Author Topic: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!  (Read 318676 times)

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #1600 on: June 11, 2024, 11:28:30 AM »
My best friend used pot recreationally and ended up in the psych ward because it led to a psychotic break.  He was a 35 year old man running around his neighborhood, naked, convinced that the police were cylons.  That was after he assaulted his wife and her friend in the house. 

When I visited my friend in the psych ward, I talked to the doctor and he said that here in Denver the whole system is being over-run with cases like this.

Yeah, for me what happens is that I lose my grip on whether I'm dreaming or awake, and I cycle back and forth between believing each state every few minutes.

It happened twice in 20 years and I assumed both times were because I just took too much. Then I tried a bit a few years ago and I was fine, really no big deal, but then 9 hours after trying it I was home alone and DH walked through the door and my reality snapped.

That's when I realized that it was never the pot that caused that reaction, it was my own brain breaking and the pot was just catalyzing a reaction that my own brain was readily able to have.

Before that, every few years I was willing to try a tiny amount, but after that I won't ever, ever touch the shit again because even though I'm well over 25, the risk of permanent psychosis just will never be worth it.

Lol, especially for a drug that I have never liked.

PoutineLover

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #1601 on: June 11, 2024, 11:44:47 AM »
I don't think fear mongering works because teens can easily see people around them smoking with no visible ill effects or at least not worse than alcohol. It makes it seem like adults are just out of touch and lame.

I started smoking it around age 16 and stopped regularly smoking around age 27, and throughout that time I saw a lot of friends get addicted, lose motivation, get bad anxiety when they smoked, and one friend who had schizophrenia who could have plausibly triggered it with heavy smoking. I didn't have any serious effects and I never smoked as much as some, but it took time for any of us to realize the bad effects. Same for alcohol, what's fun and games at first gets more serious for people who start to do it habitually and excessively. I drink a lot less now too, because it's not as fun anymore and I'm more aware of the health implications.

I think it's normal for kids to experiment a little, but it's important for them to have factual information, feel like they can talk or question it openly, and have support instead of judgement. I hope that my kids don't turn into stoners or abuse alcohol or other drugs, and I hope that my parenting can give them the tools to make the right decisions about it.

horsemom

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #1602 on: June 11, 2024, 12:21:40 PM »
I'm so grateful for this conversation - I've gone alcohol free for several stints, but always went back to very casual wine drinking (half glass with dinner a few times a week).  This is making me rethink all of it!

Also, at the risk of derailing, would anyone be willing to share additional insights into the risks of pot?  We've dealt with addiction issues in our family.  One member actually just wrapped a 3 month stint at rehab for pot - if anyone tells you that pot is not addictive, feel free to send them my way....

That said, I have a child heading off to college.  While he swears he'll never touch the stuff (he does socially drink), any facts that I can share with him around impacts to younger people would be really helpful.  I live in a state that legalized recreational use and the common theme is that it's "the same" as drinking.  I know I can google, but anything powerful that I can share with him would be most appreciated!  So far, I've pointed out how much more powerful it is now than it was back in my day, and that we don't fully understand the long-term impacts on young brains.  Oh, and I've threatened to not pay for college if I find out he so much as experiments with it!  Not sure it's my finest parenting moment, but I feel so strongly about it, that I pulled out the big guns...  Thank you in advance for sharing thoughts!

For me it's mostly the risk of schizophrenia. There are absolutely shocking stats about how radically it increases the risk of developing schizophrenia later on if used by young men before the age of 25.

Now if we know it's causing schizophrenia in young men at alarming rates, what other kinds of neurological developmental damage is it possibly causing??

That said, if you come off as alarmist, then nothing you say will deter him l, and may do the opposite.

When I talk to young people about drugs and alcohol I focus less on telling them "what's what" and more on taking a keen interest in *their* perspectives, what their peers see as normal, what they're curious about.

If you try to scare them, they're most likely to ignore you because they don't find it comfortable to feel that fear pushed up against their own curiosity and social norms, so they'll just bat it away.

When I tell young people about the schizophrenia risk, I frame it more with a discourse that I'm really grateful I didn't try pot until I was 18 and that when I did, I didn't like it, because I didn't realize at the time how huge a risk I was taking. Now that I know, I thank my lucky stars that I didn't like it and that I wasn't one to conform to peer pressure.

Kids can really relate to that kind of thinking more than "you should be terrified of using this ubiquitous drug that every friend will tell you is no worse than a cup of coffee." You will just sound ridiculous.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and perspectives - point taken.  I'll absolutely keep my approach in mind....

BECABECA

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #1603 on: June 11, 2024, 12:26:08 PM »
As someone who has never had any mental health issues needing medication, and has only used pot a few times a year since it got legalized, even I have noticed the concerning effects on my mood. It floods you with dopamine during the high and the next day as my body adjusts I feel noticeably depressed. It is known that frequently flooding your brain with dopamine ups your requirement/tolerance for it, as drug users no longer feel the same high from doses that used to generate a high, and pot and alcohol are no exceptions. And in the same token, normal life things that used to give a dopamine high like eating a good meal with friends or going for a beautiful hike donít register at all anymore.

