Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!

[ixtap]

@Much Fishing to Do , gratitude for your options is really important for your own mental health while going through something like this. O hope y'all can at least achieve some kind of stability soon.

[couponvan]

@Much Fishing to Do we had a similar situation with our middle son. Very scary, and a frank conversation with them about finances and life overall was very beneficial to them. It’s not important that they “appear” successful like the others. It’s important that they learn to be good human beings. $ helps make that learning more meaningful.

This week I have dealt with - moldy basement, septic pumping, keys being redone (since “someone” visited our home and unplugged the “noisy” dehumidifier and forgot to plug it back in), a mom with progressing memory issues-dog food, not showering, not knowing left or right, constant forgetting of what we just talked about), an HOA issue, a branch falling on the car during a storm and cracking the windshield, and some lazy insolent coworkers. It’s been a WEEK. That being said, I am grateful I haven’t had a heart attack while delivering a baby, I have $ to cover the unexpected expenses, and I am somewhat resourceful. DS 22 has overcome his 18 year old issues and is adulting in a safe manner. Will he graduate college? Not sure. Will he learn new skills and develop new interests? Most definitely.

[Bateaux]

This past week I've been heartbroken over an 18 year old daughter who is seriously struggling with her mental health.  It's quite literally the first time in years I readily admit to being scared to death.  I am reminded of both how great it is that I have financially succeeded and I and spouse can take any and all time to be there with her needed, and provide any healthcare needs helpful, and also how little wealth matters when health and happiness of yourself and loved ones are in jeopardy.

I know your despair. Our oldest was 14 when diagnosed with cancer. After a long period of treatment and suffering he's still with us. There were some tough days. Hoping your family makes it through this and happiness for you all.

[Taran Wanderer]

Our oldest came home from the first winter sport info meeting and declared that she was done with that sport and wanted to focus on her fall sport, including club play too much of a distance away. It was weird. A second interest meeting went no better. We contacted some other parents, compared notes regarding poor coach behavior, and ended up submitting a complaint. First day of tryouts canceled, coach not currently at school, investigation ongoing, pinged a lawyer friend for advice. Seriously, I don’t know how a person could pursue this without a degree of financial independence and work flexibility. I understand the job the school administrators have to do, and I don’t envy them. But it’s taking decades of business and HR experience to collaborate with and guide the other parents, write the complaint, and submit it and respond to initial inquiry and pushback. We are so thankful that we can just call an attorney and ask questions. No charges yet, but if there are, it’s not a big problem. But to be able to call and say, “Hey, it’s Taran Wanderer, I need some help, is your door closed?” And then be able to describe the situation quickly and accurately to a person who already knows me and trusts me… that’s priceless. It’s darn good to have earned our way into this club.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Sorry for this question to be a bit out of left field considering the somber conversations going on here lately, but does anyone here have any experience with a highly compensated, non-qualified deferred compensation plan?  I have to make an election this year and I'm leaning heavily toward declining the offer.  My reasoning boils down to - this is more restrictive than the 401k that I max out (for example, you cannot change the deferral election outside the enrollment period except for limited cases), I expect income taxes to remain low during Trump's first year in office so there's an increasingly likely chance I could be paying higher income taxes in retirement - better to continue to distribute my tax burden risk between 2025 and future post-TCJA years, and options for distribution are either one lump sum (yikes) or 2-5 annual installments. 

I really don't see the benefit of this supplemental tax deferral plan, unless you're both really behind on retirement savings and expect tax in retirement to be lower than your marginal rate now.  It's tempting on the surface to have a low tax bill for 2025, but it could blow up in my face when forced to take it all back out rather quickly...  but on the flip side, it does give me another way to bridge some of the income gap between 55 and 59.5...  Maybe I'll take a look at how much of 2024 was taxed at 32% and above...

[dividendman]

Sorry for this question to be a bit out of left field considering the somber conversations going on here lately, but does anyone here have any experience with a highly compensated, non-qualified deferred compensation plan?  I have to make an election this year and I'm leaning heavily toward declining the offer.  My reasoning boils down to - this is more restrictive than the 401k that I max out (for example, you cannot change the deferral election outside the enrollment period except for limited cases), I expect income taxes to remain low during Trump's first year in office so there's an increasingly likely chance I could be paying higher income taxes in retirement - better to continue to distribute my tax burden risk between 2025 and future post-TCJA years, and options for distribution are either one lump sum (yikes) or 2-5 annual installments. 

I really don't see the benefit of this supplemental tax deferral plan, unless you're both really behind on retirement savings and expect tax in retirement to be lower than your marginal rate now.  It's tempting on the surface to have a low tax bill for 2025, but it could blow up in my face when forced to take it all back out rather quickly...  but on the flip side, it does give me another way to bridge some of the income gap between 55 and 59.5...  Maybe I'll take a look at how much of 2024 was taxed at 32% and above...

I had a non-qualified deferred compensation plan for highly compensated employees when I worked at one of the MegaCorps.

I used it. It's very beneficial if you plan to take a sabbatical or time off of work for a year or more. All the plans are different so it really depends. Some plans let you pay out small sums over years, some force you to take a lump sum if you're not in the plan long enough.

Basically I think, if you don't need the money, it's better to defer the compensation since the investments also grow tax-free. You can always defer a certain amount, maybe enough so even if you take a lump sum it's not a crazy big amount, and then stop deferring the compensation next year or when you think you have too much in the plan.

Note there are risks, if the company defaults, the investments aren't secure and are behind pretty much all other folks in any bankruptcy proceeding.

