Author Topic: Suggestions for "What you need to know about buying an older home" article?  (Read 1514 times)

SwordGuy

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If you were writing an article on "What you need to know about buying an older home", with the intent of preparing clueless American homebuyers not to panic at a home inspection report, what would you include?


Papa bear

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So, this is geared toward the positive side as requested by the OP.  This is all general and will not be a definitive guide to every home or homebuyer.

Old mechanicals does not mean: zomg! This house will burn down when I flip the light switch on! Ahh!

Older mechanicals can be safely used.  We have come up with better materials, practices, and now allow for heavier use, but that doesn’t mean the old way was bad and is an immediate hazard.  Used properly, older mechanicals can still have years of good life left.  (Generally. obviously there are some things that should be addressed immediately, which typically will come out in an inspection)

Asbestos will most likely be found in the house.  If you don’t mess with it, it’s risk is very low.  Best to leave it alone rather than try to remove and replace.  So, not a deal breaker. 

There will be lead paint.  If not inside on windows or trim, then most likely outside from painted siding and windows.  It will typically be found in the soil.  If you have concerns, or have young children, make sure there isn’t pealing paint, wipe up your floors regularly, and don’t eat paint or dirt.  Keep up maintenance and you’re fine! Not a deal breaker!

Older houses have materials and styles that can’t be replicated easily or cheaply.  There’s a good look to plaster walls. If they aren’t damaged, some people like the look and feel more than drywall. Old millwork, doors, trim, etc can have a high degree of craftsmanship that you won’t find readily available today. 

If wood construction, the house would most likely be built from old growth wood (if built 80+ years ago) These 2x dimensional lumber is straight, strong, and can last another 100 years! Cool!

Old houses are very classically styled.  You aren’t going to find 100 year old McMansions.  Bungalows, colonials, Victorians, foursquares, salt boxes, Queen Anne, arts and crafts, and mid century modern are some styles that will still look great for years to come. 

Old growth trees in your landscaping! Good luck finding 100 foot oaks or maple in a new construction area! These take a LONG time to grow and can be a very attractive and functional part of the landscape.  Plus they probably weren’t planted from a tree farm, so they won’t be root bound or have girdled roots that can cause early death. 


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SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Houses are built of components that have a life span. Roof replacement, even siding replacement, window replacement, HVAC replacement  . . . these are not horrific deal breakers. Keep any work like this in mind when making the offer on the house, but don't freak if the inspection says "this roof will need replacing in a few years" - as long as it's not actively leaking now!

Remember to think about the usefulness as opposed to the finish. A kitchen with formica counters and a working stove is as functional as a kitchen with quartz counters and a working stove.

talltexan

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I'd say that--depending on your area--the basement will have water at some point. Be thinking about getting all-weather carpet in there if it's a finished basement. Make sure you know details about a sump pump, etc.

Dicey

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I'd say that--depending on your area--the basement will have water at some point. Be thinking about getting all-weather carpet in there if it's a finished basement. Make sure you know details about a sump pump, etc.
What's a basement?

marty998

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I'd say that--depending on your area--the basement will have water at some point. Be thinking about getting all-weather carpet in there if it's a finished basement. Make sure you know details about a sump pump, etc.
What's a basement?

It's the place where serial killers hide the bodies. Usually in a freezer.

Source: Every TV crime drama ever.

Also it's where horny teenagers get sprung when a parent comes down to turn on the washing machine.

former player

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Older homes have often bagged the best locations. They are likely to be closer to useful facilities, transport links and places of enjoyment.  They may be away from a flood plain or out of the prevailing winds.  They might have the best views or the best conditions for gardening.

There will be good reasons why people chose to build a house there rather than where all the newer houses are: look for those reasons and take advantage of them. 

Fishindude

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If the home is straight, square and relatively level on a decent foundation, just about anything else can be replaced or fixed.
Most of the fears about; Radon, asbestos, lead paint, etc. are way over-stated.
A bad septic system is probably about the biggest, most expensive surprise you could encounter, so inquire about that item.
Most of the home inspections the banks require aren't very good.   You'd be better served to have a contractor walk through and look things over for you.

