Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking Part II: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig

[CanuckExpat]

Off topic,, but how'd you get paid to offer an opinion on fried chicken?

It was through an online survey/market research company: Respondent
They are pretty thorough about the screening, you have to link your LinkedIn etc so they verify your title, but the surveys are pretty targeted and lucrative so it makes sense.

I haven't seen anything that involves eating food in a while unfortunately.
We were getting quite a bit of money from them for offering our opinion for a while, and recently nothing (though I haven't been checking the site), either as unemployed people we aren't that attractive anymore, or they have a lot more people offering their opinion on the site

Easy come, easy go

[el_ingeniero]

Holy crap - you're buying $30k worth of gift cards each month???

Considerably less.  The credit card is not the only source of rewards.

[el_ingeniero]

I do a fair amount of manufactured spend churning Visa Gift Cards either through online portals or for fuel rewards, mostly on my 2% cards with no annual fee.

It's worth about $600/month for 8 Walmart trips every month across a couple of credit cards.

As long as I pay off balances before the payment cycles close would I be OK, or should I get new credit cards to churn gift cards on?

You have to know that you'll get shut down eventually. It's not a sustainable practice. Read flyertalk.

No arbitrage is sustainable in the long term.  It gets harder and harder, and then the bubble pops.

I'm down to one Wally within the range where it's worth my time to do this.  When that goes, on to the next thing.

[el_ingeniero]

Holy crap - you're buying $30k worth of gift cards each month???

yeah, wut?  TEACH ME

reddit.com/r/churning/

And then there's Flyertalk.  But truth be told the real action is now in small groups, either Facebook or Slack.  I think I prefer it that way.  A lot of manufactured spend depends on the locale.

Part of the problem with arbitrage is that if everyone knows the deal then things get too efficient and the profit opportunities dry up.

[sol]

Part of the problem with arbitrage is that if everyone knows the deal then things get too efficient and the profit opportunities dry up.

We call that "the free market" and it's the crowning achievement of modern capitalism.

[dragoncar]

You used to be able to buy coins from the US Mint and then deposit the coins in your bank account. Those were the days.

It pays to have your finger on the pulse. Used to be "easy" and lucrative to MS, now it appears to be the Golden Age Of Bank Account Bonuses

Or perhaps it was. We were in for several thousand for the year in bank account bonuses (or like 20% of our retirement spending or something) and then all of a sudden we both started getting declined

Easy come, easy go

I never really got bank bonuses.  Sure you get $200, but you tie up 20k for six months.  That’s a 2% return

[LovinPSDs]

You need to have utilization under 10%, but you can basically pay off all of the amount due except for like $3so then the statement closes with a $3 balance and reports., then pay that off (before it earns any interest).
[/quote]

Is the 10% rule have some post date requirement?  I have a very mature card (7+yrs) with a 25K limit but have been using it for a decent portion of my life.  I would imagine there are plenty of months where I exceeded the 10%, especially back before it was higher limit.

Thanks! Kinda coming in late here as well, but very intrigued in Tradelines.

[arebelspy]

You need to have utilization under 10%, but you can basically pay off all of the amount due except for like $3so then the statement closes with a $3 balance and reports., then pay that off (before it earns any interest).

Is the 10% rule have some post date requirement?  I have a very mature card (7+yrs) with a 25K limit but have been using it for a decent portion of my life.  I would imagine there are plenty of months where I exceeded the 10%, especially back before it was higher limit.

Thanks! Kinda coming in late here as well, but very intrigued in Tradelines.

Just on the months you have an AU on it. The past doesn't matter (except for all on time payments). There's no history of utilization stored on a credit report.

[el_ingeniero]

Part of the problem with arbitrage is that if everyone knows the deal then things get too efficient and the profit opportunities dry up.

We call that "the free market" and it's the crowning achievement of modern capitalism.

Yep.

Modern Capitalism decided to make it possible for me to acquire 350K AA miles without paying a dime out of my own pocket, and to use 260K of them to acquire $66,000 worth of business and first class plane tickets to vacation in SE Asia with my wife. And me with a 650 FICO score at the time.

