Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking Part II: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig

[CanuckExpat]

Heads up data point regarding Fidelity/Elan:
I have been selling Tradelines with a Fidelity (Elan) CC pretty successfully for several months. The adds have to be done by phone. My latest add was going straightforward, then part way through the call the CSR said "Oh, I have to transfer you to a different department". I was transferred to someone who did the usual security verification (but much less friendly than normal CSR) who then proceeded to ask very pointed questions about my pattern of AU adding and removal. I must have satisfied him, because he went ahead to add the AU. Next time I went to make a purchase on this card, it was declined, I also noticed I couldn't log into my account online anymore. When I called in to check, I was told my account was under review, and someone would contact me. Nobody ever contacted me, but I can log back into my account now. I have temporarily frozen the card for AU sales, I imagine some time in the future I am going to get this card shut down.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Can confirm: Card Closed
Nice little letter for my collection

[katsiki]

Heads up data point regarding Fidelity/Elan:
I have been selling Tradelines with a Fidelity (Elan) CC pretty successfully for several months. The adds have to be done by phone. My latest add was going straightforward, then part way through the call the CSR said "Oh, I have to transfer you to a different department". I was transferred to someone who did the usual security verification (but much less friendly than normal CSR) who then proceeded to ask very pointed questions about my pattern of AU adding and removal. I must have satisfied him, because he went ahead to add the AU. Next time I went to make a purchase on this card, it was declined, I also noticed I couldn't log into my account online anymore. When I called in to check, I was told my account was under review, and someone would contact me. Nobody ever contacted me, but I can log back into my account now. I have temporarily frozen the card for AU sales, I imagine some time in the future I am going to get this card shut down.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Can confirm: Card Closed
Nice little letter for my collection

About how many AU spots had you sold on that card?

[katsiki]

Question for the Hive...

I just received my first AU with citizenship not of the US.  Have you had this?  Is it a concern?

[DK]

I've been getting my citi spots filled regularly - but with this last round of AUs I've had to get cleared by the fraud department. They just ask me to give them a text message and "verify" me.

Should I be concerned about these extra steps? Maybe let my 2 AU spots cool off? Or not worry about it?

the last one on my citi i tried they wanted to transfer me, and i got "scared" so didn't - is that all they had you do? i had them stop selling mine for a bit because it concerned me.

[lexde]

I've been getting my citi spots filled regularly - but with this last round of AUs I've had to get cleared by the fraud department. They just ask me to give them a text message and "verify" me.

Should I be concerned about these extra steps? Maybe let my 2 AU spots cool off? Or not worry about it?

the last one on my citi i tried they wanted to transfer me, and i got "scared" so didn't - is that all they had you do? i had them stop selling mine for a bit because it concerned me.

That’s all they did for mine. I couldn’t tell you if it was the same for your situation, though.

[lexde]

Question for the Hive...

I just received my first AU with citizenship not of the US.  Have you had this?  Is it a concern?

Is the mailing/primary address not in the US? Personally I wouldn’t risk that.

[katsiki]

Question for the Hive...

I just received my first AU with citizenship not of the US.  Have you had this?  Is it a concern?

Is the mailing/primary address not in the US? Personally I wouldn’t risk that.

US address

There is a number in SSN field as well but I assume it is not actually a SSN.  Everything is probably good and legal but I don't know if another country is a red flag for issuer.

Thanks for the reply.

[merula]

Non-US citizens can still have valid SSN if they are authorized to work in the US, or in some rare cases where they need one for a validated non-work reason.

I would bet that the number is their real SSN, and they're a resident alien.

[HBFIRE]

Does anyone actually activate the AU card?  I haven't so far, but sometimes wonder if this looks suspicious to the CC company.

[secondcor521]

Does anyone actually activate the AU card?  I haven't so far, but sometimes wonder if this looks suspicious to the CC company.

I always do.  But I do not use it to make a purchase (as New Company recommends).

[Car Jack]

Does anyone actually activate the AU card?  I haven't so far, but sometimes wonder if this looks suspicious to the CC company.

I used to and then make one small purchase on it at the gas pump.  I don't anymore as I have enough cards either in the tradeline system or about to age up to be in that I don't care if they cancel any card I'm using for TL's.

