Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 853836 times)

BigEasyStache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5200 on: July 23, 2021, 09:13:03 AM »
@Firstlane - The article link was from 2104.  I'm thinking the trends you guys have noted have continued. 

The rich get richer and the poor are unemployed.

It's a good time to be retired.

Sure is. The whole US economy is a big game where poor people are encouraged to spend everything they have and then borrow to spend more.

Rich people then get the reward of increasing dividends and stock prices.

The only way to succeed at the game is to do like the rich people do.. Which is exactly what the folks (with modest wealth*) on this forum are doing.


* Modest is < $10m in my estimation.. Of course that would be an insane number to many people in the World.

Well said, @Exflyboy....and on the topic of what constitutes "rich," I think its as much a state of mind as it is a number.  Granted I'm probably 25-30th percentile compared to others on this thread, but at ~$2.6M, I don't consider myself "rich."  Maybe I will feel different if/when I get to $3M, but I doubt it.   If I crossed over $5M, maybe....but that's too far away for me to be able to feel it.  I thought @pecunia had a great thought on this topic:

From @pecunia:
I think beyond the improvement that may be made possible by this it's the emotional well being.  There is such a thing as a sense of freedom.  Your life itself may not be different on the outside, but when you get to that critical mass, something changes on the inside.


Back to me:
And what is interesting about the Net Worth percentiles is how NW begins to increase exponentially right around the 92nd or 93rd percentile.  With all due respect to all on this thread (again, many of whom have more wealth than me), I don't think it is possible for most of us to fathom the difference between $2-4M and hundreds of millions or even billions.

I'm sure you've heard the analogy before.  1 million seconds is 12 days.  1 billion seconds is 30 years.   Blows my mind every time I see that.

Or, to put it another way:

1 billion is 1,000 millions.

or

1 million is .1% of a billion

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5201 on: July 23, 2021, 09:17:24 AM »
All true @BigEasyStache -- but somehow my brain cannot relate to .1% as well as it does the time analogy....

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5202 on: July 23, 2021, 10:10:38 AM »
For a point of reference I "made" my DW watch the movie "The Queen of Versaille" last night.

The dysfunction that comes with billions of $ and megalomaniac always striving for more. That kind of lifestyle is the complete antithesis of what I want my life to look like but with an approximate NW of $4m+ I could see me being happy with say $25M.

Beyond that its hard to imagine what I would buy.. Private jet maybe?

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5203 on: July 23, 2021, 10:58:58 AM »
For a point of reference I "made" my DW watch the movie "The Queen of Versaille" last night.

The dysfunction that comes with billions of $ and megalomaniac always striving for more. That kind of lifestyle is the complete antithesis of what I want my life to look like but with an approximate NW of $4m+ I could see me being happy with say $25M.

Beyond that its hard to imagine what I would buy.. Private jet maybe?

Not sure I follow your meaning?

You aren't happy at $4m but would be happy at $25m?

Or you're happy at $4m and would still be happy at $25m, but suspect more than that it would become a burden?

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5204 on: July 23, 2021, 12:26:52 PM »
There are very few ways we could end up poor or back in the middle class at our amount of wealth, $3.1 million.

We don't owe anyone anything other than the last month's credit cards and an occasional tradesman doing a repair or renovation.   

Our FIRE income is generally higher than our expenses.

We have a diverse set of assets:  farmland in one state, rental properties in another, social security benefits, and a diverse set of stocks and bonds in index funds.

A horrible, lingering illness is the single most likely way it could happen.  If our nation was at all reasonable and had a national health service that problem would simply vanish.   Given that medical bills are the single biggest reason for bankruptcy in the US...

Dementia and becoming victims of elder-abuse fraud would be another.

A complete collapse of our nation.

Having the alt-right fascists take over and having to flee the country plus having our possessions confiscated for having been outspoken opponents of their world view.   I'm sure there's more than one nazi rat-bastard I've interacted with on social media who would put my name on "the list".

That's pretty much it.

That's why I defined my situation as "solidly rich".

All these quotes could have come straight from my brain SwordGuy.   The health care fear us what keeps me working my soul stealing job.  That fear should not even be possible for someone with over 3 million in net worth. 