In a nutshell, that was my introduction to the credit card game.  I know people who went through 10 or 12 of those signup offers as a couple.

Then Modern Capitalism woke up one day and decided to take that away from people who were late to the game.

I personally think it had way more to do with AA financing their impending merger with US Airways by selling a few bajillion miles to Citi. And Citi disposing of those miles any way it could, probably at a loss. Then Citi got tired of losing money on signup offers, so they stopped offering cards to anyone with a warm body. And AA got tired of carrying that few bajillion miles as a liability and devalued their loyalty program, and for a while made it impossible to redeem those miles for flights at more than 1/10th of a cent of airfare on the mile.

[kingxiaodi]

You used to be able to buy coins from the US Mint and then deposit the coins in your bank account. Those were the days.

It pays to have your finger on the pulse. Used to be "easy" and lucrative to MS, now it appears to be the Golden Age Of Bank Account Bonuses

Or perhaps it was. We were in for several thousand for the year in bank account bonuses (or like 20% of our retirement spending or something) and then all of a sudden we both started getting declined

Easy come, easy go

I never really got bank bonuses.  Sure you get $200, but you tie up 20k for six months.  That’s a 2% return

There are plenty that require a direct deposit or a bill pay rather than a high balance. I have about $15k set aside to use for bank bonuses, and I've made ~$2k in bonuses this year. The two major issues with it are a lack of scalability (i.e. if I had a partner, I could have used $30k to get a $4k return, but no more) and a limited number of options (the last bonus I completed was in August). The site linked above (Golden Age Of Bank Account Bonuses) was really helpful to me if you want to learn more. I won't derail this thread any further.

[newworld]

I am interested in starting this and seeing how well I can do with it.

What would expectations be as far as time spent and income (roughly) for credit lines like this:

Citi - $9,600 CL - 6yr 3mo
Capitalone - $10,500 CL - 4yr 11mo
Capitalone - $31,500 CL - 4yr 10mo
Capitalone - $10,000 CL - 4yr 9mo
Wells Fargo - $8,000 CL - 4yr 2mo
Barclay - $16,000 CL - 1yr 4mo
Chase - $22,000 CL - 1yr 4mo
Chase - $10,000 CL - 1yr 4mo
Chase - $10,000 CL - 10mo

All have perfect history, no late payments, etc.

Any information is greatly appreciated!

~NW

[CanuckExpat]

You used to be able to buy coins from the US Mint and then deposit the coins in your bank account. Those were the days.

It pays to have your finger on the pulse. Used to be "easy" and lucrative to MS, now it appears to be the Golden Age Of Bank Account Bonuses

Or perhaps it was. We were in for several thousand for the year in bank account bonuses (or like 20% of our retirement spending or something) and then all of a sudden we both started getting declined

Easy come, easy go

I never really got bank bonuses.  Sure you get $200, but you tie up 20k for six months.  That’s a 2% return

There are plenty that require a direct deposit or a bill pay rather than a high balance. I have about $15k set aside to use for bank bonuses, and I've made ~$2k in bonuses this year. The two major issues with it are a lack of scalability (i.e. if I had a partner, I could have used $30k to get a $4k return, but no more) and a limited number of options (the last bonus I completed was in August). The site linked above (Golden Age Of Bank Account Bonuses) was really helpful to me if you want to learn more. I won't derail this thread any further.

I agree with kingxiaodi that you have to check each offer to see if it makes sense and that I shouldn't derail this thread further.
dragoncar if you are interested, there is a thread with more details here, and I posted a response with specific exampe to you there: Bank account churning: how to make $1600 in a year by being organized

[arebelspy]

What would expectations be as far as time spent and income (roughly) for credit lines like this:
...

I'd really rather not answer questions like this in general, cause they're 1) Unknowable, and 2) I don't want people posting their list of cards all the time, and hoping to see some specific numbers, that will not make an interesting or useful thread.

Allow me to answer more broadly, and hope it will help others as well.

