Author Topic: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge  (Read 22759 times)

brute

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2018, 10:07:11 AM »
I'm always down for a Keto challenge. I went from ~380 down to 213 over 14 months many years ago. I kept it off for about 5 years, then became a competitive strongman and gained some weight on purpose, plus some more not on purpose.

This year my goal with keto is to find the right level for me. No carbs and training as hard as i do is a no go. I'm at ~140g of carbs a day right now and still in ketosis, and that's working will. I'll slowly dial it down to 100g a day over the next month and see how that goes.

Dude, how much are you training to be able to stay in keto on 140 g?  And how tall and old are you?  Men def have a metabolic advantage, especially younger men compared to older women (me!) 

Welcome.  I'm glad you can join us.  Would love to hear how you went from 380 to 213 in just over a year.

I'm 6'5", early 30s. I weigh in at 302 right now with ~260 pounds of fat free mass. I train 4 times a week in a normal gym, it usually takes 90 minutes. Cardio 2x a week, and an implements training session on saturdays that lasts ~6 hours. I keep my carb intake to an hour before and an hour after training so that they get burned or used to refill glycogen stores instead of just floating around going to my gut.

Back 2008 I was diagnosed with type II diabetes. I moped around for a bit, then went on Atkins and learned how to cook. Started walking a couple miles a day, but that was it. I would eat off plan 2x a month. Within 6 months, my blood work was perfect, and I just kept going, trying to get to 200 pounds (where my doctor told me was healthy). When I got to 213, people began asking me if I had cancer. I re-evaluated and decided that just being skinny wasn't great, so I got in the gym. Over the next year, I added 20 pounds of muscle and lost a few more pounds of fat and was happy with how I looked. Then I began chasing strength.

At the end of 2012 I lost my job and my girlfriend of 8 years left me. I threw everything into getting stronger and did a lot of depressed stress eating. In 2013, I took 2nd in the nation amongst drug testing athletes for powerlifting (well, in my federation. thats a whole can of worms). But I was fat again. I went back to Keto, dropped 50 pounds of fat, and I've been working at keeping myself in the low 300s and getting stronger ever since.

Now that I'm getting a little older though, I think it might be cool to see my abs, so that's what I'll be working on this year.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2018, 10:24:40 AM »
Yesterday's meals:

(Instead of trying to stick to the breakfast/lunch/dinner pattern, which is not how I'm eating, I'm just going to list the meals, probably with time stamp, to make it easier to see my personal patterns).  Times are approximate.

10:30 am - omelette with bacon, cheddar and veggies (didn't finish all of it, I had some veggies left over).  I wasn't hungry, I ate to see if it would give me some energy.  It did not.

2pm - snack of cheddar, salami, and olives

4pm - half a bowl of our quick soup:  bone broth, shrimp, cilantro, green onions, serrano pepper, evoo

7:30 pm - half a bowl of quick soup:  bone broth, pork, zucchini, napa cabbage, mushrooms, cilantro, green onion, serrano, a bit of bacon fat; a few bites of cheddar, olives and salami

9pm - small snack of cheddar and salami  (I wan't hungry.  I was watching tv and felt like having a tasty snack.)

I've been feeling hungry during the evenings even after I eat so I was increasing my carbs with lots of salad and more veggies but it wasn't helping.  Yesterday I went the other direction and increased fat (and sodium) instead.  That worked much better.  The last snack I had at 9pm was ill-advised though.  It gave me a tiny bit of heartburn at night (which I hadn't had since starting Induction).  I'll set a limit of 8 pm for food, especially fatty foods.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2018, 10:36:01 AM »
I'm always down for a Keto challenge. I went from ~380 down to 213 over 14 months many years ago. I kept it off for about 5 years, then became a competitive strongman and gained some weight on purpose, plus some more not on purpose.

This year my goal with keto is to find the right level for me. No carbs and training as hard as i do is a no go. I'm at ~140g of carbs a day right now and still in ketosis, and that's working will. I'll slowly dial it down to 100g a day over the next month and see how that goes.

Dude, how much are you training to be able to stay in keto on 140 g?  And how tall and old are you?  Men def have a metabolic advantage, especially younger men compared to older women (me!) 

Welcome.  I'm glad you can join us.  Would love to hear how you went from 380 to 213 in just over a year.

I'm 6'5", early 30s. I weigh in at 302 right now with ~260 pounds of fat free mass. I train 4 times a week in a normal gym, it usually takes 90 minutes. Cardio 2x a week, and an implements training session on saturdays that lasts ~6 hours. I keep my carb intake to an hour before and an hour after training so that they get burned or used to refill glycogen stores instead of just floating around going to my gut.

Back 2008 I was diagnosed with type II diabetes. I moped around for a bit, then went on Atkins and learned how to cook. Started walking a couple miles a day, but that was it. I would eat off plan 2x a month. Within 6 months, my blood work was perfect, and I just kept going, trying to get to 200 pounds (where my doctor told me was healthy). When I got to 213, people began asking me if I had cancer. I re-evaluated and decided that just being skinny wasn't great, so I got in the gym. Over the next year, I added 20 pounds of muscle and lost a few more pounds of fat and was happy with how I looked. Then I began chasing strength.

At the end of 2012 I lost my job and my girlfriend of 8 years left me. I threw everything into getting stronger and did a lot of depressed stress eating. In 2013, I took 2nd in the nation amongst drug testing athletes for powerlifting (well, in my federation. thats a whole can of worms). But I was fat again. I went back to Keto, dropped 50 pounds of fat, and I've been working at keeping myself in the low 300s and getting stronger ever since.

Now that I'm getting a little older though, I think it might be cool to see my abs, so that's what I'll be working on this year.

"Now that I'm getting a little older though"  You're so cute!  30 is YOUNG.  Enjoy it.  And now I see why you can handle 140 g.

Thanks for sharing your journey.  I'm sorry to hear you had a rough patch for a while there.  Glad to hear you have rebounded and are taking good care of yourself.

When you say you work out 4x a week, does that include the 2x a week cardio, and the Saturday session?  And what do you do for 6 hours on Sat? 

I'm doing very little exercise right now due to joint problems and the excess weight but I'm looking forward to doing more as some of this weight comes off. 

OurTown

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 697
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2018, 10:36:45 AM »
Dr Jason Fung is the authority on fasting.  Google him, then read learn and inwardly digest.

Essentially I have only done intermittent fasting so far, as in no longer than 36 hours.  Extended fasting is probably safe as long as you have sufficient body fat you need to burn off.  If you are already "lean," I don't know if EF would be right for you.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2018, 10:40:57 AM »
Dr Jason Fung is the authority on fasting.  Google him, then read learn and inwardly digest.

Essentially I have only done intermittent fasting so far, as in no longer than 36 hours.  Extended fasting is probably safe as long as you have sufficient body fat you need to burn off.  If you are already "lean," I don't know if EF would be right for you.

