Author Topic: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!  (Read 309274 times)

paulkots

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #450 on: January 15, 2020, 02:59:47 PM »
Haven't drank since January 2nd, had a few moments when I tried to make an excuse to myself just to have a few pints. As usual, the hardest part is social and my friends are mostly not drinkers, I am the one that enjoys kicking back a few every Thursday that we meet up. I have a goal set to late April, if I fail, it will cost me money since there is a 3 way bet going.

wenchsenior

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #451 on: January 15, 2020, 03:38:39 PM »
I'm posting to follow.

I am on the fence as this is something I would love to try, but so much of my social life involves drinking - going out for dinner and sharing wine, or going over to someone's house and bringing some nice wine to share. Also my husband and I really enjoy opening a bottle of wine on weekends and finishing it off in one night.

However, it's starting to affect my sleep as I get older. I notice that after drinking just one glass of wine in the evening, I wake up in the middle of the night and toss and turn for a while.

I just ordered The Naked Mind from the library. I think I'm looking for more motivation to take a break from alcohol. I have a really stressful job so it does help me unwind, however I'm looking into meditation as well, and I think developing a meditation practice and calming the mind that way might be a healthier unwinding tool.

Hope you don't mind a fence-sitter joining the group. I appreciate the book advice and maybe I'll be further inspired by your journeys here.

I was absolutely a fence-sitter when I first started reading this thread (which I incorrectly assumed was going to be full of judgemental tee-totalers), and I spent a couple weeks as a fence-sitter, drinking mindfully and absorbing some of Annie Grace's material and that of other websites/podcasts...and by the end of it, I WANTED to try it.  I think it's actually helpful to really pay attention to your drinking just before you start, or in the first couple days of the experiment.

CrustyBadger

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #452 on: January 15, 2020, 08:02:16 PM »
When I drink I definitely notice effects on my sleep. I wake up, toss and turn, and I feel less rested in the morning. Two weeks into dry January now and I'm feeling really good. No temptations really, other than an event where some of my teammates tried to get me to drink. I had to say no a few times, but I was pretty comfortable with it and I think I was able to make them understand why I don't want to give in. Last year I made a few exceptions for special events in January, but by the end of the month it didn't even really feel like I had given up drinking. My dry month in August was much better, I made no drinking exceptions. I'm going to approach the next decision though: do I stop a week early because I'm going on vacation, or do I have a dry vacation? Thoughts are welcome.

Well, you say that you aren't drinking now and you feel really good, and you are sleeping well and wake rested in the mornings.  So, why not continue that good feeling into your vacation?

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #453 on: January 16, 2020, 03:29:17 AM »
RE Drinking or not on vacation,  whatever you do please  don't be miserable and white knuckle it your entire vacation.  I would maybe be sober first few days and if you want to then do indulge the last few days.  Plan on  another 30 days in February.  I feel like you need the right attitude like some  one said sober curious.  I wanted to try life without alcohol.  I also feel 30 days is not enough time to change habits around drinking.  Although the energy boost was real and I felt that early. I actually felt best at around the 3 months mark. 

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #454 on: January 16, 2020, 05:47:04 AM »
RE Drinking or not on vacation,  whatever you do please  don't be miserable and white knuckle it your entire vacation.  I would maybe be sober first few days and if you want to then do indulge the last few days.  Plan on  another 30 days in February.  I feel like you need the right attitude like some  one said sober curious.  I wanted to try life without alcohol.  I also feel 30 days is not enough time to change habits around drinking.  Although the energy boost was real and I felt that early. I actually felt best at around the 3 months mark.

I think if PP wants to try an alcohol free vacation, then some prep with This Naked Mind, Allen Carr's book and/or The Alcohol Experiment 30 day challenge would be a good idea.

Trying to white knuckle it would be a terrible idea.

PoutineLover

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #455 on: January 16, 2020, 06:17:59 AM »
Thanks for all the perspectives. I would like to read the book first, unfortunately my library doesn't have it though. I already did the thirty day challenge for my last sober month.
I'm not so concerned about white knuckling it or not enjoying it because I'm dry. I'm going to be the only driver, so I wouldn't be drinking all the much anyway. It's mostly that a big part of traveling for me is trying local food and drink, and often alcohol is a good part of that.
Right now I'm thinking a good compromise would be to allow drinks, but only stuff I can't get in Canada (and only in moderation and when I'm not driving obviously). And then when I come back, extend to dry February. The month of dryness itself is arbitrary, and I'm not planning on quitting completely yet. It seems silly to make myself miss out on interesting new drinks only to go back to the same old stuff right after I get back.

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #456 on: January 16, 2020, 06:34:29 AM »
If you've already done Annie Grace's 30 day alcohol experiment, then consider Allen Carr's book.

I find that Annie's content is largely based on Allen's book, but his style is very different.

Or did you mean that you've just already done 30 days sober, not The Alcohol Experiment 30 days?

Frugal Lizard

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #457 on: January 16, 2020, 06:45:11 AM »
I have almost reduced my alcohol consumption to zero - not quite.  I am coping with PTSD symptoms that were diagnosed in May 2019.  Having a drink seems to make the symptoms worse. I am finding the cultural aspects of partaking challenging.  Last time I wasn't drinking, I was pregnant and that is so easy for everyone to accept.

PoutineLover

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #458 on: January 16, 2020, 08:04:48 AM »
If you've already done Annie Grace's 30 day alcohol experiment, then consider Allen Carr's book.

I find that Annie's content is largely based on Allen's book, but his style is very different.

