DONT Payoff your Mortgage Club

[talltexan]

So we are in the process of doing a cash out refinance and the appraisal came in $115k below what Zillow shows the value to be. I’ll be canceling that cashout.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can contest an appraisal, fyi.

Yes, but that’ll be hard to close the gap between Zillow and the appraisal. The market is so hot here in Charlotte that prices have risen 30% in the past year, but nothing has sold in the past six months in my neighborhood, that’s how tight supply is. Older homes are still getting cash offers off market and being torn down and rebuilt.

Also I’m not trading in my 2.5% for a 3% rate unless I can get a large amount of money out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I also live in Charlotte, and I became very skeptical of Zillow's estimates, particularly in the Northern half of the area.

[rmorris50]

So we are in the process of doing a cash out refinance and the appraisal came in $115k below what Zillow shows the value to be. I’ll be canceling that cashout.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can contest an appraisal, fyi.

Yes, but that’ll be hard to close the gap between Zillow and the appraisal. The market is so hot here in Charlotte that prices have risen 30% in the past year, but nothing has sold in the past six months in my neighborhood, that’s how tight supply is. Older homes are still getting cash offers off market and being torn down and rebuilt.

Also I’m not trading in my 2.5% for a 3% rate unless I can get a large amount of money out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I also live in Charlotte, and I became very skeptical of Zillow's estimates, particularly in the Northern half of the area.

Interestingly Trulia is extremely close to Zillow.

However the appraisal of $615 doesnt even fall into zillows range of 665k to 790k. The fact the two are so far off makes me uncomfortable to refinance and want to just stand pat.

Of course I will continue to not pay one extra dime towards my mortgage:-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ChpBstrd]

Can you sell to Zillow, if they think it's worth so much?

[sonofsven]

Just signed the paperwork for our cash out refi.  2.99% 30yr w/ $126k out.  Looking at investment properties now.  Torn between furnished-medium-term in FL vs a unfurnished-long-term in AL vs a furnished-short-term in CA.

~3 months ago, we had tesla solar+powerwalls w/ financing added to the home.  Apparently the loan does not show up until Tesla receives PTO from the energy provider, so the bank was none the wiser.  Luckily that has not yet happened yet, so we were able to complete this refi without any issue.  Solar loan is at 0.99% APR so it was a no brainer.

Next time we refi we may run into some issues though as it seems having a solar loan/lean on the home can block some refis.

As long as you're buying it and not leasing, the hassle should be minimal. Leased solar is a whole other can of worms.

Yes, purchase (via financing), would never lease ... yuck! 

And good to know - it came up often enough during that closing that it made me wonder.  Glad to hear that my next refi (with financed solar) should be mostly hassle free, assuming rates stay low!

Would still like to refinance once more, in an attempt to lock in a even lower rate due to not having the cash out portion...  Assuming of course we stay at ~60% LTV and rates stay sub 3%.  gulp.

I too want to refinance to drop to a lower rate after having done cash out, but if rates go up in the short term I'm not going to sweat it. The rate we refi'd at (3.125%) I was comfortable holding 30 years because it's 3.125% for cryin out loud. We bought this property 4 years ago at 4.75%. I think our PI payment now after pulling out 100k at current rates is about where it was back when we bought at the earlier rates, +/- $50.

I wanted to comment on this while I have a moment at a real keyboard. Posts like this make me nuts so jelly. FOMO is real, man, and we have it big time. DH and I paid cash for our house eight years ago and still we kick ourselves. It just gets worse as rates continue to drop and fellow mustachians post stuff like this. Okay, it's actually Fear That We Missed Out, but let's still call it FOMO.

You'd think it would be no big deal because we're FI/RE and statistically it's probably less of a big deal because of our advanced ages (Ha!), but dang it, we still feel like we're missing out! There's a lesson here. DPOYM Rules!!!

Congratulations to everyone who has locked in a cheap-ass, fixed rate mortgage on a reasonably priced (for your area) house! Your future selves are going to be ecstatic!

