Author Topic: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club  (Read 788928 times)

talltexan

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3500 on: January 13, 2023, 02:08:06 PM »
My wife kept making claims that our christmas ornament collection was worth $10,000. As if she'd ever willingly sell any part of it.

Dicey

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3501 on: January 14, 2023, 07:07:25 AM »
My wife kept making claims that our christmas ornament collection was worth $10,000. As if she'd ever willingly sell any part of it.
OMG, this hurts just to read.

rmorris50

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3502 on: January 14, 2023, 08:44:54 AM »
My wife kept making claims that our christmas ornament collection was worth $10,000. As if she'd ever willingly sell any part of it.
OMG, this hurts just to read.
My husband has a ridiculous Disney wrist band collection. Prob a few thousand worth .


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nereo

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3503 on: January 14, 2023, 02:12:54 PM »
My wife kept making claims that our christmas ornament collection was worth $10,000. As if she'd ever willingly sell any part of it.
OMG, this hurts just to read.
My husband has a ridiculous Disney wrist band collection. Prob a few thousand worth .


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A whatÖ?  Like the wristbands for park entry? They are worth moneyÖ?
So confused

couponvan

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3504 on: January 14, 2023, 06:47:38 PM »
My wife kept making claims that our christmas ornament collection was worth $10,000. As if she'd ever willingly sell any part of it.
OMG, this hurts just to read.
I have a single ornament that goes for $200+, and I have probably 5-10 more that are over $100 each. Somehow certain brands of ornaments become collectible over time. I am also not selling them. Iím sure my kids will once I am gone. LOL

Dicey

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3505 on: January 14, 2023, 08:56:44 PM »
My wife kept making claims that our christmas ornament collection was worth $10,000. As if she'd ever willingly sell any part of it.
OMG, this hurts just to read.
I have a single ornament that goes for $200+, and I have probably 5-10 more that are over $100 each. Somehow certain brands of ornaments become collectible over time. I am also not selling them. Iím sure my kids will once I am gone. LOL
Yeah, but you have earned an asterisk, IMO. You're a little bit fancy and a lotta bit mustachian. I freely confer this status upon you because I have come to understand that living with your DH is a constant (or near-constant) source of spending pressure. Also, you mentioned what they go for, not what you actually paid for them. Very clever.

dragoncar

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3506 on: January 14, 2023, 11:37:45 PM »
You guys know I'm a believer in safe leverage, but refinancing a car loan seems...un-Mustachian. The value of our cars should be so small relative to everything else that it shouldn't move the needle.
But if you could save money by refinancing a car loan why wouldn't you?
I did one years ago to a local CU for one free month plus a $200 bonus.

I usually drop comprehensive/collision once the value of my car becomes non-catastrophic.  Dealing with the hassle of a lien title and insurance requirements definitely puts a damper on the reward of cash-out refinancing a car. 

dragoncar

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3507 on: January 14, 2023, 11:42:46 PM »
Does anyone let the value of their house influence whether you are prepaying? My outstanding mortgage is 60% of zillows purported MV. What if it crashed to the same amount as my mortgage and wiped out my equity? Any potential HELOC is gone. This whole recent conversation appears to have the assumption our housing value is stable/going up.


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When I had a new mortgage I definitely had no desire to prepay.  I figured if a huge crash came, the non-recourse mortgage (in CA) would give me some downside protection.  At this point it's almost unthinkable that any market crash could lead me to walk away.  I guess there's the possibility of a ridiculous earthquake that renders the home AND land completely worthless.

Still not paying down my mortgage, but the downside protection doesn't factor into that decision anymore

nereo

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3508 on: January 15, 2023, 10:22:50 AM »
You guys know I'm a believer in safe leverage, but refinancing a car loan seems...un-Mustachian. The value of our cars should be so small relative to everything else that it shouldn't move the needle.
But if you could save money by refinancing a car loan why wouldn't you?
I did one years ago to a local CU for one free month plus a $200 bonus.

I usually drop comprehensive/collision once the value of my car becomes non-catastrophic.  Dealing with the hassle of a lien title and insurance requirements definitely puts a damper on the reward of cash-out refinancing a car.

Weíve all seen what you do to cars / I donít think insurance covers that.

talltexan

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3509 on: January 16, 2023, 06:48:24 AM »
@sonofsven , my argument is more about size than about saving money (in fact, yesterday, I only filled up my tank a fraction of the way towards full because I thought the per gallon price was too high). You sound like you saved $600-ish from your refinance--and I will take that if it's in front of me on a table--but I imagine your target net worth is probably 1,500x of that or more.