Oh, I have plenty of body fat to use as fuel! 

I'll google Dr Fung.  Thanks!

furrychickens

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9429
  • Age: 33
  • Location: SE WI
  • Homeschooling and homestesding since 2013
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2018, 10:51:42 AM »
I drink a fair amount of caffeine. As long as it doesnít mess with your sleep it shouldnít harm weight loss at all.

It is an appetite suppressant so folks stalling because of too few calories shouldnít consume a lot of it but I love my coffee, especially with salt.
ďThese furry chickens ainít laying no eggs!Ē

thegoblinchief became HarbingerofBunnies for a while and is now furrychickens.

brute

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2018, 11:04:53 AM »

"Now that I'm getting a little older though"  You're so cute!  30 is YOUNG.  Enjoy it.  And now I see why you can handle 140 g.

Thanks for sharing your journey.  I'm sorry to hear you had a rough patch for a while there.  Glad to hear you have rebounded and are taking good care of yourself.

When you say you work out 4x a week, does that include the 2x a week cardio, and the Saturday session?  And what do you do for 6 hours on Sat? 

I'm doing very little exercise right now due to joint problems and the excess weight but I'm looking forward to doing more as some of this weight comes off.

30 may be young, but dang do I hurt more in the mornings!

I do barbell training Sun-Mon-Wed-Thurs, cardio Tuesday/friday. I split them out into squat day/bench day/deadlift day/accessory day.

Saturday is the fun one though. We take the 5 events for an upcoming competition, plus whatever we're worst at, and hammer them for an hour. This upcoming one, we'll be hitting the truck pull, farmers walk, keg toss, log press, and atlas stones for an hour each. Usually we do each even for 75 seconds, take a 5 minutes break, and hit it again. At the end, I'll be doing a tire flip with a 1200 pound tractor tire since I'm slow at it.

But, for losing weight, there's really nothing like some easy cardio, just walking or spending 30 minutes on an elliptical. It doesn't do _that_ much for burning calories in the moment, but it's great for the heart and seems to boost metabolism for several hours after.

mxt0133

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2018, 02:46:33 PM »
Anyone have experience with fasting or intermitten fasting that they'd like to share.  I feel like that's where I'm headed based on my eating patterns lately.

I'll share.  I found this video on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihhj_VSKiTs&list=PLQIrmUFjdJhIfMxdVG1Fkf5oHFNAlh0fL&t=2s&index=1 and was intrigued so I did as much reading on it as could.  I have done a juice fast for 3 days before and that led me to quit my coffee habit.  I was also able to quit alcohol because I was started to drinking at home when alone because I reduced going out and socializing with other adults after having kids.  However, one think I couldn't manage was sugar.  I would quit for a few weeks and then slowly try to have a treat once a month, which became twice a month, then once a week, then twice a week, ect, ect..

However, when I read up more on fasting, then intermittent fasting, then low-carb diets, there were so many stories of people just not craving sugar anymore because they also cut their carb addiction.  I figure I would give it a shot but it took a while come to terms with low to no refined carbs, I'm Asian and rice, noodles, and starchy food in general was a staple in my diet.

Starting in November last year I started cutting down my carbs and sugar, not yet low carb.  Then I did the 5:2 diet, eating only 600 calories, again no refined carbs or sugar, on Monday's and Thursday's.  Once I did that for about 6 weeks.  If found this blog post on a 21 day fast, https://personalexcellence.co/blog/fasting/,  which really gave me confidence to try a 7 day fast.

The fast as a very good experience for me overall, for my wife that had to take care of three kids for the last three days of the fast, not so much.  I have learned a lot about what the human body is capable of and I have dramatically changed my relationship with food.  I have unlearned a lot of unhealthy eating habits that I thought were perfectly normal and separated out the emotions and feelings I was trying to replicate by eating certain foods.  I am also more aware of how different foods I eat affect my body and not just in theory but in practice.  Which really drove the home the fact that I need to respect my body more by being aware of what I eat and how it negatively or positively affects my body, mood, and long term health.

I still miss the taste of a lot of the things I used to eat, I'm talking about you doughnuts and chocolate cake, but now it is not a matter of depriving myself and using will power.  It is a choice, I choose not to eat it because I know I was eating them to feel an emotion or to recreate a feeling that I associated with them.  Instead of eating to recreate the emotion or feeling I just focus on doing the things that actually make me feel them and not what was associated with the emotion or feeling i was feeling.

After my fast it was so much easier to eat healthier and I am continuing on tweaking the foods I eat to achieve my health and fitness goals.  Weight loss is the only thing I am concerned about for my next fast.  I'm down to 15% body fat according to my scale and don't want to go any lower, but at the same time it is difficult for me to gain weight because of my decreased appetite and only eating when i'm hungry and to satiety.  So I need to gain more fat in a healthy manner before my next fast.

Another advantage as a result of my fast is now I can finally join the other MMM members that have food budgets of $200-$300 a month.  I cook, make, or prepare almost 95% of my food now and have cut so much on necessary food, that even eating higher priced grass feed organic foods I am still saving a significant amount of money.  I went from easily 2000-2500 calories a day to about 1200-1600 calories a day.

It is the reason I am on this thread because I'm now learning about Keto and seeing if I want to give it a shot.  My current mental and tactical block is getting my carbs low enough to get into ketosis, I am hesitant to lower my vegetable and fruit intake to such low levels.  I have no problems with the increased fat and moderate proteins, but the carbs is a blocker for me, especially if the recommendation is to get to 20 grams of total carbs a day to get into ketosis.


OurTown

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 697
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Tennessee

northener80

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2018, 03:09:16 PM »
@northener80 yes, I had a very similar reason to try keto. Itís almost impossible for me to moderate carbs.

On energy, itís probably a combination of the time it takes for your body to adapt to its new fuel source, but also make sure you are getting enough electrolytes. I have to add salt and potassium to almost everything I drink just to get enough, it seems crazy but thatís what I have to do.

I think so too. Currently I'm just adding some extra salt and taking Magnesium and Zink. I will try adding some potassium too.

northener80

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2018, 03:15:52 PM »
Right now I'm naturally eating in a 16/8 fasting pattern. Not intentionally, that's just when I feel hungry.  I've tried to change the pattern by eating breakfast when I'm not hungry and what happens is I just end up skipping lunch because, again, I'm just not hungry.  I do get hungry between 3-7 pm.  And I get hungry for mostly fat and some protein.  If I eat salads, I stay hungry until I eat enough fat and protein, then I feel satisfied. 

I'm thinking of doing a 24 or 36 hour fast at some point, just to see how I do on it.  And I wondered if anyone had experience to share.  I'd still like to hear it if you have it.  Good or bad. 

I did read on Mark Sisson's blog some years ago that men tend to do better on fasts than women, especially younger women of child-bearing age.  I'm probably in perimenopause (50 yrs old); I've only had the occasional hot flash, but age-wise this is when menopause normally starts for many women.

