Author Topic: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement  (Read 11332 times)

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What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« on: April 12, 2024, 09:42:40 AM »
I retired in 2021 (more or less) but 2023 was the first year I was single rather than HOH with a dependent (who had a tuition tax credit), and my taxes have shot up accordingly.

I have income from an inherited IRA RMD’s, interest (because I have a substantial CD ladder in brokerage acct’s - on a glide path but also kind of conservative with AA), dividends (mostly from index funds), a little misc. royalty income and LTCG’s. Totaled about $79k income gross and no tax breaks outside the standard deduction this year. And I hadn’t redone my ACA so had to pay back a few $k in ACA subsidies.

I guess I’m wondering what I’m missing?  3/4 of my NW is in taxable (sold CA home, now renting), and I’ve no earned income so can’t contribute to retirement accts. Haven’t bothered with HSA (have a regular HMO with co-pay insurance), seems like more of a PITA but maybe it’s worth it? Any other ideas for reducing my tax burden? Sorry if this is complainy-pants, just wondering if I’m missing something.

Thanks!

reeshau

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2024, 09:53:46 AM »
Get married.  :)

I am living primarily on LTCG, and enjoying the heck out of the 0% bracket.  I end up doing Roth conversions to balance out my ACA subsidies with tax deductions and credits.  I don't look forward to 59 1/2, when I will have to get back to the working person's game of income brackets.

Has your bill simply gone up?  Or have you gone up a bracket?  There isn't much you can do about the gross amount, but if you have gone over a bracket limit, you could try things like grouping your deductions to get greater than the standard deduction every other year.  Also, how long will you have your inherited IRA for?  Maybe you are at a high point, in tax terms.

You could also swap your CD's for high-yielding income stocks.  Those qualified dividends would put you back in the LTCG game.  JEPI is yielding 5.07%, with a .35% expense ratio.

terran

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2024, 10:44:57 AM »
You're not doing anything wrong, you're just rich, so you have lots of unavoidable income that you're taxed on.

You could consider whether taking larger distributions from the inherited IRA for a few years might be better -- particularly if it would improve the ACA subsidy situation enough to make the extra taxes now worth it.

You could transition the CDs to something that wouldn't be taxed or that would defer taxes. Some federal bonds defer taxes until the mature and many states don't tax them at all. Municipal bonds (or municipal bond funds) aren't taxed at the federal level and if they're from the state you live in often (always?) aren't taxed by the state.

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2024, 06:38:24 PM »
Thanks for your replies. Yeah, mustachian people problems! :)
I have 7 more years of inherited Ira RMD’s to go, and feel like spreading them evenly is the only palatable way. But you’re right, it’s the interest that gets me, when I slip into the 22% bracket. I think my simple plan will be to make sure my income-taxed-as-regular-income (I.e., not LTCG or dividends), doesn’t exceed the 12% bracket, which mostly means limiting the cd’s. I’ll look at JEPI.

secondcor521

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2024, 12:07:05 PM »
Bottom line, the government tends to do two things with taxes:  (a) raise income they need for operations, and (b) incentivize taxpayers to do what are viewed as socially good things.  Social goods, as you can see by looking at the tax code, are things like having children, owning a home, giving to charity, education, and getting a break on medical expenses.  People who don't do these things (or do them to a lesser degree) tend to pay more and they often notice it.  Sounds like you're one of these people; I am too.

Some specific comments:

1.  Depending on your dependent's situation, you can strategically look at their tax situation and your tax situation, decide whether it is more beneficial for you to claim them or not claim them, and then, if necessary (usually the support test is key - and keep in mind the support test is based on who paid for stuff, not who earned how much), arrange your financial affairs in 2024 so that the dependency outcome is what you want.  As a specific example, the AOTC is usually more valuable on the parent's return than the dependent's return.  But there are other impacts so you sort of have to do both tax returns both ways and see what comes out best for your situation.

2.  On the AOTC, make sure you claim it for the four most advantageous years.  Usually college students are in college for at least five applicable tax years.  In the years you don't claim AOTC, LLC can often be claimed instead and provide a small tax benefit.

3.  Paying back ACA subsidies has various FPL cliffs, so if you can arrange it and your AGI is above or below a repayment cliff, you can save a bunch of money.  For example, if you're under 400% FPL, your repayment is limited; if your AGI is 400% FPL + $1, your repayment is unlimited.  That could be thousands of dollars of difference.  To do this probably requires careful AGI planning in December.

4.  I personally think an HSA is worth it, but you'd have to switch your coverage.  If you're on ACA, there are probably HSA-qualified plans available to you.  I have a Fidelity HSA and it has several advantages I like:  (1) I can use my HSA as the destination for my 2% Fidelity cash back which gets me the full 2% and an HSA contribution deduction on my taxes, (2) Fidelity HSA has zero fees and lets me invest the full amount, (3) I can contribute even without earned income, and (4) I can contribute for the prior tax year through 4/15 of the following year like an IRA, which is useful for fine tuning my AGI if I go a bit over my AGI target.

