Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 854811 times)

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4350 on: January 05, 2021, 03:38:32 PM »

I get it.  I'm just always shocked at how high property taxes are out there.  :-)

No kidding - in the "2020 Spending" thread, I saw one person posting about their annual budget which is less than our property tax.  Mind you, we are in a "medium" priced area by the standards of north eastern NJ. A couple of towns over, the property taxes can be as high as $30k on a $1.5M house.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4351 on: January 05, 2021, 03:59:21 PM »

I get it.  I'm just always shocked at how high property taxes are out there.  :-)

No kidding - in the "2020 Spending" thread, I saw one person posting about their annual budget which is less than our property tax.  Mind you, we are in a "medium" priced area by the standards of north eastern NJ. A couple of towns over, the property taxes can be as high as $30k on a $1.5M house.

Our property taxes are higher than that. It's crazy in the bay area. When we move, it will largely be due to not wanting to fund our property taxes in our retirement budget.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4352 on: January 05, 2021, 04:44:15 PM »
Finished the year at roughly 2,453,000 not including a 800k paid for house total 3,253,000 Round numbers up from a year and a month  ago 2,600,000 with a 345k house totaling 2,945,000.  Being fire'd and numbers going up is a bonus for sure. Plus updated all our paid for cars. Withdrawal rate due to pandemic for non house improvement items was down almost a full percentage point as well.
Dude-get the painted cabinets. If the house is $800....the extra $1K for paint is so worth your time.
I thank you - your wife thanks you.  Your house thanks you.  I should make you hand paint one just to experience the utter joy (not) of painting and then comparing the quality of your work to the quality of their work...for the $50 per cabinet difference.  Your house is really coming along!  Post-COVID party at the soccerluv house.

Haha. I did order them. Due date January  31st.

Fingers crossed it’s an accurate delivery, unlike my stove which was ordered in July and came in December.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4353 on: January 06, 2021, 03:18:30 AM »
Finished the year at roughly 2,453,000 not including a 800k paid for house total 3,253,000 Round numbers up from a year and a month  ago 2,600,000 with a 345k house totaling 2,945,000.  Being fire'd and numbers going up is a bonus for sure. Plus updated all our paid for cars. Withdrawal rate due to pandemic for non house improvement items was down almost a full percentage point as well.
Dude-get the painted cabinets. If the house is $800....the extra $1K for paint is so worth your time.
I thank you - your wife thanks you.  Your house thanks you.  I should make you hand paint one just to experience the utter joy (not) of painting and then comparing the quality of your work to the quality of their work...for the $50 per cabinet difference.  Your house is really coming along!  Post-COVID party at the soccerluv house.

Haha. I did order them. Due date January  31st.

Fingers crossed it’s an accurate delivery, unlike my stove which was ordered in July and came in December.




Yeah that is always the thing to worry about. That or come all damaged but what are you going to do. I have so many other projects to do that if it comes late or some damage I will just keep going! haha.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4354 on: January 06, 2021, 06:10:53 AM »

I get it.  I'm just always shocked at how high property taxes are out there.  :-)

No kidding - in the "2020 Spending" thread, I saw one person posting about their annual budget which is less than our property tax.  Mind you, we are in a "medium" priced area by the standards of north eastern NJ. A couple of towns over, the property taxes can be as high as $30k on a $1.5M house.

Our property taxes are higher than that. It's crazy in the bay area. When we move, it will largely be due to not wanting to fund our property taxes in our retirement budget.


Yeah, but if your taxes in the bay area are greater than $30k then you are probably in a $3mil+ house.  You make big bucks and many others there do to, and that's great and is reflected in housing values. Property taxes in CA are actually pretty reasonable compared to the rest of the country (Not income taxes though).   

Where I am (NJ), your $3mil+ house would have taxes of $90k+.   Couple friends live in $750k houses and taxes are $25k, which floors me and I complain about mine.  Best of all is we have an income tax structure similar to CA - NJ prides itself in being in trying to be in the top 5 for all taxes with a goal of being 1 or 2 in each hahaha with the added benefit of having no real economic activity.   :(

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4355 on: January 06, 2021, 09:02:56 AM »

I get it.  I'm just always shocked at how high property taxes are out there.  :-)

No kidding - in the "2020 Spending" thread, I saw one person posting about their annual budget which is less than our property tax.  Mind you, we are in a "medium" priced area by the standards of north eastern NJ. A couple of towns over, the property taxes can be as high as $30k on a $1.5M house.

Our property taxes are higher than that. It's crazy in the bay area. When we move, it will largely be due to not wanting to fund our property taxes in our retirement budget.


Yeah, but if your taxes in the bay area are greater than $30k then you are probably in a $3mil+ house.  You make big bucks and many others there do to, and that's great and is reflected in housing values. Property taxes in CA are actually pretty reasonable compared to the rest of the country (Not income taxes though).   

Where I am (NJ), your $3mil+ house would have taxes of $90k+.   Couple friends live in $750k houses and taxes are $25k, which floors me and I complain about mine.  Best of all is we have an income tax structure similar to CA - NJ prides itself in being in trying to be in the top 5 for all taxes with a goal of being 1 or 2 in each hahaha with the added benefit of having no real economic activity.   :(

Property taxes are largely tied to purchase price, not assessed value in our area. So, below $3M+ for purchase price (although, yes to assessed value). It's not that we can't afford it, or I don't understand the tax basis - it's that I have no desire to fund this much of my retirement budget into property taxes. We don't need to be in this particular area when our kids are out of school (~4 years) & then we'll buy a "cheap" $1m house, with a much lower tax base.

