The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Throw Down the Gauntlet => Topic started by: meerkat on November 13, 2017, 08:34:35 AM
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Have you been thinking about getting a will but haven't gotten around to it? Or life insurance? Or naming a guardian for your child? This is the place for you!
Everyone's journey is going to be a little bit different so I'm going to leave this a more flexible challenge where you create your own specific goals, similar to the fitness thread. When you post, please let us know what stage of the game you're at and what you'd like to try to accomplish, even if that means "figure out what I need to accomplish".
Welcome!
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[Under construction, feel free to leave post feedback]
FAQs/basic overview:
Will. This states who-gets-what when you die, names guardians, and specifies a trusted person to be in charge. A will (short for “last will and testament”) is a state-specific, legally binding document that says what happens to your money and property. Your will typically addresses the following issues:
Executor - ensures the instructions you left are followed appropriately.
Beneficiaries - lists who you want to receive your assets.
Guardians – designates care for your children or pets.
Investments/debt – lists how to distribute investments or pay for debts.
Living will. This is also called an advance healthcare directive. It states your end of life wishes for medical care that you do -- or don't -- want. This document goes by a few different names (advance healthcare directive, personal directive, advance directive, or advance decision), but no matter what you call it, it defines your wishes for end-of-life medical care. The living will frequently includes:
Whether or not to continue life support if you are legally brain dead, in an irreversible coma, or dying from terminal illness.
Medical procedures or treatments you do (or do not) want.
Pain management wishes.
Instructions for hospice care.
Power of attorney. This third document compliments the others in certain circumstances. Let’s imagine aren’t able to take care of things for yourself. POA designates one or more people who have the authority to make decisions for you. You can split up duties, such as having one person make medical decisions while another makes financial decisions. For example, you may want your nurse sister to make your medical decisions, and your accountant brother handling your financial ones. Here are example scenarios where a POA is vitally important:
You have had an accident and are unconscious.
You are suffering from a mental illness.
A parent is suffering from dementia or Alzheimer’s disease.
What’s the difference between a living will and a durable healthcare power of attorney? Both a living will and a durable healthcare power of attorney (POA) allow you to name someone you trust to make medical choices for you. A durable power of attorney for healthcare does not cover end-of life care. It names someone who can make all other health care decisions if you are unable to speak for yourself. This can happen during an illness or surgery.
For Washington state residents: https://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/issues/health/powers-of-attorney-health-care-directives
You may also want to make a letter of instruction, also known as a letter of intent (Investopedia (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/08/letter-of-instruction.asp)):
A good letter of instruction should contain the following information:
- A complete list of all assets, both liquid and illiquid
- The whereabouts of any and all tangible assets that are not readily accessible
- The names, passwords, PIN numbers and account numbers of all liquid assets, including bank, brokerage, retirement and investment accounts.
- The names and contact information of any bankers, brokers, attorneys or other professionals who handle your assets
- Informal information regarding the dispersion of assets, such as who would get a sentimental possession or heirloom (the will may state that these articles are to be distributed according to the letter)
- Preferred charities for donations, if they are expected instead of flowers
- Location of most recent copies of all financial and Social Security statements, tax returns, and legal documents (such as wills and trusts)
- List of all financial account beneficiaries and their contact information, if necessary
- The location of all titles and/or deeds for real estate property, rental property, oil and gas leases, etc.
- Your Social Security number and birth certificate
- Location (and keys to) all safe deposit boxes
- Any divorce and/or citizenship papers, or applications thereof
- Contact information of any debtors, such as mortgages, credit cards and car loans
- Contact information for any and all insurance coverage, especially life insurance.
- Care and placement of any pets
- Contact information for all retirement account or estate beneficiaries
Have The Conversation with your loved ones. https://theconversationproject.org/starter-kits/
Talking with your loved ones openly and honestly, before a medical crisis happens, gives everyone a shared understanding about what matters most to you at the end of life. You can use this Starter Kit whether you are getting ready to tell someone else what you want, or you want to help someone else get ready to share their wishes.
Here's an excellent post talking about things their heirs will need to know after the OP has passed away:
Our "Things You Need To Know" document for our heirs has the following topics in it (and of course they'll know where to find it):
Contacts: Business partners, people we routinely do business with: realtor, lawyer, accountants.
Things to do: Add a change of address so mail goes to their home, refresh it at the end of the next 2 years to get those once a year documents.
Where things likely are in the house: Documents, checkbooks, mortgage coupon payment book, gun safe key, keys to rental properties, etc.
Land: List of property and the URL for the registry of deeds to double-check the document is up to date. Associated payment schedules and bills for those properties.
Accounts Receivable: Any mortgage notes or loans that others owe us for.
Liabilities: Mortgage, property taxes, HELOC.
What do to with things they don't want: Suggestions for places to charitably donate the items to and local estate sale companies that do a good job.
Burial wishes: Keep it simple, keep it inexpensive, have a wake and invite our friends.
Family obligations on farmland ownership that's shared with my mom's side of the family: Advice on how to handle things and what we would recommend if other relatives want to sell.
Banks: Banks we do business with and why
Investment Accounts: Places that hold our stock/bond portfolios.
Insurance: Who we have insurance with.
Money and Investment Advice: Little snippets of wisdom that hopefully will help them avoid big mistakes. Plus an attempt to teach the right mindset. Things like if you want a luxury that will require an ongoing expense, set up an investment that will provide an income stream to pay for it.
Hope that helps!
Finding a lawyer - call a few to get an idea of what they would charge to draft a will, living will, and power of attorney for your situation. If you're in the US, avvo.com (https://www.avvo.com/) can be a good resource to find a few lawyers near you to call.
Free advanced directives worksheets by state, from the AARP. (https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/financial-legal/free-printable-advance-directives/?intcmp=AE-CAR-LEG-R2-C3-LL3)
Alzheimer's Disease
https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/legal-and-financial-planning-people-alzheimers
https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/advance-care-planning-healthcare-directives
https://www.cancer.org/treatment/finding-and-paying-for-treatment/understanding-financial-and-legal-matters/advance-directives/types-of-advance-health-care-directives.html
https://www.cancer.org/treatment/finding-and-paying-for-treatment/understanding-financial-and-legal-matters/advance-directives/types-of-advance-health-care-directives.html
Five wishes:
-My wish for the person I want to make care decisions for me when I can't
-My wish for the kind of medical treatment I want or don't want
-How comfortable I want to be
-How I want people to treat me
-What I want my loved ones to know
https://www.agingwithdignity.org/five-wishes
Sample: https://agingwithdignity.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/product-samples/fwsample.pdf?sfvrsn=2
What are good things for me to do in advance in case of emergency but not actual death?
Have copies of all your important documents (will, insurance information, photocopy of your passport, etc.) stored in a safe place other than your home. If your house burns down in the middle of the night you still want to have these things.
Have an In Case of Emergency (ICE) contact in your phone. (Helpful Link (https://www.wikihow.com/Add-ICE-to-Your-Cell-Phone))
If your phone has one of those little "emergency ID" lock screens, put your meds on there! Especially any heart meds, insulin, stuff like that is super important. If an accident happens, it's likely some care will be provided before the medical provider can get in touch with your medical decision maker/family.
Have a written list of accounts, get as many things on autopay as possible.
A quick word about emergency preparedness. Since you're going to all this trouble to have difficult conversations with your family members and drafting up documents, you don't want to lose it all in a house fire or flood. Plus there's a couple other things you can knock out at the same time that will make life a lot easier if an emergency happens later.
Have a BOB, or Bug Out Bag, ready to go. Your BOB should include a disaster supply kit, including a flashlight, batteries, cash, first aid supplies, medications, and copies of your critical information if you need to evacuate". The amount of cash should be based on the basic needs of your family, including food, gas, and other necessities. The critical information will be:
1. E-mail addresses and phone numbers for your household members and any family you may rely on in an emergency. Don't assume you'll have access to your phone's contact list.
2. Identification - driver's license, passport, birth certificate, social security card
3. Professional Licenses - the credential itself, and all training classes needed to certify for credential
4. Personal Property - title to car, deeds to home, boat, etc
5. Tax history
6. Will, Power of Attorney, Advanced Heath care Directive
More about Bug Out Bags (http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/p/0007.html).
For electronic copies of important documents, store them in a password-protected format on a removable flash or external hard drive in your fireproof and waterproof box or safe, or consider using a secure offsite storage service. Visit www.us-cert.gov/ncas/tips/st04-019 to learn how to use electronic encryption to protect sensitive information.
Pre-Having Your Shit Together, you wake up in the night to the sound of your smoke alarms. The house is on fire! You roll out of bed naked, stumble about trying to put some clothes on and eventually manage to be 'decent'. You dash out into the living room, which is now filled with smoke, and you start searching for Whiskers the Cat, who you finally find under the sofa. He doesn't come when you call, and you can't quite reach him so you spend some time working on that. When you do manage to fish the ungrateful creature out from under there, you stand up with him to try to get out of the house - but it's too late - you are overcome by smoke and you die on the floor.
Post-Having Your Shit Together, you wake up in the night to the sound of your smoke alarms. The house is on fire! You roll out of bed naked, snatch your BOB and your wife's BOB out from under the bed, grab your laptop bag, and dash out of the door. Your wife, who grabbed Junior out of his crib in your bedroom is right behind you. She's naked too. (May as well get as much play out of that as I can...) The whole family rendezvous at the mailbox, where you all unzip your BOBs and pull on some clothes. Whoever is dressed first dials 911 on the cell phone. If the weather is warm, you can call before you get dressed. Health and Wealth protected.
AHH! This is too much! I'm overwhelmed! That's okay, this is a lot of stuff and it's important, emotionally-weighty stuff. Break it out into smaller chunks and do one thing a week, or one thing a month. Getting a little bit done is better than getting nothing done because you're overwhelmed.
Sources:
Ready.gov (https://www.ready.gov/hurricanes)
Federal Emergency Management Agency (https://www.fema.gov/media-library/assets/documents/94715)
Get Your Shit Together (https://www.gyst.com/articles/estate-planning-guide-to-wills-and-living-wills-and-advance-directives)
Investopedia (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/08/letter-of-instruction.asp)
avvo.com (https://www.avvo.com/)
AARP (https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/financial-legal/free-printable-advance-directives/?intcmp=AE-CAR-LEG-R2-C3-LL3)
Listening To Katrina (http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/p/0007.html)
FEMA's guide to safeguarding critical documents (https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data/1501683551530-cef254f971fed5df499b719d25325d07/Protect_Critical_Docs_and_Valuables_508.pdf)
Consumer Reports, "What To Do When A Loved One Dies" (https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/10/what-to-do-when-a-loved-one-dies/index.htm)
NOLO: How an Estate Is Settled If There's No Will: Intestate Succession (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-estate-settled-if-theres-32442.html)
IRS: Deceased Taxpayers Filing the Final Returns of a Deceased Taxpayer (https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/deceased-taxpayers-filing-the-final-returns-of-a-deceased-taxpayer)
AARP When A Loved One Dies Checklist (https://www.aarp.org/home-family/friends-family/info-06-2012/when-loved-one-dies-checklist.html)
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Reserved for resources
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To get the ball rolling - after years of putting it off, then getting wills drafted but not executed, we finally got our wills created and executed. I still want to get more life insurance on Mr. Meer and make sure all of my financial accounts have the right beneficiaries listed. I'd also like to create a "hit by a bus" file to keep in our safe that has a list of where all we have accounts and possibly usernames/passwords as well. My child has special needs so this would also include some of his medical information so his guardians aren't starting from scratch.
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Yes, I need to do this! My living will is woefully out of date- lists an ex boyfriend =o And I've been married for years now! Plus, now that we have a mortgage, I would like to get life insurance sorted. We don't have kids, so the will is less of an issue, but there's still shit I need to sort!
Goals:
-Get a written list of all my accounts, (CC, bank, the two tiny freebie life insurance policies paid for by our credit union, investments, etc) so if anything happens to us it's all in one place
-Make sure beneficiaries on all my accounts are correct and updated
-Sort life insurance (gulp)
-Do living wills for husband and myself. (this should be easier, since we've already done the tough conversations part of it)
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shoot, i really need to do this.
How much should I budget for a real attorney (not legalzoom)?
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Hey, thanks for the reminder! I have a folder on my computer called “It’s Time to Adult” where I have drafted a POA, Will, Pour-Over Trust, and Living Will, but haven’t actually executed everything in it yet. So I need to get on that.
Me: 27F Attorney.
Status: Single.
Net Worth: -3k.
• Have a POA drafted but not executed.
• Have a will drafted but not executed.
• Have a pour over trust drafted but not executed.
• Have a living will/advanced directive drafted but not executed.
• Term life insurance needs additional blood work before they will finalize my policy.
I guess I should keep all of my financial accounts, passwords, medical cards and information, and other important info somewhere but I’m not sure where at this point. May be time to invest in a safe deposit box. I’m sure one of my banks will give a discounted or free SDP based on my assets. But I’m also thinking I should just make a binder and keep it at home just in case.
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I'm in.
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shoot, i really need to do this.
How much should I budget for a real attorney (not legalzoom)?
Depends on your area. Call a few law firms in your area (check avvo.com first for reviews if in the US) and get a general idea of what they would charge.
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shoot, i really need to do this.
How much should I budget for a real attorney (not legalzoom)?
Depends on your area. Call a few law firms in your area (check avvo.com first for reviews if in the US) and get a general idea of what they would charge.
Can I just ask for the "adult" package?
It is just will (living and dead) and POA?
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Yeah I'm jumping in. DH and I are childless (but plans in the next 2 years or so), have retirement, taxable, and bank accounts, I have a small life insurance through work, and we have no health paperwork set up. This is our (my) winter project. Not looking forward to it.
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shoot, i really need to do this.
How much should I budget for a real attorney (not legalzoom)?
Depends on your area. Call a few law firms in your area (check avvo.com first for reviews if in the US) and get a general idea of what they would charge.
Can I just ask for the "adult" package?
It is just will (living and dead) and POA?
It honestly depends on what your needs are, and any attorney worth their salt will review your personal situation and determine what you actually need. If the attorney has good reviews (I like avvo because attorneys and clients are both able to review so you get a better picture of the attorney’s full reputation) then they probably won’t take you for a ride and offer a bunch of stuff you don’t need. Just tell them you need assistance with estate planning and getting your affairs in order and they will be able to take a look. Generally people just need POA, advanced directives/living will, and a will. But if you have kids, or pets, or specific needs, that may change. You may want a different financial POA than medical if one of your family members is good with money, but you’re afraid they won’t pull the plug or authorize the care you want. An estate planning attorney will have a lot of insight into common issues and what specific tools would help you meet your goals. And a good estate attorney’s advice is worth their weight in gold. Shop around, and if the first attorney you talk to doesn’t sound engaged or personally interested in your goals, move on to the next one. We are public servants (or should be, anyway) so if you don’t feel like they WANT to work for YOU move on to the next one.
PM me if you have any other questions and I’ll do what I can to help.
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This was my goal for the new year and I did it!
: )
I needed a Will, Trust, Power of attorney for medical decisions and financial stuff. I paid $2k for an estate lawyer to do it all properly. I'm a single mom and what I cared about the most was the trust for my assets to go to the kids when and how I them to, and selecting who will have the authority for medical decisions if I am incapacitated.
adjusted my life insurance situation
double checked beneficiaries everywhere
wrote a long letter of instructions for my family members regarding everything they'd need to know if I was incapacitated or passed away
backed up my computer, photo library, the letter mentioned above, etc . 1 copy stored in my house and 1 copy at a separate safe location.
The lawyer was recomended by a friend-of-a-friend and verified by yelp reviews. I really liked him at the free consult and felt the price was fair. Even though $2k is a lot, I felt confident he would do it right and the service was worth it to me.
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Oh man, adulting. I have my 401k beneficiaries set up, and the majority of my cash assets are in a joint account with Husband, so there was only <$10k that would be problematic if I shuffle loose this mortal coil.
But.
We are building a house, which will increase the monthly expenses by enough that Husband would be hard-pressed to pay it on his own. And we are (I am) gestating a fetus that will require insurance and daycare and other costly things. So I need to get life insurance on at least myself to make sure Husband and Tiny Sparkles will be okay for a while. And then figure out who I'd dump the unborn kid on if we both croak. And then all those other things you guys are talking about. *sigh*
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Posted details in "Preparing for Senility?" thread. Currently shopping for long term care insurance, though that's not a good deal for the average Mustache.
Thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/preparing-for-senility/
Me:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/preparing-for-senility/msg1764518/#msg1764518
Why LTCI (sorry about length):
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/preparing-for-senility/msg1767512/#msg1767512
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Posted details in "Preparing for Senility?" thread. Currently shopping for long term care insurance, though that's not a good deal for the average Mustache.
Thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/preparing-for-senility/
Me:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/preparing-for-senility/msg1764518/#msg1764518
Why LTCI (sorry about length):
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/preparing-for-senility/msg1767512/#msg1767512
That's a great thread and I like the Why LTCI post in particular. Thanks for point it out, I probably would have missed it otherwise.
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PTF. Need trust & any assistance is helpful.
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Yes, I need to do this! My living will is woefully out of date- lists an ex boyfriend =o And I've been married for years now! Plus, now that we have a mortgage, I would like to get life insurance sorted. We don't have kids, so the will is less of an issue, but there's still shit I need to sort!
Goals:
-Get a written list of all my accounts, (CC, bank, the two tiny freebie life insurance policies paid for by our credit union, investments, etc) so if anything happens to us it's all in one place
-Make sure beneficiaries on all my accounts are correct and updated
-Sort life insurance (gulp)
-Do living wills for husband and myself. (this should be easier, since we've already done the tough conversations part of it)
Hey, heath care person! Can you help me understand the scerarios in which an Advanced Directives would kick in. Here's what I understand:
1. Brain Dead = the brainstem is farked, unplugging is a no-brainer (snirt!) and death is guaranteed because even the basic reflex for breath and heart beat is gone.
