Bundle Home & Auto - Live in Vehicle Challenge

[J.P. MoreGains]

Starting a live in vehicle challenge for anyone who lives in a vehicle to save money.

Can share tips and tricks here. Can also share our travels and stories on the way to FI!

So if anyone else is doing this feel free to share how you're living.

Vehicle - The House of MoreGains

I've been living in my Ford Escape since the end of May and I've adapted nicely. I'm on the minimalist side for sure and I don't need a lot of space. It has like 115,000 miles and is running well. Hoping to take it past 200,000 miles.

I made some cardboard window shades that I glued black construction paper to so I can black out the windows and sleep. I also have a curtain across by where the front seats are. Pretty simple "build". I just have a piece of plywood to flatten out where the rear seats go down and a mattress.

I'm big on hanging things. I hang bags and I got a sort of net thingy that hangs that holds clothes also.

I did this years ago for a summer to go to a bunch of national parks so I'm not new to this. I've adapted and I'm having fun. It's not that bad. I'm saving money and I get to travel more.

Routine & Savings

One big advantage I have is I have a kitchen at work and I keep some food in my cubicle. My focus is work so I'm a working vehicle dweller as opposed to the always on the go nomadic dweller. My work also has a locker room and a shower that I use although I'm likely going to get a gym membership soon.

I'm trying to work a lot to stay busy and just get into a good routine so I'm always busy.

I've already saved $2,600 on rent which has more than paid for a Mexico City trip and 2 Moab trips.

Bathroom

A picture of my bathroom which is what people always ask about. I have an emergency trash bag with kitty litter just in case. Obviously double bag it. It's rare that I have to use it - big thing is just getting into a routine where I have a place to go at night before I go to bed and a place to go after I wake up which is usually gym/work.

There is a pyschological factor with never having a home base to use the bathroom. Just one of the things about being a dirt bag. Just got to get used to going at Walmart, Grocery Store, Gas Station, Work, Gym, etc.

Winter

I'm prepping for Winter now. Just bought a warmer sleeping bag. Also checked out some books on polar explorers to help me realize how easy I have it. One exploration had their ship frozen into the ice near Antartica and they didn't see the sun for weeks in the polar winter and they had to survive by eating seal blubber and penguins. I get a warm shower every day I have a grocery store to go to. So I think winter will suck but I think I can do it.

Moab

Sharing a couple photos from a Moab trip - pretty easy location for me to get to for fun. Lots of rocks to look at including this monolith Titan.

[GilesMM]

This is awesome. Curious to know where you go and where you park the rig.

[J.P. MoreGains]

I'm mostly working a lot so mostly in the city. In the summer I go to the Sangre de Cristo mountain range fairly frequently and out to Moab when I have an extra day of. Sometimes go to other ranges.

Mostly park in the really nice and expensive neighborhoods with low car theft. I'd hate to get my car broken into when i'm sleeping in it.

Since I'm in an SUV I'm basically invisible so I can get away with parking in the nice neighborhoods without being too obvious (like living in a giant school bus with solar panels). I'm just another SUV parked on the road which is good to blend in.

[NotJen]

I'm curious about how you manage your mailing address/residency address. 

When I was nomadic for most of last year, what bothered me most was not having a permanent address for the important stuff.  I used a virtual mailbox service, which made getting my mail a snap - but that address couldn't be used as my residential address for several things.  I had to use my previous address as well as an AirB&B address, which made me feel ... like a creeper, or something.  And it wouldn't have worked for longer than a year.

[shadowmoss]

Having a permanent address while being a nomad is a hot topic in the van dweller world.  The 'easy' button is to join Escapees (SKE) in TX.  They run a mailbox program and were established for just this reason.  If you don't want a TX residency, there are places that have mailbox rentals that will give you what you need to get a license an d some that say they will be your residential address for more money.  Moon Mountain mail in Quartzsite, AZ is one.  I am not sure how that works, actually.  South Dakota used to have a plan where you pay for a month at an RV park and declare SD residency.  That may have changed recently also.