Here's a twist. I cashed out and refi'd. My plan was to refi later to drop the rates because cash out rates were higher.

I started paperwork last night and discovered I don't qualify to refi because my income isn't high enough because I went to 3/4 time last month. DW is self employed currently and I'm not ready to dive into that headache. If she ever goes back to FT W2 work

My reaction last night? Oh well. I got a sweet mortgage rate anyway.

I did three in the last year as self employed, two with lender fi, one with Better. All they wanted was a previous three months profit and loss statement (which was done by me, not an accountant, not notarized), three months of bank statements, two years taxes.
That was pretty much it. They each took less than a month, start to finish. One was cash out, two were rate/term.

[JJ-]

Just signed the paperwork for our cash out refi.  2.99% 30yr w/ $126k out.  Looking at investment properties now.  Torn between furnished-medium-term in FL vs a unfurnished-long-term in AL vs a furnished-short-term in CA.

~3 months ago, we had tesla solar+powerwalls w/ financing added to the home.  Apparently the loan does not show up until Tesla receives PTO from the energy provider, so the bank was none the wiser.  Luckily that has not yet happened yet, so we were able to complete this refi without any issue.  Solar loan is at 0.99% APR so it was a no brainer.

Next time we refi we may run into some issues though as it seems having a solar loan/lean on the home can block some refis.

As long as you're buying it and not leasing, the hassle should be minimal. Leased solar is a whole other can of worms.

Yes, purchase (via financing), would never lease ... yuck! 

And good to know - it came up often enough during that closing that it made me wonder.  Glad to hear that my next refi (with financed solar) should be mostly hassle free, assuming rates stay low!

Would still like to refinance once more, in an attempt to lock in a even lower rate due to not having the cash out portion...  Assuming of course we stay at ~60% LTV and rates stay sub 3%.  gulp.

I too want to refinance to drop to a lower rate after having done cash out, but if rates go up in the short term I'm not going to sweat it. The rate we refi'd at (3.125%) I was comfortable holding 30 years because it's 3.125% for cryin out loud. We bought this property 4 years ago at 4.75%. I think our PI payment now after pulling out 100k at current rates is about where it was back when we bought at the earlier rates, +/- $50.

I wanted to comment on this while I have a moment at a real keyboard. Posts like this make me nuts so jelly. FOMO is real, man, and we have it big time. DH and I paid cash for our house eight years ago and still we kick ourselves. It just gets worse as rates continue to drop and fellow mustachians post stuff like this. Okay, it's actually Fear That We Missed Out, but let's still call it FOMO.

You'd think it would be no big deal because we're FI/RE and statistically it's probably less of a big deal because of our advanced ages (Ha!), but dang it, we still feel like we're missing out! There's a lesson here. DPOYM Rules!!!

Congratulations to everyone who has locked in a cheap-ass, fixed rate mortgage on a reasonably priced (for your area) house! Your future selves are going to be ecstatic!

Here's a twist. I cashed out and refi'd. My plan was to refi later to drop the rates because cash out rates were higher.

I started paperwork last night and discovered I don't qualify to refi because my income isn't high enough because I went to 3/4 time last month. DW is self employed currently and I'm not ready to dive into that headache. If she ever goes back to FT W2 work

My reaction last night? Oh well. I got a sweet mortgage rate anyway.

I did three in the last year as self employed, two with lender fi, one with Better. All they wanted was a previous three months profit and loss statement (which was done by me, not an accountant, not notarized), three months of bank statements, two years taxes.
That was pretty much it. They each took less than a month, start to finish. One was cash out, two were rate/term.

Hmm. This I'll give a shot. Thanks

[JJ-]

I did three in the last year as self employed, two with lender fi, one with Better. All they wanted was a previous three months profit and loss statement (which was done by me, not an accountant, not notarized), three months of bank statements, two years taxes.
That was pretty much it. They each took less than a month, start to finish. One was cash out, two were rate/term.