RWD

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3510 on: January 16, 2023, 07:25:17 AM »
I refinanced a car loan in 2018 which saved me ~$5k in interest over payback period.

sonofsven

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3511 on: January 16, 2023, 07:50:49 AM »
@sonofsven , my argument is more about size than about saving money (in fact, yesterday, I only filled up my tank a fraction of the way towards full because I thought the per gallon price was too high). You sound like you saved $600-ish from your refinance--and I will take that if it's in front of me on a table--but I imagine your target net worth is probably 1,500x of that or more.
Gotcha. Sometimes I go all in to save money as i'm of fairly modest income, but my blind spot is that I should often instead make more money. But I do like the simplicity of staying home and puttering around more as I get older, instead of the $$ hustle.
I quit twice a month garbage pickup because the can was rarely full, so now I take my trash to the dump every few months. Also I would often forget which week my pickup was and if I put the can out on the wrong day they would charge me extra, so heck with 'em.

Back  on topic: still not paying extra on my 2.75% fixed mortgage.

talltexan

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3512 on: January 17, 2023, 08:38:09 AM »
@sonofsven , my argument is more about size than about saving money (in fact, yesterday, I only filled up my tank a fraction of the way towards full because I thought the per gallon price was too high). You sound like you saved $600-ish from your refinance--and I will take that if it's in front of me on a table--but I imagine your target net worth is probably 1,500x of that or more.

Back  on topic: still not paying extra on my 2.75% fixed mortgage.

Indeed, I am working at hard making sure I stay in love with my house (that has a similar rate mortgage, actually).

RWD

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3513 on: January 19, 2023, 02:07:23 PM »
I am considering the ramifications of paying off our mortgage with knowledge of a planned move. Ideally we would 1) buy (finance) a new house, 2) move into new house, 3) sell old house (and then settle old mortgage). From what I've read if we don't sell our old house first (or use a contingency or rent it) then the old mortgage payment will be used as part of our DTI calculations for the new mortgage. Because we have a 15-year mortgage the monthly amount is actually rather high relative to the remaining balance. Our payment is ~$1600/month on a $100k remaining balance.

If we were to take that $100k and put it towards a new house that would allow us to buy $100k more house. But if we paid off the old mortgage with that $100k our improved DTI ratio would allow borrowing an additional $200-250k (without tying up extra money in equity in the new house) at today's interest rates (if I'm understanding correctly). Then once the old house sells we could roll all the equity back into investments.

We have over ~$300k in liquid (and post-tax) savings/investments accounts. So dropping $100k on the current mortgage should not negatively impact our down payment funds. I can't imagine needing more than $200k for the down payment (20% on a $1M house, wow).

This is all still hypothetical right now. It may end up being moot and we don't buy an expensive enough house where DTI is a factor. But I want to be figure this stuff out ahead of time. Am I thinking about this correctly? Are there other strategies I should be considering?

cdub

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3514 on: January 19, 2023, 03:57:10 PM »
Lets do this the right way.  And spread the word about how great NOT paying down our mortgages are for our FIRE dates.

I have a 349k Left on my mortgage and i will be taking that the full 29 years left.  Who's with me!!

3.25% fixed for 30 years

I'm not. Ha. (I started the other thread) I want the peace of mind of having no debt whatsoever. To me that's worth any nickel and diming of interest rates.

nereo

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3515 on: January 19, 2023, 04:21:41 PM »
Lets do this the right way.  And spread the word about how great NOT paying down our mortgages are for our FIRE dates.

I have a 349k Left on my mortgage and i will be taking that the full 29 years left.  Who's with me!!

3.25% fixed for 30 years

I'm not. Ha. (I started the other thread) I want the peace of mind of having no debt whatsoever. To me that's worth any nickel and diming of interest rates.

Why on earth would you respond to a post made over five years ago to a member who is no longer here? It just seems like you are trying to start a needless confrontation.

Itís particularly odd given your most recent updates.

cdub

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3516 on: January 19, 2023, 04:27:08 PM »
Not really. I just thought it was neat that someone created a thread based on the opposite of my thread from 10 years ago. I haven't been on this site for over 5 years so I never saw the post. Not trying to start a confrontation. To each their own in how they want to handle their mortgage.

