Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 853847 times)

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4500 on: February 08, 2021, 01:17:23 PM »
Discussions at work, inflation is our biggest concern.  My shift is made up of old guys.  Every single one of us are in gear down mode.  Ages are 66, 62, 56 and 52.  I'm the baby at 52.  The 66 and 62 have already put in their dates and have less than a year.  The 56 is building a house and will look at where he stands after moving in.  He doesn't plan to pay off the house with the low interest rates.  I will go sometime between tomorrow and mid 2023.  I'm going to miss these guys a lot.  We'll live in three different states in retirement.   My desire to go will definitely increase as they leave.  Work is fun because we all have FU Money, we are all,millionaires.  We are all college educated, we are all frugal, we are all married to the same spouses for over 30 years.  None of us have called in for a sick day in three decades.  None of us have missed one day of being on site at work due to Covid.  We all have a company pension. We all have six weeks of vacation time and one week of paid time off. We are all offered company sponsored health care in retirement if you work till 55.  All of our wives are independant, smart and college educated.  All of our children are college educated. 
We've all been in a very comfortable bubble.  Our company used a battery of testing and interviews to select for our exact traits. I can never remember an argument.  We have friendly debates over coffee and have our individual opinions.  It's incredibly hard to leave such a level of comfort making six figures.  When their Gen Z replacements walk in with nose rings, tats and GTFO attitude I'll be ready.  It will be their turn.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4501 on: February 08, 2021, 01:54:02 PM »
Discussions at work, inflation is our biggest concern.  My shift is made up of old guys.  Every single one of us are in gear down mode.  Ages are 66, 62, 56 and 52.  I'm the baby at 52.  The 66 and 62 have already put in their dates and have less than a year.  The 56 is building a house and will look at where he stands after moving in.  He doesn't plan to pay off the house with the low interest rates.  I will go sometime between tomorrow and mid 2023.  I'm going to miss these guys a lot.  We'll live in three different states in retirement.   My desire to go will definitely increase as they leave.  Work is fun because we all have FU Money, we are all,millionaires.  We are all college educated, we are all frugal, we are all married to the same spouses for over 30 years.  None of us have called in for a sick day in three decades.  None of us have missed one day of being on site at work due to Covid.  We all have a company pension. We all have six weeks of vacation time and one week of paid time off. We are all offered company sponsored health care in retirement if you work till 55.  All of our wives are independant, smart and college educated.  All of our children are college educated. 
We've all been in a very comfortable bubble.  Our company used a battery of testing and interviews to select for our exact traits. I can never remember an argument.  We have friendly debates over coffee and have our individual opinions.  It's incredibly hard to leave such a level of comfort making six figures.  When their Gen Z replacements walk in with nose rings, tats and GTFO attitude I'll be ready.  It will be their turn.

That's a pretty amazing group and family situation, Bateaux.  I've been been following your Louisiana/Florida odyssey, and now I understand better why you're sticking around.  Health insurance is one thing.  A group like that might be even more important.  With the 12-hour shifts, one-week on/one-week off, and with the diving avatar image, are you diving off a rig?  In that case, you'd want to have a group like that around you.  Even if you're not diving, if you're on a rig or even a control room in close quarters with safety a primary concern, going through changes to a team like yours would be a big reason to move on.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4502 on: February 08, 2021, 02:06:36 PM »
We are all offered company sponsored health care in retirement if you work till 55. 
Wow, how good a plan & cost is that, And its all or nothing exactly at 55?  I could see that being some serious golden handcuffs at your point in the game and not hating work yet.

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4503 on: February 08, 2021, 03:00:33 PM »
Thank God my hubby wants to keep working. I will need a healthcare sugar daddy when I FIRE.


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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4504 on: February 08, 2021, 03:28:15 PM »
We are all offered company sponsored health care in retirement if you work till 55. 
Wow, how good a plan & cost is that, And its all or nothing exactly at 55?  I could see that being some serious golden handcuffs at your point in the game and not hating work yet.

If I wasnít hating my corporation and boss, I wouldnít have retired early.  They sucked all the fun and enjoyment out of work with their stupid fuckery.

My co-workers were great (except a couple of them)

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4505 on: February 08, 2021, 06:42:38 PM »
By the way I'm not hating on the younger generation that will take our jobs.  They are very different and will do things their way.  If anything, I'm only jealous of their youth and vitality.  I will greatly miss our work relationship.  I'm only a recreational scuba diver and work in a land based chemical plant.  It has potential dangers, we use some deadly and explosive raw materials in the process.  However with engineering controls and worker competency we mitigate those hazards.  Our drive to work is likely our most dangerous task of the day.  Just writing this as a tribute before we go our own ways.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4506 on: February 08, 2021, 06:52:20 PM »
We are all offered company sponsored health care in retirement if you work till 55. 
Wow, how good a plan & cost is that, And its all or nothing exactly at 55?  I could see that being some serious golden handcuffs at your point in the game and not hating work yet.