2. Persistent Vegetative State = Coma = brain is profoundly damaged, but brainstem will keep the heart and lungs going. The person might also laugh, grimace, or cry, but all higher cognitive functions have stopped. People who are going to wake generally do so within 4 weeks, however extreme outliers have been known to exist. People can exist in this state for years, but generally die from pneumonia and get terrible pressure sores.For PVS there's nothing to 'unplug,' because basic reflexes remain intact. The Advanced Directive will need to specify no hydration or nutrition???
3. End-stage terminal illness. Death is going to occur, so heroic measures are kind of dumb, but palliative care can be requested. Advanced Directive will need to specify no life saving treatment (dyalysis), and have do not resuscitate orders, but request comfort care?
4. Dementia. Sucks. Euthanasia is illegal, so plan one final international trip.
Am I missing any scenarios? Obviously I'm not looking for incredible specifics, just situations in which my body might keep going when my mind is gone.
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Ok, I'm jumping in here, because it's egregious that we haven't done this. I had a will written up when I had just gone through my divorce and had one child. I have since remarried, had two more children, and my husband and I have substantial enough assets that we really need to get this done. Here are my goals:
-determine if we need a trust
-get trust (if deemed necessary) in place
-sort out will with guardianship clearly stated
-medical stuff (advanced directive? I know nothing on all this)
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Sigh. Yeah, we need to do this, too. What are everyone's thoughts on just using an online template and having it notarized?
-will
-trust
-life insurance for spouse
-learn more about disability insurance
-advanced directives... does this include burial/cremation preferences?
- letter with instructions/passwords, etc.
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Posting to follow, guilty as well, we don't have most of this in place.
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Yes, I need to do this! My living will is woefully out of date- lists an ex boyfriend =o And I've been married for years now! Plus, now that we have a mortgage, I would like to get life insurance sorted. We don't have kids, so the will is less of an issue, but there's still shit I need to sort!
Goals:
-Get a written list of all my accounts, (CC, bank, the two tiny freebie life insurance policies paid for by our credit union, investments, etc) so if anything happens to us it's all in one place
-Make sure beneficiaries on all my accounts are correct and updated
-Sort life insurance (gulp)
-Do living wills for husband and myself. (this should be easier, since we've already done the tough conversations part of it)
Hey, heath care person! Can you help me understand the scerarios in which an Advanced Directives would kick in. Here's what I understand:
1. Brain Dead = the brainstem is farked, unplugging is a no-brainer (snirt!) and death is guaranteed because even the basic reflex for breath and heart beat is gone.
2. Persistent Vegetative State = Coma = brain is profoundly damaged, but brainstem will keep the heart and lungs going. The person might also laugh, grimace, or cry, but all higher cognitive functions have stopped. People who are going to wake generally do so within 4 weeks, however extreme outliers have been known to exist. People can exist in this state for years, but generally die from pneumonia and get terrible pressure sores.For PVS there's nothing to 'unplug,' because basic reflexes remain intact. The Advanced Directive will need to specify no hydration or nutrition???
3. End-stage terminal illness. Death is going to occur, so heroic measures are kind of dumb, but palliative care can be requested. Advanced Directive will need to specify no life saving treatment (dyalysis), and have do not resuscitate orders, but request comfort care?
4. Dementia. Sucks. Euthanasia is illegal, so plan one final international trip.
Am I missing any scenarios? Obviously I'm not looking for incredible specifics, just situations in which my body might keep going when my mind is gone.
I will start with links. It sounds like you pretty much have the gist of it though.
https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/advance-care-planning-healthcare-directives (https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/advance-care-planning-healthcare-directives)
https://www.cancer.org/treatment/finding-and-paying-for-treatment/understanding-financial-and-legal-matters/advance-directives/types-of-advance-health-care-directives.html (https://www.cancer.org/treatment/finding-and-paying-for-treatment/understanding-financial-and-legal-matters/advance-directives/types-of-advance-health-care-directives.html)
Important quote, IMO: "There’s no general agreement for recognizing living wills from other states. If you spend time in more than one state, you should create separate living wills, or make sure that your living will meets the requirements of all the states you spend a lot of time in."
and
"A living will is much more limited than a health care power of attorney. Both apply only when you are unable to speak for yourself, but the living will takes effect only if you are terminally ill or permanently unconscious. The living will gives written instructions about certain things that might happen. But it can’t possibly cover every health care situation that could come up, and it may not cover your situation when you need it. With most types of living wills, you can’t choose an agent or proxy to make decisions for you, and no one is appointed to be sure that your wishes are carried out. That’s why you need a health care power of attorney also (discussed later)."
To be honest? Based on my (limited) time in the ICU, from what I've seen, is that it is WAY more important to get on the same page as your spouse (or whoever you set up as your medical power of attorney). Situations ARE very distinct, hardly anything is 'textbook'. So it's important that your POA has a sense of what you would want, so that they can make a 'good guess' when you *can't* be specific. If that makes sense. Not that it isn't still a very good idea to have your advance directive (AD) in place, but it doesn't cover all situations for sure.
I've also read recommendations to have a little AD printed out in your wallet. I would add to this: for the love of all that is holy, if you take anything other than like... multivitamins... have a med list on you all the time!
So that's a good one to add: if your phone has one of those little "emergency ID" lock screens, put your meds on there! Especially any heart meds, insulin, stuff like that is super important. If an accident happens, it's likely some care will be provided before the medical provider can get in touch with your medical decision maker/family.
Ummm I might have gotten off topic. Still, hope some of that helps?
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I have one of the nolo willmaker sets 95% done. I got hung up on some small details and never finished it. I plan to get on it during my next stretch off work.
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As a CFP(r), I want to urge people to use a trusts and estates attorney rather than an online will service. T&E attorneys know the right questions to ask, and you don’t. Second, there are lots of small fiddly things about estate planning documents, and they vary considerably from state to state. This is NOT a place to cut corners.
As far as living wills or “five wishes” or POLST forms go, ask your MD. They probably have a form they are comfortable with. Fill it out, keep a copy with them, and make sure you have a copy in your bug-out bag.
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Yes, I need to do this! My living will is woefully out of date- lists an ex boyfriend =o And I've been married for years now! Plus, now that we have a mortgage, I would like to get life insurance sorted. We don't have kids, so the will is less of an issue, but there's still shit I need to sort!
Goals:
-Get a written list of all my accounts, (CC, bank, the two tiny freebie life insurance policies paid for by our credit union, investments, etc) so if anything happens to us it's all in one place
-Make sure beneficiaries on all my accounts are correct and updated
-Sort life insurance (gulp)
-Do living wills for husband and myself. (this should be easier, since we've already done the tough conversations part of it)
Hey, heath care person! Can you help me understand the scerarios in which an Advanced Directives would kick in. Here's what I understand:
1. Brain Dead = the brainstem is farked, unplugging is a no-brainer (snirt!) and death is guaranteed because even the basic reflex for breath and heart beat is gone.
2. Persistent Vegetative State = Coma = brain is profoundly damaged, but brainstem will keep the heart and lungs going. The person might also laugh, grimace, or cry, but all higher cognitive functions have stopped. People who are going to wake generally do so within 4 weeks, however extreme outliers have been known to exist. People can exist in this state for years, but generally die from pneumonia and get terrible pressure sores.For PVS there's nothing to 'unplug,' because basic reflexes remain intact. The Advanced Directive will need to specify no hydration or nutrition???
3. End-stage terminal illness. Death is going to occur, so heroic measures are kind of dumb, but palliative care can be requested. Advanced Directive will need to specify no life saving treatment (dyalysis), and have do not resuscitate orders, but request comfort care?
4. Dementia. Sucks. Euthanasia is illegal, so plan one final international trip.
Am I missing any scenarios? Obviously I'm not looking for incredible specifics, just situations in which my body might keep going when my mind is gone.
Not Bracken_Joy, but...If you’re female, all of those items while pregnant, or whether pregnancy changes your directives.
Resuscitation. Mechanical ventilation. Tube feeding. Dialysis. Antibiotics/antiviral and whether you want aggressive infection treatment at end of life. Palliative care. Organ donation. Donating your body.
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I'm so guilty here. I tell my clients to do this, made up an extensive list for the instructions part, get other people to fill it out including my husband. But I haven't finished my portion yet.
POAs are good. Will is on the backburner as most of our assets transfer directly and neither of us care if we're both dead. Probably leaving a mess for someone though. I know we should get it done.
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PTF so I don't lose this (will come back later, read and post).
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The reason we don't have a will yet, is because you need witnesses to sign it. And I usually don't want to ask visiting friends to sign it. But maybe it is a triviality and I should just do it.
We had to get ours notarized and signed by two witnesses. Luckily I work with several notaries so one day my husband met up with me at the end of the work day and a notary-friend grabbed two people from her department to be witnesses and we had a paperwork signing party. They didn't mind and were happy to help. They didn't read it in depth or anything, they were more just making sure that I was the one that had just scribbled in the signature spot rather than, I dunno, some stranger off the street trying to pretend to be me.
Which is a long-winded way of saying, if you're worried about it being awkward, it probably won't be. If you're worried about them being nosy and reading your will (the same way people start thumbing through all your pictures on your phone when you just wanted them to look at the one), maybe get someone else to sign instead or try to set it up so they just have to sign quickly and then you move into another room for snacks or whatever.
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Sigh. Yeah, we need to do this, too. What are everyone's thoughts on just using an online template and having it notarized?
Ideally you should go through an estate attorney and talk to them about your specific situation. You may mention one key word you don't think is important but they'll know they should ask follow up questions about xyz because it could impact how you want things arranged or what you need to do per your state's laws.
As a sort of compromise, I used a service called Legal Shield which was offered through my work. Membership for basic will services is $15/month I believe and they'll send you a booklet to fill out. Then you mail off the booklet to the law firm you've been assigned to and they'll send you back the documents with an instructional page about how to get them executed correctly per your state's laws. I had an exceptional situation and noted it in the booklet basically asking them to call me and I think I had a call center rep call me first and I arranged to speak with a lawyer about the issue later that day. I was able to discuss my situation with an actual lawyer and in my case I did not need further paperwork but if I had it would have been outside of what the membership covered. The Legal Shield service would have been happy to recommend someone for the additional stuff, of course, but at that point I would have strongly preferred talking to someone face to face and their recommendations would have been in a major city several hours away from me. If I hadn't made that note in my booklet I would never have talked to an actual human about our situation, which is not a good thing when you're dealing with something as serious as this.
Even just having the booklet prompted some unexpected questions between myself and my husband, and we're generally on the same page when it comes to our ideas of acceptable end of life care and burial practices.
The reason we don't have a will yet, is because you need witnesses to sign it. And I usually don't want to ask visiting friends to sign it. But maybe it is a triviality and I should just do it.
We had to get ours notarized and signed by two witnesses. Luckily I work with several notaries so one day my husband met up with me at the end of the work day and a notary-friend grabbed two people from her department to be witnesses and we had a paperwork signing party. They didn't mind and were happy to help. They didn't read it in depth or anything, they were more just making sure that I was the one that had just scribbled in the signature spot rather than, I dunno, some stranger off the street trying to pretend to be me.
Which is a long-winded way of saying, if you're worried about it being awkward, it probably won't be. If you're worried about them being nosy and reading your will (the same way people start thumbing through all your pictures on your phone when you just wanted them to look at the one), maybe get someone else to sign instead or try to set it up so they just have to sign quickly and then you move into another room for snacks or whatever.
I am not worried about a friend reading the contents, I am just a bit embarrassed to bother them with it. Maybe I should just prepare a will before Christmas, as we will travel to meet the family at home. I think we need to sign in the presence of the witnesses.
Don't feel embarrassed! You're not bothering them with some unimportant task, you're asking them to do you the honor of helping make sure your last wishes are taken care of. I'd be careful about doing it at Christmas though, it's possible that people who are related to you by blood or marriage are not eligible to be witnesses.
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As a CFP(r), I want to urge people to use a trusts and estates attorney rather than an online will service. T&E attorneys know the right questions to ask, and you don’t. Second, there are lots of small fiddly things about estate planning documents, and they vary considerably from state to state. This is NOT a place to cut corners.
As far as living wills or “five wishes” or POLST forms go, ask your MD. They probably have a form they are comfortable with. Fill it out, keep a copy with them, and make sure you have a copy in your bug-out bag.
I love you!
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Filled out my forms today.
My Healthcare Directive says comfort care only (if my MD believes me to be terminal, of course). I promise to do it the right way with a lawyer if Stingray passes, or I expect to die soon, or I am 70 or over. Not letting perfect be the enemy of good.
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PTF, because as parents this is something we need to do. However, HusbandX signed up for the life insurance offered through his company so we're good to go on that. (If I died he'd be pretty well set in terms of income. The opposite would not be true currently, and probably not until BabyX, still in utero, is in or beyond preschool.)
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I went to HR and got the card today to call about getting supplemental life insurance. (The company automatically insures me for 2x my annual salary, but I'm not sure how long that would really take care of Husband and Tiny Sparkles without me. ) I didn't actually call yet, but...baby steps.
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As a CFP(r), I want to urge people to use a trusts and estates attorney rather than an online will service. T&E attorneys know the right questions to ask, and you don’t. Second, there are lots of small fiddly things about estate planning documents, and they vary considerably from state to state. This is NOT a place to cut corners.
As far as living wills or “five wishes” or POLST forms go, ask your MD. They probably have a form they are comfortable with. Fill it out, keep a copy with them, and make sure you have a copy in your bug-out bag.
I love you!
It’s mutual!
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Still reading through and catching up but wanted to reply to this when I read it.
To be honest? Based on my (limited) time in the ICU, from what I've seen, is that it is WAY more important to get on the same page as your spouse (or whoever you set up as your medical power of attorney). Situations ARE very distinct, hardly anything is 'textbook'. So it's important that your POA has a sense of what you would want, so that they can make a 'good guess' when you *can't* be specific. If that makes sense. Not that it isn't still a very good idea to have your advance directive (AD) in place, but it doesn't cover all situations for sure.
I've also read recommendations to have a little AD printed out in your wallet. I would add to this: for the love of all that is holy, if you take anything other than like... multivitamins... have a med list on you all the time!
So that's a good one to add: if your phone has one of those little "emergency ID" lock screens, put your meds on there! Especially any heart meds, insulin, stuff like that is super important. If an accident happens, it's likely some care will be provided before the medical provider can get in touch with your medical decision maker/family.
Not a medical person but recently went through cancer treatment (surgery, chemo, radiation) and had a young friend die from cancer a year ago (young = early 30s).
I agree completely with BJ. I haven't got round to doing an advanced care directive yet but I have had MANY conversations with DH about my wishes if the worst were to happen.
A really important part of planning for this is getting comfortable with talking with your loved ones about the possibility of you or your loved one getting horribly sick or dying or whatever. It's unfun but necessary. DH used to turn pale (literally) if I even broached the subject of getting a will because he couldn't cope with thinking about me dying. But, I've perservered and he's now fine with fully frank and open conversations about end of life, dying and so on. I'm comfortable he knows that if I'm dying from cancer or have a severe brain injury, I do not want any heroics. Just let me go.
And +1 to keeping an up to date list of meds and critical medical conditions in your phone (and send a copy to your loved one for them to save into notes or something on their phone - DH has read out my meds more than once to emergency docs when I've been too sick to give a full medical history myself).
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PTF. We recently signed up for legal assistance through work and 2018 will be the year we sort it all out. We don't have a house or any real estate but have only liquid assets. Would a will be needed or can I just make my husband (and then my mom) the beneficiary so they get the money after I'm gone?
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DH and I got our wills and POA done a couple of years ago. I got a recommendation for a good solicitor from another MMMer. She was excellent and I'm glad we went with her. Leaving everything to each other was the easy bit. Working out what we wanted to do if both of us die was a bit trickier - we knew what we wanted but didn't know how to write it up in a watertight way. I think it's cheap not frugal to buy a will kit instead of going to a good solicitor.
My gauntlet will have to be quite modest because I don't have many spoons at the moment:
- set up a bug out bag before the bushfire season fully hits - aim for end of November
- finalise our bushfire plan (I've downloaded the local app for fire plans and the app for showing nearby fires on my phone but haven't actually, you know, filled out the plan) - aim for end of November
- change my name on the mortgage and house title to my new name (I changed my name 4 years ago) - aim for end of year
- once I've changed the name on the house title, change my name on the utility bills (electricity, gas and water/sewage) - end of January
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PTF...
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I called the insurance company this morning. Waited on hold 10 minutes, gave up. Called back during lunch, gave them a call back number to return my call when they get a chance....that was an hour and a half ago. Not sure they want my business.
I'm figuring I need term life insurance, because the main concern is ensuring that Husband can afford the mortgage, insurance, and child care for Tiny Sparkles (and potential sibling) if I die unexpectedly in the next few years. My first thought is that 10 year term is probably fine, because we'll have a bigger stache and the kid(s) will only need before/afterschool care rather than full day. But maybe I should do 20 year, because by then they will both be out of the house? (Tiny Sparkles and imaginary second child)
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Jessa, you can also stagger them. Get a 10 and 20 year policy, each for half the amount you really want. That way in years 1-10 you're covered for the full amount you want now and then in years 11-20 you have some insurance but not too much.
When I got quotes, it was for a whole array of term policy values and timeframes, and I from there I put together exactly the package I wanted and was the best value.
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Jessa, you can also stagger them. Get a 10 and 20 year policy, each for half the amount you really want. That way in years 1-10 you're covered for the full amount you want now and then in years 11-20 you have some insurance but not too much.
When I got quotes, it was for a whole array of term policy values and timeframes, and I from there I put together exactly the package I wanted and was the best value.
Oooh, good call! Thanks!
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Spouse and I have done almost none of this stuff. We had the living will forms from our former MD and never filled them out. Now we have a new MD and he never mentions it.