I'm very curious to see what will happen with some of the WFH changes will do to the market. So far, it's made houses in more suburban neighborhoods increase in value quite a bit due to COVID & reduced commute time. That might even spread out further, as people are willing to live further away (fewer commute days), or there might be drops as fewer people stay in the area overall.

GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4356 on: January 06, 2021, 09:28:00 AM »
Lost 24K on paper day one of trading in 2021.  Can we have 2020 back?




This morning is looking quite good.  Especially if you've got some solar.  :)

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4357 on: January 06, 2021, 01:03:37 PM »
Lost 24K on paper day one of trading in 2021.  Can we have 2020 back?




This morning is looking quite good.  Especially if you've got some solar.  :)

Still want solar and batteries at my Florida house one day.

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4358 on: January 06, 2021, 02:41:37 PM »

I get it.  I'm just always shocked at how high property taxes are out there.  :-)

No kidding - in the "2020 Spending" thread, I saw one person posting about their annual budget which is less than our property tax.  Mind you, we are in a "medium" priced area by the standards of north eastern NJ. A couple of towns over, the property taxes can be as high as $30k on a $1.5M house.

Our property taxes are higher than that. It's crazy in the bay area. When we move, it will largely be due to not wanting to fund our property taxes in our retirement budget.


Yeah, but if your taxes in the bay area are greater than $30k then you are probably in a $3mil+ house.  You make big bucks and many others there do to, and that's great and is reflected in housing values. Property taxes in CA are actually pretty reasonable compared to the rest of the country (Not income taxes though).   

Where I am (NJ), your $3mil+ house would have taxes of $90k+.   Couple friends live in $750k houses and taxes are $25k, which floors me and I complain about mine.  Best of all is we have an income tax structure similar to CA - NJ prides itself in being in trying to be in the top 5 for all taxes with a goal of being 1 or 2 in each hahaha with the added benefit of having no real economic activity.   :(

Property taxes are largely tied to purchase price, not assessed value in our area. So, below $3M+ for purchase price (although, yes to assessed value). It's not that we can't afford it, or I don't understand the tax basis - it's that I have no desire to fund this much of my retirement budget into property taxes. We don't need to be in this particular area when our kids are out of school (~4 years) & then we'll buy a "cheap" $1m house, with a much lower tax base.

I'm very curious to see what will happen with some of the WFH changes will do to the market. So far, it's made houses in more suburban neighborhoods increase in value quite a bit due to COVID & reduced commute time. That might even spread out further, as people are willing to live further away (fewer commute days), or there might be drops as fewer people stay in the area overall.
Come be my neighbor in Santa Rosa?  Airport shuttle leaves from town to SF, and a decent small airport can get you to short hops.  Fire insurance payments ending recently means there are some reasonable (by CA standards) lots coming up. 

Our retirement strategy originally included a 2 BR condo in Marin along with a summer lake house in IL.  We funded mother's condo in mid 2000, but she was able to use her 1970's tax basis for it  after my father died.  It's appreciated a lot, but the taxes are low. Now DH wants a "real" house with a view. So it's build a house with an ADU for the elderly family members to live in and they can roll their tax basis into the house. Family estate planning for the future. It's a pipe dream right now to build, but we'll see. My grandmother has a $900K ish house with taxes under $500 per year. The new rules on inheritance mean you have to actually live in the house you receive-so we are making sure that the house we inherit is actually one we want to live in ourselves. My mom wants to live in a house again too, but not too big of a house.  It helps in CA to have family members who stay put in one location a LONG time. Income tax is a WHOLE other subject.

GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4359 on: January 07, 2021, 10:33:29 AM »
I've already gained more this week, perhaps this morning, than we'll spend this year.  Trying to wrap my head around the numbers is numbing. 


I think I'll take the dog for a walk to clear my mind. 








SparkyPeanut

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4360 on: January 07, 2021, 11:09:31 AM »
That's amazing GreenEggs.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4361 on: January 07, 2021, 11:32:52 AM »
I've already gained more this week, perhaps this morning, than we'll spend this year.  Trying to wrap my head around the numbers is numbing. 


I think I'll take the dog for a walk to clear my mind.

At the risk of being a Top is In kind of pal, it really is absurd right now. 

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4362 on: January 07, 2021, 12:33:35 PM »
@couponvan - I like Santa Rosa, and would consider it. We'd prefer somewhere a bit more coastal, with cooler temperatures, but are open to ideas. Income tax... ha, yeah, entirely different conversation. None of my family is in CA, so we have no inheritance housing issues to be worried about.

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4363 on: January 07, 2021, 12:39:59 PM »
@couponvan - I like Santa Rosa, and would consider it. We'd prefer somewhere a bit more coastal, with cooler temperatures, but are open to ideas. Income tax... ha, yeah, entirely different conversation. None of my family is in CA, so we have no inheritance housing issues to be worried about.

There are plenty of decent coastal opportunities, but of course they cost more I think. Yeah income taxes in CA are rough.  We "thought" we had the inheritance housing covered, but of course they like to change the rules on us once we're close to actually benefitting from them.

farmecologist

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4364 on: January 07, 2021, 01:16:26 PM »

I get it.  I'm just always shocked at how high property taxes are out there.  :-)

No kidding - in the "2020 Spending" thread, I saw one person posting about their annual budget which is less than our property tax.  Mind you, we are in a "medium" priced area by the standards of north eastern NJ. A couple of towns over, the property taxes can be as high as $30k on a $1.5M house.

Our property taxes are higher than that. It's crazy in the bay area. When we move, it will largely be due to not wanting to fund our property taxes in our retirement budget.


Yeah, but if your taxes in the bay area are greater than $30k then you are probably in a $3mil+ house.  You make big bucks and many others there do to, and that's great and is reflected in housing values. Property taxes in CA are actually pretty reasonable compared to the rest of the country (Not income taxes though).   