I live in my RV and use my summer RV park address as my residency and I have a PO box rental in town.  The only place that wanted my actual residence was for my voter registration.

[NotJen]

I live in my RV and use my summer RV park address as my residency and I have a PO box rental in town.  The only place that wanted my actual residence was for my voter registration.

I needed an actual residential address for drivers license, voter registration, health insurance, car insurance, and certain banks (I churn cards and accounts, some had no problem with a commercial address as my primary, some required a residential address as primary in addition to whatever mailing address).

I'd be fine with your setup - having an address you return to as your permanent address, with PO box or virtual mailbox for mailing address. 

I'm not planning to go fully nomadic, just curious about how the OP deals with this.  The place I claim residency does matter to me - and TX, SD, and AZ don't currently work.  If I needed to, I could use someone in my family as my perm address, the main issue would be healthcare, as they live about as far as possible from the places I would be living.

ETA: Also wanted to mention, since I was just trained on this today, that I needed a recognized permanent address to *EASILY* register to vote.  Homeless people can register to vote (in my state), they just need to do so in person if they have a non-standard address, to make sure that things get entered correctly.

[secondcor521]

In my county, homeless people can register to vote with the county courthouse as their address, and that's also where they go to vote on election day.

A long time ago I thought I read that you could have your mail sent to something like

  John Smith
  General Delivery
  City, State ZIP

And you could pick it up at the post office with ID.  I don't know if that still works.  I've heard of the commercial mailing services so maybe it doesn't any more.

[NotJen]

A long time ago I thought I read that you could have your mail sent to something like

  John Smith
  General Delivery
  City, State ZIP

And you could pick it up at the post office with ID.  I don't know if that still works.  I've heard of the commercial mailing services so maybe it doesn't any more.

Yes, general delivery still exists.  I know because I had the unfortunate opportunity to visit my local post office's special services location over multiple days recently, and saw people picking up their general delivery mail.  There is a limit to how long they will hold your mail (10-15 days?).

It didn't work for my situation, because I didn't want to switch over my address for EVERYTHING to GD multiple times.  A virtual mailbox is much more convenient, if you can afford it.  General delivery would work for special/infrequent mail you need while you don't have a good address.  And it wouldn't work as a residential address.

[J.P. MoreGains]

For address I just use my sisters address. So I'm lucky here. I'm also really helpful around the house with mowing the lawn and doing dishes so I have a place to hang out. I was doing this stuff before I moved into my car (which she doesn't know about). It's nice to have family close by and a place to hang out.

I've been kind of a nomad with living overseas before so I've used her address for awhile.

When I was younger I lived in Tijuana and kept an address at the UPS store in San Diego which was a real address I could use for everything.

Having my sister's house is great.

[spartana]

There are quite a few full time car-dwellers in Calif due to very high housing costs. Many live near their work, and some big companies actually provide parking lots for that, or stealth camp in neighborhoods like the OP. A lot of shift workers who work nights do this too. Buy an annual state beach pass, sleep and shower there in the daytime and go to their jobs at night. My sister thought about doing that when she was working graveyard shift for a big aerospace company but found an inexpensive shared housing situation worked better for her. She had a trucknwith a shell and had lived in it for about a year when on a cross country road trip so already had it set up for long term stealth camping.

I've never done it myself but do long road trips of a month or 2 while sleepibg in my car (well not mine since Im carless but usually a rental SUV) so for a minimalist like me I can see how it's doable. But I think I'd be more comfortable renting a room and being car free to reduce expenses. Probably safer too as a single woman. Plus what about your social life?  If you're dating and meet someone how do you describe your situation? Do you ever "bring a woman home"? Hey baby let's go to my place. I got four on the floor and dual hemis!

[Much Fishing to Do]

Wow, this seems very uncomfortable and a lot of work. 

I've definitely done the minimalist thing in my younger days, but there was still always a bathroom involved.  I guess the best one I pulled off was my last two years of graduate school when I lived in what was quite literally a walk in closet in an old house.  I paid them $100/mth (which would maybe be $200 today) and they said don't worry about utilities.  Given I had free range of the bathroom and kitchen it was pretty great.  I did once pay about the same amount to live in a (actually very new/nice) woodworking shop behind someone's house.  They did run electric out there (basically an extension cord....) and I could come inside for the bathroom.  Was not insulated, but was in the south so the Heat was a much bigger problem than the cold.

