Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 1496196 times)

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8550 on: February 04, 2025, 08:36:23 AM »
Well my insurer thanks you guys!  I'm getting quotes to increase my coverages to meet the umbrella minimums, adding uninsured coverage (had been self insuring for that, but it's the coverage I've used the most here in Houston), then another $1,450 for $2M of umbrella from Progressive...  Also can't wait until my daughter wraps up college and moves out, mainly so that they are on the hook for liability and not us...  We'd still help them with premiums, but remove our assets from exposure.  My son is out of the house, so I also need to move him on to his own policy.  I thought I was being nice (and saving money) keeping him on our insurance, but now realize why that isn't very wise.

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8551 on: February 04, 2025, 08:50:33 AM »
Well my insurer thanks you guys!  I'm getting quotes to increase my coverages to meet the umbrella minimums, adding uninsured coverage (had been self insuring for that, but it's the coverage I've used the most here in Houston), then another $1,450 for $2M of umbrella from Progressive...  Also can't wait until my daughter wraps up college and moves out, mainly so that they are on the hook for liability and not us...  We'd still help them with premiums, but remove our assets from exposure.  My son is out of the house, so I also need to move him on to his own policy.  I thought I was being nice (and saving money) keeping him on our insurance, but now realize why that isn't very wise.

Wow, nearly $1500 for $2m of umbrella? Is that because of kids? Ours is $400 from State Farm for $4m coverage, (we also have auto and home through them) but we don't have children.

Arbitrage

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8552 on: February 05, 2025, 10:20:38 AM »
if you do get into a situation where an umbrella policy is needed to cover a claim then whoever is suing you will generally stop at the limit of the umbrella policy. going over that would involve an awful lot of work and effort for both side - not to mention the expense. Your policy would still cover the legal fees. if it ever got to court then the attempt to go beyond the insurance coverage would be viewed very unfavorably and the verdict is unlikely to go beyond the insurance amount anyway. Even if it did then whoever sued you would have the issue of collecting the amounts and the further issue of multiple rounds of appeals. It makes far more sense economically to settle for policy limits now than go through a decade of court procedures , expense and appeals only to find out that you'd spent all the money and there was nothing to collect!

I have friends who sued the owner of a vacation home after a negligent maintenance issue caused serious injuries, several of them life-altering, to many of them (>10).  Though the medical and related bills far exceeded the $2M umbrella policy, they did not pursue anything beyond that.  I admit not knowing the details, but when it was a question of taking a settlement or going to court for years to try to get what may or may not have even been there, they just wanted to be done with the whole ordeal.  The friends, collectively, certainly had the financial means to pursue further legal action, but not the psychological will. 

TempusFugit

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8553 on: February 05, 2025, 10:25:59 AM »
I just received my renewal notice for my State Farm $1M umbrella and it increased 16% this year to $175.

Still worth it, I guess, but annoying that there’s such an increase (which of course goes along with auto increase and the homeowners increase..)

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8554 on: February 05, 2025, 10:53:53 AM »
Well my insurer thanks you guys!  I'm getting quotes to increase my coverages to meet the umbrella minimums, adding uninsured coverage (had been self insuring for that, but it's the coverage I've used the most here in Houston), then another $1,450 for $2M of umbrella from Progressive...  Also can't wait until my daughter wraps up college and moves out, mainly so that they are on the hook for liability and not us...  We'd still help them with premiums, but remove our assets from exposure.  My son is out of the house, so I also need to move him on to his own policy.  I thought I was being nice (and saving money) keeping him on our insurance, but now realize why that isn't very wise.

Wow, nearly $1500 for $2m of umbrella? Is that because of kids? Ours is $400 from State Farm for $4m coverage, (we also have auto and home through them) but we don't have children.

I was pretty specific about what liabilities I wanted to be sure were covered.  I think some of the less expensive policies only cover things like your multimillion dollar art collection or libel/slander lawsuits if you post a lot online.  I'm lucky to have an insurance broker and CPA / lawyer that I've worked with for years, so they know me and my situation pretty well.  Cost will probably go down once my daughter graduates and is on her own, but I don't think I'll ever get as low as others are quoting!

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8555 on: February 05, 2025, 11:48:07 AM »
Just updated my January net worth spreadsheet, and we've moved to $3.9 million up from $3.7 million.  We overspent our income last month, but the portfolio went up.  Crazy how that works.  Thank you, past self. I was shocked when I was able to join this group in the first place, and now I'm "almost" to the beyond.  DH is due to receive a bonus ($ amount communicated already) in March that should get us to the beyond barring the crazy market conditions.  Even though we aren't saving most months (cash flowing 2 kids in college), the momentum continues.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8556 on: February 05, 2025, 12:34:42 PM »
Just updated my January net worth spreadsheet, and we've moved to $3.9 million up from $3.7 million.  We overspent our income last month, but the portfolio went up.  Crazy how that works.  Thank you, past self. I was shocked when I was able to join this group in the first place, and now I'm "almost" to the beyond.  DH is due to receive a bonus ($ amount communicated already) in March that should get us to the beyond barring the crazy market conditions.  Even though we aren't saving most months (cash flowing 2 kids in college), the momentum continues.

First - thank you for bringing this back on topic.  Umbrella insurance is great and all, and I learned a few things, but not maybe in its own thread.

Second -did I miss a market move?  5% increase in January when value and gold might be what increased, or individual stocks.  S&P, DOW, Nasdaq, QQQ, BTC, International, didn't do that. 

But yeah, it's great when the portfolio goes up even after overspending and like you paid for spring semester (all costs) and still went up in January - although not 5% for me.

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8557 on: February 05, 2025, 07:24:11 PM »
Just updated my January net worth spreadsheet, and we've moved to $3.9 million up from $3.7 million.  We overspent our income last month, but the portfolio went up.  Crazy how that works.  Thank you, past self. I was shocked when I was able to join this group in the first place, and now I'm "almost" to the beyond.  DH is due to receive a bonus ($ amount communicated already) in March that should get us to the beyond barring the crazy market conditions.  Even though we aren't saving most months (cash flowing 2 kids in college), the momentum continues.