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5205 on: July 23, 2021, 01:13:30 PM »
For a point of reference I "made" my DW watch the movie "The Queen of Versaille" last night.

The dysfunction that comes with billions of $ and megalomaniac always striving for more. That kind of lifestyle is the complete antithesis of what I want my life to look like but with an approximate NW of $4m+ I could see me being happy with say $25M.

Beyond that its hard to imagine what I would buy.. Private jet maybe?

Not sure I follow your meaning?

You aren't happy at $4m but would be happy at $25m?

Or you're happy at $4m and would still be happy at $25m, but suspect more than that it would become a burden?

Perfectly happy with $4m (and was just as happy at $2M).. Would still be happy at $25M but more than that would be pointless and possibly a burden.

I know of one Widow locally who inherited her Hubby's timber business. This guy had done things like.. Built a new wing on the local hospital. I don't know the value of the estate but I am assuming it was sizable. She once told my Wife that the money was a huge burden to her and basically a full time job just making sure it was going to worthy charitable causes.

So yeah I think I'd stop at $25M..;)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 04:32:30 PM by Exflyboy »

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5206 on: July 23, 2021, 02:47:19 PM »
There are very few ways we could end up poor or back in the middle class at our amount of wealth, $3.1 million.

We don't owe anyone anything other than the last month's credit cards and an occasional tradesman doing a repair or renovation.   

Our FIRE income is generally higher than our expenses.

We have a diverse set of assets:  farmland in one state, rental properties in another, social security benefits, and a diverse set of stocks and bonds in index funds.

A horrible, lingering illness is the single most likely way it could happen.  If our nation was at all reasonable and had a national health service that problem would simply vanish.   Given that medical bills are the single biggest reason for bankruptcy in the US...

Dementia and becoming victims of elder-abuse fraud would be another.

A complete collapse of our nation.

Having the alt-right fascists take over and having to flee the country plus having our possessions confiscated for having been outspoken opponents of their world view.   I'm sure there's more than one nazi rat-bastard I've interacted with on social media who would put my name on "the list".

That's pretty much it.

That's why I defined my situation as "solidly rich".

All these quotes could have come straight from my brain SwordGuy.   The health care fear us what keeps me working my soul stealing job.  That fear should not even be possible for someone with over 3 million in net worth.

Honestly, if $3.1million with no debt can't handle the medical bills, then the paltry few hundred thousand I would be adding to the pile are unlikely to make much difference either.   

jeroly

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5207 on: July 23, 2021, 04:33:42 PM »
For a point of reference I "made" my DW watch the movie "The Queen of Versaille" last night.

The dysfunction that comes with billions of $ and megalomaniac always striving for more. That kind of lifestyle is the complete antithesis of what I want my life to look like but with an approximate NW of $4m+ I could see me being happy with say $25M.

Beyond that its hard to imagine what I would buy.. Private jet maybe?

I will never forget reading an article back in the late 90's or so about a group of Wall Street types who took the same train home to Greenwich CT every night.  They used to ask each other 'what's your number?' (what net worth do you need to have so you can walk away from the game).  Well, as the late 90's went on and asset values exploded, all were meeting their numbers, yet none of them were walking away.  It wasn't so much the OMY phenomenon as much as that their hedonic adaptation was forcing an explosion of their numbers.  When one of them was asked why he didn't quit despite having many millions, he explained, "It's not 'jet money.'"

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5208 on: July 23, 2021, 04:55:32 PM »
For a point of reference I "made" my DW watch the movie "The Queen of Versaille" last night.

The dysfunction that comes with billions of $ and megalomaniac always striving for more. That kind of lifestyle is the complete antithesis of what I want my life to look like but with an approximate NW of $4m+ I could see me being happy with say $25M.

Beyond that its hard to imagine what I would buy.. Private jet maybe?

I will never forget reading an article back in the late 90's or so about a group of Wall Street types who took the same train home to Greenwich CT every night.  They used to ask each other 'what's your number?' (what net worth do you need to have so you can walk away from the game).  Well, as the late 90's went on and asset values exploded, all were meeting their numbers, yet none of them were walking away.  It wasn't so much the OMY phenomenon as much as that their hedonic adaptation was forcing an explosion of their numbers.  When one of them was asked why he didn't quit despite having many millions, he explained, "It's not 'jet money.'"