Our rules changed in 2012.  Under the old rules my eligibility for retirement was last August.  I can still get my pension without being penalized if I quit now.  For the healthcare I must reach 55.  The age 55 rule also becomes available to me in January of 2023 although my birthday is in June.  Current retiree healthcare is about $850 a month for my wife and I.  It's great to have the option to leave if we choose.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4507 on: February 09, 2021, 08:13:42 AM »
By the way I'm not hating on the younger generation that will take our jobs.  They are very different and will do things their way.  If anything, I'm only jealous of their youth and vitality.  I will greatly miss our work relationship.  I'm only a recreational scuba diver and work in a land based chemical plant.  It has potential dangers, we use some deadly and explosive raw materials in the process.  However with engineering controls and worker competency we mitigate those hazards.  Our drive to work is likely our most dangerous task of the day.  Just writing this as a tribute before we go our own ways.

Once in a while I run into people who say young people don't want to work.  Then I go into most any gas station and talk to the young attendant.  These folks often are working more than one job.  I'll bet they'll find people to do the job fine and the job will be most appreciated.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4508 on: February 09, 2021, 09:20:48 AM »
By the way I'm not hating on the younger generation that will take our jobs.  They are very different and will do things their way.  If anything, I'm only jealous of their youth and vitality.  I will greatly miss our work relationship.  I'm only a recreational scuba diver and work in a land based chemical plant.  It has potential dangers, we use some deadly and explosive raw materials in the process.  However with engineering controls and worker competency we mitigate those hazards.  Our drive to work is likely our most dangerous task of the day.  Just writing this as a tribute before we go our own ways.

Once in a while I run into people who say young people don't want to work.  Then I go into most any gas station and talk to the young attendant.  These folks often are working more than one job.  I'll bet they'll find people to do the job fine and the job will be most appreciated.


I tend to agree with you. Like any generation you have the workers and the lazies. I know alot of younger people that are killing it and worked as hard if not harder and smarter than I did. Technology is what makes alot of things appear as they do plus dual income is more the normal than at least I was growing up. Now add to that the shift of working at home.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4509 on: February 12, 2021, 02:23:55 PM »
While its nice to see the portfolio rise , there are so many components of the market that are just baffling to me. And more each day. Like a 2.5$ stock trading 2.5 Billion shares a day. A Stock like Tesla having a market cap bigger than GM
Ford
BMW
Toyota
Honda
Daimler
Ferrari
Nissan
Subaru
Lyft
Autozone
Harley-Davidson
Volkswagen
OíReilly Automotive
Mazda
Kia Motors
Aston Martin Combined?! WTH

Add to that-

Sustainability?

% of Total Profits Coming from the Largest 100 Companies*

2020: 90%
2017: 84%
1997: 52%
1977: 48%

*U.S. publicly traded corporations, Wall St. Journal data.

Crazy shit!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 02:28:54 PM by soccerluvof4 »

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4510 on: February 12, 2021, 04:06:44 PM »
I agree its nuts.

But I guess thats what the market does from time to time and there is no rational explanation.

In retirement I was running at about 72/28 (stocks/bands and cash)... I should probably get a little more conservative perhaps.


BlueHouse

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4511 on: February 12, 2021, 04:41:29 PM »

I was at 67/33 so instead of rebalancing I took out about my next 6 months of withdrawals out for the year. If it keeps running I wont be taking out and if it drops to a buyable spot I have extra cash to buy back. There is now 4 Trillion on the sidelines and more stimulus coming and great earnings reported so one would think though bumpy we could , maybe, perhaps, but who knows see some more upside...
@soccerluvof4
do you mind if I ask a few details about this transaction?  I'm new to drawing down instead of saving and I haven't figured out my strategy yet.  When you took 6 months of withdrawals out, did you remove from the account?  or simply put into a cash or money market?  Was this from a 401K or taxable account?  Thanks for your help.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4512 on: February 12, 2021, 04:44:31 PM »
While its nice to see the portfolio rise , there are so many components of the market that are just baffling to me. And more each day. Like a 2.5$ stock trading 2.5 Billion shares a day. A Stock like Tesla having a market cap bigger than GM
Ford
BMW
Toyota
Honda
Daimler
Ferrari
Nissan
Subaru
Lyft
Autozone
Harley-Davidson
Volkswagen
OíReilly Automotive
Mazda
Kia Motors
Aston Martin Combined?! WTH

Add to that-

Sustainability?

% of Total Profits Coming from the Largest 100 Companies*

2020: 90%
2017: 84%
1997: 52%
1977: 48%

*U.S. publicly traded corporations, Wall St. Journal data.

Crazy shit!

Thank index investing and a macro long term momentum trend amplified by millenials aging into the investors class.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4513 on: February 13, 2021, 03:13:44 AM »

I was at 67/33 so instead of rebalancing I took out about my next 6 months of withdrawals out for the year. If it keeps running I wont be taking out and if it drops to a buyable spot I have extra cash to buy back. There is now 4 Trillion on the sidelines and more stimulus coming and great earnings reported so one would think though bumpy we could , maybe, perhaps, but who knows see some more upside...
@soccerluvof4
do you mind if I ask a few details about this transaction?  I'm new to drawing down instead of saving and I haven't figured out my strategy yet.  When you took 6 months of withdrawals out, did you remove from the account?  or simply put into a cash or money market?  Was this from a 401K or taxable account?  Thanks for your help.