Where I am (NJ), your $3mil+ house would have taxes of $90k+.   Couple friends live in $750k houses and taxes are $25k, which floors me and I complain about mine.  Best of all is we have an income tax structure similar to CA - NJ prides itself in being in trying to be in the top 5 for all taxes with a goal of being 1 or 2 in each hahaha with the added benefit of having no real economic activity.   :(

Property taxes are largely tied to purchase price, not assessed value in our area. So, below $3M+ for purchase price (although, yes to assessed value). It's not that we can't afford it, or I don't understand the tax basis - it's that I have no desire to fund this much of my retirement budget into property taxes. We don't need to be in this particular area when our kids are out of school (~4 years) & then we'll buy a "cheap" $1m house, with a much lower tax base.

I'm very curious to see what will happen with some of the WFH changes will do to the market. So far, it's made houses in more suburban neighborhoods increase in value quite a bit due to COVID & reduced commute time. That might even spread out further, as people are willing to live further away (fewer commute days), or there might be drops as fewer people stay in the area overall.

For the record, we live in the Midwest ( Minnesota ), have a 1 acre lot, the house is worth $330K or so...and our taxes are under 6K.  We built the house a few years back for 180K...and we thought that was a lot back then!  Real estate has gone nuts...even around here.


Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4365 on: January 07, 2021, 02:13:46 PM »
I've already gained more this week, perhaps this morning, than we'll spend this year.  Trying to wrap my head around the numbers is numbing. 


I think I'll take the dog for a walk to clear my mind.

At the risk of being a Top is In kind of pal, it really is absurd right now.

The Nasdaq is up over 300.  All is good for now.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4366 on: January 07, 2021, 04:16:34 PM »

I get it.  I'm just always shocked at how high property taxes are out there.  :-)

No kidding - in the "2020 Spending" thread, I saw one person posting about their annual budget which is less than our property tax.  Mind you, we are in a "medium" priced area by the standards of north eastern NJ. A couple of towns over, the property taxes can be as high as $30k on a $1.5M house.

Our property taxes are higher than that. It's crazy in the bay area. When we move, it will largely be due to not wanting to fund our property taxes in our retirement budget.


Yeah, but if your taxes in the bay area are greater than $30k then you are probably in a $3mil+ house.  You make big bucks and many others there do to, and that's great and is reflected in housing values. Property taxes in CA are actually pretty reasonable compared to the rest of the country (Not income taxes though).   

Where I am (NJ), your $3mil+ house would have taxes of $90k+.   Couple friends live in $750k houses and taxes are $25k, which floors me and I complain about mine.  Best of all is we have an income tax structure similar to CA - NJ prides itself in being in trying to be in the top 5 for all taxes with a goal of being 1 or 2 in each hahaha with the added benefit of having no real economic activity.   :(

Property taxes are largely tied to purchase price, not assessed value in our area. So, below $3M+ for purchase price (although, yes to assessed value). It's not that we can't afford it, or I don't understand the tax basis - it's that I have no desire to fund this much of my retirement budget into property taxes. We don't need to be in this particular area when our kids are out of school (~4 years) & then we'll buy a "cheap" $1m house, with a much lower tax base.

I'm very curious to see what will happen with some of the WFH changes will do to the market. So far, it's made houses in more suburban neighborhoods increase in value quite a bit due to COVID & reduced commute time. That might even spread out further, as people are willing to live further away (fewer commute days), or there might be drops as fewer people stay in the area overall.

For the record, we live in the Midwest ( Minnesota ), have a 1 acre lot, the house is worth $330K or so...and our taxes are under 6K.  We built the house a few years back for 180K...and we thought that was a lot back then!  Real estate has gone nuts...even around here.

Real Estate in California has definitely gone nuts.  Our area posted gains of 15% year over year, for single family homes.   Whew... It's heading for the moon.  Our property taxes are lower here than some investment areas we researched, such as Ohio.   Their taxes were almost double ours. 

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4367 on: January 07, 2021, 06:42:47 PM »
I've already gained more this week, perhaps this morning, than we'll spend this year.  Trying to wrap my head around the numbers is numbing. 


I think I'll take the dog for a walk to clear my mind.

Wow.  The one that blows me away is the realization I'm up almost 10 years of spending since the March low.  A freakin decade of expenses for the entire family. And of course that was after an initial, almost immediate, drop of 6 years worth before that bounce back.  I had already reduced risk last year as I was hitting FI, but its still quite a bit of whiplash...

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4368 on: January 08, 2021, 02:05:32 AM »
I live in Wisconsin on a very desired Lake. House is 800k and taxes are 6300$ about 3 miles from me on another lake my takes would of been 15k for the same house in the same county. Not sure how they do it in other states but here each town/village does there own tax rate. That makes our Lake more desirable.  and since I have been here not one property has been for sale. On the other lakes they always are. 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 10:43:01 AM by soccerluvof4 »

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4369 on: January 08, 2021, 04:31:48 AM »
I live in Wisconsin on a very desired like. House is 800k and taxes are 6300$ about 3 miles from me on another lake my takes would of been 15k for the same house in the same county. Not sure how they do it in other states but here each town/village does there own tax rate. That makes our Lake more desirable.  and since I have been here not one property has been for sale. On the other lakes they always are.