[tooqk4u22]

Sorry for this question to be a bit out of left field considering the somber conversations going on here lately, but does anyone here have any experience with a highly compensated, non-qualified deferred compensation plan?  I have to make an election this year and I'm leaning heavily toward declining the offer.  My reasoning boils down to - this is more restrictive than the 401k that I max out (for example, you cannot change the deferral election outside the enrollment period except for limited cases), I expect income taxes to remain low during Trump's first year in office so there's an increasingly likely chance I could be paying higher income taxes in retirement - better to continue to distribute my tax burden risk between 2025 and future post-TCJA years, and options for distribution are either one lump sum (yikes) or 2-5 annual installments. 

I really don't see the benefit of this supplemental tax deferral plan, unless you're both really behind on retirement savings and expect tax in retirement to be lower than your marginal rate now.  It's tempting on the surface to have a low tax bill for 2025, but it could blow up in my face when forced to take it all back out rather quickly...  but on the flip side, it does give me another way to bridge some of the income gap between 55 and 59.5...  Maybe I'll take a look at how much of 2024 was taxed at 32% and above...

Depends on the plan you have but if you are in a high tax bracket and expect to be in a low one in the future they can be beneficial.  It should also be on top of your 401k.  The contribution amount for the year is set as are the distributions, which start after separation and options are usually lump sum or spread over 5, 10 or 15 year annual payments. Each payroll year that you are eligible to participate in the plan you do a different amount or distribution strategy.  Lump sum payouts tend not to be as beneficial for spreading out tax pain, but spread over the time of 5-15 years with continued growth it can be very beneficial.  Especially as far as RE plans go.   

A huge caveat is that the plans are not protected (i.e. you don't own it like a 401k), if your company fails/bankrupt then what is owed to you becomes an unsecured liability of the company along with all unsecured liabilities and behind any liabilities that are secured.  So if you are with a startup or struggling company that is over indebted then IMO wouldn't be worth it.   

[jeroly]

Sorry for this question to be a bit out of left field considering the somber conversations going on here lately, but does anyone here have any experience with a highly compensated, non-qualified deferred compensation plan?  I have to make an election this year and I'm leaning heavily toward declining the offer.  My reasoning boils down to - this is more restrictive than the 401k that I max out (for example, you cannot change the deferral election outside the enrollment period except for limited cases), I expect income taxes to remain low during Trump's first year in office so there's an increasingly likely chance I could be paying higher income taxes in retirement - better to continue to distribute my tax burden risk between 2025 and future post-TCJA years, and options for distribution are either one lump sum (yikes) or 2-5 annual installments. 

I really don't see the benefit of this supplemental tax deferral plan, unless you're both really behind on retirement savings and expect tax in retirement to be lower than your marginal rate now.  It's tempting on the surface to have a low tax bill for 2025, but it could blow up in my face when forced to take it all back out rather quickly...  but on the flip side, it does give me another way to bridge some of the income gap between 55 and 59.5...  Maybe I'll take a look at how much of 2024 was taxed at 32% and above...

If you are on the ‘highly’ side of ‘highly compensated’ there could be significant tax savings by smoothing out the income stream - e.g. instead of five annual incomes of $1 million you spread it out to 20 of $250k; even if rates go up you’d be in a significantly lower bracket.

My general take on / experience with these is: if your company is still around to pay out the promised returns, they’re generally set up to be a good deal if you look at it on its own as an investment, over and above the tax benefits.  For example I’m dealing with a plan that pays 2% above prime. But… if you have any concerns as to whether your employer will be a going concern in 10-20 years, probably skip it. (Remember it’s unsecured debt from your employer to you)

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Good responses, thanks.  I think I'll dip my toe in for next year, since we do have a lot of compensation that just goes to after tax investments and I'm already feeling pretty good there.  I work for a solid company, so the worry would be more on my end than theirs.  Apparently my 401k ERISA Trust is protected from my creditors if I declare bankruptcy, but this 'Rabbi Trust' isn't.  It's not the slam dunk that my 401k, with 6% match is, but I'll defer some taxes and have one more lever to manage tax burden during those first 5 years of ER.

[2sk22]

Sorry for this question to be a bit out of left field considering the somber conversations going on here lately, but does anyone here have any experience with a highly compensated, non-qualified deferred compensation plan?  I have to make an election this year and I'm leaning heavily toward declining the offer.  My reasoning boils down to - this is more restrictive than the 401k that I max out (for example, you cannot change the deferral election outside the enrollment period except for limited cases), I expect income taxes to remain low during Trump's first year in office so there's an increasingly likely chance I could be paying higher income taxes in retirement - better to continue to distribute my tax burden risk between 2025 and future post-TCJA years, and options for distribution are either one lump sum (yikes) or 2-5 annual installments. 

I really don't see the benefit of this supplemental tax deferral plan, unless you're both really behind on retirement savings and expect tax in retirement to be lower than your marginal rate now.  It's tempting on the surface to have a low tax bill for 2025, but it could blow up in my face when forced to take it all back out rather quickly...  but on the flip side, it does give me another way to bridge some of the income gap between 55 and 59.5...  Maybe I'll take a look at how much of 2024 was taxed at 32% and above...

If you are on the ‘highly’ side of ‘highly compensated’ there could be significant tax savings by smoothing out the income stream - e.g. instead of five annual incomes of $1 million you spread it out to 20 of $250k; even if rates go up you’d be in a significantly lower bracket.

My general take on / experience with these is: if your company is still around to pay out the promised returns, they’re generally set up to be a good deal if you look at it on its own as an investment, over and above the tax benefits.  For example I’m dealing with a plan that pays 2% above prime. But… if you have any concerns as to whether your employer will be a going concern in 10-20 years, probably skip it. (Remember it’s unsecured debt from your employer to you)

This is the key part - if the company goes bankrupt, and you have deferred compensation, then you're just one more creditor. I am dead set against deferred compensation.

