Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 860449 times)

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4200 on: December 06, 2020, 01:55:02 PM »
Healthcare is the big one as we have 4 kids between us that are under 26 and are on the current plan. 2 will age out in 3 years but we still have 2 to consider for a while.

For those earning income you might want to have a look at what they would pay on an ACA plan -- my DS is earning too much in his current tech internship to qualify for subsidies, but is only paying around $300/month for a silver PPO plan with relatively low deductible and OOP costs ($500 deductible, $1500 OOP max).  All primary care and generic prescriptions are covered pre-deductible for ridiculously low copays ($5 and $15, IIRC).

The same plan would cost me closer to $1000 without subsidies.  Pays to be a young un!

$1300 for us and thats for a crappy bronze plan with a $7,000 deductible and NO prescription coverage.. At least not until the deductible is met.. what a joke.

Needless to say we "engineer" our income to make sure we get a healthy subsidy.. So we end up paying about $15/month for what is essentially catastrophic insurance and buy drugs from the UK or GoodRX coupons.

Yeah, we have a private plan like that for the 5 of us that is around 1350/mth, from what I can tell a similar plan on the ACA is more like $2k/mth (and maybe my youngest two wouldnt even qualify to be on it with us? I havent really figured that out.)  So for us at least ACA is a joke until I FIRE, at which point it looks like it'll be awesome.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4201 on: December 07, 2020, 06:27:01 AM »
With this morning's update from the market Friday, I noticed on my spread sheet for the first time that my "times spending" number is over 50.  In part of the spread sheet, I list expenses expected in retirement.  Things like health insurance and travel are much, much higher than our current cost.  Back in the investments, I have a simple division of liquid investments over the annual expenses. 

I've loosened the purse strings just a bit.  After selling RSUs yielding $4200 (shares with held for tax), I bought myself a black Friday sale log splitter at my local tractor supply.  I'm amazed at how much work I get done compared to swinging a mawl.  I'm still a cheap bastard and our "extra" car actually had 2 flats back to back.  First one, my son got.  Next one, I got.  I keep pull off tires that are not total garbage and have a $39 manual tire mounting "machine" and a bubble balancer, so I've been wrenching quite a bit.  Since the snow Saturday, we re-assigned cars to my kids so they both have AWD cars with snow tires.  I take out the Fusion with these take off tires only when the roads are clear and dry now. 

Oh.....and my older son bought both of us Mexican Sunday.  :D  Nice to have some turn around on paying for fun food.

So what's that 50 times look like for me?  It's just over $3.1MM.

Mr. Green

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4202 on: December 07, 2020, 08:50:33 AM »
We have just pushed into this club as well. As a person in their... I guess it's late-30's now (sigh) I'm starting to think about drawdown strategies a lot more. If we just keep spending 40-45k a year until we die, projections get pretty outta hand. 15-80 million at my 100th birthday. I'm trying to figure out a good way of raising spending in a manner that keeps the snowball from growing too large, but at the same time balances sequence of returns risk while we're young. This strategy is also aimed at avoiding ridiculous RMDs when we get into our 70s because 2/3s of our liquid assets are currently in Traditional IRAs.

A conservative projection calculating ROI and spending over our lifetimes raises spending to 50k from age 38-40, 60k from 41-45, 75k from 46-60, and 80k from 61-71. That keeps RMDs starting at 72 similar to existing spending at that time. This model also assumes a boost in Roth IRA conversions from spending four years abroad and not having income limited by ACA tax consequences (though I expect the current medical model to change at some point).

It's a fairly complicated dance if you want to play the game as efficiently as possible. Like EscapeVelocity2020 and some others here, my wife has no interest in the nuances. Though perhaps she'd surprise me if I dropped dead tomorrow. Because we're young, I haven't spent as much time planning for survivor finances as I should. We do at least have a will, though that will need updating. With a baby on the way, I really need to take some time over the next eight months and address that.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4203 on: December 07, 2020, 09:41:51 AM »

- SNIP -

I've loosened the purse strings just a bit.  After selling RSUs yielding $4200 (shares with held for tax), I bought myself a black Friday sale log splitter at my local tractor supply.  I'm amazed at how much work I get done compared to swinging a mawl.  I'm still a cheap bastard and our "extra" car actually had 2 flats back to back.  First one, my son got.  Next one, I got.  I keep pull off tires that are not total garbage and have a $39 manual tire mounting "machine" and a bubble balancer, so I've been wrenching quite a bit.  Since the snow Saturday, we re-assigned cars to my kids so they both have AWD cars with snow tires.  I take out the Fusion with these take off tires only when the roads are clear and dry now. 

Oh.....and my older son bought both of us Mexican Sunday.  :D  Nice to have some turn around on paying for fun food.

So what's that 50 times look like for me?  It's just over $3.1MM.

Your back will thank you for supplementing the maul with the splitter.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4204 on: December 07, 2020, 07:02:01 PM »
I just picked up a post hole digger (for my tractor) with a 12"auger for $250..:).