First - thank you for bringing this back on topic.  Umbrella insurance is great and all, and I learned a few things, but not maybe in its own thread.

Second -did I miss a market move?  5% increase in January when value and gold might be what increased, or individual stocks.  S&P, DOW, Nasdaq, QQQ, BTC, International, didn't do that. 

But yeah, it's great when the portfolio goes up even after overspending and like you paid for spring semester (all costs) and still went up in January - although not 5% for me.

Private equity annual appraisal was received. We are conservative on it, and don’t report until the valuations get updated. So about a year’s worth of income on one area of our portfolio. Plus RSUs vested in January. You didn’t miss a market move.

dividendman

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8558 on: February 06, 2025, 12:46:15 AM »
Just updated my January net worth spreadsheet, and we've moved to $3.9 million up from $3.7 million.  We overspent our income last month, but the portfolio went up.  Crazy how that works.  Thank you, past self. I was shocked when I was able to join this group in the first place, and now I'm "almost" to the beyond.  DH is due to receive a bonus ($ amount communicated already) in March that should get us to the beyond barring the crazy market conditions.  Even though we aren't saving most months (cash flowing 2 kids in college), the momentum continues.

First - thank you for bringing this back on topic.  Umbrella insurance is great and all, and I learned a few things, but not maybe in its own thread.

Second -did I miss a market move?  5% increase in January when value and gold might be what increased, or individual stocks.  S&P, DOW, Nasdaq, QQQ, BTC, International, didn't do that. 

But yeah, it's great when the portfolio goes up even after overspending and like you paid for spring semester (all costs) and still went up in January - although not 5% for me.

I like when this thread goes "off topic". How many times can we say that we're even richer now? I like seeing how people with similar NW deal with similar problems, like umbrella insurance.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8559 on: February 06, 2025, 06:26:24 AM »
Just updated my January net worth spreadsheet, and we've moved to $3.9 million up from $3.7 million.  We overspent our income last month, but the portfolio went up.  Crazy how that works.  Thank you, past self. I was shocked when I was able to join this group in the first place, and now I'm "almost" to the beyond.  DH is due to receive a bonus ($ amount communicated already) in March that should get us to the beyond barring the crazy market conditions.  Even though we aren't saving most months (cash flowing 2 kids in college), the momentum continues.

First - thank you for bringing this back on topic.  Umbrella insurance is great and all, and I learned a few things, but not maybe in its own thread.

Second -did I miss a market move?  5% increase in January when value and gold might be what increased, or individual stocks.  S&P, DOW, Nasdaq, QQQ, BTC, International, didn't do that. 

But yeah, it's great when the portfolio goes up even after overspending and like you paid for spring semester (all costs) and still went up in January - although not 5% for me.

I like when this thread goes "off topic". How many times can we say that we're even richer now? I like seeing how people with similar NW deal with similar problems, like umbrella insurance.
+1
I personally don't care about the race anymore. I know that it's very likely, if not guaranteed that we've got enough. But I often have "rich people problems" that I'm not sure how to answer. Sure I can ask my insurance agent, my accountant, my lawyer but all those folks have a bias. I often just need to know what other people who are in a similar situation do. I can't ask the general forum because the answer there is often to never spend any money on anything. I've past that point.
And, we will honestly need support to spend our money. I don't think I'm the only person on this thread that wrestles with financial decisions as if I'm still supposed to be accumulating, when in fact I shouldn't be. For example, I bought a $60k car this year. I'm enjoying it, but I STILL feel guilty about it. I paid cash and have a $5M net worth. Why would I feel guilty about a car purchase?
I guess I could go over to bogleheads and ask, but I don't like them as much.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8560 on: February 06, 2025, 07:08:32 AM »
Just updated my January net worth spreadsheet, and we've moved to $3.9 million up from $3.7 million.  We overspent our income last month, but the portfolio went up.  Crazy how that works.  Thank you, past self. I was shocked when I was able to join this group in the first place, and now I'm "almost" to the beyond.  DH is due to receive a bonus ($ amount communicated already) in March that should get us to the beyond barring the crazy market conditions.  Even though we aren't saving most months (cash flowing 2 kids in college), the momentum continues.

First - thank you for bringing this back on topic.  Umbrella insurance is great and all, and I learned a few things, but not maybe in its own thread.

Second -did I miss a market move?  5% increase in January when value and gold might be what increased, or individual stocks.  S&P, DOW, Nasdaq, QQQ, BTC, International, didn't do that. 

But yeah, it's great when the portfolio goes up even after overspending and like you paid for spring semester (all costs) and still went up in January - although not 5% for me.

I like when this thread goes "off topic". How many times can we say that we're even richer now? I like seeing how people with similar NW deal with similar problems, like umbrella insurance.
Yeah, I really like how this single thread is almost a one-stop shopping for me.

Looks like I've went from $5.2M to $5.1M in December and now back to $5.2M.  Other than a repair I had to do on a property I sold and college tuition for this semester from the 529 I pretty much spent what I made this month with my 15 hr/wk job, which is my only real spending goal.  I always just try to keep in mind that what I spend in A month doesn't matter....but what I spend PER month does .... I also like what I'm seeing now on big market moving days that my now more conservative portfolio is not as volatile as it was before.  Its now just become a very boring large pot of money (that can still make $100k in a month....)

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8561 on: February 06, 2025, 07:16:39 AM »
Just updated my January net worth spreadsheet, and we've moved to $3.9 million up from $3.7 million.  We overspent our income last month, but the portfolio went up.  Crazy how that works.  Thank you, past self. I was shocked when I was able to join this group in the first place, and now I'm "almost" to the beyond.  DH is due to receive a bonus ($ amount communicated already) in March that should get us to the beyond barring the crazy market conditions.  Even though we aren't saving most months (cash flowing 2 kids in college), the momentum continues.

First - thank you for bringing this back on topic.  Umbrella insurance is great and all, and I learned a few things, but not maybe in its own thread.

Second -did I miss a market move?  5% increase in January when value and gold might be what increased, or individual stocks.  S&P, DOW, Nasdaq, QQQ, BTC, International, didn't do that. 

But yeah, it's great when the portfolio goes up even after overspending and like you paid for spring semester (all costs) and still went up in January - although not 5% for me.