These things ought to have warning labels on them: do you suffer from depression, anxiety, or ever question your reality? Do you want to?

GuitarStv

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #1604 on: June 11, 2024, 12:53:39 PM »
My understanding is that it's the THC in pot that seems to be the cause of the schizophrenic problem.  Particularly with large doses of THC, it's common for people to report feeling paranoid or scared of stuff.  At extremely high doses THC is supposed to act like a full on psychedelic with hallucinations and the whole nine yards.  CBD is another chemical from the marijuana plant that seems to prevent/mitigate this side of THC.  When taken with THC, it significantly reduces the dizzy and paranoid feelings and replacing them with the stereotypical relaxed/sleepy/mellow kind of thing.  Seems like combining the two is the route to go if someone's determined to use at a young age.

Another thing that impacts all men who use marijuana is the testosterone suppressing and estrogen increasing effects of pot.  This can cause abnormalities in sperm and (probably more concerning to a young man) there is some evidence that this occasionally results in growing boobs (gynecomastia) and weight gain (which itself has testosterone decreasing/estrogen increasing effects).

General warning - smoking pot is completely different than eating it.  Smoking pot the THC enters your blood stream immediately and you get a high feeling very quickly.  Eating it typically takes an hour for effects to show and 2-3 hours for effects to peak.  The THC is converted into 11-hydroxy-THC in high quantities in the liver (which is why it's slower).  11-hydroxy-THC produces a much longer lasting and more powerful high than what you get from smoking.  Because of these mechanisms it's very common for someone new to THC to take an edible, feel no effects, take more edible, feel no effects, take more edible, and then experience a very bad trip that lasts for an extremely long time.

Other misc stuff:
- Research on impacts to memory are confusing and contradictory.  Some show memory problems arising from use of THC, some show no memory problems.
- Daily use of THC has been shown to impair sleep quality and duration.  It can take weeks/months of stopping usage to get back to normal sleeping patterns.  Short term, THC acts well as a sedative and can increase duration of sleep at the cost of duration of REM sleep.
- Smoking pot is still smoking and can give you lung cancer
- Thanks to selective breeding, THC levels in pot are way higher today than they were in the past.  It's very important to start low and go slow.  If you're going to consume, figure out exactly how much you're consuming and learn what your tolerance/limits are.  Taking a lot of high potency THC all at once is stupid.
 It's like like chugging a bottle of vodka - really bad for you.  That doesn't mean that having a single beer (or a reasonable amount of THC) is the same thing.  If you are going to use, use responsibly.
- THC impacts the body differently than alcohol.  Chronic THC use starts at about twice a week.  Chronic alcohol use is around one beer a day.  Recognize this difference and moderate your usage patterns.

Dicey

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #1605 on: June 11, 2024, 12:58:14 PM »
ETA: another factor is that Gen Z don't socialize like older generations. Gathering in larger groups of folks you don't feel totally comfortable with where booze removes your social misgivings just isn't the norm anymore.

AND feeling awkward and alienated in a social context isn't something to numb away, it's something to experience deeply and make content about for clout.

Ah, so the younger generation's social retardation is beneficial in it's protective effects against the ills of alcohol?
Dude, our language had evolved. Please catch up. Using that word the way you did makes you look like a...dope. Find another word please; it's not particularly difficult.

Tyson

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #1606 on: June 11, 2024, 01:02:19 PM »
I think it's clear that pot is not a safe choice.  No health benefits and massive downsides for a substantial portion of the population.

As an alcoholic myself, I can see how pot is attractive to people because you can use it to sooth yourself in the short term. 

It would be better if people learned to self-sooth using something else besides powerful, addictive, harmful drugs.

GuitarStv

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #1607 on: June 11, 2024, 02:15:36 PM »
ETA: another factor is that Gen Z don't socialize like older generations. Gathering in larger groups of folks you don't feel totally comfortable with where booze removes your social misgivings just isn't the norm anymore.

AND feeling awkward and alienated in a social context isn't something to numb away, it's something to experience deeply and make content about for clout.

Ah, so the younger generation's social retardation is beneficial in it's protective effects against the ills of alcohol?
Dude, our language had evolved. Please catch up. Using that word the way you did makes you look like a...dope. Find another word please; it's not particularly difficult.

Fair.  I grew up hearing/using the term and it is often the first thing that pops to mind and shouldn't.  I should have used 'disability' in place of 'retardation'.  I've modified the original post.

BECABECA

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #1608 on: June 11, 2024, 02:23:36 PM »
ETA: another factor is that Gen Z don't socialize like older generations. Gathering in larger groups of folks you don't feel totally comfortable with where booze removes your social misgivings just isn't the norm anymore.

AND feeling awkward and alienated in a social context isn't something to numb away, it's something to experience deeply and make content about for clout.

Ah, so the younger generation's social retardation is beneficial in it's protective effects against the ills of alcohol?
Dude, our language had evolved. Please catch up. Using that word the way you did makes you look like a...dope. Find another word please; it's not particularly difficult.

Fair.  I grew up hearing/using the term and it is often the first thing that pops to mind and shouldn't.  I should have used 'disability' in place of 'retardation'.  I've modified the original post.

I fucking love this forum, thanks for continually making it a great place.