Or did you mean that you've just already done 30 days sober, not The Alcohol Experiment 30 days?
I did the alcohol experiment, and skimmed most of the emails. Reviewing it now, I realize that I never did the journal questions and I didn't always read deeply, because I figured I was doing fine saying no on my own. Going through it now, I think doing the work might help me actually challenge the baseline assumptions I have instead of just checking off days. After that, maybe I'll buy the book.
I almost wish I was pregnant just so I'd have an easy reason that people wouldn't challenge. It's sort of irritating to hear stuff like "oh, are you still doing that? Just take one cheat day" or "if you don't have an alcohol problem then you don't need to stop" or people asking me if I'm pregnant. Drinking culture is so engrained in my friends and family and no one really understands why I might want to stop. I don't even consider myself a really heavy drinker, but having tracked my consumption before I drink about 1/3 days and almost 10 drinks/week on average so the upper limit of guidelines for women. I also find I've been slowly putting on weight and is like to reverse that trend before it gets worse. Physical activity and good nutrition are important too, but there are a lot of wasted calories in booze.

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #459 on: January 16, 2020, 08:11:37 AM »
Yeah, the program is very much based on CBT and you have to pay attention and do the exercises for that to work properly.

Some people are highly responsive to CBT and others aren't. I find it also depends on how the rest of your life looks as well. If your life is a dumpster fire, a morning email, a 12 minute video, and some journaling probably isn't going to suffice to resolve using alcohol as a self medication.

However, if it's a moderate habit, you are a mentally healthy person, and you are just looking to alter a pattern of behaviour, then it's probably more than enough to get a great result.

wenchsenior

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #460 on: January 16, 2020, 08:44:01 AM »
Re: drinking on vacation, I think the main thing is to make sure you try to go at least some of the time not drinking (so your subconscious can get a sense that you don't require a drink to have a good time).  If you do drink, try to do it as mindfully as you would if you were deep in the 'experiment' phase, and see exactly what you get out of it.  The half dozen or so drinks I've had since doing the AE back in March were nearly all on various trips/vacations, and it was educational.  A couple of them seemed extremely pleasant, others were 'meh'.    Overall, it's nice to know I sure don't have to drink on vacation to make the vacation experience 'complete' and I am sure going forward that I don't want to go through life planning to drink as part of every trip, or looking forward to my next 'cheat day'. 

Whatever you do, don't start guilt-tripping yourself or thinking, "It's too hard to stay AF, so screw it!" If you want to live mostly alcohol free, but find yourself drinking more on vacation that you really wanted to, then simply recommit when you get home, where you have more control over your routine, etc.

Re: doing the AE exercises, I agree that people won't get nearly as much out of that program if you don't do (or try to do) all of them. But I do great with CBT, so I might be biased.   

Tacopwr

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #461 on: January 16, 2020, 08:46:05 AM »
I gave in last weekend and had a few beers out of boredom. Honestly, even though they were Miller Lites I still felt kinda crappy the next day. Part of that could have been the atrocious sleep I got due to some loud animals in the house.

I have been abstaining since and things seem to be going well. I'm not gonna claim that I notice any cognitive or emotional improvements. I'm just doing the same things after work I normally would, but drinking water instead.

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #462 on: January 18, 2020, 10:57:10 AM »
So, y'know how I said that I really felt like I was missing out by starting the experiment after I had already quit? Well, I purposefully drank two nights ago as an experiment.

Annie and Allen both hammer home over and over again that alcohol tastes bad and getting drunk actually feels awful, but my memories just wouldn't support that. So despite having no cravings and no desire to drink, I opened a bottle of wine and observed it objectively.

Well...that was eye opening. Yikes.
Wine is disgusting.
It literally smells and tastes like gasoline, probably because it has basically gasoline in it. It wasn't until the third glass that my senses went numb enough for it to stop making me shudder with each gulp from the gas pump.

Remember how I said previously that I loved wine but didn't think I had an alcohol habit because I won't touch other booze? Yeah, turns out it's that I *did* have an alcohol habit, but wine was the only form that I had ever had the discipline to acquire a taste for. *Hellllo late teens wine coolers!*

Now that I don't want it, it tastes just like gin, vodka, whisky, etc, all of the other ethanol based drinks that I can barely choke down without making a face. I declared in my mid 20s "I'm over pretending to like whiskey, I don't care what anyone thinks about the fact that I fucking hate whiskey"

Just like Annie described in her drinking experiment, while drinking, I did nothing of any real interest. I worked on some mindless tasks that needed to be done but were neither challenging nor rewarding or interesting.

Wow, getting drunk was awful. I mean, really awful. I thought I liked that early, light buzz feeling, but it turns out that without the craving to relieve, it just feels like my head getting heavy and my balance being messed up.

Oh, and once DH got home, I became super self conscious about the fact that I sounded like a damn moron every time I spoke. I was just into my second glass at that point.

I drank a total of 500ml of wine before I just couldn't take it anymore. I was so bored, and eventually gave in and watched some TV. Ironically it was an episode of Big Love where one of the Mormon sister wives decides to start drinking wine and I kept thinking "oh, she's so fucked"

I also kept thinking "that's total BS! There's no way a 50 something woman who has never had any alcohol is going to be able to take her first sip of wine and find it drinkable. Piss off with that nonsense."

I purposely did this the night before work so that I would get the full experience of my next day suffering, and oh man, did I ever. Wow. What an awful way to wake up. Yesterday at work was like moving through molasses with rocks in my head.

In the end, I'm really glad I did it as now both my conscious and sub conscious mind are 100% bought in to the notion that it tastes awful and does nothing for me. I can comfortably tuck all of those drinking memories of the past few decades away as misrepresentations of reality that serve no purpose for future decision making.

Less than 3 weeks ago, I firmly believed that a full bodied red wine was the most refined, aromatic, and enjoyable flavour in the world, to be savoured, valued, and profoundly enjoyed. I come from a family that regularly hires a sommelier to curate the wine served at our parties.

Now it's spoiled grape flavoured gasoline that makes me foggy, stupid, and clumsy.

Talk about a paradigm shift.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #463 on: January 18, 2020, 11:18:44 AM »
@Malkynn, thanks for sharing your experience.