I need to ask my sister and/or mom for a lawyer referral. Funnily enough, I used to work in the legal field, but I don't know anyone in it anymore who might do me a favor and cut me a break on price!
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I made an appointment with JAG for the 27th. And I've filled out all the paperwork for Last Will & Testament, Living Will, and Springing POA for both general and heath care.
I check marked being a organ donor, but explicitly stated in capital letters than I REALLY DON'T WANT MY FACE PEELED OFF AND PUT ON SOMEONE ELSE. Skin for grafting is cool, but for gawdsakes don't peel my face off. kthxbye.
Progress!
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Ashamed to admit we have three kids 7,10,11 and no will in place at all.
Would it be okay to use something like legal zoom as a stopgap until we could afford a proper attorney? Our situation is not complex, not sure what the cost difference is. (Obviously this varies by law firm and market.)
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I am so embarrassed. No wills in place. Net worth close to $500K We do have some small life insurance policies, in the event of <gulp> death.
Talking about death is very difficult for me. So scary.
BTW, no kids in the house, so we have that going for us.
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Talking about death is very difficult for me. So scary.
What's so scary about death?
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Talking about death is very difficult for me. So scary.
What's so scary about death?
...end game. I don't like thinking about the end of the game.
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Talking about death is very difficult for me. So scary.
What's so scary about death?
...end game. I don't like thinking about the end of the game.
I remember when I was 12 years old or so that my father told me he wanted to be cremated after his death. I was very upset to hear that, obvious that was for thinking about his death. But if it matters for yourself what is being done with you after death, then it is good to think about it now.
I have chosen to be a donor of body parts, so I know I will be "used" up before my funeral. DH knows about it and is also a donor. We both haven't written down what is to be done with us after that, funeral/cremation. I want to be cremated and strewn out in some pretty place.
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Talking about death is very difficult for me. So scary.
What's so scary about death?
...end game. I don't like thinking about the end of the game.
I remember when I was 12 years old or so that my father told me he wanted to be cremated after his death. I was very upset to hear that, obvious that was for thinking about his death. But if it matters for yourself what is being done with you after death, then it is good to think about it now.
I have chosen to be a donor of body parts, so I know I will be "used" up before my funeral. DH knows about it and is also a donor. We both haven't written down what is to be done with us after that, funeral/cremation. I want to be cremated and strewn out in some pretty place.
I'm quite comfortable talking about death and dying with DH but only because it's a bit abstract. When I got told earlier this year I have a one in five chance of my cancer returning and killing me, I freaked out for months and didn't cope.
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...end game. I don't like thinking about the end of the game.
Fair enough. To me it's just the beginning. This is just the pre-game warmup. I'm looking forward to it.
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Ashamed to admit we have three kids 7,10,11 and no will in place at all.
Would it be okay to use something like legal zoom as a stopgap until we could afford a proper attorney? Our situation is not complex, not sure what the cost difference is. (Obviously this varies by law firm and market.)
Same situation. Same question.
Our situation is simple, been married since our teen years, no messy family situations. I've figured the default way things get distributed after death will work for us.
Do we need a trust? I've been letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. We've also always had a better use for the unknown thousands of dollars it seems will be necessary to do things perfectly.
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Somedaystache, what is the plan for the kids if you both die? Is it just up to the state/your family to figure out? That's always what I think of as the main point of a will.
And growing up in a large family business, talking about estate planning has been regular. Healthcare directives and the like, nope nope nope, but more like "if I get run over by a piece of equipment tomorrow, I know my family and the business will survive me". Because when taking on this size of business, if the owner/operator dies without life insurance and a plan for how things will proceed, well it's likely the business that has been in the family for generations will not survive, the spouse will be forced to sell assets that are difficult to sell in order to fund life, and the family may have to move. So it's considered responsible to discuss these things and get a plan in place. Unfortunately it usually takes professionals to get everything in a neat bow.
And then my mom's mom is in her 80's and has put together the photo displays for her and her husband's funerals so the kids don't have to do it, and so she approves of all photos that will be going up. She has openly discussed with her kids what they each want funeral-wise. So maybe my family is a little weird.
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And then my mom's mom is in her 80's and has put together the photo displays for her and her husband's funerals so the kids don't have to do it, and so she approves of all photos that will be going up. She has openly discussed with her kids what they each want funeral-wise. So maybe my family is a little weird.
At my wedding my mom specifically had the photographer do headshots of my mom and my dad with the intent that those would be the pictures used at the funeral. They were both dressed up and my mom had her hair and make up professionally done and a professional photographer was on site already so it made sense to add that in to the list of pictures we wanted.
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And then my mom's mom is in her 80's and has put together the photo displays for her and her husband's funerals so the kids don't have to do it, and so she approves of all photos that will be going up. She has openly discussed with her kids what they each want funeral-wise. So maybe my family is a little weird.
At my wedding my mom specifically had the photographer do headshots of my mom and my dad with the intent that those would be the pictures used at the funeral. They were both dressed up and my mom had her hair and make up professionally done and a professional photographer was on site already so it made sense to add that in to the list of pictures we wanted.
We used a picture of my dad from my wedding at his funeral when he unexpectedly died earlier this year. It was a great photo.
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We saw a lawyer some years ago for unrelated paperwork and the subject of wills came up. The lawyer said that because my husband was not a US citizen, I couldn't simply leave everything to him if I went first. We needed some special trust, some tax issues, etc. We never pursued it (and thus have no wills).
Does anyone know if there are special considerations for non-US-citizen spouses? He is a legal permanent resident, but does not plan to apply for citizenship.
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Married pushing mid-6 figures in net worth, no wills, no life insurance besides what I get for free at work (maybe 200k, don't remember exactly).
Rationale:
- we have plenty of taxable assets
- neither of us needs the other financially
- should I die while my wife is pregnant, she will receive close to 4k per month of Social Security death benefit until the child is an adult, which in combination with the other assets growing for 20 years, which will make her insta-FIRE.
- we have either joint accounts with rights of survivorship, or named as beneficiaries on retirement accounts. The intestate laws for the rest are fine.
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I am still attempting to get a hold of someone to get additional life insurance through work. They apparently do not answer phone calls, I had to register my email, so I know they got it, still no response though...
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So impressed at how solution-oriented this thread is - great work moving forwards, everyone!
For those still will-less, a free starting point is to update the beneficiary of all financial accounts. Where I have lived, in any case, naming the beneficiary is free. Also, in the states where I have lived (I think all states, just not a lawyer here), financial accounts such as mutual funds and most bank accounts pass outside of any will. They just go straight to the named beneficiary as soon as the account company recognizes the death certificate (which someone has to bring to them). So updating beneficiaries is necessary in any case - just to make sure they've been named. I believe you can name anyone you want as beneficiary; am guessing that includes foreign spouse. The account-holding company might know what's ok.
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Okay, I finally heard back from my employer's insurance company, they only provide whole life insurance. Any suggestions for good third party term life insurance companies?
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term4sale.com, or any other quote aggregator. Term life is a highly commoditized product.
Pick any provider with a reasonable financial rating.
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Got almost all of this together the weekend after husband's cousin died suddenly one day at work (nothing like a shock of that sort to bring it all home, and things would have been so much easier if he'd had the paperwork). But I need to do healthcare directive, as does husband. But I don't know for sure what I'd want.
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I just checked out the NOLO Planning Your Estate book from the library...again. Will have to try harder to push through the roadblocks and just get it done. Plus the one year subscription to Willmaker is almost over...
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My current employer offers as legal benefits as an option. I signed up for this, intending to do a will, etc after I bought a house.
Almost done. Just need to get with the attorney to finalize the documentation - sign, etc. Just in time too, because I'm going to be giving notice at my job in December. Monday.
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I contacted an agency about term life, and laddering the policies. So far, so good. I submitted my application, we'll see how it goes.
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My current employer offers as legal benefits as an option. I signed up for this, intending to do a will, etc after I bought a house.
Almost done. Just need to get with the attorney to finalize the documentation - sign, etc. Just in time too, because I'm going to be giving notice at my job in December. Monday.
Congrats, Sibley.
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PTF, and to find again.
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Posted details in "Preparing for Senility?" thread. Currently shopping for long term care insurance, though that's not a good deal for the average Mustache.
Thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/preparing-for-senility/
Me:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/preparing-for-senility/msg1764518/#msg1764518
Why LTCI (sorry about length):
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/preparing-for-senility/msg1767512/#msg1767512
Bought long term care insurance Monday... I think.
They have a many-pages-long application where you pay for a specific policy, then fill out numerous medical details... after which they evaluate you, and if you'll be profitable, they issue the policy; if not, they reject you. How long does the acceptance/rejection take? "Weeks", says the representative (sales agent).
In any case, family relations at Thanksgiving were improved by passing relevant copies to Sis and her husband. Yes, rollicking times in the Bicycle family!
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In any case, family relations at Thanksgiving were improved by passing relevant copies to Sis and her husband. Yes, rollicking times in the Bicycle family!
Glad to hear it!
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53,49 fire'd 4 kids nothing in place. Following to get this all out of my head thinking about it and getting done early in 2018.
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We've completed reading Chapters 1-5 in the NOLO Planning Your Estate book. We get to skip a lot of sections because no kids.
Chapter 4 was the asset inventory. We had done most of it the last time but then got stuck and went no further.
Now on to the crux: wills, living trusts, charitable trusts. Chapters 7-9 & 20.
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I used legalzoom for a basic will last year. I'm single with no kids, so it's more for the hassle factor for my family that I'm bothering with a will at all. I also did the health care advanced directive doohickey, which is actually more important (for me).
The (stupid) problem I've got is that even though I have this will now, I haven't yet signed it. Why? Because, evidently, in my state, you have to get it witnessed and notarized. Simple? Not so, when the witnesses can't be any relative or anyone who is a beneficiary in the will. Banks won't witness anything anymore (hassle? liability?) so you have to find 2 people who aren't in your will and who have the time to take to go to the bank with you to witness your signature. My good friends (who I would otherwise ask for this) are in my will, so they aren't eligible.
I realize this is a stupid thing, but honestly, this simple roadblock has kept me from completing my will for almost 2 years now because I loathe to ask people for something like this.
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TempusFugit, have you thought about asking random strangers waiting in line at the bank to witness for you? My sister was asked to witness something for a random someone applying for relief post-Harvey and she did it.
Alternatively, is there a notary at your work? All of my employers have had someone on site. Coworkers will likely be fine serving as a witness.
One of my neighbors is also a notary - do you have a neighborhood Facebook page where you could ask if someone is a notary? Then you could ask another set of neighbors to witness.
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I made an appointment with JAG for the 27th. And I've filled out all the paperwork for Last Will & Testament, Living Will, and Springing POA for both general and heath care.
I check marked being a organ donor, but explicitly stated in capital letters than I REALLY DON'T WANT MY FACE PEELED OFF AND PUT ON SOMEONE ELSE. Skin for grafting is cool, but for gawdsakes don't peel my face off. kthxbye.
Progress!
Appointment was done. The JAG LT was impressed by my dedication to not having my face peeled off, but warned me to also notify my executor. So I sent a text to my wife to remind her, now and perpetuity, to never allow someone to peel my face off.
I have to go back on the 4th of Jan to have the will executed and filed.
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For Washington residents:
https://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/issues/health/powers-of-attorney-health-care-directives
I found this through the NW Justice Project, a publicly funded legal help clinic staffed by students and professors at UW Law. Presumably they knew what they were doing when they wrote the forms.
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Got the physical done this morning for my additional life insurance. The guy came out to my house and it took about a half hour. Blood and urine samples, height, weight, and he asked a bunch of health history questions. I know for my original life insurance policy the person came sometime in the afternoon so I had to fast all day, doing this first thing in the morning is much easier.
Still to do:
Additional life insurance for husband
Usernames/passwords list
Information write up about kiddo (what all doctors/therapists he sees)
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Got the physical done this morning for my additional life insurance. The guy came out to my house and it took about a half hour. Blood and urine samples, height, weight, and he asked a bunch of health history questions. I know for my original life insurance policy the person came sometime in the afternoon so I had to fast all day, doing this first thing in the morning is much easier.
I had mine Friday night! I did not have to fast, I'm not sure if it just wasn't required or if they waived it because I'm pregnant. 10 year lookback is HARD. "Have you ever had xxx?" Yes. "When?" Um...at least five years ago, but probably not more than 10? "Who diagnosed you?" Um the doctor I saw when I was 19? Yikes. But the examiner was pretty sure I'd be fine, because I'm young and healthy and all my vitals were good. Go me!
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Got the physical done this morning for my additional life insurance. The guy came out to my house and it took about a half hour. Blood and urine samples, height, weight, and he asked a bunch of health history questions. I know for my original life insurance policy the person came sometime in the afternoon so I had to fast all day, doing this first thing in the morning is much easier.
I had mine Friday night! I did not have to fast, I'm not sure if it just wasn't required or if they waived it because I'm pregnant. 10 year lookback is HARD. "Have you ever had xxx?" Yes. "When?" Um...at least five years ago, but probably not more than 10? "Who diagnosed you?" Um the doctor I saw when I was 19? Yikes. But the examiner was pretty sure I'd be fine, because I'm young and healthy and all my vitals were good. Go me!
I think so. I think I was asked if I was pregnant or diabetic or (third group I can't remember that would also have blood sugar issues).
Thankfully I haven't had a lot of interesting health stuff over the past decade (aside from IVF which they don't care about) but I definitely had to stop once or twice to do mental math.
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100% due to this thread we added the legal coverage benefit at my wife's work and are meeting with the estate planning lawyer on Wednesday to start getting all of these docs in place.
Thanks for the motivation to get this long overdue task out of the way!
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Great thread. I don't have any of these things at this time but I definitely need to do all of the above. Thanks for the inspiration and resources, will be checking back here once the wheels are set in motion. :)
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This is one of my goals for this winter.
I couldn't imagine leaving my husband to figure this out. I'm our family's CFO... he would be lost. And I can't imagine having to figure this out after (heaven forbid) losing my husband.
I'm not even sure where to start - I need to read and re-read the excellent introductory post!
My goal for December: figure out what the heck I need to do and have a punchlist in place by New Year's. Hold me to it! :-)
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I used legalzoom for a basic will last year. I'm single with no kids, so it's more for the hassle factor for my family that I'm bothering with a will at all. I also did the health care advanced directive doohickey, which is actually more important (for me).
The (stupid) problem I've got is that even though I have this will now, I haven't yet signed it. Why? Because, evidently, in my state, you have to get it witnessed and notarized. Simple? Not so, when the witnesses can't be any relative or anyone who is a beneficiary in the will. Banks won't witness anything anymore (hassle? liability?) so you have to find 2 people who aren't in your will and who have the time to take to go to the bank with you to witness your signature. My good friends (who I would otherwise ask for this) are in my will, so they aren't eligible.
I realize this is a stupid thing, but honestly, this simple roadblock has kept me from completing my will for almost 2 years now because I loathe to ask people for something like this.
Most UPS stores have a notary or two on staff and will take walk-ins (or at least tell you when a notary will be available if they're not there right at that minute). It's cheap.
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Today I wrote a draft will that DH and and I can use for each other in case one of us dies. I used an example I found on the internet, written by a lawyer. The person living longest shall inherit everything. After that person dies, the inheritance will be divided equally between both families. I added some comments about how the longest living person can donate the inheritance to charity, but not give the 2 families different percentages. Also a comment about what can be inherited by a new life partner. At least now we have something very concrete to discuss, with the correct conditions in it.
Next step 1: Discuss the draft will with my husband and agree on a final text together.
Next step 2: Inviting 2 witnesses to sign it together with us. The witnesses may not receive any inheritance. So friends may be the right choice.
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As a CFP(r), I want to urge people to use a trusts and estates attorney rather than an online will service. T&E attorneys know the right questions to ask, and you don’t. Second, there are lots of small fiddly things about estate planning documents, and they vary considerably from state to state. This is NOT a place to cut corners.
As far as living wills or “five wishes” or POLST forms go, ask your MD. They probably have a form they are comfortable with. Fill it out, keep a copy with them, and make sure you have a copy in your bug-out bag.
Thank you - 2018 will be my target date to get this done. I actually bought the online service, but decided not to use it. I'd rather have a professional who is familiar with the laws of our state, even if it is expensive.
While Hurricane Irma was barreling our way I managed to pull all our important papers into one file for our bug-out bag. Now I need to make copies and create copies to keep online and at a different location.
OP - thank you for bringing this up - I did a few things in 2017 like updating beneficiaries on all our assets and setting up all bank accounts so Mr. R. or my son is automatically the beneficiary even without having a will.
1. The house is the only problem which is one big motivator to get all estate related things finalized - I'd hate to be without a roof over my head if Mr. R. should die before me.
2. I'm wondering, is there a way to leave my car to my son while I don't have a will yet?
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I always thought once I did this I would do a Revocable Living Trust rather than a Will. Any savvy mustachians have strong thoughts either way?
These things are high on my 2018 to do list, especially since I have an 18 month old now.
1. Term Life insurance--enough to pay for death stuff. I think it's sort of silly to do much more if you have a decent net worth.
2. Get my mom to do a Living Revocable Trust. My dad died 2 years ago and she has a ton of property and no will or anything.
3. Medical/Death wishes in writing for my DH and I
I just have to suck it up and do #2 over the holidays while visiting Mom.
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1. The house is the only problem which is one big motivator to get all estate related things finalized - I'd hate to be without a roof over my head if Mr. R. should die before me.
2. I'm wondering, is there a way to leave my car to my son while I don't have a will yet?
About the car... Maybe you can transfer the car ownership to him now and get your son to sign a contract that you can use it and pay all the bills it generates?
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This is one of my goals for this winter.
I couldn't imagine leaving my husband to figure this out. I'm our family's CFO... he would be lost. And I can't imagine having to figure this out after (heaven forbid) losing my husband.
I'm not even sure where to start - I need to read and re-read the excellent introductory post!
My goal for December: figure out what the heck I need to do and have a punchlist in place by New Year's. Hold me to it! :-)
Ugh. This is hard!