Sold shares of VTI from my taxable account and put in Vanguards money market fund. Doesnt make much interest but I have other cash in CD's maturing etc.. So I will prioritize living off this money for now. I am also doing remodeling on my house so if the market waddles up I will be more ambitious about getting stuff done ahead of schedule as well

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4514 on: February 13, 2021, 03:24:53 AM »
I agree its nuts.

But I guess thats what the market does from time to time and there is no rational explanation.

In retirement I was running at about 72/28 (stocks/bands and cash)... I should probably get a little more conservative perhaps.



Yea , where all in different places in life with different demands, expenses, desires etc. and nobody knows what the market will do especially with all the cash on the sidelines and the appetite for stocks right now. In my position I would prefer to ere on the side of caution a bit but if i was younger I would just leave things as they were most likely. It just feels to me were at a point alot of people are trying to guess the top and also we need a correction and not that it needs to be extensive or Like last march but healthy and we can move higher. But who knows.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4515 on: February 13, 2021, 08:53:18 AM »
We're up over $60,000 in net worth since the start of the year.   

Still boggles my mind.   That's ten years worth of living expenses back when my wife and I got married and we were poor.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4516 on: February 13, 2021, 12:27:40 PM »
We're up over $60,000 in net worth since the start of the year.   

Still boggles my mind.   That's ten years worth of living expenses back when my wife and I got married and we were poor.

It is crazy.  I made ~$7k from my ~20hr per week job over the past two weeks.  If you would have told me I'd have that work situation a couple decades ago I'd have been over the moon.

But yet that pay is a joke compared to the $170k my somewhat boring investments are up over those same 2 weeks.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4517 on: February 13, 2021, 01:42:42 PM »
"It IS Crazy."

All this extra money out there in the stock market.  All this money held by the banks and corporations doing little to nothing.  It does seem crazy.  I've been told it will generate inflation, but I don't know how.  It's not being spent on anything new so can't drive the price of anything up.  Guess I'll smile while it's happening and wait and see.  There's enough bad out there.  Maybe we are entitled to a little good like the share prices going up.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4518 on: February 13, 2021, 06:45:26 PM »
It all seems too.....fiat....or over the rainbow....just waiting for the person behind the curtain to rear its ugly side.  It can't go on this way, its not healthy.   Either markets must correct, inflation (or more likely stagflation) has to set in, or the overall inequality will result in an ever greater tense populous (afterall that's kind of been the progression of the last 10-15 years).

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4519 on: February 13, 2021, 07:36:18 PM »
I have made back the $50k that I funded my DAF with in Dec/Jan.  Mind boggles.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4520 on: February 13, 2021, 08:34:14 PM »
It all seems too.....fiat....or over the rainbow....just waiting for the person behind the curtain to rear its ugly side.  It can't go on this way, its not healthy.   Either markets must correct, inflation (or more likely stagflation) has to set in, or the overall inequality will result in an ever greater tense populous (afterall that's kind of been the progression of the last 10-15 years).

I think the inequality started earlier than that.

 "Inequality steadily increased from around 1979 to 2007, with a small reduction through 2016,[3][14][15] followed by an increase from 2016 to 2018.[16]"

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

Yeh - it's been a good generation.  Maybe the masses are used to it by now and nothing will happen.  You figure Europe had serfs for a thousand years or so.  People were used to it.  Big income inequality.  Human nature doesn't change. 

You guys will eventually figure out the crazy money situation.  Please share it when you do.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4521 on: February 14, 2021, 04:37:15 PM »
Well shit.  Looks like I'm being forced to pull a 48+ hour shift due to an ice storm.   Going in just after midnight tonight and could be on till Wednesday morning.  Makes me consider hanging it up.  I'll miss it when I do.  Some of us feed off being essential.  I was a volunteer fireman at one point.  I'm not sure if that is what I want to return to.  Maybe join a SAR team once retired.

chasesfish

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4522 on: February 15, 2021, 05:59:58 AM »
We are all offered company sponsored health care in retirement if you work till 55. 
Wow, how good a plan & cost is that, And its all or nothing exactly at 55?  I could see that being some serious golden handcuffs at your point in the game and not hating work yet.

If I wasnít hating my corporation and boss, I wouldnít have retired early.  They sucked all the fun and enjoyment out of work with their stupid fuckery.

My co-workers were great (except a couple of them)

I felt a lot of this...and some of it you could replace corporation with industry.

LoanShark

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4523 on: February 15, 2021, 11:08:22 AM »
         Liquid / TNW
12/17 $391k / $911k
12/18 $485k / $1.15M
12/19 $979k / $1.54M
12/20 $1.35M / $1.93M

2/21 $1.55M / $2.14M

Joining this thread and looking forward to the journey to $4M...and Beyond with you guys & gals!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 11:10:49 AM by LoanShark »

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4524 on: February 16, 2021, 08:08:22 AM »
I see big numbers pop up everywhere. Does anyone here feel any asset inflation? It seems to me that, these days, you should not even think about retirement if you don't have a networth of at least $5M.

LoanShark

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4525 on: February 16, 2021, 08:30:06 AM »
I see big numbers pop up everywhere. Does anyone here feel any asset inflation? It seems to me that, these days, you should not even think about retirement if you don't have a networth of at least $5M.

Totally dependent on what your lifestyle cost is; everyone doesn't need $200,000 of annual income in retirement to do what they want / need.