I spent the week at a work event where there was a lot of drinking. I abstained and, you know what, it was no big deal at all. I didn’t feel awkward or like I was missing out. A few colleagues asked if I was no longer drinking, but other than that it was no big deal. No one pressured me to drink and I never felt like I was missing out on any fun. I’ve enjoyed not having a drinking fog, I’m sleeping better, anxiety has gone down and I feel more energetic.

I haven’t specifically said anything about my drinking (or lack thereof) to my DH, although he has seen that I’m reading This Naked Mind. He told me this morning that he hasn’t had a drink since the new year began and he hasn’t missed it. My own experiment seems to be resulting in positives for both of us.

wenchsenior

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #464 on: January 18, 2020, 11:58:13 AM »
So, y'know how I said that I really felt like I was missing out by starting the experiment after I had already quit? Well, I purposefully drank two nights ago as an experiment.

Annie and Allen both hammer home over and over again that alcohol tastes bad and getting drunk actually feels awful, but my memories just wouldn't support that. So despite having no cravings and no desire to drink, I opened a bottle of wine and observed it objectively.

Well...that was eye opening. Yikes.
Wine is disgusting.
It literally smells and tastes like gasoline, probably because it has basically gasoline in it. It wasn't until the third glass that my senses went numb enough for it to stop making me shudder with each gulp from the gas pump.

Remember how I said previously that I loved wine but didn't think I had an alcohol habit because I won't touch other booze? Yeah, turns out it's that I *did* have an alcohol habit, but wine was the only form that I had ever had the discipline to acquire a taste for. *Hellllo late teens wine coolers!*

Now that I don't want it, it tastes just like gin, vodka, whisky, etc, all of the other ethanol based drinks that I can barely choke down without making a face. I declared in my mid 20s "I'm over pretending to like whiskey, I don't care what anyone thinks about the fact that I fucking hate whiskey"

Just like Annie described in her drinking experiment, while drinking, I did nothing of any real interest. I worked on some mindless tasks that needed to be done but were neither challenging nor rewarding or interesting.

Wow, getting drunk was awful. I mean, really awful. I thought I liked that early, light buzz feeling, but it turns out that without the craving to relieve, it just feels like my head getting heavy and my balance being messed up.

Oh, and once DH got home, I became super self conscious about the fact that I sounded like a damn moron every time I spoke. I was just into my second glass at that point.

I drank a total of 500ml of wine before I just couldn't take it anymore. I was so bored, and eventually gave in and watched some TV. Ironically it was an episode of Big Love where one of the Mormon sister wives decides to start drinking wine and I kept thinking "oh, she's so fucked"

I also kept thinking "that's total BS! There's no way a 50 something woman who has never had any alcohol is going to be able to take her first sip of wine and find it drinkable. Piss off with that nonsense."

I purposely did this the night before work so that I would get the full experience of my next day suffering, and oh man, did I ever. Wow. What an awful way to wake up. Yesterday at work was like moving through molasses with rocks in my head.

In the end, I'm really glad I did it as now both my conscious and sub conscious mind are 100% bought in to the notion that it tastes awful and does nothing for me. I can comfortably tuck all of those drinking memories of the past few decades away as misrepresentations of reality that serve no purpose for future decision making.

Less than 3 weeks ago, I firmly believed that a full bodied red wine was the most refined, aromatic, and enjoyable flavour in the world, to be savoured, valued, and profoundly enjoyed. I come from a family that regularly hires a sommelier to curate the wine served at our parties.

Now it's spoiled grape flavoured gasoline that makes me foggy, stupid, and clumsy.

Talk about a paradigm shift.

Great post.  I know what you mean about becoming super aware of that transition during the second glass of wine; when I pay attention to what I'm feeling and doing, I start wanting to clap my hand over my own mouth about halfway through my second drink LOL.  Ironically, I notice that is also where I start to turn 'internal'...into my own head in a weird way, and don't engage as well with whomever I'm talking to.

However, I must say that the 'alcohol tastes like crap thing' still hasn't struck me, almost a year out.. I still truly enjoy the taste...my small handful of drinks in the past year has included 1 IPA (still delicious), 1 G&T (unbelievably f*ing delicious...this is the flavor I really want to work on replicating without the gin [maybe with herbs and juniper berries] b/c it's so amazing), red wine (still love the taste), and imported Irish whiskey (delicious and smells fantastic...so fantastic that I actually make my husband drink his whiskey at least several feet away from me at all times). 

Alas, I doubt taste is ever going to keep me away!  That's ok, though...lots of other reasons not to drink.

mspym

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #465 on: January 18, 2020, 12:54:44 PM »
I had a slightly similar version of Malkynn's experiment but with Naltrexone. Turns out that with the buzz blocked from hitting your pleasure receptors, you can actually taste what you are drinking and wine tastes not great. I ended up asking Ofpym if the wine was spoiled (it wasn't) and stopped before finishing my first glass.

I sometimes drink 3/4 of a NA beer and enjoy it, but generally if I am looking for the IPA bite I'll have grapefruit juice in soda water. If I want something that feels fancy, I'll have one of the Italian NA aperitifs. A company in Melbourne makes NA spirits for the G&T yearners.

Mmm_Donuts

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #466 on: January 18, 2020, 04:32:43 PM »
So, I'm on day 4 of the Alcohol Experiment.

I haven't had a drink though in over a week - maybe 8 or 9 days ago. It was a glass of red wine at home at the end of a tough day.

So far I can't say I've had any cravings. But what's been going through my head has been figuring out what to do about future social events. This coming Tuesday I have plans to go out with friends for dinner and drinks and this makes me worry. I still haven't decided what to do - whether to abstain or just try it out. I suppose this would be a good time for the testing to begin: thinking about how I feel before, during, and after the first drink.

I've also been thinking - I just love the taste of wine! So your post above was interesting, Malkynn. We'll see if my taste preferences remain true by the end of the 30 days.

