Planting/Growing Your Own in 2016

[asauer]

Joining!  sprouting tomatoes and cabbage in the house right now and will hopefully direct sow spinach and beets next weekend.  It's basically gone from a high of 35 to a high of 80 in two weeks so I'm hesitant to put anything in the ground right now.  But hey, gotta try, right?  I love planting the seeds in the spring mainly b/c it means winter is OVER!  Ironically, we actually had some cilantro that has popped back with a vengeance.  Going to have to plan lots of thai and latin meals.

[JoRocka]

Future Husband and I have been talking about doing some gardening- I have a hard time with gardens- I LOVE doing it- I grew up with small garden stuff- so I enjoyed it a lot.
BUT. I moved to NJ- and started living in a more urban environment and it's been more difficult. now I have a back yard and we gave it a shot last year- and I got some tomatoes... but I struggle with mosquitoes- if we have them outside- I'm an instant mosquito target.

So I get started- then it gets muggy- and then I don't go outside to maintain.

But we said we were going to give it a shot- not sure where I should start again- pretty sure I'm not going to be able to do seeds- so turn the soil and we'll start prepping our one bed and try to get it really raised- last year it was a half assed mound of sadness.

I'm thinking I'll get some over the edge of the balcony plants for my herbs and hopefully the squirrels wont' get them.

I'll probably go with the usual tomatoes,cucumbers, green peppers onions, zucchini and lettuce- and some potatoes. hopefully- I'm overly ambitious LOL- Usually I can only get a few tomatoes- whatever green thumb I had as a child has left me- so this will be a fight!

now-if only I could get FH on board with composting!!!

[RetiredAt63]

I feel for you with the hot and muggy - everyone thinks of us as COLD! but in summer it is hot and humid.  The best times for gardening (cool mornings and evenings) are the best time for mosquitoes - I find late morning and late afternoon work best, not as hot as mid-day, and the mosquitoes aren't out in full force.  Work where it's dry, if you disturb them in their daytime hide-aways they will enjoy your company.

Re composting, if you don't have a lot of material at first for a bin, maybe try the red wrigglers in a container for household plant waste?  What they produce is black gold (and houseplants loooove it).  When FH sees what it does for plants he may get more on-board.
And let's figure this out - why does he not want to compost?  It can be small and cheap and easy, or big and a horrendous amount of effort.  Go for cheap and easy.  Lots of us compost (hey, I am 65, female, of average strength, and I compost).

I struggle with mosquitoes- if we have them outside- I'm an instant mosquito target.

So I get started- then it gets muggy- and then I don't go outside to maintain.
now-if only I could get FH on board with composting!!!

[chaskavitch]

Ooh, joining this thread :) 

We have four 4x4 raised beds right now, and we're pulling up bushes on the edges of our yard to make room for some raspberries, hopefully.  The beds have a shadecloth cover for hail protection (yay Colorado June weater), as well as bird netting all the way around to keep out the chickens.  We only have 4, and they absolutely DESTROYED our lettuce bed last year in about twenty minutes.  They have, however, been contributing to our compost pile on a regular basis, so I gave them a free pass.

We just went to the nursery yesterday and beefed up our seed collection, then planted a bunch of veggies and flower seeds.  DH gets really into projects, so we now have a heat mat, a grow light, some shelves, tiny plastic containers with lids to keep the moisture in, and reusable seed markers.  Whew.  Also he's decided to build a greenhouse and start a bonsai collection, lol.

We planted Roma, Moneymaker, and grape tomatoes; anaheim, jalapeno, and red chile peppers; and for herbs we have cilantro, basil, mint (I sadly forgot the chives and rosemary).  We're trying an eggplant this year, although I don't know what to do with it, and foregoing the zucchini, because it takes over an entire raised bed and kills off the rest of the plants.  We'll start some lettuce and spinach and snow peas in the beds in the next week or two.  I was going to plant them this weekend in the 70 degree weather, but it is supposed to snow this Friday, so we held off :( 

We are trying to start a bunch of annual flowers, as well, so DH doesn't have to buy starts at a nursery.  Those suckers get pricy.  We have zinnias, snapdragons, and petunias right now, and I'm going to plant some pansies and nasturtiums later this month. 

Does anyone know where to buy geranium seeds?  They are DH's favorite, and I didn't think to try to save any seeds from our plants last year.  I can't seem to find any seed packets anywhere, though.  Are they just difficult to grow from seeds, so no one sells them?

[JoRocka]

I feel for you with the hot and muggy - everyone thinks of us as COLD! but in summer it is hot and humid.  The best times for gardening (cool mornings and evenings) are the best time for mosquitoes - I find late morning and late afternoon work best, not as hot as mid-day, and the mosquitoes aren't out in full force.  Work where it's dry, if you disturb them in their daytime hide-aways they will enjoy your company.

Re composting, if you don't have a lot of material at first for a bin, maybe try the red wrigglers in a container for household plant waste?  What they produce is black gold (and houseplants loooove it).  When FH sees what it does for plants he may get more on-board.
And let's figure this out - why does he not want to compost?  It can be small and cheap and easy, or big and a horrendous amount of effort.  Go for cheap and easy.  Lots of us compost (hey, I am 65, female, of average strength, and I compost).

I struggle with mosquitoes- if we have them outside- I'm an instant mosquito target.

So I get started- then it gets muggy- and then I don't go outside to maintain.
now-if only I could get FH on board with composting!!!

I think we need to kind of really regrade- the back yard-it's got a substantial slope and leaves me with a small pond and I know that really is just the best thing ever for mosquito. And since we don't own- so that would require sinking money into something we aren't sure we are going to be investing in long term (2-3 years most)- so I know half my problem is landscape surface. FH seems more on board with being proactive and doing something with the back yard- which is AWESOME- we don't live together so that's like a whole division of labor thing- but never the less- he seems keen on being productive so hopefully between the two of us we can work out something to make a garden really work AND keep mosquito down (I think there is a small water source beyond our fence- which obviously doesn't' help.