Good point above about many of the old homes sit in the best locations.

Sibley

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If the home is straight, square and relatively level on a decent foundation, just about anything else can be replaced or fixed.
Most of the fears about; Radon, asbestos, lead paint, etc. are way over-stated.
A bad septic system is probably about the biggest, most expensive surprise you could encounter, so inquire about that item.
Most of the home inspections the banks require aren't very good.   You'd be better served to have a contractor walk through and look things over for you.

Good point above about many of the old homes sit in the best locations.

Alternatively, an older house could be completely solid yet have nothing be straight, square, flat, plumb or level in the entire house. Makes hanging pictures fun.

habanero

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- more money than you though you needed
- a solid marriage / partnership
- preferably no kids to have time for all the DIY needed
- a good stash of power tools

Don't ask me how I know...

On the plus side, as mentioned, they tend to be in the nicer locations, might be built at a time when stuff was built to last "forever" from high-quality materials and might feature amazing craftsmanship done at a time when labor was cheap and/or whoever built the place had tons of money and was willing to spend an awful lot of money on building a house.

I pity the poor soul who would have to tear down the house we currently live in. The dimensions on the main structure are massive and way, way, way beyond anything needed to support a house.



GuitarStv

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If the home is straight, square and relatively level on a decent foundation, just about anything else can be replaced or fixed.

Maybe I've just had strange luck . . . but I've never seen an older home that was straight, square, and relatively level on a decent foundation.  If any of those are deal breakers, then you're probably not going to own an old house.

:P

former player

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Learn to look past dirt, old floor coverings and old paint.  If a house is dry and soundly built then a good clean and some fresh paint will go a long way to making it fit to live in.

ender

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I'd add that the quality of your home inspector is pretty important. Many basically do surface level stuff that you could do with a checklist.

Also, a lot of items on an inspection report doesn't mean bad necessarily. Inspectors are paid after all to inspect something, if they return a blanket "looks great!" result most people would be upset. This means they may report things that feel silly (our deck didn't have hurricane ties for the cross pieces... but they are heavily toenailed in, so I'm not worried). Someone might read that and go "dang deck is going to be bad!" but really it isn't going to matter much.

Something else to consider is what work might have been permitted or not.

TrMama

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If the home is straight, square and relatively level on a decent foundation, just about anything else can be replaced or fixed.

Maybe I've just had strange luck . . . but I've never seen an older home that was straight, square, and relatively level on a decent foundation.  If any of those are deal breakers, then you're probably not going to own an old house.

:P

My nearly new house had none of these things when we moved in.

If you buy and live in a new house long enough, eventually it will be old too.

Getting an inspection report back that has lots of items on it just means you get to renegotiate the price. This is a feature, not a bug.

pecunia

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Just some random things that have come to mind as I have lived in multiple houses.  Opinions will vary.

Look for signs of termites.

Look at the foundation and see that there is good drainage in all directions.  Check for previous water signs in the basement.  Look for cracks in the foundations and despite what others may tell you these may not be show stoppers as such things can be repaired.  Look for signs of leakage in the attic.  Look for cracked plaster as this may show signs that the house is shifting.  Ensure any sump pumps are operational.

Look at the nightmare that may be the fusebox.  Are there three different types of breakers / fuses as the 30 or 60 amp service has had additions cobbled on to it over the years.  What type of heat does it have?  Does the old wood heat show signs of previous creosote and perhaps chimney fires?  Is it gravity, forced air, a boiler or a heat pump?  Look for aluminum wiring.

Look at the exposed wiring.  Are the splices in boxes?  You can fix this, but it gives you a sign of craftsmanship.

Check the furnace filter.  Had the previous owners been changing it?  Listen to the furnace.  Do fans sound OK when operating?

The big problem may be that you just don't have time to look all this stuff over when shuffled through the house by a coffee drinking realtor.  You can hire one of these home inspectors and they may catch really big stuff, but this home inspector thing is often a good gig for a smooth talking half-as^ handyman.