Other observations so far - I have had a couple of terrible sleeps the past couple of nights. Waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall back asleep for hours, tossing and turning with racing thoughts and worries (mostly about nothing.) This is the type of thing that happens when I DO drink. So I don't really understand why it's happening now. Could this be part of the process of alcohol leaving my system, since it takes ~ 10 days? Or coincidence?

I am curious how it all goes down. I don't feel like I have a physical dependency (though could be fooling myself.) Mostly for me it is psychological. It seems like I drink to a) socialize and have fun and b) to relax after a stressful day and c) as entertainment / bonding with my hubby, who is very interested in wines and regions and all that stuff. So my worries and fears relate to those 3 major triggers.

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #467 on: January 18, 2020, 04:48:25 PM »
Donuts, if you haven't done a social event sober, then it's a really good idea just to try it. It won't hurt you and you will learn a lot more by not drinking than by drinking. You already know what socializing is like with alcohol.

In my first week I had a few alcohol intense events and I had some stress leading up to them, but getting through them easily took all of the pressure off of anticipating future alcohol filled events. It really is a non issue most people just won't care.

Also, the experiment I did was to specifically drink while not doing anything even remotely fun, so that I could observe what the effect of the alcohol alone was. I cracked and watched TV eventually because I was so painfully bored and miserable. The point was to observe without distraction. I could not have done that experiment socializing with friends.

The reasons I did what I did was because I had already pretty much decided I didn't want to drink ever again. I wasn't testing my limits, I was putting the last nail into the coffin.

I'm quite positive that if I still had some subconscious urge to drink, that wine still would have tasted good. It's not hard to lose an acquired taste, but it's also pretty easy to hold on to.

Mmm_Donuts

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #468 on: January 18, 2020, 05:00:21 PM »
You're right - it would be better to do that wine test at home in a quiet setting where I can really focus internally.

I'm also starting a meditation program right now so the whole idea of cognitive dissonance and working through internal conflicts is very interesting. It's just part of being human! So this is a good testing ground for ALL of it, as it relates to so many things in life.

And I like the gentle / non-judgmental approach. It's all about getting curious about how the mind works vs cycling through having willpower or not.

Quote
I'm quite positive that if I still had some subconscious urge to drink, that wine still would have tasted good.

That is a really cool litmus test for the subconscious!

seemsright

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #469 on: January 18, 2020, 06:43:17 PM »
I am not sure when I posted that I was giving up the Hooch. And I can say life is so much better without it. I have shrunk out of my leggings. I sleep so much better. I am enjoying sex again, I can handle my 9 year old and her banter. I have been trying to lose weight for a long time. I also have changed my workouts to much more yoga, walking and pilates and holly hell I am so much more calm.

I also found a podcast that was very eye opening to me. It lists a basic 75 day challenge. 1 45 minute workout outside, 1 45 additional workout, follow a diet plan you plan for yourself,  1 gallon of water, a progress picture, and reading 10 pages in a book that you learn something.

Something about this really spoke to me. I will link the podcast. It is not the most pc one out there and if you can get through the noise the message is pretty amazing. This might help someone.
 https://andyfrisella.com/blogs/mfceo-project-podcast/75hard-a-75-day-tactical-guide-to-winning-the-war-with-yourself-with-andy-frisella-mfceo291

dominikm

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #470 on: January 18, 2020, 08:09:43 PM »
I quit drinking in April 2016.

I can't say life has changed all that much. More cash in my pocket I suppose. And I did used to think alcohol equated to being social and that's entirely untrue. I can go out with other people who are drunk and have a good time. I doubt I'd want to clubbing though. Then again I'm past that age being in my early 30s anyhow. I'm not 21 anymore haha!

I didn't have a problem with booze. I quit originally as I flew to Thailand for a fitness holiday and figured if I'm going to do this I';ll do it right so no booze. And I just never went back to the booze. Now an again I get a thought of a beer or something else would be really go right about now. But that's really it. Nothing more.

DrinkCoffeeStackMoney

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #471 on: January 21, 2020, 02:48:00 PM »
I stopped drinking in November 2006 for religious reasons and didn't touch a drop of alcohol again until November 2018.

Ditching organized religion and having the occasional drink again are two of the best decisions I've ever made. Why? Because both decisions make me happy. 

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #472 on: January 22, 2020, 04:36:08 AM »
I stopped drinking in November 2006 for religious reasons and didn't touch a drop of alcohol again until November 2018.

Ditching organized religion and having the occasional drink again are two of the best decisions I've ever made. Why? Because both decisions make me happy.

Um...

onemorebike

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #473 on: January 22, 2020, 05:04:49 AM »
I stopped drinking in November 2006 for religious reasons and didn't touch a drop of alcohol again until November 2018.

Ditching organized religion and having the occasional drink again are two of the best decisions I've ever made. Why? Because both decisions make me happy.

Um...
I thought about umming here too but figured I'd just let it be.

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Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #474 on: January 22, 2020, 05:10:15 AM »
I stopped drinking in November 2006 for religious reasons and didn't touch a drop of alcohol again until November 2018.

Ditching organized religion and having the occasional drink again are two of the best decisions I've ever made. Why? Because both decisions make me happy.

Um...
I thought about umming here too but figured I'd just let it be.

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I tried so hard to leave it alone, I really did...

Mmm_Donuts

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #475 on: January 22, 2020, 06:09:11 AM »
I went out for dinner last night with friends and had a mocktail. Nobody asked why I wasn't drinking, everyone else had their glass of wine and it was NBD. I felt no need to make any sort of big pronouncement. Such a relief!

I did feel a little twinge of wanting a glass of wine though. I find I'm drinking more sweet stuff when I go out just as a treat (or distraction!) but I don't usually drink mocktails or juice. So in terms of drinking experience I would rather be drinking wine and I guess I felt a bit bitter about that.

BUT - I am sleeping better now. I've had 2 great sleeps. So far the pluses are outweighing the minuses.