The young ones you may make a few hundred per year. The older a few thousand.  Overall I'd expect to see--given the current state of the market--maybe 5-10k for maybe 5-10 hours of work per year.

Could be significantly more (2x that), or less (to the point of $0), I'm just ballparking based on what others have seen. It tends to be feast or famine, lots of sales, or very few, so it's more likely to see one extreme than in the middle (i.e. very fat tails).

[Gin1984]

You used to be able to buy coins from the US Mint and then deposit the coins in your bank account. Those were the days.

It pays to have your finger on the pulse. Used to be "easy" and lucrative to MS, now it appears to be the Golden Age Of Bank Account Bonuses

Or perhaps it was. We were in for several thousand for the year in bank account bonuses (or like 20% of our retirement spending or something) and then all of a sudden we both started getting declined

Easy come, easy go

I never really got bank bonuses.  Sure you get $200, but you tie up 20k for six months.  That’s a 2% return

I've never tied up $20K.  Most of the time I get around $150 for $500-1000/month direct deposit.  That money does not sit there, I use it for my general expenses.  Normally there is a $1000 ish sitting there to avoid fees but that is it.

[lmf]

Was told the money should be in my account today... still nothing. I have not received an add for an AU since the first time I pointed out I wasn't paid back in September. Prior to that I was getting several AUs at least every other month. Coincidence? Possibly... doesn't feel like it though.

Same thing happened here.  I used to get a sale on one card every month.  But then payment was super late one month and I emailed to ask about it.  Since then no sales.

[LovinPSDs]

I'd be interested to know when Chase goes back live.  I think my card is a good candidate but not going to bother should Chase be on the radar.  I just doubled checked my credit report and that cards been open since 2008!!

[hhauewr]

Old company is taking Chase again. Do you know if they take AU's SSN over the phone?

[LovinPSDs]

Old company is taking Chase again. Do you know if they take AU's SSN over the phone?

I have not actually done it, but my web portal on Chase has an option to add AU online.

[Spartans]

If the company catches on and shuts you down, do they only close that card or close all your accounts with them?  I'm concerned about it being the latter with Chase.  Wouldn't want to put my UR's in jeopardy for a few hundred bucks.

[arebelspy]

Yep. All the other companies shut down the one card. Chase shuts them all down. I don't personally use Chase for this reason. Even though the rate of closures is low, not worth it to me.

[Spartans]

Gotcha.  I only hold Chase cards so I guess I'm sitting this one out.

ARS - I think I saw that you had 500K UR's, did you accumulate all of those through churning? 

[arebelspy]

Gotcha.  I only hold Chase cards so I guess I'm sitting this one out.

ARS - I think I saw that you had 500K UR's, did you accumulate all of those through churning?

Yep. Down to just under 400k now, we've been spending them recently without any efforts to accumulate more.

[JohnGalt79]

Yep. All the other companies shut down the one card. Chase shuts them all down. I don't personally use Chase for this reason. Even though the rate of closures is low, not worth it to me.

Do you know if checking/savings accounts would also be included in a shut-down scenario with Chase, or is it limited to the credit cards?

[arebelspy]

That is my understanding, yes. All your Chase accounts, and I have heard accounts associated with your address (e.g. potentially spouse's accounts).  Further, they blacklist you from applying for new accounts, from what I understand.

I cannot confirm this.

I can confirm B of A just shuts down the one card, and this is the same with all other providers; just shut down the one card, and you can still get new accounts with them.

[JohnGalt79]

That is my understanding, yes. All your Chase accounts, and I have heard accounts associated with your address (e.g. potentially spouse's accounts).  Further, they blacklist you from applying for new accounts, from what I understand.

I cannot confirm this.

I can confirm B of A just shuts down the one card, and this is the same with all other providers; just shut down the one card, and you can still get new accounts with them.

Ok, thanks.  That's very helpful to know.

[kpd905]

I should know this, but when is the payout?  I added two users on October 6th for an October 9th statement closing date.  Should I have gotten paid end of November or do they typically go a few days past?  It has been a while since I had an add.