Ours are a combination of county and city here in Michigan.  Detroit due to its shrinking tax base has insanity high property taxes, at least in the high end neighborhoods like 10k on a 500k property where in the suburbs it’s 6k.  Like CA, our rates are capped yearly based on purchase price unless significant change occurs that allows them to change basis, think addition.  Mine on a 280k purchased house are $4,400.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4370 on: January 08, 2021, 10:12:25 AM »
I suppose I'll join this thread.  Surpassed 2M in September.  Sitting at just under 2.3M end of last quarter.  I feel like I may be back in the previous thread after the next correction.  Anyway, I'm here for now.  If I ever actually make it to 4M, it will likely be a long time down the road.  Planning on retiring in the next 3 years, at which time growth will become much slower.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4371 on: January 08, 2021, 05:12:06 PM »
I joined the forums right at the end of 2019, and meant to post at the end of 2020 but missed my anniversary.

After going over and back of the $2M mark at the beginning of 2020, the rest of that ridiculous year has pushed me to $2.37M TNW as of Dec 31, 2020.  I never would have believed this was possible with the world shutting down around us and my wife no longer working, but here we are.  I can't expect another year like this again, but a couple more years of work and anything >0% market growth should land us on our number.  We still own way too much house, but that might change this year with more remote work ahead...

I hope everyone who is lucky enough to find themselves in this thread is spending some time taking care of others in any way they can.  Have a great 2021!

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4372 on: January 09, 2021, 04:00:54 AM »
I suppose I'll join this thread.  Surpassed 2M in September.  Sitting at just under 2.3M end of last quarter.  I feel like I may be back in the previous thread after the next correction.  Anyway, I'm here for now.  If I ever actually make it to 4M, it will likely be a long time down the road.  Planning on retiring in the next 3 years, at which time growth will become much slower.

Welcome aboard - you'll probably make $3M before you realize it :-)

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4373 on: January 09, 2021, 10:51:18 AM »
I suppose I'll join this thread.  Surpassed 2M in September.  Sitting at just under 2.3M end of last quarter.  I feel like I may be back in the previous thread after the next correction.  Anyway, I'm here for now.  If I ever actually make it to 4M, it will likely be a long time down the road.  Planning on retiring in the next 3 years, at which time growth will become much slower.



Welcome Boondogle! Once your in your in is the way I see it. Its not like there are thread Police and many peeps are close anyways so again welcome. Like 2sk22 said you'll probably be at 3M before you know it anyhow


I live in Wisconsin on a very desired like. House is 800k and taxes are 6300$ about 3 miles from me on another lake my takes would of been 15k for the same house in the same county. Not sure how they do it in other states but here each town/village does there own tax rate. That makes our Lake more desirable.  and since I have been here not one property has been for sale. On the other lakes they always are.

Ours are a combination of county and city here in Michigan.  Detroit due to its shrinking tax base has insanity high property taxes, at least in the high end neighborhoods like 10k on a 500k property where in the suburbs it’s 6k.  Like CA, our rates are capped yearly based on purchase price unless significant change occurs that allows them to change basis, think addition.  Mine on a 280k purchased house are $4,400.


I am assuming ours in WI are pretty much like MI. I live almost dead center between Milwaukee and Madison and the taxes in the Cities are nuts. The taxes in the burbs arent bad unless you live on a lake and they went up 300$ this year because of the School system I live in cant get funding through. Went from 80 Million down to 40 Million still couldnt get it passed so finally just asked for an extension on the current operating budget. Kinda sad because the school is very highly rated #2 in the State and people dont realize there property values go up because of the school system and people are moving out here as well because of the schools.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4374 on: January 09, 2021, 12:40:23 PM »
As of close of the markets yesterday, we joined this race for the first time with an aggregate balance of $2.005M across all our savings/retirement/investment accounts.  TNW including home equity is somewhere a little north of $2.4M.

It took us ~18 years to reach $1M LNW, and a little over 4.5 years after that to reach $2M.  Granted the first 18 years included the Dot Com crash and the '07 crash, and the last 4-5 years have been bonkers.

I expect we'll cross back and forth across the $2M mark a number of times over the next couple years.  So I'm going to stay in the $1M-$2M group as well as this one until we reach at least $2.4M...which is almost correction-proof.

Wile E. Coyote

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4375 on: January 09, 2021, 06:06:23 PM »
Not sure if I should be in this thread or not, but here I am.:)

I added up my taxable and retirement accounts, Daughter's 529, and two rental properties today and just squeaked over $2M ($2,000,888 to be precise).  Not sure it will last, but I did want to at least mark the milestone.  People seem to be using only LNW, which I guess would exclude the 529 and rental properties?  I haven't included any equity in my company as that is too speculative at this point.  I doubt that I will ever get to $4M, but I suppose stretch goals never hurt anyone. :-D

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4376 on: January 09, 2021, 06:37:03 PM »
Not sure if I should be in this thread or not, but here I am.:)

I added up my taxable and retirement accounts, Daughter's 529, and two rental properties today and just squeaked over $2M ($2,000,888 to be precise).  Not sure it will last, but I did want to at least mark the milestone.  People seem to be using only LNW, which I guess would exclude the 529 and rental properties?  I haven't included any equity in my company as that is too speculative at this point.  I doubt that I will ever get to $4M, but I suppose stretch goals never hurt anyone. :-D

Congrats!

I'm pretty sure that this thread doesn't have many rules as to whether you qualify or not.  Include/exclude as you see fit seems to be the way of life here.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4377 on: January 09, 2021, 07:30:57 PM »
Not sure if I should be in this thread or not, but here I am.:)

I added up my taxable and retirement accounts, Daughter's 529, and two rental properties today and just squeaked over $2M ($2,000,888 to be precise).  Not sure it will last, but I did want to at least mark the milestone.  People seem to be using only LNW, which I guess would exclude the 529 and rental properties?  I haven't included any equity in my company as that is too speculative at this point.  I doubt that I will ever get to $4M, but I suppose stretch goals never hurt anyone. :-D

Welcome to the thread.   There are no Thread Police lurking around, so settle in. 
  I'm nearly all in Real Estate, with 10+ rental houses,  and hardly any liquid NW to tally up.  There's a few of us outliers in the thread with more real estate than most people.  I think I'm at 90/10 or so, and all the RE went up in double digits this year.   If I chose to cash out I'd be a whole lot richer than last year.   