As for composite- really it's a time/money/inconvenience issue. I personally hate seeing waste I could use... growing up on a farm- this is normal) - he sees it as "it's a hassle to compost when we can go buy fertilizer)- so expectation management.

I haven't done a good job of managing my compost either as i have to walk through the house (i.e. the bedroom) from the kitchen with said trimmings etc etc- so that's annoying (I have a split level converted house- so the lay out is SUPER weird)- and I think he hates the clutter/smell/process. (he's more city boy than I am)

So- I'm guessing if I got a compost turner thing that enclosed the smell and was easy to transfer he would probably be more on board with it- but really he just thinks it's a waste of time because of the fact we can get a 5$ bag of fertilizer at the Depot.

[Sweetloveginger]

I love gardening, and have been doing potted gardens for a number of years, but since buying our first house last year I’m starting a real one for the first time and I’m super excited.

We have four 4x4 raised beds already as well as a section along our fenced in yard for peas and other climbers. My husband just built 2 new 6x2 beds this weekend while I started some seeds and we both attempted to prune our apple trees (we have no clue what we are doing). The herb garden will stay potted because we have a number of backyard/deck plans that need to be completed this year before I can find it a permanent home. We also ordered about 10 blueberry bushes to use as a hedge for privacy. I’m all for edible landscape.

I’m beyond excited and this warm weather has only exacerbated that. It’s so frustrating to not be able to actually put things in the ground when it’s 70 degrees outside!

[RetiredAt63]

You can get mosquito dunks for the pond, I think they are basically Bti which kills mosquito larvae and nothing else.  I've seen granules as well, just sprinkle them on the water surface. 

Compost - red wrigglers can be kept in the house although you might prefer to have them outside.  If you can find a spot for them in the kitchen that makes them easy to feed. 

Sure you can buy fertilizer at the store, but it does not do much to improve the soil, where compost does.  You can always do slow composting with kitchen waste, which means burying it in your garden instead of having a separate compost bin.  If you don't have a lot of plant material for composting, either red wrigglers or burying it works better than a conventional compost pile.  You need at leas a cubic yard (better 4'x4'x4') to get active composting.  Also, the advantage of compost: we have known for a long time that legumes work with soil bacteria (Rhizobium)to get fixed nitrogen, that is what pea and bean innoculant is, but the more soil biologists look at plant roots and fungi and bacteria, the more they are finding that the organisms work together.  This is facilitated by compost and hindered by chemical fertilizer.  And compost is basically free.  FH shouldn't do the comparison between home-made compost and fertilizer, he should compare between home-grown and bagged compost. 

I hope your garden turns out really well!

I think we need to kind of really regrade- the back yard-it's got a substantial slope and leaves me with a small pond and I know that really is just the best thing ever for mosquito.

As for composite- really it's a time/money/inconvenience issue. I personally hate seeing waste I could use... growing up on a farm- this is normal) - he sees it as "it's a hassle to compost when we can go buy fertilizer)- so expectation management.

I haven't done a good job of managing my compost either as i have to walk through the house (i.e. the bedroom) from the kitchen with said trimmings etc etc- so that's annoying (I have a split level converted house- so the lay out is SUPER weird)- and I think he hates the clutter/smell/process. (he's more city boy than I am)

So- I'm guessing if I got a compost turner thing that enclosed the smell and was easy to transfer he would probably be more on board with it- but really he just thinks it's a waste of time because of the fact we can get a 5$ bag of fertilizer at the Depot.

[JoRocka]

You can get mosquito dunks for the pond, I think they are basically Bti which kills mosquito larvae and nothing else.  I've seen granules as well, just sprinkle them on the water surface. 

Compost - red wrigglers can be kept in the house although you might prefer to have them outside.  If you can find a spot for them in the kitchen that makes them easy to feed. 

Sure you can buy fertilizer at the store, but it does not do much to improve the soil, where compost does.  You can always do slow composting with kitchen waste, which means burying it in your garden instead of having a separate compost bin.  If you don't have a lot of plant material for composting, either red wrigglers or burying it works better than a conventional compost pile.  You need at leas a cubic yard (better 4'x4'x4') to get active composting.  Also, the advantage of compost: we have known for a long time that legumes work with soil bacteria (Rhizobium)to get fixed nitrogen, that is what pea and bean innoculant is, but the more soil biologists look at plant roots and fungi and bacteria, the more they are finding that the organisms work together.  This is facilitated by compost and hindered by chemical fertilizer.  And compost is basically free.  FH shouldn't do the comparison between home-made compost and fertilizer, he should compare between home-grown and bagged compost. 

I hope your garden turns out really well!

I think we need to kind of really regrade- the back yard-it's got a substantial slope and leaves me with a small pond and I know that really is just the best thing ever for mosquito.

As for composite- really it's a time/money/inconvenience issue. I personally hate seeing waste I could use... growing up on a farm- this is normal) - he sees it as "it's a hassle to compost when we can go buy fertilizer)- so expectation management.

I haven't done a good job of managing my compost either as i have to walk through the house (i.e. the bedroom) from the kitchen with said trimmings etc etc- so that's annoying (I have a split level converted house- so the lay out is SUPER weird)- and I think he hates the clutter/smell/process. (he's more city boy than I am)

So- I'm guessing if I got a compost turner thing that enclosed the smell and was easy to transfer he would probably be more on board with it- but really he just thinks it's a waste of time because of the fact we can get a 5$ bag of fertilizer at the Depot.