I like when this thread goes "off topic". How many times can we say that we're even richer now? I like seeing how people with similar NW deal with similar problems, like umbrella insurance.
+1
I personally don't care about the race anymore. I know that it's very likely, if not guaranteed that we've got enough. But I often have "rich people problems" that I'm not sure how to answer. Sure I can ask my insurance agent, my accountant, my lawyer but all those folks have a bias. I often just need to know what other people who are in a similar situation do. I can't ask the general forum because the answer there is often to never spend any money on anything. I've past that point.
And, we will honestly need support to spend our money. I don't think I'm the only person on this thread that wrestles with financial decisions as if I'm still supposed to be accumulating, when in fact I shouldn't be. For example, I bought a $60k car this year. I'm enjoying it, but I STILL feel guilty about it. I paid cash and have a $5M net worth. Why would I feel guilty about a car purchase?
I guess I could go over to bogleheads and ask, but I don't like them as much.

Exact same thing going on with my wife.  Her car has become unreliable with some odd electrical issues (I think dangerously so) and so we're replacing it with a new $50k vehicle.  She's having incredible guilt over it for someone worth $5M.  I myself just don't really have a lot of wants I'd spend a ton of money on, but a reliable car is certainly one.  And back when I was worth "only" $1M (and so not FI), I would have wanted to save as much as I could and maybe not bought new, but come on, she's gonna drive it at least 5-7 years anyway...

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8562 on: February 06, 2025, 07:28:38 AM »
Just updated my January net worth spreadsheet, and we've moved to $3.9 million up from $3.7 million.  We overspent our income last month, but the portfolio went up.  Crazy how that works.  Thank you, past self. I was shocked when I was able to join this group in the first place, and now I'm "almost" to the beyond.  DH is due to receive a bonus ($ amount communicated already) in March that should get us to the beyond barring the crazy market conditions.  Even though we aren't saving most months (cash flowing 2 kids in college), the momentum continues.

First - thank you for bringing this back on topic.  Umbrella insurance is great and all, and I learned a few things, but not maybe in its own thread.

Second -did I miss a market move?  5% increase in January when value and gold might be what increased, or individual stocks.  S&P, DOW, Nasdaq, QQQ, BTC, International, didn't do that. 

But yeah, it's great when the portfolio goes up even after overspending and like you paid for spring semester (all costs) and still went up in January - although not 5% for me.

I like when this thread goes "off topic". How many times can we say that we're even richer now? I like seeing how people with similar NW deal with similar problems, like umbrella insurance.
+1
I personally don't care about the race anymore. I know that it's very likely, if not guaranteed that we've got enough. But I often have "rich people problems" that I'm not sure how to answer. Sure I can ask my insurance agent, my accountant, my lawyer but all those folks have a bias. I often just need to know what other people who are in a similar situation do. I can't ask the general forum because the answer there is often to never spend any money on anything. I've past that point.
And, we will honestly need support to spend our money. I don't think I'm the only person on this thread that wrestles with financial decisions as if I'm still supposed to be accumulating, when in fact I shouldn't be. For example, I bought a $60k car this year. I'm enjoying it, but I STILL feel guilty about it. I paid cash and have a $5M net worth. Why would I feel guilty about a car purchase?
I guess I could go over to bogleheads and ask, but I don't like them as much.

Exact same thing going on with my wife.  Her car has become unreliable with some odd electrical issues (I think dangerously so) and so we're replacing it with a new $50k vehicle.  She's having incredible guilt over it for someone worth $5M.  I myself just don't really have a lot of wants I'd spend a ton of money on, but a reliable car is certainly one.  And back when I was worth "only" $1M (and so not FI), I would have wanted to save as much as I could and maybe not bought new, but come on, she's gonna drive it at least 5-7 years anyway...

I had a 12 year old Honda CRV. I bought it 2 years used with 20,00 miles on it. Paid $22k cash. Drove it ten years and it has become the "kid car". In other words a car for my kids to drive that I OWN. We refuse to give them a car until they graduate college.
So I started shopping. Original plan was another CRV slightly used. Budget of $40k. But then that seemed so small. And then I wanted a hybrid. So I started looking at Toyota Highlanders. It has captains chairs in the second row for my teen boys. So much room. But there are very few used Hybrid Toyota Highlanders out there. And they want a nearly new price. So I bought a 2024 demo model which had the platinum trim level. Way, way more than I would ever need in a car. I have always preached about not spending a lot on vehicles and somehow I bought a Toyota that cost more than many, many luxury cars. Ugh. But it's like riding in a cloud.
Two weeks after I bought the car DH was rear ended by a semi and totaled his 2020 Honda Accord. Which we bought slightly used. Well, unfortunately they don't make the 2.0T Honda Accord anymore. He hates the 1.5L engine and they Hybrid Accord. So this week we replaced it with a slightly used Acura TLX.
yeah. I'm hoping we're done buying cars for awhile. A long while.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8563 on: February 06, 2025, 08:00:38 AM »
Talk of froth in the thread did prompt me to go over to my financial plan at right capital to look at the numbers.  What just stuck me most was that over the past 6 years my DAF(s) have grown to close to one year of salary, that’s with send money out on a regular basis.  It’s likely time to raise my monthly donations to some charities or add a new one again.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8564 on: February 06, 2025, 08:37:51 AM »
Talk of froth in the thread did prompt me to go over to my financial plan at right capital to look at the numbers.  What just stuck me most was that over the past 6 years my DAF(s) have grown to close to one year of salary, that’s with send money out on a regular basis.  It’s likely time to raise my monthly donations to some charities or add a new one again.

I showed one of my kids my DAF as the perfect example of what you can accomplish when being smart with money.  In my big outlier year I put $100k in it, which only really cost me $50k because I saved half given my tax bracket and that it was appreciated securities.  I basically put it all into the S&P 500.

That was in 2018.  Since then I've given away over $50K from it (which again is all it really cost me to set up), and its balance has still grown from $100k to $160k.  I only do some of my giving from it now but once I'm totally retired it'll all come from there (given a charitable donation will not be worth anything to me then), so don't mind that its growing for now.