 I think Net Worth is Net Worth, and if grandma's Dodge is yours to sell, you can count it in.  Most people don't count the little stuff,  though.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 07:36:45 PM by JoJoP »

Wile E. Coyote

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4378 on: January 09, 2021, 08:43:17 PM »
Thanks for the welcomes!!

Not sure if I should be in this thread or not, but here I am.:)

I added up my taxable and retirement accounts, Daughter's 529, and two rental properties today and just squeaked over $2M ($2,000,888 to be precise).  Not sure it will last, but I did want to at least mark the milestone.  People seem to be using only LNW, which I guess would exclude the 529 and rental properties?  I haven't included any equity in my company as that is too speculative at this point.  I doubt that I will ever get to $4M, but I suppose stretch goals never hurt anyone. :-D

Welcome to the thread.   There are no Thread Police lurking around, so settle in. 
  I'm nearly all in Real Estate, with 10+ rental houses,  and hardly any liquid NW to tally up.  There's a few of us outliers in the thread with more real estate than most people.  I think I'm at 90/10 or so, and all the RE went up in double digits this year.   If I chose to cash out I'd be a whole lot richer than last year.   

 I think Net Worth is Net Worth, and if grandma's Dodge is yours to sell, you can count it in.  Most people don't count the little stuff,  though.

Glad to hear there aren’t any hard and fast rules!   I decided to just include items that I consider investments (e.g. no home equity in my principal residence since we will be here for the foreseeable future). We will probably downsize eventually, but I decided not to count that since it’s tied up.   Just including investments.

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M
« Reply #4379 on: January 10, 2021, 01:40:28 AM »
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

Lots of us will be legitimate soon.  We'll have the option of hanging out with those slouches on the 1M to 2M thread till then.  ;)
Don't worry about membership rules.  Yes I called the 1M to 2M crowd slouches.  Was practicing my snob.

This is me from over three years ago.  Not really legit.  Now almost 2.7M with no cheating.  Once you start bouncing around the 2M number the rest comes easy.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 01:42:34 AM by Bateaux »

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4380 on: January 10, 2021, 06:29:55 AM »
I am in the camp of totally counting home equity, it comes down to my housing is an integral part of financial plan like any other part of said financial plan.  How that plays out:

1)  In 2017, I choose to take out a modest mortgage instead of paying cash, the value borrowed instead was invested. 

2)  Growing equity in the house will effect future home decisions allowing me to continue within the rest of my financial plan.  Read:  I might roll all or part the equity into a new home if I sell or take a HELOC but I will not draw down on any other investments nor will I ever again “save up” for a home or down payment.

3). Basically I recognize that my housing choices have both positive and negative opportunity costs within my overall net worth and financial plan.  It are part of said plans overall so it is counted.  OTOH from a “cash flow” perspective it is a cost but not the equity, I it’s expenses are just a “really bad” account fee.

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4381 on: January 10, 2021, 09:35:36 AM »
I am in the camp of totally counting home equity, it comes down to my housing is an integral part of financial plan like any other part of said financial plan.  How that plays out:

1)  In 2017, I choose to take out a modest mortgage instead of paying cash, the value borrowed instead was invested. 

2)  Growing equity in the house will effect future home decisions allowing me to continue within the rest of my financial plan.  Read:  I might roll all or part the equity into a new home if I sell or take a HELOC but I will not draw down on any other investments nor will I ever again “save up” for a home or down payment.

3). Basically I recognize that my housing choices have both positive and negative opportunity costs within my overall net worth and financial plan.  It are part of said plans overall so it is counted.  OTOH from a “cash flow” perspective it is a cost but not the equity, I it’s expenses are just a “really bad” account fee.
I just think more simply NW is NW and shouldn’t really be used to see when you can retire. One needs a household cash flow analysis for that, which your net worth supports. For example if you know you’re going to downsize your house and pocket equity, you would reflect that in the CF analysis.


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JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4382 on: January 10, 2021, 12:25:50 PM »
Exactly!  Net Worth and Cash Flow are different animals. 

 We've got a pretty sizable amount of stuff in the safe deposit box at the bank.   That's among the things I don't bother to count.   Someone mentioned a few pages back that as net worth grows, it's easier to leave off big things.  Presumably because the number still makes us smile with or without every little inclusion.   When you're climbing the mountain, it's comforting to know to know that you COULD sell that second car or precious metal stash, if you had to.   Or that if you include them in your count, you can hit a NW milestone of xxx or XXX.   Now that we're all in this thread, lots of stuff can be dropped off.   We probably have $2-300K in easily sellable crap/mattress money/vintage cars/etc that doesn't get counted.  10 years ago, everything was in the NW tally.  Now, not so much. 

 It's all about finding a balance now--  the enjoyment of a happy, work free, stress free life.   

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4383 on: January 10, 2021, 04:57:38 PM »
Can I include my Peloton in my NW :-)

Sometimes I need a reality check of how far I’ve come from nothing to now. So yesterday I bought a keno lottery ticket (guilty pleasure, and besides, haven’t vacationed) and yesterday we won 2k. I remember winning 1k in vegas 20 years ago and my head exploded. Yesterday I had no reaction except to say “well, now I gotta find time to go to the regional office and redeem it”. Hubby said asked what am I going to do with it and I just said throw in the joint account and it’ll pay the next mortgage payment”.