[Fomerly known as something]

Out of curiosity this morning I found an annuity calculator and plugged in the numbers for my pension.  So including it in my NW takes me to the “beyond category”.  In theory it’s worth $1,7 million (or at least that’s what I would need in order to buy it) so in theory my NW is $4,638,746 in reality I’m at $2.9 million.  Since US government pensions don’t actually have a value other than the employee contribution, it’s not reality but it was interesting to see.

[Arbitrage]

One interesting observation I made this morning as I was updating a few numbers on the old spreadsheet - we bought a used car, with cash, this month.  Even after subtracting that off, we're still up something like $50k on the month. 

Given that we're heavily invested in international stocks, and have a healthy portion of fixed income (both of which I believe hugely underperformed US stocks in the wake of the election), I thought it notable.  Made me feel a bit wealthier than I usually do. 

[farmecologist]

Out of curiosity this morning I found an annuity calculator and plugged in the numbers for my pension.  So including it in my NW takes me to the “beyond category”.  In theory it’s worth $1,7 million (or at least that’s what I would need in order to buy it) so in theory my NW is $4,638,746 in reality I’m at $2.9 million.  Since US government pensions don’t actually have a value other than the employee contribution, it’s not reality but it was interesting to see.

Similar situation.  My spouse has a pension and it has always been difficult to value.  Currently, we are using the lump sum payout value, since that is what we will likely do ( they have a chronic health condition (T1D) that generally reduces lifespan...but not always, especially with the awesome tech available these days ).

[oldtoyota]

Yeah, agree, suddenly things started snowballing. A million here, a million there, suddenly we have real money. Definitely crazy, but it does take some habits and commitment.

Its stopping the commitment is the problem i face! After a lifetime of living cheap its almost impossible to turn off some of those habits.. I still can't bring myself to fork over a few thousand of an international business class ticket.

Heck, I can’t even bring myself to pay more to avoid a 20-hour layover, nor to pay $250 for a hotel room for those 20 hours - I’ll just sleep in the airport instead!

My hotel budget varies greatly depending on whether I’m by myself or with my sweetie. I’m happy to stay in a hostel (provided it’s clean) but my sweetie likes her creature comforts at least to the minimum of an en suite bathroom and a private room!

Generally, I try to keep travel expenses under $1,500/week (was $1k/wk pre-pandemic). That’s with 21 weeks of travel in the year, though - when I slow down I’ll probably feel ok with spending more per week.

I will pay for a hotel to sleep off my jet lag versus business tickets. I’m with your sweetie. No more hostels for me. Well, if it was clean I might be ok with it. We are around $3K goal for a week, so if your $1,500 is just for you, I think our budgets are similar. We like free hotels on points, though. We try to have only 1-2 night paid hotels per week.

What credit card do you use for points on hotels? We use a card that has cashback, but hotel points sound more appealing.

[Dicey]

Yeah, agree, suddenly things started snowballing. A million here, a million there, suddenly we have real money. Definitely crazy, but it does take some habits and commitment.

Its stopping the commitment is the problem i face! After a lifetime of living cheap its almost impossible to turn off some of those habits.. I still can't bring myself to fork over a few thousand of an international business class ticket.

Heck, I can’t even bring myself to pay more to avoid a 20-hour layover, nor to pay $250 for a hotel room for those 20 hours - I’ll just sleep in the airport instead!

My hotel budget varies greatly depending on whether I’m by myself or with my sweetie. I’m happy to stay in a hostel (provided it’s clean) but my sweetie likes her creature comforts at least to the minimum of an en suite bathroom and a private room!

Generally, I try to keep travel expenses under $1,500/week (was $1k/wk pre-pandemic). That’s with 21 weeks of travel in the year, though - when I slow down I’ll probably feel ok with spending more per week.

I will pay for a hotel to sleep off my jet lag versus business tickets. I’m with your sweetie. No more hostels for me. Well, if it was clean I might be ok with it. We are around $3K goal for a week, so if your $1,500 is just for you, I think our budgets are similar. We like free hotels on points, though. We try to have only 1-2 night paid hotels per week.

What credit card do you use for points on hotels? We use a card that has cashback, but hotel points sound more appealing.

Not coup, but chiming in anyway. I have the IHG Rewards card. It's super easy to use. I got it as a result of staying at the Intercontinental in Toronto for a week. Upgrading to their Ambassador level was only $100. It included perks such as Concierge Floor rooms and lounge access, including free breakfast, which meant it paid for itself the first trip. It also let me accumulate points at a higher rate. Shortly thereafter, I got the IHG Rewards card. IHG = International Hotels Group, including Intercontinental, Holiday Inns, Candlewick Suites, and a bunch of other brands. Between work travel (LOL, I retired 12 years ago) and ongoing purchases, I still have >500k points. They're super easy to use and have bailed me out too many times to count. The Rewards Card also gives you one free night/year. (That $100 meant that I was Ambassador, now Platinum, in perpetuity. I have never had to pay for that status again. I think it's automatic with the CC.)

I don't have it any longer, but Marriott was also super easy to accrue and spend points way back when.

[Fomerly known as something]

Most travel cards now have some sort of fee.  They are a good deal if what you receive from them offsets the fee.  All the cards give more points for the same spend at the hotel or on the airline than if you used a cash back card.