Good news bad news. Bad news, DW has been self employed for 6 months and doesn't qualify for a co borrower. Good news? My refi showed up twice on the credit report, with both the original bank and then the one it was sold to. They were able to get me qualified by removing the first one that has been sold.

[dandarc]

I did three in the last year as self employed, two with lender fi, one with Better. All they wanted was a previous three months profit and loss statement (which was done by me, not an accountant, not notarized), three months of bank statements, two years taxes.
That was pretty much it. They each took less than a month, start to finish. One was cash out, two were rate/term.

Good news bad news. Bad news, DW has been self employed for 6 months and doesn't qualify for a co borrower. Good news? My refi showed up twice on the credit report, with both the original bank and then the one it was sold to. They were able to get me qualified by removing the first one that has been sold.

Yeah, I had 9 years self employed, then 10 months W2, then tried to refinance ~1 month after going back to self employed. Lender Fi scuttled the deal. Moral of this story is never work as an employee for anyone ever.

[Telecaster]

Yeah, I had 9 years self employed, then 10 months W2, then tried to refinance ~1 month after going back to self employed. Lender Fi scuttled the deal. Moral of this story is never work as an employee for anyone ever.

That's a bummer.  Usually they don't care unless you change industries. 

[dandarc]

Yeah, I had 9 years self employed, then 10 months W2, then tried to refinance ~1 month after going back to self employed. Lender Fi scuttled the deal. Moral of this story is never work as an employee for anyone ever.

That's a bummer.  Usually they don't care unless you change industries.

I also formed a new LLC for this latest iteration, so maybe that was it? I just wish they would have told me before the "gather all your paperwork" part - I thought I went out of my way to explain the whole situation.

[Holocene]

My refi with Better went through earlier this month and I just got the $2k Amex credit.  I came out at least $1.5k ahead after closing costs (yes, I got PAID to refinance), lowered my rate to 3%, and cashed out almost $30k. Overall a pretty good deal! Some of the cash out went to VTI and some is going into ibonds, currently paying ~5.33% for the next year.  I'm planning to quit my job next spring so want to keep a little more money in fixed income to live off of for the next few years.  This is allowing me to max out my mega backdoor Roth at 50% of my income which I was thinking I might need to taper down at some point.  I know at least part of the reason I'm able to FIRE is due to the decision to invest over paying off my low rate mortgage.  The awesome stock market returns in that time sure helped a lot too.  I know I got pretty lucky with my timing, but I knew the odds were in my favor.  That's the whole point of this thread!

[talltexan]

Larry Kotlikoff--who normally doesn't seem like a champion of the DPYM crowd--is a huge advocate of the I-bonds, i'm pleased to see someone taking advantage of them. All the best!

[Holocene]

Thanks!  I'm generally not a huge proponent of ibonds.  I bought maybe $5-10k around 10 years ago when the rates were decent and before I knew much about investing.  At some point when the ibond rates were <0, I redeemed the ibond and invested the proceeds in the market.  That was a good decision.  But now that I need a bit more fixed income and inflation is super high, they make sense again.  We'll see how long I hold onto them this time.  I doubt ibonds will beat mortgage rates over the long-term, but they make sense now and I'm fine to lock up the money for 1 year, so why not.

[GodlessCommie]

Same deal with Better.com and $2K Amex offer. Got paid to extend the mortgage to 30 years, with a sub-3% rate just 0.015% higher than the previous 15-year one. This looked like a deal too good to pass.

[dandarc]

Hmm - $2K would put a serious dent in the "recording fees". Looks like the offer goes through September next year - gotta remember this in roughly May when my new-ish LLC will be more seasoned.

Anyone know if Amex refunds excess credit balances? I have a card or two from them that we don't use much - I could fairly easily direct spend there, but I'd rather just have them cut me the check and not have to think about that.

[Dicey]

After more than a year of looking to re-fi the mortgages on our rentals, it looks like we will be signing papers on one of them this week. Thirty years at 3.375%, with about $2500 in closing costs. Not bad for an investment property. Major pisser is the charge of $566 NOT to have an escrow account, ack!