Dicey

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3517 on: January 19, 2023, 05:54:08 PM »
Not really. I just thought it was neat that someone created a thread based on the opposite of my thread from 10 years ago. I haven't been on this site for over 5 years so I never saw the post. Not trying to start a confrontation. To each their own in how they want to handle their mortgage.
Except it isn't really the opposite. Those other threads are for the sole purpose of celebrating a decision that others consider sub-optimal. No discussion is allowed there, only celebration. This thread was created for people who wanted to learn and understand before  making a decision. HUGE difference. We are a very tolerant group, but your comments aren't really helpful, primarily because this thread isn't what you think it is. However, you are welcome to stay and learn. Who knows? Maybe you'll get a mortgage on your next property. Either way, you'll gain a greater understanding of why "killing the mortgage" comes at a cost that many don't even realize they're paying until it's too late.

You're right about one thing, this is a really neat thread.

cdub

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3518 on: January 19, 2023, 06:09:51 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

nereo

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3519 on: January 19, 2023, 06:17:31 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.

By the River

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3520 on: January 20, 2023, 08:10:36 AM »
To sort of get this back on track:  Yesterday I was deep cleaning my office and found old papers that I needed to shred.  One was the folder for my 20 year 6.75% mortgage that I took out in 2002.  Saw that the last payment had been scheduled for October 2022.  I guess if I had stayed in that house, I would have been posting in the other thread (or probably refinanced).  I guess I will keep paying on my 2.75% mortgage for the next 28 years. 

As an aside; damn we used to use a lot of paper to get a mortgage, the appraisal, paychecks, bank accounts, and all of the other papers associated before ever getting to the 40 pages of mortgage fine print.   

ChpBstrd

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3521 on: January 20, 2023, 12:40:29 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.
I've roasted and facepunched lots of people who asked if they should buy expensive cars or if they should buy houses in HCOL areas or if they should buy rental RE with hundreds of dollars per month in negative cash flow. I've always been polite and I've experienced no bans or warnings, ever. I've gone against the grain in numerous discussions.

Give it a try if you don't believe me. There's no shortage of opportunities, just a shortage of people throwing facepunches.

nereo

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3522 on: January 20, 2023, 12:59:49 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.
I've roasted and facepunched lots of people who asked if they should buy expensive cars or if they should buy houses in HCOL areas or if they should buy rental RE with hundreds of dollars per month in negative cash flow. I've always been polite and I've experienced no bans or warnings, ever. I've gone against the grain in numerous discussions.

Give it a try if you don't believe me. There's no shortage of opportunities, just a shortage of people throwing facepunches.

Iím familiar and generally appreciate your approach on this forum. Doesnít change the fact that the overall tone has changed dramatically over the last decade

Dicey

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3523 on: January 20, 2023, 01:30:54 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.
I've roasted and facepunched lots of people who asked if they should buy expensive cars or if they should buy houses in HCOL areas or if they should buy rental RE with hundreds of dollars per month in negative cash flow. I've always been polite and I've experienced no bans or warnings, ever. I've gone against the grain in numerous discussions.

Give it a try if you don't believe me. There's no shortage of opportunities, just a shortage of people throwing facepunches.

Iím familiar and generally appreciate your approach on this forum. Doesnít change the fact that the overall tone has changed dramatically over the last decade
I have a theory that most of us who got in on the ground floor, so to speak, have discovered that this shit works, and does so far beyond our original expectations oe even our wildest ones, in many cases. Now our priorities have shifted.

talltexan

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3524 on: January 20, 2023, 01:59:09 PM »
@Dicey , I think by "this shit" you have the larger Mustachian movement in mind. We DPYM'ers rightly recognize we are a subgroup within the larger, anti-consumerist mustachian movement, however.

I think we are at a moment in time when market conditions have changed, and these may well change the DPYM strategy for people who have not yet secured a property. Anti-consumerism will certainly age well. I think you've experienced this with your current property you're renovating for sale, haven't you?

Dicey

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3525 on: January 20, 2023, 05:15:47 PM »
@Dicey , I think by "this shit" you have the larger Mustachian movement in mind. We DPYM'ers rightly recognize we are a subgroup within the larger, anti-consumerist mustachian movement, however.

I think we are at a moment in time when market conditions have changed, and these may well change the DPYM strategy for people who have not yet secured a property. Anti-consumerism will certainly age well. I think you've experienced this with your current property you're renovating for sale, haven't you?
Yes indeed, I was referring to the larger Mustachian movement, as you call it, because that's where a lot of these so-called changes are most apparent. This thread has been pretty consistent, IMO.

The property I am just finishing renovating is not for sale, it is for a family member. I'm not going to link it, but it's not too hard to find for those of you who love a good "Before & After" and can find the RE & LL section. If I was buying it to flip, which I wouldn't have, we would indeed be in deep doo-doo.

Psychstache

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3526 on: January 20, 2023, 05:41:52 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.
I've roasted and facepunched lots of people who asked if they should buy expensive cars or if they should buy houses in HCOL areas or if they should buy rental RE with hundreds of dollars per month in negative cash flow. I've always been polite and I've experienced no bans or warnings, ever. I've gone against the grain in numerous discussions.