DrinkCoffeeStackMoney

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #476 on: January 22, 2020, 08:39:05 AM »
I stopped drinking in November 2006 for religious reasons and didn't touch a drop of alcohol again until November 2018.

Ditching organized religion and having the occasional drink again are two of the best decisions I've ever made. Why? Because both decisions make me happy.

Um...
I thought about umming here too but figured I'd just let it be.

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I tried so hard to leave it alone, I really did...

Why the um...

Is there an issue with what I posted?

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #477 on: January 22, 2020, 08:48:20 AM »
I think its been 2 full weeks now not drinking. It wasn't intentional though. I was sick the week before last so having a drink wasn't appealing.

I am also super broke atm and need to ration funds until tax returns. So I literally can't afford it right now.

Tyson

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #478 on: January 22, 2020, 09:14:46 AM »
I stopped drinking in November 2006 for religious reasons and didn't touch a drop of alcohol again until November 2018.

Ditching organized religion and having the occasional drink again are two of the best decisions I've ever made. Why? Because both decisions make me happy.

Um...
I thought about umming here too but figured I'd just let it be.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I tried so hard to leave it alone, I really did...

Why the um...

Is there an issue with what I posted?

It's uncool to post about how much you love alcohol in a thread dedicated to people giving it up. 

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #479 on: January 22, 2020, 09:45:09 AM »
I stopped drinking in November 2006 for religious reasons and didn't touch a drop of alcohol again until November 2018.

Ditching organized religion and having the occasional drink again are two of the best decisions I've ever made. Why? Because both decisions make me happy.

Um...
I thought about umming here too but figured I'd just let it be.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I tried so hard to leave it alone, I really did...

Why the um...

Is there an issue with what I posted?

It's uncool to post about how much you love alcohol in a thread dedicated to people giving it up.

It's certainly an interesting choice.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #480 on: January 22, 2020, 09:59:24 AM »
I haven't been drinking much alcohol recently -- a beer or glass of wine with dinner about 1-3 times per week on average for most of last year.  But my wife and I kind of fell into a dry-January thing without really intending to.  I've had one beer this month.  There was a stray bottle in the fridge that I was tired of looking at, so I impulsively decided to drink it one evening.  It wasn't very satisfying.

My wife and I have both noticed improved sleep quality this month, and I think it's reasonable to attribute some of that to not having any alcohol in the evenings.  The other big thing is that not buying a bottle or two of wine while grocery shopping each week (my wife had a near-daily glass of wine) has cut around 10% from our grocery bill.

We're going out to eat and to a concert in a couple weeks, and I do look forward to enjoying a good draft beer (or two) that evening.  But otherwise I think we're both happy not drinking alcohol on a regular basis.

jps

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #481 on: January 22, 2020, 10:20:54 AM »
I stopped drinking in November 2006 for religious reasons and didn't touch a drop of alcohol again until November 2018.

Ditching organized religion and having the occasional drink again are two of the best decisions I've ever made. Why? Because both decisions make me happy.

Um...
I thought about umming here too but figured I'd just let it be.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I tried so hard to leave it alone, I really did...

Why the um...

Is there an issue with what I posted?

It's uncool to post about how much you love alcohol in a thread dedicated to people giving it up.

It's certainly an interesting choice.

I don't know, y'all. It sounds like this person gave up booze for as long as they pleased. That's the whole name of the thread. Congrats to DrinkCoffeeAndStackMoney for enjoying a healthy relationship with an occasional drink, and congratulations to every one else who is choosing another route!

DrinkCoffeeStackMoney

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #482 on: January 22, 2020, 10:29:38 AM »
I stopped drinking in November 2006 for religious reasons and didn't touch a drop of alcohol again until November 2018.

Ditching organized religion and having the occasional drink again are two of the best decisions I've ever made. Why? Because both decisions make me happy.

Um...
I thought about umming here too but figured I'd just let it be.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I tried so hard to leave it alone, I really did...

Why the um...

Is there an issue with what I posted?

It's uncool to post about how much you love alcohol in a thread dedicated to people giving it up.

It's certainly an interesting choice.

I don't know, y'all. It sounds like this person gave up booze for as long as they pleased. That's the whole name of the thread. Congrats to DrinkCoffeeAndStackMoney for enjoying a healthy relationship with an occasional drink, and congratulations to every one else who is choosing another route!

JPS,

You got the whole point of my original post, others didn't, which is fine. My post was never intended to offend anyone but maybe it did.
I was just posting my experience with alcohol and my current point of view that the occasional drink brings joy to me and is now looked at as a simple pleasure of my life.

Regardless, good luck to those trying to give up the booze.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 10:54:00 AM by DrinkCoffeeAndStackMoney »

Spud

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #483 on: January 25, 2020, 12:46:33 AM »
Posting to follow and contribute.

In my life I probably had about 10 years of consistent moderate to binge drinking from the age of 17 to 27. That covers late high school, through university and about 5 years post university in the adult world. It wasn't a problem. I drank less than a lot of the people I know. Looking back however, it was riddled with issues, mainly around mood, mild anxiety and really poor sleep, compounded by the fact that drinking often meant staying up late. All my friends were the same, but that's what young people do, right? They drink a lot and allegedly have fun doing it.

My drinking dropped off in 2009 because I started spending less time with friends who liked to party and because I realised that being quite drunk whenever I was socialising (which wasn't that often) really hindered my ability to make friends and meet a lady.

Once I started dating my wife in 2011, my drinking really dropped, because all socialising was in large groups of couples, or in small groups of couples. It was more adult, more polite, more refined. No more "Shooters then a club!"

Then from about 2014 onward my drinking decreased again. I noticed that without thinking about it I'd have 2 or 3 drinks in fairly quick succession at the start of the night and then stop drinking completely because experience had shown me that drinking more made me feel crap, both at the time and the day(s) after.

