Mortgage Payoff Club!!

[BlueHouse]

I agree! Maybe he thinks we are idiots

People on this forum will say just about anything to justify what they want to do. 
Why shouldn't I ask how costly of a decision that is?

Because you've entered an ongoing celebration for like-minded people who want the support and encouragement of other like-minded folks, and instead of offering a positive attitude, you're telling other adults that their decisions are stupid for no reason other than to hear yourself talk and to "win at the internet".  This isn't the appropriate place.

How about you pick another topic that exists for debate and go visit THAT group for a while? 

[pdxmonkey]

I agree! Maybe he thinks we are idiots

People on this forum will say just about anything to justify what they want to do. 
Why shouldn't I ask how costly of a decision that is?

Because you've entered an ongoing celebration for like-minded people who want the support and encouragement of other like-minded folks, and instead of offering a positive attitude, you're telling other adults that their decisions are stupid for no reason other than to hear yourself talk and to "win at the internet".  This isn't the appropriate place.

How about you pick another topic that exists for debate and go visit THAT group for a while?

The poster is clearly a tool who hasn't read the entire thread. Do you think he tells people who user bonds or treasuries to diversify their portfolio the same thing? Paying your mortgage is not dis similar to purchasing a bond. If you have a sufficient amount going into equities already... And you want to have a person of your money go to something lower risk with a lower return paying the mortgage early is one option for that. I already have something like 60-70% of my post tax income going into equities. I really don't need all of it to go there

[farmecologist]

I agree! Maybe he thinks we are idiots

People on this forum will say just about anything to justify what they want to do. 
Why shouldn't I ask how costly of a decision that is?

Because you've entered an ongoing celebration for like-minded people who want the support and encouragement of other like-minded folks, and instead of offering a positive attitude, you're telling other adults that their decisions are stupid for no reason other than to hear yourself talk and to "win at the internet".  This isn't the appropriate place.

How about you pick another topic that exists for debate and go visit THAT group for a while?

The poster is clearly a tool who hasn't read the entire thread. Do you think he tells people who user bonds or treasuries to diversify their portfolio the same thing? Paying your mortgage is not dis similar to purchasing a bond. If you have a sufficient amount going into equities already... And you want to have a person of your money go to something lower risk with a lower return paying the mortgage early is one option for that. I already have something like 60-70% of my post tax income going into equities. I really don't need all of it to go there

Just a reminder...but if someone wants to hang out with the "anti-pay-off-your-mortage" crowd..there is a thread for that too!

    https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/dont-payoff-your-mortgage-club/

[runewell]

Because you've entered an ongoing celebration for like-minded people who want the support and encouragement of other like-minded folks, and instead of offering a positive attitude, you're telling other adults that their decisions are stupid for no reason other than to hear yourself talk and to "win at the internet".  This isn't the appropriate place.

It's the perfect place for that reason, because some people should probably be lamenting their decision, not celebrating it.
I'm all for asset allocation and when my 15-yr mortgage is paid off in my late 50's I won't have any plans to remortgage or anything.
But when people say that being debt-free is more important than the math, I assume that they haven't done the math - and I wouldn't be surprised if many people were incapable of doing the math.  And I think it's important to say something because the failure to retain low-interest-rate auto and home loans is a real wealth killer around here.

[theadvicist]

Because you've entered an ongoing celebration for like-minded people who want the support and encouragement of other like-minded folks, and instead of offering a positive attitude, you're telling other adults that their decisions are stupid for no reason other than to hear yourself talk and to "win at the internet".  This isn't the appropriate place.

It's the perfect place for that reason, because some people should probably be lamenting their decision, not celebrating it.
I'm all for asset allocation and when my 15-yr mortgage is paid off in my late 50's I won't have any plans to remortgage or anything.
But when people say that being debt-free is more important than the math, I assume that they haven't done the math - and I wouldn't be surprised if many people were incapable of doing the math.  And I think it's important to say something because the failure to retain low-interest-rate auto and home loans is a real wealth killer around here.