But not being able to lay down on a mattress or sit on my goodwill recliner seems pretty tiring to me.  Obviously I didn't have the ability to up and move around but I was pretty locked into the locations with school/work anyway.

[J.P. MoreGains]

Gonna answer a couple of these questions from a swanky software developer conference I'm at. I very rarely eat out so the free Olive Garden lunch has been awesome.

I definitely welcome anyone part time living in a car for trips, etc. I think it's a great way to save money driving around the country. Would be cool to hear their stories and some of their tips and tricks.

@spartana
I actually have experience with dating girls while living out of my car. Before the pandemic I did maybe 6 months living out of my suv going to national parks. When I would date I would just pick a bar to meet at near a hotel, if all went well I would just invite the girl to the hotel. Even when I've had an apartment I would do this and just pay for a hotel room. I think it is way better to invite a girl I just met to a hotel rather than my apartment for security reasons. It's a lot easier for a girl to feel safer going to a hotel where there are security cameras and you have to check in... as opposed to going to some guy's house she just met.

All this being said I'm not really even focused on dating right now. If some girl is into me so be it. I can open up that topic with the "I have some good news and bad news... good news is that I saved $108,000 last year. Bad news is I live out of my car".

@Much Fishing to Do
Prior to this I lived out of a boarding house where the rent was only $650. Landlords are good people but it is kind of a dump and there are bed bugs. The tenants are, well, interesting. But mostly the bed bugs bothered me. I fought them off for most of the time there but after awhile I just got sick of it. Had to share bathrooms and a kitchen. Someone took a dump on the toilet seat and floor and left it there. That sort of thing.

I'm all for alternative arrangements like this. But I also realize how little I need. It's not that bad sleeping in my car. I'm not going to do it forever but for right now it's okay. I'm just in a phase where I want to work all the time and save. I'm 45 and it's now or never. Will be worth it.

[spartana]

I'd be curious to see a cost break down of living in a vehicle vs. being carless and renting a room in a nice house (with your own bathroom LOL). I've been carless since before the pandemic and rent cars (cheaply) occasionally for longer road trips (I'm FIRE so don't work or commute and can walk or bike everywhere). If I didn't rent cars occasionally I would probably be saving quite a bit of money on car costs. Would it be enough of a savings to make renting a room a better option? Maybe or maybe not as it probably depends on your costs to own a car (fuel, maintenance, repairs, insurance, registration/licensing, cost to buy the vehicle, etc.

As for the long term road trips living out of a car it's pretty cheap. But I actually prefer to stay in regular campsites and set up a big tent, park the car (which I do sleep in too) and ride my bike or walk/hike most of the time so I do have camp ground fees which can be expensive. Fuel costs here in Calif are around $5/gal so that's a big cost too depending how far and how often I drive.

[J.P. MoreGains]

@spartana

The cost difference for me isn't that great. I went carless for like 1.5 months earlier in the year and biked everywhere. My total cost of living was around $1k with my $650 room. This was just a regular month, no international travel and no out of the normal expenses.

I imagine my costs will normally be say $600 - $700 a month out of my car. Car is paid off so that is a big factor. But... between the two I kind of prefer the car since I can go out into the mountains on weekends. Plus during the week I can get around and visit my sister and do things in the city. So the car offers a lot of lifestyle advantages. I used to live in San Diego and was carless for years and would bike everywhere but I'm not really wanting that as much now.

So rent still was my biggest expense that I got rid of even though it wasn't that big.

Got to say not having a bathroom isn't really that big of a deal since I have that basically planned out. In the evening I always have somewhere to go. And in the morning I can go when I shower at work in our locker room. So I've kind of adapted to that. But yes... that is a problem that needs to be planned for and solved.