[secondcor521]

I should know this, but when is the payout?  I added two users on October 6th for an October 9th statement closing date.  Should I have gotten paid end of November or do they typically go a few days past?  It has been a while since I had an add.

For me it's usually between the 16th and the 21st of the month to receive payments.  So if you weren't paid on or around 11/20, I would look to be paid around 12/20.

[sol]

I should know this, but when is the payout?  I added two users on October 6th for an October 9th statement closing date.  Should I have gotten paid end of November or do they typically go a few days past?  It has been a while since I had an add.

As mentioned above by multiple people, we haven't had a single add since we complained about not getting paid one time.  Whatever you do, do NOT contact them to find out why you haven't been paid because it seems they will vindictively punish you if you're a "problem" account.   It's probably better to let them just screw you out of one month's AU fee rather than losing all AUs forever, which is what has happened to us after being a squeaky wheel.

This whole business model seemed vaguely shady from the outset, and nothing about my interactions with them has done anything to assuage that feeling.  You're effectively dealing in a black market, so you probably have to accept some degree of graft.

[topshot]

I would have thought that I wouldn't get paid until after I was told to remove them as AU. It would seem odd to me to be paid before the 60-90 days was up. I could end up removing them too early whether by accident or not.

Speaking of removing and adding, I see that I apparently have 2 new AUs on one card later this month to replace the current two. Is it wise to remove both in the same day and then add 2 others the next day? I'd think it would better to deal with only one AU at a time (i.e., never add/delete more than 1 per day or at least per call).

[kpd905]

Whatever you do, do NOT contact them to find out why you haven't been paid because it seems they will vindictively punish you if you're a "problem" account. 

Interesting, thanks for the advice.  I wasn't going to contact them anytime soon because I figured I just forgot about the payment terms.  I am getting 3-5 adds per month on the old company, this was my first sale on this one in many months.

[secondcor521]

I would have thought that I wouldn't get paid until after I was told to remove them as AU. It would seem odd to me to be paid before the 60-90 days was up. I could end up removing them too early whether by accident or not.

Speaking of removing and adding, I see that I apparently have 2 new AUs on one card later this month to replace the current two. Is it wise to remove both in the same day and then add 2 others the next day? I'd think it would better to deal with only one AU at a time (i.e., never add/delete more than 1 per day or at least per call).

You can get paid before removal.  I have.  I think they reserve the right to claw back the payment if you screw up, but I'm not sure.

The official guidance I believe is to only add or delete in a single phone call but that it is OK to add multiple or delete multiple.  I prefer to only add or delete a single AU per phone call, but I'll happily do it all in the same day.  So if I were in your situation, I'd make four phone calls in a single day.

[max9505672]

Is this technique is not applicable in Canada?

[ducky19]

So I was looking back at my order history for the year and noticed that one of my cards was paid at the wrong tier - it was put in as $75 but should have paid $175. I have an email from them that confirms the payout for that card should be $175 from before that AU was added. I just sent an email requesting the additional $100, and informing them that another card has moved tiers as well. We will see what the result is. I definitely like the payout tiers better at this company vs. the old company, but if things don't improve here with on time/correct payouts, I'll be moving all of my cards to the old company. I just moved one that had gotten no action with the new company and have already gotten a sale.

[Optimiser]

As mentioned above by multiple people, we haven't had a single add since we complained about not getting paid one time.

This has been my experience as well. I only had two adds before, but I've had zero since.

I hate to complain about free money, but I'm disappointed at how things have worked out so far.

[Imustacheyouaquestion]

I hate to complain about free money, but I'm disappointed at how things have worked out so far.

I don't feel like it's complaining, nor is it free money. You have a contract with them. They are selling access to a product on your behalf.

I just chalk this inconvenience up to each tradeline actually being a few more minutes of work to set calendar reminders and politely follow up with the company. I had to follow up twice last month about a missing payment, but it did finally arrive on 11/20. Still had a sale for December on the same card. FWIW, I think the lack of sales is due to a glut of cardholders overall, not "retribution" for asking about money you're owed.