I think it's important to say something when people are being rude. Runewell, I am sure you are trying to help, but you are being rude. It's like you a butting in on a conversation to correct people, but you weren't in the conversation to start with. Yes, this is an open forum, anyone can comment, etc etc. But why not just be nice? Claiming people are 'incapable of maths' when you have already been politely told a couple of times that this thread is intended for celebrations seems very mean spirited to me.

[BlueHouse]

Because you've entered an ongoing celebration for like-minded people who want the support and encouragement of other like-minded folks, and instead of offering a positive attitude, you're telling other adults that their decisions are stupid for no reason other than to hear yourself talk and to "win at the internet".  This isn't the appropriate place.

It's the perfect place for that reason, because some people should probably be lamenting their decision, not celebrating it.
I'm all for asset allocation and when my 15-yr mortgage is paid off in my late 50's I won't have any plans to remortgage or anything.
But when people say that being debt-free is more important than the math, I assume that they haven't done the math - and I wouldn't be surprised if many people were incapable of doing the math.  And I think it's important to say something because the failure to retain low-interest-rate auto and home loans is a real wealth killer around here.

Now that I know your circumstances, perhaps you need to realize that you have NO IDEA of the circumstances of the other people here.  For instance, many of us have a goal of paying off a 30-year mortgage within 15 years -- the same as you!  But we may need more flexibility in the payment schedule.  So we call it paying off early.  There is literally no difference, other than we may pay a slightly higher interest rate in return for flexibility. 

Anyway, I don't want to argue as this is a space for celebration and encouragement and really no debate is necessary as the title of the thread says it all -- we've already decided a course of action that is appropriate for our circumstances, so no comment from you is necessary or desired. 

[runewell]

Anyway, I don't want to argue as this is a space for celebration and encouragement and really no debate is necessary as the title of the thread says it all

If you go back and read the original first page of this thread, you'll see there is a lot more to this thread than just celebration.  If this thread has turned into complete celebration, that means there probably aren't enough of us discouraging the accelerated paydown of a mortgage.   

[runewell]

Now that I know your circumstances, perhaps you need to realize that you have NO IDEA of the circumstances of the other people here.  For instance, many of us have a goal of paying off a 30-year mortgage within 15 years -- the same as you!  But we may need more flexibility in the payment schedule.  So we call it paying off early.  There is literally no difference, other than we may pay a slightly higher interest rate in return for flexibility. 

This isn't the same as me, I am paying down a 15-yr mortgage in 15 years.  If you need more flexibility in the payment schedule, then perhaps your emergency fund isn't big enough or you have too much house.  Nevertheless the same principle applies: if your 30-yr mortgage is anywhere near 4% or less you will probably come ahead long-term by not paying down your mortgage early and will probably lose out on wealth as a result. 

But you are right, I don't know everyone's circumstances.  A paydown could be sensible from a risk tolerance / asset allocation point of view.  But not knowing individual details, I certainly wouldn't jump to that conclusion.   

[pdxmonkey]

So... why didn't you get a 30 year mortgage and invest the difference in payment with a 15 year mortgage? Clearly you haven't done the math. Nobody should use a 15 year mortgage when a 30 year mortgage is available for just .25% higher. Let's say you took a 100000 15 year at 3.5% instead of 30 at 3.75%. the payment will be 715 instead of 463. If you put the 252 into equities every month with just an 8% return you would have 87,782.98 extra after 15 years. Why are you throwing this away? Compare this to the less than 10000 extra you would have paid in interest and your 15 year loan is clearly a bad decision.

[BlueHouse]

So... why didn't you get a 30 year mortgage and invest the difference in payment with a 15 year mortgage? Clearly you haven't done the math. Nobody should use a 15 year mortgage when a 30 year mortgage is available for just .25% higher. Let's say you took a 100000 15 year at 3.5% instead of 30 at 3.75%. the payment will be 715 instead of 463. If you put the 252 into equities every month with just an 8% return you would have 87,782.98 extra after 15 years. Why are you throwing this away? Compare this to the less than 10000 extra you would have paid in interest and your 15 year loan is clearly a bad decision.

Or better yet, why not an interest-only loan? 

[talltexan]

That 0.25% difference between 30-year and 15-year sounds low. Did you buy down points?