Give it a try if you don't believe me. There's no shortage of opportunities, just a shortage of people throwing facepunches.

Yes but think about all the things our prodigal mustachian poster has missed.

The great do don't pay your mortgage schism
The Mr Orange separation journal trainwreck
The great $600 Vitamix debate of '18
The endless series of "is the market too high right now?" threads and the subsequent chronicling by RWD
The OMD forum split
The junioroldtimer market timing thread
The arrival of our top is in savior, the mighty thorstache

It has been quite a journey.

rpr

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3527 on: January 20, 2023, 06:14:20 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.
I've roasted and facepunched lots of people who asked if they should buy expensive cars or if they should buy houses in HCOL areas or if they should buy rental RE with hundreds of dollars per month in negative cash flow. I've always been polite and I've experienced no bans or warnings, ever. I've gone against the grain in numerous discussions.

Give it a try if you don't believe me. There's no shortage of opportunities, just a shortage of people throwing facepunches.


Yes but think about all the things our prodigal mustachian poster has missed.

The great do don't pay your mortgage schism
The Mr Orange separation journal trainwreck
The great $600 Vitamix debate of '18
The endless series of "is the market too high right now?" threads and the subsequent chronicling by RWD
The OMD forum split
The junioroldtimer market timing thread
The arrival of our top is in savior, the mighty thorstache

It has been quite a journey.

All hail the mighty thorstache :)

nereo

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3528 on: January 20, 2023, 07:34:29 PM »
I had temporarily forgotten about Mr Orange.  Man, that got weird.

RWD

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3529 on: January 20, 2023, 08:34:25 PM »
Yes but think about all the things our prodigal mustachian poster has missed.

The great do don't pay your mortgage schism
The Mr Orange separation journal trainwreck
The great $600 Vitamix debate of '18
The endless series of "is the market too high right now?" threads and the subsequent chronicling by RWD
The OMD forum split
The junioroldtimer market timing thread
The arrival of our top is in savior, the mighty thorstache

It has been quite a journey.
I am honored to have made this list.  =)

Dicey

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3530 on: January 20, 2023, 10:32:53 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.
I've roasted and facepunched lots of people who asked if they should buy expensive cars or if they should buy houses in HCOL areas or if they should buy rental RE with hundreds of dollars per month in negative cash flow. I've always been polite and I've experienced no bans or warnings, ever. I've gone against the grain in numerous discussions.

Give it a try if you don't believe me. There's no shortage of opportunities, just a shortage of people throwing facepunches.

Yes but think about all the things our prodigal mustachian poster has missed.

The great do don't pay your mortgage schism
The Mr Orange separation journal trainwreck
The great $600 Vitamix debate of '18
The endless series of "is the market too high right now?" threads and the subsequent chronicling by RWD
The OMD forum split
The junioroldtimer market timing thread
The arrival of our top is in savior, the mighty thorstache

It has been quite a journey.
Awesome recap, but you missed the most germane one: The legend who started this thread, boarder42, who got his badass self banned, reinstated, then banned again. I miss that dude, but I have it on good authority that he is enjoying his post-FIRE, post-MMM life very much. We have our fingers crossed that he will make it to the next Moab Meetup.

And just because I like throwing matches, I recently bought a Vitamix on sale at Costco for $299. It's still in the box, because is Bonus Kid is about to move out and he's taking the Ninja with him. Once that happens, I will be free to open the Vitamix box, which I'm staring at as I type. Do you think it will make my friends think better of me? Hahaha...my friends don't care. They're more likely to ask if I scored it at the thrift shop where I volunteer. I wish.

Dicey

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3531 on: January 20, 2023, 10:33:43 PM »
Yes but think about all the things our prodigal mustachian poster has missed.

The great do don't pay your mortgage schism
The Mr Orange separation journal trainwreck
The great $600 Vitamix debate of '18
The endless series of "is the market too high right now?" threads and the subsequent chronicling by RWD
The OMD forum split
The junioroldtimer market timing thread
The arrival of our top is in savior, the mighty thorstache

It has been quite a journey.
I am honored to have made this list.  =)
Your lists are legendary. You deserve to be on that list.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3532 on: January 22, 2023, 12:24:18 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.
I've roasted and facepunched lots of people who asked if they should buy expensive cars or if they should buy houses in HCOL areas or if they should buy rental RE with hundreds of dollars per month in negative cash flow. I've always been polite and I've experienced no bans or warnings, ever. I've gone against the grain in numerous discussions.