On my wedding reception night (3 weeks after the actually wedding) in November 2015, I had 2 drinks, and only enjoyed the first drink and a half. By this point I was basically T-Total i.e. I could comfortably go for 4 months without drinking, and then have a couple of drinks at a social event and go back to months of not drinking. I remember I got really drunk on about 8 drinks one weekend in 2017 and then didn't drink again until November 2017.

In July 2019, I finally decided to stop drinking. Why? Because by that point in the year I'd had a total of about 5 alcoholic drinks since January 1st, 2019, and each time I had just one drink on a given day, I woke up in the night, really hot, really uncomfortable and didn't feel right the next day. Maybe not a hangover (not a severe one anyway), but a realisation that the very minimal enjoyment I got from consuming alcohol, was now massively outweighed by the negative effects the following day.

Also, I discovered at Christmas 2018 that my 22 year old cousin no longer drank because he did a placement year abroad whilst at university. He went to Texas for 9 months and after watching countless people get really fucked up at parties, and not really liking the taste of it, he decided he was done. He also has an alcoholic Uncle (who is a dumpster fire) providing him with extra motivation. I was inspired by my cousin. At his age I was a dick. So I decided to quit.

I only have one friend who I don't see that often who may have a slight issue with it (because he really does drink too much and likes everyone around him to be drinking if he is) but other than that nobody has said anything. My wife supports it but does seem to think it's a phase, no matter how many times I tell her that's it, I'm done. I don't get any cravings, I don't like the taste, I don't enjoy it. It doesn't enhance my socially.

Funny experience was standing in a bar in the middle of everything on the work Christmas do, and watching everyone around me go from being sober professionals to oversized drunk toddlers in the space of about 4 hours, and then seeing them the following morning in the office looking like ghosts and complaining about it.

I like not drinking. I like the simplicity of it. There's no debate of when, where, what, how much or who with. All those variables and decisions are eliminated. I don't drink. At all. Simple. It's really freeing.

Reading about @Malkynn 's experience was awesome. I haven't gone through anything that immediate, but I think I've unwittingly conducted the same experiment at a slower rate over a much longer period of time.

OtherJen

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #484 on: January 31, 2020, 07:12:46 AM »
Following and possibly joining.

Up until the end of last year, I was regularly having two glasses of wine or servings of liquor every night. Not all at once—I’ve never liked being drunk—but one after I finished working and another after dinner. I liked the smell and taste and (let’s be honest) the mild, warm fuzzy sensation.

I’ve cut way back since the new year, mostly thanks to new dietary restrictions due to husband’s health issues, and now maybe have one drink on 3 or 4 nights per week. I don’t crave it and have intended to consider it a treat since I actually do enjoy the flavor of some wines, whiskeys, and tequilas (I don’t ever do shots).

Two recent incidents are giving me pause regarding that strategy.

First, we went out on a date night a couple of weeks ago: sushi and green tea at a good restaurant, followed by a round of after-dinner drinks. I ordered a martini, one of my previous favorites, and noticed right before I took a sip that the gin smelled like lab solvent (which is one use for ethanol). Even on a full stomach, I was plastered off of that one drink (I vaguely remember asking my husband if there was ketamine in it) and felt awful the next day. I’m done with gin (and by extension, vodka).

Second, I had an absolutely horrible day earlier this week. I decided for some reason that it would be a good idea to have a serving of whiskey that evening, followed by a large glass of wine. Nope. I caught myself babbling about random shit at husband, had to restrain myself from responding to all emails in my inbox and posting drivel on all forms of social media, and then had weird dreams and poor sleep all night. Woke up the next morning with a headache, stomachache, and overall ickiness and craving greasy “hangover” food (which I don’t normally eat).

I’m not ready to say that I won’t ever drink alcohol again, but I’m done drinking as a habit. Even though one drink early in the evening doesn’t seem to affect my sleep, etc., it isn’t something I need to have. More than that clearly has terrible effects. And the thought of drinking gin again is actually repulsive.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #485 on: February 01, 2020, 08:54:12 AM »
I’m not ready to say that I won’t ever drink alcohol again, but I’m done drinking as a habit.

I think that's a wise way to approach it.  From the rest of our post, I see you've already tuned  into the negative affects, so in the future just being more intentional about if/when you choose to consume alcohol is an excellent policy.  Habits can be good things or insidious things, and it's pretty clear that alcohol consumption falls into the latter category.

Quote
Even though one drink early in the evening doesn’t seem to affect my sleep, etc., it isn’t something I need to have.

It's possible that one drink early enough won't substantially affect your sleep.  That depends a lot on how much alcohol was in the drink, and individual differences in metabolism.  But from what I've read and experienced, even a small amount of alcohol can be enough to impact your sleep quality to some degree.

I rarely or never dream (or at least remember dreaming) the night following a drink or more after dinner.  That implies a disruption in REM sleep, and REM is thought to be an important component of the restorative effects of sleep.  The long-term health effects of "somewhat" reduced sleep quality are hard to quantify, but given the importance of sleep on all aspects of our health, it's not something I want to roll the dice with.  Or at least not very often!

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #486 on: February 08, 2020, 07:08:05 AM »
How is everyone doing?

Still happily booze free here while all of my IRL Dry January compatriots are back to drinking, so I've lost a bunch of my sober buddies :(

I've been to a bunch of open bar events with no issue, but I have identified one thing that I do genuinely miss about being a red wine drinker: having a not cold beverage.

It's bloody cold where I live for half the year, and often I'm in dresses at these events while the men are in suits, so the temp is set for them not to overheat. I get chilly and then order this stupid cold glass of soda water that they always put ice in, even when I ask them not to.

I'm not loving that my only beverage options are ice cold all the time.

At restaurants I can order tea at least, although I hate shitty sawdust in a bag tea, but at open bar events, the only option I have is to clasp a freezing cold glass in my already freezing cold hand. There don't seem to be any room temperature non alcoholic options.