[katsiki]

Non-US citizens can still have valid SSN if they are authorized to work in the US, or in some rare cases where they need one for a validated non-work reason.

I would bet that the number is their real SSN, and they're a resident alien.

Thanks @merula 

That is my assumption as well.  I decided not to risk it since this issuer is known to shut you down after so many AU's already.

[topshot]

Does anyone actually activate the AU card?  I haven't so far, but sometimes wonder if this looks suspicious to the CC company.

I always do.  But I do not use it to make a purchase (as New Company recommends).

Guess I missed that recommendation. I never have activated one, but I wouldn't purchase with one unless it was online since it's obvious the AU doesn't live in your area (99.9% of the time at least).

[Car Jack]

I just added an AU with the old company on my Cap One.  Funny, the online form has the ss# but no place for address.  Wellalrightythen.  I think it also had only options on where to send the card.....not to have or not have the card sent.  For the $200 fee I'm getting for this tradeline, it's worth it to me to just go ahead and activate the card and use it for a couple bucks of gas.

[sw1tch]

So, I have a question for the group as I'm unsure of what to do here.  I have a removal task in the portal from a couple days ago but didn't receive a text message. Should I go ahead and remove the AU?

I'm assuming yes, but thought I'd ask anyway.

[secondcor521]

So, I have a question for the group as I'm unsure of what to do here.  I have a removal task in the portal from a couple days ago but didn't receive a text message. Should I go ahead and remove the AU?

I'm assuming yes, but thought I'd ask anyway.

I would remove the AU *if* the "Remove On" date has passed.  If the "Remove On" date is in the future, I would wait until that date and remove them after that date.

I have two remove tasks in the portal, but the date is something like 1/17/19, so I'm waiting on those for now.

[CanuckExpat]

Heads up data point regarding Fidelity/Elan:
I have been selling Tradelines with a Fidelity (Elan) CC pretty successfully for several months. The adds have to be done by phone. My latest add was going straightforward, then part way through the call the CSR said "Oh, I have to transfer you to a different department". I was transferred to someone who did the usual security verification (but much less friendly than normal CSR) who then proceeded to ask very pointed questions about my pattern of AU adding and removal. I must have satisfied him, because he went ahead to add the AU. Next time I went to make a purchase on this card, it was declined, I also noticed I couldn't log into my account online anymore. When I called in to check, I was told my account was under review, and someone would contact me. Nobody ever contacted me, but I can log back into my account now. I have temporarily frozen the card for AU sales, I imagine some time in the future I am going to get this card shut down.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Can confirm: Card Closed
Nice little letter for my collection

About how many AU spots had you sold on that card?

About 10

[HipGnosis]

So, I have a question for the group as I'm unsure of what to do here.  I have a removal task in the portal from a couple days ago but didn't receive a text message. Should I go ahead and remove the AU?

I'm assuming yes, but thought I'd ask anyway.

I would remove the AU *if* the "Remove On" date has passed.  If the "Remove On" date is in the future, I would wait until that date and remove them after that date.

I have two remove tasks in the portal, but the date is something like 1/17/19, so I'm waiting on those for now.

I had the same situation - I removed the AU and got an Email from the Co. a few days later that I did it prematurely and therefore would not get paid for the AU add.   I Emailed them back that their portal is confusing and they should look into improving it.

[katsiki]

Heads up data point regarding Fidelity/Elan:
I have been selling Tradelines with a Fidelity (Elan) CC pretty successfully for several months. The adds have to be done by phone. My latest add was going straightforward, then part way through the call the CSR said "Oh, I have to transfer you to a different department". I was transferred to someone who did the usual security verification (but much less friendly than normal CSR) who then proceeded to ask very pointed questions about my pattern of AU adding and removal. I must have satisfied him, because he went ahead to add the AU. Next time I went to make a purchase on this card, it was declined, I also noticed I couldn't log into my account online anymore. When I called in to check, I was told my account was under review, and someone would contact me. Nobody ever contacted me, but I can log back into my account now. I have temporarily frozen the card for AU sales, I imagine some time in the future I am going to get this card shut down.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Can confirm: Card Closed
Nice little letter for my collection

About how many AU spots had you sold on that card?

About 10

Thanks for the reply, @CanuckExpat

Hopefully, I can get a few more before mine is shut down.