I'd expect a rate difference ofsomething more like 0.6%, perhaps even greater.

[DesireeD]

Paid off our mortgage on the 25th of this month. Still feels like it's not real. That's been our goal for years. I've always told my husband he can't buy things until the mortgage is paid and now that it is, he doesn't want any of that stuff anymore. Mustashian people problems.

[theadvicist]

Paid off our mortgage on the 25th of this month. Still feels like it's not real. That's been our goal for years. I've always told my husband he can't buy things until the mortgage is paid and now that it is, he doesn't want any of that stuff anymore. Mustashian people problems.

Amazing DesireeD, well done!

[Rowellen]

Paid off our mortgage on the 25th of this month. Still feels like it's not real. That's been our goal for years. I've always told my husband he can't buy things until the mortgage is paid and now that it is, he doesn't want any of that stuff anymore. Mustashian people problems.

Congratulations!

[runewell]

So... why didn't you get a 30 year mortgage and invest the difference in payment with a 15 year mortgage? Clearly you haven't done the math. Nobody should use a 15 year mortgage when a 30 year mortgage is available for just .25% higher.

The difference is usually 1/2 or even 3/4 of a pt.  And I will be nearly 60 when the mortgage is paid off, at which time my risk tolerance will be lower than it was four years ago when I started the 15-yr countdown.  I was quite happy to borrow at 2.625% before any tax advantages.

[talltexan]

Didn't Dodd-Frank make negative amortization loans and Option loans illegal?

Asking for a friend.

[BlueHouse]

So... why didn't you get a 30 year mortgage and invest the difference in payment with a 15 year mortgage? Clearly you haven't done the math. Nobody should use a 15 year mortgage when a 30 year mortgage is available for just .25% higher.

The difference is usually 1/2 or even 3/4 of a pt.  And I will be nearly 60 when the mortgage is paid off, at which time my risk tolerance will be lower than it was four years ago when I started the 15-yr countdown.  I was quite happy to borrow at 2.625% before any tax advantages.

OMG, I can't believe I've wasted my time arguing with someone whose strategy is even more conservative than mine!  Runewell, you're not holding your mortgage, you're paying it off early! 

[SAfAmBrit]

Principal paid off so far

2012 - $3415
2013 - $3994
2014 - $8483
2015 - $38412 (yup got rid of all the debt and $10 000 windfall not expected)
2016 - $67650
2017 - $26674

3/1 Remaining balance $87322. Projected pay off date 09/09/2017 - SO 51st birthday.

4/1 Remaining balance $81837

4/30 Remaining balance $76952 (I owed the tax man!)

5/29 Remaining balance $73836

6/30 Remaining balance $65388

7/29 Remaining balance $60825

8/31 Remaining balance $55728

9/30 Remaining balance $49696

10/31 Remaining balance $39920

11/30 Remaining balance $36721

01/05 Remaining balance $34633

01/29 Remaining balance $32965

02/23 Remaining balance $26692

03/29 Remaining Balance $17963

04/27 Remaining balance $12903
 
Jet fuel ever present! I will be in four figures next month - it is unbelievable

5/11 - sorry couldn't wait - needed to share with people who understand - 4 figure party - $9000.

[iluvzbeach]

Woo hoo! Nice work.

[Rowellen]

Fantastic. Great effort!

[couponvan]

Amazing!! You are right on target or ahead of your projections!!

[Neustache]

Have an offer on our rental - for about 20K more than I thought I'd fetch.  Should it sell, will have about 55K to throw at our 83K mortgage on our residence.  Stay tuned...closing date set for 6/16. 

[talltexan]

Neustache-
on your rental, how many months would it have taken to roll up the $20K through just rental profits?

[Neustache]

I have no idea.  LOL.  I became a landlord because when we moved the market was rough in my neighborhood and the realtor thought we'd maybe get 85K for the house.  So 3.5 years later it's selling for 35K more than that (and more importantly, I'm not a landlord anymore).  So as far as profit goes....the profit was in the waiting, but my numbers weren't great as a landlord.  I was renting it for too little because I started off too low (780 a month at the end) but I should have been charging at least 850.  I'm really not sure how to calculate that.  Let's just say I am super happy to be out (if we do in fact close!). 