We're using Aim Loans. They have been relatively efficient, but here's a pro tip: Don't submit all your paperwork, think you're done, then go tour National Parks in Utah for two weeks, ack! We've had some adventures keeping this deal alive with no connectivity.  We sign tomorrow, and I'll post all the dirty details when we close, and why we're only doing one re-fi.

Thanks to everyone who's posted on the topic. We've learned a lot along the way.

[Mako52]

Would anyone NOT do this refi?

Currently a year into a 2.625 / 30yr with Lenderfi.  443k balance.
Looking at a 1.75 7yr ARM with Loan Depot.  (30 year amortization schedule) Total costs are ~2k so balance will become 445k.  Total interest savings over next 7 years are 25k.  We plan to move/downsize/retire at that time.

We decided to pass on this one.  There's a good chance we could be moving within a year, but with the timing of our kids' education we could still be here in 8 years.  If mortgage rates spike, they can go up 0.5% every six months to a max of 6.75 under the terms of the ARM.  Going from paying 1.75 to 6.75 would be awful when we can stay locked in at 2.625 for 29 more years if we want. 

[talltexan]

Sometimes things go in the opposite direction. I remember one time where the deep thinking about whether we wanted to refinance ultimately led us to realize we just needed to move.

[ChpBstrd]

Sometimes things go in the opposite direction. I remember one time where the deep thinking about whether we wanted to refinance ultimately led us to realize we just needed to move.

I did that too. I said "if I'm trying to save $ with a refi, why wouldn't I also move out of this house that's too big and expensive?"

Probably this is what is driving the housing market higher and higher, and pushing all the demand to high-end housing. Except non-mustachians are up-sizing their homes with the same mortgage payment rather than trying to reduce their expenses.

[Dicey]

Sometimes things go in the opposite direction. I remember one time where the deep thinking about whether we wanted to refinance ultimately led us to realize we just needed to move.

We always planned to sell our clown house and downsize. The market's crazy escalation since we bought in 2013 means a smaller house will now cost just as much or more, and the property taxes will be at least as high.

[dragoncar]

Sometimes things go in the opposite direction. I remember one time where the deep thinking about whether we wanted to refinance ultimately led us to realize we just needed to move.

We always planned to sell our clown house and downsize. The market's crazy escalation since we bought in 2013 means a smaller house will now cost just as much or more, and the property taxes will be at least as high.

Prop 13 strikes again.  At this point moving to a smaller house in the same area would ruin my WR

[Holocene]

Hmm - $2K would put a serious dent in the "recording fees". Looks like the offer goes through September next year - gotta remember this in roughly May when my new-ish LLC will be more seasoned.

Anyone know if Amex refunds excess credit balances? I have a card or two from them that we don't use much - I could fairly easily direct spend there, but I'd rather just have them cut me the check and not have to think about that.

I believe you can get a check for excess credit balances.  I just requested a check by following this link: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/customer-service/faq.credit-balance-refund.html.  There was also an option to transfer to another Amex account, but I just wanted the check.  Seems like it should work but will have to wait and see.

I thought the Better Amex deal was up this Sept, didn't realize it went until next Sept!  It's almost tempting to do another one.  The $2k certainly helps with the closing costs that usually make a refi harder to justify.  It looks like it's only once per 6 months though.  Who knows what rates will be like then.  And more importantly, that's around when I plan to FIRE so not sure I want to delay that to prove I have income.  I guess we'll see.

[dandarc]

Hmm - $2K would put a serious dent in the "recording fees". Looks like the offer goes through September next year - gotta remember this in roughly May when my new-ish LLC will be more seasoned.

Anyone know if Amex refunds excess credit balances? I have a card or two from them that we don't use much - I could fairly easily direct spend there, but I'd rather just have them cut me the check and not have to think about that.