By the way, for anyone interested, I have been removing AUs from Elan via secure message.  It takes about 24 hours but works well.

[MasterStache]

Anyone have any issues with Citi regarding reading secure messages? For instance if I request to remove an authorized user I can read their response to confirm he/she was removed. However if I send a SM wanting to include the SS with a recent AU add I did online, I cannot read their response. It errors out and boots me off Citi's website. Could be something with my browser settings perhaps?

[ditkanate]

Anyone have any issues with Citi regarding reading secure messages? For instance if I request to remove an authorized user I can read their response to confirm he/she was removed. However if I send a SM wanting to include the SS with a recent AU add I did online, I cannot read their response. It errors out and boots me off Citi's website. Could be something with my browser settings perhaps?

This exact thing happens to me also.  I'm wondering if it has to do with the SS# being protected information or something. 

[ducky19]

I think it's just their website - try it in an incognito window.

[MasterStache]

I think it's just their website - try it in an incognito window.

Tried that, still didn't work. Also cleared browsing history, cookies, etc and still throws an error. Even tried a different browser. My last AU didn't post even though I went through the same exact process of adding AU on their website and then sending a secure message to include the SS# with the AU. Trying to avoid calling in at all cost as it seems that is not even fool proof.

[katsiki]

It is probably a filter for PII.  I noticed that Chase filters out location details on secure messages.  Citi is probably doing something similar for anything it deems protected.

[MasterStache]

It is probably a filter for PII.  I noticed that Chase filters out location details on secure messages.  Citi is probably doing something similar for anything it deems protected.

I figured that was the case but wondered if there was a way around that so I could see their response to my messages. At this point I am kind of guessing they are successfully attaching the SS# to the AU. 

[Pizzabrewer]

So I read this article and then thought about selling my tradelines.

Figured out aI could probably make at least $500 per month according to a quote I received from splendindcredit.com. 

On the other hand I could buy tradelines and there are wildly varying prices out there but one quote I saw was for $1000 for a 25k line. 

I am personally unfortunately in a situation where I have a lot of debt due to some poor decisions made starting a business with the wrong partners so I'm in the market for refinancing unsercured debt at a lower rate. 

My wife and I make an excellent income we both work for Tesla for 4 and 5 years respectively. 

Currently we pull in $212k per year together. 

We both have a long history of 100% on time payment with the exception of one delinquent account on my wife's credit from a credit union checking  account that went negative because of a silly fee. 

At the moment we pay around $1600 on credit card interest per month at about 16.69% interest apr. 

That said we do have about $32k in available credit on our cards, having just paid off over $26k in cash over the last 30 days. 

I could use some help in the utilization department mainly everything else on my personal individual credit is 100% clean (my wife's sily delinquency on the checking account notwithstanding which I think is technically classified as a "late payment" since we paid the bill as soon as we realized the erorr).

Anybody interested in disintermediating the tradeline brokers? 

I can add you to accounts in kind or pay good money to be added as an authorized for aged accounts with large lines and 100% on time payment history. 

I could really use the help me get refinancing on this credit card debt into personal loans by lowering my utilization ratio thus boosting my score so I can qualify.

I have 15 month old son please consider if you are able to help I'm happy to compensate you in any way I can within reason we can find a win-win Situation.

Wait.  What?  You're offering to buy and sell tradelines directly right here on this forum?  On your first post??  And you're naming a non-approved tradeline vendor???

Sheesh.

This won't be up long.

[I'm a red panda]

So I read this article and then thought about selling my tradelines.

Figured out aI could probably make at least $500 per month according to a quote I received from splendindcredit.com. 

On the other hand I could buy tradelines and there are wildly varying prices out there but one quote I saw was for $1000 for a 25k line. 

I am personally unfortunately in a situation where I have a lot of debt due to some poor decisions made starting a business with the wrong partners so I'm in the market for refinancing unsercured debt at a lower rate. 

My wife and I make an excellent income we both work for Tesla for 4 and 5 years respectively. 

Currently we pull in $212k per year together. 

We both have a long history of 100% on time payment with the exception of one delinquent account on my wife's credit from a credit union checking  account that went negative because of a silly fee. 

At the moment we pay around $1600 on credit card interest per month at about 16.69% interest apr. 

That said we do have about $32k in available credit on our cards, having just paid off over $26k in cash over the last 30 days. 