LightTripper

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4526 on: February 16, 2021, 08:35:26 AM »
Asset inflation is something I worry about.  But do I have any reason to think that the present is fundamentally different to any of the past bull runs?  Not really, and ERE has me fairly convinced that a SWR of 3-3.5% should be fairly safe. 

At 3% your $5m would give you $150k a year: well above what the vast majority of people live on.  Even at 2% it would give you $100k.  Even for a couple that feels very comfortable for the vast majority of people, I think? 

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4527 on: February 16, 2021, 11:12:51 AM »
"It seems to me that, these days, you should not even think about retirement if you don't have a networth of at least $5M."

Inflation - My past ramblings have shown I think about that too.

The 4 percent rule tells us we're likely to be OK.  J L Collins has an article on his site where he tells us that when we buy into index funds (or other appropriate investments) that we are buying a piece of the American economy.  So, as the value of stuff becomes inflated, we should expect the value of our piece of the American economy to also rise. 

It seems to be happening.  As the government pumps more money into the economy which may cause inflation, we've seen stock prices rise.  Seems like a natural hedge against inflation.



rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4528 on: February 16, 2021, 03:46:29 PM »
I see big numbers pop up everywhere. Does anyone here feel any asset inflation? It seems to me that, these days, you should not even think about retirement if you don't have a networth of at least $5M.
Iím scared to retire at 46 on 2.7m NW. my 26 year old self is smacking me around left and right. Really, I canít adjust and figure out life on this much money?? My mom lives on social security alone.


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SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4529 on: February 16, 2021, 04:27:12 PM »
Iím scared to retire at 46 on 2.7m NW. my 26 year old self is smacking me around left and right. Really, I canít adjust and figure out life on this much money?? My mom lives on social security alone.

Net worth is fairly useless for that decision.

What's your annual spend and how much income can your stash safely provide you each year?   Do you have a blend of uncorrelated assets?   Can you easily find a job doing "something" for awhile to take pressure off your stash?   

Those are the kinds of questions that make a difference in making a good decision.

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4530 on: February 16, 2021, 06:14:25 PM »
Iím scared to retire at 46 on 2.7m NW. my 26 year old self is smacking me around left and right. Really, I canít adjust and figure out life on this much money?? My mom lives on social security alone.

Net worth is fairly useless for that decision.

What's your annual spend and how much income can your stash safely provide you each year?   Do you have a blend of uncorrelated assets?   Can you easily find a job doing "something" for awhile to take pressure off your stash?   

Those are the kinds of questions that make a difference in making a good decision.
Agreed. Thatís why I do a cash flow analysis to see how retirement ready we are. NW is just a benchmark.

But to my point, surely we can cut expenses enough to live off cash flow funded by 2.7 million? Itís not like itís all invested in antique arts or expensive cars ;-)


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markbike528CBX

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4531 on: February 16, 2021, 06:43:51 PM »
Iím scared to retire at 46 on 2.7m NW. my 26 year old self is smacking me around left and right. Really, I canít adjust and figure out life on this much money?? My mom lives on social security alone.

Net worth is fairly useless for that decision.

What's your annual spend and how much income can your stash safely provide you each year?   Do you have a blend of uncorrelated assets?   Can you easily find a job doing "something" for awhile to take pressure off your stash?   

Those are the kinds of questions that make a difference in making a good decision.
Agreed. Thatís why I do a cash flow analysis to see how retirement ready we are. NW is just a benchmark.

But to my point, surely we can cut expenses enough to live off cash flow funded by 2.7 million? Itís not like itís all invested in antique arts or expensive cars ;-)

redacted spam....

If you are scared now at 2.7, you will remain scared.  Just admit you follow the Suze Ormond "retirement" method, and not even 10M will be enough.  :-)

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4532 on: February 16, 2021, 08:45:13 PM »
Iím scared to retire at 46 on 2.7m NW. my 26 year old self is smacking me around left and right. Really, I canít adjust and figure out life on this much money?? My mom lives on social security alone.

Net worth is fairly useless for that decision.

What's your annual spend and how much income can your stash safely provide you each year?   Do you have a blend of uncorrelated assets?   Can you easily find a job doing "something" for awhile to take pressure off your stash?   

Those are the kinds of questions that make a difference in making a good decision.
Agreed. Thatís why I do a cash flow analysis to see how retirement ready we are. NW is just a benchmark.

But to my point, surely we can cut expenses enough to live off cash flow funded by 2.7 million? Itís not like itís all invested in antique arts or expensive cars ;-)


Surely to Gawd you could!


Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4533 on: February 17, 2021, 05:38:29 AM »
The problem with being wealthy.

I just away at work due to the artic weather event for over 50 hours.  I had the the same underwear, same socks, same everything on for 54 straight hours.  I just showered for the first time since Sunday night.   I'm a backpacker.  None if that bothers me really.  Anyway, I'll be paid over $3000 for that period of work.  I am still motivated making $3000 even though that only about 1/1000 of our net worth.  But, there lies the problem.  With that much money invested, just a slight move in the market can overpower even a nice paycheck.  The market went slightly down by percentage.  That caused my Mint account to show a daily loss greater than my future paycheck with overtime.  Crazy isn't it.  24 hours of straight time and over 26 hours of overtime evaporated from my accounts.  But, as we all know, there could be a far greater increase today or any given day.   Even this overtime packed week, I may not make much more money than our accounts make themselves. 
My tired brain is shutting down.  I'm in the bed finally.