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8565 on: February 06, 2025, 10:48:58 AM »
Sort of a general PSA:

For those here with charitable inclinations who are currently using a DAF, QCDs when you reach 70.5 probably are a more tax-efficient way to give.  The key point to understand is that QCDs reduce your AGI, not just your taxable income.  This is important because your AGI can trigger IRMAA.  QCDs will also meet any as-yet-unmet RMD requirement for the current year.

If you're married, both spouses can make QCDs up to $105K this year.  The $105K is adjusted for inflation each year.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8566 on: February 06, 2025, 11:09:28 AM »
Sort of a general PSA:

For those here with charitable inclinations who are currently using a DAF, QCDs when you reach 70.5 probably are a more tax-efficient way to give.  The key point to understand is that QCDs reduce your AGI, not just your taxable income.  This is important because your AGI can trigger IRMAA.  QCDs will also meet any as-yet-unmet RMD requirement for the current year.

If you're married, both spouses can make QCDs up to $105K this year.  The $105K is adjusted for inflation each year.

And why personal finance is well personal.  My pension plus social security is likely to have me above the IRMAA limit by themselves.  Now if I’m looking to give away massive amounts after 70 I’m likely to use QCDs but it’s not going to affect IRMAA at all.  Also QCDs aren’t going to help fund my charitable endeavors for another 24 years but the DAF will.

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8567 on: February 06, 2025, 11:38:27 AM »
Sort of a general PSA:

For those here with charitable inclinations who are currently using a DAF, QCDs when you reach 70.5 probably are a more tax-efficient way to give.  The key point to understand is that QCDs reduce your AGI, not just your taxable income.  This is important because your AGI can trigger IRMAA.  QCDs will also meet any as-yet-unmet RMD requirement for the current year.

If you're married, both spouses can make QCDs up to $105K this year.  The $105K is adjusted for inflation each year.

And why personal finance is well personal.  My pension plus social security is likely to have me above the IRMAA limit by themselves.  Now if I’m looking to give away massive amounts after 70 I’m likely to use QCDs but it’s not going to affect IRMAA at all.  Also QCDs aren’t going to help fund my charitable endeavors for another 24 years but the DAF will.

There are five IRMAA brackets, so QCDs can still be helpful to avoid creeping into the "next" one.

And yes, if you're under 70.5, you can't even use QCDs so DAFs are in most cases the best choice there.

The main reason for posting is for people to just be aware and consider it in the context of their entire personal finance situation.  There are probably a lot of folks here who might find them useful.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8568 on: February 06, 2025, 12:04:56 PM »
Just updated my January net worth spreadsheet, and we've moved to $3.9 million up from $3.7 million.  We overspent our income last month, but the portfolio went up.  Crazy how that works.  Thank you, past self. I was shocked when I was able to join this group in the first place, and now I'm "almost" to the beyond.  DH is due to receive a bonus ($ amount communicated already) in March that should get us to the beyond barring the crazy market conditions.  Even though we aren't saving most months (cash flowing 2 kids in college), the momentum continues.

First - thank you for bringing this back on topic.  Umbrella insurance is great and all, and I learned a few things, but not maybe in its own thread.

Second -did I miss a market move?  5% increase in January when value and gold might be what increased, or individual stocks.  S&P, DOW, Nasdaq, QQQ, BTC, International, didn't do that. 

But yeah, it's great when the portfolio goes up even after overspending and like you paid for spring semester (all costs) and still went up in January - although not 5% for me.

I like when this thread goes "off topic". How many times can we say that we're even richer now? I like seeing how people with similar NW deal with similar problems, like umbrella insurance.
+1
I personally don't care about the race anymore. I know that it's very likely, if not guaranteed that we've got enough. But I often have "rich people problems" that I'm not sure how to answer. Sure I can ask my insurance agent, my accountant, my lawyer but all those folks have a bias. I often just need to know what other people who are in a similar situation do. I can't ask the general forum because the answer there is often to never spend any money on anything. I've past that point.
And, we will honestly need support to spend our money. I don't think I'm the only person on this thread that wrestles with financial decisions as if I'm still supposed to be accumulating, when in fact I shouldn't be. For example, I bought a $60k car this year. I'm enjoying it, but I STILL feel guilty about it. I paid cash and have a $5M net worth. Why would I feel guilty about a car purchase?
I guess I could go over to bogleheads and ask, but I don't like them as much.



Race? What Race?  Haha.   Heck, I don't think I ever posted an amount here and if I did it is certainly not regularly.   

I enjoy going off topic as much as anyone, and may even be guilty of doing it more than anyone, but the umbrella topic seemed to go on for many many posts....and also was being somewhat facetious.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2025, 08:17:46 AM by tooqk4u22 »

markbike528CBX

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8569 on: February 06, 2025, 01:07:13 PM »
Sort of a general PSA:

For those here with charitable inclinations who are currently using a DAF, QCDs when you reach 70.5 probably are a more tax-efficient way to give.  The key point to understand is that QCDs reduce your AGI, not just your taxable income.  This is important because your AGI can trigger IRMAA.  QCDs will also meet any as-yet-unmet RMD requirement for the current year.

If you're married, both spouses can make QCDs up to $105K this year.  The $105K is adjusted for inflation each year.

And why personal finance is well personal.  My pension plus social security is likely to have me above the IRMAA limit by themselves.  Now if I’m looking to give away massive amounts after 70 I’m likely to use QCDs but it’s not going to affect IRMAA at all.  Also QCDs aren’t going to help fund my charitable endeavors for another 24 years but the DAF will.

There are five IRMAA brackets, so QCDs can still be helpful to avoid creeping into the "next" one.

And yes, if you're under 70.5, you can't even use QCDs so DAFs are in most cases the best choice there.

The main reason for posting is for people to just be aware and consider it in the context of their entire personal finance situation.  There are probably a lot of folks here who might find them useful.

A few definitions of fairly obscure, unlikely to apply to most people, acronyms would be helpful.
Please, at least spell out the acronym so we can be certain what we need to look up.
Yes, someone (like me, retired) can look it up.