I could use some help in the utilization department mainly everything else on my personal individual credit is 100% clean (my wife's sily delinquency on the checking account notwithstanding which I think is technically classified as a "late payment" since we paid the bill as soon as we realized the erorr).

Anybody interested in disintermediating the tradeline brokers? 

I can add you to accounts in kind or pay good money to be added as an authorized for aged accounts with large lines and 100% on time payment history. 

I could really use the help me get refinancing on this credit card debt into personal loans by lowering my utilization ratio thus boosting my score so I can qualify.

I have 15 month old son please consider if you are able to help I'm happy to compensate you in any way I can within reason we can find a win-win Situation.

Wait.  What?  You're offering to buy and sell tradelines directly right here on this forum?  On your first post??  And you're naming a non-approved tradeline vendor???

Sheesh.

This won't be up long.

I don't think there are too many people on this forum who would be buying....
Especially not from someone who describes delinquent credit actions...

[ditkanate]

It is probably a filter for PII.  I noticed that Chase filters out location details on secure messages.  Citi is probably doing something similar for anything it deems protected.

I figured that was the case but wondered if there was a way around that so I could see their response to my messages. At this point I am kind of guessing they are successfully attaching the SS# to the AU.

I've done the chat thing with them and asked them to verify that the AU has a SS# attached to their account.  Yes or no question.  Seemed to work, but at this point I'm not sure it's actually easier than calling.  Even though calling Citi sucks.

[MasterStache]

It is probably a filter for PII.  I noticed that Chase filters out location details on secure messages.  Citi is probably doing something similar for anything it deems protected.

I figured that was the case but wondered if there was a way around that so I could see their response to my messages. At this point I am kind of guessing they are successfully attaching the SS# to the AU.

I've done the chat thing with them and asked them to verify that the AU has a SS# attached to their account.  Yes or no question.  Seemed to work, but at this point I'm not sure it's actually easier than calling.  Even though calling Citi sucks.

I only had an issue with 1 AU not posting so far, so it's been a mostly positive experience just sending in a secure message with the SS#. I already cringe when I have to call USAA. Almost always at the very least a 20 min phone call. I did send a seperate secure message to just verify the SS numbers were added. So we'll see. 

[SilverAg47]

I have a new person listed in my Customer Documents with a last name that is 25 letters long.   I'm hoping when the order comes through that I'll be able to add this user without calling in!

[HBFIRE]

added my first AU to Discover a couple weeks ago (Have only been using my Barclays card up til now).

Discover left me a VM to call them immediately this afternoon, and I noticed when I tried to log in I get this message:

Please Contact Customer Service
Due to special conditions related to your credit card account, we cannot provide you with access to your account information at this time.

Please contact Customer Service so we can help you resolve this issue.

Has anyone experienced this?  I was unable to call them back today, so will find out tomorrow.  Questions typically asked?  What do you answer if asked how you know the AU?

[Car Jack]

I have a new person listed in my Customer Documents with a last name that is 25 letters long.   I'm hoping when the order comes through that I'll be able to add this user without calling in!

Say that the person's name is Rajaministadanapolisrasputinbingemania.  On the phone, call him Raj.

[bernardnb]

added my first AU to Discover a couple weeks ago (Have only been using my Barclays card up til now).

Discover left me a VM to call them immediately this afternoon, and I noticed when I tried to log in I get this message:

Please Contact Customer Service
Due to special conditions related to your credit card account, we cannot provide you with access to your account information at this time.

Please contact Customer Service so we can help you resolve this issue.

Has anyone experienced this?  I was unable to call them back today, so will find out tomorrow.  Questions typically asked?  What do you answer if asked how you know the AU?

Since it's the first time, it's probably them just waiting for you to confirm that it's legit.  I seem to recall that happening when I started using my Discover.

[HBFIRE]

Since it's the first time, it's probably them just waiting for you to confirm that it's legit.  I seem to recall that happening when I started using my Discover.

Yep, that's all it was, hopefully not going to be an issue in the future

[DavidAnnArbor]

Has anyone ever received a settlement that PointsLawyer got for you with respect to a Discover card closure ?

[spot]

Just wanted to alert everyone that I did a tradeline on Discover with the old company. Got a couple of sales and my card was shut down. Now months later I'm getting calls and emails saying someone is trying to access my (closed) account. Really do not want to deal with this and the money wasn't worth it for me.