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4534 on: February 17, 2021, 06:36:16 AM »
Iím scared to retire at 46 on 2.7m NW. my 26 year old self is smacking me around left and right. Really, I canít adjust and figure out life on this much money?? My mom lives on social security alone.

Net worth is fairly useless for that decision.

What's your annual spend and how much income can your stash safely provide you each year?   Do you have a blend of uncorrelated assets?   Can you easily find a job doing "something" for awhile to take pressure off your stash?   

Those are the kinds of questions that make a difference in making a good decision.
Agreed. Thatís why I do a cash flow analysis to see how retirement ready we are. NW is just a benchmark.

But to my point, surely we can cut expenses enough to live off cash flow funded by 2.7 million? Itís not like itís all invested in antique arts or expensive cars ;-)

redacted spam....

If you are scared now at 2.7, you will remain scared.  Just admit you follow the Suze Ormond "retirement" method, and not even 10M will be enough.  :-)
We really have a cash flow problem over the next 8 years, which is when I hit 55. Not a NW problem. We only have 80k sitting in cash. Getting to any other money requires me breaking one of the eggs. My backup plan is to take my lump sum pension from a prior job and just take the tax hit, netting me an extra 170k after all taxes including penalty. Between that, my husband working and me getting a coast fire job that would get us through the next 8 years. Because I hate my big Corp job right now.

At 55 my deferred comp starts paying out so thatís why 55 is the magic number.


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Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4535 on: February 17, 2021, 06:53:51 AM »
We really have a cash flow problem over the next 8 years, which is when I hit 55. Not a NW problem. We only have 80k sitting in cash. Getting to any other money requires me breaking one of the eggs. My backup plan is to take my lump sum pension from a prior job and just take the tax hit, netting me an extra 170k after all taxes including penalty. Between that, my husband working and me getting a coast fire job that would get us through the next 8 years. Because I hate my big Corp job right now.

At 55 my deferred comp starts paying out so thatís why 55 is the magic number.
Hmmm, I retired (without a pension) at age 54. DH likes his job and was working toward a sweet Defined Benefit Pension. We just figured out how to live on his income. We haven't had to tap any of our investments. It wasn't particularly difficult, and his pay is modest, by mustachian standards. Of course, that depends on having access to good health care through his employer and combined finances. Since your 'stache is pretty fat, if you could swing it on one income, you might be able to pull the trigger now. These last eight years have been such a gift!

jeroly

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4536 on: February 17, 2021, 06:59:14 AM »
Iím scared to retire at 46 on 2.7m NW. my 26 year old self is smacking me around left and right. Really, I canít adjust and figure out life on this much money?? My mom lives on social security alone.

Net worth is fairly useless for that decision.

What's your annual spend and how much income can your stash safely provide you each year?   Do you have a blend of uncorrelated assets?   Can you easily find a job doing "something" for awhile to take pressure off your stash?   

Those are the kinds of questions that make a difference in making a good decision.
Agreed. Thatís why I do a cash flow analysis to see how retirement ready we are. NW is just a benchmark.

But to my point, surely we can cut expenses enough to live off cash flow funded by 2.7 million? Itís not like itís all invested in antique arts or expensive cars ;-)

redacted spam....

If you are scared now at 2.7, you will remain scared.  Just admit you follow the Suze Ormond "retirement" method, and not even 10M will be enough.  :-)
We really have a cash flow problem over the next 8 years, which is when I hit 55. Not a NW problem. We only have 80k sitting in cash. Getting to any other money requires me breaking one of the eggs. My backup plan is to take my lump sum pension from a prior job and just take the tax hit, netting me an extra 170k after all taxes including penalty. Between that, my husband working and me getting a coast fire job that would get us through the next 8 years. Because I hate my big Corp job right now.

At 55 my deferred comp starts paying out so thatís why 55 is the magic number.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Start doing Roth conversions and you can then access the money you convert after five years. Should make retiring at 52 easy.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4537 on: February 17, 2021, 07:40:16 AM »
......... Getting to any other money requires me breaking one of the eggs. ......
You do realize that assets are there for breaking up into cash, right?
It has been hard for me to break into my taxable VTSAX to fund cash flow, but I've done it. 
I also do a SEPP 72(t).   Withdrawals are still about 3.5%. Paying 0 in federal taxes.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4538 on: February 17, 2021, 07:47:38 AM »
Iím scared to retire at 46 on 2.7m NW. my 26 year old self is smacking me around left and right. Really, I canít adjust and figure out life on this much money?? My mom lives on social security alone.

Net worth is fairly useless for that decision.

What's your annual spend and how much income can your stash safely provide you each year?   Do you have a blend of uncorrelated assets?   Can you easily find a job doing "something" for awhile to take pressure off your stash?   

Those are the kinds of questions that make a difference in making a good decision.
Agreed. Thatís why I do a cash flow analysis to see how retirement ready we are. NW is just a benchmark.

But to my point, surely we can cut expenses enough to live off cash flow funded by 2.7 million? Itís not like itís all invested in antique arts or expensive cars ;-)

redacted spam....