Thanks for taking the time to talk this out with me- I did a little composting outside with my neighbors way back when- they had a big old pile- so that's kind of how I'd been leaning- doing the "in ground" method- I need to research indoor/outdoor options and see what's easier.   I think it's doable- and I'd love to reduce my waste going out the front door in to the garbage truck!

I'll look into and keep you posted on how it goes!! I HAVE FAITH!!! and lots of egg shells and coffee grounds!!! :D

[RetiredAt63]

Egg shells (dried and crushed) and coffee grounds can be dug right into the garden beds.  At least that is where mine go.  And yes, I have 3 big coffee tins full of dry used coffee grounds and 5 big zip-lock bags full of crushed egg shells for digging in this spring, gardeners are not normal people.  ;-)

I'll look into and keep you posted on how it goes!! I HAVE FAITH!!! and lots of egg shells and coffee grounds!!! :D

[Sylly]

People seem to have lots of seedling of any given vegetable..

So,.. newbie question here. How much stuff do you get?

This is the first year I'm trying to grow veggies, and I honestly have no idea how many plants I can fit in the 4x8 box we're going to set up. I currently have 15 seedlings between two kinds of tomatoes and I'm thinking what I'm going to do with them all. And that's not counting the 6 (hopefully they all make it) chili seedlings, 4 tomatillos, 3 shallots & garlic.

Should I be planting more of some of these things? Our main concern in not wanting to start up a lot of any given thing is.. there's only two of us and we can only eat so much!

[backyardfeast]

This is the first year I'm trying to grow veggies, and I honestly have no idea how many plants I can fit in the 4x8 box we're going to set up. I currently have 15 seedlings between two kinds of tomatoes and I'm thinking what I'm going to do with them all. And that's not counting the 6 (hopefully they all make it) chili seedlings, 4 tomatillos, 3 shallots & garlic.

Should I be planting more of some of these things? Our main concern in not wanting to start up a lot of any given thing is.. there's only two of us and we can only eat so much!

I wouldn't worry about having too much of anything if you're growing for the first time.  It's better to have great success and be overrun; you can always freeze or can the surplus to eat during the winter.  :)  15 tomato plants is a LOT of tomatoes--but that's great! Out of 16-18 paste tomato plants, I get as much thick sauce canned as we can go through in a year, and I usually have another bed of 12 or plants for fresh eating. We freeze or make salsa out of some of those, eat more than we can handle, and give tons away and tons to the chickens.

You'll more likely run out of space, though.  The key is to do a bit of reading (even on the back of your seed packets) about how much space to give to each plant.  Tomatoes need about 2' square each (I pack mine in at 16"x 18", train them up, and prune like crazy, but I don't get anything else in the bed), especially if they are bush (determinate) not vines (indeterminate), so your 4x8 bed wouldn't likely get much else.  Peppers and tomatillos are pretty happy in big pots, and you could probably squeeze the onions and garlic around the edges of the tomatoes, as long as they don't get shaded out.  Did you want to grow anything else in your bed? Lettuce, carrots..?

In a small space, where your focus isn't preserving, I'd be more inclined to plant about 6 tomato plants tightly across one 8' side of your bed, and then you'd have space for a whole lot of other stuff lower in front (a few peppers and a few tomatillos--or put these in pots).  You'd be able to grow some basil, lettuce, chard, beets, broccoli, etc quite happily that way and have a ton of diverse veggies to eat all summer.

My .02!

[RetiredAt63]

^^ What Backyardfeast said, but the bed should run east-west, so the tomatoes are on the north side of the bed.  If it runs north-south the tomatoes are going to shade out everything else for half the day (good for lettuce, not so good for things that need sun).  I got over-enthusiastic last summer and crowded my tomatoes, and my yield was way down.  Better to give them a bit more space than too little.

[ender]

posting to follow!

[Thegoblinchief]

Even 6 tomatoes is an awful lot. I usually do tomatoes on 36" spacing if they're indeterminate varieties, so that's a max of 4 over 8 feet and you'll need to let them flop out to one side or they will dominate the bed.

Sure you can't build another bed or two? ;) Or containers?

[aetherie]

Apartment-dwelling, container-gardening newbie with a question: I have two tomato plants in pots that I started last spring on our balcony. They grew throughout the summer and provided us with many lovely tomatoes. When the weather got cold I brought them inside, figuring they could live out their days next to the balcony door in relative comfort.

Autumn came and went. Tomatoes kept appearing.

Winter came and went. These plants WILL NOT DIE.

It's now March. The tomatoes have finally stopped appearing, but the plants are still growing new leaves and flowers.

My aunt says that in South America, tomatoes are perennials, so there's no reason not to give them some fertilizer, trim the dead parts, and hope for another crop this year. Is this possible? What kind of fertilizer should I get? Does anyone have experience with container tomato plants that just keep going?

[Nancy]

We prepared the garden bed on Sunday, and I was surprised to find over forty carrots and eight parsnips had overwintered. A bunch of leaves had blown on top of them and protected them through our mild winter. What good luck!

[Thegoblinchief]

Aetherie - Any hardware or garden store will carry organic veggie fertilizer or tomato specific fertilizer (can't remember the difference). You'll just need to do a little math to figure out the surface area of the container so you apply the correct amount.

Your main limitation will be containing the vines as they keep getting longer.

[Sylly]

I wouldn't worry about having too much of anything if you're growing for the first time.  It's better to have great success and be overrun; you can always freeze or can the surplus to eat during the winter.  :)  15 tomato plants is a LOT of tomatoes--but that's great! Out of 16-18 paste tomato plants, I get as much thick sauce canned as we can go through in a year, and I usually have another bed of 12 or plants for fresh eating. We freeze or make salsa out of some of those, eat more than we can handle, and give tons away and tons to the chickens.