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Taran Wanderer

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4384 on: January 10, 2021, 05:46:06 PM »
That’s fantastic. Congratulations!

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4385 on: January 11, 2021, 05:57:04 AM »
Can I include my Peloton in my NW :-)

Sometimes I need a reality check of how far I’ve come from nothing to now. So yesterday I bought a keno lottery ticket (guilty pleasure, and besides, haven’t vacationed) and yesterday we won 2k. I remember winning 1k in vegas 20 years ago and my head exploded. Yesterday I had no reaction except to say “well, now I gotta find time to go to the regional office and redeem it”. Hubby said asked what am I going to do with it and I just said throw in the joint account and it’ll pay the next mortgage payment”.


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Uh, can you put it toward your $250/month Peloton subscription?

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4386 on: January 11, 2021, 06:34:00 AM »
Uh, can you put it toward your $250/month Peloton subscription?

Is Peloton really $250 a month?  I have no idea.  If I want to ride a bike, I go get the Cannondale out of the shed and hit the trails.


A word on the $2MM calculation.  In the very first post of this thread it's defined.  It comes down to investments that can be sold any day the market is open and you would have the funds available once trades are settled.  In the $50k, $100k, $500k threads, including home equity and car equity and that 92 Fender Strat makes some sense because it makes people feel good that their net worth is at a certain level.  At $2MM, it's not including these things because now we're looking at what do we have that can be used to cash flow retirement.  I suppose if you've got an RV in the driveway that you intend to live in when you retire and immediately sell the house, then it could make sense.  For me, my $650 fully paid house and 4 paid off cars are not counted and really shouldn't be relied on to cash flow.

Nothing is enforced here.  If you decide to include your priceless 1 of 2 beanie babies, go for it.

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4387 on: January 11, 2021, 06:36:17 AM »
Can I include my Peloton in my NW :-)

Sometimes I need a reality check of how far I’ve come from nothing to now. So yesterday I bought a keno lottery ticket (guilty pleasure, and besides, haven’t vacationed) and yesterday we won 2k. I remember winning 1k in vegas 20 years ago and my head exploded. Yesterday I had no reaction except to say “well, now I gotta find time to go to the regional office and redeem it”. Hubby said asked what am I going to do with it and I just said throw in the joint account and it’ll pay the next mortgage payment”.


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Uh, can you put it toward your $250/month Peloton subscription?
It’s like $45 a month. And they have all kinds of classes, not just biking.


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rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4388 on: January 11, 2021, 06:37:54 AM »
Uh, can you put it toward your $250/month Peloton subscription?

Is Peloton really $250 a month?  I have no idea.  If I want to ride a bike, I go get the Cannondale out of the shed and hit the trails.


A word on the $2MM calculation.  In the very first post of this thread it's defined.  It comes down to investments that can be sold any day the market is open and you would have the funds available once trades are settled.  In the $50k, $100k, $500k threads, including home equity and car equity and that 92 Fender Strat makes some sense because it makes people feel good that their net worth is at a certain level.  At $2MM, it's not including these things because now we're looking at what do we have that can be used to cash flow retirement.  I suppose if you've got an RV in the driveway that you intend to live in when you retire and immediately sell the house, then it could make sense.  For me, my $650 fully paid house and 4 paid off cars are not counted and really shouldn't be relied on to cash flow.

Nothing is enforced here.  If you decide to include your priceless 1 of 2 beanie babies, go for it.
I sold my house the same day it was put on the market in NY last year :-p


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Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4389 on: January 11, 2021, 07:04:22 AM »
Can I include my Peloton in my NW :-)

Sometimes I need a reality check of how far I’ve come from nothing to now. So yesterday I bought a keno lottery ticket (guilty pleasure, and besides, haven’t vacationed) and yesterday we won 2k. I remember winning 1k in vegas 20 years ago and my head exploded. Yesterday I had no reaction except to say “well, now I gotta find time to go to the regional office and redeem it”. Hubby said asked what am I going to do with it and I just said throw in the joint account and it’ll pay the next mortgage payment”.


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Uh, can you put it toward your $250/month Peloton subscription?
It’s like $45 a month. And they have all kinds of classes, not just biking.


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My friend just bought one for her husband after he crashed on his bike and broke his pelvis (On a newly paved road, he hit an unmarked speed bump at speed, just as he was reaching for his water bottle - argh! ). The Peloton was $1800 and the monthly subscription is $250. Perhaps there are different levels? They can totally afford it, but I damn near died when she told me the numbers.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4390 on: January 11, 2021, 07:14:32 AM »
Sounds like she financed part of the bike? The membership is $40/month for unlimited, several triathlon teammates have it.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4391 on: January 11, 2021, 07:47:04 AM »
A word on the $2MM calculation. In the very first post of this thread it's defined.  It comes down to investments that can be sold any day the market is open and you would have the funds available once trades are settled.  In the $50k, $100k, $500k threads, including home equity and car equity and that 92 Fender Strat makes some sense because it makes people feel good that their net worth is at a certain level.  At $2MM, it's not including these things because now we're looking at what do we have that can be used to cash flow retirement.  I suppose if you've got an RV in the driveway that you intend to live in when you retire and immediately sell the house, then it could make sense.  For me, my $650 fully paid house and 4 paid off cars are not counted and really shouldn't be relied on to cash flow.

Nothing is enforced here.  If you decide to include your priceless 1 of 2 beanie babies, go for it.
Your comment cracked me up. We also have four paid-for vehicles sitting in the huge driveway of our paid-for $1.65M house. One of them is a very expensive RV, which we bought lightly used, of course. We have three nice single family home rental properties in a resort area. Since we plan to move into one of them at some point, I absolutely do count the value of our primary home. We "only" have about $1.5M in equities, but DH has a very generous Defined Benefit Pension coming, which will certainly help cash flow our retirement. We also flip and BRRR houses occasionally, so we have a LOT of dry powder in a separate account that's completely liquid. That cash alone is at least 5x our projected annual retirement spend.