IRMAA
Income-related monthly adjusted amount (IRMAA), which is a surcharge added to the Part B and Part D premiums
For 2025, the threshold will increase to $106,000 for a single individual. $212,000 if you’re married
https://www.medicareresources.org/medicare-eligibility-and-enrollment/what-is-the-income-related-monthly-adjusted-amount-irmaa/

DAF
Donor Advised Fund
When you contribute cash, securities, or other assets to a donor-advised fund at a public charity, like ..........., you are generally eligible to take an immediate tax deduction. Then those funds can be invested for tax-free growth, and you can recommend grants to any eligible IRS-qualified public charity.
https://www.fidelitycharitable.org/guidance/philanthropy/what-is-a-donor-advised-fund.html

QCD. --- I'm reasonably certain what this three letter acronym is.. please correct me.
A qualified charitable distribution (QCD) allows individuals who are 70½ years old or older to donate up to $108,000 total to one or more charities directly from a taxable IRA instead of taking their required minimum distributions.
https://www.fidelitycharitable.org/guidance/philanthropy/qualified-charitable-distribution.html

I mention these things because I have a friend who is triggered by all these "hidden fees, taxes" ideas, even if, and especially if,  they do NOT apply to the friend.

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8570 on: February 06, 2025, 03:52:31 PM »
Sort of a general PSA:

For those here with charitable inclinations who are currently using a DAF, QCDs when you reach 70.5 probably are a more tax-efficient way to give.  The key point to understand is that QCDs reduce your AGI, not just your taxable income.  This is important because your AGI can trigger IRMAA.  QCDs will also meet any as-yet-unmet RMD requirement for the current year.

If you're married, both spouses can make QCDs up to $105K this year.  The $105K is adjusted for inflation each year.

And why personal finance is well personal.  My pension plus social security is likely to have me above the IRMAA limit by themselves.  Now if I’m looking to give away massive amounts after 70 I’m likely to use QCDs but it’s not going to affect IRMAA at all.  Also QCDs aren’t going to help fund my charitable endeavors for another 24 years but the DAF will.

There are five IRMAA brackets, so QCDs can still be helpful to avoid creeping into the "next" one.

And yes, if you're under 70.5, you can't even use QCDs so DAFs are in most cases the best choice there.

The main reason for posting is for people to just be aware and consider it in the context of their entire personal finance situation.  There are probably a lot of folks here who might find them useful.

A few definitions of fairly obscure, unlikely to apply to most people, acronyms would be helpful.
Please, at least spell out the acronym so we can be certain what we need to look up.
Yes, someone (like me, retired) can look it up.

IRMAA
Income-related monthly adjusted amount (IRMAA), which is a surcharge added to the Part B and Part D premiums
For 2025, the threshold will increase to $106,000 for a single individual. $212,000 if you’re married
https://www.medicareresources.org/medicare-eligibility-and-enrollment/what-is-the-income-related-monthly-adjusted-amount-irmaa/

DAF
Donor Advised Fund
When you contribute cash, securities, or other assets to a donor-advised fund at a public charity, like ..........., you are generally eligible to take an immediate tax deduction. Then those funds can be invested for tax-free growth, and you can recommend grants to any eligible IRS-qualified public charity.
https://www.fidelitycharitable.org/guidance/philanthropy/what-is-a-donor-advised-fund.html

QCD. --- I'm reasonably certain what this three letter acronym is.. please correct me.
A qualified charitable distribution (QCD) allows individuals who are 70½ years old or older to donate up to $108,000 total to one or more charities directly from a taxable IRA instead of taking their required minimum distributions.
https://www.fidelitycharitable.org/guidance/philanthropy/qualified-charitable-distribution.html

I mention these things because I have a friend who is triggered by all these "hidden fees, taxes" ideas, even if, and especially if,  they do NOT apply to the friend.

IRMAA surcharges apply to the top 7% of Medicare enrollees per the link you posted.  I think there are a lot of posters on this thread who are, or will be, in the top 7% of income.

And again, there are five IRMAA brackets.  They're listed further down in the link you posted.  The first few are relatively narrow in size.

Yes, QCDs are qualified charitable distributions.  $108K is the estimated 2026 limit, so that Fidelity web page is a bit ahead of time.

ROF Expat

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8571 on: February 06, 2025, 07:28:47 PM »
+1
I personally don't care about the race anymore. I know that it's very likely, if not guaranteed that we've got enough. But I often have "rich people problems" that I'm not sure how to answer. Sure I can ask my insurance agent, my accountant, my lawyer but all those folks have a bias. I often just need to know what other people who are in a similar situation do. I can't ask the general forum because the answer there is often to never spend any money on anything. I've past that point.
And, we will honestly need support to spend our money. I don't think I'm the only person on this thread that wrestles with financial decisions as if I'm still supposed to be accumulating, when in fact I shouldn't be. For example, I bought a $60k car this year. I'm enjoying it, but I STILL feel guilty about it. I paid cash and have a $5M net worth. Why would I feel guilty about a car purchase?
I guess I could go over to bogleheads and ask, but I don't like them as much.
[/quote]

Exact same thing going on with my wife.  Her car has become unreliable with some odd electrical issues (I think dangerously so) and so we're replacing it with a new $50k vehicle.  She's having incredible guilt over it for someone worth $5M.  I myself just don't really have a lot of wants I'd spend a ton of money on, but a reliable car is certainly one.  And back when I was worth "only" $1M (and so not FI), I would have wanted to save as much as I could and maybe not bought new, but come on, she's gonna drive it at least 5-7 years anyway...
[/quote]

There's a lot of discussion about justifying spending in this community, some of which makes sense to me and some which doesn't.  My spouse and I recently chose to buy a relatively inexpensive new car over a used car.  It made sense for us for various reasons, but in financial terms my conclusion was that putting half a percent of our net worth into a new car just wasn't very different from having a third of a percent of our net worth in a used car.  It certainly isn't in a league with the craziness of people with zero (or negative) net worth getting loans to buy new cars that cost a good percentage of their annual income and will probably depreciate faster than they pay them off.   


shuffler

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8572 on: February 06, 2025, 07:40:29 PM »
I personally don't care about the race anymore.
Race? What Race?  Haha.
Agreed.  Racing is gauche.  Reeks of new money.  ;^)

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8573 on: February 06, 2025, 08:49:31 PM »
I personally don't care about the race anymore.
Race? What Race?  Haha.
Agreed.  Racing is gauche.  Reeks of new money.  ;^)
That’s only because you’re old money! I am almost there, so still grinding to finish. I’m like the runner with the leg cramps right now. Today there was some weird increases in stock prices for another of our holdings. One that had been semi meh for awhile. We might be there as of today, so definitely a sign the top is in. People on the internet saying they buying gold. Costco selling gold right as you walk in the door. Strange times.