If you are scared now at 2.7, you will remain scared.  Just admit you follow the Suze Ormond "retirement" method, and not even 10M will be enough.  :-)
We really have a cash flow problem over the next 8 years, which is when I hit 55. Not a NW problem. We only have 80k sitting in cash. Getting to any other money requires me breaking one of the eggs. My backup plan is to take my lump sum pension from a prior job and just take the tax hit, netting me an extra 170k after all taxes including penalty. Between that, my husband working and me getting a coast fire job that would get us through the next 8 years. Because I hate my big Corp job right now.

At 55 my deferred comp starts paying out so thatís why 55 is the magic number.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Start doing Roth conversions and you can then access the money you convert after five years. Should make retiring at 52 easy.

Can probably split an IRA in two, do a SEPP on one and Roth conversions on the other and make it work even earlier than 52.  Probably even workable now.

PhrugalPhan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4539 on: February 17, 2021, 08:02:56 AM »
While its nice to see the portfolio rise , there are so many components of the market that are just baffling to me. And more each day. Like a 2.5$ stock trading 2.5 Billion shares a day. A Stock like Tesla having a market cap bigger than GM
Ford
BMW.....
.
.
.
Crazy shit!
I have been following this stock (though not buying any except in index funds) and Tesla is so high AFAIK due to much more than their cars.  Tesla is also building powerwall units, Tesla roofs, and it looks like they may be expanding into Tesla home heating & air systems (using modular versions of technology built for their cars).  And Musk's Boring Company is building tunnels to be used only by electric cars (of which Tesla is the big name).  They are working on getting regulatory approval to build a tunnel from Baltimore to DC for electrics only.  If they can do that demand for Tesla cars are going to go through the roof around here.

I'm not saying to buy this stock, but I am starting to think it may not be as overvalued as it seems to be.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4540 on: February 17, 2021, 10:08:35 AM »
We really have a cash flow problem over the next 8 years, which is when I hit 55. Not a NW problem. We only have 80k sitting in cash.


Presumably you/your partner have reasonably high incomes?   Why not just divert savings into taxable brokerage for a bit?  Then do Roth conversion ladder, 72ts or even take a bit of a tax hit on early withdrawals.  You have a planning problem, not a money problem. 

honeyfill

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4541 on: February 17, 2021, 10:39:26 AM »
While its nice to see the portfolio rise , there are so many components of the market that are just baffling to me. And more each day. Like a 2.5$ stock trading 2.5 Billion shares a day. A Stock like Tesla having a market cap bigger than GM
Ford
BMW.....
.
.
.
Crazy shit!
I have been following this stock (though not buying any except in index funds) and Tesla is so high AFAIK due to much more than their cars.  Tesla is also building powerwall units, Tesla roofs, and it looks like they may be expanding into Tesla home heating & air systems (using modular versions of technology built for their cars).  And Musk's Boring Company is building tunnels to be used only by electric cars (of which Tesla is the big name).  They are working on getting regulatory approval to build a tunnel from Baltimore to DC for electrics only.  If they can do that demand for Tesla cars are going to go through the roof around here.

I'm not saying to buy this stock, but I am starting to think it may not be as overvalued as it seems to be.

Don't forget that Musk is also planning to mine the asteroids.  One asteroid can have a trillion dollars worth of gold, platinum and other minerals. 😉

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4542 on: February 17, 2021, 02:09:06 PM »
Iím scared to retire at 46 on 2.7m NW. my 26 year old self is smacking me around left and right. Really, I canít adjust and figure out life on this much money?? My mom lives on social security alone.

Net worth is fairly useless for that decision.

What's your annual spend and how much income can your stash safely provide you each year?   Do you have a blend of uncorrelated assets?   Can you easily find a job doing "something" for awhile to take pressure off your stash?   

Those are the kinds of questions that make a difference in making a good decision.
Agreed. Thatís why I do a cash flow analysis to see how retirement ready we are. NW is just a benchmark.

But to my point, surely we can cut expenses enough to live off cash flow funded by 2.7 million? Itís not like itís all invested in antique arts or expensive cars ;-)

redacted spam....

If you are scared now at 2.7, you will remain scared.  Just admit you follow the Suze Ormond "retirement" method, and not even 10M will be enough.  :-)
We really have a cash flow problem over the next 8 years, which is when I hit 55. Not a NW problem. We only have 80k sitting in cash. Getting to any other money requires me breaking one of the eggs. My backup plan is to take my lump sum pension from a prior job and just take the tax hit, netting me an extra 170k after all taxes including penalty. Between that, my husband working and me getting a coast fire job that would get us through the next 8 years. Because I hate my big Corp job right now.

At 55 my deferred comp starts paying out so thatís why 55 is the magic number.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For me all the pieces fall into the right places at 55.  Hope to be at 3.5M by then.  It's 862 days.  I've never enjoyed work better than I do now.  Part of that is FU money.  Part is seeing the hard end date and no more moving of the goal posts.  Part of it's like a graduation, getting the benefits I've worked for.  A major portion is Covid changes.  The past year things became much more streamlined and practical.   The corporate bullshit has been greatly reduced and we just focus on the job.  I come to really appreciate the quality of some of the people I work with.  Now my quest will be to replicate a community of peers that I spend my retirement with. I really don't like most people.  I like almost everyone in this thread.  You are all get shit done sucessful people. 