Does it have a working refrigerator, stove and washer / dryer?  If no washer / dryer is there a place to put one?

Look at the electrical outlets.  The NEC has requirements for their placement, but old homes have seen many changes.  Does it have a main breaker for the main panel?  I was surprised to find none in my last house.

Plumbing - If it has a pump, check the water pressure.  Flush a toilet a few times and see how fast the water recovers.  Look at the labyrinth path of pipes in the basement.  Check to see how they are supported.  Have previous owners sawed out load bearing joists?  Look for water leaks below sinks.  These can be fixed, but long term rots the wood below the leaks.  How fast does the bathtub drain?

Windows - Old windows will mean painting the storm windows, puttying the panes and will be less energy efficient.  They can be changed out, but it's time and money.  Aluminum windows are good heat conductors to the outside world in the Winter.

Roof - How old is it?  How many layers of shingles?  It's been easier for some of us to re-roof over the old roofing.  The pros are supposed to tear the old roofing off.  What type of shingles are used?  Metal roofs will last a long time if it has one of those.

You can change stuff around and they make it look so easy and fun on these home renovation shows.  Ask around about people who have gutted homes that they have lived in and totally rebuilt.  I'll bet many will tell you, "I never want to do that again."  If you can get a place that you can just move in and live than your time can be spent on other things.

Metalcat

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Read @marbles4 journal, and then read this thread over at Bogleheads to get a concept of the kinds of things to look out for with old houses https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=286525&newpost=5398658

Dicey

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OMG, DH and have decided now is not the right time for our next flip project, but this thread is weakening my resolve. Lots of great suggestions here. My thought is to include lists of what is relatively easy to DIY and what is best left for professionals. Next would be ideas on where to find good DIY instruction. DH is very skilled, but he's slways using the internet to learn more. He says it"s amazing how much just plain wrong information there is in circulation by self-proclaimed "experts" You Tubers.

SwordGuy

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@Dicey ,

Buying a house and turning it into a rental is a great way to turn a fair bit of one-time work into a long time nearly-passive income stream.   If you do it right, you can do far better than the 4% rule for the stock market in terms of building an FIRE income stream.

Buying one to live in and fix up is a great way to save a lot of money in both principal and interest.   Doing a slow flip over a 2 year time period means you get any income from appreciation tax free.   Do that a few times on the right properties and you've essentially gotten a free house.

Flipping a house can be a great side job but it's riskier if you need to sell it pronto and something happens to the market.


Dicey

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@Dicey ,

Buying a house and turning it into a rental is a great way to turn a fair bit of one-time work into a long time nearly-passive income stream.   If you do it right, you can do far better than the 4% rule for the stock market in terms of building an FIRE income stream.

Buying one to live in and fix up is a great way to save a lot of money in both principal and interest.   Doing a slow flip over a 2 year time period means you get any income from appreciation tax free.   Do that a few times on the right properties and you've essentially gotten a free house.

Flipping a house can be a great side job but it's riskier if you need to sell it pronto and something happens to the market.
Agree completely. Doing all three definitely got us to FI.

Funny, our current house was custom built, but not for us. It was five years old and "done" when we bought it. Except they never are, are they?

better late

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Rambling thoughts on older homes:

Older windows may have rope and pulley systems that need may maintenance to be safely used.

older homes might have Box Gutters which may need maintenance including being relined - not inexpensive.

Chimneys may also need liners to be used safely.

There is a laundry list of odd insulation used in homes over the years including vermiculite which may contain asbestos. Or there may be very little insulation in the house at all.

Lead paint/lead pipes and the need and expense  to call a lead certified contractor to work on your home.

Old oil tanks should have been excavated from the ground.







pecunia

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@Dicey ,

- SNIP -

Buying one to live in and fix up is a great way to save a lot of money in both principal and interest.   Doing a slow flip over a 2 year time period means you get any income from appreciation tax free.   Do that a few times on the right properties and you've essentially gotten a free house.

Flipping a house can be a great side job but it's riskier if you need to sell it pronto and something happens to the market.