Give it a try if you don't believe me. There's no shortage of opportunities, just a shortage of people throwing facepunches.

Yes but think about all the things our prodigal mustachian poster has missed.

The great do don't pay your mortgage schism
The Mr Orange separation journal trainwreck
The great $600 Vitamix debate of '18
The endless series of "is the market too high right now?" threads and the subsequent chronicling by RWD
The OMD forum split
The junioroldtimer market timing thread
The arrival of our top is in savior, the mighty thorstache

It has been quite a journey.
Awesome recap, but you missed the most germane one: The legend who started this thread, boarder42, who got his badass self banned, reinstated, then banned again. I miss that dude, but I have it on good authority that he is enjoying his post-FIRE, post-MMM life very much. We have our fingers crossed that he will make it to the next Moab Meetup.

And just because I like throwing matches, I recently bought a Vitamix on sale at Costco for $299. It's still in the box, because is Bonus Kid is about to move out and he's taking the Ninja with him. Once that happens, I will be free to open the Vitamix box, which I'm staring at as I type. Do you think it will make my friends think better of me? Hahaha...my friends don't care. They're more likely to ask if I scored it at the thrift shop where I volunteer. I wish.

Dicey, I have a vitamix as well.  My Dad likes to buy his kids expensive kitchen or shop gadgets for Christmas.  This year he bought me a good drill since he hated my cheap black and decker one.

Dicey

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3533 on: January 22, 2023, 05:54:19 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.
I've roasted and facepunched lots of people who asked if they should buy expensive cars or if they should buy houses in HCOL areas or if they should buy rental RE with hundreds of dollars per month in negative cash flow. I've always been polite and I've experienced no bans or warnings, ever. I've gone against the grain in numerous discussions.

Give it a try if you don't believe me. There's no shortage of opportunities, just a shortage of people throwing facepunches.

Yes but think about all the things our prodigal mustachian poster has missed.

The great do don't pay your mortgage schism
The Mr Orange separation journal trainwreck
The great $600 Vitamix debate of '18
The endless series of "is the market too high right now?" threads and the subsequent chronicling by RWD
The OMD forum split
The junioroldtimer market timing thread
The arrival of our top is in savior, the mighty thorstache

It has been quite a journey.
Awesome recap, but you missed the most germane one: The legend who started this thread, boarder42, who got his badass self banned, reinstated, then banned again. I miss that dude, but I have it on good authority that he is enjoying his post-FIRE, post-MMM life very much. We have our fingers crossed that he will make it to the next Moab Meetup.

And just because I like throwing matches, I recently bought a Vitamix on sale at Costco for $299. It's still in the box, because is Bonus Kid is about to move out and he's taking the Ninja with him. Once that happens, I will be free to open the Vitamix box, which I'm staring at as I type. Do you think it will make my friends think better of me? Hahaha...my friends don't care. They're more likely to ask if I scored it at the thrift shop where I volunteer. I wish.

Dicey, I have a vitamix as well.  My Dad likes to buy his kids expensive kitchen or shop gadgets for Christmas.  This year he bought me a good drill since he hated my cheap black and decker one.
I like your Dad.

Weisass

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3534 on: January 22, 2023, 07:15:59 PM »
No discussion is allowed there, only celebration.

Wasn't aware no discussion was allowed there. Isn't that the entire point of forums? I started that thread and it certainly wasn't my intention for it to be a celebration only thread... however it is a ten year old thread and has probably changed a lot in my absence.

Yup, as has this forum.
I've roasted and facepunched lots of people who asked if they should buy expensive cars or if they should buy houses in HCOL areas or if they should buy rental RE with hundreds of dollars per month in negative cash flow. I've always been polite and I've experienced no bans or warnings, ever. I've gone against the grain in numerous discussions.

Give it a try if you don't believe me. There's no shortage of opportunities, just a shortage of people throwing facepunches.

Yes but think about all the things our prodigal mustachian poster has missed.

The great do don't pay your mortgage schism
The Mr Orange separation journal trainwreck
The great $600 Vitamix debate of '18
The endless series of "is the market too high right now?" threads and the subsequent chronicling by RWD
The OMD forum split
The junioroldtimer market timing thread
The arrival of our top is in savior, the mighty thorstache

It has been quite a journey.
Awesome recap, but you missed the most germane one: The legend who started this thread, boarder42, who got his badass self banned, reinstated, then banned again. I miss that dude, but I have it on good authority that he is enjoying his post-FIRE, post-MMM life very much. We have our fingers crossed that he will make it to the next Moab Meetup.