[spartana]

Having a vehicle of any kind can definitely have advantages and does allow you to go further to cool places. It's one of the big reason I'm vehicle hunting right now myself. That and being able to haul some larger  "toys" I use regularly. Plus when you're injured (as I am now) being able to drive to your job or to Dr appt,  etc is really helpful. And of course doing stuff at night when you don't feel.safe biking, walking or taking public transit. So I can see why car dwelling would be preferable to just renting a room and being carless if trying to save money.

 I'm trying to think if anyone here  does it besides in an RV or camper van set up or who are travelling but can't think of anyone off the top of my head who does it while working full time. Buts it's a thing in many places. They've done news TV shows about professional working people living in their vehicle in places like Silicon Valley so they can avoid the high housing costs and save more money.

[J.P. MoreGains]

@spartana

Yep, I've seen some youtube videos about some of the silicon valley people doing this. Saw one guy in U-Haul style truck that turned it into a little apartment and he would just shower at his fancy office. I mean at a certain point housing is too expensive and why not just find some alternative. I am not alone in doing this for sure.

[Louise]

I don't think it's for me, but I find it fascinating. I'm curious how your sleep is at night. I think I'd be worried about people or someone looking in my windows and wouldn't get very restful sleep. It's great that your are saving so much money every year though! I do know someone who lived out of a truck, but they had their vehicle parked in a relative's driveway.

[J.P. MoreGains]

@Louise

I have a curtain to go across the front of the car behind the seats. On all of the back windows I have my windows tinted and I cut out cardboard the size of the windows and put it in to block it so no one can see. This works pretty well so I can also use a flashlight to read.

Fortunately I've been sleeping really well. Still adjusting to food prep which requires the most creativity

[spartana]

I just watch a PBS short student film (Fine Cuts) and one was about a young woman (20) living in her SUV and trying to finish college and find a job. I think it was called "California Closed". Anyways it made me think of this thread and I wondered if you would feel less comfortable doing this if you were a young woman (I'm assuming you're a guy but may be wrong). She was robbed and had some other set backs but otherwise seemed to do ok but I can imagine there are potential risks involved.

[J.P. MoreGains]

@spartana

Yes, I think there is more risk for females doing this solo. That being said I think it's common for females to do something like this and go to national parks and camp and stuff. In terms of probability I think the risk is low in general but I would imagine the risk is higher for females. Especially say the perceived risk and how you just feel at night going to sleep in a vehicle.

Camping in the wilderness or a national park in general is kind of risky in that you are vulnerable to some psycho out there. But the risk is generally low since most people are good people and the people who camp are all on the same team and out to have fun. But... it can feel a lot riskier than it really is if you were to think about some one coming up on your camp at night with a gun or something.

The added layer for females is the sex factor in that there are pervs out there.

I think risk can be mitigated a lot as well. My biggest concern is someone breaking into my car when I'm sleeping in it. So I park in the nicest neighborhood with the lowest rate of vehicle theft. I went out of town recently and parked right in front of the police station. I mean police are worried about criminals not some one just sleeping in their car.

Plus a lot of car theft is intentional and organized. They don't want to be seen or noticed or have some sort of conflict. They just want to steal a car and not be seen. So I don't think they would purposefully break into a car with someone in it. If they do there are a ton of expensive Mercedes Sprinters that are converted campers. It's obvious someone is living in those but I don't hear about those getting broken into often (I did hear about this in Moab though).

So overall low risk I would say statistically... but it can feel higher.

[J.P. MoreGains]

My "kitchen" in my cubicle.

Lot's of brown rice packets, trader joes curry packets, pasta, noodles, canned tuna, nuts, oats, etc.

Some day will talk about thermos cooking and share more.

My cubicle is kind of my storage unit.

[Zamboni]

^Looks good.

I admire that you are so organized about this and making it work for you. A spent a year doing "hot pot" and toaster oven cooking. It does work well for a single person.

