Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking Part II: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig

[arebelspy]

Welcome to the NEW Tradeline Sales Thread!

If you want a referral to the two tradeline companies I recommend, Click Here To Send Me a PM.

This thread is a new thread to discuss tradeline sales.  The old thread can be found here. (It is not necessary to read it, all of the relevant information has been moved to this thread, but I'm providing a link for reference's sake--there was lots of discussion around this topic in that thread if you want to read more after reading this newer thread.)

I started this new thread, rather than keep using the old one, for a few reasons:

• Several things changed, affecting the accuracy of the original post (what credit cards were accepted, what the payouts were) and so that some of the information was outdated/incorrect and the math on some of the examples wrong.
• There is a new company I have to recommend, a long (but important post) that would be buried there, but will have more immediate prominence here, as the first few replies.
• The old thread was filled with questions and answers and comments about the old tradeline company, which is still accessible there, but many of the posts and answers are now out of date and no longer relevant. The easiest way to "archive" those posts so all replies are current is to start a new thread.
• The old thread was long; wading through it just for the information one wanted was cumbersome.  A fresh start keeps the information compact and tidy.

(Note: Most of the below information in this post was from the old thread, but it has been edited/updated to reflect changes over the last five months in things like commission schedules, cards accepted, etc. so it is current as of this posting, and will be regularly updated if anything changes. /UPDATED 7-31-19 with current payout schedules for the two recommended companies.)

If you didn't read the old thread, but just saw the title of this thread, the first thing you're asking yourself is:

Is this real?  It sounds too good to be true.

Yes.  It absolutely is real.  In 6 1/2 months (since mid-June), I've earned over $16,000.  Other Mustachians--since I posted the first thread about it in July--have signed up and earned thousands of dollars as well.  It's definitely real, and it's paying out many thousands of dollars every month.  It's not a scam, it's a way to use your credit cards to generate massive amounts of money for almost no work, legally.

I estimate my wife and I will net between 20k and 40k per year for an hour or two a month of work by this activity: selling trade lines on our credit cards.  This post is to introduce you to the idea, if you aren't familiar with the concept, or give more info if you've heard of it, but haven't looked at it closely yet.

What Is It?

Essentially, you are adding authorized users onto your credit cards, temporarily (for a month or two, before you remove them), and getting paid to do so.

Huh? What? Why? How does it work?

As you know, many things in our country run on credit, and if you have good credit, you are charged a lower interest rate when you finance things. If you have bad credit, you are charged a higher interest rate, and pay more money for things.

Due to this, people are often looking to temporarily "boost" their credit score.  If they are going in to buy a car, for example, if they have a bad credit score, they are going to be charged a high rate ("While the average interest rate for borrowers with good credit is between 4% and 5%, subprime borrowers will pay an average of 10% to 13%, depending on their credit score." -Bankrate.com).

Instead, they might pay $1000 (or whatever--all the numbers in this post will be illustrative) to a credit boosting company, who acts as the middleman bringing together people who have credit cards with a long history and/or high limits, and people who want their scores boosted.  That company then turns around and pays you $125-275 (depending on the card's age and credit limit). You add the person as an "authorized user" on your credit card you've had open, say, 5 years that has a $15,000 limit, and no late payments ever, and you spend a few bucks on the card, so it closes with a balance.

This new authorized user never receives a card, and can't spend any money on the card (see more details on this below).

A few weeks later, your credit card statement statement closes, the credit card company reports to the credit agencies that this individual is an authorized user on this card, which now, due to the amount of time the card has been open and the extra available credit, boosts their score.  They go buy the car, and save a bunch of money on interest.

A month later, you remove that person as an authorized user.

Okay, so, how much can I make?

Well, depending on the card, you can sell 2-5 trade lines (authorized user spots) every other month (i.e. two month cycles).  The amount you make depends on your card: how old it is, and how large the credit limit is.  The older it is, and the larger the credit limit, the more it helps the AU, and the more you get paid.

The payout schedule for the two companies I recommend is as follows:

"New Company":

Spoiler: show

Updated July 2019.

	Card Age	Card Age	Card Age	Card Age
Credit Limit	12-24 months	2 years- 4 Years	4 years- 8 Years	8+ Years
$2k-$4999	$15	$25	$25	$25
$5k-$9,999	$25	$50	$50	$75 ($100 MMM)
$10k-$14,999	$50	$100	$100	$125
$15k-$19,999	$100	$125	$125	$175
$20k-$29,999	$150	$175	$175	$225
$30k-$39,999	$200	$225	$225	$250 ($275 MMM)
$40k-$49,999	$225	$250 ($275 MMM)	$250 ($275 MMM)	$275 ($300 MMM)
$50k+	$300	$300	$300	$300 ($350 if 12+ years old)

(Caveat: the ones that say "MMM" are $25 more if you use me as a referral.  See disclaimer at bottom of this post.)

"Old Company":

Spoiler: show

Updated July 2019.