My guess is that a 24 hours fast will be very easy for you. I have been doing mostly 24 hour ones about once a week for the last six months or so. Some of them were easy and on others I struggled. However... I just did one these last 24 hours and it was ridiculous how easy it was! Fasting while on keto is way easier than if you are eating a standard carb diet :)

furrychickens

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9429
  • Age: 33
  • Location: SE WI
  • Homeschooling and homestesding since 2013
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2018, 04:49:40 PM »
@northener80 yes, I had a very similar reason to try keto. Itís almost impossible for me to moderate carbs.

On energy, itís probably a combination of the time it takes for your body to adapt to its new fuel source, but also make sure you are getting enough electrolytes. I have to add salt and potassium to almost everything I drink just to get enough, it seems crazy but thatís what I have to do.

I think so too. Currently I'm just adding some extra salt and taking Magnesium and Zink. I will try adding some potassium too.

Yeah, you need almost as much potassium as sodium. Depending on what you eat, there are some very rich sources in food (a big keto one being avocados).

With magnesium, what form are you taking? Mag oxide is bad, very poor absorption. I take mag glycinate. A lot of folks like mag malate but my stomach didnít seem to like it.
ďThese furry chickens ainít laying no eggs!Ē

thegoblinchief became HarbingerofBunnies for a while and is now furrychickens.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2018, 10:41:29 AM »
@northener80 - I think you might be right! 

Yesterday I decided to wait and eat when I felt hungry.  This didn't happen until about 4pm.  And even then I wasn't really hungry - I didn't feel hunger pangs, the food didn't demand to be eaten while I cooked or after, and when I ate it just tasted like regular food not the amazing food you taste when you're really hungry.  But I felt washed out and my energy was dragging, so I figured it's time to eat. 

I had a bowl of beef taco salad.  It was good but I didn't want seconds.  And then since I was going to be gone from home I ate a snack of fatty foods to tide me over.  That was a mistake.  I felt overly full and uncomfortable.  Clearly my "just in case" eating needs to stop!  :)  My tummy don't like it.

I did add caffeine yesterday morning.  For the past week I've been low on energy.  At first I thought it was just recovery from starting keto right before my cycle.  Then I thought it was becoming fat-adapted.  Then I thought it was emotional stress.  But then I got over my emotional stress and I was still sluggish.  So, I added a cup of caffeine Lipton tea and that worked great.  I felt an immediate boost to my energy. 

Yesterday's meals:

8am - caffeine tea with a splash of heavy cream and 1.5 Splenda packet

2pm - caffeine tea with a splash of heavy cream and 1.5 Splenda packet

4pm - beef taco salad:  beef cooked with green onions, cilantro, tomato, serranos, garlic served over romaine, red cabbage, and cuke

5pm - snack of cheddar, olives and salami  (totally not needed, made me feel too full)

That was a 19 hour fast.  At 6:30 pm I went to the gym for some light exercise.  I did a 1-hr cycle class; leisurely swimming for 1 hour; 25 mins in the dry sauna; 15 mins in the jacuzzi.  It was the longest I've ever stayed at the gym and I wasn't even tired.  But it was late and I needed to come home.  I got home full of energy and not hungry at all.  I haven't eaten since 5pm last night.  So now I'm on hour 16 of the next fast. 

I'm going to repeat the process and wait until I'm hungry to eat.  I'm really surprised at how good I felt during the fast.  And after.  Wow.  I didn't eat very much at all and yet I had so much energy.  After the workout I felt positively giddy. 


northener80

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2018, 01:18:34 PM »
@northener80 yes, I had a very similar reason to try keto. Itís almost impossible for me to moderate carbs.

On energy, itís probably a combination of the time it takes for your body to adapt to its new fuel source, but also make sure you are getting enough electrolytes. I have to add salt and potassium to almost everything I drink just to get enough, it seems crazy but thatís what I have to do.

I think so too. Currently I'm just adding some extra salt and taking Magnesium and Zink. I will try adding some potassium too.

Yeah, you need almost as much potassium as sodium. Depending on what you eat, there are some very rich sources in food (a big keto one being avocados).

With magnesium, what form are you taking? Mag oxide is bad, very poor absorption. I take mag glycinate. A lot of folks like mag malate but my stomach didnít seem to like it.

I'm doing the Great Earth - Super Magnesium, which supposedly has a mix of multiple kinds of it: glycinate, citrate, glukonate... some malate too.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2018, 03:53:44 PM »
For those of you who fast - is there a good guideline as to how many calories one can have and still consider it a fast?

I've been having tea with heavy cream and splenda during my fast (30 calories per day total).  I'm wondering if it's worth the effort to wean myself off the cream and splenda, or if I should just keep doing it.  I looked on the Dr. Fung website but couldn't find anything.

Also, is there a guideline for how often one should do a 36 hr fast?  Dr. Fung says 2-3 times per week for a 24 hr fast, but nothing for the 36.

northener80

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2018, 04:36:36 PM »
Interesting day at the office today:

morning coffee break - a coworker brought in two big boxes of homemade chocolate cookies
then five minutes later someone else shows up with four big cakes! (someone's birthday)

and in the afternoon I was offered a homemade mudcake with whipped cream.

Didn't have any of it of course and not really any strong cravings either, first time ever for me when it comes to sweet stuff.

northener80

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2018, 05:09:45 AM »
For those of you who fast - is there a good guideline as to how many calories one can have and still consider it a fast?

I've been having tea with heavy cream and splenda during my fast (30 calories per day total).  I'm wondering if it's worth the effort to wean myself off the cream and splenda, or if I should just keep doing it.  I looked on the Dr. Fung website but couldn't find anything.

Also, is there a guideline for how often one should do a 36 hr fast?  Dr. Fung says 2-3 times per week for a 24 hr fast, but nothing for the 36.

Some speculation from me on this is. When it comes to weight loss I think it would be fine to add some fat, haven't looked so deeply into that but I've been reading some things pointing to that. Please correct if I'm wrong on this :)

However, I would be vary about it breaking the autophagy mode of the body. This mode of repairing, preserving and cleaning up basically that we simply don't get into much normally with eating all the time.

Maybe you can just try doing a 24 hour every now and then first? For me I tend to do them on work days when my calendar has been filled to the point of leaving no time for lunch (not really ideal, but I make up for it leaving early other days).


On a different topic, what benefits are the rest of you seeing already other than possibly weight loss? I noticed my skin has improved a lot! It's always gotten quite bad in the winter time, and this time of the year is really the worst with very dry air inside, but over the last two weeks it's actually been getting better!
Another positive is that my sleep improved also, no more tossing and turning for an hour or two before falling asleep!

furrychickens

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9429
  • Age: 33
  • Location: SE WI
  • Homeschooling and homestesding since 2013
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2018, 07:49:46 AM »
Yeah my skin typically needs a lot less moisturizer during winter as well.