So yeah, cold drinks is my main struggle with quitting alcohol, so I'm considering that a win.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #487 on: February 08, 2020, 10:01:30 AM »
Nice job sticking with it, Malkynn.

So yeah, cold drinks is my main struggle with quitting alcohol, so I'm considering that a win.

Lol, that sounds a little aggravating.  But still a win regardless.

My intention wasn't necessarily to go completely dry, but I've only had two drinks since the beginning of the year.  One beer in January on a whim (didn't really enjoy), and one last week at a concert (enjoyed).  I'm ok with an occasional drink like that, which will probably work out to about once a month most months.  I feel great, and I'm sleeping great, and I have no desire to have a drink as a part of my normal daily/evening routine.  Oh, and I'm loving the lower grocery bill.  :)

Mmm_Donuts

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #488 on: February 08, 2020, 10:52:04 AM »
How is everyone doing?

So far so good! I am on day 25 of the Alcohol Experiment, but I hadn't had a drink before that since early January, so I'm pretty sure I've done over 30 days. It's been pretty great in terms of how I feel - I do feel more clear-headed, I've been sleeping better, definitely less stressed out. I feel more able to handle things when TSHTF. So, that's all good.

Struggles so far have been minimal. I feel a little left out when others are drinking things I used to enjoy, mainly wine and the occasional cocktail. I've discovered a couple tasty mocktails though and have been drinking a lot of flavoured water and herbal tea. I could see the cold weather / cold drink thing being a drag, especially since alcohol seems to have a warming effect. I haven't had to hang out in bars (yet) but I find restaurants have enough non alcoholic options that I like.

It's been 100% worth the minimal struggles. I don't really feel any urge to go back to drinking!

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #489 on: February 08, 2020, 12:41:19 PM »
I am just over 5 months this go round, I do feel great.  Mostly I attribute feeling good to the improved sleep. I was tempted today at a bar, and seems alcohol is everywhere. Plan is for a year or more so I am hanging in there. Most days i am fine without it.

PoutineLover

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #490 on: February 08, 2020, 02:26:36 PM »
I decided to pause dry January to drink on vacation, and tbh it was a bit disappointing. The beer wasn't that interesting and the liquor tasted like vodka which I don't even like. So it felt like a waste of breaking dry January. I decided to do dry February to make up for it and a week in I am glad I'm still doing it. The more I don't drink, the more I don't enjoy drinking.

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #491 on: February 09, 2020, 06:31:28 AM »
Was feeling the desire to drink rather strongly yesterday when I posted. Triggered by the beer Taps, and reaction to fighting with my spouse, going out with drinking friends later. But I did abstain, and I had a good time without the booze, and maintaining my sobriety for another who knows how long. I guess time away makes me forget the bad and romanticizing the good. The beer taps were inviting but when I look back it was just crappie beer that I had before, plain and regular flavor, typical trailer show stuff.

I did try this non alcoholic beer called athletic brewing and I am very impressed with the non alcoholic brew, I had the stout and my spouse had the IPA. They are out of Connecticut and have mail order. I can’t wait to try it on draft. To me taste like a 4% beer.

Jtrey17

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #492 on: February 09, 2020, 06:44:19 AM »
So glad to have found this thread! I quit for 2020 and don’t plan to ever start again. For me, it was the fact even though I didn’t drink often (maybe every 6 weeks or so) I always over drank and was hungover. Add to that I smoke when I drink, I was plain tired of feeling like crap! I love feeling great! Can’t wait to read this thread entirely-best of luck to everyone!

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #493 on: February 09, 2020, 06:48:27 AM »
Smoking is the worst! Nothing good ever come of that. Hope you can stay away from both. Good luck, and check in when you can

Jtrey17

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #494 on: February 09, 2020, 06:49:18 AM »
Following and possibly joining.

Up until the end of last year, I was regularly having two glasses of wine or servings of liquor every night. Not all at once—I’ve never liked being drunk—but one after I finished working and another after dinner. I liked the smell and taste and (let’s be honest) the mild, warm fuzzy sensation.

I’ve cut way back since the new year, mostly thanks to new dietary restrictions due to husband’s health issues, and now maybe have one drink on 3 or 4 nights per week. I don’t crave it and have intended to consider it a treat since I actually do enjoy the flavor of some wines, whiskeys, and tequilas (I don’t ever do shots).

Two recent incidents are giving me pause regarding that strategy.

First, we went out on a date night a couple of weeks ago: sushi and green tea at a good restaurant, followed by a round of after-dinner drinks. I ordered a martini, one of my previous favorites, and noticed right before I took a sip that the gin smelled like lab solvent (which is one use for ethanol). Even on a full stomach, I was plastered off of that one drink (I vaguely remember asking my husband if there was ketamine in it) and felt awful the next day. I’m done with gin (and by extension, vodka).

Second, I had an absolutely horrible day earlier this week. I decided for some reason that it would be a good idea to have a serving of whiskey that evening, followed by a large glass of wine. Nope. I caught myself babbling about random shit at husband, had to restrain myself from responding to all emails in my inbox and posting drivel on all forms of social media, and then had weird dreams and poor sleep all night. Woke up the next morning with a headache, stomachache, and overall ickiness and craving greasy “hangover” food (which I don’t normally eat).

I’m not ready to say that I won’t ever drink alcohol again, but I’m done drinking as a habit. Even though one drink early in the evening doesn’t seem to affect my sleep, etc., it isn’t something I need to have. More than that clearly has terrible effects. And the thought of drinking gin again is actually repulsive.
Best of luck to you! I’ve had plenty of hungover mornings, panicking to see if I said anything stupid on social media or sent any cringe-worthy texts the night before. For me, it’s either no drinking, or I’m drunk. There’s not much in between.

Jtrey17

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #495 on: February 09, 2020, 06:51:10 AM »
Smoking is the worst! Nothing good ever come of that. Hope you can stay away from both. Good luck, and check in when you can
It is the worst! And thank you, I plan to check in regularly. Great topic.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #496 on: February 09, 2020, 07:38:30 AM »
Triggered by the beer Taps, and reaction to fighting with my spouse, going out with drinking friends later. But I did abstain, and I had a good time without the booze, and maintaining my sobriety for another who knows how long.