[SilverAg47]

If I added a Discover user on 8/11/18, shouldn't I have been told to remove them by now?  Or does Discover just need to stay on longer?

[MoseyingAlong]

If I added a Discover user on 8/11/18, shouldn't I have been told to remove them by now?  Or does Discover just need to stay on longer?

Are you with the new company? And is your Discover card on hold?

Shortly after I added a couple AUs a few months ago, the new company put my card on hold. I figured it was when Discover was doing audits and they wanted to minimize activity that might get a card closed. So I've still got those AUs on my card.

If you find out something different, please let us know.

[flashflooder]

If I added a Discover user on 8/11/18, shouldn't I have been told to remove them by now?  Or does Discover just need to stay on longer?

The new company is not the best with communication (or timeliness)... but they're especially bad about following up with removals.  I typically remove the user myself if 3 months have passed since my add date (unless they explicitly ask me to extend it... and pay me appropriately).

[secondcor521]

If I added a Discover user on 8/11/18, shouldn't I have been told to remove them by now?  Or does Discover just need to stay on longer?

The new company is not the best with communication (or timeliness)... but they're especially bad about following up with removals.  I typically remove the user myself if 3 months have passed since my add date (unless they explicitly ask me to extend it... and pay me appropriately).

Feel free to do what you want, but as the previous poster noted, if the credit card issuer is doing an audit, New Company feels like (or has data to suggest that) removing an AU during the audit increases your risk of card closure.

I have seen New Company drop the ball on communication a time or two, but when that happens I usually reach out to them via email and they respond pretty quickly and accurately.

[Onion]

I have two Discover IT cards. One of them got shut down yesterday from Discover after about 11-12 AU slots in the last five months.

I called in to find out why. Was only able to be told it was a "Business decision" and given an address I could write to for more specifics.

Never overdue or late on this card.

I do have three other cards with other banks with high balances (0% bt). I don't know if that triggered it or the AU slots.

They still left me with my second Discover IT card (which is 5 1/2 years old)

Anyways - 11 slots at $150 each was worth it. ($1650).

[SilverAg47]

If I added a Discover user on 8/11/18, shouldn't I have been told to remove them by now?  Or does Discover just need to stay on longer?

Are you with the new company? And is your Discover card on hold?

Shortly after I added a couple AUs a few months ago, the new company put my card on hold. I figured it was when Discover was doing audits and they wanted to minimize activity that might get a card closed. So I've still got those AUs on my card.

If you find out something different, please let us know.

Yes, new company.  And I see that both my Discover cards are on hold now.  It looks like the best plan is to wait it out and simply leave my Discover AU's on my cards until further notice.

[BikeFanatic]

I have been putting two AU on my Discover every 2-3 months for about 2 years. They have put my account on hold twice and I had to call adn confirm the AU , but I dont know if it was an audit or because  I added them online and not on the phone. I think you could go with Discover for quite a while if you limit your AU to two.

I added an AU on my chase card tonoght, they will not take the social security nuber this is not new but tonight they only took the name and DOB. anyone else have this problem with chase?

[Onion]

I have been putting two AU on my Discover every 2-3 months for about 2 years. They have put my account on hold twice and I had to call adn confirm the AU , but I dont know if it was an audit or because  I added them online and not on the phone. I think you could go with Discover for quite a while if you limit your AU to two.

I added an AU on my chase card tonoght, they will not take the social security nuber this is not new but tonight they only took the name and DOB. anyone else have this problem with chase?

Did you add over the phone or online? I always add online and there has been slot for address.

[BikeFanatic]

Hi Onion,
Yes I did call it in,   I will try online. thanks for the Info

[chuckster]

I for sure dont want my card closed but i need the $.

I won't speak to your personal situation, but, to anyone reading along and considering this gig, I would really, really recommend not doing this with any card you don't want closed.

You really have to think of the card as disposable.

Before I sign up a card to sell tradelines, I make sure I empty it completely--earn any bonuses, cash in any rewards, etc--and treat it as if the card is already closed.