In general my depression is more stable on keto, though not so much if I have too much alcohol.
ďThese furry chickens ainít laying no eggs!Ē

thegoblinchief became HarbingerofBunnies for a while and is now furrychickens.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2018, 05:12:25 PM »
Benefits:

Food cravings are completely gone.
Joint pain is greatly reduced.
Energy has increased tremendously.
Skin is looking better - more clear and less oily.
Scalp is less oily.
I get full on less food and I get a clear message when I'm full.
I sleep soundly through the night instead of getting up to pee several times.
My kitchen stays much cleaner because I'm not cooking and eating as much.
My food shopping has decreased as now I'm eating less and not buying lots of snacks.
The food I do eat tastes much better.
Preparing food is simpler and easier - less meals, less cleanup, less thinking about what to cook (I don't mind eating the same thing over and over).
I'm more active and the increased activity is releasing the feel-good chemicals so my spirits are noticeably lifted.
My dogs are loving the extra walks! 

I'm sure more stuff will come up, but this is what stands out after being on this for 2 weeks.

Great question! 

mxt0133

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2018, 10:13:56 PM »
Benefits:

The biggest benefit for me is being much calmer and less anxious, I used to get worked up about the smallest things if it did not go my way or was not part of a 'plan'.  From there physically, it is the constant energy level, I don't miss the highs or lows, at the moment the variation in energy level from the moment I wake up to to the time I go to bed is very close.  I also don't toss and turn before bed, even if I am on the screen right before I go to bed, I'm asleep in under 5 minutes.  Last but not least, I can see my stomach muscles again. 

From a financial perspective I'm saving at least 30-40% on my food costs because I have stopped eating out as much and buying sweets and processed foods. 

I also spend less time eating because I just don't eat that much any more, with fasting, 5:2, and intermittent fasting, I normally eat two meals a day with a snack in between now.  Even with doing more mindful eating where I am not multi-tasking while I eat.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2018, 10:46:58 AM »
I finished my 2 week Induction and weighed in yesterday.  I lost 9.5 lbs over the two weeks. 

This week I will be experimenting with intermitten fasting while still keeping to my low-carb/keto diet.  I'm kind of excited to try a 36 hour fast, but will probably do a few 24 hour ones first.  The plan for the week is to do a 24-hr fast on Mon, Weds, and Fri.

I'm really shocked at how little appetite I have as I move into longer fasting periods.  I was starting to get concerned, but I've been spending some time over at Dr. Fung's website and he says it's normal.  It seems my body is quite happy relying on the reserves for fuel.

northener80

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2018, 01:13:01 PM »
I finished my 2 week Induction and weighed in yesterday.  I lost 9.5 lbs over the two weeks. 

This week I will be experimenting with intermitten fasting while still keeping to my low-carb/keto diet.  I'm kind of excited to try a 36 hour fast, but will probably do a few 24 hour ones first.  The plan for the week is to do a 24-hr fast on Mon, Weds, and Fri.

I'm really shocked at how little appetite I have as I move into longer fasting periods.  I was starting to get concerned, but I've been spending some time over at Dr. Fung's website and he says it's normal.  It seems my body is quite happy relying on the reserves for fuel.

Wow! Great job and great results! :)

And good luck with this week's fasting. I just started mine after I had dinner tonight, will do a regular 24 hour one.

Some more science and inspiration on the topic of sugars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Today's food was: a brunch consisting of boiled eggs, salami, cheese filled champignons and olives. Followed by a dinner with oven baked ham with cheese, smoked aubergine mush with walnuts and bearnaise sauce (the dinner was kinda a combination of whatever was in the fridge, pretty tasty but maybe one step too far in mixing things :)

mxt0133

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2018, 02:07:36 PM »
Reading through this thread I'm seeing everyone list bacon, salami, pepperoni, etc as part of their keto diet.  Does anyone have any concerns about the nitrates and processing of the meats making them carcinogenic?

brute

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2018, 02:13:18 PM »
Reading through this thread I'm seeing everyone list bacon, salami, pepperoni, etc as part of their keto diet.  Does anyone have any concerns about the nitrates and processing of the meats making them carcinogenic?

Not at all. Even though I eat them regularly, I don't eat them in large quantities. Additionally, the studies that are usually cited are a little iffy. They don't do a good job of separating out other factors (such as the highly processed diets of people who generally eat these types of meats). I would agree that these should be eaten in moderation, and I prefer my own bacon and sausages to store brands since I am able to control the quality.

northener80

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2018, 02:38:20 PM »
Reading through this thread I'm seeing everyone list bacon, salami, pepperoni, etc as part of their keto diet.  Does anyone have any concerns about the nitrates and processing of the meats making them carcinogenic?

Wow it never really ends! ;) There is always one more thing you have to consider for the diet. Especially frustrating as I was very mustachian and bought 10kg of very high quality ham just after christmas for something like $2/kg!

I've been aware of nitrates, but haven't particularly read up on them. The red meat research I know some of. As I understand it this is observational studies? If so, they might carry way too many unknown factors in the results to really apply. My quick dive into the topic also hinted that some vegetables also contain nitrates, red beats for example. The ham I'm getting has apparently replaced the regular nitrates with something extracted from red beats, no idea if it's any better for me or not, but at least they could remove those "E"-numbers from the label :)

Thank you, you have made me more aware of this, the safe bet seems to be adding some more fish, avocado and chicken and hold back somewhat on red/processed meats.

furrychickens

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9429
  • Age: 33
  • Location: SE WI
  • Homeschooling and homestesding since 2013
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2018, 03:00:36 PM »
Reading through this thread I'm seeing everyone list bacon, salami, pepperoni, etc as part of their keto diet.  Does anyone have any concerns about the nitrates and processing of the meats making them carcinogenic?

The research on nitrates is best described as inconclusive. Heck, our saliva has nitrates in it. Iím highly skeptical of danger from that arena. Fundamentally, everything is going to kill you somehow, you canít fear everything.
ďThese furry chickens ainít laying no eggs!Ē

thegoblinchief became HarbingerofBunnies for a while and is now furrychickens.

Knaak

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 430
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2018, 03:23:22 PM »
Wow it never really ends! ;)
...
Thank you, you have made me more aware of this, the safe bet seems to be adding some more fish, avocado and chicken and hold back somewhat on red/processed meats.

No, it doesn't.

You might want to research mercury and PCB levels in fish, then try to figure out whether fish is a safe bet compared to chicken or red meats.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2018, 07:13:45 PM »
Reading through this thread I'm seeing everyone list bacon, salami, pepperoni, etc as part of their keto diet.  Does anyone have any concerns about the nitrates and processing of the meats making them carcinogenic?

Like @brute, I eat salami regularly but in small amounts.  If I say I had salami, I mean 2-3 small bites.  A little bit goes a long way.  It's hard to overeat protein foods if you don't eat carbs with them.  I still have some of the dry salami I bought over 2 weeks ago. 