Not so much the "tough conversations" part, but figuring out what we actually need. I think this is my to do list:
Contacts
- Family
- Friends
- Employers
- Doctors
- Insurance (Health, Home, Car, Life)
Family Finances & How Stuff Works
- Important Documents (e.g. locations)
- Accounts
- Bill Pay
- Insurance (Health, Home, Car, Life)
Digital Assets
- Accounts
- Credentials
- Documents
- Photographs
- Family Tree
Will
- Executor
- Beneficiaries
- Guardians
- Assets & how they are to be dispersed
- Revocable Living Trust?
Advance Directive
Power of Attorney
Also, https://www.gyst.com is super, super helpful for figuring this stuff out.
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This is all on my to do list! Does anyone have a Canadian equivalent to the NOLO estate planning book? Or can that book be used outside a US context? That sounds like a good method of working through it systematically.
I'd like to add a point to the subject of organ donation. My sister used to work in this field (transplanting pancreas cells to help people with uncontrollable type 1 diabetes). It took about 8 hours to prepare the cells to transplant, and often at the end they would find the quality or quantity wasn't high enough. If the donor had specified that their organs were only to be used for transplant, they had to throw the cells out. If the donor had said transplant or research, the cells could be given to researchers to use. It was often heartbreaking for her team to spend so long preparing a transplant, only to have to discard it. So please, if you are donating your organs, please consider donating them for research as well as transplant. And make sure your family is aware of your wishes!
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My current employer offers as legal benefits as an option. I signed up for this, intending to do a will, etc after I bought a house.
Almost done. Just need to get with the attorney to finalize the documentation - sign, etc. Just in time too, because I'm going to be giving notice at my job in December. Monday.
Congrats, Sibley.
Well, the attorney doesn't seem to want to wrap this up timely, despite my bugging him repeatedly. So, he can wait for me now. It won't be convenient for me to get to his office for several months (yes, months). We'll see how long it takes for him to get in touch with me. At which point, I will be happy to schedule a meeting, on my schedule.
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Thanks for the motivation.
I definitely need to do this. The hardest part is the guardianship for our two kids.
But we dont have most of the things on this list. Its daunting, but I will get started.
Update: Checked all our financial accounts and made sure that our beneficiaries were correct.
Called potential Guardian for our minor children for initial discussion. Ongoing discussions needed.
(I resolved not to die in the next ten years, minimum)
Have started Bug Out Bags, but more attention and supplies needed to those
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I often see mentioned--usually as a reason not to go with an online service--that laws vary from state to state. Does this mean that theoretically, we'd need to redo our wills every time we move interstate?
Also, if we are living overseas, which state's laws (or which state's lawyers) should be use? We are technically legal residents of NV (registered to vote, licenses, and would pay state income taxes there if there was one in NV). Realistically, it will be many years before we ever live there again, even once we are stateside, if we ever do, but we will maintain legal residency there (possible because husband is military).
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I often see mentioned--usually as a reason not to go with an online service--that laws vary from state to state. Does this mean that theoretically, we'd need to redo our wills every time we move interstate?
Also, if we are living overseas, which state's laws (or which state's lawyers) should be use? We are technically legal residents of NV (registered to vote, licenses, and would pay state income taxes there if there was one in NV). Realistically, it will be many years before we ever live there again, even once we are stateside, if we ever do, but we will maintain legal residency there (possible because husband is military).
For me, Dutch citizen living in Norway, it is the country of the person who died whose laws are followed. Also for parents who want to donate a sum to their children while being alive, it is the Dutch laws that apply for the taxfree amount when receiving from our parents. In Norway it is specified that a certain instance in the vicinity of where the dead person officially lived, that takes care of the will.
So I think it is your state where you officially live, that counts. If you stay somewhere as a tourist, it is probably your home country that counts.
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I just discovered this thread.
Last January we had an attorney specializing in wills and trusts complete both for us. Since then, we have been hacking away at getting all of our financial instruments set up. We are not good about this, and we do it in fits and starts.
We have our assets in far too many freakin’ accounts. One of them, a mere $11,000, cant be retitled without 30 pages of paperwork because it is still in my maiden name. Ugh, this shit drives me crazy. I would just cash it the hell out but that will affect our taxable income for ACA purposes, so ?i will let it lie another couple of years until we go on the government dole, Medicare.
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Also to add—what I would do differently knowing what I now know—
We divided our assets among ten individuals and charitable organizations. Now,
I would not do that, I would just choose a few charitable orgs and be done with it.
One of the annoying things is that a brokerage firm wanted social security numbers for individuals named in our will. Hell, no. I do not want these people to know they are named in our will because it is likely I will remove them in the next iteration, in ten years. The brokerage co ended up accepting the birth date in lieu of Social security numbers for these individuals.
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Good one. This is actually doubly important for my partner and I because we're not legally married (and probably won't be anytime soon), but we do have a kid. So we need to be extra diligent about filing paperwork with the courts to establish legal and physical joint custody. It appears that per our state laws, he is considered the legal father (we did file the extra paperwork to do that at the hospital), but as the (single) mother I'm presumed to have sole physical custody unless we file a custody arrangement with the courts that says otherwise. We live together so in practical terms it's a moot point but if I died in a car crash tomorrow our child would have no custodian. Yikes.
Calling the attorney tomorrow!
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This is such a good idea for a thread. DS is a year old and Mrs. FL and I have no excuse for not having our wills made out yet. Neither of us is planning to die any time soon, but if anything did happen to us, we need to make sure he'll be taken care of.
We really need to make an appointment with a lawyer and sort this out. Hopefully, this thread title popping up in my unread-posts list whenever I log on will be the prodding I need to get it done in 2018.
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A very miscellaneous one- I put together a list of all my past addresses, with years. At some point I'll also put together a list of all foreign travel with years. These get asked for random things- credit reports and applications, background checks (which I have to have redone for work every 2 years), and so on.
Also put lists of phone numbers in Husband and my wallets. In this era of cellphones, neither of us know any numbers by heart anymore. I routinely struggle to remember his! I did the lists business card size, and "laminated" them with clear tape.
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Got a medallion signature to fix someone else's mistake that was affecting us. Name spelled wrong on a brokerage account, mispelling courtesy a long-ago employer. Should be fixed soon now.
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This is on my list for 2018. I really want to get my end of life plans sorted out because people always get weird about those things when the time comes. I am ineligible to donate any organs so I want my body donated to science...and even though everyone knows that, I want it written out so there is no turning around. Aside from that, hubby doesn't have his name on the house at all so I need to make sure that gets taken care of ASAP.
Debating whether to get a small term life policy on him as well. I could manage financially without him but something to pay for his arrangements would be helpful (and I don't even know what type of arrangements he wants!)
Thanks for this thread...it should be a reminder for us to get on track.
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Great thread. Posting to find again and finish reading through. Took care of wills/POA a couple of years ago, but could work on emergency preparedness. Also need to have a discussion with my parents to see where their “shit” stands (I know it’s not in order and I’m hoping they’ll let me help). Will look at “the conversation” link for help with this.
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Posting this, partially to find later, partially to share with you all: https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data/1501683551530-cef254f971fed5df499b719d25325d07/Protect_Critical_Docs_and_Valuables_508.pdf (https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data/1501683551530-cef254f971fed5df499b719d25325d07/Protect_Critical_Docs_and_Valuables_508.pdf)
Fema's guidelines on safeguarding critical documents.
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Consider leaving your valuable documents at work. My building is open 24/7, earthquake-proof, filled with emergency food in the event of a natural disaster, with full time security and monitoring staff keeping an eye on things. My home has none of this.
If shit hits the fan, I'll be going there anyway.
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Thanks for the reminder printed off beneficiary forms for RRSP & TFSA, ready to send!
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Thanks for this! I drew up a will over a decade ago but it needs serious revision... and my husband doesn't have a will at all!
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we need to do this this year. It has to get done. Two parents, 40 with two kids, over a million dollars in assets and NO WILL.
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I finally did this! (At age 34). Will, durable medical PoA, springing financial PoA, and in the process of getting life insurance, just did the physical exam. I finally have someone in my life that I trust with these things, and as we've made the decision (for now at least) not to set marriage as an "end goal," we're setting each other up with as many legal protections and rights as possible outside of marriage.
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Yesterday I excecuted my will, and my deployment PoA, springing medical PoA, springing general PoA, and advanced directive.
I've also scanned 10 years of medical/dental records (that sucked). I need to scan all of 2017's records, plus my new passport and work credentials.
Progress!
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Good job SS!
Update to thread readers re current step - received word that my application for long term care insurance (TLDR family Alzheimer's) is on hold pending completion of some physical therapy. PT is in progress. Will update in probably 2-3 months.
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Posting to follow and to remind myself to get my shit together.
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Woo hoo! Life insurance application approved! I'll have one 10 year policy for $250k and one 20 year policy for $100k. Husband and Tiny Sparkles should be okay if i kick the bucket :)
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Good job SS!
Update to thread readers re current step - received word that my application for long term care insurance (TLDR family Alzheimer's) is on hold pending completion of some physical therapy. PT is in progress. Will update in probably 2-3 months.
Thank you, sir. Enjoy PT.
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We did our wills years ago and they need to be redone. Since the will were made my parents are gone and my Hubs parents are gone. We aren't close to 2 of his 3 siblings. One we get together maybe once a year for dinner. The other two are estranged from us. We have no close friends and no children. Hub has been wanting to redo the wills but I am at a loss on who to leave our money to if there is any left. Originally we left a token amount to Hubs siblings in the event the parents passed. So that is where it is now. Since we basically don't have much of a relationship with 2 out of the 3 that only leaves charity. We originally had a local animal welfare organization on the will. I still would like that. But I feel like something is missing! I keep postponing redoing the wills because I just don't know what to do! I have one close friend in another state and she could use money. She has had 3 failed marriages, bought a house and a car and had to go into foreclosure and had dumped inheritance money into the house. She had to declare bankruptcy. Whatever we decide to do I would like to put the money into a trust where the organization or person would get something like an annuity each year. Maybe something that they would only get the yearly interest and the principle would always be intact. Especially for an animal welfare organization. Anyone have any ideas here?
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We did our wills years ago and they need to be redone. Since the will were made my parents are gone and my Hubs parents are gone. We aren't close to 2 of his 3 siblings. One we get together maybe once a year for dinner. The other two are estranged from us. We have no close friends and no children. Hub has been wanting to redo the wills but I am at a loss on who to leave our money to if there is any left. Originally we left a token amount to Hubs siblings in the event the parents passed. So that is where it is now. Since we basically don't have much of a relationship with 2 out of the 3 that only leaves charity. We originally had a local animal welfare organization on the will. I still would like that. But I feel like something is missing! I keep postponing redoing the wills because I just don't know what to do! I have one close friend in another state and she could use money. She has had 3 failed marriages, bought a house and a car and had to go into foreclosure and had dumped inheritance money into the house. She had to declare bankruptcy. Whatever we decide to do I would like to put the money into a trust where the organization or person would get something like an annuity each year. Maybe something that they would only get the yearly interest and the principle would always be intact. Especially for an animal welfare organization. Anyone have any ideas here?
I'd say that's definitely a lawyer question, especially if your friend lives in another state. They should also have an idea of what other clients have done in situations similar to yours where there's not much family they want to leave their money to.
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How's everyone doing? We've updated some of our accounts to have the right beneficiary information, tax stuff has actually been helpful with remembering what accounts need that adjusted. Still need to do the password/account list. I figure even if the passwords change, knowing there's an account at xyz institution should help whoever has to track down all my stuff later.
We did agree that, while in theory it might be helpful to use my mom's safe as a safety deposit box, we don't trust her not to look through some of our personal documents in the spirit of "helpfulness" one day. On the flip side I have explicitly shared some documents with my dad since he'll be undertaking financial guardianship of our son if both me and my husband get hit by a bus. I emailed them to him and also showed him at our house where to look for stuff when he was visiting one time, it took maybe five minutes and then we got back to chatting like usual.
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alright, time to make a list of all the shit I gotta get sorted out, now that I am married and have assets.
In no particular order,
1- Write up an assets list Done
2- Assign beneficiaries for my super/ associated life insurance Done
3- Make a will. Any advice for Australia? is it worth just doing the Public Trust thing?
c) Read up the trust rules yesterday and impact of dying intestate is everything goes to my husband. Since I want to split my estate between husband, kids and niblings, time to make a will
4- Work out if there is any difference to our tax situation now we are married Done
5- Work out a plan for my step children, in case anything happens to my husband
6- Get a medical check-up - Need to book
7- Have the medical/living will conversation.
e) started the conversation while walking around the bays, both want to be cremated. Both want to be resuscitated.
New item: Work out the tax implications of moving out of Oz back to NZ. Because I am paying a boatload in taxes each year (and happy to do so) but don't want to have to sell up and take another hit when my preference is to leave my money here.
f) another item for the accountant as the rules around residency, pensions and citizenship are super complicated, particularly as my husband is American and may or may not get citizenship based on the outcome of the tax discussion.
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Just saw this thread and posting to follow!
My husband and I did all these things about 15 years ago after the birth of our first child, but our wills never even mention the second child and our situation has changed considerably.
We have a lot of complicated things to work out (husband is severely disabled and on disability retirement/SSDI) but we also have some less complicated things I should be able to work on realatively quickly.
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I'm making an appointment this week to sort this all out with a lawyer. I have decided to leave most of my assets to charities, as my high-earning DH will be fine without me, we have no children, and my sister is also a higher earner (I might leave her my personal finance books and maybe buy a lifelong membership to YNAB for her).
When listing charities, do you have to notify them in any way? Or can you just put them down and then leave it to the executor to work it out? I'm not even sure some of the places I have in mind accept donations, so should I confirm with them first?
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most charities have somebody on staff to help you put this in your will properly, but also they would help the executor. i'm sure it's preferable if you contact them in advance.
as far as not leaving money to your high earning sibling or spouse, please do consider what your wishes would be if circumstances changed. what if, years down the line, you pass away and they aren't high earners at the time? like if the economy tanked and they were aid off? or if they had become sick or disabled as the years passed? if your wishes would be different in that case then have your will written now in a way that deals with it. or what if you pass away in a accident (car? fire?) that also severely injures your spouse? are your wishes different in that case?
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I keep meaning to do this, but I keep putting it off.
I have some other big things to attend to this summer, so I should get the following done as well:
- Write a real will with a lawyer (right now I have a piece of paper).
- Make a secure document with passwords, bill instructions, lists of various insurances to collect upon my death/disability for my husband and give access to my sister and brother who tend to have level heads in a crisis. That's on paper, too, but without complete passwords.
- Update the secondary beneficiaries on our accounts to include new humans in our extended family.
- Decide who to give power of attorney to in the event my husband cannot fill that role. I'm leaning towards my little brother or my unofficial daughter if one of them is willing (we have no children)
- Set up funeral plans. We know what we want and where. I've even looked up the cost and payment plans, and they are reasonable. I don't want anyone to have to stress out about that.
- Update my living will and do not resuscitate orders.
- Hire a hitman to smother me with a pillow if I get completely lost in dementia (the death with dignity laws should allow this).
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Progress! Met with the attorney yesterday to sign everything. Just need to take one thing to be recorded, and of course the County is closed on President's day. So I will get that done. Was too cheap to have the attorney's office do it and pay them the $30, in addition to the recording fees.
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I applied for life insurance in November, they did my medical exam in December, and I've been waiting for them to get the requested medical records from my health care providers ever since. We're almost into March...
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Making progress on current goal of completing physical therapy in order to qualify for long term care insurance. Target date end March, though that's fuzzy.
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I so need this thread. I started the process to do my will many years ago, and stalled when we couldn't decide on a guardian for our kids. So instead, we have nothing. I've been sticking my head in the sand on this one.
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PTF! I got married last year and need to push forward with making sure everything goes to my wife, and work out what happens if we both pass.
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Well, all of our will and trust paperwork is almost done. I expect that we will be able to get it signed this coming week and notarized.
I will still need to work on emergency preparedness: Go Bags and having important docs/info in a safe place. I actually might get a safe :)
Im really glad Im getting this sorted out.
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Also all covered here, but joining because I need to update almost all of them now.
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Well, all of our will and trust paperwork is almost done. I expect that we will be able to get it signed this coming week and notarized.
I will still need to work on emergency preparedness: Go Bags and having important docs/info in a safe place. I actually might get a safe :)
Im really glad Im getting this sorted out.
YAY! WE DID IT!!
Wills and Trusts and Guardian Documents are all signed and notarized. Got it done today. I bought a safe! I need to make a copy and send to my dad (who is also my lawyer for now).
Working on 72 Hr Go bags. I have to make at least 4, so that is a lot. I should probably also consider one for the car and one for my husband to have at work. I made a checklist and will plan to keep picking up a few things at a time until its all collected.
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Well done, N!!!
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I got married last year, so putting a will together was on the forefront of my mind before I even saw this thread. Glad to have the extra encouragement.
After a disaster where my house is currently so messy I didn't even realize that the draft of my will was mailed to me three weeks ago (see: the decluttering thread), I read it over and talked through some minor changes with the lawyer this morning. Going in to sign it on April 10th.
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Hey, thanks for the reminder! I have a folder on my computer called “It’s Time to Adult” where I have drafted a POA, Will, Pour-Over Trust, and Living Will, but haven’t actually executed everything in it yet. So I need to get on that.
Me: 27F Attorney.
Status: Single.
Net Worth: -3k.
• Have a POA drafted but not executed.
• Have a will drafted but not executed.
• Have a pour over trust drafted but not executed.
• Have a living will/advanced directive drafted but not executed.
• Term life insurance needs additional blood work before they will finalize my policy.
I guess I should keep all of my financial accounts, passwords, medical cards and information, and other important info somewhere but I’m not sure where at this point. May be time to invest in a safe deposit box. I’m sure one of my banks will give a discounted or free SDP based on my assets. But I’m also thinking I should just make a binder and keep it at home just in case.