I believe you can get a check for excess credit balances.  I just requested a check by following this link: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/customer-service/faq.credit-balance-refund.html.  There was also an option to transfer to another Amex account, but I just wanted the check.  Seems like it should work but will have to wait and see.

I thought the Better Amex deal was up this Sept, didn't realize it went until next Sept!  It's almost tempting to do another one.  The $2k certainly helps with the closing costs that usually make a refi harder to justify.  It looks like it's only once per 6 months though.  Who knows what rates will be like then.  And more importantly, that's around when I plan to FIRE so not sure I want to delay that to prove I have income.  I guess we'll see.

The offer page says this:

 Access the offer by:

i. Prior to 9/13/22 (the “Lock Rate-By Date”), create an account with Better Mortgage by either: clicking the “I’m purchasing” or “I’m refinancing” link on better.com/amex; or

ii. If you have already created an account with Better Mortgage, contact your Better Mortgage Loan consultant or call (877-688-3252) to request the offer prior to your loan closing; and

b. Lock your rate on a Better Mortgage loan application by the “Lock Rate-by-Date”, at which point an appraisal fee is charged; and

c. Qualify for and successfully close your mortgage loan with Better Mortgage by 12/17/22 (the “Close-by-Date”).

[Holocene]

The offer page says this:

 Access the offer by:

i. Prior to 9/13/22 (the “Lock Rate-By Date”), create an account with Better Mortgage by either: clicking the “I’m purchasing” or “I’m refinancing” link on better.com/amex; or

ii. If you have already created an account with Better Mortgage, contact your Better Mortgage Loan consultant or call (877-688-3252) to request the offer prior to your loan closing; and

b. Lock your rate on a Better Mortgage loan application by the “Lock Rate-by-Date”, at which point an appraisal fee is charged; and

c. Qualify for and successfully close your mortgage loan with Better Mortgage by 12/17/22 (the “Close-by-Date”).

Yes, I did see that you were correct on it going through Sept 2022.  I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong!  I did the offer at the end of August.  I remember seeing a Sept. date at the time and thought it was this year and the offer was about to end.  Either this is a new offer/they extended it or I misread it earlier which could very well be the case.  So thanks for pointing out that it goes until next year.  I could potentially benefit again.  It's definitely a great deal if Better is available in your state.  Their initial rate/quote was pretty crappy for me though so I'd recommend having them match another lender.  Getting them to match was super easy.

[Holocene]

@dandarc - Since you asked about Amex refunds, thought I'd follow up that I did get my Amex check this week.  So it didn't take too long (less than a week I think) and was super easy.

My Better mortgage got transferred to Mr. Cooper which seems to be pretty common.  The website seems decent and it was easy to set up autopay so should be fine.  I don't escrow which is the main place I think they could screw things up.  I might have to get kicked out of this club though.  I set up my autopay to do an extra $1.85 principal payment so my total payment would be an even $600.  If I keep it for 30 years, I'll pay it off a whole month or two early!  Blasphemy for this club!  But then again, I reset to a 30 year and owe slightly more than when I bought my house 9 years ago, so maybe I can stay :)

[Telecaster]

I might have to get kicked out of this club though.  I set up my autopay to do an extra $1.85 principal payment so my total payment would be an even $600.  If I keep it for 30 years, I'll pay it off a whole month or two early!  Blasphemy for this club!  But then again, I reset to a 30 year and owe slightly more than when I bought my house 9 years ago, so maybe I can stay :)

We'll allow it.  Just don't tell anyone else.  The kids might get ideas. 

[JJ-]

@dandarc - Since you asked about Amex refunds, thought I'd follow up that I did get my Amex check this week.  So it didn't take too long (less than a week I think) and was super easy.

My Better mortgage got transferred to Mr. Cooper which seems to be pretty common.  The website seems decent and it was easy to set up autopay so should be fine.  I don't escrow which is the main place I think they could screw things up.  I might have to get kicked out of this club though.  I set up my autopay to do an extra $1.85 principal payment so my total payment would be an even $600.  If I keep it for 30 years, I'll pay it off a whole month or two early!  Blasphemy for this club!  But then again, I reset to a 30 year and owe slightly more than when I bought my house 9 years ago, so maybe I can stay :)

I really need to move. My mortgage (PI) is ~$2k/mo.