[Rowellen]

Have an offer on our rental - for about 20K more than I thought I'd fetch.  Should it sell, will have about 55K to throw at our 83K mortgage on our residence.  Stay tuned...closing date set for 6/16.

Since I'm planning to do the same thing, I say sell. My rental is generally cash flow neutral or slightly negative. The capital gain is great though. I could use the equity to pay down my mortgage and save $300 a month in interest. YMMV.

[Neustache]

Oh, it's under contract.  I just used to work at a title company so I know a contract does not equal a sell.  Sorry for the awkward wording!!

[Rowellen]

I see. I read it as a question. Silly me.
In any case, congrats and good luck on the sale.

[markbike528CBX]

Just put in 31% of the small remaining principle balance.   New service agent website for the credit union.  Will check tomorrow to see if things went well.  I've never had a principle-only payment go right the first time, yet.   I don't think anyone can deal with the concept of paying debt off early.

[Comar]

74k left. Finished in the next 3 years if things go as planned.

[Neustache]

Just put in 31% of the small remaining principle balance.   New service agent website for the credit union.  Will check tomorrow to see if things went well.  I've never had a principle-only payment go right the first time, yet.   I don't think anyone can deal with the concept of paying debt off early.

Our credit union did a revamp on their site and now there's not even an option for a principal only payment.  Guess we'll have to go to the bank to make our large payments!

[Rowellen]

What does it go to if it doesn't go to principal? That seems really odd to me as any extra payment I make comes straight off the balance owing. I am in Australia if that makes a difference.

[markbike528CBX]

Rowellen:
The payment some times is applied instead of a monthly payment, which screws up payment schedule
or is applied like a really big monthly payment, with proportional principle and interest
or is screwed up in some other fashion ( details forgotton) that I've had to correct at the bank in person.

[BlueHouse]

What does it go to if it doesn't go to principal? That seems really odd to me as any extra payment I make comes straight off the balance owing. I am in Australia if that makes a difference.

My bank (WF) applies 100% of extra payment to principal -- unless the "extra" exceeds the entire amount of the monthly payment.  Here are examples:

Assume monthly mortgage payment = $2000

ex1:  Pay $2001-$3999.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $1-$1999 toward Principal.
ex2:  Pay $4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment.  No decrease in interest owed, you've just paid one month in advance.  You either have to NOT pay the next month, or call the bank to get them to correct it.
ex3:  Pay >$4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment, and uses any amount over $4000 to go to principal.

For whatever reason, there is no way for me to tell my bank that I want ALL extra payments, EVERY time, to go straight to principal.  I have to call to tell them every month.  So I've given up on that.  Now I just pay $3999 automatically and if I want to make an extra payment, I save it up and walk into the bank when it's worth my while to do it. 

[runewell]

What does it go to if it doesn't go to principal? That seems really odd to me as any extra payment I make comes straight off the balance owing. I am in Australia if that makes a difference.

My bank (WF) applies 100% of extra payment to principal -- unless the "extra" exceeds the entire amount of the monthly payment.  Here are examples:

Assume monthly mortgage payment = $2000

ex1:  Pay $2001-$3999.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $1-$1999 toward Principal.
ex2:  Pay $4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment.  No decrease in interest owed, you've just paid one month in advance.  You either have to NOT pay the next month, or call the bank to get them to correct it.
ex3:  Pay >$4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment, and uses any amount over $4000 to go to principal.

For whatever reason, there is no way for me to tell my bank that I want ALL extra payments, EVERY time, to go straight to principal.  I have to call to tell them every month.  So I've given up on that.  Now I just pay $3999 automatically and if I want to make an extra payment, I save it up and walk into the bank when it's worth my while to do it.

It sounds like those payments are all going to principal, what you have to do is keep making payments every month rather than relying on the bank to do it for you?

[BlueHouse]

What does it go to if it doesn't go to principal? That seems really odd to me as any extra payment I make comes straight off the balance owing. I am in Australia if that makes a difference.