I'm a year younger but you have me wondering at what age one is supposed to do this? My networth is -20K so I am not sure how any of this will benefit me. Which makes me wonder, at what age should I be getting life insurance and drafting wills?
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Term Life insurance
-- get it if your income supports someone else and they rely on it in some way.
Disability insurance - get it if you rely on being able to earn an income for many more years
-- does your future self rely on your ability to make income for the next 10-25 years?.
Wills
-- need one if you have a minor or dependent. Period. To declare who will take care of them. Creating a guessing game when you die that requires government is not recommended.
-- need one if you don't like how the government will divide up your assets and take an admin fee while doing so... such as if you live with a (not spouse) partner who may be excluded from any assets or ability to remain in your current home after you die. Most single people are ok with the government rules. But maybe you don't want your estranged parent to get your savings..
Living Will / Health Directive
-- just a great idea to name someone who will make medical decisions if you can't (car accident / stroke), and someone who will be able to access / handle your accounts if you are medically incabable (pay your rent while you are in hospital in a coma). If you don't care, well, then you don't care..
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Hey, thanks for the reminder! I have a folder on my computer called “It’s Time to Adult” where I have drafted a POA, Will, Pour-Over Trust, and Living Will, but haven’t actually executed everything in it yet. So I need to get on that.
Me: 27F Attorney.
Status: Single.
Net Worth: -3k.
• Have a POA drafted but not executed.
• Have a will drafted but not executed.
• Have a pour over trust drafted but not executed.
• Have a living will/advanced directive drafted but not executed.
• Term life insurance needs additional blood work before they will finalize my policy.
I guess I should keep all of my financial accounts, passwords, medical cards and information, and other important info somewhere but I’m not sure where at this point. May be time to invest in a safe deposit box. I’m sure one of my banks will give a discounted or free SDP based on my assets. But I’m also thinking I should just make a binder and keep it at home just in case.
I'm a year younger but you have me wondering at what age one is supposed to do this? My networth is -20K so I am not sure how any of this will benefit me. Which makes me wonder, at what age should I be getting life insurance and drafting wills?
Well, obligatory "this is not legal advice if you're looking for actual legal advice please seek an attorney who is licensed in your state, preferably who has experience in wills, trusts, and/or estate planning." Whew. Okay.
So, the short answer (as with 99% of legal advice type answers) is "it depends." I have very limited information about your situation so I can't tell you specifically what you should look at getting. But it really depends on your situation. Don't wait until you feel like you need these items. I drafted mine when I was -30K in debt, because I wanted to have some say in what happens to my things. I made the mistake of not finalizing them until much later, though, and I feel so much better with a life insurance policy etc. in place.
1. Term life insurance - I got this because I have a long-term SO who I split all of my bills with. If you aren't married or have kids/dependents, this isn't as important, but I wanted to be sure that my SO and close family were okay if I passed and couldn't provide any help to them anymore (even if I don't regularly support them). I got $750K of coverage for $320/year. This is worth it to me.
2. Disability insurance - I chose not to get this, but it's up to you, and you should have it if married/dependents, otherwise it's optional. Some people carry it just until they FIRE since they can usually self-insure at that point.
3. Wills - I have one because I have a dog, and certain items I want to be sure go to certain people. I don't have much, but I would like to make sure that my dog and enough money to take care of her go to the right person. I'm not married and don't have kids, but I think everyone should have a will even if it's just for their funeral wishes and to give someone their car/furniture/whatever. Your will can get more complex as you gain assets, but even a basic one is something I think everyone should have. Google "[Your State] Intestate Distribution" to see who would get all of your stuff if you pass without a will. Usually, it goes: all to spouse, then if they aren't alive/you don't have one, all to your kids, then your parents, then your siblings, then your grandparents, then your great-grandparents, then aunt/uncles, etc. So if you absolutely don't want a will for some reason, then make sure you're 100% okay with the intestate order.
4. Power of Attorney - I have this because I know that my medical POA will follow my wishes to take me off of life support if the situation calls for it, and most people would have a really hard time doing that. Financial POA, too, because I know that person will manage my finances while I am incapacitated and will be reasonable.
5. Living Will - Especially if you're a woman I think this is important. I have a list of my wishes for life support, what level of care I am willing to undergo, for how long, with what prognosis, etc. and because I am female, I have the exact same list with changes if I happen to be pregnant at the time of my incapacitation. While I don't plan on having kids, I still want to consider all possibilities and maintain some control over my life in the event that I am braindead/in a coma/severely disabled/TBI.
Now, the extent to which you want to control these things is up to you. But I don't think having a negative net worth, or being young, should deter you. You can always update them, but getting them done first is always the hardest step.
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I think everyone who earns a salary should get short term and long term disability insurance regardless of whether anyone is dependent on them. If your work offers a sick leave bank or you have a lot of sick leave banked up you might be able to do without short term disability if you have a decent emergency fund, but if you are young the cost of disability insurance is really affordable.
Some people just assume that if they becomes disabled, they will qualify for government programs, but in the US at least it takes quite a while to get SSDI, and many people are denied the first time they apply.
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I spent part of today gathering up information about all my various pension plans. In my career I have worked long enough to vest in a couple different plans in different school districts. Nothing much in any one place, but it all adds up. I found my different account numbers, located everything online and created online accounts with each of them to be able to update information online. Several of the accounts still only have my maiden name so I printed out forms to update those and will send them in with certified copies of my marriage certificate. I also need to update my beneficiaries as I wasn't married when I had these jobs and my parents are still listed as my beneficiaries!
This is a thing that has been on my mind for years but I never got around to doing it. Seemed overwhelming to me but I got it all done in less than an hour.
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Nice going, CrustyBadger!!!
So often what we think will be endless or too hard is neither :)
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Nice going, CrustyBadger!!!
So often what we think will be endless or too hard is neither :)
Indeed!! In particular, so often what I think will require many frustrating phone calls, has been automated and put online!
I have always had a mild phone phobia. I could make phone calls, just really really didn't like to. Since my husband became disabled I have had to make a ton of phone calls on his behalf, and I think I've finally gotten over the inhibition. Even so, when things are available online, it just makes it that much more convenient to get the taken care of.
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Ran the numbers and made the call to Vanguard yesterday about changing from the retail to the wholesale funds (not automatic in Australia). Even if I hit some capital gains tax, it pays for itself by the time I FIRE and leaves me an additional year of living expenses by the time I can access Super. Printed out the form today, and I'll add the tax implications to the list I am handing off to the accountant at EOFY.
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I feel very adult. Updated our wills/ estate plan this week and got 10 year term life.
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I am going to talk to DH about decreasing at least my life insurance. (I'd likely decrease his as well, but I know that will be a much harder sell for him.) I'm now--due to a move overseas--an unemployed housewife. I'm in my early 40s. We have no kids. If I die, DH won't have the option of not working for a while, even if he wanted to, because he is in the military. I think I have $400,000 in insurance. Most of that is very cheap ($100k for $6.50/mo,), but I believe at least some of it is unnecessary. I am going to propose dropping everything except that cheap $100k policy. Access to that does go away when he leaves the military, however. (This will probably happen in ~6 years, but could be longer. Unlikely to be shorter.) That is going to be the part that will be tough to sell him on. But in reality, I don't think there's any need for any insurance on me. I'm certainly not a profligate spender, but I spend more than he does, so he will actually come out ahead without the financial drag of a non-working spouse!
We'll see how it goes. If he's receptive, I'll broach the subject of decreasing his, too. He has a whole life policy and a term policy and I am dreading having to wade through canceling or reducing the whole life, but it will be worth it if I can get him on board. I definitely need for him to have insurance, but not that much.
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Good one. This is actually doubly important for my partner and I because we're not legally married (and probably won't be anytime soon), but we do have a kid. So we need to be extra diligent about filing paperwork with the courts to establish legal and physical joint custody. It appears that per our state laws, he is considered the legal father (we did file the extra paperwork to do that at the hospital), but as the (single) mother I'm presumed to have sole physical custody unless we file a custody arrangement with the courts that says otherwise. We live together so in practical terms it's a moot point but if I died in a car crash tomorrow our child would have no custodian. Yikes.
Calling the attorney tomorrow!
So, did you actually meet with an attorney and get it all set up? Please tell me you did.
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Thanks for bumping this thread iris lily!
Posting for accountability - need to get emergency supply stash re-established after our kitchen reno.
- Shelf stable food
- Water for all household occupants
- BOB including copies of important documents, cash
- Reassess our flashlight situation
- Tiny BOB for kiddo (card holder thingy with pictures of relatives and their contact information along with some info for him)
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Well for accountability: we dispatched a pesky investment that was hanging out there, not part of our trust due to ridiculous amounts of paper I would have to file. I just cashed it in. DH is adamant that this will not affect our tax status for ACA subsidies. We shall see.
the outstanding financial instuments we have to bring into the fold of our trust is company stock directly owned. Ugh. That will be a nightmare.
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We've done nothing about our will so far, but we did take an important step by signing up for this legal plan that is part of a benefit of my husband's job. For a flat annual fee, we'll be able to take advantage of legal services to take care of all this stuff. We'll also be able to hire somebody grieve our property taxes, extra important now that we lose so much of our deduction.
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We've done nothing about our will so far, but we did take an important step by signing up for this legal plan that is part of a benefit of my husband's job. For a flat annual fee, we'll be able to take advantage of legal services to take care of all this stuff. We'll also be able to hire somebody grieve our property taxes, extra important now that we lose so much of our deduction.
Check to see if they have something like a will making kit. Ours had a little workbook, we got two (one for each person that needed a will) and filled them out, sent them off, then had documents back a few weeks later ready for our signature and a notary.
Just don't be like me in that I had the service for MONTHS before we got around to actually doing that part, paying the monthly fee for nothing in the meantime.
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Need to update all of our legal docs - our old ones don't include kid #2. oops.
Need to update our beneficiaries on 401ks/Rollover IRAs.
Look into a trust - I've heard this is good if one has young kids, but not sure if our situation fits.
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1. So, I am done thinking about who I will leave what to and I am giving up on trying to control what happens after my death. (sheesh)
I had a bit of a health scare and all I could think about is that I haven't ordered my affairs. So now I am super motivated.
2. Beneficiaries and POD (point of death) papers on all my accounts were done in 2018, but I need to make one change in Jan and also add a POD to an old account that I don't intend to ever close. Seemed hardly worth to do for this one account but then I realized it is better to make no exceptions, especially since the balance does vary.
3. Found an attorney that appears to have reasonable rates and will call for an appointment today.
4. Working on updating my/our BOB.
5. Will finish writing letters this Dec 2018 - one with all instructions and three to go to the people in my will.
Wondering what happens with the car? Presently there is a car loan - so the bank holds the title for a few more months. Is there a way for the car to go to my son automatically? Can this only be done via the will or would it be better to just "sell" it to him?
What does the bank do with a car when it is not fully paid off at the time of death?
6. Calling the consulate in January to find out what if any complications I can expect and need to account for. I read somewhere that if domicile is firmly established in the US - then US inheritance laws prevail. Germany is quite different, but then again, I might have dual citizenship by then and I am wondering how that will impact even a very small inheritance.
I find this all rather daunting, but maybe reading all the links in this thread and speaking with the lawyer will help and clarify some of the steps.
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We've done nothing about our will so far, but we did take an important step by signing up for this legal plan that is part of a benefit of my husband's job. For a flat annual fee, we'll be able to take advantage of legal services to take care of all this stuff. We'll also be able to hire somebody grieve our property taxes, extra important now that we lose so much of our deduction.
Check to see if they have something like a will making kit. Ours had a little workbook, we got two (one for each person that needed a will) and filled them out, sent them off, then had documents back a few weeks later ready for our signature and a notary.
Just don't be like me in that I had the service for MONTHS before we got around to actually doing that part, paying the monthly fee for nothing in the meantime.
Just saw this today... thanks, @meerkat! Our old will was done using Suze Orman software but we have more assets and more kids since then. And no worries, we are going to use that legal service very well... have to grieve property taxes, pursue a nonpaying client, etc.
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1. So, I am done thinking about who I will leave what to and I am giving up on trying to control what happens after my death. (sheesh)
I had a bit of a health scare and all I could think about is that I haven't ordered my affairs. So now I am super motivated.
2. Beneficiaries and POD (point of death) papers on all my accounts were done in 2018, but I need to make one change in Jan and also add a POD to an old account that I don't intend to ever close. Seemed hardly worth to do for this one account but then I realized it is better to make no exceptions, especially since the balance does vary.
3. Found an attorney that appears to have reasonable rates and will call for an appointment today.
4. Working on updating my/our BOB.
5. Will finish writing letters this Dec 2018 - one with all instructions and three to go to the people in my will.
Wondering what happens with the car? Presently there is a car loan - so the bank holds the title for a few more months. Is there a way for the car to go to my son automatically? Can this only be done via the will or would it be better to just "sell" it to him?
What does the bank do with a car when it is not fully paid off at the time of death?
6. Calling the consulate in January to find out what if any complications I can expect and need to account for. I read somewhere that if domicile is firmly established in the US - then US inheritance laws prevail. Germany is quite different, but then again, I might have dual citizenship by then and I am wondering how that will impact even a very small inheritance.
I find this all rather daunting, but maybe reading all the links in this thread and speaking with the lawyer will help and clarify some of the steps.
I am a financial planner, not a lawyer, and this is free internet person advice, and worth about the same....
1-3 Awesome.
4) I don't know what a BOB is (beneficiary?) sounds like it is good, though.
5) Ensure that your will and letters don't contradict your beneficiary designations. Your lawyer should cover this for you, ideally you would hand over the letters at the time they are preparing your will, for a quick check.
Also, note that the will, if dated newer, could over ride investment declared beneficiaries... or vice versa, in future.
6) Any property of a deceased person is subject to US Estate tax laws if:
A) the value of the US domiciled property (real estate, car, investments in US banks, bank accounts) is over $60k USD AND
b) your total estate worldwide is over the Estate tax exemption limit... which just rose to 11.2 Million, but will fall back down to 5 million in a few years.
Estate tax in the USA is 40%... so you DON'T want to hold assets over $60k in the USA if you are at all close to $5 million in worldwide assets.... especially as each elected government can change the limit quickly and suddenly on you.
c) there are also probate costs to account for and distribute the US assets, if needed, which can be relatively costly as well.
CAR
Generally, the bank will call any loans, including a car loan, when the deceased dies, and the estate needs to pay all creditors before paying out the estate. If there is not enough cash to cover the loans, the assets are sold, as determined by the executor / executrix. Depending on the loan, it may be attached only and solely to the car title, so the car could be repossesed per the loan documents if the debt is not repaid upon demand, in the specified timeframe. Note that if the estate is tied up in probate, they may not be able to release the funds in time, so the car would be repossessed, if that is what the loan docs state. You need to check your car loan documents to determine what happens in default or death. They will state it clearly.
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Thank you so much Goldie:). That helps me moving forward, I'll investigate further.
I'll dig into the loan papers for the car.
BOB is something different - preparedness in case of a disaster - refers to a Bug Out Bag in case of an emergency if you need to leave immediately in case of a hurricane or fire for instance. We live in hurricane country and I know someone personally whose house dropped into a huge sinkhole.
One bag, plastic box or small suitcase for each person to grab in a hurry.
It contains food and water for at least 72 hours, emergency radio, flashlights, first aid kit, medicines, prescriptions, a couple of changes of clothing, sturdy shoes and jacket, extra underwear, valuables-expensive jewelry and of course a list of your contacts, banks, credit card info - passwords, investments, important papers like Social Security Card, birth cert., passports, pictures-videos of your house - each room, open the closet and open the china cabinet even the fridge and kitchen cabinets.
Basically an inventory for the insurance company etc or possibly FEMA.
In any case, cash incl. lots of small denominations (ATMs may not work and banks will be closed) and coins for snacks and coffee from the machine and extra gasoline...
On the first page of this thread there are a ton of links.
We have one for our cat too - carrier, blanket, food dish, food and extra water and disposable cat litter containers - as well as pictures of him in case we lose him, his shot records and a harness so he doesn't go stir crazy since he is an indoor-outdoor cat.
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Yay - I saw my lawyer today and hope to have everything sorted soon.
Besides, I wanted to bump this thread for the New Year - let's all get our shit together in 2019!
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This is such a good idea for a thread. DS is a year old and Mrs. FL and I have no excuse for not having our wills made out yet. Neither of us is planning to die any time soon, but if anything did happen to us, we need to make sure he'll be taken care of.
We really need to make an appointment with a lawyer and sort this out. Hopefully, this thread title popping up in my unread-posts list whenever I log on will be the prodding I need to get it done in 2018.
Well, I meant to get this done in 2018 and that didn't happen... but I'm happy to say it's done now!
We've been exchanging e-mails with a lawyer friend for months. We told him our wishes, he pointed out some things we hadn't considered, and this week we finally met with him and got the papers signed. I'm still not planning to die any time soon, but it's a weight off my shoulders knowing that it's done at last.
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@FireLane High five! That's great!
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Have always had voluntary life insurance maxed due to my employer but haven't touched any of the others listed in topic... maybe it's time I visit them.
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Good for you, FIRE at 45!
I have a basic question. My father in New York State already has a will but now he wants to do a POA and a living will with me the person with the POA etc. However, I live in Italy. Can he execute the document without my presence? Or does he have to wait until I visit him next time probably this summer?
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@Hula Hoop I am guessing that he could send you a copy of the PDA and the Living Will, and you could sign them in the presence of a Notary Public. You can find one at the US Embassy.
https://it.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/notarial-services/
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Thanks, CB. I'll look into that.
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I just reduced DH and my life insurance to $100k on each of us. Deep breath.
Baby steps. We jumped into the next higher cost band this year, so I am just dropping it to keep costs constant. Technically, we should be able to self-fund, because we are pretty much FIRED on a fraction of our prior incomes, youngest kid will be 17 soon and we have their education funds sorted out.