And just because I like throwing matches, I recently bought a Vitamix on sale at Costco for $299. It's still in the box, because is Bonus Kid is about to move out and he's taking the Ninja with him. Once that happens, I will be free to open the Vitamix box, which I'm staring at as I type. Do you think it will make my friends think better of me? Hahaha...my friends don't care. They're more likely to ask if I scored it at the thrift shop where I volunteer. I wish.

Dicey, I have a vitamix as well.  My Dad likes to buy his kids expensive kitchen or shop gadgets for Christmas.  This year he bought me a good drill since he hated my cheap black and decker one.

I, too, have a dad who gifts delightful splurges like a vitamix. Itís a great relationship 😉

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3535 on: January 23, 2023, 09:41:24 AM »
Yes but think about all the things our prodigal mustachian poster has missed.

The great do don't pay your mortgage schism
The Mr Orange separation journal trainwreck
The great $600 Vitamix debate of '18
The endless series of "is the market too high right now?" threads and the subsequent chronicling by RWD
The OMD forum split
The junioroldtimer market timing thread
The arrival of our top is in savior, the mighty thorstache

It has been quite a journey.

+ Westchester Frugal's thread actively seeking support for a country club membership and mansion

Hey, WF might actually fit in now. "Yeah, you hate the country club, and it costs $9000/yr, but it's your money. YOLO!"

Who is the poster who has/had weird, controlling, relationships with his girlfriends and women in general? He posted in Off Topic fairly recently.

RWD

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3536 on: January 23, 2023, 10:21:08 AM »
Who is the poster who has/had weird, controlling, relationships with his girlfriends and women in general? He posted in Off Topic fairly recently.
zoochadookdook?

bacchi

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3537 on: January 23, 2023, 10:32:58 AM »
Who is the poster who has/had weird, controlling, relationships with his girlfriends and women in general? He posted in Off Topic fairly recently.
zoochadookdook?

Yes, thank you.

talltexan

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3538 on: January 23, 2023, 10:58:19 AM »
Yeah, most of us probably don't want to be known by the mistakes we're making in our romantic relationships.

Dicey

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3539 on: January 23, 2023, 12:04:49 PM »
Yeah, most of us probably don't want to be known by the mistakes we're making in our romantic relationships.
Especially when we continue to make them and post about it.

talltexan

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3540 on: January 23, 2023, 02:01:41 PM »
Easy, there, I have a journal that is exclusively focused on my crypto-currency purchases.

Psychstache

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3541 on: January 23, 2023, 02:11:36 PM »
Easy, there, I have a journal that is exclusively focused on my crypto-currency purchases.

I don't think documenting an investment strategy in real time to see how it goes is the same thing.

Frankly, lots of people post threads and journals about relationships, but the ones we end up remembering are usually when the OP is lacking in self-awareness or completely obstinate in the face of consistent advice to try something different when the presumably came and posted to get advice about something that is not working for them. That's what makes the Mr. Orange's and zoochadookdook's and Wechester Frugal's of the world so memorable.

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3542 on: January 24, 2023, 10:54:01 AM »
I am considering the ramifications of paying off our mortgage with knowledge of a planned move. Ideally we would 1) buy (finance) a new house, 2) move into new house, 3) sell old house (and then settle old mortgage). From what I've read if we don't sell our old house first (or use a contingency or rent it) then the old mortgage payment will be used as part of our DTI calculations for the new mortgage. Because we have a 15-year mortgage the monthly amount is actually rather high relative to the remaining balance. Our payment is ~$1600/month on a $100k remaining balance.

If we were to take that $100k and put it towards a new house that would allow us to buy $100k more house. But if we paid off the old mortgage with that $100k our improved DTI ratio would allow borrowing an additional $200-250k (without tying up extra money in equity in the new house) at today's interest rates (if I'm understanding correctly). Then once the old house sells we could roll all the equity back into investments.

We have over ~$300k in liquid (and post-tax) savings/investments accounts. So dropping $100k on the current mortgage should not negatively impact our down payment funds. I can't imagine needing more than $200k for the down payment (20% on a $1M house, wow).

This is all still hypothetical right now. It may end up being moot and we don't buy an expensive enough house where DTI is a factor. But I want to be figure this stuff out ahead of time. Am I thinking about this correctly? Are there other strategies I should be considering?
I'm assuming no one saw this post of mine from last week? I'm also considering making a case study post, but it is maybe still too hypothetical.

joe189man

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3543 on: January 24, 2023, 11:50:26 AM »
I am considering the ramifications of paying off our mortgage with knowledge of a planned move. Ideally we would 1) buy (finance) a new house, 2) move into new house, 3) sell old house (and then settle old mortgage). From what I've read if we don't sell our old house first (or use a contingency or rent it) then the old mortgage payment will be used as part of our DTI calculations for the new mortgage. Because we have a 15-year mortgage the monthly amount is actually rather high relative to the remaining balance. Our payment is ~$1600/month on a $100k remaining balance.