Man. But I love the city.

[Holocene]

@Telecaster -  Thanks for allowing me to keep my membership :)  I'll try not to set any more bad examples like this!

@dandarc - Since you asked about Amex refunds, thought I'd follow up that I did get my Amex check this week.  So it didn't take too long (less than a week I think) and was super easy.

My Better mortgage got transferred to Mr. Cooper which seems to be pretty common.  The website seems decent and it was easy to set up autopay so should be fine.  I don't escrow which is the main place I think they could screw things up.  I might have to get kicked out of this club though.  I set up my autopay to do an extra $1.85 principal payment so my total payment would be an even $600.  If I keep it for 30 years, I'll pay it off a whole month or two early!  Blasphemy for this club!  But then again, I reset to a 30 year and owe slightly more than when I bought my house 9 years ago, so maybe I can stay :)

I really need to move. My mortgage (PI) is ~$2k/mo.

Man. But I love the city.

Ha, yeah I love my cheap payment.  I generally live on under $2k/mo so it's crazy for me to think of paying that for a mortgage alone.  I was down under $500 for my last re-fi but took out some cash this time.  I'm not even in a super LCOL area, just bought at the right time just after the housing crash.  It's a decent place to live, in the suburbs with 2 large cities nearby.  Summers are great and winters are long.  Family is nearby which is the main thing keeping me here at this point. I bought for around $175k and I don't think there's really any SFHs available in the metro area under $300k now.  House appreciation and stocks have treated me well over the last decade.  I could have cashed out a lot more, but with FIRE around the corner, I put priority on keeping my payment lower.  This way I have enough Roth contributions to pay my mortgage until I'm 59.5.  Then I can keep the rest of my spending to ~$25k and receive very cheap healthcare.  And probably donate quite a bit since I planned for worst case of no subsidies.

[talltexan]

I  passed the one year anniversary of our refinance, got the letter that they're changing our escrow amount slightly to accommodate changes in taxes and insurance. So I log into ING to update the payment amount, and my wife suggested that we might wish to pay a little extra.

I would rather eat shards of glass than pay even a cent extra on my mortgage.

Actually, that sounds a little extreme, maybe I should be grateful that's not the choice in front of me.

[nereo]

Maybe a bit extreme. Personally I’d pay a bit extra before to eat shards of glass, but hey to each their own.

If you are debating where to put your excess money each month then you are way ahead of about 2
/3rds of Americans

[dragoncar]

My wife suggested that we might wish to pay a little extra.

Domestic violence is wrong, so I guess divorce is the only option

[talltexan]

I'm not ready to follow this DPYM club all the way to where I'm claiming divorce isn't as expensive as trapping a few extra bucks in your home equity.

[dragoncar]

I'm not ready to follow this DPYM club all the way to where I'm claiming divorce isn't as expensive as trapping a few extra bucks in your home equity.

You lack… discipline

[Ftao93]

This wasn't on purpose for us, but this is how the journey has gone so far:

Bought at 325k/4.25%   Added solar, which was 17k.  Rolled that all into a new mortgage for 330k @3.375%.    Just refinanced (our house is now said to be worth 450k...) to a 20 year for 2.275%.    Our month to month only went up $150, since we got rid of PMI.  It will save us over $100k in interest.   It's possible that if I invested that extra few hundred per month we'd end up with lots more, or...not?   I just found it to be a nice balance, and that rate is insanely low.   When I retire (if we can't do it earlier), the house will be free and clear.   We should be able to invest at least $1500 most months from here on out.

My wife is 11 years younger than me, so that's a strong positive.

Not sure if I did things in the right order, but here we are!