Yup, having already been the owner (and builder) of a high performance piston engined aircraft I can honestly say I do not aspire to anything the flies higher or faster.

In fact I've noticed that the less stuff I own the happier I am.. I sold the airplane and would be quite happy to sell our house/farmette/rentals and live in a van or rent a house in the Winter.

But then.. what is the point of having huge $$ and nothing to spend it on.. OK maybe I'll keep the house and buy a turbo-prop..:)

markbike528CBX

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5209 on: July 23, 2021, 05:45:57 PM »
For a point of reference I "made" my DW watch the movie "The Queen of Versaille" last night.

The dysfunction that comes with billions of $ and megalomaniac always striving for more. That kind of lifestyle is the complete antithesis of what I want my life to look like but with an approximate NW of $4m+ I could see me being happy with say $25M.

Beyond that its hard to imagine what I would buy.. Private jet maybe?

I will never forget reading an article back in the late 90's or so about a group of Wall Street types who took the same train home to Greenwich CT every night.  They used to ask each other 'what's your number?' (what net worth do you need to have so you can walk away from the game).  Well, as the late 90's went on and asset values exploded, all were meeting their numbers, yet none of them were walking away.  It wasn't so much the OMY phenomenon as much as that their hedonic adaptation was forcing an explosion of their numbers.  When one of them was asked why he didn't quit despite having many millions, he explained, "It's not 'jet money.'"

Yup, having already been the owner (and builder) of a high performance piston engined aircraft I can honestly say I do not aspire to anything the flies higher or faster.

In fact I've noticed that the less stuff I own the happier I am.. I sold the airplane and would be quite happy to sell our house/farmette/rentals and live in a van or rent a house in the Winter.

But then.. what is the point of having huge $$ and nothing to spend it on.. OK maybe I'll keep the house and buy a turbo-prop..:)
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Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5210 on: July 23, 2021, 06:29:26 PM »
@markbike528CBX I think the L39 might drain my asset accounts in fuel alone..:)

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5211 on: July 24, 2021, 01:04:54 AM »
I'm almost happy my eyesight is too poor to be a pilot.  Boats are expensive enough.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5212 on: July 24, 2021, 03:45:54 AM »
I think there is a major difference between being Rich and being Rich in life and would much rather have the latter. To have that you need to feel financial secure but not live the life of the lavish. Being happy, being healthy, having real friends and family, some toys and the ability to do most what you want is the real goal at least for me not just a number. And I believe most everyone here feels the same way. I think though some people do lose site of that and or take life out of the equation concentrating to a certain degree to much on a number. Sure I would like to have more but as long as i have the other things and am not willing anymore in my life to give those up to have more and thats what i was doing up until a little over 6 years ago.

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5213 on: July 24, 2021, 04:00:23 AM »
I am reminded of the quote "If it floats or flies, rent don't buy" :-)


ShadowRegent

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5214 on: July 24, 2021, 05:33:26 AM »
With recent market gains, I just graduated from the $1-2M thread.

End of year stats:
2010 - ($188,257)
2011 - ($159,240)
2012 - $75,812
2013 - $82,600
2014 - $190,525
2015 - $593,948
2016 - $619,152
2017 - $961,556
2018 - $966,365
2019 - $1,288,725
2020 - $1,616,389
2021 (YTD) - $2,003,017

I never imagined hitting $2M so quickly.  8.5 years ago, I was celebrating a zero net worth!

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5215 on: July 24, 2021, 05:51:17 AM »
With recent market gains, I just graduated from the $1-2M thread.

End of year stats:
2010 - ($188,257)
2011 - ($159,240)
2012 - $75,812
2013 - $82,600
2014 - $190,525
2015 - $593,948
2016 - $619,152
2017 - $961,556
2018 - $966,365
2019 - $1,288,725
2020 - $1,616,389
2021 (YTD) - $2,003,017

I never imagined hitting $2M so quickly.  8.5 years ago, I was celebrating a zero net worth!

Nicely done!  Hopefully you are now enjoying that FI feeling!

