Author Topic: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions  (Read 2425 times)

Brit71

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
I'm not a teacher, in fact have never worked in the public sector. But my wife has taught for almost 20 years and if she goes to normal retirement age will do so for 14/15 years.

So what information is there out there that will help me factor in her pension rights?

How do defined benefit rights factor into early retirement calculations?

Journals, threads, other forums, websites, calculators, podcasts and more all welcome.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 12:24:59 PM by Brit71 »

Captain FIRE

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
Re: Finding information on teacher/ public sector pensions
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2022, 11:38:59 AM »
I imagine it's specific to each pension, so I would suggest by looking up her specific pension info.  For example, my pension is secure, but the health care wrap is not and could be changed. 

Also be aware of WEP (Windfall Elimination Provision) and GPO (Governmental Pension Offset), if she has also worked at jobs paying into Social Security.  The government will reduce the amount of the social security she would otherwise be entitled to if she collects a pension, absent meeting certain criteria (working 20-30 years in a social security paying position).  They also will reduce if she collects on your record.  It's annoying because it means I'll get paid less than if I had sat at home a SAHS earning nada.  The stated rational is because they would otherwise unduly benefit from the social security bend points.

Brit71

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: Finding information on teacher/ public sector pensions
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2022, 12:23:47 PM »
I imagine it's specific to each pension, so I would suggest by looking up her specific pension info.  For example, my pension is secure, but the health care wrap is not and could be changed. 

Also be aware of WEP (Windfall Elimination Provision) and GPO (Governmental Pension Offset), if she has also worked at jobs paying into Social Security.  The government will reduce the amount of the social security she would otherwise be entitled to if she collects a pension, absent meeting certain criteria (working 20-30 years in a social security paying position).  They also will reduce if she collects on your record.  It's annoying because it means I'll get paid less than if I had sat at home a SAHS earning nada.  The stated rational is because they would otherwise unduly benefit from the social security bend points.
In the UK the healthcare benefit is irrelevant. Private health insurance rarely if ever applies to pension packages, and for public employees rarely even applies to the employment package. For better or worse we're on the NHS when we retire.

I'm not sure what WEP and GPO refer to. Are these US specific? If anyone knows the UK equivalent (if any) I'd be grateful.

Brit71

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2022, 12:28:07 PM »
If someone is coming here in a couple of months or years there is some information on the teacher's scheme here:

https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/members/member-hub.aspx

Captain FIRE

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
Re: Finding information on teacher/ public sector pensions
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2022, 01:23:42 PM »
I imagine it's specific to each pension, so I would suggest by looking up her specific pension info.  For example, my pension is secure, but the health care wrap is not and could be changed. 

Also be aware of WEP (Windfall Elimination Provision) and GPO (Governmental Pension Offset), if she has also worked at jobs paying into Social Security.  The government will reduce the amount of the social security she would otherwise be entitled to if she collects a pension, absent meeting certain criteria (working 20-30 years in a social security paying position).  They also will reduce if she collects on your record.  It's annoying because it means I'll get paid less than if I had sat at home a SAHS earning nada.  The stated rational is because they would otherwise unduly benefit from the social security bend points.
In the UK the healthcare benefit is irrelevant. Private health insurance rarely if ever applies to pension packages, and for public employees rarely even applies to the employment package. For better or worse we're on the NHS when we retire.

I'm not sure what WEP and GPO refer to. Are these US specific? If anyone knows the UK equivalent (if any) I'd be grateful.

Whoops yes, WEP and GPO are US specific.  I missed the "UK" in the hearer.  Disregard.

Brit71

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: Finding information on teacher/ public sector pensions
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2022, 01:56:12 PM »
I imagine it's specific to each pension, so I would suggest by looking up her specific pension info.  For example, my pension is secure, but the health care wrap is not and could be changed. 

Also be aware of WEP (Windfall Elimination Provision) and GPO (Governmental Pension Offset), if she has also worked at jobs paying into Social Security.  The government will reduce the amount of the social security she would otherwise be entitled to if she collects a pension, absent meeting certain criteria (working 20-30 years in a social security paying position).  They also will reduce if she collects on your record.  It's annoying because it means I'll get paid less than if I had sat at home a SAHS earning nada.  The stated rational is because they would otherwise unduly benefit from the social security bend points.
In the UK the healthcare benefit is irrelevant. Private health insurance rarely if ever applies to pension packages, and for public employees rarely even applies to the employment package. For better or worse we're on the NHS when we retire.

I'm not sure what WEP and GPO refer to. Are these US specific? If anyone knows the UK equivalent (if any) I'd be grateful.

Whoops yes, WEP and GPO are US specific.  I missed the "UK" in the hearer.  Disregard.
Don't worry at all.  I will probably be asking for more general information on fitting in DB pensions in one of the main forums and I'm sure that the schemes aren't that different.

(I added "UK" to the title after your reply - so you didn't miss that.  I did originally.)