I have the lowest Hilton Amex (no fee).  I use it for a small monthly reoccurring purchase and at Hiltons only after an initial bonus spend.  I got 100,000 as a sign up bonus which ended up “paying” for 2 nights in Hilo, Hawaii.  I have a $95 per year Marriott Chase card that gives me a free night up to 35,000 point yearly.  Initial bonus with spend was 5 free nights.  I use it only to pay for Marriott hotels.  I have a Delta Reseserve.  High fee and I’m likely downgrading after January one before the next fee hits.  Delta is the best carrier serving my parents hometown and when I fly to Europe I tend to fly their skyteam partners KLM, AF or Virgin on Delta code shares so I’ve had. Card with them since 2012.  I’m going to downgrade unless they give me a Fat retention offer because I’m not getting the value from the card that I use to.

My current primary card is the Venture X.  It’s basically a 2% back card at the minimum but I “like” designating that 2% to offset travel.  I could get more likely by transferring through their points portal but I’m lazy about it.  I get 10,000 points a year ($100) and a $300 credit for booking a hotel through their portal plus other perks that more than pay for the $399 fee.

[Fomerly known as something]

Ugg.  Just got word my condo is likely to get a $60k special assessment.  Of course in the Year I FIRE.  That means I’ll be putting off my own renovations for a few years since they are cosmetic.  Sigh.  Hopefully there is some pay over a few years thing that is reasonable so I can spread out the annoyance.  I’m not upset really because I can see what need to be done, it’s just general maintence on a place that’s been around for 30 years.

[SwordGuy]

Ugg.  Just got word my condo is likely to get a $60k special assessment.  Of course in the Year I FIRE.  That means I’ll be putting off my own renovations for a few years since they are cosmetic.  Sigh.  Hopefully there is some pay over a few years thing that is reasonable so I can spread out the annoyance.  I’m not upset really because I can see what need to be done, it’s just general maintence on a place that’s been around for 30 years.

That's still a whole lot of maintenance!    I presume everyone pays the same (or thereabouts)?   What for? 

(Enquiring minds want to know!)   (But don't need to know...)

[MoneyTree]

Mid 2019 - First passed $1M
March 2020 - dropped to $840K (covid)
April 2020 - reclaimed $1M
June 2020 - passed $1.1M
August 2020 - passed $1.2M
January 2021 - passed $1.3M
April 2021 - passed $1.4M
August 2021 - passed $1.5M
November 2021 - passed $1.6M
June 2023 - passed $1.7M
December 2023 - passed $1.8M
January 2024 - passed $1.9M
March 2024 - passed $2M
June 2024 - passed $2.1M
July 2024 - passed $2.2M
October 2024 - passed $2.3M
November 2024 - passed $2.4M

that didn't take long to reach another $100K milestone. I think i'm starting to understand better why folks in this thread don't do these updates much. 100K can come and go in a matter of weeks. I might switch to $500K milestone updates. I can't believe I'm even saying that...

[Fomerly known as something]

Ugg.  Just got word my condo is likely to get a $60k special assessment.  Of course in the Year I FIRE.  That means I’ll be putting off my own renovations for a few years since they are cosmetic.  Sigh.  Hopefully there is some pay over a few years thing that is reasonable so I can spread out the annoyance.  I’m not upset really because I can see what need to be done, it’s just general maintence on a place that’s been around for 30 years.

That's still a whole lot of maintenance!    I presume everyone pays the same (or thereabouts)?   What for? 

(Enquiring minds want to know!)   (But don't need to know...)

Roof, balconies and the big one our parking structure.

[Fomerly known as something]

Ugg.  Just got word my condo is likely to get a $60k special assessment.  Of course in the Year I FIRE.  That means I’ll be putting off my own renovations for a few years since they are cosmetic.  Sigh.  Hopefully there is some pay over a few years thing that is reasonable so I can spread out the annoyance.  I’m not upset really because I can see what need to be done, it’s just general maintence on a place that’s been around for 30 years.

That's still a whole lot of maintenance!    I presume everyone pays the same (or thereabouts)?   What for? 

(Enquiring minds want to know!)   (But don't need to know...)

Roof, balconies, retaining wall and the big one our parking structure.

[Taran Wanderer]

Ugg.  Just got word my condo is likely to get a $60k special assessment.  Of course in the Year I FIRE.  That means I’ll be putting off my own renovations for a few years since they are cosmetic.  Sigh.  Hopefully there is some pay over a few years thing that is reasonable so I can spread out the annoyance.  I’m not upset really because I can see what need to be done, it’s just general maintence on a place that’s been around for 30 years.

That's still a whole lot of maintenance!    I presume everyone pays the same (or thereabouts)?   What for? 

(Enquiring minds want to know!)   (But don't need to know...)

Roof, balconies, retaining wall and the big one our parking structure.

$60,000 seems like a lot of money for an assessment.  The good news is that those are all important things with decades-long useful lives, so this may increase the value of all the condo units, or least sustain the value by keeping potential buyers from walking away when seeing potential liabilities.

[Fomerly known as something]

Ugg.  Just got word my condo is likely to get a $60k special assessment.  Of course in the Year I FIRE.  That means I’ll be putting off my own renovations for a few years since they are cosmetic.  Sigh.  Hopefully there is some pay over a few years thing that is reasonable so I can spread out the annoyance.  I’m not upset really because I can see what need to be done, it’s just general maintence on a place that’s been around for 30 years.

That's still a whole lot of maintenance!    I presume everyone pays the same (or thereabouts)?   What for? 

(Enquiring minds want to know!)   (But don't need to know...)

Roof, balconies, retaining wall and the big one our parking structure.

$60,000 seems like a lot of money for an assessment.  The good news is that those are all important things with decades-long useful lives, so this may increase the value of all the condo units, or least sustain the value by keeping potential buyers from walking away when seeing potential liabilities.