I tend to "splurge" on tools a little now with increasing NW.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4205 on: December 07, 2020, 09:05:27 PM »
It's great to see all the newcomers to the thread.  Welcome!   

Yesterday, I told my daughter, who wants to invest in a rental, "Well, your first million takes the longest."  She sputtered... "FIRST million???" 

I'm not sure exactly how long the first one took us, somewhere about 12-15 years from college graduation/early adulthood. 

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4206 on: December 07, 2020, 11:21:55 PM »
It's great to see all the newcomers to the thread.  Welcome!   

Yesterday, I told my daughter, who wants to invest in a rental, "Well, your first million takes the longest."  She sputtered... "FIRST million???" 

I'm not sure exactly how long the first one took us, somewhere about 12-15 years from college graduation/early adulthood.

Haha, nice.. Did Daughter not realise you had more than 2 mil?

LightTripper

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4207 on: December 08, 2020, 03:09:57 AM »
I've just checked mine.  You can really see the impact of me being over-cautious and not being enough in the market: but I did nonetheless get more into the market over time.  Each time is the rough "increment" from hitting the previous milestone.  It's less neat than many of yours (I kinda plateaued), but nonetheless, it does confirm that things really speed up once you get going: both in terms of earning power (if you start young when your earnings are still increasing) and market returns.  Years are from starting my first permanent job.

0.5m - 8 years
1.0m - 4 years (12 years total to 1m - also bought a house around this point which burned some money in fees/tax/trades)
1.5m - 1.5 years
2.0m - 2 years (16 years total to 2m - pretty quick from 1-2m as my earnings increased and I bought a house/stopped paying rent)
2.5m - 2 years
3.0m - 3 years (21 years total to 3m (thanks to @jeroly below for the correction!): slower than 1-2m due to taking time off *2 for kids, Brexit, being not enough invested overall, and too much of my investments in the FTSE/£ denominated)
3.5m - 1.5 years
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 05:49:29 AM by LightTripper »

jeroly

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4208 on: December 08, 2020, 05:32:40 AM »
I've just checked mine.  You can really see the impact of me being over-cautious and not being enough in the market: but I did nonetheless get more into the market over time.  Each time is the rough "increment" from hitting the previous milestone.  It's less neat than many of yours (I kinda plateaued), but nonetheless, it does confirm that things really speed up once you get going: both in terms of earning power (if you start young when your earnings are still increasing) and market returns.  Years are from starting my first permanent job.

0.5m - 8 years
1.0m - 4 years (12 years total to 1m - also bought a house around this point which burned some money in fees/tax/trades)
1.5m - 1.5 years
2.0m - 2 years (16 years total to 2m)
2.5m - 2 years
3.0m - 3 years (19 years total to 3m: slowed also due to Brexit, being not enough invested overall, but too much in the FTSE/£ denominated)
3.5m - 1.5 years

16 years to 2, two more to 2.5, three more to $3... that's 21 years not 19

LightTripper

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4209 on: December 08, 2020, 05:45:45 AM »
You are quite right - I will fix!  It is 21 years....  It definitely felt more like 21 years than 19 too.... :)

jeroly

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4210 on: December 08, 2020, 06:48:42 AM »
I did a little spreadsheet that examined the effect of income, expenses, and rates of return on time to $2 million overall, and # of years from 0 to $1 million vs. # of years from $1 million ro $2 million.

Assumptions:  Tax rate rises slowly as income rises, maxxes out at 50%, starting at age 22 with $0 saved
Ignoring inflation, looking at real rate of return, income, and letting real spending (not including taxes) rise at 1% per year. Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Base expenses of $30,000, real rate of return 5%
Reaching $2 million at age...
Starting salary $50,000   - age 50 (21 years to $1 million, 7 to $2 million)
Starting salary $100,000 - age 41 (13,6)
Starting salary $200,000 - age 35 (8,5)

Base expenses of $30,000, real rate of return 7%
Reaching $2 million at age...
Starting salary $50,000   - age 47 (19,6)
Starting salary $100,000 - age 39 (12,7)
Starting salary $200,000 - age 34 (8,4)

Base expenses of $30,000, real rate of return 15%
Reaching $2 million at age...
Starting salary $50,000   - age 41 (15,4)
Starting salary $100,000 - age 35 (9,3)
Starting salary $200,000 - age 32 (7,3)

Base expenses of $60,000, real rate of return 5%
Reaching $2 million at age...
Starting salary $50,000   - age 92 (39,6)
Starting salary $100,000 - age 48 (19,7)
Starting salary $200,000 - age 38 (11,5)

So, some observations on this info...