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4543 on: February 17, 2021, 04:12:29 PM »
We really have a cash flow problem over the next 8 years, which is when I hit 55. Not a NW problem. We only have 80k sitting in cash.


Presumably you/your partner have reasonably high incomes?   Why not just divert savings into taxable brokerage for a bit?  Then do Roth conversion ladder, 72ts or even take a bit of a tax hit on early withdrawals.  You have a planning problem, not a money problem.
Def a planning prob. I analyzed many ways to tap our nest egg. All have been suggested here. I guess for now Ive settled on working crappy job as long as I can between now and 50 and save as much after tax money as I can. And Iíll decide once the crappy ride is over the best way at that point to tap our eggs.

Cause once I leave this job I think my high income, big bonus days are over.


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2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4544 on: February 18, 2021, 03:20:21 AM »
I was reading the thread on loneliness after geoarbitrage elsewhere in this forum. I just feel glad that I can comfortably afford to stay where I am and that I don't have to move. After more than twenty years in the same house, we have finally fixed all the main problems. Our house is manageably sized. I like my neighbors and the neighborhood in general. I have absolutely no desire to move to a warmer climate. I don't need to live on a waterfront property. A big airport (Newark) is just half an hour's drive away. Medical care is good and we have three large hospitals nearby. ACA options are pretty good.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4545 on: February 18, 2021, 07:37:21 AM »
I was reading the thread on loneliness after geoarbitrage elsewhere in this forum. I just feel glad that I can comfortably afford to stay where I am and that I don't have to move. After more than twenty years in the same house, we have finally fixed all the main problems. Our house is manageably sized. I like my neighbors and the neighborhood in general. I have absolutely no desire to move to a warmer climate. I don't need to live on a waterfront property. A big airport (Newark) is just half an hour's drive away. Medical care is good and we have three large hospitals nearby. ACA options are pretty good.

I'm a bit more rural but feel much the same way.  And though Jan thru Mar is tough for me in PA (Originally a Southerner), the other 9 months of the year I consider amazing and enjoy the seasons (I've lived in plenty of places so hot & humid I couldn't stand to be outside July & August, which really sucks with kids off of school then).  To get a more constant nice climate we'd lose the seasons and prob have to leave the East Coast, where we just have to the leave too many friends & family we dont want to be that far from.  And its really really hard to put a price on good neighbors and a safe neighborhood.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4546 on: February 19, 2021, 03:17:40 AM »
While its nice to see the portfolio rise , there are so many components of the market that are just baffling to me. And more each day. Like a 2.5$ stock trading 2.5 Billion shares a day. A Stock like Tesla having a market cap bigger than GM
Ford
BMW.....
.
.
.
Crazy shit!
I have been following this stock (though not buying any except in index funds) and Tesla is so high AFAIK due to much more than their cars.  Tesla is also building powerwall units, Tesla roofs, and it looks like they may be expanding into Tesla home heating & air systems (using modular versions of technology built for their cars).  And Musk's Boring Company is building tunnels to be used only by electric cars (of which Tesla is the big name).  They are working on getting regulatory approval to build a tunnel from Baltimore to DC for electrics only.  If they can do that demand for Tesla cars are going to go through the roof around here.

I'm not saying to buy this stock, but I am starting to think it may not be as overvalued as it seems to be.

Don't forget that Musk is also planning to mine the asteroids.  One asteroid can have a trillion dollars worth of gold, platinum and other minerals. 😉


I am of the opinion Tesla is just a crazy Cult stock. Its ranked 16 out of 32 auto manufactures in customer satisfaction by consumer reports. Add to that every company on the planet now is going to be building EV's that's going to hurt. What happened in Texas this week also showed that one charge for a Tesla would have cost 900$(Obviously a Texas Problem but still). There on board computer system unlike other cars when there is an issue you cant drive the car and the just recalled 150k cars. I am not a bear of Tesla but if I was a stock trader even though up till late shorts got killed,  I would be shorting it vs buying it. I think Elon will go down as a great Idealist and innovator but unless he focuses on a smaller amount of things, he might (not saying for sure) a lot of problems ahead. There is nothing that makes sense about the stock and while that can be said about a lot of stocks this one stands out to me the most. I luv the guy he is entertaining and is off the wall but again that to makes me stay away from it separate as you say the ownership in my index funds.

Tesla likes Bitcoin vs. cash, but what about vs. CapEx? Ė At the Open

Elon Musk ďessentiallyĒ went long Bitcoin and short Tesla when he invested $1.5B of his companyís cash in the cryptocurrency, analysts at DataTrek Research postulated this week.

The Tesla founder came out on Twitter last night playing down the idea heís a crypto evangelist, but asserting that Bitcoin is ďsimply a less dumb form of liquidity than cash.Ē

Bitcoin (BTC-USD) is hitting new all-time highs this morning and currently up to nearly $52.7K. Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) is up 1% in premarket trading.

But while Musk favors Bitcoin over the greenback, is the $1.5B investment also an indication itís favorable to investing more to make electric vehicles?

DataTrek looked at the move from three perspectives using standard corporate finance theory (referring to Bitcoin throughout at ďBĒ to avoid a big span filter trap, they say).