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5216 on: July 24, 2021, 07:53:46 AM »
I am reminded of the quote "If it floats or flies, rent don't buy" :-)

Haha - Love it!

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5217 on: July 24, 2021, 09:03:37 AM »
With recent market gains, I just graduated from the $1-2M thread.

End of year stats:
2010 - ($188,257)
2011 - ($159,240)
2012 - $75,812
2013 - $82,600
2014 - $190,525
2015 - $593,948
2016 - $619,152
2017 - $961,556
2018 - $966,365
2019 - $1,288,725
2020 - $1,616,389
2021 (YTD) - $2,003,017

I never imagined hitting $2M so quickly.  8.5 years ago, I was celebrating a zero net worth!

Welcome @ShadowRegent !   I'm also relatively new to this group.  Our recent growth rates are similar, although you are doing better than me in 2021YTD....

Invested Assets (in thousands)
2019 - $1,473
2020 - $1,849
YTD2021 - $2,185

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5218 on: July 24, 2021, 09:08:04 AM »
I am reminded of the quote "If it floats or flies, rent don't buy" :-)

Haha - Love it!

I know, I think that includes timeshares as well... er.... NOT!

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5219 on: July 24, 2021, 09:28:13 AM »
I am reminded of the quote "If it floats or flies, rent don't buy" :-)

Haha - Love it!

I know, I think that includes timeshares as well... er.... NOT!
BOAT #breakoutanotherthousand


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EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5220 on: July 24, 2021, 03:45:32 PM »
I am reminded of the quote "If it floats or flies, rent don't buy" :-)

Haha - Love it!

I know, I think that includes timeshares as well... er.... NOT!
BOAT #breakoutanotherthousand

I have rented a whole lotta boats and jet skis in my day, and they get better every year #DazedAndConfused

mjr

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5221 on: July 24, 2021, 04:38:21 PM »
I am reminded of the quote "If it floats or flies, rent don't buy" :-)

That quote is missing another "f" word, but that's understandable in a civilised forum.

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5222 on: July 24, 2021, 07:37:22 PM »
For a point of reference I "made" my DW watch the movie "The Queen of Versaille" last night.

The dysfunction that comes with billions of $ and megalomaniac always striving for more. That kind of lifestyle is the complete antithesis of what I want my life to look like but with an approximate NW of $4m+ I could see me being happy with say $25M.

Beyond that its hard to imagine what I would buy.. Private jet maybe?

I will be happy with $25M or $1B, why not happy with more money? I just will not make any efforts to get that $25M. It is not worth my efforts.

GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5223 on: July 24, 2021, 08:29:17 PM »
I am reminded of the quote "If it floats or flies, rent don't buy" :-)

Haha - Love it!

I know, I think that includes timeshares as well... er.... NOT!
BOAT #breakoutanotherthousand

I have rented a whole lotta boats and jet skis in my day, and they get better every year #DazedAndConfused


We live on the water, so owning a boat is like just having another car.  We just walk down our dock anytime we like and go out on the lake for as long as we like. 


For reference, our $50K tritoon boat would be paid for after about 100 days of paying for a rental.  (similar boats rent for $600 on weekends & $400 on weekdays + $85 gas fee)   Also, boats don't seem to depreciate as quickly as cars. 


We wouldn't own a boat if we didn't have a home on the water. 

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5224 on: July 24, 2021, 08:35:27 PM »
I am reminded of the quote "If it floats or flies, rent don't buy" :-)

Haha - Love it!

I know, I think that includes timeshares as well... er.... NOT!
BOAT #breakoutanotherthousand

I have rented a whole lotta boats and jet skis in my day, and they get better every year #DazedAndConfused


We live on the water, so owning a boat is like just having another car.  We just walk down our dock anytime we like and go out on the lake for as long as we like. 


For reference, our $50K tritoon boat would be paid for after about 100 days of paying for a rental.  (similar boats rent for $600 on weekends & $400 on weekdays + $85 gas fee)   Also, boats don't seem to depreciate as quickly as cars. 


We wouldn't own a boat if we didn't have a home on the water.

Yep.  We've always lived waterfront.  The boats are almost must have.