Turtle

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8574 on: February 07, 2025, 12:19:17 PM »
“Racing” at a trot instead of a gallop here.  Still working and adding to stash, but not maxing out anymore.  It was always only a competition with myself at any rate, at least for me.

I’m personally planning on using QCD to stay out of the higher IRMAA brackets once RMDs kick in for me.  The first IRMAA bracket isn’t too onerous, but they get progressively worse.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8575 on: February 07, 2025, 09:59:11 PM »
@BeanCounter - a friend was driving an almost new Toyota Highlander when a larger vehicle crossed the center line and destroyed the Highlander.  Airbags deployed everywhere, even from unexpected places.  Said friend walked away completely unharmed.  Maybe it's more of a car than you thought you wanted, and I hope you never need it, but you made a good safety choice.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8576 on: February 08, 2025, 05:57:41 AM »
@BeanCounter - a friend was driving an almost new Toyota Highlander when a larger vehicle crossed the center line and destroyed the Highlander.  Airbags deployed everywhere, even from unexpected places.  Said friend walked away completely unharmed.  Maybe it's more of a car than you thought you wanted, and I hope you never need it, but you made a good safety choice.

Oh! Good to know. It’s REALLY comfortable. I read somewhere that’s also an SUV people drive 15 years or longer. If I can drive this 15 years then it’s a good value. I’m wondering when all the fancy electronics will fail though. The blue tooth in my 12 year old CRV no longer works. I think maybe the software needs to be updated but I don’t want to take it to the dealer and pay for that.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8577 on: February 08, 2025, 08:15:30 PM »
@BeanCounter - a friend was driving an almost new Toyota Highlander when a larger vehicle crossed the center line and destroyed the Highlander.  Airbags deployed everywhere, even from unexpected places.  Said friend walked away completely unharmed.  Maybe it's more of a car than you thought you wanted, and I hope you never need it, but you made a good safety choice.

Oh! Good to know. It’s REALLY comfortable. I read somewhere that’s also an SUV people drive 15 years or longer. If I can drive this 15 years then it’s a good value. I’m wondering when all the fancy electronics will fail though. The blue tooth in my 12 year old CRV no longer works. I think maybe the software needs to be updated but I don’t want to take it to the dealer and pay for that.

I know with my Jeep, a local independent shop could do software updates.  They can’t replace computer components but they could do the software stuff.  ( found this out when the Jeep needed so many it caused the check engine light to come on).

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8578 on: February 09, 2025, 04:35:31 PM »
I'm in the bowl of people avoiding IRMAA.  Ducked my first 2 years of Medicare by filing the recalculation form as the first year I retired half way through it and the second year, they accepted the form again for some reason.

Anyways, I've converted all my HYSAs to buy BRK/b in taxable (no dividends) to rid myself of the interest (income).
In taxable, I did all the tax loss harvesting I could.  I now am working to rid taxable of dividend (income) payors.  We now give some of these ETFs to my 2 kids on their birthdays and Christmas. 

I only started looking into QCDs recently so will be ready with that when I'm in the year I hit 70 1/2.  From what I read, both me and DW can each do $100k when we're both of age.  It counts towards an RMD and reduces income. 

For the moment, we donate to a local humane society where we always have gotten our cats.  No kill shelter.  They have a note on their web page with their Schwab account info to donate.  We'll start doing that.  Of course when we donate or give ETFs that have gains, the charity pays no tax.  We don't get tax deduction but that's fine.  We avoid the Long Term Cap Gains tax plus reduce dividends.


Bird In Hand

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8579 on: February 11, 2025, 09:34:20 AM »
Jan/21: As of close of the markets yesterday, we joined this race for the first time with an aggregate balance of $2.005M across all our savings/retirement/investment accounts.  TNW including home equity is somewhere a little north of $2.4M.

Jun/21: LNW was flirting with $2.2M for what seemed like months.  We finally crossed that threshold sometime in the past couple weeks and have stayed there since.  With similar market performance for the rest of the year we could be knocking on the door of $2.5M by end of year, or about $3M TNW.   100k/year @ 4% SWR.  That's nuts.

Aug/21: We crossed $2.3M today.  I don't know why it seemed like such a long time to go from 2.2 to 2.3.  It was only two months.

Nov/21: The recent market run-up brought us to just over $2.4M invested as of COB Thurs.  This last $100k took almost 3 months (cue world's smallest violin).  Closing out the year at $2.5M may be a stretch, but is certainty feasible.

Jan/22: I didn't pay attention to the markets at all for the past couple months (practice for FIRE?).  We ended the year at about $2.425M invested.  I was hoping for $2.5M, but going up $425k in 2021 isn't worth complaining about.

Jul/23: $2.52M invested.  A little discouraging that we're < 10% above where we were two years ago, and essentially all of that is due to savings over that time.  Accounting for inflation, it's more like a 0% net balance increase after savings, and maybe a -10% return considering inflation.  It's not really surprising considering how rough 2022 was.

Aug/24: $3.1M invested, TNW around $3.8M.  Moving in the right direction.

Feb/25: $3.4M invested, TNW around $4.1M.  By TNW we're Beyond!...but I'm not counting it until we have $4M invested.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8580 on: February 13, 2025, 05:06:33 PM »
So I've done some stuff. I did a couple of days of trail maintenance on the Florida Trail. Then I decided to backpack about 100 miles of the Florida Trail. After the hike I along with 6 friends did a 3 day two night canoe trip down the Suwannee River in Florida. I left the trail and River to head back to Louisiana. We buried my last living Great Aunt today. Tomorrow the wife and I are headed to Austin Texas for a long weekend. We'll be there to watch the LSU ladies basketball team play the Longhorns. What's next? Hopefully more hiking and maybe some bicycling as well. I hope you are all doing well.

ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8581 on: February 13, 2025, 06:55:00 PM »
I am going to take tomorrow off to recover from reading Bateaux's latest post.

Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing!

Captain FIRE

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8582 on: February 13, 2025, 07:44:44 PM »
We buried my last living Great Aunt today.

Sure hope she wasn't living when you buried her!


(Couldn't resist. Sorry for your loss.)

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8583 on: February 13, 2025, 10:10:55 PM »
I am going to take tomorrow off to recover from reading Bateaux's latest post.

Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing!

Retirement is a blast!

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8584 on: February 13, 2025, 10:12:42 PM »
We buried my last living Great Aunt today.

Sure hope she wasn't living when you buried her!


(Couldn't resist. Sorry for your loss.)

She would laugh as well.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8585 on: February 14, 2025, 10:33:33 AM »
So I've done some stuff. I did a couple of days of trail maintenance on the Florida Trail. Then I decided to backpack about 100 miles of the Florida Trail. After the hike I along with 6 friends did a 3 day two night canoe trip down the Suwannee River in Florida. I left the trail and River to head back to Louisiana. We buried my last living Great Aunt today. Tomorrow the wife and I are headed to Austin Texas for a long weekend. We'll be there to watch the LSU ladies basketball team play the Longhorns. What's next? Hopefully more hiking and maybe some bicycling as well. I hope you are all doing well.

I aspire to be you.   

I am going to take tomorrow off to recover from reading Bateaux's latest post.

Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing!

But I am more like this....so a long way to go.

jeroly

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8586 on: February 15, 2025, 03:42:37 AM »
Survey questions:  who here has a second home? Do you combine your use with renting it out / Airbnb-ing it when you're not using it? Anyone have a second (or third - or seventh - don't want to exclude the Romney wannabe's here!) that's in a foreign country? If so are there any wrinkles to owning a foreign property that you've run into that might not be obvious to me?

I've just returned from a month in Cape Town and am lusting after the gorgeous properties available there for 1/3 to 1/10th of the prices of the US equivalents.  I know it would simplify and probably save $$$ to just rent when I visit but...

Thanks in advance for all your thoughts!

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8587 on: February 15, 2025, 05:57:00 AM »
Survey questions:  who here has a second home? Do you combine your use with renting it out / Airbnb-ing it when you're not using it? Anyone have a second (or third - or seventh - don't want to exclude the Romney wannabe's here!) that's in a foreign country? If so are there any wrinkles to owning a foreign property that you've run into that might not be obvious to me?

I've just returned from a month in Cape Town and am lusting after the gorgeous properties available there for 1/3 to 1/10th of the prices of the US equivalents.  I know it would simplify and probably save $$$ to just rent when I visit but...

Thanks in advance for all your thoughts!
Somehow over time, not ever being interested in being a landlord or having a vacation home (as we like to travel to different places) I've ended up with a number of properties

My wife and her sister inherited their parent's house which is local to us.  Not being able to decide whether to part with it or not they just started renting it full time and have been ever since.  The rent only covered the repairs/new appliances and other costs for a few years but now has a fairly decent profit.

We have a small house about an hour away from home that sits on a riverfront, bought it for $150k cash and put another $100k into remodeling (which I did mostly myself over a couple years, doing that remodel with my own hands was a big part of it for me and what i did with a lot of my free time when downshifting to part time).  It is just now in good shape to use for the family, the college aged kids will all likely get in a lot of trouble there.  The whole point of this was how it was in a recreational area we don't know that well but very easily drivable to use frequently (even just for the day). I likely will Airbnb it some in the future, the hope would be to just make the carrying costs back from it which will not take much (small property tax and small electric bill, regular insurance and flood insurance given its location, and someone that mows the lawn in those months, but all just adds up to like $4k/year).

I bought a $500k lakefront home (worth more than my own home) a few states away just for my 80 yo dad to live in and us and the other siblings/nieces/nephews to visit and enjoy.  Dad pays the bills and most importantly is quite the active handyman, so it's actually in better shape every time I visit.  Its probably a somewhat weird setup, but is pretty awesome. I was wanting to put money in something other than stocks/bonds as I had blown past my planned stache and the markets can be wild, and of course love that I could do something that brings him so much joy.  He laughed when he was inquiring about if I could really afford it and I said I very well might need to sell the house for the money in 20-30 years (he's the first in our family history to make to 80, so said 'that'll likely be the grandkids problem then!'....)

My wife's mother was from Scandinavia and she has spent a lot of time there growing up.  She's very frugal and doesn't really think about our finances that much, so the time we were actually wealthy in her mind was during a 4 week "once in a lifetime" vacation there one summer, and I said we could certainly do it every Summer if we wanted to (I'm not going in the winter, she does with her sister sometimes).  We have fun looking at properties there (downtown old town flats we could airbnb), and it certainly seems no more complex a transaction than buying a local property and no more complex a setup than buying a flat in NYC with shared space, but I can't truly imagine owning a place that far away.  And it's a little harder for me to wrap my head around the risks of owning such a property (I know my dad's lakehouse is only going to get even more expensive over any lengthy period of time).  And they are certainly not the low priced deals you were talking about in Cape Town so definitely a different equation.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2025, 06:00:52 AM by Much Fishing to Do »

lhamo

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8588 on: February 15, 2025, 06:12:38 AM »
There was recently a discussion over at @Freedomin5 's journal about the risks of buying property (not necessarily a second home) in foreign countries.  I posted about my experience owning property in China.  It thankfully turned out well for me (we bought a condo in Beijing at the bottom of the market dip in 2009, nearly tripled our money on it by the time we sold in 2017, and that money fueled our FIRE), but it could have gone sideways in many different ways. 