For some reason, I like the insurance safety net... hard habit to shake once you have it.
I will have to update the wills once the youngest is no longer a minor.
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I just reduced DH and my life insurance to $100k on each of us. Deep breath.
Baby steps. We jumped into the next higher cost band this year, so I am just dropping it to keep costs constant. Technically, we should be able to self-fund, because we are pretty much FIRED on a fraction of our prior incomes, youngest kid will be 17 soon and we have their education funds sorted out.
For some reason, I like the insurance safety net... hard habit to shake once you have it.
I will have to update the wills once the youngest is no longer a minor.
Interesting. I've self insured for years now.
Glad to hear others have the same approach to getting self-insured eventually. We were up at $450k each 3 years ago, and I have so much trouble going cold turkey with a huge mortgage, still. (Mortgage value is much larger than the insurance). It is one of the hidden costs of "Don't pay off your mortgage club"... At some level, when you have large expenses (mortgage), you still want insurance, even if you could self-insure. If we paid down the mortgage and have smaller investments, I think I would get rid of the life insurance, which is not logical, but there you go.
Not sure how I feel about other types of insurance, I am at a $1million coverage for liabiity (professional / 3rd party car insurance). When you have FIRE assets, you want some protection, you know? Anyway, that is a different thread from life insurance / wills.
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I just changed over my super provider and dropped my life insurance at the same time to just what is included by the fund. We have no mortgage, and we have both super and investments we could draw on so it was scary but also just done now.
I think my last item on my list is writing my will.
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we have wills POA and extra life insurance. $1 mill umbrella insurance for $200/yr
mine extra life insurance is not cheap bc i'm a man (i know i'm getting ripped off bc i'm so healthy)
but i still have it for my kids.
i tried to renegotiate car insurance but have not succeeded yet
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I called a lawyer last week and left a message saying we'd like to update our will.
Her office called back left a message on my machine.
My move!
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after a year of procrastinating, I'm finally get this done :)
I'm using the lawyer that did my divorce. $1k all in. Maybe a little high, but there are some unique custody issues to consider. I didn't think it worth it to shop around to save a few hundred, maybe.
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This is a good challenge for me - my goal is to get our wills and directives squared away in the next couple of months.
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How do you get a good Executor / Executrix? No one I know I would trust to handle this.
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How do you get a good Executor / Executrix? No one I know I would trust to handle this.
A lawyer, accountant, or bank can serve as your executor. The lawyer/law office that drafted your will cannot serve as the executor, however, due to possible conflict of interest.
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How do you get a good Executor / Executrix? No one I know I would trust to handle this.
We don’t have children so I am less concerned about having a good executor then probably parents with children. But we chose our friend who is frugal along with our siblings,. They operate as a team and may make decisions independently of one another. I think that’s OK
, they’re all reasonable people.I think they will have similar mindsets and disposing of property.
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We have an appointment next week with a lawyer to get our wills and other pertinent documents drawn up.
Hopefully the formal paperwork will be done within a week or so of that.
I've already written up a "things you need to know" document but I'm going to cross-check it with the excellent list of items I just read in this thread.
I've got a 2 hour meeting with my son and his wife scheduled for our next get together. My wife will take the grandkids to the movie so we can have undisturbed conversation time. I want to make sure they both know basic money and investment concepts and have time to ask questions, etc. As Jim Rohn quipped, if you end up with a million dollars, it's best to learn how to manage it or you won't be a millionaire for long.
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Took the first step - got the names of a couple of lawyers in the area. I know this seems like a really small step but it is already more than I've done so far :-)
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Have got my solicitor to draw up will, POA and EG. No life insurance...cancelled it all years ago when i realised if I die my kids will be well off, since I won't have to pay for my reitirement. Need to make followup appointments to get this all signed off.
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Yes! One of my goals this year is a real will.
I have my estate clearly laid out with 6 pages of detailed instructions on how to manage/distribute the money. Just updated and sent to the executor and guardian, but do not have a real will.
Life insurance is covered. $1,000,000 for my on a term, $210k from work, and my wife has $500k from work.
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Actually set up an appointment with a lawyer for tomorrow to start work on wills. I've been putting this off for years so I'm glad to have overcome inertia!
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Had appointment with lawyer and got the process of creating our wills moving.
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All done. Completed Will, Power of Attorney and Enduring Guardianship this last week. Feels good to have it done. Cost 2k, which includes the upmarket version of the will including testamentary trusts etc.
No life insurance, I don't need it.
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Had appointment with lawyer and got the process of creating our wills moving.
Nice job!
All done. Completed Will, Power of Attorney and Enduring Guardianship this last week. Feels good to have it done. Cost 2k, which includes the upmarket version of the will including testamentary trusts etc.
No life insurance, I don't need it.
Good for you!
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I am so glad this thread popped up again - I needed the reminder to review our will and potentially make changes. In the 5+ years since we did it up there have been lots of changes (children & health challenges) for the persons we had assigned as guardians for our children. Also we have had a few friends whose parents have passed recently and the nightmares of 20+ and 30+ year old wills that have never been updated have been shocking. Way too many extra hoops to jump through for those who are supposed to be grieving.
How often do you think it is prudent to review? Every 5 years or if a big life change happens?
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How often do you think it is prudent to review? Every 5 years or if a big life change happens?
I'd say a quick mental review every year to think about changes - if they are major then do the will changes.
My will was done in 2012? 2013? It didn't need changing until now. My sister was executor and there would have been a house to sell - she is retired and has the time and experience to do that. Now that the house is sold and all my major assets are more liquid I will be redoing my will and my DD will be my executor. I just couldn't ask her to do it when there was a house in the picture - she doesn't live near here and she has a full time job, it would have been very difficult for her.
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Hub and I have no children or close relatives. Who would we appoint as an executor if we both croak? We do have an ancient will that needs updating but we also don't really know how to disperse our savings either. We have, in our original will, that the money will go to animal welfare in our town. That is, if there is any moola left! Our original will specified that the money be divided among our parents but all four are long gone. Spouse has 3 siblings that are estranged. I have no siblings.
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PTF so it will be a regular reminder to tackle this soon!
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I need to do this. We have life insurance but no wills, and we want to be able to say who the kids will go to if we die. Posting so this pops up in my 'replies to your posts"!
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Hub and I have no children or close relatives. Who would we appoint as an executor if we both croak? We do have an ancient will that needs updating but we also don't really know how to disperse our savings either. We have, in our original will, that the money will go to animal welfare in our town. That is, if there is any moola left! Our original will specified that the money be divided among our parents but all four are long gone. Spouse has 3 siblings that are estranged. I have no siblings.
I suspect if your spouse has no will and dies after you, the 3 estranged siblings will be getting the estate.
If you don't want them to have it, get a will. And when you're doing it, ask the lawyer whether it's best to specifically exclude said siblings.
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Hub and I have no children or close relatives. Who would we appoint as an executor if we both croak? We do have an ancient will that needs updating but we also don't really know how to disperse our savings either. We have, in our original will, that the money will go to animal welfare in our town. That is, if there is any moola left! Our original will specified that the money be divided among our parents but all four are long gone. Spouse has 3 siblings that are estranged. I have no siblings.
I suspect if your spouse has no will and dies after you, the 3 estranged siblings will be getting the estate.
If you don't want them to have it, get a will. And when you're doing it, ask the lawyer whether it's best to specifically exclude said siblings.
We have a will from 1991 that has not been updated. Each of Hubs siblings would get a very minor amount of money each, but now I'd like to cut them out completely. Our old will specifies that all our money go to animal welfare in our town and not to his siblings.
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PTF. Now that I'm FIRE I have no excuse to keep putting this off. Mine will be simple, everything to my son/DIL/granddaughter, but I need to put together a list of all my accounts and how to access them, make sure I have them designated as beneficiaries, etc.
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Our "Things You Need To Know" document for our heirs has the following topics in it (and of course they'll know where to find it):
Contacts: Business partners, people we routinely do business with: realtor, lawyer, accountants.
Things to do: Add a change of address so mail goes to their home, refresh it at the end of the next 2 years to get those once a year documents.
Where things likely are in the house: Documents, checkbooks, mortgage coupon payment book, gun safe key, keys to rental properties, etc.
Land: List of property and the URL for the registry of deeds to double-check the document is up to date. Associated payment schedules and bills for those properties.
Accounts Receivable: Any mortgage notes or loans that others owe us for.
Liabilities: Mortgage, property taxes, HELOC.
What do to with things they don't want: Suggestions for places to charitably donate the items to and local estate sale companies that do a good job.
Burial wishes: Keep it simple, keep it inexpensive, have a wake and invite our friends.
Family obligations on farmland ownership that's shared with my mom's side of the family: Advice on how to handle things and what we would recommend if other relatives want to sell.
Banks: Banks we do business with and why
Investment Accounts: Places that hold our stock/bond portfolios.
Insurance: Who we have insurance with.
Money and Investment Advice: Little snippets of wisdom that hopefully will help them avoid big mistakes. Plus an attempt to teach the right mindset. Things like if you want a luxury that will require an ongoing expense, set up an investment that will provide an income stream to pay for it.
Hope that helps!
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Our "Things You Need To Know" document for our heirs has the following topics in it (and of course they'll know where to find it):
That's great! Mind if I add it to the resources at the beginning?
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Our "Things You Need To Know" document for our heirs has the following topics in it (and of course they'll know where to find it):
That's great! Mind if I add it to the resources at the beginning?
Sure, go ahead!
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What a tremendous resource this thread is!
Posting to follow and as a self-reminder.
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Our "Things You Need To Know" document for our heirs has the following topics in it (and of course they'll know where to find it):
That's great! Mind if I add it to the resources at the beginning?
I agree, thanks for sharing your list with us @SwordGuy
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I just wanted to celebrate getting my in-laws to fill out their heath POA, living will, and durable POA. Next, we're holding each other accountable on getting our wills taken care of. It feels good to make progress!
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I want to do this.
Goals:
- Life Insurance for DW
- Advance Directives for each other
- bug out bag and emergency evacuation procedure
- set more goals
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Yearly bump.
I done got divorced, and am in the process of updating my will, and powers of attorney. The final monetary effect of The Sunndering will be flying from Washington DC, to Seattle, Washington to sign the documentation in front of the lawyer, like a good little boy.
This spasm is also partially motivated by the sudden death of a family member, and our search for a will. Cracking into her digital life, to try and see if there’s any correspondence with a lawyer, etc. Which lead to the question: how will you pass on your digital life to your loved ones or executor?
My strategy is to sign up for 1Password. I’ve been spending 10 minutes each day transferring all my scattered emails, keychains, and jotted notes over to that. I’ll write the master password down, and stick that into the envelope with my will. I’ll probably add the pin I use for my phones and iPads.
Anyone have a better strategy for digital inheritance??
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SailorSam's great question, for which I do not know the answer, brought my attention to this excellent thread. Looking back at Meerkat and SwordGuy's very helpful list at the beginning of the thread I did not see a discussion of beneficiaries for investment accounts, including IRAs, 401(k)s, and 403(b)s, and pensions. Everyone needs to know that beneficiary designations on accounts override wills. The great thing about this is that for most accounts you can designate or update beneficiaries quickly and easily online. It's great to check them once a year and make sure you still want the same designations. You can also add beneficiaries to bank accounts.
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This spasm is also partially motivated by the sudden death of a family member, and our search for a will. Cracking into her digital life, to try and see if there’s any correspondence with a lawyer, etc. Which lead to the question: how will you pass on your digital life to your loved ones or executor?
My strategy is to sign up for 1Password. I’ve been spending 10 minutes each day transferring all my scattered emails, keychains, and jotted notes over to that. I’ll write the master password down, and stick that into the envelope with my will. I’ll probably add the pin I use for my phones and iPads.
Anyone have a better strategy for digital inheritance??
I use Dashlane for password management, and it has an emergency feature that you set up to release your passwords to designated people after your demise. I believe they trigger it, and then it sends daily emails/texts to you for a set number of days (giving you opportunity to intercept if you are indeed still on this planet.) When the set amount of days goes by without your interference, the passwords then release to your designated people.
I would check to see if 1password offers something similar - I would guess that they do.
This has got me thinking - it also has a secure notes area - I wonder if I could keep a copy of my will in there as well, just in case the original goes astray. Hmm...
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In most jurisdictions you can file a copy of your will with the probate court, the old-fashioned way to ensure there's a copy available.
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Yearly bump.
I done got divorced, and am in the process of updating my will, and powers of attorney. The final monetary effect of The Sunndering will be flying from Washington DC, to Seattle, Washington to sign the documentation in front of the lawyer, like a good little boy.
This spasm is also partially motivated by the sudden death of a family member, and our search for a will. Cracking into her digital life, to try and see if there’s any correspondence with a lawyer, etc. Which lead to the question: how will you pass on your digital life to your loved ones or executor?
My strategy is to sign up for 1Password. I’ve been spending 10 minutes each day transferring all my scattered emails, keychains, and jotted notes over to that. I’ll write the master password down, and stick that into the envelope with my will. I’ll probably add the pin I use for my phones and iPads.
Anyone have a better strategy for digital inheritance??
I got divorced this year, too. Final papers came through about 2 months ago (it was a 2 year process, Canada has a mandatory 1 year separation before filing, I dragged my feet, and the courts are backlogged, even for rubber stamped no contest divorces).
With my youngest kid 19 (age of majority here), and newly single life, I have booked my wills appointment with my lawyer for next week. Have already changed my beneficiaries on everything.
For passwords... the lawyer includes a sheet / comment about "digital assets" -- without passwords but notes what key items are there for executor to even find.
My password strategy is to have 3-4 "rings" of passwords. One for banking (unique, secure), one for things my credit card or taxes, etc. is attached to, one for google / iphone / work identity stuff, and a generic one that I use for everything else (like MMM).
Setting up 2factor authorizations when possible also helps. This basically means only 4 passwords to write down somewhere and only 3 to update on an on-going basis.
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Glad this thread popped up. Have had the draft will on my desk for the last couple of months. Need to finalize and sign!
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Woosh this is timely. Expecting #2, and I’m still dragging my feet on life insurance quotes. Ok, gonna put this out in the universe so now I have some sense of accountability lol. Going to get this done. We need everything still. No will, no insurance, no written guardian for the kids (just verbal agreements but for Reasons, we need to get this in writing).
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Finally, after several years of procrastination, my wife and I just went and signed our wills, POA and living will at our lawyers office. This task had been hanging over my head for at least the last three years. What a relief it is to get this taken care of!
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I've got a list of shit to get together:
Find lawyer to do Will, and Powers of Attorney- Meet with lawyer
- Do what lawyer says to establish trust for minor children & guardianship for Tiny Dog
- Sign Will & POA
Update SGLI beneficiary to Tiny Dog guardian- Update USAA Pay on Death to Executor
- Update Vanguard, Betterment, TSP beneficiary to trust for minor children
- Provide Will, POA, and quick start document to executor and guardians
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Question regarding life insurance.
I’ve collected a huge handful of quotes through two brokers. Im seeing some pretty wide discrepancies in terms of annual costs for the same policy. We are looking at getting a 20 year term policy for $1m for each of us. For one of us, the annual cost ranges from $312-$1,005(!). For the other it is $590-$895.
Is it worth having both policies at one place? Is it worth paying more, and if so how much more, annually, to have a policy from a place well known for customer service? Given that this is to provide peace of mind to those who you may leave behind, I’d think it would be worth something to ensure that it’s through a company that won’t give your beneficiaries a hard time. But NW mutual for example is a mid-cost option for one of us but the highest by far for the other. I don’t want to be more than doubling the cost of this for no reason, but also don’t want to be penny wise and pound foolish, and it’s hard to make a rational decision about this…
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Question regarding life insurance.
I’ve collected a huge handful of quotes through two brokers. Im seeing some pretty wide discrepancies in terms of annual costs for the same policy. We are looking at getting a 20 year term policy for $1m for each of us. For one of us, the annual cost ranges from $312-$1,005(!). For the other it is $590-$895.
Is it worth having both policies at one place? Is it worth paying more, and if so how much more, annually, to have a policy from a place well known for customer service? Given that this is to provide peace of mind to those who you may leave behind, I’d think it would be worth something to ensure that it’s through a company that won’t give your beneficiaries a hard time. But NW mutual for example is a mid-cost option for one of us but the highest by far for the other. I don’t want to be more than doubling the cost of this for no reason, but also don’t want to be penny wise and pound foolish, and it’s hard to make a rational decision about this…
Anecdotally, Husband and I have our life insurance policies through different companies. I got mine on my own when I was pregnant with our first, and he got his through his insurance agent that he's had his whole life (his parents used HIS father). I don't think it makes a difference? We just cut separate checks to separate companies once a year. I obviously can't speak to how the payout process would work for one company vs the other, and I hope to never have to, but for that great of a difference in yearly premiums, I would absolutely be willing to go two separate ways.
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UPDATE. Talked to the lawyer yesterday.
I've got a list of shit to get together:
Find lawyer to do Will, and Powers of AttorneyMeet with lawyer- Do what lawyer says to establish trust for minor children & guardianship for Tiny Dog
- Sign Will & POA
Update SGLI beneficiary to Tiny Dog guardian- Update USAA Pay on Death to Executor
- Update Vanguard, Betterment, TSP beneficiary to trust for minor children
- Provide Will, POA, and quick start document to executor and guardians
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This is a great thread. My partner and I have been together for ten years, and I've been bugging him just to add beneficiaries to his investment accounts for like 4 years. Now that we just bought a house, I REALLY want us to get our shit together.
-ADD beneficiaries to investment accounts! (mostly him, but I'd better double check mine)
-Wills
-POAs
-maybe term life insurance policies... we don't have kids, but maybe enough to cover the house if something happens to one of us. Will think on this.
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Ok so my official list:
1. Get life insurance for the both of us
1.a Get quotes
1.b Decide which to go with
1.c Do all the paperwork and exams, etc.