- Time to double from $1 million is consistently much lower than time to $1 million.  In other words, once you've gotten to $1 million, if you keep doing what you're doing you're pretty likely to double it quickly.
- The biggest influence on how fast you get to multimillionaire status is your earnings as opposed to your expenses or rate of return unless you manage to get a very high rate of return.
       - In the example where base expenses are $60,000 and salary starts at $50,000, the debt burden grows for the first 16 years and net worth doesn't get back to 0 until age 48 - 26 years after starting to work - so this shows the effect of living beyond your means
       - You can definitely cut down time to retirement if you manage to get a 15% ROR but good luck with that.  My take is that you can get there fast enough as it is with a lot lower risk, so why risk getting wiped out?
- (My biggest takeaway from this) If you keep your expenses down, start with a living wage, and are able to have decent salary progress over the course of your career, FIREing as a multimillionaire is within the reach of just about anyone in a developed economy, provided that the financial markets yield something on lower than but near their historical average over the next 20-40 years.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4211 on: December 08, 2020, 09:12:34 AM »
Jeroly, you are really a math guy, yes? 

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4212 on: December 08, 2020, 12:56:49 PM »
Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Most people are in jobs that simply won't support a 5%/year (plus inflation) salary increase year after year.   

markbike528CBX

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4213 on: December 08, 2020, 01:05:39 PM »
Jeroly, you are really a math guy, yes?

I also spreadsheet and graph for entertainment.  Just last night I "rediscovered" the HertzsprungĖRussell diagram from a NASA dataset (TESS)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertzsprung%E2%80%93Russell_diagram

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4214 on: December 08, 2020, 02:01:41 PM »
Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Most people are in jobs that simply won't support a 5%/year (plus inflation) salary increase year after year.   

I'll say.

I'm an engineer and I've had 2 3% raises in my present job that I've been at for 5 years.  Previous job was 4 years and zero raises (company had an excuse why nobody got one).  Previous job, did pretty well.  In 8 years, probably 3 were pay freezes, the other 5, probably 2.5% raises.

I did get more money through bonuses, RSUs, ESPP, filing patents and bringing new people in.

5% a year?  Uh, no.  This isn't 1987, where this could happen.

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4215 on: December 08, 2020, 02:15:38 PM »
Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Most people are in jobs that simply won't support a 5%/year (plus inflation) salary increase year after year.   

I'll say.

I'm an engineer and I've had 2 3% raises in my present job that I've been at for 5 years.  Previous job was 4 years and zero raises (company had an excuse why nobody got one).  Previous job, did pretty well.  In 8 years, probably 3 were pay freezes, the other 5, probably 2.5% raises.

I did get more money through bonuses, RSUs, ESPP, filing patents and bringing new people in.

5% a year?  Uh, no.  This isn't 1987, where this could happen.

Huh.  It happened to me.

I had a 23 year career and more than quadrupled my salary from beginning to end.  That corresponds to somewhat better than a 6% raise on average if I did the math right.  That's also just base salary and ignores stock options and bonuses, which were more plentiful later on.

I was a firmware engineer for the first 18 years and a firmware engineering manager for the last 5.  BSCS plus a state school MBA.  Most of those 23 years were at two different Fortune 500 tech companies.  Lived in Idaho the entire time.

Maybe I was just lucky.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4216 on: December 08, 2020, 02:30:25 PM »
Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Most people are in jobs that simply won't support a 5%/year (plus inflation) salary increase year after year.   

I'll say.

I'm an engineer and I've had 2 3% raises in my present job that I've been at for 5 years.  Previous job was 4 years and zero raises (company had an excuse why nobody got one).  Previous job, did pretty well.  In 8 years, probably 3 were pay freezes, the other 5, probably 2.5% raises.

I did get more money through bonuses, RSUs, ESPP, filing patents and bringing new people in.

5% a year?  Uh, no.  This isn't 1987, where this could happen.

Huh.  It happened to me.

I had a 23 year career and more than quadrupled my salary from beginning to end.  That corresponds to somewhat better than a 6% raise on average if I did the math right.  That's also just base salary and ignores stock options and bonuses, which were more plentiful later on.

I was a firmware engineer for the first 18 years and a firmware engineering manager for the last 5.  BSCS plus a state school MBA.  Most of those 23 years were at two different Fortune 500 tech companies.  Lived in Idaho the entire time.

Maybe I was just lucky.

Your last sentence nailed it.   That's not to discount your hard work and skill -- I'm sure you had plenty.

But you wandered into a booming industry that required skilled labor that was in short supply.   So did I.   

Everyone, by definition, can't do that, because most industries don't have massive firehoses of cash being tossed their way -- or those that do only need easily gotten skills that they don't have to pay big bucks to hire.

PDXTabs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4217 on: December 08, 2020, 07:55:06 PM »
Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Most people are in jobs that simply won't support a 5%/year (plus inflation) salary increase year after year.   

I'll say.

I'm an engineer and I've had 2 3% raises in my present job that I've been at for 5 years.  Previous job was 4 years and zero raises (company had an excuse why nobody got one).  Previous job, did pretty well.  In 8 years, probably 3 were pay freezes, the other 5, probably 2.5% raises.

I did get more money through bonuses, RSUs, ESPP, filing patents and bringing new people in.

5% a year?  Uh, no.  This isn't 1987, where this could happen.

Huh.  It happened to me.