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5225 on: July 26, 2021, 06:31:53 AM »
Also, boats don't seem to depreciate as quickly as cars. 

Maybe if you're comparing to a Maserati or AMG.  Sold my boat bought new all in for about $16k after 4 years for $8k. 

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5226 on: July 26, 2021, 01:08:05 PM »
Also, boats don't seem to depreciate as quickly as cars. 

Maybe if you're comparing to a Maserati or AMG.  Sold my boat bought new all in for about $16k after 4 years for $8k.

We've done pretty good with boat value.  We bought a 23 foot ski boat for $24K, kept it 12 years and sold for $12K.  We bought a 32 foot party barge/pontoon for $25K and 4 years later sold for $28K (recession buy).   Had a 24 foot offshore fishing boat bought for $12,500 and sold for $10,500.   Currently have an 18 foot center console, paid 10K in 2005, still worth $7500.  What eats you up is maintence.   As everyone knows, BOAT means break out another thousand.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 01:34:20 PM by Bateaux »

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5227 on: July 26, 2021, 01:33:50 PM »
It looks like I've been underestimating my lump sum payout from my company pension.  A search on the Prudential website shows me a vastly different number than they'd been reporting.  Both numbers are only estimates.  The real number won't be calculated until July 1, 2023 when I'm eligible for retirment. I'm planning to leave May 2023 using PTO until then.  The number I've just seen is almost $250K higher than the current estimated value.  The estimate is over $150K more than I'd expected it to be in July 2023.  It's definitely mood lightening.

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5228 on: July 26, 2021, 06:13:34 PM »
It looks like I've been underestimating my lump sum payout from my company pension.  A search on the Prudential website shows me a vastly different number than they'd been reporting.  Both numbers are only estimates.  The real number won't be calculated until July 1, 2023 when I'm eligible for retirment. I'm planning to leave May 2023 using PTO until then.  The number I've just seen is almost $250K higher than the current estimated value.  The estimate is over $150K more than I'd expected it to be in July 2023.  It's definitely mood lightening.

Hot dayum!  I get excited when I find a $1,000 error in my favor in my various analyses.   I can only imagine how "mood lightening" $150K must be!   Way to go, @Bateaux !

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5229 on: July 26, 2021, 08:32:45 PM »
Local bar has this on the wall:

Two happiest days of a boat owner, "The day you buy the boat and the day you sell the boat!"

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5230 on: July 26, 2021, 09:15:26 PM »
Local bar has this on the wall:

Two happiest days of a boat owner, "The day you buy the boat and the day you sell the boat!"
My dad likes to think he coined that phrase. Thank god Iím not into boats.


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ixtap

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5231 on: July 26, 2021, 10:44:22 PM »
Local bar has this on the wall:

Two happiest days of a boat owner, "The day you buy the boat and the day you sell the boat!"

I cried the day we sold our first boat and we already had a kayak and a bigger boat. Makes me think the people who like this phrase also like I agree my spouse jokes :(

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5232 on: July 27, 2021, 02:18:33 PM »
We just bought an air-filled boat from Aldi for $10.

GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5233 on: July 27, 2021, 02:45:02 PM »
We just bought an air-filled boat from Aldi for $10.




From what I've heard, you'll be miserable until the day you sell it.  ;)  LOL 

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5234 on: July 27, 2021, 04:29:53 PM »
We just bought an air-filled boat from Aldi for $10.

I bet itís only worth $8 now that you took it off the lot ;)

jeroly

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5235 on: July 28, 2021, 01:17:19 PM »
We just bought an air-filled boat from Aldi for $10.
I bet itís only worth $8 now that you took it off the lot ;)
Yeah, but it's the maintenance costs that'll kill ya.

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5236 on: July 28, 2021, 09:26:50 PM »
We just bought an air-filled boat from Aldi for $10.




From what I've heard, you'll be miserable until the day you sell it.  ;)  LOL

We found that we were not allowed to put that boat in the local lake, after we did it.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5237 on: July 29, 2021, 06:04:57 AM »
So I sold my house, and paid off the mortgage (because Iím now renting).  Got the first equity deposit today, due to my relo benefits, I get to stay in my home until 8/20, but they keep 10% of the equity back in escrow until Iím actually out.  Should be dumping it into the market by the end of the week so I expect the ďTop is inĒ.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5238 on: July 29, 2021, 08:23:50 AM »
We just bought an air-filled boat from Aldi for $10.