So to answer your question, no I don't worry about it.  Sugar and carbs would be more likely to kill me than the few bites of salami I eat now and then.

Knaak

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 430
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #78 on: January 21, 2018, 09:02:31 PM »
I finished my 2 week Induction and weighed in yesterday.  I lost 9.5 lbs over the two weeks. 

This week I will be experimenting with intermitten fasting while still keeping to my low-carb/keto diet.  I'm kind of excited to try a 36 hour fast, but will probably do a few 24 hour ones first.  The plan for the week is to do a 24-hr fast on Mon, Weds, and Fri.

I'm really shocked at how little appetite I have as I move into longer fasting periods.  I was starting to get concerned, but I've been spending some time over at Dr. Fung's website and he says it's normal.  It seems my body is quite happy relying on the reserves for fuel.

Good job on the weight loss.

I started intermittent fasting a couple years ago because of this thread and have continued it ever since.  I eat my first meal at 1pm and finish my last meal by 7pm.  It's also very easy for me to go on a 24 hour fast and not feel hungry at all, but I don't do those often since I don't want to lose weight.

Also, this thread about extended fasts was interesting to follow.  I would NOT try one of these until you are comfortable with intermittent fasting and 24-36 hour fasts, but the thread still has a lot of good information and links that might interest you.

oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3023
Re: Keto Challenge
« Reply #79 on: January 21, 2018, 09:29:47 PM »
Anyone up for a keto or low-carb challenge?

I've been at 30 carbs for 2 days and I'm going to work hard to get down to 20 to make sure that I'm in keto and to see how the 20 limit works on my body.  I have a lot of weight to lose so I'm looking to do this for a while.  In time I'd like to see what my carb threshold is for continued weight loss.

I just had to defend/explain my decision to cut back on cabbage on the weight loss thread and it made me realize that I need a place to talk about the idiosyncrasies of low-carb/keto.  I realize it sounds pretty funny and a little crazy to talk about cutting back on cabbage in order to lose weight!

First of all, great work on the determination to make a change!  That's a huge undertaking, and you should be commended for taking that on.

Having myself tinkered with all sorts of random dietary approaches, what I will tell you from just my own personal experiences is that it's probably a good idea to maintain some level of carb intake in the form of "carby vegetables," such as cabbage, a modest amount of sweet potato, etc.

Again, this is just my own experience, and everyone's body responds differently, so definitely go with what works best for you.  But when I went keto and aimed for 30g of net carbs/day, I lost some weight and gained some strength, but my cholesterol absolutely shot through the roof to extraordinary numbers (my levels more than tripled).  Loving numbers and being fascinated by my body's response, I did some more testing and found that my thyroid function markedly decreased in response to the diet.  Amongst the main functions of the thyroid is to help clear out circulating cholesterol.

So I decided to experiment, veered from a keto lifestyle and instead engaged in more of a paleo lifestyle, and within a few months, my thyroid and lipid panel returned back to normal (my lipid panel actually improved compared to "baseline").  So again, I encourage you to experiment and try different things, knowing that everyone's body tends to respond differently.  I encourage you to do some regular blood tests along with the dietary changes too, as that helps you better track and understand how your body is responding.

Strict keto made me feel pretty sick, so now I do a modified version that has me counting fermentable carbs and staying below a certain number. The doc said maybe I need more carbs than other people. Different bodies need different things.

When I stick to lower than about 25-30 fermentable carbs, I feel pretty good. If I feel off, I'll eat some butternut squash. It took some experimentation for me to figure out what worked the best. After much trial and error, I think the counting of fermentable carbs is the way to go for me. I'm still working out some kinks, but I feel I'm heading in the right direction.

mxt0133

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #80 on: January 22, 2018, 08:55:03 AM »
@oldtoyota Can you elaborate on what fermentable carbs are?  How do they differ from the normal keto carb lingo such at total carbs and net carbs?  What are some examples of fermentable carbs and how do you calculate them?

mxt0133

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #81 on: January 22, 2018, 09:02:50 AM »
Thank you for the replies regarding the question about nitrates and processed meats.  I also agree with some of the sentiments that sugar and processed carbs are higher on the list of worries than nitrates and processed meats if you asked me. 

Here is a reference for the study on the processing of meats, such as bacon and other cured meats and it's link to cancer.  I'm still doing my own reading on the matter and agree that moderate amounts a few time a week is probably ok.

https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/world-health-organization-says-processed-meat-causes-cancer.html

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #82 on: January 22, 2018, 07:01:34 PM »
So far I have done one 24 hour and two 20/4 fasts.  Ironically, I find the 24 hour fast easier because there's less thought going into what and when to eat.  What I've found, even with the 20/4 fasts, is that I only need one regular meal.  My appetite is greatly reduced and if I try to eat a lot, it's painful. 

The goal for the rest of the week is to do a 24 hour fast every day.  I find that a meal time of 5 pm works well.  If I plan to do something physical in the evenings, 4 pm would probably work better as it gives my body time to digest the meal.  What used to be a regular meal now feels like a big meal, so I have found myself slowly reducing the amount of food I eat so I don't feel stuffed.

If anyone had told me three weeks ago that I'd be eating one low-carb meal per day, I wouldn't have believed it.  I'm slowly weaning myself off the Splenda.  And I've added broth during the fasting period for some sodium and satiety.  When I did the 24 hour fast I only got really hungry the last hour or so and I was able to distract myself with a walk.

I think I'll pick up a scale so that I can see how the fasting affects the weight loss on more regular basis.  I can see my stomach getting smaller!  It's a trip.

ROF Expat

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2018, 07:04:03 AM »

This year my goal with keto is to find the right level for me. No carbs and training as hard as i do is a no go. I'm at ~140g of carbs a day right now and still in ketosis, and that's working will. I'll slowly dial it down to 100g a day over the next month and see how that goes.
[/quote]

Brute,

How long before and after you work out is your window for having those carbs?  I've been training with the intention of competing in Masters class powerlifting this year.  A keto diet has taken me from 212 to 180, and my intention is to make the 165 lb class.  Things weren't so bad the first few months, but my strength has really suffered lately.  I'd like to try introducing some carbs to see if I can maintain more of my strength while losing weight.   

brute

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2018, 08:10:07 AM »

Brute,

How long before and after you work out is your window for having those carbs?  I've been training with the intention of competing in Masters class powerlifting this year.  A keto diet has taken me from 212 to 180, and my intention is to make the 165 lb class.  Things weren't so bad the first few months, but my strength has really suffered lately.  I'd like to try introducing some carbs to see if I can maintain more of my strength while losing weight.   