I had a 23 year career and more than quadrupled my salary from beginning to end.  That corresponds to somewhat better than a 6% raise on average if I did the math right.  That's also just base salary and ignores stock options and bonuses, which were more plentiful later on.

I was a firmware engineer for the first 18 years and a firmware engineering manager for the last 5.  BSCS plus a state school MBA.  Most of those 23 years were at two different Fortune 500 tech companies.  Lived in Idaho the entire time.

Maybe I was just lucky.

Your last sentence nailed it.   That's not to discount your hard work and skill -- I'm sure you had plenty.

But you wandered into a booming industry that required skilled labor that was in short supply.   So did I.   

Everyone, by definition, can't do that, because most industries don't have massive firehoses of cash being tossed their way -- or those that do only need easily gotten skills that they don't have to pay big bucks to hire.

I think that it depends where you start too. Strictly speaking I started my career at $8/hr in 1999 and have since quadrupled my base salary.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4218 on: December 09, 2020, 06:22:44 AM »
Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Most people are in jobs that simply won't support a 5%/year (plus inflation) salary increase year after year.   

I'll say.

I'm an engineer and I've had 2 3% raises in my present job that I've been at for 5 years.  Previous job was 4 years and zero raises (company had an excuse why nobody got one).  Previous job, did pretty well.  In 8 years, probably 3 were pay freezes, the other 5, probably 2.5% raises.

I did get more money through bonuses, RSUs, ESPP, filing patents and bringing new people in.

5% a year?  Uh, no.  This isn't 1987, where this could happen.

There's not a lot of positions even in the right industries that are going to involve planned 5% real pay annual increases.  But I think the 5% (average of course, not gradual) is very possible when you;re moving up in positions/changing companies over time.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4219 on: December 09, 2020, 07:26:27 AM »
Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Most people are in jobs that simply won't support a 5%/year (plus inflation) salary increase year after year.   
I had the same thought. However, starting saving early so compound interest can work its magic is an even more powerful force. Don't work in an area that offers raises like that? Save and invest just a little bit more.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4220 on: December 09, 2020, 08:33:47 AM »
Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Most people are in jobs that simply won't support a 5%/year (plus inflation) salary increase year after year.   

I'll say.

I'm an engineer and I've had 2 3% raises in my present job that I've been at for 5 years.  Previous job was 4 years and zero raises (company had an excuse why nobody got one).  Previous job, did pretty well.  In 8 years, probably 3 were pay freezes, the other 5, probably 2.5% raises.

I did get more money through bonuses, RSUs, ESPP, filing patents and bringing new people in.

5% a year?  Uh, no.  This isn't 1987, where this could happen.

There's not a lot of positions even in the right industries that are going to involve planned 5% real pay annual increases.  But I think the 5% (average of course, not gradual) is very possible when you;re moving up in positions/changing companies over time.

I received my annual comp update yesterday, and received a 2.2% raise. I'm already very well compensated, & received a six figure annual bonus, plus a generous stock grant. My observation as a reasonably senior person in tech is that my salary is now a smaller portion of my overall comp (well under 1/2 at this point), so raises don't matter as much.

From a growth perspective, I started out at 22 (in tech) making $36k/year in 1998. I'm now making over $600k. I certainly echo the feedback upthread. I'm skilled & have deep expertise in a high demand area, but I've also gotten incredibly lucky - right industry, right time, right managers, etc.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4221 on: December 09, 2020, 08:38:43 AM »
$600k? Wowza!

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4222 on: December 09, 2020, 09:49:24 AM »
$600k? Wowza!

I'm not worthy of being on a forum with people of that income level. 

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4223 on: December 09, 2020, 10:11:16 AM »
$600k? Wowza!

I'm not worthy of being on a forum with people of that income level.

We live in the bay area, so our housing/tax expenses are pretty eye watering as well. We could be making significantly less in plenty of areas in the US & have a similar disposable income. But yes, feeling very grateful, although it makes my plans to leave that much more challenging to execute. :-) 2020 has brought a halt to international travel (for work),which has bought me more time churning out the money.

dividendman

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4224 on: December 09, 2020, 11:44:54 AM »
$600k? Wowza!

I'm not worthy of being on a forum with people of that income level.

We live in the bay area, so our housing/tax expenses are pretty eye watering as well. We could be making significantly less in plenty of areas in the US & have a similar disposable income. But yes, feeling very grateful, although it makes my plans to leave that much more challenging to execute. :-) 2020 has brought a halt to international travel (for work),which has bought me more time churning out the money.

Yeah, I'm about to FIRE (again) and I have an income thereabouts and it's hard.... but I'm doing it early 2021!!! How are you mentally preparing for it?

On the one hand I have enough money to do what I want in life.

On the other hand it seems kinda dumb to just give up 700k.... so....... argh. Still gonna do it, but damn.

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4225 on: December 09, 2020, 01:12:07 PM »
Yeah, I'm about to FIRE (again) and I have an income thereabouts and it's hard.... but I'm doing it early 2021!!! How are you mentally preparing for it?