First is reinvestment rates and whether Bitcoin has a higher rate of return than selling more cars.

ďAfter all, $1.5 bn is enough to build the better part of a new EV assembly plant,Ē they write.

DataTrek acknowledges that with $19.4B at the end of 2020 that may not be a problem, but "car companies burn a lot of cash during downturns. That did not happen in 2020 because of some unique factors, but it could happen in the future. In fact, I can guarantee you it will.Ē

Second, a conglomerate is unnecessary as investors can replicate those investments themselves and markets wonít pay a premium if sub-par businesses eat up free cash flow.

Any ďTesla shareholder who wanted to own 'B' could have created that 2-security portfolio without Musk buying the asset for the company. His decision therefore adds no value on its own to TSLAís shares.Ē

The third aspect, more positive, is that Musk needs to keep his visionary story in high gear. He ďis very plugged in to the highest echelons of the global financial systemĒ and doesnít have the luxury of missing Big Tech like Warren Buffett or handing the reins to someone, as happened at Google.

ďSure, he could have kept TSLAís treasury cash in, well, 'cash'. But that does nothing for his brand, and thatís the most important thing to the stockís valuation.Ē

The final takeaways from DataTrek are that TSLA is 1.8% of the S&P 500, so its capital allocation means more to the index than JPMorgan Chase (NYSE:JPM), 1.3%, or Disney (NYSE:DIS), 1%.

And when ďa company signals the compounding machine is full (i.e., canít use all its cash), valuations usually suffer.Ē
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 07:34:24 AM by soccerluvof4 »

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4547 on: February 19, 2021, 07:47:33 AM »
The thing is I think Tesla is aiming to be a power company, a transportation company, and an exploration company. If you had a solar roof and a power wall on Texas to go with your Tesla, you were fine during the storm. No one reported on that though because it wasnít cool news.

We found out during our power outage for a day that having redundancies and overlap is a good thing. Being rich during a power outage is certainly easier than being poor. We didnít fly to Cancun or anything, but we had gas/electric/solar/propane options available to us. Other neighbors needed support. Heck, we used our Tesla as a movie theater that night and it was cozy warm.

I donít know that the current valuation is supported (and we only have 1/4 of our prior position), but itís not just cars. I can also tell you that the 3 year old Tesla still seems light years ahead of the 3 year old Pathfinder because it keeps getting updates just like an Apple phone. With a solar roof, you have your own power plant, to power your transportation. Is that worth a 30K-40K cost now? Itís like getting a fixed rate mortgage as an inflation hedge against future power price increase. Somewhere like CA I think it makes a ton of sense. Alaska, not so much.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4548 on: February 19, 2021, 07:59:42 AM »

I am of the opinion Tesla is just a crazy Cult stock.


I think Elon will go down as a great Idealist and innovator but unless he focuses on a smaller amount of things, he might (not saying for sure) a lot of problems ahead.


Tesla likes Bitcoin vs. cash, but what about vs. CapEx? Ė At the Open



100% its a crazy cult .  Valuation makes no sense but wouldn't bet against it.   as said before thank the combo of indexing with mass momentum investing with millenials aging into the investment class. 

Not to mention i hate that it gets a green pass bc the awfulness of mining lithium (not just tesla i know but other users aren't green companies) but it occurs in isolated impoverished areas so nobody cares. And then will there be enough lithium to meet these EV growth expectations
 
 

I like that Musk is crazy and all over the place.  He is using his capital and other private capital (augmented with tax credits) to do some innovative crap, no different than other wealthy people of the past...whether hospitals, museums, whatever....vast wealth has in the past resulted in things for the greater good.   Just not in my investing zone in big way

Bitcoin is only like 0.2% of its market cap, not a big deal especially seeing that its up so much in such short order. Bitcoin makes no sense to me and has crazy inflatedike Tesla...again see comment above.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 08:13:23 AM by tooqk4u22 »

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4549 on: February 19, 2021, 10:30:52 AM »
The thing is I think Tesla is aiming to be a power company, a transportation company, and an exploration company. If you had a solar roof and a power wall on Texas to go with your Tesla, you were fine during the storm. No one reported on that though because it wasnít cool news.

We found out during our power outage for a day that having redundancies and overlap is a good thing. Being rich during a power outage is certainly easier than being poor. We didnít fly to Cancun or anything, but we had gas/electric/solar/propane options available to us. Other neighbors needed support. Heck, we used our Tesla as a movie theater that night and it was cozy warm.

I donít know that the current valuation is supported (and we only have 1/4 of our prior position), but itís not just cars. I can also tell you that the 3 year old Tesla still seems light years ahead of the 3 year old Pathfinder because it keeps getting updates just like an Apple phone. With a solar roof, you have your own power plant, to power your transportation. Is that worth a 30K-40K cost now? Itís like getting a fixed rate mortgage as an inflation hedge against future power price increase. Somewhere like CA I think it makes a ton of sense. Alaska, not so much.

One of the reasons I'm working a bit longer is because I want some cool energy independence systems.  I want solar panels, powerwalls and a Cybertruck.  I also want a 1000 gallon propane tank buried on-site that will run a generator for at least a week if needed.  I like my back-ups to have back-ups.