1.d Have life insurance
2. Get wills written and officialized
2.a Talk to parents about designation as guardians and executors
2.b Talk to siblings about being backup-to-the-backup guardians and executors
2.c Ask local lawyer about cost to draft a will
2.d Decide whether to do it on legal zoom or via a lawyer
2.e Draft will
2.f ??? Is a trust necessary if kids are minors? I trust parents w money but might want some kind of safe guard if siblings are guardians instead
2.g Will is official and done
3. (Optional) Living will, POA, and desires for burial etc.
This isn’t strictly necessary, though I know we both have some thoughts in this area. DH more strongly than I. So it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get them in writing, though we’ve had discussions about them before.
4. Double check beneficiaries on all accounts. Pretty sure this is done though.
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Is it typical to give your SSN and bank account information as part of the application for life insurance? I’m nearly 100% sure the broker is legit, since I went directly through the insurance company to get to them, however my spidey senses are ALWAYS on high alert with requests for this kind of thing, for obvious reasons.
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SSN is definitely normal in the life insurance application process. I can't remember if the bank account info was or not. When we got 20 year term life insurance of $500k each (when buying a farm, so if one of us dies - the other has cash to cover expenses while figuring out who will buy it from them), we used one of those websites that you put your info in and they shopped around for policies. We ended up with different companies which seems fine - like Jessa said just send the payment two places each year and the policies are stored together so if we both die at the same time my parents can just call those places.
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This thread bump is timely for me too.
We sorted everything out last year during COVID (wills, POA, advanced care plan) but now we’re having a baby so will need to update everything soon.
I’ve just ordered a library book on inheritances and family legacies - I want to think a bit more about the best way to do this.
We will be spending lots of time with family over Christmas so that will be a good opportunity to have some chats with the family members we’d like to be guardians too.
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I have not seen this mentioned, but having helped several friends- get official copies of vital records. If you are married, you will need a copy of your marriage certificate to get any spousal benefits. I would get copies of your birth certificate, spouse birth, children’s birth and marriage certificates ( and divorce papers or death certificates of former spouses). If your parents are deceased, copies of their death certificates as well.
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I have not seen this mentioned, but having helped several friends- get official copies of vital records. If you are married, you will need a copy of your marriage certificate to get any spousal benefits. I would get copies of your birth certificate, spouse birth, children’s birth and marriage certificates ( and divorce papers or death certificates of former spouses). If your parents are deceased, copies of their death certificates as well.
My birth certificate is one I’ll have to figure out, though I have all the rest. Though, are you recommending two copies of each? My mother kept my birth certificate “so I wouldn’t lose it”, and now we don’t speak so as far as I’m concerned I’ve lost it.
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You can order an official copy of your birth certificate. Probably worth doing.
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Great advice @marion10
Ordering new copies of birth and marriage certificates has been a simple process in my state ... until the staff in that dept were redeployed during Covid and suddenly there were huge waits, no replies to enquires and no office you could attend to find out what the hell was going on.
Worth having on hand just in case.
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It’s usually cheaper to buy multiple copies. In Cook County,Illinois a birth certificate is something like $15, but an extra copy is $3. Avoid Vitalchek if you can- they have outrageous fees and most states have a cheaper option directly from the state or county.
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Just saw this thread and posting to follow!
My husband and I did all these things about 15 years ago after the birth of our first child, but our wills never even mention the second child and our situation has changed considerably.
We have a lot of complicated things to work out (husband is severely disabled and on disability retirement/SSDI) but we also have some less complicated things I should be able to work on realatively quickly.
Posting to update --- it took us um.... 3 years and 8 months, but we finally FINALLY have finished all the things! (Almost.) I found a lawyer who specializes in elder and disability law and she walked us through a lot of different scenarios. Since it took us so long to get around to finalizing things, our kids are now over 18 or close to it, which makes the whole guardian question a lot easier.
The hard part was realizing that my husband is no longer in a position to be my Power of Attorney or Health Care POA. God forbid anything should happen to me, his world will be all about figuring out how to care for himself (I am his primary caregiver). Although he is mentally competent he can no longer speak and even texting and typing is very hard, and he is homebound. I really needed to find other people for those roles for me; even asking just one person besides your spouse is hard, and the lawyer wanted me to have TWO or ideally three. Our son is a bit too young yet for this responsibility, so I had to reach out to friends. Anyhow I did, and I feel good that our affairs are as organized as they can be if anything happens to me.
One good discussion we had in the process was with our kids. We aren't religious and the kids have never been to a funeral before. I spoke with them about what we'd want in terms of burial and it turns out all four of us prefer the idea of cremation to burial in a cemetery. I joked that I'd want my kids to take my ashes and spread a little bit on each continent.
I'm hoping all the forms will be ready to be signed within the next month, and then hopefully I can not worry about this any longer.
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Ok so my official list:
1. Get life insurance for the both of us
1.a Get quotes
1.b Decide which to go with
1.c Do all the paperwork and exams, etc.
1.d Have life insurance
2. Get wills written and officialized
2.a Talk to parents about designation as guardians and executors
2.b Talk to siblings about being backup-to-the-backup guardians and executors
New step: talk to friend about being short term pet guardian and finder of new homes
New step: pick local temp guardians and talk to them
New step: Just make basic free will DIY to have one
2.c Ask local lawyer about cost to draft a will and set up trust
2.d Decide whether to do it on legal zoom or via a lawyer
2.e Draft will
2.f ???
2.g Will is official and done
3. (Optional) Living will, POA, and desires for burial etc.
This isn’t strictly necessary, though I know we both have some thoughts in this area. DH more strongly than I. So it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get them in writing, though we’ve had discussions about them before.
4. Double check beneficiaries on all accounts. Pretty sure this is done though.
Got a few things done today. Things are moving, this is good.
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UPDATE. Flew my ass across this entire large country in order to visit the lawyer, and execute all my new documents. How’s that for dedication?
Find lawyer to do Will, and Powers of AttorneyMeet with lawyerDo what lawyer says to establish trust for minor children & guardianship for Tiny DogSign Will & POAUpdate SGLI beneficiary to Tiny Dog guardian- Update USAA Pay on Death to Executor
- Update Vanguard, SGLI, Betterment, TSP beneficiary to trust for minor children
Provide Will, POA, and quick start document to executor and guardians
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Hope this will inspire me. My father is now in a nursing home and sorting out his stuff has been pretty draining. We need new wills as our children are no longer minors. Plan to do powers of attorney for each other, with our daughter as back up. And remember those vital records - they wanted a copy of my parents divorce decree as part of his Medicaid application process- and I was able to produce a copy right away.
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UPDATE. Actually made progress on updating the beneficiary stuff.
Find lawyer to do Will, and Powers of AttorneyMeet with lawyerDo what lawyer says to establish trust for minor children & guardianship for Tiny DogSign Will & POAUpdate SGLI beneficiary to Tiny Dog guardianUpdate USAA Pay on Death to Executor- Update Vanguard, SGLI, Betterment,
TSP beneficiary to trust for minor children Provide Will, POA, and quick start document to executor and guardians
I’m getting close! I’ll probably finish this round right when it’s time to start the next… Blerk.
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Spouse and I have been married for almost 16 years and had only completed some of these items - term life through employers and beneficiaries on main retirement accounts.
My current employer offers Legal as part of their benefits package, and I signed up for 2022. We have already met with the lawyer and submitted paperwork for will, trust, living will.
Most of the beneficiary stuff is in place, finished a couple more this month.
Once the trust paperwork is complete, some of my beneficiary items will be updated to list the trust.
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Just met with a new lawyer in a a new state we moved to in order to update our docs 15 years later. Most stressful part? We need to find two witnesses unrelated to us. We don’t have close friends here. Who are we gonna get!?
Lawyer also thought we didn’t need a trust, which I found interesting. She said probate is just a process, it isn’t good or bad. And if heirs are gonna squabble a trust won’t help, they’ll still squabble.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You do not need to know the witnesses. It's okay to use staff at the attorney's office.
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You do not need to know the witnesses. It's okay to use staff at the attorney's office.
Yeah this lawyer is a one person show out of her home. Maybe she still know people.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ok so my official list:
1. Get life insurance for the both of us
1.a Get quotes
1.b Decide which to go with
1.c Do all the paperwork and exams, etc.
1.d Have life insurance
2. Get wills written and officialized
2.a Talk to parents about designation as guardians and executors
2.b Talk to siblings about being backup-to-the-backup guardians and executors
New step: talk to friend about being short term pet guardian and finder of new homes
New step: pick local temp guardians and talk to them
New step: Just make basic free will DIY to have one
2.c Ask local lawyer about cost to draft a will and set up trust
2.d Decide whether to do it on legal zoom or via a lawyer
2.e Draft will
2.f ???
2.g Will is official and done
3. (Optional) Living will, POA, and desires for burial etc.
This isn’t strictly necessary, though I know we both have some thoughts in this area. DH more strongly than I. So it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get them in writing, though we’ve had discussions about them before.
4. Double check beneficiaries on all accounts. Pretty sure this is done though.
Got a few things done today. Things are moving, this is good.
Niiiice item 1 is DONE. And item 4. Now just the will. That’s in the works. I just have to pay the $ to the lawyer and fill out their forms to get the convo started.
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Mrs StoaX and I have our "shit together" except for 2 things:
We gotta pare down the complexity of our finances so someone else can understand it if necessary, and get a friend or family member on board to handle things if neither of us can do it.
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UPDATE. So close. All I need to do is mail the quick-start guides to a couple people.
Find lawyer to do Will, and Powers of AttorneyMeet with lawyerDo what lawyer says to establish trust for minor children & guardianship for Tiny DogSign Will & POAUpdate SGLI beneficiary to Tiny Dog guardianUpdate USAA Pay on Death to ExecutorUpdate Vanguard, SGLI, Betterment, TSP beneficiary to trust for minor children- Provide
Will, POA, and quick start document to executor and guardians
I've added a few things:
- Finalize Evacuate(!) Bag - food cubes, paracord, wool socks, underwear, shoes, towel, packing cubes(?), vital documents
- Gather Get Home Now(!) Bag - hat, gloves, wool socks, shoes, tarp, mylar blanket, water filtration, food.
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Hope this will inspire me. My father is now in a nursing home and sorting out his stuff has been pretty draining. We need new wills as our children are no longer minors. Plan to do powers of attorney for each other, with our daughter as back up. And remember those vital records - they wanted a copy of my parents divorce decree as part of his Medicaid application process- and I was able to produce a copy right away.
Your post points out an interesting nuance:. In addition to getting your shit together, you gotta keep it together by updating things as circumstances change.
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This is a great thread. My partner and I have been together for ten years, and I've been bugging him just to add beneficiaries to his investment accounts for like 4 years. Now that we just bought a house, I REALLY want us to get our shit together.
-ADD beneficiaries to investment accounts! (mostly him, but I'd better double check mine)
-Wills
-POAs
-maybe term life insurance policies... we don't have kids, but maybe enough to cover the house if something happens to one of us. Will think on this.
Have decided against term life insurance - our house is cheap enough that if need be, my partner could pay it off from our combined assets.
I reminded him yesterday (after I was reminded by this thread!) that he still needs to add beneficiaries to his accounts. He nodded at me, and opened his computer with purpose and began tapping the keys. I was surprised and wondered if he was going to start immediately, so I look over his shoulder and see that he has opened Twitter. Sigh. I will accomplish this task this year.
I also signed up for our company's Legal Plan and opened up the option to create the will, POA, etc. I've seen other people on the forum mention receiving a packet in the mail to fill out. But mine offered me two options: meet with someone in person, or fill out an online form and "Protect your Loved Ones in 15 Minutes"... so... I guess I'll try out the 15 minute version.
I am making my brother the executor of my will (he's a lawyer so he's used to the bureaucracy and doesn't mind phone calls. I should let him know though.) The piece that's got me paused now is deciding who is the best person to make decisions if I'm incapacitated. My partner would be fine, but he has some genetic hearing loss that impacts him when talking on the phone, so I want to think it through.
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I have been off the forums for a long time & just started lurking again the last few days. I was debating whether or not to jump back in, but this gauntlet really spoke to me. Getting my own affairs in order & my parents as well has been on my mind a lot lately. I have been making baby steps towards it, but it's time to really buckle down!
My first order of business has been to add or confirm beneficiaries on all my accounts, which are most of my assets. I have actually already been working on that the last few weeks. Recently I added beneficiaries to my brokerage account. I was also working on finalizing the form for beneficiaries for basic life insurance at work, which they just automatically enrolled me, but then I did some digging & realized I could waive that coverage (and save the small deduction from each paycheck)--so that's done.
Once I finish adding beneficiaries, I need to update my will and figure out the medical stuff as well. And then turn to my parents...but one step at a time.
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We made out our Will in 1991. Since then both sets of parents have passed away. I am an only child and have no close relatives. Mr. Roadrunner has 2 sisters and one brother. One sister and one brother are estranged to us for years. We have not seen or spoken to them. As usual a stupid family squabble. Both are a bit 'off' and wouldn't leave them any money even if we were on speaking terms. One sister is pretty normal but doesn't need any money. She has gotten several inheritances over the last few years. Both she and her hub have well paying jobs and a huge house. She has a Mercedes. In our old will we left the two sisters and one brother a token amount and the rest was going to go to animal welfare. I would still like to do that but now would like the siblings off the will and no token amount given. It is really weird to give everything to a charity but I feel strong about it. Who knows if we will even have two cents left to give to animal welfare when the time comes. We have no children either.
Is anyone else here in the same boat with donating what they have to charity? Mr. Roadrunner has been after me for about 8 years to update our will and he has no answers on anything but does want his brother and sisters off.
When we did the Will, we had this nice lady attorney and she died a few years ago. Her son has taken over the practice and he is not my cup of tea. I asked for some help when my Mom died and I was doing the probate. I wanted his help with a few questions and of course would pay him and he never called me back. So, this jerk if off my list and will be looking for someone else.
There is just something about this whole thing that bugs me! Gotta get it done soon or Mr. Roadrunner is going to loose it!
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I don't think it is that odd to leave everything to charity. I know of two people (single, no kids) who left their estates to our church, for example.
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Apologies if this has been asked before, I haven't read through all of this thread. Is anyone using a company to act as an executor for their will? I have my brother at the moment, but I realize it's a lot of work and I'd rather pay someone.
Pros/Cons?
Reade
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Joining! This Friday will be the initial appointment with the attorney, so we'll see what comes out of that. Have not given this whole process much thought, really. Hoping the meeting will jump start everything.
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Apologies if this has been asked before, I haven't read through all of this thread. Is anyone using a company to act as an executor for their will? I have my brother at the moment, but I realize it's a lot of work and I'd rather pay someone.
Pros/Cons?
Reade
I haven’t but did contemplate it. And if I remember I thought my lawyer really just pointed to the ongoing, annual cost as the major con. But ask your lawyer.
We also are leaving all residual assets without a specified beneficiary to charity. That way we really don’t have to worry about updating the wills (unless you want to change the charity). Most of our assets are financial assets with beneficiaries and those are very easy to update when needed. Also, we thought this approach would lead to less possible wrangling of the will. However, the lawyer did put a clause in the will saying whoever contests it is “dead to us” and gets nothing from the estate.
Our approach does mean we have to be vigilant about keeping beneficiaries up to date, which we are.
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Working on my first official will/trust and hope to have it done in the next few weeks. I did it through my employer's EAP and it has been a slog as I started the process in January and the assigned lawyer is a bit flaky (which isn't unusual in my dealings with lawyers). I'm only paying $750, but want to wrap it up ASAP.
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@pdxvandal sorry you got the flaky lawyer. Best of luck to you getting you will wrapped up pronto.
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This is a great thread. My partner and I have been together for ten years, and I've been bugging him just to add beneficiaries to his investment accounts for like 4 years. Now that we just bought a house, I REALLY want us to get our shit together.
-ADD beneficiaries to investment accounts! (mostly him, but I'd better double check mine)
-Wills
-POAs
-maybe term life insurance policies... we don't have kids, but maybe enough to cover the house if something happens to one of us. Will think on this.
Have decided against term life insurance - our house is cheap enough that if need be, my partner could pay it off from our combined assets.
I reminded him yesterday (after I was reminded by this thread!) that he still needs to add beneficiaries to his accounts. He nodded at me, and opened his computer with purpose and began tapping the keys. I was surprised and wondered if he was going to start immediately, so I look over his shoulder and see that he has opened Twitter. Sigh. I will accomplish this task this year.
I also signed up for our company's Legal Plan and opened up the option to create the will, POA, etc. I've seen other people on the forum mention receiving a packet in the mail to fill out. But mine offered me two options: meet with someone in person, or fill out an online form and "Protect your Loved Ones in 15 Minutes"... so... I guess I'll try out the 15 minute version.
I am making my brother the executor of my will (he's a lawyer so he's used to the bureaucracy and doesn't mind phone calls. I should let him know though.) The piece that's got me paused now is deciding who is the best person to make decisions if I'm incapacitated. My partner would be fine, but he has some genetic hearing loss that impacts him when talking on the phone, so I want to think it through.
My "meet with someone in person" for my corporate benefit was more of a pick the best rated local person, call them, get a packet in the mail from them to fill out, send it & do a quick Zoom to be certain they understood everything that was on there, and then they drew everything up.
The only in person thing was to go over the drawn up paperwork and sign.
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I'm joining the gauntlet but right now I'm in planning mode rather than action mode. I would like to move toward action mode once I get a better idea of what my wishes actually are.
Does anyone have any recommended resources or wisdom for deciding who to leave assets to? Especially resources that could be at least a bit relevant to my situation. I'm also interested in resources for reading about what the various options are for healthcare directives, etc., so I can decide what I want to do for that. I would like to have a better idea of my wishes before I engage a lawyer. Because as it stands right now I think I could waste a lot of a lawyer's time thinking this through and that could be expensive.
My situation is as follows:
- No children.
- No living parents.