On the one hand I have enough money to do what I want in life.

On the other hand it seems kinda dumb to just give up 700k.... so....... argh. Still gonna do it, but damn.

In the words of Paul Simon :-) :

Quote
You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

I was not quite in your league but I just walked away from about $300k/year. It was not too hard as I had become progressively disenchanted with the tech field: all this amazing technology being used to throw a few call-center workers out of work? Makes no sense.

ysette9

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4226 on: December 09, 2020, 02:10:49 PM »
Iím not at all in @maybebabymustacheís league but I was earning almost $300k before I quit. My mother was horrified by the idea that I was leaving invested stock on the table. But if I had waited until all my stock vested to quit I would have never quit.

Iím simultaneously of two minds about it all.
On one hand it is a firehose of money coming relatively more easily than ever in our careers. On the other hand, once we reached Enough I found I had very little patience for work shenanigans impacting home life. You can tolerate a lot when it is in pursuit of an important goal, but once the goal is reached? I just canít be convinced that whatever is going on with the production line of Yet Another Widget is more important than being with us for dinner tonight.

The other thing is that more money doesnít equal a better life somehow with my husband not changing his fundamental frugal nature. I get that frugality had a lot of benefits and allowed us to be where we are today. That said, sometimes I get frustrated that we are arguing over why I want the $40 waffle maker instead of the $25 waffle maker when $35k hit our checking account the week before. ďJust buy me the damn waffle maker that I want!Ē If continuing to work past Enough doesnít do any more than change a number on a spreadsheet then to hell with that shit.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4227 on: December 09, 2020, 02:12:02 PM »
$600k? Wowza!

I'm not worthy of being on a forum with people of that income level.
Of course you are. People who make $50k and $500k are all just people too... at least around these parts. :)

Allie

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4228 on: December 09, 2020, 02:29:15 PM »
Hi! 

Iím stopping in to say hi!  Weíve just hit 2.1, which is nice!  So, Iíd like please join your party!

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4229 on: December 09, 2020, 02:33:31 PM »
@ysette9 - waves! Hello, friend. :-)

To the point, there is no way to not leave stock on the table, so with my compensation package structure, I'll inevitably leave a bunch of unvested stock behind & have to reach a tipping point where I won't care. Or, perhaps it will bother me just a bit is a more accurate way to put it. :-)

The big deal breaker for me in my job has been international travel. COVID has changed that, and right now, I'm going to enjoy the ride for a bit more. I work for a manager/skip level manager I enjoy, largely enjoy my colleagues & lead a team of others that I enjoy. If any of those factors change or the stress outweighs the benefit, or I'm required to travel again, that will likely be the end for me. I'm not interested in trading 8-10 weeks a year away from my family for any amount of money at this point.


LightTripper

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4230 on: December 09, 2020, 03:02:15 PM »
Welcome @Allie and congratulations!

What are your plans: is RE on the horizon, or is the stash for something else/growing for a bit?

ysette9

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4231 on: December 09, 2020, 03:02:50 PM »
@ysette9 - waves! Hello, friend. :-)

To the point, there is no way to not leave stock on the table, so with my compensation package structure, I'll inevitably leave a bunch of unvested stock behind & have to reach a tipping point where I won't care. Or, perhaps it will bother me just a bit is a more accurate way to put it. :-)

The big deal breaker for me in my job has been international travel. COVID has changed that, and right now, I'm going to enjoy the ride for a bit more. I work for a manager/skip level manager I enjoy, largely enjoy my colleagues & lead a team of others that I enjoy. If any of those factors change or the stress outweighs the benefit, or I'm required to travel again, that will likely be the end for me. I'm not interested in trading 8-10 weeks a year away from my family for any amount of money at this point.
Hello to you too! :) I hope life and circumstances will allow us to catch up over lunch again one day in the future.

Not having international travel is a big blessing. My husbandís work is a lot more tolerable due to that change. Travel is hard on the individual doing the traveling and also hard on the family left behind, especially when the kids are young. Iím glad youíve got a pretty good situation going there.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4232 on: December 09, 2020, 03:36:33 PM »
$600k? Wowza!
I'm not worthy of being on a forum with people of that income level.
We live in the bay area, so our housing/tax expenses are pretty eye watering as well. We could be making significantly less in plenty of areas in the US & have a similar disposable income. But yes, feeling very grateful, although it makes my plans to leave that much more challenging to execute. :-) 2020 has brought a halt to international travel (for work),which has bought me more time churning out the money.
Yeah, we live in the Bay Area, too. Just for grins, and not to take anything away from your or @ysette9's success, our income was/is nowhere near that, by a long shot, yet here we three invisible friends are, hanging out in the same club. I realize it's less of an issue on this particular thread, but I want remind anyone reading (lurking?) and despairing of ever getting here that they don't have to be a huge wage earner. Mostly you just have to be smart about spending and investing. The investment order sticky works for everyone, even if they're never, ever going to earn that kind of income.