I hear you on the strength loss, it drives me nuts and for a long time was what killed my long term dieting efforts. I eat ~60g an hour before training, and 60-80g within an hour after training. I used to supplement with BCAAs, but after testing my blood sugar, it seemed that most of them were being turned into glucose via gluconeogenesis in the liver anyway, so no reason to buy expensive sugar.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2018, 10:47:29 AM »

Brute,

How long before and after you work out is your window for having those carbs?  I've been training with the intention of competing in Masters class powerlifting this year.  A keto diet has taken me from 212 to 180, and my intention is to make the 165 lb class.  Things weren't so bad the first few months, but my strength has really suffered lately.  I'd like to try introducing some carbs to see if I can maintain more of my strength while losing weight.   

I was reading on the Dr. Fung website and he advises working out in a fasted state, per the findings of the LeanGains guy, if I remember correctly.  Have you tried that?

I hope to begin doing some strength training workouts soon.  I didn't want to overwhelm myself by starting too much all at once.  Once a hit a 12 lb weight loss, I'll start.  I think that might be sometime this week or next.
I hear you on the strength loss, it drives me nuts and for a long time was what killed my long term dieting efforts. I eat ~60g an hour before training, and 60-80g within an hour after training. I used to supplement with BCAAs, but after testing my blood sugar, it seemed that most of them were being turned into glucose via gluconeogenesis in the liver anyway, so no reason to buy expensive sugar.

ROF Expat

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #86 on: January 23, 2018, 11:53:51 AM »

Brute,

How long before and after you work out is your window for having those carbs?  I've been training with the intention of competing in Masters class powerlifting this year.  A keto diet has taken me from 212 to 180, and my intention is to make the 165 lb class.  Things weren't so bad the first few months, but my strength has really suffered lately.  I'd like to try introducing some carbs to see if I can maintain more of my strength while losing weight.   

I hear you on the strength loss, it drives me nuts and for a long time was what killed my long term dieting efforts. I eat ~60g an hour before training, and 60-80g within an hour after training. I used to supplement with BCAAs, but after testing my blood sugar, it seemed that most of them were being turned into glucose via gluconeogenesis in the liver anyway, so no reason to buy expensive sugar.

Thanks, Brute. 

I'll try introducing some carbs within the hour before and after training, scaled down to my bodyweight and workout. 

northener80

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #87 on: January 23, 2018, 12:16:29 PM »
This is really becoming a habit now. Had salmon for two meals today and weighed in at -5kg from roughly two weeks ago. If anything it's moving too fast, there's only like 7 more kg to lose!

After that it's maintenance and gaining from the gym. The only small issue so far is that my wife was a bit upset that I ate the mozzarella while she was still at work ;)

ROF Expat

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #88 on: January 23, 2018, 12:22:46 PM »

I was reading on the Dr. Fung website and he advises working out in a fasted state, per the findings of the LeanGains guy, if I remember correctly.  Have you tried that?

I hope to begin doing some strength training workouts soon.  I didn't want to overwhelm myself by starting too much all at once.  Once a hit a 12 lb weight loss, I'll start.  I think that might be sometime this week or next.
I hear you on the strength loss, it drives me nuts and for a long time was what killed my long term dieting efforts. I eat ~60g an hour before training, and 60-80g within an hour after training. I used to supplement with BCAAs, but after testing my blood sugar, it seemed that most of them were being turned into glucose via gluconeogenesis in the liver anyway, so no reason to buy expensive sugar.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Jane x,

I think the recommendation for exercising in a fasting state is probably appropriate for people who need help getting into, or remaining in ketosis, and it might make sense if weight loss is your major goal.  For a person who is training to build or maintain serious strength, exercising while fasting is probably irrelevant at best and counterproductive at worst.  I'm not a physiologist, but my understanding is that a ketogenic diet basically depletes your muscle glycogen and your body runs on fat.
  This is good for weight loss, but bad for strength.  Truly high intensity, anerobic exercise relies on having muscle glycogen available to burn.  You can walk or run on the treadmill, do pilates, or work out with light weights by burning fat.  If you want to move twice your bodyweight or more, you need to burn glycogen.  At least, that is my experience over the past five months. 

Good luck on starting your own strength training!  If you haven't been doing very serious strength training up to this point, your ketogenic diet probably won't be a negative factor for a long time.  When you're very new to training, you see benefits very quickly.  You might want to consider looking for some good coaching, though. 

brute

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #89 on: January 23, 2018, 12:44:31 PM »

I was reading on the Dr. Fung website and he advises working out in a fasted state, per the findings of the LeanGains guy, if I remember correctly.  Have you tried that?

I hope to begin doing some strength training workouts soon.  I didn't want to overwhelm myself by starting too much all at once.  Once a hit a 12 lb weight loss, I'll start.  I think that might be sometime this week or next.

Training in a fasted state has shown to be useful for people who are just trying to lose fat. It might make the difference of 1-1.5 pounds of fat per month. Definitely give it a try for 2-3 weeks and see if it makes a difference for you. Some people love it, some  hate it, but it's hard to know which is which until you try it.

For my goals though, my body simply can't function at the level needed when fasted. Here's me pulling a sled with kegs filled with lead shot and sand. Each keg weight 350 pounds, which we had to pick up, run 50 feet, place on the sled, go get the other one, then pull the sled 50 feet to the finish line, all in under 60 seconds.


OurTown

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 697
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #90 on: January 23, 2018, 12:50:28 PM »
Dude, that's intense.  And I thought I was some big deal when I took the stairs up to my office!

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #91 on: January 23, 2018, 04:36:36 PM »
I've been finding that I get an energy slump every day around 2 pm.  At first I thought I was hungry and would eat and the tired feeling would go away temporarily.  Then a couple of hours later, or less, the tiredness would come back. 

I've been trying different things: snacks, water, broth, walking, attempted naps, tv, reading, etc.... And nothing works.  I can't figure it out.  After dinner I feel fine, though I do have to be careful not to overeat.

I'm wondering if this is just a normal part of being in weight loss mode. 

Today I ate a snack high in fat and some nuts for protein in hopes that it would help but the nuts are giving me a stomach ache and I feel just as tired if not more.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 04:41:26 PM by jane x »

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2018, 04:47:58 PM »

I was reading on the Dr. Fung website and he advises working out in a fasted state, per the findings of the LeanGains guy, if I remember correctly.  Have you tried that?

I hope to begin doing some strength training workouts soon.  I didn't want to overwhelm myself by starting too much all at once.  Once a hit a 12 lb weight loss, I'll start.  I think that might be sometime this week or next.

Training in a fasted state has shown to be useful for people who are just trying to lose fat. It might make the difference of 1-1.5 pounds of fat per month. Definitely give it a try for 2-3 weeks and see if it makes a difference for you. Some people love it, some  hate it, but it's hard to know which is which until you try it.

For my goals though, my body simply can't function at the level needed when fasted. Here's me pulling a sled with kegs filled with lead shot and sand. Each keg weight 350 pounds, which we had to pick up, run 50 feet, place on the sled, go get the other one, then pull the sled 50 feet to the finish line, all in under 60 seconds.