For me, South Africa would not be a place I would be inclined to invest unless I had strong family or other compelling social ties there.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8589 on: February 15, 2025, 06:53:52 AM »
We inherited a cabin in Michigan and I've had numerous colleagues with second homes or properties abroad.  Honestly, it's such a vast topic I can't imagine how having a conversation with strangers over the internet would help a person decide what is best for them.  There are pros and cons, there are a lot of ways to go about it...  For us personally, we are FI enough that we don't rent out or air BNB our cabin, but I'm sure we could make good money doing it if there were ever a need.  But then it becomes more of a 'job' and the whole point was to have a fun family place (for my Dad originally, now for us kids) and the costs are reasonable since it is paid off.  I think the best advice is to not go in to buying a vacation home with the express purpose of turning a profit, there are much better investments, go in to it with your eyes open that you are spending top dollar on a singular vacation spot vs. traditional vacations.  We love the area our cabin is located and love going back regularly.  We love that it is ours and we can do whatever we want with it.  But we also love traditional vacationing, so I'd have a hard time giving one up for the other.  It's been nice to be able to have a bit of both, for us personally.

ROF Expat

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8590 on: February 15, 2025, 09:17:47 AM »
I've been tempted to buy a second home in several foreign countries, but every time I look at it seriously, it becomes clear to me that it only makes sense if I want to spend a very substantial portion of my year there every year.  Right now, at least, I'm more interested in visiting new places than just going back to one.  My spouse and I do like Cape Town a lot.  When my spouse retires, we'll visit regularly, but I don't see any advantage in owning rather than renting or staying with friends. 

Our house in the US is waterfront (I'm pretty sure it was originally built to be a "weekend cottage"), so it kind of feels like being in a vacation home all week long.  When we move back, I don't think we'll feel the need for a "getaway" second home, although we enjoy travel for its own sake. 

Freedomin5

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8591 on: February 15, 2025, 02:50:34 PM »
Survey questions:  who here has a second home? Do you combine your use with renting it out / Airbnb-ing it when you're not using it? Anyone have a second (or third - or seventh - don't want to exclude the Romney wannabe's here!) that's in a foreign country? If so are there any wrinkles to owning a foreign property that you've run into that might not be obvious to me?

I've just returned from a month in Cape Town and am lusting after the gorgeous properties available there for 1/3 to 1/10th of the prices of the US equivalents.  I know it would simplify and probably save $$$ to just rent when I visit but...

Thanks in advance for all your thoughts!

For context, I work internationally for a US company that employs Americans, Canadians, S. Africans, Australians, New Zealanders, Filipinos, Koreans, etc., and I know a lot of people in my role. I also participate in an expat FIRE club.

The S. Africans that I know are hesitant to buy property in Cape Town. They're all trying to figure out ways to invest in more stable markets. One of my S. African colleagues owns property in S. Africa, but she was gifted the land by her parents, who live in S. Africa and she pays a property manager to manage it for her. She says it's a very risky venture, and the land value does not appreciate. Because the government and banking systems are unstable, you could lose everything in the blink of an eye.

My family has owned multiple properties over the years, some of them in foreign countries, and one of them in a developing country. It's very risky.

We currently do not rent out our second home/cottage. We tried it one year through a property management company and did not have a good experience. We do let friends use it and charge a very reduced rate that only covers basic operating expenses.

We just purchased a property in a developing country, for 1/5 of what a similar property would cost in Canada. Yeah, with that one, we're prepared for it not to go up in value (terrible investment), to be difficult to rent (sister is going to live in it herself), for the quality of construction (both materials and labor) to be low, and for us to lose the investment at any time if there's a coup or war or something.  The only reason we bought is because my sister will be living there for most of the year. There's a reason the property is so cheap by international standards. I suspect Cape Town maybe similar. Do your due diligence and make sure you have a deep understanding of why the property in Africa is so cheap.

We also did not rent out our investment property in China when we owned it (it's sold now), because you have to understand the renter mentality in the country in which you own the property. In the US/Canada, renters tend to consider a rental apartment as their home, so they keep it nice. In China, renters consider a rental apartment as someone else's house, so they don't feel the need to keep it nice, because they're paying rent to the landlord, and the point of rent is so the landlord has money to fix or replace stuff. It's  just a different mentality. So we just kept it empty and then sold it. BTW, getting your money out of certain countries is also extremely difficult.

Certain countries also have rules about foreigners owning property. Make sure you understand those rules. E.g., in Cambodia and certain other countries, foreigners cannot own land, which means they cannot own any units that are on the ground level.

And make sure you work with someone you trust in the country who understands the system. For example, our recent purchase in Cambodia, the property developer asked us to transfer the down payment directly to their personal bank account. That's not how things are done in Canada, but we have friends who have lived in Cambodia for decades and who have purchased property from that developer before, and they said that's how things are done, so that's what we did. There may also be different procedures regarding titling, and some people will see foreigners as patsies who are easy to take advantage of because you don't know how things are typically done. Another reason why you must work with someone in the country whom you know and trust (like a long-time personal family friend who has demonstrated business acumen over the decades and who is successfully established in that country) to help you navigate the process.

Oh, and don't even consider getting a mortgage. I would never say it's impossible, but it's extremely difficult. Your home country's bank doesn't want to lend money for a property that they have no control over and can't take in the event of default. The foreign country's bank doesn't want to lend to foreigners with no credit history or employment history in their country. Your property is high risk to your home country's bank, and you are high risk to the foreign bank. So, we've basically paid cash for any international properties we have owned.

That being said, I do have an American colleague who bought a condo in Thailand and rents it out. He earns enough to live off the rental income. Of course, he is also currently working in China, and living expenses are very very very low.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2025, 03:01:25 PM by Freedomin5 »

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8592 on: February 15, 2025, 06:51:02 PM »
Piling on to holler, No! Don't do it!

Ozlady

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8593 on: Today at 05:01:57 AM »
I have always thought about having a 2nd vacation property abroad to spend out the 3 months of winter there...

What i can't get my head around is what the amount as a % of my net worth should it be?

Hoping for some answers from anyone who has done it...

(I mean if it is 1% of your net worth.........)

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #8594 on: Today at 05:02:27 AM »
My parents and I owned a Condo from 2002-2016 on the redneck Riveria (aka Destin, FL).  In part because my sister lives near there and so we could go to the same spot.  But from a financial standpoint we’d have been better off renting when visiting and for me putting my half of the money into VTSAX instead of the downpayment and ongoing mortgage payment that I always had to pay.  We always worked on something when there and we never made enough money to pay for all expenses from STR.