It’s CA so, labor.  As I mentioned a good chunk is the parking structure which is multi story and needs to meet earthquake code and the like.  I won’t say $60k is a huge surprise.  If the parking is like them fixing my balcony last year which was basically a complete rebuild it’s more complex than what if sounds.

[Taran Wanderer]

Yeah, construction costs are crazy right now. If you think about it, a lot of the efficiency benefits that we’ve seen from automation in other areas of the economy are more difficult to achieve in some parts of construction.  And repairs/remodels/rebuilds can be even less efficient because of the high level of skill to build custom solutions. 

[BeanCounter]

It’s not the $60k price tag that would bother me, as it sounds like that is to be expected. I would be upset that the condo association hadn’t been building a fund over decades to cover these repairs. It doesn’t sound like anything that would just sneak up on you. I feel bad for anyone who just recently purchased their condo there.

[Fomerly known as something]

They had been but not to this extent.  There also has been a bit of a turn over in owners recently and we are more owner occupied than previous years.  I think it’s more of a oh this is more expensive than we thought thing than a lack of planning thing.

ETA: And I just got the reserve study so I’m not 100% sure if it’s going to be a big bill next year vs we are going to up things going forward or a combination of both.

[Fomerly known as something]

They had been but not to this extent.  There also has been a bit of a turn over in owners recently and we are more owner occupied than previous years.  I think it’s more of a oh this is more expensive than we thought thing than a lack of planning thing.  Or a new attitude of not putting things off.

ETA: And I just got the reserve study so I’m not 100% sure if it’s going to be a big bill next year vs we are going to up things going forward or a combination of both.

[TheAnonOne]

Old data:

Spoiler: show

2015 DEC	:	252k	<- Crossed 250k
-	-
2016 JAN	:	260k	(+8k)
2016 FEB	:	281k	(+21k)
2016 MAR	:	285k	(+4k)
2016 APR	:	298k	(+13k)
2016 MAY	:	305k	(+7k)
2016 JUN	:	307k	(+2k)
2016 JUL	:	320k	(+13k)
2016 AUG	:	326k	(+6k)
2016 SEP	:	336k	(+10k)
2016 OCT	:	337k	(+1k)
2016 NOV	:	361k	(+24k)
2016 DEC	:	368k	(+7k)
-	-
2017 JAN	:	382k	(+14k)
2017 FEB	:	403k	(+21k)
2017 MAR	:	416k	(+13k)
2017 APR	:	427k	(+11k)
2017 MAY	:	436k	(+9k)
2017 JUN	:	449k	(+13k)
2017 JUL	:	464k	(+15k)
2017 AUG	:	478k	(+14k)
2017 SEPT	:	494k	(+16k)
2017 OCT	:	510k	(+16k) <- Crossed 500k
2017 NOV	:	523k	(+13k)
2017 DEC	:	534k	(+11k)
-	-
2018 JAN	:	558k	(+24k)
2018 FEB	:	569k	(+11k)
2018 MAR	:	560k	(-9k)
2018 APR	:	574k	(+14k/+5k)
2018 MAY	:	575k	(+1k)
2018 JUNE	:	575k	(+0k)
2018 JULY	:	599k	(+24k)
2018 AUG	:	620k	(+21k)
2018 SEPT	:	625k	(+5k)
2018 OCT	:	597k	(-28k)
2018 NOV	:	606k	(+9k/-19k)
2018 DEC	:	580k	(-26k/-45k)
-	-
2019 JAN	:	628k	(+48k/+3k)
2019 FEB	:	666k	(+38k)
2019 MAR	:	677k	(+11k)
2019 APR	:	706k	(+29k)
2019 MAY	:	670k	(-36k)
2019 JUNE	:	709k	(+39k/+3k)
2019 JULY	:	712k	(+3k)
2019 AUG	:	720k	(+8k)
2019 SEPT	:	725k	(+5k)
2019 OCT	:	753k	(+28k)  <- Crossed 750k
2019 NOV	:	777k	(+24k)
2019 DEC	:	798k	(+21k)
-	-
2020 JAN	:	809k	(+11k)
2020 FEB	:	780k	(-29k)
2020 MAR	:	700k	(-80k/-109k)
2020 APR	:	762k	(+62k/-47k)
2020 MAY	:	818k	(+56k/+8k)
2020 JUNE	:	840k	(+22k)
2020 JULY	:	884k	(+44k)
2020 AUG	:	1.002mm	(+118k)
2020 SEP	:	979k	(-23k/-23k)
2020 OCT	:	971k	(-8k/-31k)
2020 NOV	:	1.058mm	(+87k)
2020 DEC	:	1.100mm	(+42k)
-	-
2021 JAN	:	1.100mm	(+0k)
2021 FEB	:	1.140mm	(+40k)
2021 MAR	:	1.165mm	(+25k)
2021 APR	:	1.202mm	(+37k)
2021 MAY	:	1.209mm	(+7k)
2021 JUNE	:	1.243mm	(+34k)
2021 JULY	:	1.266mm	(+23k)
2021 AUG	:	1.307mm	(+41k)
2021 SEPT	:	1.281mm	(-26k/-26k)[/b]
2021 OCT	:	1.340mm	(+59k)
2021 NOV	:	1.330mm	(-10k/-10k)[/b]
2021 DEC	:	1.374mm	(+44k)

2015 DEC	:	252k
2016 DEC	:	368k
2017 DEC	:	534k
2018 DEC	:	580k
2019 DEC	:	798k
2020 DEC	:	1.100mm	(+302k)
2021 DEC	:	1.374mm	(+274k)
2022 DEC	:	1.318mm	(-56k)
2023 DEC	:	1.615mm	(+297k)
-		-	-
2024 JUL	:	1.810mm	(+195k)
2024 NOV	:	2.000mm	(+385k)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



...AND DONE!