If we were to take that $100k and put it towards a new house that would allow us to buy $100k more house. But if we paid off the old mortgage with that $100k our improved DTI ratio would allow borrowing an additional $200-250k (without tying up extra money in equity in the new house) at today's interest rates (if I'm understanding correctly). Then once the old house sells we could roll all the equity back into investments.

We have over ~$300k in liquid (and post-tax) savings/investments accounts. So dropping $100k on the current mortgage should not negatively impact our down payment funds. I can't imagine needing more than $200k for the down payment (20% on a $1M house, wow).

This is all still hypothetical right now. It may end up being moot and we don't buy an expensive enough house where DTI is a factor. But I want to be figure this stuff out ahead of time. Am I thinking about this correctly? Are there other strategies I should be considering?
I'm assuming no one saw this post of mine from last week? I'm also considering making a case study post, but it is maybe still too hypothetical.

i like the plan of paying off the existing mortgage, which frees up DTI space for the new mortgage. i also like the idea of you not being held ransom by having to sell your existing place to buy the new place, which is a tricky situation when buying properties. With $100k left on the existing mortgage and $300k available to you it all seems like a good plan.

dandarc

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3544 on: January 24, 2023, 11:59:23 AM »
I am considering the ramifications of paying off our mortgage with knowledge of a planned move. Ideally we would 1) buy (finance) a new house, 2) move into new house, 3) sell old house (and then settle old mortgage). From what I've read if we don't sell our old house first (or use a contingency or rent it) then the old mortgage payment will be used as part of our DTI calculations for the new mortgage. Because we have a 15-year mortgage the monthly amount is actually rather high relative to the remaining balance. Our payment is ~$1600/month on a $100k remaining balance.

If we were to take that $100k and put it towards a new house that would allow us to buy $100k more house. But if we paid off the old mortgage with that $100k our improved DTI ratio would allow borrowing an additional $200-250k (without tying up extra money in equity in the new house) at today's interest rates (if I'm understanding correctly). Then once the old house sells we could roll all the equity back into investments.

We have over ~$300k in liquid (and post-tax) savings/investments accounts. So dropping $100k on the current mortgage should not negatively impact our down payment funds. I can't imagine needing more than $200k for the down payment (20% on a $1M house, wow).

This is all still hypothetical right now. It may end up being moot and we don't buy an expensive enough house where DTI is a factor. But I want to be figure this stuff out ahead of time. Am I thinking about this correctly? Are there other strategies I should be considering?
I'm assuming no one saw this post of mine from last week? I'm also considering making a case study post, but it is maybe still too hypothetical.

i like the plan of paying off the existing mortgage, which frees up DTI space for the new mortgage. i also like the idea of you not being held ransom by having to sell your existing place to buy the new place, which is a tricky situation when buying properties. With $100k left on the existing mortgage and $300k available to you it all seems like a good plan.
I like the plan too, so long as it all happens relatively quickly once make that first move to pay off the mortgage. The risk would be that something happens and after you've paid off current house, plans change and you're looking at several years or more with that extra $100K languishing as home equity and maybe refinancing is difficult and if available seems pretty likely to be at worse terms than you had before. So if you do this this way, be sure to get it all done in a matter of a few months.

Telecaster

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3545 on: January 24, 2023, 12:32:55 PM »
I am considering the ramifications of paying off our mortgage with knowledge of a planned move. Ideally we would 1) buy (finance) a new house, 2) move into new house, 3) sell old house (and then settle old mortgage). From what I've read if we don't sell our old house first (or use a contingency or rent it) then the old mortgage payment will be used as part of our DTI calculations for the new mortgage. Because we have a 15-year mortgage the monthly amount is actually rather high relative to the remaining balance. Our payment is ~$1600/month on a $100k remaining balance.

If we were to take that $100k and put it towards a new house that would allow us to buy $100k more house. But if we paid off the old mortgage with that $100k our improved DTI ratio would allow borrowing an additional $200-250k (without tying up extra money in equity in the new house) at today's interest rates (if I'm understanding correctly). Then once the old house sells we could roll all the equity back into investments.

We have over ~$300k in liquid (and post-tax) savings/investments accounts. So dropping $100k on the current mortgage should not negatively impact our down payment funds. I can't imagine needing more than $200k for the down payment (20% on a $1M house, wow).