You'll more likely run out of space, though.  The key is to do a bit of reading (even on the back of your seed packets) about how much space to give to each plant.  Tomatoes need about 2' square each (I pack mine in at 16"x 18", train them up, and prune like crazy, but I don't get anything else in the bed), especially if they are bush (determinate) not vines (indeterminate), so your 4x8 bed wouldn't likely get much else.  Peppers and tomatillos are pretty happy in big pots, and you could probably squeeze the onions and garlic around the edges of the tomatoes, as long as they don't get shaded out.  Did you want to grow anything else in your bed? Lettuce, carrots..?

In a small space, where your focus isn't preserving, I'd be more inclined to plant about 6 tomato plants tightly across one 8' side of your bed, and then you'd have space for a whole lot of other stuff lower in front (a few peppers and a few tomatillos--or put these in pots).  You'd be able to grow some basil, lettuce, chard, beets, broccoli, etc quite happily that way and have a ton of diverse veggies to eat all summer.

My .02!

Even 6 tomatoes is an awful lot. I usually do tomatoes on 36" spacing if they're indeterminate varieties, so that's a max of 4 over 8 feet and you'll need to let them flop out to one side or they will dominate the bed.

Sure you can't build another bed or two? ;) Or containers?

Thank you for the tips! We didn't start out planning for so many tomatoes. We didn't know how many of the seeds would make it.. turns out, quite a high percentage. Both the tomatoes are indeterminate >.< (which we only learned about after we bought and planted the seeds). We're also planning on some herbs, so we definitely need to figure the space out. There may be room for another 4x4 bed. Maybe. At worst, we can try to give away some of the seedlings come planting time. And good to know about the others being ok in pots. We also have that option if we end up with no space in the bed. As for other veggies, again, we don't know. I think we have bok choy seeds somewhere, and a mix of lettuce. I thought I read somewhere that they're more cool weather plants? We're quickly running out of cool weather in SoCal.

^^ What Backyardfeast said, but the bed should run east-west, so the tomatoes are on the north side of the bed.  If it runs north-south the tomatoes are going to shade out everything else for half the day (good for lettuce, not so good for things that need sun).  I got over-enthusiastic last summer and crowded my tomatoes, and my yield was way down.  Better to give them a bit more space than too little.

Our bed is going to run east-west, as our backyard is south facing. We're planning to put it on a raised level of retaining wall, but there's a higher level on the south side, so the south side of the bed might actually get some shade from that. But we'll definitely keep your advice in mind and try to make sure the tomatoes won't grow to shade the rest of the stuff (if we manage to fit anything else in there..).

[OmahaSteph]

Anyone tried growing their tomatoes upside down in hanging containers? We have a balcony and limited space, so we planned on giving it a try. Is it just a Pinterest fad or is this possible?

[Thegoblinchief]

Anyone tried growing their tomatoes upside down in hanging containers? We have a balcony and limited space, so we planned on giving it a try. Is it just a Pinterest fad or is this possible?

Rural got some last year but I can't recall if she ever said how they turned out.

[backyardfeast]

@aetherie:  That is so cool that your tomatoes are manifesting their perennial selves!  I have always heard legends, but in my cold climes, never dreamed of ever seeing or hearing of such a thing... +1 to goblinchief's advice.  As an aside, just in case it helps, apparently tomato suckers can be rooted.  In other words, if you don't want to keep your original plants going (if they are getting unruly), you should be able to take off a branch with some new growth and stick it in the ground, and it will grow new roots and then pick up where the mother plant left off (ie at the same stage of development).  I've never tried this, but it's always at the back of my mind when I'm doing the major prunings mid-summer...

@Sylly: I forgot to add that tomatoes will grow in pots too, if the pots are big enough.  You won't get the same yield, especially for an indeterminate plant, but my husband has a "no tomato plant left behind" policy, so we do this in emergencies some years! :)

Given that you are in SoCal, don't worry so much about shading.  In fact, come summer, even your tomatoes and peppers may appreciate a little afternoon shading, if only to help keep the moisture in.  Mulch like crazy with whatever you've got, too, to try and keep the roots cooler and damper.  You could likely grow some lettuce now for a few months, but you're right that they won't like the summer much.  I think brassicas (broccolis, cauliflowers, etc) are a bit of a pain in your climate too.  You may want to connect with user Jengod (she has a journal here and I think gardens in SoCal as well) and take a look at the RootSimple blog, if you don't already.  They do some backyard homesteading in LA and have great information.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Tris Prior]

Sylly: This is a great tool for planning out a raised bed:
http://www.gardeners.com/how-to/kitchen-garden-planner/kgp_home.html

You put in the size of your bed, then you drag-n-drop veggies onto each square of the bed diagram. And it'll show you how many plants of each type of veggie/herb you can put in 1 square foot. Tomatoes take up 1 square.

I break the too-many-tomatoes rule all the time. Last year I had 13 or 14 tomato plants in my 4 x 8 bed. I put them right down the center, and all except one did very well. You're not supposed to do that, but I've planted "too many" tomatoes two years in a row now and had good results.

I have seedlings! So exciting! The following have come up: arugula, sugar snap peas, ciopollini onions, 5 kinds of basil, rosemary (looks like crap, though :( ), Thai basil, cilantro, dill. .... I think that is it? The only things that haven't come up are the lemon balm and the cat grass. It helps that it is a gazillion degrees in our apartment, I think; we cannot control our own heat and it's always blasting. No heat mat necessary!

[Jon_Snow]

As a first year veggie gardener in 2015, I thought to plant a plethora of tomatoes to counteract my undeveloped green thumb. Of course, I was SWAMPED in tomatoes. Definitely going to cut down the tomato factor this year.