I don't count the value of any of the vehicles or the contents of the house. I don't even count the income or equity from the rentals for the purpose of this thread. But once SS kicks in, we will not need to tap into our equities at all for living expenses, so we are solidly in this cohort. Our MPP is going to be what the hell to do with our eventual RMD's.

I agree there is room for some flexibility in the calculation, which is why I don't think people should drop back to previous cohorts every time the market experiences a pullback. The more, the merrier, I say!

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4392 on: January 11, 2021, 07:50:07 AM »
Sounds like she financed part of the bike? The membership is $40/month for unlimited, several triathlon teammates have it.
No financing. I wonder if there's a personal trainer package of some sort. She's my walking partner, so I'll ask her for more details today and report back.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4393 on: January 11, 2021, 10:12:21 AM »
Uh, can you put it toward your $250/month Peloton subscription?

Is Peloton really $250 a month?  I have no idea.  If I want to ride a bike, I go get the Cannondale out of the shed and hit the trails.


A word on the $2MM calculation.  In the very first post of this thread it's defined.  It comes down to investments that can be sold any day the market is open and you would have the funds available once trades are settled.  In the $50k, $100k, $500k threads, including home equity and car equity and that 92 Fender Strat makes some sense because it makes people feel good that their net worth is at a certain level.  At $2MM, it's not including these things because now we're looking at what do we have that can be used to cash flow retirement.  I suppose if you've got an RV in the driveway that you intend to live in when you retire and immediately sell the house, then it could make sense.  For me, my $650 fully paid house and 4 paid off cars are not counted and really shouldn't be relied on to cash flow.

Nothing is enforced here.  If you decide to include your priceless 1 of 2 beanie babies, go for it.

Seriously Car Jack. Let it go.

 I have more than 10 rental houses and they can be sold anytime I want to sell them.  Yes, it takes longer than a few moments hitting the "trade" button on Vanguard but they are liquid and sellable none the less. 
 Cash flow, yes sir.  It's called Rental Income.  Overall the Rental Income exceeds 10% of my cash investment yearly, some are topping 14% ROI.  That's before I count equity.

Here's an example of 1 rental, if I sold it today- The market is very hot.  I'd probably have a check in hand within 60 days or less.




Rental Property Calculator
Result
For the 8 Years Invested
Return (IRR):   19.72% per year
Total Profit when Sold:   $381,947.56
Cash on Cash Return:   231.48%
Capitalization Rate:   10.51%
Total Rental Income:   $182,470.74
Total Expenses:   $31,123.18
Total Net Operating Income:   $151,347.56
     
First Year Income and Expense
    Monthly   Annual
Income:   $1,800.00   $21,600.00
Vacancy (5%):   $90.00   $1,080.00
Property Tax:   $125.00   $1,500.00
Total Insurance:   $66.67   $800.00
Maintenance Cost:   $83.33   $1,000.00
Other Cost:   $16.67   $200.00
Cash Flow:   $1,418.33   $17,020.00
Net Operating Income (NOI):   $1,418.33   $17,020.00

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4394 on: January 11, 2021, 12:45:41 PM »
Uh, can you put it toward your $250/month Peloton subscription?

Is Peloton really $250 a month?  I have no idea.  If I want to ride a bike, I go get the Cannondale out of the shed and hit the trails.


A word on the $2MM calculation.  In the very first post of this thread it's defined.  It comes down to investments that can be sold any day the market is open and you would have the funds available once trades are settled.  In the $50k, $100k, $500k threads, including home equity and car equity and that 92 Fender Strat makes some sense because it makes people feel good that their net worth is at a certain level.  At $2MM, it's not including these things because now we're looking at what do we have that can be used to cash flow retirement.  I suppose if you've got an RV in the driveway that you intend to live in when you retire and immediately sell the house, then it could make sense.  For me, my $650 fully paid house and 4 paid off cars are not counted and really shouldn't be relied on to cash flow.

Nothing is enforced here.  If you decide to include your priceless 1 of 2 beanie babies, go for it.

Seriously Car Jack. Let it go.

 I have more than 10 rental houses and they can be sold anytime I want to sell them.  Yes, it takes longer than a few moments hitting the "trade" button on Vanguard but they are liquid and sellable none the less. 
 Cash flow, yes sir.  It's called Rental Income.  Overall the Rental Income exceeds 10% of my cash investment yearly, some are topping 14% ROI.  That's before I count equity.

Here's an example of 1 rental, if I sold it today- The market is very hot.  I'd probably have a check in hand within 60 days or less.


Rental Property Calculator
Result
For the 8 Years Invested
Return (IRR):   19.72% per year
Total Profit when Sold:   $381,947.56
Cash on Cash Return:   231.48%
Capitalization Rate:   10.51%
Total Rental Income:   $182,470.74
Total Expenses:   $31,123.18
Total Net Operating Income:   $151,347.56
     
First Year Income and Expense
    Monthly   Annual
Income:   $1,800.00   $21,600.00
Vacancy (5%):   $90.00   $1,080.00
Property Tax:   $125.00   $1,500.00
Total Insurance:   $66.67   $800.00
Maintenance Cost:   $83.33   $1,000.00
Other Cost:   $16.67   $200.00
Cash Flow:   $1,418.33   $17,020.00
Net Operating Income (NOI):   $1,418.33   $17,020.00
The bolded to @Car Jack sounds too harsh to my ear. I thought his explanation was fine. Seemed like he was just being helpful and answering someone else's question. I responded to offer another example. Yours is a good one, too, @JoJoP.