[bryan995]

So has anyone re-financed after their cash-out-refi to get an even lower rate?  How long must we wait? :)

[JJ-]

So has anyone re-financed after their cash-out-refi to get an even lower rate?  How long must we wait? :)

I am going to refi in a couple weeks after a cash out a few months ago. I emailed better and asked what their wait period was and they said for a no cash out refi there is no waiting time.

[bryan995]

So has anyone re-financed after their cash-out-refi to get an even lower rate?  How long must we wait? :)

I am going to refi in a couple weeks after a cash out a few months ago. I emailed better and asked what their wait period was and they said for a no cash out refi there is no waiting time.

Sweet!  Are you finding lower rates?

I had a 2.99% with the cash out.  Would love to get back down into the 2.6-2.7 range ;)

[JJ-]

So has anyone re-financed after their cash-out-refi to get an even lower rate?  How long must we wait? :)

I am going to refi in a couple weeks after a cash out a few months ago. I emailed better and asked what their wait period was and they said for a no cash out refi there is no waiting time.

Sweet!  Are you finding lower rates?

I had a 2.99% with the cash out.  Would love to get back down into the 2.6-2.7 range ;)

3.125 with cash out 2.75 no cash out. These are with ~$2k credits

[bryan995]

Amazing, I will have to follow up with better then.  thanks!

[Dicey]

Pretty quiet around here lately. I guess not paying off the mortgage gets to be a non-event.

To stir things up: we finally refi'd two of our rentals after at least 18 months of searching. Went with AimLoans.com. Got 3.375% with relatively reasonable fees. Lowered the rates by 87.5 basis points on each one. I just received the final numbers on the first one and the second one closed yesterday. I'll post them later.

Aim was easy to work with, but each loan was a completely different experience. More deets to follow.

Oh, and the rental I've owned the longest (2003) is now mortgaged until 2051. Yay!

[JJ-]

Pretty quiet around here lately. I guess not paying off the mortgage gets to be a non-event.

To stir things up: we finally refi'd two of our rentals after at least 18 months of searching. Went with AimLoans.com. Got 3.375% with relatively reasonable fees. Lowered the rates by 87.5 basis points on each one. I just received the final numbers on the first one and the second one closed yesterday. I'll post them later.

Aim was easy to work with, but each loan was a completely different experience. More deets to follow.

Oh, and the rental I've owned the longest (2003) is now mortgaged until 2051. Yay!

I knocked 0.375 off my cash out refi rate and killed escrow just the other day. I wonder if all the activity is low since rates haven't moved much. I doubt we'll see more activity unless rates drop another good chunk again.

[dragoncar]

SUPER UPDATE

this month I also didn’t pay off my mortgage

STAY TUNED FOR NEXT MONTHS AMAZING EPISODE OF… DONT PAY OFF YOUR MORTGAGE AND ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPS

[nereo]

SUPER UPDATE

this month I also didn’t pay off my mortgage

STAY TUNED FOR NEXT MONTHS AMAZING EPISODE OF… DONT PAY OFF YOUR MORTGAGE AND ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPS

CAN’T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile…. My spouse said to me the other day “I’m even more stoked we have a mortgage now that inflation is back”

I shed a little tear of joy.

[Dicey]

SUPER UPDATE

this month I also didn’t pay off my mortgage

STAY TUNED FOR NEXT MONTHS AMAZING EPISODE OF… DONT PAY OFF YOUR MORTGAGE AND ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPS

CAN’T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile…. My spouse said to me the other day “I’m even more stoked we have a mortgage now that inflation is back”

I shed a little tear of joy.

I think I have something in my eye...

[Telecaster]

Meanwhile…. My spouse said to me the other day “I’m even more stoked we have a mortgage now that inflation is back”

I shed a little tear of joy.

Between inflation and surging markets, not paying off your mortgage never looked better.  Sure, we could--and eventually will--have a market crash. But even then not paying off your mortgage is a clear winner. 