And @ysette9, I can't imagine having that kind of discussion with my husband. Of course, if I wanted a new waffle iron, I'd probably buy it at a thrift store, but damn, I'm not a mom of three little kids. Maybe give yourselves a reasonable Free Spending Limit? Then, if an expenditure is under X amount, there is no need for discussion. You've worked your ass of to get your family where it is today. You deserve some damn autonomy, IMO. Of course, I may have no idea what the hell I'm talking about...

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4233 on: December 09, 2020, 04:50:37 PM »
@Dicey - totally agree, so many paths to ending up here. In fact, I'd say our high income has hidden plenty of sins. Don't get me wrong, we've made a lot of good choices and spend less than we earn always, but we've made plenty of mistakes along the way as well.

ysette9

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4234 on: December 09, 2020, 05:10:03 PM »
$600k? Wowza!
I'm not worthy of being on a forum with people of that income level.
We live in the bay area, so our housing/tax expenses are pretty eye watering as well. We could be making significantly less in plenty of areas in the US & have a similar disposable income. But yes, feeling very grateful, although it makes my plans to leave that much more challenging to execute. :-) 2020 has brought a halt to international travel (for work),which has bought me more time churning out the money.
Yeah, we live in the Bay Area, too. Just for grins, and not to take anything away from your or @ysette9's success, our income was/is nowhere near that, by a long shot, yet here we three invisible friends are, hanging out in the same club. I realize it's less of an issue on this particular thread, but I want remind anyone reading (lurking?) and despairing of ever getting here that they don't have to be a huge wage earner. Mostly you just have to be smart about spending and investing. The investment order sticky works for everyone, even if they're never, ever going to earn that kind of income.

And @ysette9, I can't imagine having that kind of discussion with my husband. Of course, if I wanted a new waffle iron, I'd probably buy it at a thrift store, but damn, I'm not a mom of three little kids. Maybe give yourselves a reasonable Free Spending Limit? Then, if an expenditure is under X amount, there is no need for discussion. You've worked your ass of to get your family where it is today. You deserve some damn autonomy, IMO. Of course, I may have no idea what the hell I'm talking about...
You are correct and ordinarily I would just buy my own damn waffle maker, but in this instance it is ostensibly my Christmas gift that I choose and he clicks the ďBuyĒ button on. :) I have a lot of sentimentality wrapped up in memories of Sunday morning díamont wafffles, so I want a waffle maker that is the most like the one I had as a kid as I can find. Irrational. But the point of making waffles at how for me is the nostalgia.

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4235 on: December 10, 2020, 12:54:46 AM »
Welcome Allie! I was wondering when youíd pop on over here. :-)

texxan1

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4236 on: December 10, 2020, 05:07:25 AM »
with all this talk about starting salary and how long it took time to get there... I decided to go back and look at the start of my O@G career.... .i Started with oil company 1 , exactly 21 years ago last week.    They day i started i was in debt about 80k roughly..... 

1999- started with oil company A- $19.42 an hour 
2007- started with oil company B-  $44 an hour
2009- Took new job and promotion in Alaska with oil company B- Salary of $165k ( discuovered  FIRE idea)
2015- Took new Assignment ( on loan) working abroad for oil company B- Salary of $192k , plus over 100K a year in Tax Free International Rotator Premimum and stock options if a hit TOP Tier in our bonus matrix
2021-  FIRE coming feb 17th

So i decided to look back at my 401k, which was the ONLY money i had..... except for a few thousand in my bank account in 2009

401k   Dec 10 2009-   $19311
Checking account   -    $7000

Fast forward TODAY  dec 10th, 2020
401k- $1,100,021
Vanguard- $1,048,000
Checking/savings - $136,000
Lump sum pension when i Fire  $400k

So liquid worth next month when i Fire is   

$2,684,000                  THATS pretty damn awesome


no idea how to calculate that, but i can assure you that I still led a pretty good lift and honestly could have been alot more.....

What helped me the most is a simple nudge to get into that market using vanguard..... Thanks Pops

So in 11 years, i went from 25k to 2.6m     

I started a small but incoming producing business in 2014 ( ice machine vending) and decided to live on Just that money and invest everything from that i made from my real job and other side hustles into the 401k, max out at 53k each year, and the rest to my aftertax accounts...... Somewhere along the way, i bough a cheap piece of propery and built a 600sf house in a small coastal community... Never even lived in the place after we built the home.. Sold it the next week once it was completed for 175k.. Used that money to pay off the big house ...,, Cant say it has been easy, but it certainly wasnt hard when i put my head up and kicked it into overdrive..


The Stars alligned and got offered a package from big oil and signed that last week..... Been over my Fire number since last year, but knew this package was coming and worked out..... ON to the next chapter

Tex






2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4237 on: December 10, 2020, 10:33:37 AM »
with all this talk about starting salary and how long it took time to get there... I decided to go back and look at the start of my O@G career.... .i Started with oil company 1 , exactly 21 years ago last week.    They day i started i was in debt about 80k roughly..... 