WOW. 

Yeah, my pushups and 4 lb weights (Jillian Michael's 30 Day Shred) are a little different than what you do!!!  :)  What you do is VERY impressive.  Kudos.


ETA - I appreciate you guys clarifying this for me.  Thanks!


« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 04:50:26 PM by jane x »

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2018, 09:54:14 PM »
I finished my 2 week Induction and weighed in yesterday.  I lost 9.5 lbs over the two weeks. 

This week I will be experimenting with intermitten fasting while still keeping to my low-carb/keto diet.  I'm kind of excited to try a 36 hour fast, but will probably do a few 24 hour ones first.  The plan for the week is to do a 24-hr fast on Mon, Weds, and Fri.

I'm really shocked at how little appetite I have as I move into longer fasting periods.  I was starting to get concerned, but I've been spending some time over at Dr. Fung's website and he says it's normal.  It seems my body is quite happy relying on the reserves for fuel.

Good job on the weight loss.

I started intermittent fasting a couple years ago because of this thread and have continued it ever since.  I eat my first meal at 1pm and finish my last meal by 7pm.  It's also very easy for me to go on a 24 hour fast and not feel hungry at all, but I don't do those often since I don't want to lose weight.

Also, this thread about extended fasts was interesting to follow.  I would NOT try one of these until you are comfortable with intermittent fasting and 24-36 hour fasts, but the thread still has a lot of good information and links that might interest you.

@Knaak - thanks for these links.  I've been reading them and wishing we had a fasting thread going right now. 

I decided to see if eating more food would solve my 2-4 pm slump and I feel so gross and overstuffed.  And I didn't even eat that much.  I keep 'thinking' my body needs more food, but it doesn't.  I don't know what it needs.  Maybe purposely removing food from the equation altogether will give me some answers. 

I want to do the 36 hr fast but I think I'm a bit scared.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #94 on: January 23, 2018, 10:13:22 PM »
Anyone have experience with fasting or intermitten fasting that they'd like to share.  I feel like that's where I'm headed based on my eating patterns lately.

I'll share.  I found this video on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihhj_VSKiTs&list=PLQIrmUFjdJhIfMxdVG1Fkf5oHFNAlh0fL&t=2s&index=1 and was intrigued so I did as much reading on it as could.  I have done a juice fast for 3 days before and that led me to quit my coffee habit.  I was also able to quit alcohol because I was started to drinking at home when alone because I reduced going out and socializing with other adults after having kids.  However, one think I couldn't manage was sugar.  I would quit for a few weeks and then slowly try to have a treat once a month, which became twice a month, then once a week, then twice a week, ect, ect..

However, when I read up more on fasting, then intermittent fasting, then low-carb diets, there were so many stories of people just not craving sugar anymore because they also cut their carb addiction.  I figure I would give it a shot but it took a while come to terms with low to no refined carbs, I'm Asian and rice, noodles, and starchy food in general was a staple in my diet.

Starting in November last year I started cutting down my carbs and sugar, not yet low carb.  Then I did the 5:2 diet, eating only 600 calories, again no refined carbs or sugar, on Monday's and Thursday's.  Once I did that for about 6 weeks.  If found this blog post on a 21 day fast, https://personalexcellence.co/blog/fasting/,  which really gave me confidence to try a 7 day fast.

The fast as a very good experience for me overall, for my wife that had to take care of three kids for the last three days of the fast, not so much.  I have learned a lot about what the human body is capable of and I have dramatically changed my relationship with food.  I have unlearned a lot of unhealthy eating habits that I thought were perfectly normal and separated out the emotions and feelings I was trying to replicate by eating certain foods.  I am also more aware of how different foods I eat affect my body and not just in theory but in practice.  Which really drove the home the fact that I need to respect my body more by being aware of what I eat and how it negatively or positively affects my body, mood, and long term health.

I still miss the taste of a lot of the things I used to eat, I'm talking about you doughnuts and chocolate cake, but now it is not a matter of depriving myself and using will power.  It is a choice, I choose not to eat it because I know I was eating them to feel an emotion or to recreate a feeling that I associated with them.  Instead of eating to recreate the emotion or feeling I just focus on doing the things that actually make me feel them and not what was associated with the emotion or feeling i was feeling.

After my fast it was so much easier to eat healthier and I am continuing on tweaking the foods I eat to achieve my health and fitness goals.  Weight loss is the only thing I am concerned about for my next fast.  I'm down to 15% body fat according to my scale and don't want to go any lower, but at the same time it is difficult for me to gain weight because of my decreased appetite and only eating when i'm hungry and to satiety.  So I need to gain more fat in a healthy manner before my next fast.

Another advantage as a result of my fast is now I can finally join the other MMM members that have food budgets of $200-$300 a month.  I cook, make, or prepare almost 95% of my food now and have cut so much on necessary food, that even eating higher priced grass feed organic foods I am still saving a significant amount of money.  I went from easily 2000-2500 calories a day to about 1200-1600 calories a day.

It is the reason I am on this thread because I'm now learning about Keto and seeing if I want to give it a shot.  My current mental and tactical block is getting my carbs low enough to get into ketosis, I am hesitant to lower my vegetable and fruit intake to such low levels.  I have no problems with the increased fat and moderate proteins, but the carbs is a blocker for me, especially if the recommendation is to get to 20 grams of total carbs a day to get into ketosis.

Hi @mxt0133 - I was re-reading your post for inspiration to try the 36 hour fast.  Regarding the bolded section of your post - why are you trying to get into ketosis?  If you are already at your goal weight, wouldn't ketosis be unnecessary?  Maybe even undesirable?  I'm new to keto so I've been assuming that keto uses extra fat as fuel, but if there is no extra fat, what does the body use? 

mxt0133

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #95 on: January 23, 2018, 10:48:22 PM »
Hi @mxt0133 - I was re-reading your post for inspiration to try the 36 hour fast.  Regarding the bolded section of your post - why are you trying to get into ketosis?  If you are already at your goal weight, wouldn't ketosis be unnecessary?  Maybe even undesirable?  I'm new to keto so I've been assuming that keto uses extra fat as fuel, but if there is no extra fat, what does the body use?

Part of the reason I want to get/stay in ketosis is for the mental clarity I feel, even level of energy, and no cravings for sweets.  I experienced it during my extended fast and when I went low carb after I broke my fast.  However, I can't keep fasting because well, I will run out of calories eventually.  So I figure how do I maintain the way I felt during my fast and it let me down the keto road.

As for a keto diet, stored body fat is only used as fuel if you do not consume enough calories, mostly fat and protein in this case.  But if you consume enough or at a surplus you can maintain or even gain weight, either lean muscle or fat, without invoking insulin spikes.