I guess if you are ambitious it's 2 years.  Otherwise, you live with the stuff broken until a mad scramble when you need to sell.  Working a full time job and then having house renovation to do in your free time can take fun out of life.  Then there are the surprises.  Old houses always have surprises and mostly not the good kind.

Odd insulation was mentioned - I had a small house that was near what was a sawmill generations ago.  This house was insulated with sawdust.

SwordGuy

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@Dicey ,

- SNIP -

Buying one to live in and fix up is a great way to save a lot of money in both principal and interest.   Doing a slow flip over a 2 year time period means you get any income from appreciation tax free.   Do that a few times on the right properties and you've essentially gotten a free house.

Flipping a house can be a great side job but it's riskier if you need to sell it pronto and something happens to the market.

I guess if you are ambitious it's 2 years.  Otherwise, you live with the stuff broken until a mad scramble when you need to sell.  Working a full time job and then having house renovation to do in your free time can take fun out of life.  Then there are the surprises.  Old houses always have surprises and mostly not the good kind.

Odd insulation was mentioned - I had a small house that was near what was a sawmill generations ago.  This house was insulated with sawdust.

Most side jobs require extra work that's often not fun or convenient.   An intentional slow-flip for a profitable resale is such a side job.   You do it if the end results are worth the cost in time and aggravation -- or if you just have to because that's where you are in life.

Back when we were first married I ended up having to work 12-16 hour days 6-7 days a week for a couple of years.   It wasn't fun.   It was survival.   We were poor and that's what it took to get out of poverty.

Uturn

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Home inspectors are paid to find faults.  If they are good, they will find faults.  That does not necessarily mean the house is bad.

Have an HVAC fund!  Those things don't go out during nice weather and it sucks to have to worry about where the money is coming from during temperature extremes.  I've dealt with two catastrophic A/C failures over the years. The first one I did not have the money to replace it and it was a ton of worry and multiple attempts to fix is cheaper. The second time I had a new unit the next day, at a cash discount.

What's a basement?

It is a glorious place to do woodworking without a care about temperature!  I have never even been in a basement before I moved into this house in December.  It never got colder than 55 and so far 76 is the hottest I've seen.  There is no HVAC, but I do run a dehumidifier and fan.  But those temps are great for working. 

pecunia

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I loved that statement, "What's a basement?"

California!  And, the country is tilted.

Dicey

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I loved that statement, "What's a basement?"

California!  And, the country is tilted.
Yup!

talltexan

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My five-year-old son made one request when we were moving last year: he wanted us to live in a house with a basement.

We weren't able to accommodate this request, which really disappointed him. I try to keep his spirits up by pointing out that he has a whole life ahead of him when living in a basement might still be possible for him.

Just Joe

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Don't blindly accept home inspections. I met with an inspector when we bought our current house. I toured the house with him. Personable guy and knowledgeable. House came with a year warranty too.

On the end both were not really worth their cost. Fortunately the previous owner paid for them. Well, we paid for them through a higher resale price.

Firstly the warranty: we tried to use it three times. The first two times were dismissed by the warranty company as deferred maintenance items that are the home owner's responsibility. You'd think if the a/c broke - then the warranty would repair it. Nope. $250 repair out of pocket. The third - the roof - was not covered in the fine print. We have a roof that leaks over a porch area during slow rains. Drips onto a vinyl ceiling which under normal circumstances drains away from the house shell. In heavy rains apparently it can drain back against the front wall as I have found water marks around an interior light switch.

Warranty would not address the roof problems and the inspector did not spot the water stains on the inside of the roof decking which was easy to see through a closet access. All you needed to do was use a flashlight. I found it easily once I looked. I trusted him to inspect the house thoroughly but did not enter the attic spaces with him. I should have. He also did not notice the outlet taped over with yellow tape in a kitchen kickboard under the stove. And the island isn't screwed down. We'll address all those things but he should have noted them first.

We're in the process of picking a contractor for a new metal roof. Undoubtedly some decking will need to be replaced.