1999- started with oil company A- $19.42 an hour 
2007- started with oil company B-  $44 an hour
2009- Took new job and promotion in Alaska with oil company B- Salary of $165k ( discuovered  FIRE idea)
2015- Took new Assignment ( on loan) working abroad for oil company B- Salary of $192k , plus over 100K a year in Tax Free International Rotator Premimum and stock options if a hit TOP Tier in our bonus matrix
2021-  FIRE coming feb 17th

So i decided to look back at my 401k, which was the ONLY money i had..... except for a few thousand in my bank account in 2009

401k   Dec 10 2009-   $19311
Checking account   -    $7000

Fast forward TODAY  dec 10th, 2020
401k- $1,100,021
Vanguard- $1,048,000
Checking/savings - $136,000
Lump sum pension when i Fire  $400k

So liquid worth next month when i Fire is   

$2,684,000                  THATS pretty damn awesome


Tex

Now, that's a great achievement! I have known a number of people who really struggled in the oil and gas industry due to layoffs. I'm really impressed with how disciplined you have been in your savings strategy.

billsfan1_2000

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4238 on: December 10, 2020, 05:13:14 PM »
Hey all!  How's things?????  Just sayin' - love hearing all your chatter....good stuff.  Went over $4m in recent months....any objection to one sticking around? 

By the way - GO BILLS! 

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4239 on: December 10, 2020, 09:13:34 PM »
Hey all!  How's things?????  Just sayin' - love hearing all your chatter....good stuff.  Went over $4m in recent months....any objection to one sticking around? 

By the way - GO BILLS!

I think there are more than a few of us that have gone in to the great beyond, hence the full title of the thread...  congrats (to you, not the Bills :)  It's all good here, just please contribute as to what come next for you (how you are living out your dreams and aspirations), or the challenges you face (should probably make legacy plans since we won't spend it before the end), and please don't just list off milestones (woo-hoo $5M, woo-hoo $6M, etc)...  Yes, once you hit a certain amount, Mustachians (people that live below their means) will continue with inevitable (and enviable) gains...  the reporting of the math of it is not very exciting TBH.

Allie

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4240 on: December 10, 2020, 11:26:43 PM »
Welcome @Allie and congratulations!

What are your plans: is RE on the horizon, or is the stash for something else/growing for a bit?

Iím working for fun and teaching kids!  DH is still working, and probably will for a while longer.  He can choose to leave whenever, I guess, but heís not ready. 

Welcome Allie! I was wondering when youíd pop on over here. :-)

Thanks!  Itís been right there for a while...but it doesnít feel real!  Iíll probably slip back under at some point, but we have end of the year stuff coming up, so maybe Iíll stay? 

Iím probably going to need help figuring out how to structure everything so we can actually live off of it once my DH does re.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4241 on: December 11, 2020, 06:34:21 AM »
Salary rising 5%/year (real).

Most people are in jobs that simply won't support a 5%/year (plus inflation) salary increase year after year.   

I'll say.

I'm an engineer and I've had 2 3% raises in my present job that I've been at for 5 years.  Previous job was 4 years and zero raises (company had an excuse why nobody got one).  Previous job, did pretty well.  In 8 years, probably 3 were pay freezes, the other 5, probably 2.5% raises.

I did get more money through bonuses, RSUs, ESPP, filing patents and bringing new people in.

5% a year?  Uh, no.  This isn't 1987, where this could happen.

There's not a lot of positions even in the right industries that are going to involve planned 5% real pay annual increases.  But I think the 5% (average of course, not gradual) is very possible when you;re moving up in positions/changing companies over time.

I received my annual comp update yesterday, and received a 2.2% raise. I'm already very well compensated, & received a six figure annual bonus, plus a generous stock grant. My observation as a reasonably senior person in tech is that my salary is now a smaller portion of my overall comp (well under 1/2 at this point), so raises don't matter as much.

From a growth perspective, I started out at 22 (in tech) making $36k/year in 1998. I'm now making over $600k. I certainly echo the feedback upthread. I'm skilled & have deep expertise in a high demand area, but I've also gotten incredibly lucky - right industry, right time, right managers, etc.

Wow, $600k in comp, that's pretty amazing.  I profited over that for one great year when owning a business and another year at about that, but I could never have said I was "making X" at any number near that (or really any number at all confidently when running the business) as I never knew what the next year (or month) would bring. It was all risk/reward.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4242 on: December 11, 2020, 08:11:54 AM »
@Much Fishing to Do

You got me curious about how much my comp has changed over the past few years, when I've really seen an explosion upward

2014 - $224k
2015 - $316k
2016 - $364k
2017 - $436k
2018 - $472k
2019 - $500k
2020 - $595k
2021 - $640k

What's happened in that period of time? I've been promoted three times (one was a more significant promo that impact bonus & equity ceiling), & my yearly options started adding up. Mine vest over a four year period, so once I'd had a few promos under my belt, and had four year of stock, that adds up to the doubling of income.