- Long term (six years) live-in significant other but unmarried. How do people decide when it make sense to be each other's beneficiaries outside of marriage?
- MANY siblings. So many that I was unable to add them as beneficiaries to some of my financial accounts because the number of beneficiaries was larger than they support. Also relevant: there is a large age gap between myself and my siblings so I'm statistically likely to outlive them. However, if I die before them I would love to leave them money.
- Huge quantity of nieces, nephews, great nieces, and great nephews. Struggling to figure out what I want to do for them. Or how to divide my money between my siblings and my siblings kids/grandkids
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I'm joining the gauntlet but right now I'm in planning mode rather than action mode. I would like to move toward action mode once I get a better idea of what my wishes actually are.
Does anyone have any recommended resources or wisdom for deciding who to leave assets to? Especially resources that could be at least a bit relevant to my situation. I'm also interested in resources for reading about what the various options are for healthcare directives, etc., so I can decide what I want to do for that. I would like to have a better idea of my wishes before I engage a lawyer. Because as it stands right now I think I could waste a lot of a lawyer's time thinking this through and that could be expensive.
My situation is as follows:
- No children.
- No living parents.
- Long term (six years) live-in significant other but unmarried. How do people decide when it make sense to be each other's beneficiaries outside of marriage?
- MANY siblings. So many that I was unable to add them as beneficiaries to some of my financial accounts because the number of beneficiaries was larger than they support. Also relevant: there is a large age gap between myself and my siblings so I'm statistically likely to outlive them. However, if I die before them I would love to leave them money.
- Huge quantity of nieces, nephews, great nieces, and great nephews. Struggling to figure out what I want to do for them. Or how to divide my money between my siblings and my siblings kids/grandkids
These are the same questions I've been thinking over. I have a long-term SO (unmarried) too, and each of us has a variety of nieces and nephews. My SO and I don't pool finances, but we do own a house together and have our own system for paying bills.
I am planning to split my regular investment account between all my nephews. I've told my partner that I want to leave some money to my friend's kids, and I will put that in my will. Currently, my SO is getting 50% and the other 50% goes to my mom/brothers. I might be changing that to leave my SO more. Most of my funds will be directed through account beneficiaries rather than a will.
My SO plans to leave some of his money to his nephew and niece, and I'm not sure if he plans to leave me the rest, but probably. It's his money, and it's up to him how he wants to leave it. (Though I want both of us to leave something for the other, because it would be difficult to start paying the mortgage otherwise for whoever is left.)
However, my bigger issue is more deciding who would be the best for an executor or getting Power of Attorney or POA for medical decisions. My SO despises phone calls and bureaucracy, so I decided that my brother would be the best executor. (My SO knows this, but I still need to tell my brother!)
I think my partner would be okay for POA in medical cases, but he does seem slightly alarmed when I ask him pointed questions about potential situations, so I am delaying while I continue to think about it. He certainly expects to go first, but it's important to make the plan in advance because I know it may go another way.
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Thank you @tygertygertyger for sharing your thoughts! I find it incredibly helpful to hear how others are thinking through this and how they are handling it. I like your approach of 50% to SO and 50% to other loved ones.
I forgot to mention that my partner and I also keep our finances completely separate (we have a system for how to divide up shared costs).
And gah! I can't believe I forgot I also have to decide on executor and POA, etc. Which brings up another question I have. I live in a different state than most of my loved ones. Would being in a different state make it difficult for someone to be POA/Executor or the like? I have two sisters who served as executors for loved ones' estates and I recall them making a lot of in-person visits to banks, etc-- I'm wondering if that could have been handled remotely instead?
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DH and I have scheduled a mini getaway to force ourselves to review our estate plans. Posting so I can find this thread later.
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I also need to get my sh!t together. I will follow up on this when hubby gets back to town soon.
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I'm joining the gauntlet but right now I'm in planning mode rather than action mode. I would like to move toward action mode once I get a better idea of what my wishes actually are.
Does anyone have any recommended resources or wisdom for deciding who to leave assets to? Especially resources that could be at least a bit relevant to my situation. I'm also interested in resources for reading about what the various options are for healthcare directives, etc., so I can decide what I want to do for that. I would like to have a better idea of my wishes before I engage a lawyer. Because as it stands right now I think I could waste a lot of a lawyer's time thinking this through and that could be expensive.
My situation is as follows:
- No children.
- No living parents.
- Long term (six years) live-in significant other but unmarried. How do people decide when it make sense to be each other's beneficiaries outside of marriage?
- MANY siblings. So many that I was unable to add them as beneficiaries to some of my financial accounts because the number of beneficiaries was larger than they support. Also relevant: there is a large age gap between myself and my siblings so I'm statistically likely to outlive them. However, if I die before them I would love to leave them money.
- Huge quantity of nieces, nephews, great nieces, and great nephews. Struggling to figure out what I want to do for them. Or how to divide my money between my siblings and my siblings kids/grandkids
We finally got around to just getting the will and trust done 5–6 years ago because I thought it was more important to get it DONE then to have the perfect vehicle. With that in place, I’ve been rethinking what to do. We also do not have children.
We have nice assets but when we die I don’t think we’ll have that much because I’m spending the money now and also end of life care costs a lot of money.
That said, here’s what we did 5 years ago:
Divided our estate into 11 equal portions. 7 of those portions go to our siblings and 2 friends, and it is equally given to DH’s siblings and my sibling. 4 of those portions go to organizations we like, are involved in, and regularly contribute to.
If we died today, they would all get a nice chunk of money. But I think by the time we are dead it will be more along the lines of “here’s a little bit of money and we were thinking of you.”
I already want to change though. I don’t want to change the organizations, but I’m rethinking at least one of the friends and then I’m not so sure that my siblings should really get a ton of money. In an ideal world I would much rather the money just go to all of the organizations we like and support.
But then there’s a sticky wicket of asking someone to administer our esstate if they’re not a beneficiary. I mean I know that they can earn money doing it and I would absolutely encourage anyone going through that work to take the money. But I have a feeling that the people we’ve named as administrators won’t take their fees. I guess I want to give a directive to them, they need to take their fees, I WANT them to take their fees!!!
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No minor children. Ain't my problem. Let them fight.
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My situation is as follows:
- No children.
- No living parents.
- Long term (six years) live-in significant other but unmarried. How do people decide when it make sense to be each other's beneficiaries outside of marriage?
- MANY siblings. So many that I was unable to add them as beneficiaries to some of my financial accounts because the number of beneficiaries was larger than they support. Also relevant: there is a large age gap between myself and my siblings so I'm statistically likely to outlive them. However, if I die before them I would love to leave them money.
- Huge quantity of nieces, nephews, great nieces, and great nephews. Struggling to figure out what I want to do for them. Or how to divide my money between my siblings and my siblings kids/grandkids
We finally got around to just getting the will and trust done 5–6 years ago because I thought it was more important to get it DONE then to have the perfect vehicle. With that in place, I’ve been rethinking what to do. We also do not have children.
I am coming around to think like Iris Lily. Also no children.
First priority is giving a possibly life-changing amount to Mom & Sis. If they split what I have now, they could each buy about half a house (in their current locations). This would be a great comfort to Mom who has a home loan but is living on a fixed income with little savings. She could likely eliminate the loan. And Sis would almost certainly buy a home, and be able to afford payments on the remainder since she's still working. If I don't need the stash to support me, then I'd really like to make their lives easier and more secure.
For a while, was thinking about also leaving college funds to the nieces and nephews. But how much? I don't want to deplete the estate putting them through college, and thereby pass up the opportunity to give what I can to my two closest people.
At the same time, which nieces and nephews? FTR, I don't technically have any; these kids are the children of my cousins. There are 5 who I see regularly and two more who I've spent some time with and find charming. There are 7 more who I barely know; however I know their parents quite well, even if I am not as close to them as my other cousins. So, what...like 14 x $5K? $10K? Not more than that, as it starts to materially affect how much Mom & Sis get. So what if I just say $xxx to be divided equally among the living offspring of these 9 people on the date of my death? Will it even amount to anything worthwhile by the time they are college age? What if they don't go to college? Who will administer these funds, to be sure they are spent on tuition? What if the 9 cousins (plus Sis) have more kids later on, do they just get shafted?
And then...what about my cousins on my MOM's side? Fewer in number, less prolific, and I am less close to them. But still...
So. For now, Mom & Sis will split it and as the stash grows I can make other decisions and amend the trust. The oldest will hit college in 5 years, a lot could change by then...
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My situation is as follows:
- No children.
- No living parents.
- Long term (six years) live-in significant other but unmarried. How do people decide when it make sense to be each other's beneficiaries outside of marriage?
- MANY siblings. So many that I was unable to add them as beneficiaries to some of my financial accounts because the number of beneficiaries was larger than they support. Also relevant: there is a large age gap between myself and my siblings so I'm statistically likely to outlive them. However, if I die before them I would love to leave them money.
- Huge quantity of nieces, nephews, great nieces, and great nephews. Struggling to figure out what I want to do for them. Or how to divide my money between my siblings and my siblings kids/grandkids
We finally got around to just getting the will and trust done 5–6 years ago because I thought it was more important to get it DONE then to have the perfect vehicle. With that in place, I’ve been rethinking what to do. We also do not have children.
I am coming around to think like Iris Lily. Also no children.
First priority is giving a possibly life-changing amount to Mom & Sis. If they split what I have now, they could each buy about half a house (in their current locations). This would be a great comfort to Mom who has a home loan but is living on a fixed income with little savings. She could likely eliminate the loan. And Sis would almost certainly buy a home, and be able to afford payments on the remainder since she's still working. If I don't need the stash to support me, then I'd really like to make their lives easier and more secure.
For a while, was thinking about also leaving college funds to the nieces and nephews. But how much? I don't want to deplete the estate putting them through college, and thereby pass up the opportunity to give what I can to my two closest people.
At the same time, which nieces and nephews? FTR, I don't technically have any; these kids are the children of my cousins. There are 5 who I see regularly and two more who I've spent some time with and find charming. There are 7 more who I barely know; however I know their parents quite well, even if I am not as close to them as my other cousins. So, what...like 14 x $5K? $10K? Not more than that, as it starts to materially affect how much Mom & Sis get. So what if I just say $xxx to be divided equally among the living offspring of these 9 people on the date of my death? Will it even amount to anything worthwhile by the time they are college age? What if they don't go to college? Who will administer these funds, to be sure they are spent on tuition? What if the 9 cousins (plus Sis) have more kids later on, do they just get shafted?
And then...what about my cousins on my MOM's side? Fewer in number, less prolific, and I am less close to them. But still...
So. For now, Mom & Sis will split it and as the stash grows I can make other decisions and amend the trust. The oldest will hit college in 5 years, a lot could change by then...
What makes our life easy is that every one of our siblings are doing fine financially. And their kids…MANY are doing super fine (engineers and physicians.)
I do not have nieces or nephews on my side, just one child of a cousin I am close to. And that girl will inherit millions, I am not joking. There is no reason for me to think about her in estate planning.
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Ah, see most of my family is lower-middle class, the demographic in which I grew up. There's a lot of programs out there that exclude this income bracket as being too high to get any aid, especially when it came to college, IME. Which is why I wanted to help the kids out, but it's so complicated!!! For the moment, I'm gambling that I'll still be around when that time comes and can decide to make gifts based on current factors, not try to figure it all out ahead of time/now.
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Posting to join.
We just had a baby and need to have our ducks in a row just in case. I called an attorney to jumpstart things but had an odd and unprofessional conversation with whoever answered the phone! So we’ll see how that goes.
We both have our beneficiaries set up to be the other and I created an “in case of emergency” document a couple years ago that I keep fairly up to date. I’ve showed it to my spouse numerous times and I think he’d find it eventually.
Things to do:
1. Will
2. Poa?
3. Life insurance. Do we want some? We have little debt but also not FI.
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Ah, see most of my family is lower-middle class, the demographic in which I grew up. There's a lot of programs out there that exclude this income bracket as being too high to get any aid, especially when it came to college, IME. Which is why I wanted to help the kids out, but it's so complicated!!! For the moment, I'm gambling that I'll still be around when that time comes and can decide to make gifts based on current factors, not try to figure it all out ahead of time/now.
What a great thread. PTF and also to say that one of my aunts (no kids of her own) has found a way to give to a plethora of nieces/nephews/grandnieces/grandnephews AND to forge more meaningful relationships with the brood while she is breathing on the planet. This won’t be everyone’s cup of tea, but maybe it will inspire you and help find the right thing for your family.
My aunt reimburses books and some supply expenses (up to some unknown $ amount) for her college-attending relatives. She has never felt tested or taken advantage of, so has never announced the limit. The only catch is, the young folk need to tell her what they are up to with classes and how much they have spent for the term. Everyone gets to share some stories and feel like family (which, given all the divorces/politics/occasional questionable choices/what-have-you) is actually saying quite a lot. Older siblings encourage the younger ones to “go talk to Auntie R!”
It’s probable that all those relatives won’t get large slices of money pie when my aunt passes, but they are getting clued into family lore & stories. And they are being supported and told that they matter during a time of life when things can be pretty turbulent. It’s a nice thing.
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Thank you, @Happy Little Chipmunk that is an excellent way to do it! I will remember this in 5 years when the oldest is "of age" :)
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Smallest update ever: sent email to the lawyer requesting a meeting. The decisions are made, just need to communicate them to the lawyer, maybe talk about ramifications a bit.
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PTF
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Saw the lawyer today.
Got things going for the will, POAs, Health Care Proxys, Homestead for house and a few other things.
The thing we want to do is to give our kids the assets BUT (that's a big but), do it in a periodic way. Both have proven to us that any amount of money given to them all at once will be gone in weeks. So a Revokable trust is what we're setting up. It isn't funded until the both of us are gone. We can give whatever we want....either percentage or dollar amount any period we want. So if we want each to get $500 a month, it does that. We can also give all that remains at an age (like 50, if we want).
We don't need life insurance. Attorney did make it clear that we did a really good job saving which DW needed to hear.
Still need to write down details and choose personal representative and trustee.
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Way to go @Car Jack . Sounds like you are really close to done.
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I attended a seminar put on by an Estate Attorney I know via our library. I'm attending another this week courtesy of Zoom. I'm counting them as doing...er, something responsible.
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It counts! That's how I started (seminar on the topic w/ attorneys) (way back in May).
Onward!
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Smallest update ever: sent email to the lawyer requesting a meeting. The decisions are made, just need to communicate them to the lawyer, maybe talk about ramifications a bit.
Update: almost done! Trust doc is in place, most assets have been re-titled or beneficiaries amended. Waiting on 2 institutions to do their part & have that show up in the online accounts, but anticipate not problems (just the wait).
Need to change the i-bond registration with Treasury Direct. Not looking forward to dealing with the government. [sigh] At least the amount is relatively small potatoes.
Anyone else done/almost done/in process/getting started on their estate plan?
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No but I do need to do this. It may be an unpopular choice but am thinking of just doing online reputable service vs. lawyers. Our estate is just the house/contents, (very old car) and the savings. AFAIK we are under an amount that would trigger complexities. And in any case doing it this way with willmaker or whatever is better than nothing, right?
A few years ago I did consult with a lawyer who pointed some stuff out which is now moot as one child is an adult and the other very close to it.
So the other thing was doing TOD for the house title to the kids, I think.
All this possibly in lieu of a trust at the moment because from what I can tell under a certain amount of money and with TOD for all accounts you don’t really need it?
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IANAL! But here's some info to get you started:
In the cover letter of my trust, the lawyer writes, "assuming your trust is fully funded and no more than $184,500 of your assets are outside of the trust...your heirs should be able to avoid probate altogether."
So that $184K number is pretty low. Not sure if a state* limit of some kind? But if there's more than that, it implies that the estate needs to be probated.
I *think* the difference between a POD and a trust is that even with the POD, if the estate is over the limit, it goes through probate (read: red tape and public record). Again, IANAL, this is my layperson impression. The cover letter also says that probate is costly. Something to look into.
Trust contains real estate & other assets. Non-trust assets are insurance and retirement accounts, which name the trust as primary (insurance) or secondary (retirement) beneficiary.
I will say, when Dad died, his insurance paid out to Sis & I fairly promptly, and we didn't do anything through the courts, aside from obtaining a copy of the death certificate.
EDIT: the lawyer said not to put the car in the trust. It is considered personal property. Lawyer set up a "pour-over will" which gives the "residue" of my estate, including personal property**, to the trust/trustee to distribute.
*California, for anyone reading who may not know
** "such as jewelry, clothing, household furniture and furnishings, automobiles, books, objects of art [etc]"
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Ah thanks for that! Well part of what is informing this opinion is in my parent’s death, all the TOD and joint accounts just went over to the other parent. Then they redid the trust they had with just that parent, which had no bearing for them and is more for eventually passing real estate and money to us, the kids.
But I will look into it because that is a low number. I was under the impression — and based on my parent’s recent experience — that the state really doesn’t know what all you have unless you die and no one is there to either joint own the account or be the transfer-on-death beneficiary. Without that, then yes, it goes to probate. But IANAL either! Thanks and way to go!
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Ah thanks for that! Well part of what is informing this opinion is in my parent’s death, all the TOD and joint accounts just went over to the other parent. Then they redid the trust they had with just that parent, which had no bearing for them and is more for eventually passing real estate and money to us, the kids.
But I will look into it because that is a low number. I was under the impression — and based on my parent’s recent experience — that the state really doesn’t know what all you have unless you die and no one is there to either joint own the account or be the transfer-on-death beneficiary. Without that, then yes, it goes to probate. But IANAL either! Thanks and way to go!
It might be different between spouses than between parents & children, since CA is a community property state. I have neither spouse nor children, so wanted to be sure things went the go the way I want them to. Your circumstances are different, so your solution will be different, too.
No, the state doesn't automatically know what you have when you die. But during probate, all that info is supposed to be provided to the court by the executor, and then ??? IDK what happens then, lol.