$2,002,206 Net Worth today.

We crossed 1mm back in late 2020, so it took approximately 4 years to make the 2nd million. I've always tracked NW specifically here, but the raw stache is $1,550,000(rounded) currently.
I do feel like I cheated a little bit, because this month we adjusted our home's value up a bit. (Though, still $20k under what Zillow rates it at, but I digress) ...or you could say I hit the goal a while ago and it's just finally showing up.

FIRE is still elusive, while the stache can generate approximately $5k/mo now, our spending is right around that amount, excluding the mortgage. My tenative goals are still closer to 2mm in the stache directly and either paying off the mortgage OR saving whatever equivilent is required to sustain it beyond that. That goal puts us a few years out, it might make us closer to FAT FIRE than anything, and is highly market dependent.

I may end up just posting in both this race and the 2->3m race going forward, not 100% sure yet.

Just a quick introductory post coming from the 1->2mm race. I mostly track NW for simplicity.

Feels good to graduate! Looking forward to seeing how the elites rule!

My core goals are to push the stache over 2mm next and figure out what to do about the housing costs. These are my last road blocks from *RE*, I can probably argue that having a NW of 2mm and 1.5mm+ in the bank probably qualifies me as *FI* or damn close.

These goals might take a few more years, but at 32/34 I feel like we have the time!

[Simpli-Fi]

Welcome and congrats, you’ve won!  Some serious growth over the last nine years.

Your post complements the first post in this thread

I'm counting investable assets.  Not house, not rental property, not cars, not silver coins.  Too easy to cheat with stuff that needs to be valued, in my humble opinion.

I do feel like I cheated a little bit, because this month we adjusted our home's value up a bit.

You won’t find many tables in this race…so we don’t really care about the number, it’s more about “holy shit” I can’t believe my portfolio is up half a million dollars YTD again (without investing).

[Taran Wanderer]

Yep, holy shit, I just checked and I can’t believe my portfolio is up half a million dollars YTD again (not counting investing).

[TheAnonOne]

Welcome and congrats, you’ve won!  Some serious growth over the last nine years.

Your post complements the first post in this thread

I'm counting investable assets.  Not house, not rental property, not cars, not silver coins.  Too easy to cheat with stuff that needs to be valued, in my humble opinion.

I do feel like I cheated a little bit, because this month we adjusted our home's value up a bit.

You won’t find many tables in this race…so we don’t really care about the number, it’s more about “holy shit” I can’t believe my portfolio is up half a million dollars YTD again (without investing).

Thank you for the kind words!

I don't 100% feel like I won yet, even if the math is inevitably on my side now, do you ever truly feel done? :)

I could switch to solely tracking invested worth, but it would be a break from almost a decade of posts on this forum!

[Turtle]

Yep, holy shit, I just checked and I can’t believe my portfolio is up half a million dollars YTD again (not counting investing).

I’m a new LMW joiner as of earlier this year, and I can’t believe how close I am to saying that myself!

(House and cash values of pensions pushed TNW into the double double comma range last year, but I find the liquid numbers easier to track “officially” so that’s all I ever used for the previous Race to ~~ threads.)

[Exflyboy]

@Turtle Its funny, when I first got into the "NW game" I used to count everything, house, car, net present value of defined benefit pensions. As time went on and liquid NW increased things started to get ignored.. Now I don't count anything except investments and cash.

Now I start to question if counting my pretax investments (about half of my total liquid) is really legit.. I mean, to realise that money means paying a lot of tax.. Including 9% income tax in Oregon.. So really 34% of it will get given to the Government.

This might be the ultimate 1st world problem though..:)

[Turtle]

@Turtle Its funny, when I first got into the "NW game" I used to count everything, house, car, net present value of defined benefit pensions. As time went on and liquid NW increased things started to get ignored.. Now I don't count anything except investments and cash.

Now I start to question if counting my pretax investments (about half of my total liquid) is really legit.. I mean, to realise that money means paying a lot of tax.. Including 9% income tax in Oregon.. So really 34% of it will get given to the Government.

This might be the ultimate 1st world problem though..:)

As someone whose LNW is over 2/3rds pretax, I totally hear you on that one.  :)

[TheAnonOne]

@Turtle Its funny, when I first got into the "NW game" I used to count everything, house, car, net present value of defined benefit pensions. As time went on and liquid NW increased things started to get ignored.. Now I don't count anything except investments and cash.

Now I start to question if counting my pretax investments (about half of my total liquid) is really legit.. I mean, to realise that money means paying a lot of tax.. Including 9% income tax in Oregon.. So really 34% of it will get given to the Government.

This might be the ultimate 1st world problem though..:)

Depends on your income, someone who lives off the stache and say.. only needs 60k effectively has a 60k income for that year. A couple with that income level won't get close to 30%+

[Bateaux]

@Turtle Its funny, when I first got into the "NW game" I used to count everything, house, car, net present value of defined benefit pensions. As time went on and liquid NW increased things started to get ignored.. Now I don't count anything except investments and cash.

Now I start to question if counting my pretax investments (about half of my total liquid) is really legit.. I mean, to realise that money means paying a lot of tax.. Including 9% income tax in Oregon.. So really 34% of it will get given to the Government.

This might be the ultimate 1st world problem though..:)

Looking back to 2017, I'm pretty sure I was cheating my way into this thread. I tossed in pension cash value for sure and rental house value. Now 7 years later I don't count any of that crap. Took the pension instead of cash value for retirement. The liquid number is almost beyond territory now. We pulled out 60K this year, less than 2 percent and there is the monthly pension check. Maybe we'll pull 4 percent in 2025 just to see what that kind of spending is like.

