Author Topic: Lost investment information  (Read 1429 times)

almosthere

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Lost investment information
« on: December 19, 2023, 08:23:56 PM »
Hi all!
Back in 2006 - 2010 I  purchased stock (in a company I worked for) from an online brokerage firm (OptionsExpress). In 2011 it was acquired by Schwab. This summer the company whose stock I purchased filed for bankruptcy and is now being sold off. I want to use the loss against future taxes but Schwab tells me they have no record of what I actually purchased ($15k & 3k shares). Their records show approximately 30 shares with a value less than $1k. This was a retail purchase unaffiliated with my employer. During the GFC we employee's agreed to wage concessions in return for co. stock. During this period there were two reverse stock splits. Rendering my 3000 shares to 30. I imagine when I opened the OE account I had transferred money from my bank to OE to fund my trades. But the bank claims they can only go back 10 years, more likely 7, and Schwab says 7 as well. What will I need to do to prove to IRS on my filing that I actually paid the $15k amount?
I am out of state right now from where any records I have may beW. Even so, I think the best case scenario is that I have paper statements from my bank from that era, (can't remember when they went paperless?)  but they would likely just show a transfer out, not necessarily to who. Sorry if this is confusing.
Looking back now it's easy to see my mistakes in not keeping better records. And as much as I want to save the trees, I decided awhile back to opt out of paperless statements for just about everything. And if anyone is so inclined to pass judgment on my investment choices, this purchase was way before the GFC and seemed prudent at the time. After the SHTF it was just hanging on for a turn around or else taking the loss.
Hopefully there is a way to claim it? Thx.

reeshau

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Re: Lost investment information
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2023, 10:16:33 PM »
You might be SOL in the end.  It's not usually as important in these days of electronic everything, but your situation brings a good point of caution with mergers.  TDA customers beware!

I am pretty rigorous about keeping records for 7 years; both keeping thorough records, and purging them after the tax window.  One significant exception to this is paper copies of all trade confirmations in my taxable account.

I think your hunch on the bank statement could be a good one.  What form did the transfer take?  A wire might have more detailed information than just a check, but there still should be some info on the receiver.  And, did you use all of that money for this purchase, or just some?  (And, would you swear an affidavit to that effect?)

Brokerages will sometimes go deeper in their archives on an hourly research basis.  But that could add up to a significant percentage of this value.  We only have your summary available, but when they say they don't have it, did you specifically ask them to research the information?

SeattleCPA

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Re: Lost investment information
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2023, 05:28:43 AM »
Hi all!
Back in 2006 - 2010 I  purchased stock (in a company I worked for) from an online brokerage firm (OptionsExpress). In 2011 it was acquired by Schwab. This summer the company whose stock I purchased filed for bankruptcy and is now being sold off. I want to use the loss against future taxes but Schwab tells me they have no record of what I actually purchased ($15k & 3k shares). Their records show approximately 30 shares with a value less than $1k. This was a retail purchase unaffiliated with my employer. During the GFC we employee's agreed to wage concessions in return for co. stock. During this period there were two reverse stock splits. Rendering my 3000 shares to 30. I imagine when I opened the OE account I had transferred money from my bank to OE to fund my trades. But the bank claims they can only go back 10 years, more likely 7, and Schwab says 7 as well. What will I need to do to prove to IRS on my filing that I actually paid the $15k amount?
I am out of state right now from where any records I have may beW. Even so, I think the best case scenario is that I have paper statements from my bank from that era, (can't remember when they went paperless?)  but they would likely just show a transfer out, not necessarily to who. Sorry if this is confusing.
Looking back now it's easy to see my mistakes in not keeping better records. And as much as I want to save the trees, I decided awhile back to opt out of paperless statements for just about everything. And if anyone is so inclined to pass judgment on my investment choices, this purchase was way before the GFC and seemed prudent at the time. After the SHTF it was just hanging on for a turn around or else taking the loss.
Hopefully there is a way to claim it? Thx.