[Radagast]

SUPER UPDATE

this month I also didn’t pay off my mortgage

STAY TUNED FOR NEXT MONTHS AMAZING EPISODE OF… DONT PAY OFF YOUR MORTGAGE AND ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPS

CAN’T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile…. My spouse said to me the other day “I’m even more stoked we have a mortgage now that inflation is back”

I shed a little tear of joy.

Yeah, paying extra on a 3% mortgage in a 2% inflationary world never made much sense to me. Paying extra on a 3% mortgage in a 5% inflationary world is the opposite of sense. If I wanted to waste money that badly I'd hang out at a casino slot machine so I could get free drinks while I was at it.

[sonofsven]

Pretty quiet around here lately. I guess not paying off the mortgage gets to be a non-event.

To stir things up: we finally refi'd two of our rentals after at least 18 months of searching. Went with AimLoans.com. Got 3.375% with relatively reasonable fees. Lowered the rates by 87.5 basis points on each one. I just received the final numbers on the first one and the second one closed yesterday. I'll post them later.

Aim was easy to work with, but each loan was a completely different experience. More deets to follow.

Oh, and the rental I've owned the longest (2003) is now mortgaged until 2051. Yay!

I'm just waiting for six months to be up so I can do another Better re-fi for the $2k Amex credit. That offer is valid through Dec of '22.
I had another re-fi lined up a few weeks ago but I didn't do it: 2.875 with approx $400 credit.

[talltexan]

Pretty quiet around here lately. I guess not paying off the mortgage gets to be a non-event.

To stir things up: we finally refi'd two of our rentals after at least 18 months of searching. Went with AimLoans.com. Got 3.375% with relatively reasonable fees. Lowered the rates by 87.5 basis points on each one. I just received the final numbers on the first one and the second one closed yesterday. I'll post them later.

Aim was easy to work with, but each loan was a completely different experience. More deets to follow.

Oh, and the rental I've owned the longest (2003) is now mortgaged until 2051. Yay!

I'm just waiting for six months to be up so I can do another Better re-fi for the $2k Amex credit. That offer is valid through Dec of '22.
I had another re-fi lined up a few weeks ago but I didn't do it: 2.875 with approx $400 credit.

I bought my first property in 2008. When I was signing the papers, that xx/xx/38 date looked like a typo.

Thirty years seems so long. It's incredible to contemplate that banks are willing to fix our interest rates until then.

[Telecaster]

<broken record>  Getting a 30-year fixed rate loan at or below the historical rate of inflation is the deal of a lifetime </broken record>

[bryan995]

<broken record>  Getting a 30-year fixed rate loan at or below the historical rate of inflation is the deal of a lifetime </broken record>

I am struggling with how far to take this...

You don't want to purposely overpay on a home, but then you also want to account for the role inflation and low-interest-rates will play over the 30 years.
At some point it may be far better to buy now for more, than to wait for prices to drop as rates increase...
I doubt rents will ever decrease substantially?

If one can find properties that at a minimum breaks-even, why now leverage up to the T!T$ and buy as many properties as the bank will allow.

Who cares what happens to the value of the home, let the rent flow in and offset your fixed expenses.  #guarenteedtowork #profitin30? #2008alloveragain?

[Telecaster]

<broken record>  Getting a 30-year fixed rate loan at or below the historical rate of inflation is the deal of a lifetime </broken record>

I am struggling with how far to take this...

You don't want to purposely overpay on a home, but then you also want to account for the role inflation and low-interest-rates will play over the 30 years.
At some point it may be far better to buy now for more, than to wait for prices to drop as rates increase...
I doubt rents will ever decrease substantially?

If one can find properties that at a minimum breaks-even, why now leverage up to the T!T$ and buy as many properties as the bank will allow.

Who cares what happens to the value of the home, let the rent flow in and offset your fixed expenses.  #guarenteedtowork #profitin30? #2008alloveragain?

I view housing as an expense, and like all expenses it is good to optimize them.   I wouldn't buy more house than I want or need or buy rental properties that don't cash flow.  But with today's rates I would also put down as small a downpayment as possible and never pay off the mortgage early.