[bigote2032]

Old data:

Spoiler: show

2015 DEC	:	252k	<- Crossed 250k
-	-
2016 JAN	:	260k	(+8k)
2016 FEB	:	281k	(+21k)
2016 MAR	:	285k	(+4k)
2016 APR	:	298k	(+13k)
2016 MAY	:	305k	(+7k)
2016 JUN	:	307k	(+2k)
2016 JUL	:	320k	(+13k)
2016 AUG	:	326k	(+6k)
2016 SEP	:	336k	(+10k)
2016 OCT	:	337k	(+1k)
2016 NOV	:	361k	(+24k)
2016 DEC	:	368k	(+7k)
-	-
2017 JAN	:	382k	(+14k)
2017 FEB	:	403k	(+21k)
2017 MAR	:	416k	(+13k)
2017 APR	:	427k	(+11k)
2017 MAY	:	436k	(+9k)
2017 JUN	:	449k	(+13k)
2017 JUL	:	464k	(+15k)
2017 AUG	:	478k	(+14k)
2017 SEPT	:	494k	(+16k)
2017 OCT	:	510k	(+16k) <- Crossed 500k
2017 NOV	:	523k	(+13k)
2017 DEC	:	534k	(+11k)
-	-
2018 JAN	:	558k	(+24k)
2018 FEB	:	569k	(+11k)
2018 MAR	:	560k	(-9k)
2018 APR	:	574k	(+14k/+5k)
2018 MAY	:	575k	(+1k)
2018 JUNE	:	575k	(+0k)
2018 JULY	:	599k	(+24k)
2018 AUG	:	620k	(+21k)
2018 SEPT	:	625k	(+5k)
2018 OCT	:	597k	(-28k)
2018 NOV	:	606k	(+9k/-19k)
2018 DEC	:	580k	(-26k/-45k)
-	-
2019 JAN	:	628k	(+48k/+3k)
2019 FEB	:	666k	(+38k)
2019 MAR	:	677k	(+11k)
2019 APR	:	706k	(+29k)
2019 MAY	:	670k	(-36k)
2019 JUNE	:	709k	(+39k/+3k)
2019 JULY	:	712k	(+3k)
2019 AUG	:	720k	(+8k)
2019 SEPT	:	725k	(+5k)
2019 OCT	:	753k	(+28k)  <- Crossed 750k
2019 NOV	:	777k	(+24k)
2019 DEC	:	798k	(+21k)
-	-
2020 JAN	:	809k	(+11k)
2020 FEB	:	780k	(-29k)
2020 MAR	:	700k	(-80k/-109k)
2020 APR	:	762k	(+62k/-47k)
2020 MAY	:	818k	(+56k/+8k)
2020 JUNE	:	840k	(+22k)
2020 JULY	:	884k	(+44k)
2020 AUG	:	1.002mm	(+118k)
2020 SEP	:	979k	(-23k/-23k)
2020 OCT	:	971k	(-8k/-31k)
2020 NOV	:	1.058mm	(+87k)
2020 DEC	:	1.100mm	(+42k)
-	-
2021 JAN	:	1.100mm	(+0k)
2021 FEB	:	1.140mm	(+40k)
2021 MAR	:	1.165mm	(+25k)
2021 APR	:	1.202mm	(+37k)
2021 MAY	:	1.209mm	(+7k)
2021 JUNE	:	1.243mm	(+34k)
2021 JULY	:	1.266mm	(+23k)
2021 AUG	:	1.307mm	(+41k)
2021 SEPT	:	1.281mm	(-26k/-26k)[/b]
2021 OCT	:	1.340mm	(+59k)
2021 NOV	:	1.330mm	(-10k/-10k)[/b]
2021 DEC	:	1.374mm	(+44k)

2015 DEC	:	252k
2016 DEC	:	368k
2017 DEC	:	534k
2018 DEC	:	580k
2019 DEC	:	798k
2020 DEC	:	1.100mm	(+302k)
2021 DEC	:	1.374mm	(+274k)
2022 DEC	:	1.318mm	(-56k)
2023 DEC	:	1.615mm	(+297k)
-		-	-
2024 JUL	:	1.810mm	(+195k)
2024 NOV	:	2.000mm	(+385k)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



...AND DONE!

$2,002,206 Net Worth today.

We crossed 1mm back in late 2020, so it took approximately 4 years to make the 2nd million. I've always tracked NW specifically here, but the raw stache is $1,550,000(rounded) currently.
I do feel like I cheated a little bit, because this month we adjusted our home's value up a bit. (Though, still $20k under what Zillow rates it at, but I digress) ...or you could say I hit the goal a while ago and it's just finally showing up.

FIRE is still elusive, while the stache can generate approximately $5k/mo now, our spending is right around that amount, excluding the mortgage. My tenative goals are still closer to 2mm in the stache directly and either paying off the mortgage OR saving whatever equivilent is required to sustain it beyond that. That goal puts us a few years out, it might make us closer to FAT FIRE than anything, and is highly market dependent.

I may end up just posting in both this race and the 2->3m race going forward, not 100% sure yet.

Just a quick introductory post coming from the 1->2mm race. I mostly track NW for simplicity.

Feels good to graduate! Looking forward to seeing how the elites rule!

My core goals are to push the stache over 2mm next and figure out what to do about the housing costs. These are my last road blocks from *RE*, I can probably argue that having a NW of 2mm and 1.5mm+ in the bank probably qualifies me as *FI* or damn close.

These goals might take a few more years, but at 32/34 I feel like we have the time!