I am still looking forward to some more tomato-joy this year. Going to start some tomatoes and peppers inside tomorrow.

Here is one our our "behemoths" from last year...when I truly had NO CLUE what the heck I was doing. Mother Nature is forgiving. :)

[Cressida]

That is a lovely tomato. Just curious, how many plants did you have that caused you to be swamped? I've always heard that it's hard to grow tomatoes in the PNW, but I love them.

[Rural]

Anyone tried growing their tomatoes upside down in hanging containers? We have a balcony and limited space, so we planned on giving it a try. Is it just a Pinterest fad or is this possible?

Rural got some last year but I can't recall if she ever said how they turned out.

I'd say a fair result. I planted a Roma in it and wasn't thrilled with its production. I'm thinking of outting a cherry in there this year. Learn from my mistake - get a bush style for the hanging pots.

[OmahaSteph]

Anyone tried growing their tomatoes upside down in hanging containers? We have a balcony and limited space, so we planned on giving it a try. Is it just a Pinterest fad or is this possible?

Rural got some last year but I can't recall if she ever said how they turned out.

I'd say a fair result. I planted a Roma in it and wasn't thrilled with its production. I'm thinking of outting a cherry in there this year. Learn from my mistake - get a bush style for the hanging pots.

Well, crap. We have romas and cherry tomatoes - and a LOT of them, so it couldn't hurt to put some in upside down containers and see what happens. We're still going to have tons in other containers so we can afford a failed experiment or two.

[Jon_Snow]

That is a lovely tomato. Just curious, how many plants did you have that caused you to be swamped? I've always heard that it's hard to grow tomatoes in the PNW, but I love them.

We had around 8 tomato plants. It's funny...for the longest time the tomatoes were doing nothing...then all of a sudden they just exploded with growth and we quickly realized we could not use them up. At some point, when I am properly set up to preserve them...I will happily crank up the production again.

I'm thinking about 5 plants this year...alongside some peppers. As scary as last summer was in terms of the heat and drought conditions...it was pretty great for PNW gardeners and their heat-lovin' crops.

[Kaydedid]

We had around 8 tomato plants. It's funny...for the longest time the tomatoes were doing nothing...then all of a sudden they just exploded with growth and we quickly realized we could not use them up. At some point, when I am properly set up to preserve them...I will happily crank up the production again.

Tomatoes are notorious for coming in all at once.  If you have space, you can pop them in the freezer (no need to blanch), then make sauce at your convenience. 

Started ~140 onions 6 weeks ago, but more than half damped off.  Anyone have any suggestions for ways to make the 72 cell trays lay flat inside a flat?  Trimming the edges off so they don't cling on the sides of the flat?  Had to start watering from the top, because the edge cells are higher and will dry out, and the middle ones will get soggy and damp off.

Starting amaranth and spring broccoli today.  Even if I don't get around to harvesting the grain from the amaranth, it's just plain awesome to grow!  A tiny seedling becomes a 5-6' tall, 3' wide maroon plant with huge tassels/plumes. 

[Knitwit]

I'm delighted (but not surprised!) to find a thread like this. I love veggie gardening. I'm in Zone 3, in the Canadian prairies. My specialty is growing tomatoes and I'm a collector of heirloom seeds. I have very limited gardening space in my suburban backyard, which will hopefully be expanded this year...

My experimental project for this year is going to be growing peppers (mostly sweet, some hot). I have never been able to grow them successfully, probably because it never really gets that warm here (30C/86F is a super hot day) and peppers like heat. I came into some 3-gallon pots over the winter, so I'm going to try growing peppers in pots and see how they do! I just started those seeds this weekend. I'll start tomato seeds in about 2 weeks for planting out at the beginning of June. It's a short season here and I can't wait for it to start!

[Thegoblinchief]

Knitwit- have you tried cloches or low tunnels to increase heat?

[Knitwit]

Thegoblinchief - I haven't tried either of those. I was under the assumption that they were outside of my Mustachian budget, but a quick Google search has proven otherwise! Thanks for the tip! We are hopefully going to be building some new raised beds this year, so I think we'll build them with the framework to add a cloche.

[Kaydedid]

I'm delighted (but not surprised!) to find a thread like this. I love veggie gardening. I'm in Zone 3, in the Canadian prairies. My specialty is growing tomatoes and I'm a collector of heirloom seeds. I have very limited gardening space in my suburban backyard, which will hopefully be expanded this year...

My experimental project for this year is going to be growing peppers (mostly sweet, some hot). I have never been able to grow them successfully, probably because it never really gets that warm here (30C/86F is a super hot day) and peppers like heat. I came into some 3-gallon pots over the winter, so I'm going to try growing peppers in pots and see how they do! I just started those seeds this weekend. I'll start tomato seeds in about 2 weeks for planting out at the beginning of June. It's a short season here and I can't wait for it to start!

Have you tried King of the North sweet peppers?  We're zone 4, so a little warmer here, but even in cold summers this variety produces reliably.

[Tris Prior]

My King of the North produced exactly ONE pepper last summer. The plant looked healthy, but just didn't bear. It was my worst producer of all my peppers. Go figure!

[ender]

We had around 8 tomato plants. It's funny...for the longest time the tomatoes were doing nothing...then all of a sudden they just exploded with growth and we quickly realized we could not use them up. At some point, when I am properly set up to preserve them...I will happily crank up the production again.

I'm thinking about 5 plants this year...alongside some peppers. As scary as last summer was in terms of the heat and drought conditions...it was pretty great for PNW gardeners and their heat-lovin' crops.

I'm hoping we have this "problem" this year. We will have a fairly large plot of land to garden (~750 square feet if we want) and so we're thinking about what to put.