MarcherLady

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6049
  • Age: 10
  • Location: North of the Wall, UK
Re: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2022, 05:34:47 AM »
If she is a member of a union there may be good resources available on the membership website. Possibly including a benefits review session with a financial planner who knows her scheme.

And also have a look at MoneyHelper (used to be PensionWise) the UK Gov site.

Brit71

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2022, 06:31:56 AM »
If she is a member of a union there may be good resources available on the membership website. Possibly including a benefits review session with a financial planner who knows her scheme.

And also have a look at MoneyHelper (used to be PensionWise) the UK Gov site.
Her union has a deal with Wesleyan (unions are not allowed to give advice on pensions). I will let her know about that.

I will also look for money helper. Sounds like a good resource.

The Teachers Pension website has a usable calculator which I will use with her to get her figures in.

PhilB

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5803
Re: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2022, 10:50:20 AM »
Hi Brit71

DB pension schemes are great, but do indeed make the calculations more complicated for those planning to FIRE and stop you from just doing a 25 x spending approach. 

She should be getting annual statements of her entitlement to date and it's easy enough to calculate likely pension for future service.  The key question though is whether or not to take it early with an actuarial reduction.  The factors for reduction and worked examples can be found here: https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/-/media/documents/member/documents/factors/retirement/early-retirement-factors-july-2019.ashx?rev=d6cab9a4c33b4715880a5731014002b3&hash=B8D6AACCFF42EAB0FB60AACCE8F56EE6

There are two basic approaches you can take depending on whether you want to prioritise capital preservation or security of income.  Either you take the reduced pension early with the SWR withdrawals from your stash funding the difference between the pension and your spending, or you take the DB at normal retirement age and use part of your stash to backfill for it it the gap between retirement and the pension starting.

We have gone for the second option as we want the security of the bigger guaranteed income.  My wife has a public sector DB of about £10k pa from age 65.  She retired at 54 so 11 x 10 = £110k of the stash was set aside in a bridging pot to backfill for her pension.

I would recommend you get the old spreadsheets out and calculate what both options look like to see which works best for the two of you.  Also have a good think about what they will feel like.  How much will spending a big chunk of capital in the bridging period hurt, vs how much would it hurt to give up some guaranteed income?  This will obvious vary depending on both your personalities and the relative sizes of your DB and stash to your spending requirement - eg if you could both live happily on the actuarily reduced pension there's not much point in hanging on for a  non-reduced one.

Hope this helps

MisterA

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 158
  • Location: UK
Re: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2022, 05:02:57 AM »
There are two basic approaches you can take depending on whether you want to prioritise capital preservation or security of income.  Either you take the reduced pension early with the SWR withdrawals from your stash funding the difference between the pension and your spending, or you take the DB at normal retirement age and use part of your stash to backfill for it it the gap between retirement and the pension starting.

We have gone for the second option as we want the security of the bigger guaranteed income.  My wife has a public sector DB of about £10k pa from age 65.  She retired at 54 so 11 x 10 = £110k of the stash was set aside in a bridging pot to backfill for her pension.
We haven't got there yet, but are planning a 'part way' scenario.

If you log on to the teacher website, you can enter proposed retirement dates, and see the actuarial reduction. My wife has a teacher and 2 council DB pensions. We're covering an initial period with our stash, then she'll take one pension which is payable from age 60, then then the others, phased in. So she has a decent DB pension, takes some actuarial reduction, but gets to finish early.

Of course what ever you do, the state pension won't be received until normal retirement age, so any plans need to account of this also. But make sure you've both qualified for a full state pension (if you can) before finishing work.

There is a 6 year age gap between me and MrsA. We have a tortuous plan of money being phased in at various times, including 3x government/teacher DB pensions, an additional DB pension, 3x private pension stashes and ISA's/savings between us.

Hope my spreadsheet can cope!

PhilB

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5803
Re: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2022, 11:47:48 PM »
We have a tortuous plan of money being phased in at various times, including 3x government/teacher DB pensions, an additional DB pension, 3x private pension stashes and ISA's/savings between us.

Hope my spreadsheet can cope!

I know what you mean.  You just have to hope that you can get to the simpler point where everything is in payment / accessible before your faculties desert you!

MarcherLady

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6049
  • Age: 10
  • Location: North of the Wall, UK
Re: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2022, 02:21:39 AM »
...And it's a good problem to have :-)

MisterA

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 158
  • Location: UK
Re: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2022, 12:33:51 AM »
I know what you mean.  You just have to hope that you can get to the simpler point where everything is in payment / accessible before your faculties desert you!
If I knew how, I'd put a laughter emoji here, but then again it's actually no laughing matter.

...And it's a good problem to have :-)
It sounds like it, but 2 of the DB pensions are worth about £2k/year each. Although as they say, 'every little helps'.

Brit71

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: Finding information on UK teacher / public sector pensions
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2022, 01:36:57 AM »
So I found this entry on Youtube which seems to have an argument for retiring early, but also has a good channel and what looks like a useful spreadsheet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJZOzhl3FH8