As for the safety factor, I am very aware that my home is just as easy to break into as my car. For this reason I have alarm system signage and I also have a good barking watch dog. At a minimum she would alert me, and she is also pretty big, scary, and fast as a barracuda. She's no match for a gun, but the local "smash and grab" crew keeps notes on these things on their ipad that the update regularly. I'm pretty sure any house with a dog is just crossed off their list. As you noted with the car theft, some amount of lot of large crime is teams who have criteria and make plans. But with car living you would have to find somewhere not too hot for the dog to go during work . . . for nonworking nomads dogs work well.

How long do you think you will do this? Do you have a target date to move into less mobile shelter, or is this all very open ended?

[J.P. MoreGains]

Yep, I did a lot of hot pot cooking in the past in my apartment also. Can make some really tasty noodle and veggie dishes really easy.

Yeah for this I'm going to see how it goes. Been over 4 months and I feel like I'm just getting started. This winter will be the big test. If I can handle winter okay then I could see myself doing this for awhile.

I'm closing in on 250k... would be nice to do this until 500k if I could and then take a sabbatical or something.. But who knows that could be a long time if investments don't do well.

So it might be just as long as I can put up with it. For now I'm not any less happy than before. It's an interesting journey. But it will eventually get old I imagine. So ride it out until then.

I could always go back to the room I was renting in the boarding house. They were $650 - $700 but you get what you pay for. The entire place had bed bugs. It was dirty with weird people. So I'm glad to get out of there. But... if I get sick of this that is always an option.

[spartana]

@spartana

Yes, I think there is more risk for females doing this solo. That being said I think it's common for females to do something like this and go to national parks and camp and stuff. In terms of probability I think the risk is low in general but I would imagine the risk is higher for females. Especially say the perceived risk and how you just feel at night going to sleep in a vehicle.

Camping in the wilderness or a national park in general is kind of risky in that you are vulnerable to some psycho out there. But the risk is generally low since most people are good people and the people who camp are all on the same team and out to have fun. But... it can feel a lot riskier than it really is if you were to think about some one coming up on your camp at night with a gun or something.

The added layer for females is the sex factor in that there are pervs out there.

I think risk can be mitigated a lot as well. My biggest concern is someone breaking into my car when I'm sleeping in it. So I park in the nicest neighborhood with the lowest rate of vehicle theft. I went out of town recently and parked right in front of the police station. I mean police are worried about criminals not some one just sleeping in their car.

Plus a lot of car theft is intentional and organized. They don't want to be seen or noticed or have some sort of conflict. They just want to steal a car and not be seen. So I don't think they would purposefully break into a car with someone in it. If they do there are a ton of expensive Mercedes Sprinters that are converted campers. It's obvious someone is living in those but I don't hear about those getting broken into often (I did hear about this in Moab though).

So overall low risk I would say statistically... but it can feel higher.

Yeah that seems to be the case. Being able to remain unseen in your vehicle (or just when coming and going to your vehicle) can help big time to keep you safer and less likely to hassled by others.  And solo women can be seen as more of a target simply because we're perceived as physically weaker than a male. I do a lot of stuff solo and am very aware of my more vulnerable status if it's seen that I'm alone,  but generally feel safe despite having had some issues with men and attempts at harassment (or worse) , I think sleeping in a car on a nice family neighborhood  street is pretty safe.

[Dicey]

Have you read, "Walden on Wheels" by Ken Ilgunas? I followed his blog way back when. You might enjoy it.

[solon]

Some years back (5? 10?) there was a blog by a google employee who lived in a panel truck in the parking lot. I wonder if that guy's experience would be useful. Does anyone know what his blog site was, or what he's doing today?

[J.P. MoreGains]

@Dicey I have not read that blog but I'll check it out.

@solon Hmmm... I'd like to see that if anyone knows his blog. I saw an interview of a guy in Silicon Valley doing that. I wonder if it was him? I think it may have been. I saw the interview years ago on youtube and remembered it.

My locker set up at work - I have a mirror and hairclippers and I cut my hair at work lol. It's almost like a private locker room. I think only a few other people use it. This locker room is super helpful.

Other than that first difficult couple of days - felt kind of sick with a head cold. Not the end of the world or anything but it is nice to have an apartment to lay around at when you're sick.

Still going strong though and gearing up for winter.