From what I've heard, you'll be miserable until the day you sell it.  ;)  LOL

We found that we were not allowed to put that boat in the local lake, after we did it.

So you shelled out ten bucks without checking the restrictions?  You must be rich!

Also, our local lake prohibits all watercraft, but that doesn't seem to stop the occasional SUP, kayak, canoe, and RC boat enthusiasts...  as long as it doesn't get out of hand and you know what you're doing, no one rats anyone else out...  just sayin

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5239 on: July 30, 2021, 08:58:24 AM »
I may take our little 26 foot sailboat (It's on a trailer not a yacht) out this weekend.  I'm working OT tonight or I'd do it now.  I know, I know.  Quit now and take the boat out.  It's only 22 months now,  I'm patient.  Yesterday was a bad day at work.  Yes it was busy, but that's not why.  I'm going to miss the shit out of some of my co-workers.   Hopefully they will visit us for Florida fun in coming years.  We've got ours, now we're working to be able to give back.  Dicey has inspired me working at the thrift store.  Our favorite place in Florida is the Habitat for Humanity store.  We bought some of our furnishings there as well as some appliances and tools.  I can see a not so long from now me volunteering at the store and on their building projects.
Back to boats.  I'm thinking of selling the 26 foot trailer sailboat for something smaller.  The Florida west coast has active small boat sailing groups.  Their boats are small enough to drag off the beach and row through inland areas.  The cabins are basically a hard dodger or just canvas.  My 26 is both too big and too little.  Too big for the skinny water and too small for multiple people overnight.  I've all but flushed the yacht dreams.   I think I'll get my bare boat certification and rent them where I want to sail.  Let the owner do the maintence and worry about hurricanes.

ixtap

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5240 on: July 30, 2021, 09:59:53 AM »
We loved our trailer sailor for weekend use. However, we did chose not to have a beachable one because we were still a young couple and didn't like the bundling board effect of a centerboard coming into the cabin.

What is a yacht in your opinion? Legally, it is often just a privately owned boat. I like to refer to my 39' sailboat as a yacht. After all, it is mid range of the boats slipped at my yacht club.

4tify

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5241 on: July 30, 2021, 11:14:49 AM »
There are very few ways we could end up poor or back in the middle class at our amount of wealth, $3.1 million.

We don't owe anyone anything other than the last month's credit cards and an occasional tradesman doing a repair or renovation.   

Our FIRE income is generally higher than our expenses.

We have a diverse set of assets:  farmland in one state, rental properties in another, social security benefits, and a diverse set of stocks and bonds in index funds.

A horrible, lingering illness is the single most likely way it could happen.  If our nation was at all reasonable and had a national health service that problem would simply vanish.   Given that medical bills are the single biggest reason for bankruptcy in the US...

Dementia and becoming victims of elder-abuse fraud would be another.

A complete collapse of our nation.

Having the alt-right fascists take over and having to flee the country plus having our possessions confiscated for having been outspoken opponents of their world view.   I'm sure there's more than one nazi rat-bastard I've interacted with on social media who would put my name on "the list".

That's pretty much it.

That's why I defined my situation as "solidly rich".

All these quotes could have come straight from my brain SwordGuy.   The health care fear us what keeps me working my soul stealing job.  That fear should not even be possible for someone with over 3 million in net worth.

Honestly, if $3.1million with no debt can't handle the medical bills, then the paltry few hundred thousand I would be adding to the pile are unlikely to make much difference either.   

I have (fortunately) never seen anyone go bankrupt from medical care. Isn't that what insurance is for? At what NW is a person finally free of that fear?

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5242 on: July 30, 2021, 11:58:35 AM »
There are very few ways we could end up poor or back in the middle class at our amount of wealth, $3.1 million.

We don't owe anyone anything other than the last month's credit cards and an occasional tradesman doing a repair or renovation.   

Our FIRE income is generally higher than our expenses.

We have a diverse set of assets:  farmland in one state, rental properties in another, social security benefits, and a diverse set of stocks and bonds in index funds.