My bank (WF) applies 100% of extra payment to principal -- unless the "extra" exceeds the entire amount of the monthly payment.  Here are examples:

Assume monthly mortgage payment = $2000

ex1:  Pay $2001-$3999.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $1-$1999 toward Principal.
ex2:  Pay $4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment.  No decrease in interest owed, you've just paid one month in advance.  You either have to NOT pay the next month, or call the bank to get them to correct it.
ex3:  Pay >$4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment, and uses any amount over $4000 to go to principal.

For whatever reason, there is no way for me to tell my bank that I want ALL extra payments, EVERY time, to go straight to principal.  I have to call to tell them every month.  So I've given up on that.  Now I just pay $3999 automatically and if I want to make an extra payment, I save it up and walk into the bank when it's worth my while to do it.

It sounds like those payments are all going to principal, what you have to do is keep making payments every month rather than relying on the bank to do it for you?

Not sure I understand your last part.   As for the first part,  in examples #2 & #3, the bank essentially holds $2000 of the money until the following month, and then they apply the second $2000 as $700 to principal, and the rest to interest and escrow.  So I've loaned them $2000 for a month, and there is no interest reduction to me for paying early, because in the bank's eyes, I didn't pay early.
Yes, I make payments every month as is required. 

[Indio]

My mortgage is held by wf too and they don't process it that way for me. When I make an additional principal payment it goes directly toward reducing principal that month. As a result, the following month shows a drop in interest and increase toward paying down the balance.

[Rowellen]

What does it go to if it doesn't go to principal? That seems really odd to me as any extra payment I make comes straight off the balance owing. I am in Australia if that makes a difference.

My bank (WF) applies 100% of extra payment to principal -- unless the "extra" exceeds the entire amount of the monthly payment.  Here are examples:

Assume monthly mortgage payment = $2000

ex1:  Pay $2001-$3999.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $1-$1999 toward Principal.
ex2:  Pay $4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment.  No decrease in interest owed, you've just paid one month in advance.  You either have to NOT pay the next month, or call the bank to get them to correct it.
ex3:  Pay >$4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment, and uses any amount over $4000 to go to principal.

For whatever reason, there is no way for me to tell my bank that I want ALL extra payments, EVERY time, to go straight to principal.  I have to call to tell them every month.  So I've given up on that.  Now I just pay $3999 automatically and if I want to make an extra payment, I save it up and walk into the bank when it's worth my while to do it.

That sounds like pure thievery to me.

Kind of confirms my opinion of banks as evil thieving criminal institutions that are unfortunately necessary.

[BlueHouse]

What does it go to if it doesn't go to principal? That seems really odd to me as any extra payment I make comes straight off the balance owing. I am in Australia if that makes a difference.

My bank (WF) applies 100% of extra payment to principal -- unless the "extra" exceeds the entire amount of the monthly payment.  Here are examples:

Assume monthly mortgage payment = $2000

ex1:  Pay $2001-$3999.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $1-$1999 toward Principal.
ex2:  Pay $4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment.  No decrease in interest owed, you've just paid one month in advance.  You either have to NOT pay the next month, or call the bank to get them to correct it.
ex3:  Pay >$4000.  Bank uses $2000 toward PITI as usual, and uses the extra $2000 toward the following month's payment, and uses any amount over $4000 to go to principal.

For whatever reason, there is no way for me to tell my bank that I want ALL extra payments, EVERY time, to go straight to principal.  I have to call to tell them every month.  So I've given up on that.  Now I just pay $3999 automatically and if I want to make an extra payment, I save it up and walk into the bank when it's worth my while to do it.

That sounds like pure thievery to me.

Kind of confirms my opinion of banks as evil thieving criminal institutions that are unfortunately necessary.

Well, to be fair, they will adjust it if I call and ask them to.  And now that I understand how WF does it, I can follow the rules.  It's a pain, but think of it like any financial tool -- learn the rules and then learn how to navigate the system.  It does suck that the default stance of banks is to make things more difficult for their customers.  It seems as if most of the financial world is set up stop that there are only winners and losers and there are rarely win-win situations.  :(

[KBecks]

Our mortgage holder is the same as example #2, but, if I pay by check on the monthly statement, I can designate additional principal, just then -- once a month.  So I've gone to paper payments.  I haven't figured out how to make a larger payment automatically.