Sorry about the fight with your spouse.  That's even worse than struggles with alcohol temptation IMO. :/  I'm glad you did abstain though!

OtherJen

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #497 on: February 09, 2020, 07:51:47 AM »
Following and possibly joining.

Up until the end of last year, I was regularly having two glasses of wine or servings of liquor every night. Not all at once—I’ve never liked being drunk—but one after I finished working and another after dinner. I liked the smell and taste and (let’s be honest) the mild, warm fuzzy sensation.

I’ve cut way back since the new year, mostly thanks to new dietary restrictions due to husband’s health issues, and now maybe have one drink on 3 or 4 nights per week. I don’t crave it and have intended to consider it a treat since I actually do enjoy the flavor of some wines, whiskeys, and tequilas (I don’t ever do shots).

Two recent incidents are giving me pause regarding that strategy.

First, we went out on a date night a couple of weeks ago: sushi and green tea at a good restaurant, followed by a round of after-dinner drinks. I ordered a martini, one of my previous favorites, and noticed right before I took a sip that the gin smelled like lab solvent (which is one use for ethanol). Even on a full stomach, I was plastered off of that one drink (I vaguely remember asking my husband if there was ketamine in it) and felt awful the next day. I’m done with gin (and by extension, vodka).

Second, I had an absolutely horrible day earlier this week. I decided for some reason that it would be a good idea to have a serving of whiskey that evening, followed by a large glass of wine. Nope. I caught myself babbling about random shit at husband, had to restrain myself from responding to all emails in my inbox and posting drivel on all forms of social media, and then had weird dreams and poor sleep all night. Woke up the next morning with a headache, stomachache, and overall ickiness and craving greasy “hangover” food (which I don’t normally eat).

I’m not ready to say that I won’t ever drink alcohol again, but I’m done drinking as a habit. Even though one drink early in the evening doesn’t seem to affect my sleep, etc., it isn’t something I need to have. More than that clearly has terrible effects. And the thought of drinking gin again is actually repulsive.
Best of luck to you! I’ve had plenty of hungover mornings, panicking to see if I said anything stupid on social media or sent any cringe-worthy texts the night before. For me, it’s either no drinking, or I’m drunk. There’s not much in between.

Best of luck to you too! This thread has been really eye-opening, and I thank everyone for sharing their insights and progress.

I’ve had a total of three drinks in the past week.

One was a hard cider at a Super Bowl party, mainly because my friend had bought them so I would have a gluten-free beer alternative (I have celiac disease so beer is right out). It was overly sweet and unnecessary, and I stuck with diet soda the rest of the night.

The second was a serving of my favorite whiskey over plenty of ice while out for dinner on Friday. That was a genuine treat. The price alone kept me from wanting to order a second. We then went home and had big glasses of ice cold club soda.

The third was last night, a small glass of red wine with dinner. I poured it because it was the first time I’d had beef since Christmas. It tasted okay, but was completely unnecessary.

The only one of those drinks I truly enjoyed was the whiskey. The others were either politeness or habit. Being more mindful has really given me some good insights about drinking. I don’t miss it when I don’t have it, and it rarely adds anything when I do. Plus, it’s expensive in many more ways than financial.

wenchsenior

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #498 on: February 09, 2020, 10:41:48 AM »
Was feeling the desire to drink rather strongly yesterday when I posted. Triggered by the beer Taps, and reaction to fighting with my spouse, going out with drinking friends later. But I did abstain, and I had a good time without the booze, and maintaining my sobriety for another who knows how long. I guess time away makes me forget the bad and romanticizing the good. The beer taps were inviting but when I look back it was just crappie beer that I had before, plain and regular flavor, typical trailer show stuff.

I did try this non alcoholic beer called athletic brewing and I am very impressed with the non alcoholic brew, I had the stout and my spouse had the IPA. They are out of Connecticut and have mail order. I can’t wait to try it on draft. To me taste like a 4% beer.

I've also had some cravings the past few days, for no particular reason as far as I can tell...mild crabbiness with ordinary-if-annoying life events has led me to be a little irritable when my husband pours his beer or whiskey.  I blame February...historically, my mood always goes to complete depressive shit during this month.  Relatively speaking, I'm actually doing really well mood-wise in general this winter, so I just need to remember to GO OUTSIDE every sunny day, and be more conscious of how I manage my moods.  Spring will be arriving (most likely) in 6 weeks.

One thing I am sure of...although I have very occasionally had a drink since I gave up my daily drinking habit almost a year ago, the sure sign that I should NOT be considering having one is when I actively have a nagging desire for one...I'm no longer feeding that default response to random stress.

BTDretire

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #499 on: February 23, 2020, 06:37:29 AM »
I rarely had a drink when my kids were younger and still at home, about the time they left for college, I herniated a couple of discs in my back and had sciatica and back pain. I started having a couple of drinks in the evening, and it became a regular ritual. This went on for eight or nine years, until just recently. Over the last six or eight months I'm finding, after a lot of suffering, my back pain has dwindled and keeping my fingers crossed, I rarely have any pain. The bottle is just sitting there and I have no interest, if I wasn't so frugal, I'd dump it out :-)

 I went through multiple MRI's, exrays, physical therapy, acupuncture, surgery consults, and recently, it just seems the pain is rarely felt. Two things happened, We had a hurricane with lots of damage to our home requiring me to work my butt off for months, (often in great pain) and at the same time we retired as our business was destroyed. Our business required my to constantly do heavy lifting.
 Either all the work changed my back, or all the lifting at work, exacerbated the back pain, and stopping was the help/cure. Or it could be, the herniated disc was finally reabsorbed.
 Anyway, I just lost my interest in alcohol.