Basically, if you can get in the mindset that you want this card closed, but don't want to go through the hassle of calling in and dealing with the credit card company, and then the tradeline people come along and say "wouldn't you rather get paid for closing your credit card? We'll pay you $50, $250, maybe $1000 or more to get your card closed", it's a much better way to look at it. It certainly makes it more fun... seeing how much you can get paid for something you were going to throw out anyway.

[sol]

seeing how much you can get paid for something you were going to throw out anyway.

A friend of mine works in a warehouse that manufactures "quartz" countertops.  They sell their finished product for thousands of dollars per kitchen, but they generate huge amounts of waste material and were previously paying a service to come haul it away to the dump.  Then they started grinding up their expensive countertop scraps and giving it away free to the city to use as road fill material for potholes and such, but at least they didn't have to pay to have it hauled off.  Then they started selling it by the cubic yard to construction companies to use as road fill material, and raked in huge new dollars from what was previously a waste product.  Then they started bagging it and selling it as decorative ground cover in home and garden stores, and got paid even more.  Now the stuff goes for $25 per bag instead of $25 per cubic yard instead of free to the city instead of costing them money to dispose of.  This is how all companies operate, constantly finding ways to turn byproducts into profit streams, and I like the idea of using your mailbox full of credit card offers the same way.

[Padonak]

I for sure dont want my card closed but i need the $.

I won't speak to your personal situation, but, to anyone reading along and considering this gig, I would really, really recommend not doing this with any card you don't want closed.

You really have to think of the card as disposable.

Before I sign up a card to sell tradelines, I make sure I empty it completely--earn any bonuses, cash in any rewards, etc--and treat it as if the card is already closed.

Basically, if you can get in the mindset that you want this card closed, but don't want to go through the hassle of calling in and dealing with the credit card company, and then the tradeline people come along and say "wouldn't you rather get paid for closing your credit card? We'll pay you $50, $250, maybe $1000 or more to get your card closed", it's a much better way to look at it. It certainly makes it more fun... seeing how much you can get paid for something you were going to throw out anyway.

Also, don't be surprised if your application for a premium credit card with a bank gets declined if you had a card previously closed by the same bank for selling tradelines. It happened to me recently: BofA closed a card I used for tradelines, then I applied for new card with a $600+ signup bonus and got declined. I called and asked why. The only reason was that they closed my previous card.

I have received enough sign up bonuses and other credit card rewards to not worry about these things anymore, but your mileage may vary.

[chuckster]

seeing how much you can get paid for something you were going to throw out anyway.

A friend of mine works in a warehouse that manufactures "quartz" countertops.  They sell their finished product for thousands of dollars per kitchen, but they generate huge amounts of waste material and were previously paying a service to come haul it away to the dump.  Then they started grinding up their expensive countertop scraps and giving it away free to the city to use as road fill material for potholes and such, but at least they didn't have to pay to have it hauled off.  Then they started selling it by the cubic yard to construction companies to use as road fill material, and raked in huge new dollars from what was previously a waste product.  Then they started bagging it and selling it as decorative ground cover in home and garden stores, and got paid even more.  Now the stuff goes for $25 per bag instead of $25 per cubic yard instead of free to the city instead of costing them money to dispose of.  This is how all companies operate, constantly finding ways to turn byproducts into profit streams, and I like the idea of using your mailbox full of credit card offers the same way.

Yep, and I just learned that's where "Baby Carrots" come from too: carrot growers found that grocery stores only wanted perfect looking, straight, pointed cone carrots, because that's all people would buy. So they were stuck with the lumpy, crooked, misshapen carrots with no use for them. They they figured out they could cut them into smaller two-inch segments and shave them into uniform shapes, and people would pay 4 times as much per pound for them! Eventually even the "normal-looking" carrots were more profitable shaved into Baby Carrots.

[SilverAg47]

So I have 2 Discover cards with the New Company, and both had been resting for a couple months as the risk of audit has been quite high apparently.  Well, all of a sudden one of them was put back to active today.  I'm wondering if the audit stuff is done for awhile now?

I found this out when I got 4 notification emails, all for the same Discover It card.  I have to remove 2 of my AU's from August and then add 2 other ones.  What would be the best order of operation to get these 4 things accomplished?  I was thinking Add 1 user, then wait a day and Add the next one...then wait maybe a week and remove the 2 old ones?  I did email the New Company to see what the latest is with Discover and how I should proceed so I'll see what they think too.