Again, I just want to maintain how I felt during my fast and I was able to do that when I cut out sugar and refined carbs.  I believe I was in some state of ketosis during that time, but I can't be sure because I did not measure my ketone levels.  I'm still trying to tweak my food intake because my appetite has gone down significantly and I am continuing to loose weight.  My BMI is getting to underweight levels. I want to start adding lean muscle but do not want to add fat or water weight if I can help it.

jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #96 on: January 24, 2018, 12:11:00 AM »
Hi @mxt0133 - I was re-reading your post for inspiration to try the 36 hour fast.  Regarding the bolded section of your post - why are you trying to get into ketosis?  If you are already at your goal weight, wouldn't ketosis be unnecessary?  Maybe even undesirable?  I'm new to keto so I've been assuming that keto uses extra fat as fuel, but if there is no extra fat, what does the body use?

Part of the reason I want to get/stay in ketosis is for the mental clarity I feel, even level of energy, and no cravings for sweets.  I experienced it during my extended fast and when I went low carb after I broke my fast.  However, I can't keep fasting because well, I will run out of calories eventually.  So I figure how do I maintain the way I felt during my fast and it let me down the keto road.

As for a keto diet, stored body fat is only used as fuel if you do not consume enough calories, mostly fat and protein in this case.  But if you consume enough or at a surplus you can maintain or even gain weight, either lean muscle or fat, without invoking insulin spikes.

Again, I just want to maintain how I felt during my fast and I was able to do that when I cut out sugar and refined carbs.  I believe I was in some state of ketosis during that time, but I can't be sure because I did not measure my ketone levels.  I'm still trying to tweak my food intake because my appetite has gone down significantly and I am continuing to loose weight.  My BMI is getting to underweight levels. I want to start adding lean muscle but do not want to add fat or water weight if I can help it.

What if you try lower-carb and see if that gives you the benefits of keto without the weight loss?  The Atkins book has a section about finding your maintenance carb limit where you figure out that sweet spot where you are in maintenance mode and you are still free from food cravings.  It's not as easy as the strict keto/Induction phase where you limit to 20 grams. By easy, I mean very little mental energy involved in deciding what to eat.  Finding your own personal sweet spot would take some time and trial and error.  But it's something to consider.

furrychickens

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9429
  • Age: 33
  • Location: SE WI
  • Homeschooling and homestesding since 2013
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2018, 06:18:08 AM »
I've been finding that I get an energy slump every day around 2 pm.  At first I thought I was hungry and would eat and the tired feeling would go away temporarily.  Then a couple of hours later, or less, the tiredness would come back. 

I've been trying different things: snacks, water, broth, walking, attempted naps, tv, reading, etc.... And nothing works.  I can't figure it out.  After dinner I feel fine, though I do have to be careful not to overeat.

I'm wondering if this is just a normal part of being in weight loss mode. 

Today I ate a snack high in fat and some nuts for protein in hopes that it would help but the nuts are giving me a stomach ache and I feel just as tired if not more.

I have caffeine. In my case, usually half caf coffee with some salt and no-salt mixed in.
ďThese furry chickens ainít laying no eggs!Ē

thegoblinchief became HarbingerofBunnies for a while and is now furrychickens.

northener80

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2018, 10:47:24 AM »
I finished my 2 week Induction and weighed in yesterday.  I lost 9.5 lbs over the two weeks. 

This week I will be experimenting with intermitten fasting while still keeping to my low-carb/keto diet.  I'm kind of excited to try a 36 hour fast, but will probably do a few 24 hour ones first.  The plan for the week is to do a 24-hr fast on Mon, Weds, and Fri.

I'm really shocked at how little appetite I have as I move into longer fasting periods.  I was starting to get concerned, but I've been spending some time over at Dr. Fung's website and he says it's normal.  It seems my body is quite happy relying on the reserves for fuel.

Good job on the weight loss.

I started intermittent fasting a couple years ago because of this thread and have continued it ever since.  I eat my first meal at 1pm and finish my last meal by 7pm.  It's also very easy for me to go on a 24 hour fast and not feel hungry at all, but I don't do those often since I don't want to lose weight.

Also, this thread about extended fasts was interesting to follow.  I would NOT try one of these until you are comfortable with intermittent fasting and 24-36 hour fasts, but the thread still has a lot of good information and links that might interest you.

@Knaak - thanks for these links.  I've been reading them and wishing we had a fasting thread going right now. 

I decided to see if eating more food would solve my 2-4 pm slump and I feel so gross and overstuffed.  And I didn't even eat that much.  I keep 'thinking' my body needs more food, but it doesn't.  I don't know what it needs.  Maybe purposely removing food from the equation altogether will give me some answers. 

I want to do the 36 hr fast but I think I'm a bit scared.

I've been feeling something similar, getting low energy at times, until today! Full clarity the whole day, including some good exercise in the gym. Could it be that you are on negative calories now and your body isn't quite keto adapted yet. Of course you are in ketosis, but you simply may not absorb quite enough energy from the ketones?


jane x

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Keto & Low-Carb Challenge
« Reply #99 on: January 24, 2018, 12:28:12 PM »
I finished my 2 week Induction and weighed in yesterday.  I lost 9.5 lbs over the two weeks. 

This week I will be experimenting with intermitten fasting while still keeping to my low-carb/keto diet.  I'm kind of excited to try a 36 hour fast, but will probably do a few 24 hour ones first.  The plan for the week is to do a 24-hr fast on Mon, Weds, and Fri.

I'm really shocked at how little appetite I have as I move into longer fasting periods.  I was starting to get concerned, but I've been spending some time over at Dr. Fung's website and he says it's normal.  It seems my body is quite happy relying on the reserves for fuel.

Good job on the weight loss.

I started intermittent fasting a couple years ago because of this thread and have continued it ever since.  I eat my first meal at 1pm and finish my last meal by 7pm.  It's also very easy for me to go on a 24 hour fast and not feel hungry at all, but I don't do those often since I don't want to lose weight.

Also, this thread about extended fasts was interesting to follow.  I would NOT try one of these until you are comfortable with intermittent fasting and 24-36 hour fasts, but the thread still has a lot of good information and links that might interest you.

@Knaak - thanks for these links.  I've been reading them and wishing we had a fasting thread going right now. 

I decided to see if eating more food would solve my 2-4 pm slump and I feel so gross and overstuffed.  And I didn't even eat that much.  I keep 'thinking' my body needs more food, but it doesn't.  I don't know what it needs.  Maybe purposely removing food from the equation altogether will give me some answers. 

I want to do the 36 hr fast but I think I'm a bit scared.

I've been feeling something similar, getting low energy at times, until today! Full clarity the whole day, including some good exercise in the gym. Could it be that you are on negative calories now and your body isn't quite keto adapted yet. Of course you are in ketosis, but you simply may not absorb quite enough energy from the ketones?

It could be.  After processing some stuff last night about why I'm afraid of doing the 36-hr fast, I'm feeling some relief and peace at the idea of not having to think about food today.  I'm not sure if fasting will speed up the adaptation or not.  We'll see!  :)