So two things: First you (and I) need to keep track of cost data until we sell the thing we bought in order to do return. (If we're concerned about statute of limitations, you want to add another three years at least. That's the standard time for statute of limitations to run for tax purposes.)

Second, you can use estimates in some of these situations. You'd probably want to be conservative. I.e., if you think the price you paid was $8-$9 a share, I'd use $8 as the cost basis estimate. Maybe even $7. And then save the source documents you used for the estimate.

almosthere

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Re: Lost investment information
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2023, 09:12:52 PM »
Reeshau. I'm preparing myself for SOL but hoping otherwise. I'll know in the near future once I get to those bank statements. Seems it's been no more than ten years since my bank went paperless so I might get lucky.  I recall making no more than 6 or 8 transactions and each time I funded almost the exact amount. Would def. swear to that. While I recall paying between $4. - $5 a share, I also remember joking after the second reverse split, the stock would have to rise to $487. a share just for me to break even! $487. × 30 = $14,610 which is the approximate price I paid for the 3K shares I bought. I'll update this once I access my records. Thanks again.

secondcor521

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Re: Lost investment information
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2023, 10:18:15 PM »
What will I need to do to prove to IRS on my filing that I actually paid the $15k amount?

<snip>

Hopefully there is a way to claim it? Thx.

Well, first you need to sell the stock.  Until then, nothing to report on your return (unless the shares are deemed worthless, which doesn't even usually happen, even in bankruptcy).

Once you sell the stock, Scwhab will send you a 1099-B in late January / early February that will show the sale.  That 1099-B will show (a) the correct cost basis, (b) an incorrect cost basis, or (c) an unknown cost basis.

If it's correct, just transfer the numbers to your Form 8949 and Schedule D.

If it's incorrect, report the numbers on your Form 8949 and Schedule D, and use an adjustment code to adjust the cost basis to what is correct.  I'm fairly certain that the adjustment code would be "B" and the adjustment amount would be a positive number equal to the difference between the correct basis and the reported basis ($14K based on the numbers you gave), but you can tell if it's right by looking at the resulting Schedule D (assuming you're using tax software).  The adjustment stuff goes in columns (f) and (g) on the 8949.

It's ideal to have all the necessary records and be perfect to the penny, but the IRS allows taxpayers who have fallen short of the ideal (we all do sometimes) to make reasonable estimates and reconstruct as best they can.

If it's unknown, you'll still report the sale and put in whatever you reconstruct the basis to be, similar to the previous paragraph.

The IRS will also always allow a basis of zero, but that will obviously result in you overpaying your taxes.  Take a reasonable approach, and make notes as to how you came up with your numbers, and collect whatever partial records you may have.

Most likely, the IRS will accept your return and not ask you any questions or audit you.  If they do audit you, you just go in and say "best effort, tried to be reasonable" and the IRS agent may very well go along with how you handled it.

reeshau

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Re: Lost investment information
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2023, 10:50:27 PM »
One other angle on estimating your purchase amount.  How closely do you know your purchase window?  Then, what was the range of the stock during that time?  If the stock only ranges between $4 and $5 during that time, you will have corralled it pretty well.  If the stock was quite volatile, or the time frame very long, then it won't be as convincing.

Even if the stock had dropped to $3 during that time, it's a lot better than $0.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Lost investment information
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2023, 01:45:19 AM »
As unconventional as it sounds, I'd write down your joke about breaking even and include it in your personal tax records, in case you're audited.  Your cost basis represents what you paid, and you break even when your stock rises back to what you paid.

You could also try estimating how much the stock cost in 2006-2010.  Note Yahoo Finance updates prior prices retroactively to reflect stock splits.  A stock that might have originally been $100/sh in 2007 might now show up as $50/sh in 2007 to reflect a stock split.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AAPL/history?p=AAPL