A horrible, lingering illness is the single most likely way it could happen.  If our nation was at all reasonable and had a national health service that problem would simply vanish.   Given that medical bills are the single biggest reason for bankruptcy in the US...

Dementia and becoming victims of elder-abuse fraud would be another.

A complete collapse of our nation.

Having the alt-right fascists take over and having to flee the country plus having our possessions confiscated for having been outspoken opponents of their world view.   I'm sure there's more than one nazi rat-bastard I've interacted with on social media who would put my name on "the list".

That's pretty much it.

That's why I defined my situation as "solidly rich".

All these quotes could have come straight from my brain SwordGuy.   The health care fear us what keeps me working my soul stealing job.  That fear should not even be possible for someone with over 3 million in net worth.

Honestly, if $3.1million with no debt can't handle the medical bills, then the paltry few hundred thousand I would be adding to the pile are unlikely to make much difference either.   

I have (fortunately) never seen anyone go bankrupt from medical care. Isn't that what insurance is for? At what NW is a person finally free of that fear?

I have.   Workmen's comp claim that was slowed down, obfuscated, fought, etc.   Family finally went broke.

A high school friend's wife got Covid bad.  Costs were about $180k.

I know people who need medicine that costs them $2k a month.

Insurance doesn't cover everything.  If it does cover it, it may only cover it "some" of the time.   And, of course, it may only cover some of the cost while you take it, too.   And, of course, there may be a lifetime cap on coverage.

Insurance companies have lots of tricks to minimize the potential cost of a very expensive illness to them -- and thus transfer the costs to the insured.    And, of course, they've put money in the pockets of legislators to let them get away with it.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5243 on: July 30, 2021, 12:34:25 PM »
We loved our trailer sailor for weekend use. However, we did chose not to have a beachable one because we were still a young couple and didn't like the bundling board effect of a centerboard coming into the cabin.

What is a yacht in your opinion? Legally, it is often just a privately owned boat. I like to refer to my 39' sailboat as a yacht. After all, it is mid range of the boats slipped at my yacht club.

You definitely have a yacht.  I'd say 35+ feet and well equipped for living aboard is a yacht.  I don't want pets, boats or dwellings that would prevent spontaneous travel/vacations for at least a few years into FIRE.  We're inland about 11 miles in Florida from the nearest Gulf of Mexico marina, we could have a true yacht there. Here in Louisiana we're waterfront, but bridges and shoals prevent higher than 22 feet vertical or 5 feet draft vessels up the river this far.  Thus the stepable mast and trailer.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5244 on: July 30, 2021, 12:38:47 PM »
There are very few ways we could end up poor or back in the middle class at our amount of wealth, $3.1 million.

We don't owe anyone anything other than the last month's credit cards and an occasional tradesman doing a repair or renovation.   

Our FIRE income is generally higher than our expenses.

We have a diverse set of assets:  farmland in one state, rental properties in another, social security benefits, and a diverse set of stocks and bonds in index funds.

A horrible, lingering illness is the single most likely way it could happen.  If our nation was at all reasonable and had a national health service that problem would simply vanish.   Given that medical bills are the single biggest reason for bankruptcy in the US...

Dementia and becoming victims of elder-abuse fraud would be another.

A complete collapse of our nation.

Having the alt-right fascists take over and having to flee the country plus having our possessions confiscated for having been outspoken opponents of their world view.   I'm sure there's more than one nazi rat-bastard I've interacted with on social media who would put my name on "the list".

That's pretty much it.

That's why I defined my situation as "solidly rich".

All these quotes could have come straight from my brain SwordGuy.   The health care fear us what keeps me working my soul stealing job.  That fear should not even be possible for someone with over 3 million in net worth.

Honestly, if $3.1million with no debt can't handle the medical bills, then the paltry few hundred thousand I would be adding to the pile are unlikely to make much difference either.   

I have (fortunately) never seen anyone go bankrupt from medical care. Isn't that what insurance is for? At what NW is a person finally free of that fear?

My dad died of brain cancer in 2007.  Medical bills were over $2 million.  Fortunately he had insurance.  Had he not, he would have died of the medical bills even if he had beaten the cancer.