Welcome to our club, folks are very nice here (and wealthy!).  I joined not long ago! :)

[bigote2032]

11/30/2023   1.69
12/31/2023   1.77
1/31/2024   1.78
2/29/2024   1.87
3/31/2024   1.94
4/30/2024   1.89
5/31/2024   1.94
6/30/2024   2.01
7/31/2024   2.02
8/31/2024   2.08
9/30/2024   2.18
10/31/2024   2.17
11/30/2024   2.21 (+48K)

Man, it keeps growing even after I had to sell for some major expenses, this investing stuff really works!

[Exflyboy]

@Turtle Its funny, when I first got into the "NW game" I used to count everything, house, car, net present value of defined benefit pensions. As time went on and liquid NW increased things started to get ignored.. Now I don't count anything except investments and cash.

Now I start to question if counting my pretax investments (about half of my total liquid) is really legit.. I mean, to realise that money means paying a lot of tax.. Including 9% income tax in Oregon.. So really 34% of it will get given to the Government.

This might be the ultimate 1st world problem though..:)

Depends on your income, someone who lives off the stache and say.. only needs 60k effectively has a 60k income for that year. A couple with that income level won't get close to 30%+

Until you start getting close to RMD age that is true. When you get to Medicare age there is no motivation to reduce income to get bigly ACA subsidies. Then because your NW has been increasing at 10% annually you realise you had better start Roth conversions because come RMD age you are going to get brutalised!

Its tough up here..:)

[Fomerly known as something]

When I first joined this thread I fully admitted I was cheating but as I mentioned the other day I plugged my pension into an annuity purchase and it would cost $1.7 million to buy it.  With the federal government I could only get my contributions plus treasury interest back so from a liquid net worth point of view it’s worth less than $50k.  I probably also counted at least part of my home, likely not market value but purchase value at least.  Now less than 5 years later I’m here by liquid net worth.  Oh and holy shit I’m up 400k, so not quite half a million.

[SwordGuy]

Net worth is up $63k this month on stock/bond investments alone.    That's more than my wife and I made in the first five years we lived together.

[Fomerly known as something]

So I flat out asked my Mom about their pensions and social security today.  It’s always been a bit in the crack of my mind I might have to help out with long term care.  She and my Dad are bringing in $11,000 a month post tax without tapping into their savings which are growing even though she doesn’t want to do anything in equities.  I’m no longer concerned about having to suppliment.

[2KidFIRE]

Net worth is up $63k this month on stock/bond investments alone.    That's more than my wife and I made in the first five years we lived together.

I had to double-check the numbers, but we are somehow up $160k+ this month, which is getting closer to my annual salary!  I didn't realize that November had been such a good month... Crazy!

[baludon]

So I flat out asked my Mom about their pensions and social security today.  It’s always been a bit in the crack of my mind I might have to help out with long term care.  She and my Dad are bringing in $11,000 a month post tax without tapping into their savings which are growing even though she doesn’t want to do anything in equities.  I’m no longer concerned about having to suppliment.

I had the same concern with my mom several years ago. Come to find out she has over a million in NW, doesn't tap her savings and insists on living only on her social security.

[jeroly]

Net worth is up $63k this month on stock/bond investments alone.    That's more than my wife and I made in the first five years we lived together.

I had to double-check the numbers, but we are somehow up $160k+ this month, which is getting closer to my annual salary!  I didn't realize that November had been such a good month... Crazy!

My investable assets rose in November by more than I earned in my final entire year of megacorp employment, and they rose by more than my out-of-college starting salary in eight months out of the 11 in 2024 so far! It's just surreal.

[Exflyboy]

Makes you wonder if we are blowing a huge bubble in equity valuations here.. rebalance anybody?

[tooqk4u22]

Makes you wonder if we are blowing a huge bubble in equity valuations here.. rebalance anybody?

I don't know if we are in bubble territory but by most objective measures the markets are all highly valued, especially, at current interest rates.  I don't think earnings growth expectations justify it as its about a 22 PE currently on 2025 consensus estimates, but if they come in 22 is high but not bubble'ish. 

Still too much liquidity and too few public investments for all that passive money to go into, so that supports it.

Regardless, emotions/momentum can carry it upward until something breaks. 

So yeah, rebalancing or taking a few chips off the table probably makes sense. 

[2KidFIRE]

Makes you wonder if we are blowing a huge bubble in equity valuations here.. rebalance anybody?

Things definitely seem "frothy" at the moment.  To recognize that fact we're giving up some returns to keep ~10% in HYSA's and CDs.  We're also aiming for a SWR of less than 4% in-line with some of the research that Big ERN has published related to SWR when markets are at high multiples of P/E.

Hopefully that's enough!

[Bateaux]

Makes you wonder if we are blowing a huge bubble in equity valuations here.. rebalance anybody?

Things definitely seem "frothy" at the moment.  To recognize that fact we're giving up some returns to keep ~10% in HYSA's and CDs.  We're also aiming for a SWR of less than 4% in-line with some of the research that Big ERN has published related to SWR when markets are at high multiples of P/E.

Hopefully that's enough!

Definitely bubbling, but I think there is more to come before it pops. I'm going to pull some spending cash in January and probably do some backdoor Roth. The spending cash will probably be enough for 6 months of living if not the whole year. The backdoor Roth I'd rather wait for a big market drop for tax purposes. I'm going to pretty much sell 401K index funds and drop it into the same index funds in a Roth. Pension will keep coming every month so there is that buffer.

[weebs]

Yep, holy shit, I just checked and I can’t believe my portfolio is up half a million dollars YTD again (not counting investing).

Congrats on the progress.  DW and I are in a similar boat - up 500K LNW in the last year.  Yee-haw.  I can't believe it's already been a year since I first posted in this thread.