I've been considering making a years worth of tomato sauce and either freezing or potentially dehydrating it and storing it dry. It seems you should be able to dehydrate it, though it might take... a while. We're planning a bunch of peppers too. It seems like you could have tons of extra peppers (red/green/yellow/orange) and cut/freeze these for the rest of the year, for stirfries/etc.

Probably will buy small plants in a few months as we don't have a great place currently to start them but definitely is exciting.

[Knitwit]

I'm delighted (but not surprised!) to find a thread like this. I love veggie gardening. I'm in Zone 3, in the Canadian prairies. My specialty is growing tomatoes and I'm a collector of heirloom seeds. I have very limited gardening space in my suburban backyard, which will hopefully be expanded this year...

My experimental project for this year is going to be growing peppers (mostly sweet, some hot). I have never been able to grow them successfully, probably because it never really gets that warm here (30C/86F is a super hot day) and peppers like heat. I came into some 3-gallon pots over the winter, so I'm going to try growing peppers in pots and see how they do! I just started those seeds this weekend. I'll start tomato seeds in about 2 weeks for planting out at the beginning of June. It's a short season here and I can't wait for it to start!

Have you tried King of the North sweet peppers?  We're zone 4, so a little warmer here, but even in cold summers this variety produces reliably.

I've never tried that particular variety! One year I tried Gypsy and it gave me exactly 3 tiny peppers despite a full summer of nurturing. However, I was trying to grow it on an apartment balcony with limited sun, so that was definitely a contributing factor - haha! I'll check out King of the North for next year.

For those interested, this year I've sown the following pepper varieties:
- Jalapeno
- Shishito
- Marconi
- Jimmy Nardello
- Elephant Ear
- something called "Sweet Red Cherry Pepper"
- something just called "Orange Bell"

Hoping to end up with 1-2 plants of each to experiment with.

[OmahaSteph]

Our lovely early spring turned winter again, so I had to move the seedlings from the balcony greenhouse back into the house on a south-facing bay windowsill. The damn cat apparently has a dirt fetish and when I turned my back for a second, she planted her furry butt right in the cherry tomato planter, squashing most of them. They're young, so hopefully a number of them will bounce back up (survival of the fittest?).

[maco]

That is a lovely tomato. Just curious, how many plants did you have that caused you to be swamped? I've always heard that it's hard to grow tomatoes in the PNW, but I love them.

We had around 8 tomato plants. It's funny...for the longest time the tomatoes were doing nothing...then all of a sudden they just exploded with growth and we quickly realized we could not use them up. At some point, when I am properly set up to preserve them...I will happily crank up the production again.

Yep, that's what determinate tomatoes do: act like bush beans. If you want a long drawn-out harvest, go for indeterminate tomatoes, but realize the vines'll grow up a trellis taller than you.

[wintertell]

Hi everyone -- Hope you are getting excited for growing season! This year is only my second year with a garden, but last year was a great success!

I have two questions for you:

Does this arrangement make sense? Should I reconfigure to better make use of vertical space or plants that grow better together? I am planning on making the tomatoes, squash, zucchini and beans vertical with trellises.

2) Where do you go to buy seeds/do you have recommendations for seeds? My plan is just to go to the local nursery and buy seeds there. Does it make a difference if they are organic, non GMO etc?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

We are planning on starting everything from seeds indoors in the next couple of weeks and then transplanting after the first frost (unless it is the kind of plant that doesn't like to transplanted should just go directly into the ground). This year we are also installing drip irrigation to take some of the daily labor away so we can focus on big tasks on the weekends.

Thank you!!!

[Knitwit]

Hi everyone -- Hope you are getting excited for growing season! This year is only my second year with a garden, but last year was a great success!

I have two questions for you:
1) This link goes to where I have mapped out my raised garden beds:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uB3kSfPTkMChtqE6EfQOe7T8D2LelwU9LZEyo4VZuuI/edit?usp=sharing

Does this arrangement make sense? Should I reconfigure to better make use of vertical space or plants that grow better together? I am planning on making the tomatoes, squash, zucchini and beans vertical with trellises.

2) Where do you go to buy seeds/do you have recommendations for seeds? My plan is just to go to the local nursery and buy seeds there. Does it make a difference if they are organic, non GMO etc?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

We are planning on starting everything from seeds indoors in the next couple of weeks and then transplanting after the first frost (unless it is the kind of plant that doesn't like to transplanted should just go directly into the ground). This year we are also installing drip irrigation to take some of the daily labor away so we can focus on big tasks on the weekends.

Thank you!!!

In my experience, a single zucchini/summer squash plant can easily take up a 3x3 foot area. You may want to rework that section of things, but otherwise it looks great. Happy growing!

Edit to clarify: Even with trellising, they take up a lot of space.

[RetiredAt63]

Hi wintertell

You don't say where you are, but mention frost, so I am assuming not deep south.  I am coming from a cold climate perspective, so adjust anything I say according to your growing conditions.

Re your beds, for your tomato bed you could have the 4 tomatoes in a row along the north side, and then the basil (and other smaller plants) in front of them.  This assumes they are all trellised/tied up tomato varieties - do you want tomatoes gradually or all at once?  Determinate (in a cage) tend to be all at once, the indeterminate are a bit slower to get going but produce over a longer season.  What you choose depends on what you want, neither is "better".  Anyway, you can actually have the tall tomatoes in just as small a space as the bush ones, you just have to keep them to one or at most 2 stems as you tie them up.  Of course that means eternal vigilance, they will send out suckers if you give them any kind of a chance.  The basil likes lots of sun (at least here) so it is better in front than buried in between plants.  If you are in a super hot area the basil will need a lot of water if it is in full sun.

