of it being unpleasant and being pushed into signing something.

It was a long time ago. I don't remember it being problematic. I'm a low-stress person and I don't get angry, so there wasn't any tension. I knew I wasn't breaking any rules, so I had nothing to hide. My memory may not be accurate, but I don't remember it being more than a few moments. They saw my TV and DVD player, saw there wasn't any signal receiver, and went. Didn't ask to check the bedrooms or anything. I don't remember signing anything. I'm going to estimate it was probably somewhere around 2015/2016. My TV dates from 2008, and doesn't have a built in digital receiver, so it was pretty obvious, but they were less fussy about streaming at the time I think.

Thanks @TacheTastic we appreciate the response. We're on the higher stress end so it's causing some anxiety -- we'll need to decide what to do for the best here but it's good to hear it went ok.

[ExitViaTheCashRamp]

I was worried about a visit and read up a little on it... assuming the rules haven't changed, this was the advice I read at the time -- I have no idea if this is or has ever been entirely accurate, not researched it more in the past ~10 years:

1) You don't have to let them in ! The inspectors as outsourced from the BBC to another company - Cap Gemini I think it used to be at least. They have no power to enter your home than I do.

2) NEVER sign anything. They have no powers of arrest or means to fine you - unless you sign something, which will be used against you as a written confession if you are not careful


e.g."Oh - so you watch "famous show" - do you think you might have watched that in the evening ? . That's fine, can you just sign here to confirm you don't have the TV"

 Once you sign, you have confessed to watching "famous show" at the same time as it being broadcast, therefore you are guilty. Fine & criminal record for you.

 The rumour was that the Cap Gemini employees were paid a bounty for obtaining a confession (~£80 I think ?) --- but have no idea if this is true, suspect not.

[jade]

I was worried about a visit and read up a little on it... assuming the rules haven't changed, this was the advice I read at the time -- I have no idea if this is or has ever been entirely accurate, not researched it more in the past ~10 years:

1) You don't have to let them in ! The inspectors as outsourced from the BBC to another company - Cap Gemini I think it used to be at least. They have no power to enter your home than I do.

2) NEVER sign anything. They have no powers of arrest or means to fine you - unless you sign something, which will be used against you as a written confession if you are not careful


e.g."Oh - so you watch "famous show" - do you think you might have watched that in the evening ? . That's fine, can you just sign here to confirm you don't have the TV"

 Once you sign, you have confessed to watching "famous show" at the same time as it being broadcast, therefore you are guilty. Fine & criminal record for you.

 The rumour was that the Cap Gemini employees were paid a bounty for obtaining a confession (~£80 I think ?) --- but have no idea if this is true, suspect not.

Thanks @ExitViaTheCashRamp yeh also, I've heard of people signing and because the whole form wasn't completed, the inspector filled in further details to their detriment after. Also, happy to not let them in but they sometimes have taken that as an admission of something to investigate...

[shelivesthedream]

If the BBC split up their various things and charged on a more PAYG model, we might end up subscribing to slme things. For example, we used to listen to Radio 3 a lot before the radio packed up and I've just realised the CD player I Inherited does FM radio too.

Thing is, I'm just not at all bothered about being "current". I watch All Creatures Great and Small and I wait until the entire series has been broadcast before watching one episode a night. So maybe the BBC would release a really tip top period drama I was interested in, but I'd just wait until it came out on DVD. I don't mind paying to watch a particular thing (and I think the BBC does make some fantastic stuff) but "subscribing" on spec just on case there's something on I fancy doesn't interest me at all.

There's so much choice now, and there's much less of a culture of watching something live. When I was little you either watch it live, missed it, or set the VHS recorder and hoped it taped the thing you wanted and not Catchphrase by accident. Now it's not like the whole nation is sitting down to watch Morecambe and Wise together, so the licence fee doesn't feel the same.

[jade]

If the BBC split up their various things and charged on a more PAYG model, we might end up subscribing to slme things. For example, we used to listen to Radio 3 a lot before the radio packed up and I've just realised the CD player I Inherited does FM radio too.

Thing is, I'm just not at all bothered about being "current". I watch All Creatures Great and Small and I wait until the entire series has been broadcast before watching one episode a night. So maybe the BBC would release a really tip top period drama I was interested in, but I'd just wait until it came out on DVD. I don't mind paying to watch a particular thing (and I think the BBC does make some fantastic stuff) but "subscribing" on spec just on case there's something on I fancy doesn't interest me at all.

There's so much choice now, and there's much less of a culture of watching something live. When I was little you either watch it live, missed it, or set the VHS recorder and hoped it taped the thing you wanted and not Catchphrase by accident. Now it's not like the whole nation is sitting down to watch Morecambe and Wise together, so the licence fee doesn't feel the same.

We're the same about not feeling like we need to watch something when everyone else is. We've enjoyed some of the iPlayer stuff but yeh, just finding £169 a lot for the bits we enjoy. We're cruising along fine mainly using the free kanopy that was recommended here.

[Affable Bear]

1) You don't have to let them in ! The inspectors as outsourced from the BBC to another company - Cap Gemini I think it used to be at least. They have no power to enter your home than I do.

I think this correct, the only way they can forcibly come into your home is if they have a warrant from the Court (magistrate), they can only get this if they have sufficient evidence that they believe you are watching live TV/BBC and dont have a license and the only way they can get the evidence is if they watch you through your window or you talk to them and admit something etc.. A Court should not grant an order to enter into a home without sufficient supporting evidence as it is a massive invasion of privacy and not something that should easily be done (at least in theory anyways!) so provided you are not watching live TV or BBC services they are not likely to get any evidence and therefore be unable to forcibly enter your home, a simple no thanks and door close should be enough.

[jade]

1) You don't have to let them in ! The inspectors as outsourced from the BBC to another company - Cap Gemini I think it used to be at least. They have no power to enter your home than I do.

I think this correct, the only way they can forcibly come into your home is if they have a warrant from the Court (magistrate), they can only get this if they have sufficient evidence that they believe you are watching live TV/BBC and dont have a license and the only way they can get the evidence is if they watch you through your window or you talk to them and admit something etc.. A Court should not grant an order to enter into a home without sufficient supporting evidence as it is a massive invasion of privacy and not something that should easily be done (at least in theory anyways!) so provided you are not watching live TV or BBC services they are not likely to get any evidence and therefore be unable to forcibly enter your home, a simple no thanks and door close should be enough.

Thanks @Affable Bear -- good to know what we can do.

[jade]

See if your library has access to Kanopy:

https://www.kanopy.com/

Channel 4 is also rather overlooked as a good streaming source.  Walters Presents particularly.  You feel really intelligent and cultured while watching the sort of stuff that would be a guilty pleasure if it wasn't subtitled.

@Brit71 I just wanted to say what a great recommendation kanopy was -- thanks again! We're finding the quality of films much better than the mainstream platforms.. sensitive, quirky and thoughtful.