is there a list for taxes like the investment order? or is it inclusive of tax?

[mistymoney]

Wondering how to reduce taxes for 2024, but then again thinking mainly I can't and I did everything I could for 2023.

Max 401k and catchup
max HSA
Max SepIra for side biz
Taking home office deductions for side biz

those are the biggies, right?

Anything else I can plan for to reduce tax liability from W2 and 1099 income? I'm stuck this year, but employers "free" ADD and life policy adds on nearly 2k of taxable income. At 24% that is an additional 480 to pay taxes, and I guess 5% to state too, so 580..... I am leary to give it up, superstitious for sure (the minute you cancel it you die or get dismembered!) and it would provide over 600k to my estate in the event of an accidental death (where both the life ins and the ADD policies pay out).

But of course if I keep the policies, will never happen ><. Could maybe get something cheaper than what I pay in taxes on the market, but reality is I would not buy if not offered "for free" by employer.....so I guess that means I should cancel it next year. Stuck with it for this year anyway....

So - aside from that - anything I might be missing? Planning to go solar 24 or 25, so that is tax savings.

[reeshau]

Beyond that, I think you start to have to consider multi-year strategies, like doubling charitable contributions and even property taxes, to be able to itemize every other year, or maximize the impact of itemization.  This doesn't have to be as extreme as it sounds: one year, take care of both in January, then take care of the next year's early, in December.  That can minimize the unevenness for charities.

Also, if all your contributions are max and pretax, consider what your tax bracket will be in retirement, particularly after RMD's kick in.  You may be doing yourself a disservice, if you don't have a specific spend down / Roth conversion strategy in mind.

I have found a healthy dose of good ol' taxable investment account has performed very well in FIRE.  As MFJ, taking a standard deduction, I get nearly $100k at 0% LTCG--basically Roth-like.  (The party will end when I begin IRA withdrawals and take social security)  I do have some interest income, but I true up my nonrefundable credits and ACA subsidies with a partial Roth conversion every December to take the edge off RMD's.

[mistymoney]

Beyond that, I think you start to have to consider multi-year strategies, like doubling charitable contributions and even property taxes, to be able to itemize every other year, or maximize the impact of itemization.  This doesn't have to be as extreme as it sounds: one year, take care of both in January, then take care of the next year's early, in December.  That can minimize the unevenness for charities.

Also, if all your contributions are max and pretax, consider what your tax bracket will be in retirement, particularly after RMD's kick in.  You may be doing yourself a disservice, if you don't have a specific spend down / Roth conversion strategy in mind.

I have found a healthy dose of good ol' taxable investment account has performed very well in FIRE.  As MFJ, taking a standard deduction, I get nearly $100k at 0% LTCG--basically Roth-like.  (The party will end when I begin IRA withdrawals and take social security)  I do have some interest income, but I true up my nonrefundable credits and ACA subsidies with a partial Roth conversion every December to take the edge off RMD's.

Thanks - lots of good thoughts here!

Is there a list of what these are? the nonrefundable credits? I do itemize. Mortgage interest, state and local taxes, and charitable were all I have done in the past though.

The multiyear strategy I think is good for some people. it is beyond me to plan for that. At least currently.

I won't have much of a taxable account at all in retirement. Least based on where I am right now. Pre-tax everything is coming out of the 24% bracket and I don't think I'll be in 24% in retirement but I expect it will be variable - some years in 12% some in 22% (all based on current bracket and expected spending patterns, which - will see how that all plays out....) So I think once I start withdrawing from the 401k and rollovers for living on, that most of that money will be far below the 24% bracket - even if here and there I did enter that 24% bracket. But the past year or so all I can manage is maxing the retirements, HSA, and Ibonds, then I am tapped out! This year may not be able to do all that anyway. Not very hopeful about my raise and bonus this year, here is hoping I am pleasantly surprised!

[reeshau]

Nonrefundable tax credits:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tax-credits-for-individuals-what-they-mean-and-how-they-can-help-refunds

Also, keep an eye on what happens with the tax law and potential reversion to 2017 levels.  Today's 22% bracket is 2026's 25% bracket!  Of course, there is always uncertainty to playing the tax game, and the longer the timeframe, the more the uncertainty.  One way to address this is tax diversification.  When I FIRE'd, I had roughly 40% pre-tax, 30% post-tax, and 30% taxable.  With different tools in the toolbox, I am confident that I can adjust to changes in the tax law.

Here is where the brackets are headed, without legislative intervention:

The TCJA decreased the tax rates and changed the brackets to which those rates applied. Under the TCJA, the tax rates are 10%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, 35%, and 37%. On January 1, 2026, the rates return to their pre-TCJA amounts of 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33%, 35%, and 39.6%.

[mistymoney]

Nonrefundable tax credits:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tax-credits-for-individuals-what-they-mean-and-how-they-can-help-refunds

Also, keep an eye on what happens with the tax law and potential reversion to 2027 levels.  Today's 22% bracket is 2026's 25% bracket!  Of course, there is always uncertainty to playing the tax game, and the longer the timeframe, the more the uncertainty.  One way to address this is tax diversification.  When I FIRE'd, I had roughly 40% pre-tax, 30% post-tax, and 30% taxable.  With different tools in the toolbox, I am confident that I can adjust to changes in the tax law.

Here is where the brackets are headed, without legislative intervention:

The TCJA decreased the tax rates and changed the brackets to which those rates applied. Under the TCJA, the tax rates are 10%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, 35%, and 37%. On January 1, 2026, the rates return to their pre-TCJA amounts of 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33%, 35%, and 39.6%.

Thanks! Appreciate the info.

[MDM]

To answer the title question, the Investment Order is what it is based primarily on expected after-tax investment returns.  In other words, it is inclusive of tax.