We've been down the cancer path with our oldest son.   Once you've seen those bills and the length of needed care it's eye opening.   I have no doubts that my wife and I will also need big medical care expenses in the future.  You know your future health a lot better in your 50s.  That's the danger of working too long.  You miss the good years working that you should have enjoyed and all but know the not so distant future coming for you.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5245 on: July 31, 2021, 12:07:49 PM »
Plus with something like cancer, say you want to see a specialist in another town.  Insurance likely will pay if you need to stay in a hospital bed, but it wonít pay for a hotel room or travel.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5246 on: July 31, 2021, 02:18:25 PM »
Plus with something like cancer, say you want to see a specialist in another town.  Insurance likely will pay if you need to stay in a hospital bed, but it wonít pay for a hotel room or travel.

I would doubt it if your Bronze plan says there is no coverage for out of network. In fact I hear all the time of people being transported to an OON hospital for more advanced care, but I know full well the destination hospital is OON and if you're unconscious (likely after an accident) I'm assuming the patient is on the hook for the entire bill?

Anyone know any different?

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5247 on: July 31, 2021, 03:12:34 PM »
Plus with something like cancer, say you want to see a specialist in another town.  Insurance likely will pay if you need to stay in a hospital bed, but it wonít pay for a hotel room or travel.

I would doubt it if your Bronze plan says there is no coverage for out of network. In fact I hear all the time of people being transported to an OON hospital for more advanced care, but I know full well the destination hospital is OON and if you're unconscious (likely after an accident) I'm assuming the patient is on the hook for the entire bill?

Anyone know any different?

There is the No Surprises Act that was passed into law recently.  I think it covers emergency/urgent care situations where you're unconscious or the anesthesiologist is OON and things like that.  I think the law is not intended to cover situations where you deliberately choose OON treatment just because it's better care (like going to the Mayo clinic for cancer treatment or something).  Law goes into effect 1/1/2022.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5248 on: July 31, 2021, 03:45:23 PM »
Plus with something like cancer, say you want to see a specialist in another town.  Insurance likely will pay if you need to stay in a hospital bed, but it wonít pay for a hotel room or travel.

I would doubt it if your Bronze plan says there is no coverage for out of network. In fact I hear all the time of people being transported to an OON hospital for more advanced care, but I know full well the destination hospital is OON and if you're unconscious (likely after an accident) I'm assuming the patient is on the hook for the entire bill?

Anyone know any different?

There is the No Surprises Act that was passed into law recently.  I think it covers emergency/urgent care situations where you're unconscious or the anesthesiologist is OON and things like that.  I think the law is not intended to cover situations where you deliberately choose OON treatment just because it's better care (like going to the Mayo clinic for cancer treatment or something).  Law goes into effect 1/1/2022.

 I was thinking more along the lines of my Bosses experience with his nationwide employer healthcare.  His wife got breast cancer.  She was treated at MD Anderson, they lived in Virginia.  Insurance did not pay for their travel to Houston or the hotel they stayed at while she was being treated.

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5249 on: July 31, 2021, 04:27:07 PM »
Plus with something like cancer, say you want to see a specialist in another town.  Insurance likely will pay if you need to stay in a hospital bed, but it wonít pay for a hotel room or travel.

I would doubt it if your Bronze plan says there is no coverage for out of network. In fact I hear all the time of people being transported to an OON hospital for more advanced care, but I know full well the destination hospital is OON and if you're unconscious (likely after an accident) I'm assuming the patient is on the hook for the entire bill?

Anyone know any different?

There is the No Surprises Act that was passed into law recently.  I think it covers emergency/urgent care situations where you're unconscious or the anesthesiologist is OON and things like that.  I think the law is not intended to cover situations where you deliberately choose OON treatment just because it's better care (like going to the Mayo clinic for cancer treatment or something).  Law goes into effect 1/1/2022.

 I was thinking more along the lines of my Bosses experience with his nationwide employer healthcare.  His wife got breast cancer.  She was treated at MD Anderson, they lived in Virginia.  Insurance did not pay for their travel to Houston or the hotel they stayed at while she was being treated.

Right.  My response was more directed at ExFlyBoy's comments immediately above my own.