5.  If you haven't already, check into your state's 529.  You might be able to get a state tax benefit for contributions up to a certain level.  Some states have restrictions on how soon you can take the money out to use it for tuition etc.; my state does not so in my state I could "wash":  contribute $X to the 529, then take $X out of the 529 the next day and use it to pay tuition, and get a state tax deduction on $X (in my case it would be 5.8% of up to $6K per year).

6.  Be sure you're taking any state tax benefit for income from US government obligations.  This requires looking at the detail section of your 1099-DIV from your taxable account, doing some multiplication and addition, then putting the result into your tax software (or on your state tax return if you're doing it by hand) in the appropriate place.

7.  As a general comment, just take a look at the 1040 and your entries.  See what hurts you and see what could help you that you might be willing to do.  The government's trying to encourage you financially to do certain things (like an HSA) - it's up to you to decide if you'd rather do the thing or pay the incremental taxes.  Also consider the tax implications of making any changes which might be a tax cost - the classic example is a person in actively managed mutual funds with high unrealized capital gains where switching involves selling which incurs capital gains taxes.  On that note, any CD early withdrawal penalty should show up on the 1099-INT and is an adjustment or deduction on your federal return.

dandarc

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2024, 01:43:02 PM »
Going from HoH to Single would put a lot of upward pressure on the tax bill. Agree on looking at HSA and ACA scenarios - might work well for you.

I'd also take a good look at moving the CD's to something that doesn't spit out so much ordinary income each year. An S&P 500 or total market fund will spit out dividends, but a large portion of that should be qualified and treated similarly to LTCG's. This is one way that a guarantee is quite expensive - if you can stomach some ups and downs that a stock fund will do, you'll likely get a higher return over the long term as well as lower your tax bill.

mistymoney

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2024, 01:53:44 PM »


1.  Depending on your dependent's situation, you can strategically look at their tax situation and your tax situation, decide whether it is more beneficial for you to claim them or not claim them, and then, if necessary (usually the support test is key - and keep in mind the support test is based on who paid for stuff, not who earned how much), arrange your financial affairs in 2024 so that the dependency outcome is what you want.  As a specific example, the AOTC is usually more valuable on the parent's return than the dependent's return.  But there are other impacts so you sort of have to do both tax returns both ways and see what comes out best for your situation.



Why would a newly taxably independent adult want to make this swap so their parent gets a bigger tax break? IMO it is really asking a lot of them.

mistymoney

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2024, 01:55:25 PM »
I retired in 2021 (more or less) but 2023 was the first year I was single rather than HOH with a dependent (who had a tuition tax credit), and my taxes have shot up accordingly.



This happened to me a few years back and it was very expensive!

secondcor521

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2024, 05:33:22 PM »


1.  Depending on your dependent's situation, you can strategically look at their tax situation and your tax situation, decide whether it is more beneficial for you to claim them or not claim them, and then, if necessary (usually the support test is key - and keep in mind the support test is based on who paid for stuff, not who earned how much), arrange your financial affairs in 2024 so that the dependency outcome is what you want.  As a specific example, the AOTC is usually more valuable on the parent's return than the dependent's return.  But there are other impacts so you sort of have to do both tax returns both ways and see what comes out best for your situation.



Why would a newly taxably independent adult want to make this swap so their parent gets a bigger tax break? IMO it is really asking a lot of them.

Two answers:

1.  My family frequently chooses the most beneficial tax arrangement for the family in aggregate.  We're like the Three Musketeers that way.

2.  In cases where it's clearly a sacrifice for the child, I often will compensate / reimburse the child for their increased tax bill.  That way the family is still ahead but the kid doesn't suffer.

Obviously YMMV.

Catbert

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2024, 11:44:29 AM »
Not to depress you more, however, remember that if Congress does nothing tax rates will go up after 2025.  25% will be the new 22% bracket when Trump tax cuts expire.  Personally I would take another look at your CD ladder.  As someone already pointed out you might want to consider Treasuries or Muni bonds or something for tax advantages.

How much of that income do you need to spend?

secondcor521

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Re: What am I missing - lowering taxes in retirement
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2024, 02:43:18 PM »
Not to depress you more, however, remember that if Congress does nothing tax rates will go up after 2025.  25% will be the new 22% bracket when Trump tax cuts expire.

And the brackets are smaller in size in terms of income range.  That is, they are more aggressive.

And the standard deduction drops but I think personal exemptions come back - good for some, bad for others, more people will have the thrill of itemizing on Schedule A again.