It also explains why it feels so new to me. (I don't talk about this with anyone other than my husband, & sometimes on this thread). Wow, what a journey. I'm also at the peak years, as you can see, so it feels worth it to see if I can push out another couple of the big earning years to cover things like giving, travel, & some luxuries for the future.

I also wanted to be clear that I haven't been making that for long (not that my previous comp was anything to sneeze at.)

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4243 on: December 11, 2020, 08:44:48 AM »
Good to see a lot of newbies in the thread. Its amazing to me how people know what they made and how much each year there portfolios went up for such an extended period of time. Just shows the lack of discipline I had and am fortunate to have gotten in this group by being self-employed and at the end finally getting my shit together. Good stuff you guys have I pass on to my kids!

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4244 on: December 12, 2020, 05:02:17 PM »
I never made much more than $100K in a year.

BECABECA

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4245 on: December 13, 2020, 04:57:12 PM »
Well, our liquid assets have finally crossed over the $2m mark so Iím ready to officially join this club! And our total net worth including primary residence also crossed over $3m this month, so it has been quite the month for milestones!

It took 13 years after graduating college for net worth to hit the first million, then 2.5 years to hit the second, and 2.8 years to hit the third. I FIREíd a few years ago, so that slowed the 3rd down a bit. My spouse is still enjoying work and doesnít want to retire yet so weíre on track to hit 4 in another few years.

My first job out of college had an annual salary of $29k in 2002 (which felt like a fortune!) and my last job was $160k in 2017 (good thing we had layoffs, otherwise I would have been OMY/2MY). I put my spouse through grad school, her first annual salary was $70k in 2009 and sheís at $160k now.

Itís crazy how once you start the money compounding, it just keeps ballooning! Anyway, Iím excited to finally be here!

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4246 on: December 13, 2020, 05:16:54 PM »
I've noticed some differences between this thread and the other earlier "race" threads:

1.  The earlier threads seem to be races and grinds.  This thread people seem to have relaxed.

2.  The earlier threads people seem to care more about how to calculate NW.  Not as much here.

3.  The earlier threads people often calculate to the penny.  Here it's much more approximate.  (I can appreciate why.)


Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4247 on: December 13, 2020, 05:44:56 PM »
I've noticed some differences between this thread and the other earlier "race" threads:

1.  The earlier threads seem to be races and grinds.  This thread people seem to have relaxed.

2.  The earlier threads people seem to care more about how to calculate NW.  Not as much here.

3.  The earlier threads people often calculate to the penny.  Here it's much more approximate.  (I can appreciate why.)

Our NW can easily change 20K in a single day.  You no longer sweat the small shit.  I'm still working for some crazy reason.  I blame it on the future cost of healthcare.  Anyway I worked 84 hours this week due to overtime needs.  I'll gross, not clear about $4000.  Nice paycheck for many.  Right?  Really?  We'll, not really.  Our assets will make close to that on their own.  How do you get all worked up when your money makes more money than you do busting ass for 7 consecutive 12 hours shifts in a row. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4248 on: December 13, 2020, 06:41:50 PM »
I've noticed some differences between this thread and the other earlier "race" threads:

1.  The earlier threads seem to be races and grinds.  This thread people seem to have relaxed.

2.  The earlier threads people seem to care more about how to calculate NW.  Not as much here.

3.  The earlier threads people often calculate to the penny.  Here it's much more approximate.  (I can appreciate why.)

Our NW can easily change 20K in a single day.  You no longer sweat the small shit.  I'm still working for some crazy reason.  I blame it on the future cost of healthcare.  Anyway I worked 84 hours this week due to overtime needs.  I'll gross, not clear about $4000.  Nice paycheck for many.  Right?  Really?  We'll, not really.  Our assets will make close to that on their own.  How do you get all worked up when your money makes more money than you do busting ass for 7 consecutive 12 hours shifts in a row.

We have a solution to offer for that problem and you know what it is... :)

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4249 on: December 13, 2020, 06:46:00 PM »
I've noticed some differences between this thread and the other earlier "race" threads:

1.  The earlier threads seem to be races and grinds.  This thread people seem to have relaxed.

2.  The earlier threads people seem to care more about how to calculate NW.  Not as much here.

3.  The earlier threads people often calculate to the penny.  Here it's much more approximate.  (I can appreciate why.)

Our NW can easily change 20K in a single day.  You no longer sweat the small shit.  I'm still working for some crazy reason.  I blame it on the future cost of healthcare.  Anyway I worked 84 hours this week due to overtime needs.  I'll gross, not clear about $4000.  Nice paycheck for many.  Right?  Really?  We'll, not really.  Our assets will make close to that on their own.  How do you get all worked up when your money makes more money than you do busting ass for 7 consecutive 12 hours shifts in a row.

I got an unexpected decent sized bonus this paycheck.  It was seriously a surprise, I had no clue it was coming.  My first reaction was cool, my second thought was, WTF do I do with this.  I also have made more in my accounts that in take home pay this year.