[ducky19]

I hate to complain about free money, but I'm disappointed at how things have worked out so far.

I don't feel like it's complaining, nor is it free money. You have a contract with them. They are selling access to a product on your behalf.

I just chalk this inconvenience up to each tradeline actually being a few more minutes of work to set calendar reminders and politely follow up with the company. I had to follow up twice last month about a missing payment, but it did finally arrive on 11/20. Still had a sale for December on the same card. FWIW, I think the lack of sales is due to a glut of cardholders overall, not "retribution" for asking about money you're owed.

I certainly hope that you're right, but it is disappointing to see how many people have had to follow up for payment. You would think scheduling and sending payment should be relatively easy to automate. Even if you didn't automate payment, an automatic reminder on who is due payment each month would take just a few minutes to set up.

It's also disappointing that I have to be the one to point out when a card should move from one tier to the next. Again - you have the open date of every card in the system and your own payout schedule... why can't this be automated as well? Maybe I should ask if he needs some help figuring that out...?

[charuhans]

Just putting out a data point - My payments were delayed for 3 months and each time I contacted them and they sent the payment promptly. Since last October my payment has been coming promptly by the 7th of the month. And I have had adds all the time I was "complaining". Also, in May I had a credit line increase which put me in a higher tier (I updated the info on their website by opening a ticket) but I was paid the lower rate the next month. I "Complained" and was promptly paid the difference with an apology. I'm just a regular member and have no other connection with the company. Make what you can guys from this data point.

[katsiki]

Just to add my 2 cents..

I think they are small and disorganized.  I have had good responses from the owner who seems to also do the accounting. 

[DavidAnnArbor]

Just to add my 2 cents..

I think they are small and disorganized.  I have had good responses from the owner who seems to also do the accounting.

+1

[flashflooder]

FWIW, I've had to contact them about payments and other misc small problems, and am getting more adds than ever.  So I don't think they're putting anyone on a naughty list.

[ducky19]

Just to add my 2 cents..

I think they are small and disorganized.  I have had good responses from the owner who seems to also do the accounting.

I've always gotten good response from the owner - no issues there. I have had to follow up with him though for every single payment. His responses have ranged from "you read my mind" to "payment was sent out today" to my favorite "our accountant was on vacation." Each time, I've gotten the impression that if I hadn't followed up I'd still be waiting. I understand they are small and disorganized, but it's been a year now since arebelspy started recommending them. I just expected that would be enough time to iron these wrinkles out. I really hope this doesn't come off as me just complaining about "free" money, just wishing there were fewer issues is all.

[arebelspy]

I agree. The issues are disappointing.

I have continued to research other companies, have been talking with the newcomers mentioned earlier in the thread (sadly, still not at the point where I'd recommend them), and have been talking with old company again.

Easy money, yes, but also hassle factor is important.

I'm glad to hear for many of you it's going well. It is, of course, the ones who have a disappointing experience who vocalize it, but there shouldn't be any disappointing experiences, to be frank.

They're doing key things right, but dropping the ball on basic things, sadly. Will likely have more soon, once I have time to type stuff up, and may launch a 3rd TL thread at that point, as this one is getting so long and cumbersome.

[VeggieTable]

I have had an issue that I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered. I added a Capital One account with the new company, went a few months without an AU, then in October, finally got one. Added the AU, then a month later, Capital One decided to reduce my credit limit, for literally no reason. The best I could get out of them was that it was a "business decision" because I wasn't using enough of the credit line. My credit limit was $20,000 and is now $10,000. The card sat completely unused for 7 years, until about 6 months ago. During those 7 years (and years prior, when I was a college student and they felt I was trustworthy with $20,000 of credit), they didn't see fit to reduce my credit. I called and argued as best I could to get it increased, but go absolutely nowhere. Has anyone else had this happen?