But this works, and since we're hacking away at the principal at a pretty steady pace,  it will only be another year or so of goofing around with it!

[cheddarpie]

My bank also defaults extra payments to be "early payments" (of P&I) instead of just additional principal -- you have to be careful to specify any extra payments are principal only.

In the meantime, I'm down to $5k ...! If I just do the regular automatic payments it will be done by the 5-year anniversary of the loan (my original goal) in the fall. But there's a good chance I'll just knock it out for my birthday in June. Woohoo!

And congrats to everyone else who's making such great progress!

[runewell]

My bank also defaults extra payments to be "early payments" (of P&I) instead of just additional principal -- you have to be careful to specify any extra payments are principal only.

In the meantime, I'm down to $5k ...! If I just do the regular automatic payments it will be done by the 5-year anniversary of the loan (my original goal) in the fall. But there's a good chance I'll just knock it out for my birthday in June. Woohoo!

And congrats to everyone else who's making such great progress!

What is your interest rate?  And what do you plan to do once the mortgage is paid off?

[KBecks]

Principal $65,500
Principal Payments $5,800
New Balance (June 2017)  $59,700

I really waffled on whether to keep whacking at it, but we will stick with the original idea and target the final payoff a little less than a year.

[SAfAmBrit]

Principal paid off so far

2012 - $3415
2013 - $3994
2014 - $8483
2015 - $38412 (yup got rid of all the debt and $10 000 windfall not expected)
2016 - $67650
2017 - $29974

3/1 Remaining balance $87322. Projected pay off date 09/09/2017 - SO 51st birthday.

4/1 Remaining balance $81837

4/30 Remaining balance $76952 (I owed the tax man!)

5/29 Remaining balance $73836

6/30 Remaining balance $65388

7/29 Remaining balance $60825

8/31 Remaining balance $55728

9/30 Remaining balance $49696

10/31 Remaining balance $39920

11/30 Remaining balance $36721

01/05 Remaining balance $34633

01/29 Remaining balance $32965

02/23 Remaining balance $26692

03/29 Remaining Balance $17963

04/27 Remaining balance $12903
 
05/26 Remaining balance $5700

Well I log on - look at it - laugh - log off - then look again. The worst part - I think I am short to pay it off in June - so expected date is 07/01. I really could smell the jet fuel a few days ago - my husband works for the air force and he was playing in the jet fuel tanks. It made me laugh! Thank-you for all the positive comments - I really appreciate them.

[iluvzbeach]

I can barely contain my excitement and since I can't broadcast this on a billboard, FB or outloud with friends, I thought I'd let you MMMers know we paid off our mortgage today. We had a ridiculous amount in a cash account, so I convinced DH we should just bite the bullet and wire proceeds to pay it off. It's a bit surreal, but feels really good.

I feel like the doors are now wide open for me to post an Epic FU Money story, but I'll wait until I'm totally FIRE.

Hip Hip Hooray <hops off into sunset with glass o'wine>

[Indio]

Way to go luvzbeach. I hope to join you in that feeling soon. The unbearable lightness of being mortgage free.

[dreaming]

Congrats iluvzbeach!  Looking forward to hearing your epic FU story one day.

[SAfAmBrit]

Congrats Iluvzbeach - hope to be drinking in the sunset with you very shortly.

[iluvzbeach]

Thanks so much for the kind words, they are much appreciated. I checked the mortgage site over the weekend and loved seeing "Paid In Full."

I said to my DH this morning "Hey, we're the people with the paid off house!"

[YoungGranny]

Congratulations iluvzbeach!! That is awesome!

[BlueHouse]

Thanks so much for the kind words, they are much appreciated. I checked the mortgage site over the weekend and loved seeing "Paid In Full."

I said to my DH this morning "Hey, we're the people with the paid off house!"

I luv reading these stories because they inspire me!  Congratulations!