Re seed sources - I am starting to shift to organic seeds, because this rationale makes sense to me (http://highmowingseeds.com/why-buy-organic-seeds.html). 

The big seed companies try to carry varieties that will do well over a wide range of growing conditions.  That works for lots of gardeners.  If you have unusual growing conditions, then local seed houses may carry seeds that will work better for you.  I am in south-eastern Ontario, so I look at days to maturity very carefully.  I would rather have a plant with a slightly lower yield than one that is wonderful, but is dead from frost too soon.  If I were in Texas my growing criteria would be totally different.  But you can be fine with the big seed companies, just be careful about your choice of variety.

Happy gardening!

[RetiredAt63]

Garden progress - we have gone from a few days at +10C back to below freezing - and there is still snow to come. 
I started a lot of sweet peppers, I give a lot of started plants away and I wasn't sure about germination from last year's seeds.   I start peppers and tomatoes in damp paper towel in the oven (light on for heat) and as soon as the root shows I pot them up.  I now have potentially 138 pepper plants.  I think I can stop as of tomorrow, I have 6 places left in the pots for peppers.
Time to think of tomatoes, sweet potatoes, and ornamentals.

[wintertell]

Hi wintertell

You don't say where you are, but mention frost, so I am assuming not deep south.  I am coming from a cold climate perspective, so adjust anything I say according to your growing conditions.

Re your beds, for your tomato bed you could have the 4 tomatoes in a row along the north side, and then the basil (and other smaller plants) in front of them.  This assumes they are all trellised/tied up tomato varieties - do you want tomatoes gradually or all at once?  Determinate (in a cage) tend to be all at once, the indeterminate are a bit slower to get going but produce over a longer season.  What you choose depends on what you want, neither is "better".  Anyway, you can actually have the tall tomatoes in just as small a space as the bush ones, you just have to keep them to one or at most 2 stems as you tie them up.  Of course that means eternal vigilance, they will send out suckers if you give them any kind of a chance.  The basil likes lots of sun (at least here) so it is better in front than buried in between plants.  If you are in a super hot area the basil will need a lot of water if it is in full sun.

Re seed sources - I am starting to shift to organic seeds, because this rationale makes sense to me (http://highmowingseeds.com/why-buy-organic-seeds.html). 

The big seed companies try to carry varieties that will do well over a wide range of growing conditions.  That works for lots of gardeners.  If you have unusual growing conditions, then local seed houses may carry seeds that will work better for you.  I am in south-eastern Ontario, so I look at days to maturity very carefully.  I would rather have a plant with a slightly lower yield than one that is wonderful, but is dead from frost too soon.  If I were in Texas my growing criteria would be totally different.  But you can be fine with the big seed companies, just be careful about your choice of variety.

Happy gardening!

Thanks Retiredat63! I am in the Midatlantic region.  I know I want Roma (bush) and that I will want at least 1 indeterminate kind. I am undecided as to the other 1 or 2 tomato plants.  I can also put Basil in the herb garden and just make that entire 2x4 area tomatoes.

[Jon_Snow]

Alright...an update.

This past several days saw peas, potatoes, onion sets, lettuce, spinach sowed in the island garden. My onion seedlings are doing great...but a little worried about my cabbage seedlings. They are looking a little stressed and I'll be great dissapointed if they don't make to transplanting outside when I get back from my Mexico trip. Not sure what happened with them. :(

Just 4 days after staring tomatoes inside on a heat mat, I've got Big Beef and Oregon Spring varieties poking their heads out today...still waiting on the Roma's and Sungold's.

[backyardfeast]

J_S, I wonder if it may be a little warm and dry for your brassicas (if they are indoors on your heat mat)?  They do like the cool and damp weather?  You could take them off the heat, leave them under the lights.  I'm not sure, too, if you are fertilizing your seedlings?  If you've just used regular seed starting mix, and the brassicas have got a few true leaves up, they may be hungry for some nitrogen.  A diluted mix of liquid fish and liquid kelp in your watering can once a week might make a big difference, especially if they're just looking a little pale.

Good luck--I'm sure everything will hold on until you're back!  (And if not, that's what nursery starts are for... :) )

[OmahaSteph]

Okay, speaking of liquid fish and liquid kelp, any Mustachian suggestions for fertilizer if you don't/can't have a compost pile? When we used to have fish tanks, we'd just dump the dirty water on the roses and they flourished, but not to great for things you'll be EATING.

I tried a balcony compost bin once and it was a miserable, disgusting FAIL. I hate the idea of buying fertilizer or fish emulsion at the store for such a small garden, but is that the only option?

[backyardfeast]

You could try a worm bin and vermi-compost under the kitchen sink?  Worm castings are amazing fertilizer for balcony gardens.

Truthfully, though, compost isn't necessarily a substitute for fertilizer.  I use both fertilizer and various other amendments like manures and composts and mulches (straw, seaweed, hay, woodchips, etc) in the garden.  Some nitrogen, in particular, is usually necessary, and fish/kelp is probably the most natural and bio-available way to get it to your plants.  Once I plant crops out, I usually add a home-blended, slow-release fertilizer of alfalfa meal, lime, bone meal, kelp meal to make sure the plants will get the nutrients they need to grow their best.