This is all still hypothetical right now. It may end up being moot and we don't buy an expensive enough house where DTI is a factor. But I want to be figure this stuff out ahead of time. Am I thinking about this correctly? Are there other strategies I should be considering?
I'm assuming no one saw this post of mine from last week? I'm also considering making a case study post, but it is maybe still too hypothetical.

Sorry I missed your post @RWD   I'd pose that question directly to your lender.   As I understand it, the old mortgage will be counted as part of your DTI, BUT your liquid assets also figure into the qualification process.  I'm not sure how that formula works, and it is probably lender specific.   Might be sixes, not sure.  In any event, the power of DPYM comes in the long term, so it probably won't matter much either way. 


RWD

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3546 on: January 24, 2023, 01:40:39 PM »
I am considering the ramifications of paying off our mortgage with knowledge of a planned move. Ideally we would 1) buy (finance) a new house, 2) move into new house, 3) sell old house (and then settle old mortgage). From what I've read if we don't sell our old house first (or use a contingency or rent it) then the old mortgage payment will be used as part of our DTI calculations for the new mortgage. Because we have a 15-year mortgage the monthly amount is actually rather high relative to the remaining balance. Our payment is ~$1600/month on a $100k remaining balance.

If we were to take that $100k and put it towards a new house that would allow us to buy $100k more house. But if we paid off the old mortgage with that $100k our improved DTI ratio would allow borrowing an additional $200-250k (without tying up extra money in equity in the new house) at today's interest rates (if I'm understanding correctly). Then once the old house sells we could roll all the equity back into investments.

We have over ~$300k in liquid (and post-tax) savings/investments accounts. So dropping $100k on the current mortgage should not negatively impact our down payment funds. I can't imagine needing more than $200k for the down payment (20% on a $1M house, wow).

This is all still hypothetical right now. It may end up being moot and we don't buy an expensive enough house where DTI is a factor. But I want to be figure this stuff out ahead of time. Am I thinking about this correctly? Are there other strategies I should be considering?
I'm assuming no one saw this post of mine from last week? I'm also considering making a case study post, but it is maybe still too hypothetical.

i like the plan of paying off the existing mortgage, which frees up DTI space for the new mortgage. i also like the idea of you not being held ransom by having to sell your existing place to buy the new place, which is a tricky situation when buying properties. With $100k left on the existing mortgage and $300k available to you it all seems like a good plan.
I like the plan too, so long as it all happens relatively quickly once make that first move to pay off the mortgage. The risk would be that something happens and after you've paid off current house, plans change and you're looking at several years or more with that extra $100K languishing as home equity and maybe refinancing is difficult and if available seems pretty likely to be at worse terms than you had before. So if you do this this way, be sure to get it all done in a matter of a few months.
Thanks for weighing in, both of you. I agree that this is pretty committal so I need to be sure we're moving first. On that front the potential move would be to an entirely different state, so it's not like we're just thinking of moving to a bigger house or nicer part of town. If this is happening it will be quite definitive with a definitive timeline.


Sorry I missed your post @RWD   I'd pose that question directly to your lender.   As I understand it, the old mortgage will be counted as part of your DTI, BUT your liquid assets also figure into the qualification process.  I'm not sure how that formula works, and it is probably lender specific.   Might be sixes, not sure.  In any event, the power of DPYM comes in the long term, so it probably won't matter much either way.
No problem, I know the forum can sometimes be a little wonky about actually jumping to the correct unread post in a thread. And then this thread went off on a tangent immediately after I posted.

Good idea on talking with the lender. In theory if they could take into account my liquid capital then that would simplify things greatly.

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3547 on: January 25, 2023, 07:56:21 AM »
I should also consider that selling extra funds from my brokerage would have tax implications, hmm...

talltexan

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3548 on: January 26, 2023, 07:07:26 AM »
three years ago I went through a move, and we wound up just submitting a written statement that we were planning to sell the prior house soon. You may wish to talk with your mortgage broker before you commit to a plan that would pay off the loan balance in case it doesn't actually matter. Having liquid cash during a move sure helped us.

RWD

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Re: DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club
« Reply #3549 on: January 26, 2023, 07:52:24 AM »
three years ago I went through a move, and we wound up just submitting a written statement that we were planning to sell the prior house soon. You may wish to talk with your mortgage broker before you commit to a plan that would pay off the loan balance in case it doesn't actually matter. Having liquid cash during a move sure helped us.
Thanks, that's very helpful. That would definitely be ideal. I am quite happy to not have all our capital tied up in house equity right now. So much more flexibility with not paying extra on the mortgage.