We all have it made financially if we're on this thread. We can afford to be understanding of one another.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4395 on: January 11, 2021, 01:53:14 PM »
The bolded to @Car Jack sounds too harsh to my ear. I thought his explanation was fine. Seemed like he was just being helpful and answering someone else's question.

Agreed.  I wondered if maybe there was some festering disagreement on this issue between the two further up thread.

For my part, I prefer to count only investment and savings accounts for eligibility to be in this race.  But it's no skin off my back if someone else counts RE or other traditionally illiquid investments.

farmecologist

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4396 on: January 11, 2021, 02:34:55 PM »
Can I include my Peloton in my NW :-)

Sometimes I need a reality check of how far I’ve come from nothing to now. So yesterday I bought a keno lottery ticket (guilty pleasure, and besides, haven’t vacationed) and yesterday we won 2k. I remember winning 1k in vegas 20 years ago and my head exploded. Yesterday I had no reaction except to say “well, now I gotta find time to go to the regional office and redeem it”. Hubby said asked what am I going to do with it and I just said throw in the joint account and it’ll pay the next mortgage payment”.


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Uh, can you put it toward your $250/month Peloton subscription?
It’s like $45 a month. And they have all kinds of classes, not just biking.


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My friend just bought one for her husband after he crashed on his bike and broke his pelvis (On a newly paved road, he hit an unmarked speed bump at speed, just as he was reaching for his water bottle - argh! ). The Peloton was $1800 and the monthly subscription is $250. Perhaps there are different levels? They can totally afford it, but I damn near died when she told me the numbers.

Yikes!  I'll stick to my AirDyne Pro.   One of the best fitness investments ever ( and no monthly fee ).  I guess I'm not the type that need a class to be motivated.  I do understand some need that though.   It also helps that I have it in my den....and watch a show on the projector screen while I'm using it. :-)



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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4397 on: January 11, 2021, 04:17:19 PM »
For my part, I prefer to count only investment and savings accounts for eligibility to be in this race.  But it's no skin off my back if someone else counts RE or other traditionally illiquid investments.

Around 2013 we started buying rental properties.  Over the next 4 years we bought and fixed up 4 rentals, with a very long pause in the middle.   Investment costs were around $200,000 including renovation costs.   Those properties are now worth around $380,000 and provide an income of $20,000 a year.   Let's round that down to $350,000 to allow for realtor sale commissions.

If I had taken that $200,000 and put it in index funds, it would have taken about 8-9 years to get to that $350,000.

So, even if it takes 1 to 6 months to sell those properties, I was still able to sell it for $350,000 in my pocket 4-5 years FASTER via real estate than I could have sold my stock for the same amount..   

:)   Think about that for a moment. 

And while you're thinking about that, recognize that my real estate was producing $5,000 per year of partially tax-sheltered income that I did NOT have to re-invest to get to that $350,000 valuation, which incidentally would only produce an income of $14,000 a year, NOT $20,000 a year which is what we're getting.   

Recognize also that I bought at the bottom of the market and that appreciation in value is largely due to the renovations we did, not some hot and crazy real estate market.

So, yeah, I'll consider my real estate investments in this total.

Same with the farmland I inherited that folks sharecrop for us.   The land has a value and it could be sold.   It's good farmland and good farmland only comes on the market every few generations  -- so there's a good chance it would sell reasonably fast.   But since we're buy and hold investors, that farmland acts like bonds that produce income that's uncorrelated to the stock or bond market.   If crops are really bad we won't go out of business unlike a corporation that we might have purchased a bond from.   Our share of the income is about $20,000 a year. 

Those two sets of investments produce an income of $40,000 a year, the equivalent of a $1,000,000 stock portfolio.

We've got another property that we purchased and then resold to help family friends set up a real estate business.   We hold a $94,000 mortgage note on a property.   They don't have to pay us anything for 2 years to help establish them, with no accrued interest in the interim.  After that we'll be getting 5% interest plus principal payments.   Hell, even our real estate charity to friends is making us money.  FYI, they are getting 2.25% a month on that investment, or 27% a year for the first 2 years.    It will drop down to 1.5% a month once the mortgage payments kick in, or 18% a year.   

Yeah, you bet we count those investments in our net worth.

If we had to, we could downsize to one of our rental houses and get the 100% equity out of our home as well.   In the meantime it's saving us money compared to renting an inexpensive house.

The original thread-starting post didn't want to include these items.     I disagree for the reasons above.










Bird In Hand

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4398 on: January 11, 2021, 04:57:52 PM »
For my part, I prefer to count only investment and savings accounts for eligibility to be in this race.  But it's no skin off my back if someone else counts RE or other traditionally illiquid investments.

Tl;dr pro-RE post.

Lots of ways to skin a cat, but none off my back! ;)

But seriously, in case I wasn't clear, I don't count my own RE (primary residence equity in my case) for the purposes of this thread.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest if others do so.  I'm not anti-RE at all, and I don't think it's a lesser form of asset compared to stocks or anything else.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4399 on: January 11, 2021, 10:29:21 PM »
Sounds like she financed part of the bike? The membership is $40/month for unlimited, several triathlon teammates have it.
No financing. I wonder if there's a personal trainer package of some sort. She's my walking partner, so I'll ask her for more details today and report back.
Something's not adding up. My friend was vague and I looked at the Peloton website. Nothing matches. I'm going to go with "Not my circus, not my monkey." I'm still shocked, but at least I know they can afford it.

Also, damn it, I decided to actually look at our numbers today. Yeah, it's even higher than I reported upthread. It's amazing how it grows!