This is actually a bit of a controversial and complex topic in organic farming circles, and an evolving area of scientific study.  But my understanding is that compost/worm castings/mulches, etc add organic matter to the soil and improve it's "tilth".  When these are optimum, plants are better able to access whatever nutrients they need that are present in the soil.  But they are limited by what nutrients are present, and serious gardeners will often get detailed soil tests to figure out what nutrients are lacking and how to bring them up.  Nitrogen needs to be constantly provided--either through manures, living mulches that fix nitrogen (like clovers), or green mulches like grass clippings that you leave to break down and release it's nitrogen into the soil next to the crop.  My compost is basically chicken bedding, so I assume there is still quite a bit of nitrogen available in it, but depending on how hot my pile got, I may also have burned a lot of it off.  My small amount of slow-release fertilizer I see as a safety net. :)

Do avoid the regular, commercial liquid fertilizers (Miracle-Gro, etc).  They're fine in a pinch, but they are nutrients basically in a salt solution, and they "force feed" the plants.  The plants can't regulate their own uptake of these nutrients, so it's a bit like a fast food diet.  OK for a short-term fix, but don't lead to strong, healthy plants if that's all they get.

K-that was a long answer to your short question! Hope it helps... :)

[OmahaSteph]

You could try a worm bin and vermi-compost under the kitchen sink?  Worm castings are amazing fertilizer for balcony gardens.

Truthfully, though, compost isn't necessarily a substitute for fertilizer.  I use both fertilizer and various other amendments like manures and composts and mulches (straw, seaweed, hay, woodchips, etc) in the garden.  Some nitrogen, in particular, is usually necessary, and fish/kelp is probably the most natural and bio-available way to get it to your plants.  Once I plant crops out, I usually add a home-blended, slow-release fertilizer of alfalfa meal, lime, bone meal, kelp meal to make sure the plants will get the nutrients they need to grow their best.

This is actually a bit of a controversial and complex topic in organic farming circles, and an evolving area of scientific study.  But my understanding is that compost/worm castings/mulches, etc add organic matter to the soil and improve it's "tilth".  When these are optimum, plants are better able to access whatever nutrients they need that are present in the soil.  But they are limited by what nutrients are present, and serious gardeners will often get detailed soil tests to figure out what nutrients are lacking and how to bring them up.  Nitrogen needs to be constantly provided--either through manures, living mulches that fix nitrogen (like clovers), or green mulches like grass clippings that you leave to break down and release it's nitrogen into the soil next to the crop.  My compost is basically chicken bedding, so I assume there is still quite a bit of nitrogen available in it, but depending on how hot my pile got, I may also have burned a lot of it off.  My small amount of slow-release fertilizer I see as a safety net. :)

Do avoid the regular, commercial liquid fertilizers (Miracle-Gro, etc).  They're fine in a pinch, but they are nutrients basically in a salt solution, and they "force feed" the plants.  The plants can't regulate their own uptake of these nutrients, so it's a bit like a fast food diet.  OK for a short-term fix, but don't lead to strong, healthy plants if that's all they get.

K-that was a long answer to your short question! Hope it helps... :)

Yes and no :)

Back when my ex and I grew award-winning roses, we did a lot of what you mentioned above - fish emulsion, bone meal, lime, etc. plus a nice compost pile. Now I'm relegated to balcony and container gardening in small quantities. I suppose I should befriend a local gardener and barter for small quantities of their compost and fertilizer cocktails. :)

[Kaydedid]

My King of the North produced exactly ONE pepper last summer. The plant looked healthy, but just didn't bear. It was my worst producer of all my peppers. Go figure!

Have you tried epsom salts around the base of the plant?  MIL swears by it.

[monstermonster]

I'm growing hot peppers this summer as my #1 goal on my balcony in containers and I have a question - since starts for the weird a** type of peppers I want to grow are not available at stores, I need to sow from seed/make my own starts. But I also live in a one-bedroom apartment with one window and a cat who likes to investigate everything.

Can I start peppers from seeds by making little greenhouses by wrapping grow-packs in cling wrap to keep them warm/keep the kitten out? It's totally nuts to try to start them outside in containers, right? We won't frost again here but it's still hovering between 45-55 most days and can get down to 35 overnight if it's really cold.

[maco]

Hi wintertell

You don't say where you are, but mention frost, so I am assuming not deep south.  I am coming from a cold climate perspective, so adjust anything I say according to your growing conditions.

Re your beds, for your tomato bed you could have the 4 tomatoes in a row along the north side, and then the basil (and other smaller plants) in front of them.  This assumes they are all trellised/tied up tomato varieties - do you want tomatoes gradually or all at once?  Determinate (in a cage) tend to be all at once, the indeterminate are a bit slower to get going but produce over a longer season.  What you choose depends on what you want, neither is "better".  Anyway, you can actually have the tall tomatoes in just as small a space as the bush ones, you just have to keep them to one or at most 2 stems as you tie them up.  Of course that means eternal vigilance, they will send out suckers if you give them any kind of a chance.  The basil likes lots of sun (at least here) so it is better in front than buried in between plants.  If you are in a super hot area the basil will need a lot of water if it is in full sun.

Re seed sources - I am starting to shift to organic seeds, because this rationale makes sense to me (http://highmowingseeds.com/why-buy-organic-seeds.html). 

The big seed companies try to carry varieties that will do well over a wide range of growing conditions.  That works for lots of gardeners.  If you have unusual growing conditions, then local seed houses may carry seeds that will work better for you.  I am in south-eastern Ontario, so I look at days to maturity very carefully.  I would rather have a plant with a slightly lower yield than one that is wonderful, but is dead from frost too soon.  If I were in Texas my growing criteria would be totally different.  But you can be fine with the big seed companies, just be careful about your choice of variety.

Happy gardening!

Thanks Retiredat63! I am outside of DC - so in the Midatlantic region.  I know I want Roma (bush) and that I will want at least 1 indeterminate kind. I am undecided as to the other 1 or 2 tomato plants.  I can also put Basil in the herb garden and just make that entire 2x4 area tomatoes.

I picked up an Opalka tomato plant at Maryland Sheep & Wool Festival two years ago. They're delicious! They're an indeterminate paste tomato, very low on seeds, and shaped like peppers.