I emailed the new TL company when my limit was reduced, as I'd had an AU for 30 days by that point, but they just said "thanks for letting us know". I had hoped they'd tell me how to approach it with Capital One, or let me know if this is a new trend.

[tj]

Added the AU, then a month later, Capital One decided to reduce my credit limit, for literally no reason

I guess that's one way to kill tradeline sales. Instead of cancelling your card, they just give you a lower limit. That way they can still profit off your spending. :D

[ducky19]

It's funny, I had a Cap One card that was restricted until I provided them with all sorts of info on all of my AUs. The new company said they were going to shut my card down, so I just didn't do anything. I have since gotten another Cap One card and they never did close my other account. It's still restricted and I can't do anything with it, but it still shows up on my credit report. I figured I'll just leave it alone until such time as they see fit to either unrestrict it or close it. Cap One is weird when it comes to AUs though from what I've seen and heard.

[CanuckExpat]

Easy money, yes, but also hassle factor is important.

Probably me complaining about free/easy money, but the hassle factor has been enough of a problem enough with Citi that I don't think I want to bother continue to sell TLs on those card. You have to call in, they end up taking a while, putting you on hold, making lots of mistakes, and sometimes randomly drop the AU so it doesn't post. Probably still a decent pay off per hour, but not sure if I care for the hassle.

Prefer to stick to Discover et al that is all online and no real problems.

[arebelspy]

Yeah, all mine are done online (Discover, Cap 1, Barclay, B of A--though B of A's removal is phone).

Waiting on hold sucks. At least you can browse the forums while waiting.

[tj]

Yeah, all mine are done online (Discover, Cap 1, Barclay, B of A--though B of A's removal is phone).

That was my strategy, because I didn't want to bother with waiting on hold and trying to pronounce names, but half the time it wouldn't post.  I guess I just had a string of bad luck.

[FrugalZony]

Easy money, yes, but also hassle factor is important.

Probably me complaining about free/easy money, but the hassle factor has been enough of a problem enough with Citi that I don't think I want to bother continue to sell TLs on those card. You have to call in, they end up taking a while, putting you on hold, making lots of mistakes, and sometimes randomly drop the AU so it doesn't post. Probably still a decent pay off per hour, but not sure if I care for the hassle.

Prefer to stick to Discover et al that is all online and no real problems.

I have had similar thoughts with citi.

Has nothing to do with "new company" just the way citi organises things.
I have had a total of 4 adds to citi, 2 at a time. Payout is low, as it's a newer card.
Even when added online AUs don't always show. Calling in takes forever and they don't get what you want...

I have been toying with taking my citi card out of the portal once we are back on the road.
I have also been thinking about just taking the risk and skipping the call in part.
I know ARS often does not add the SSNs. So I could keep Citi on, do what I can online without calling in.
I'll see how the ones I just added a few days ago will post and then take a decision.

[DavidAnnArbor]

Easy money, yes, but also hassle factor is important.

Probably me complaining about free/easy money, but the hassle factor has been enough of a problem enough with Citi that I don't think I want to bother continue to sell TLs on those card. You have to call in, they end up taking a while, putting you on hold, making lots of mistakes, and sometimes randomly drop the AU so it doesn't post. Probably still a decent pay off per hour, but not sure if I care for the hassle.

Prefer to stick to Discover et al that is all online and no real problems.

I have had similar thoughts with citi.

Has nothing to do with "new company" just the way citi organises things.
I have had a total of 4 adds to citi, 2 at a time. Payout is low, as it's a newer card.
Even when added online AUs don't always show. Calling in takes forever and they don't get what you want...

I have been toying with taking my citi card out of the portal once we are back on the road.
I have also been thinking about just taking the risk and skipping the call in part.
I know ARS often does not add the SSNs. So I could keep Citi on, do what I can online without calling in.
I'll see how the ones I just added a few days ago will post and then take a decision.

I also had problems with my last 2 adds with Citi. In one case Citi added the AU, but then dropped it a few days later, so then I added the AU online. But now apparently it's not posting to all 3 credit reports. In the online process the social security number is not asked for, unlike when you call in.