Does not break out payments based on age of card; all cards must be 2+ years old and follow the commission structure below:
A. 2-Month Cycle Commission for Barclays, Citibank, Discover, PNC, US Bank, Elan, TD Bank:
1. Limit $10,000 - $15,000 - $75 per spot
2. Limit $15,001 - $20,000 - $125 per spot
3. Limit $20,001 - $30,000 - $175 per spot
4. Limit $30,001 - $40,000 - $200 per spot
5. Limit $40,001 - or more - $225 per spot

B. 3-Month Cycle Commission for Capital One, NFCU, USAA:
1. Limit $10,000 - $15,000 - $125 per spot
2. Limit $15,001 - $20,000 - $150 per spot
3. Limit $20,001 - $30,000 - $200 per spot
4. Limit $30,001 - $40,000 - $250 per spot
5. Limit $40,001 - or more - $275 per spot

C. 4-Month Cycle Commission for Chase and Bank of America:
1. Limit $10,000 - $15,000 - $175 per spot
2. Limit $15,001 - $20,000 - $200 per spot
3. Limit $20,001 - $30,000 - $250 per spot
4. Limit $30,001 - $40,000 - $275 per spot
5. Limit $40,001 - or more - $350 per spot
6. Limit $40,001 - or more + 10 years - $400 per spot

Some cards they cap to 2 tradelines to help them from getting cancelled (see below), while other cards where the credit card company doesn't tend to cancel you might go up to 5 lines.  Ditto with how often they fill the lines up--some they keep for two months, some they will load up every month.

(Disclaimer: Below numbers are illustrative and may not be up to date based on current payout schedule. Adjust example to fit your situation.)

So say you have a Bank of America card (2 spots), Barclay (5 spots), Citi (5), Discover (5) and US Bank (5), and they all had between a 10 and 20k limit, and were all 2-20 years old.  You'd be making in the range of $125 (for the 2-7 year old, $10-15k cards) to $175 (for the 8+ year old, $15-20k cards).  Say an average of $150 per tradeline.

If you sold all of those (22) spots over the course of the two months, you'd make $3,300 (22 spots x $150/spot) per two months, or $19,800 annually.

Now imagine you had more cards than those five, or that you a spouse also that you enroll...

The numbers can get very silly very quickly.

Some months are slower (less people using credit, it's cyclical) so you might not make as much, some months you'll fill up everything.

What credit cards can I use?
Any card issued by: Barclays, Citi, Discover, PNC, USAA, NFCU, US Bank, Bank of America, Capital One, Elan Financial, Worlds Foremost Bank, Fidelity, or Chase.

These are the issuers right now that the companies I recommend use.  Cards issued by other credit card issuers tend to not post correctly (e.g. you add the AU, but it doesn't show up right for them) or have the card cancelled (see risks, below).

Those issuers tend to reliably post and not cancel cards.  Other companies may support other cards, but they may carry additional risk and hassle, and those companies may not be as reliable in terms of fraud and abuse (see below, as well as the rest of the thread for discussion). 

Concerns:
Is this illegal?
Not at all. Totally legal.  Also very likely against your credit card terms of service though, so you are at risk of them closing your credit card account.

What if the Authorized User spends a bunch on my card?
Not possible--they never get a copy of the card.  It's sent directly to you, to your address on the account.  Even if they call for a replacement card or something, A) They won't have the information needed to "verify" your account (like last 4 of your social, or your DOB, or anything about you), but further, even if they could, the replacement card is also is sent to your address.  As an authorized user, they can't change any info on the account, nor get a card shipped to them.  They'll be on the account for a month or two, and then removed, with no access to do anything on the account, nor any account information, nor the ability to spend any money.

The companies I recommend has NEVER had an AU get a card and spend money on it, and they've been doing this for ten years. My previous recommendation, who has been in business four years, have also never had that happen.  Fourteen combined years, thousands and thousands of tradeline sales, zero instances of this.  I'm not worried about it happening in the slightest.

Do I need to have a good credit score?
No, not at all.  Your credit score never shows up on their account, at all.  Just the card(s) you enroll be in good standing, with no late payments ever.  The longer they've been open, the more likely someone is to purchase a tradeline on them. So the cards need to be good, but your credit itself doesn't matter.

What if the credit card company finds out? What if my card gets shut down?

That's the big (potential) drawback to this: your credit card company might close the card.  The tradeline companies I use do some things to mitigate this, like I mentioned above: having you leave the AU on for two months instead of one, limiting certain cards to only 2 tradelines (other companies that have been less likely historically to close cards they do up to 5 tradelines).

In a worst-case scenario, the credit card company may shut down other lines and accounts you have with them besides that one card, and/or refuse to issue you new cards.  Chase is the only one I'm aware of that does this, so be careful with them, but the other companies, if they shut your card down (which is rare) will likely only shut down that one single card, not any other accounts with them, nor refuse to issue you any new credit.

Will this affect my credit score?

It doesn't affect your credit report, or score, at all.  Having an Authorized User, or not, is not a criteria on a credit report/credit score. (If it did, that obviously would be biased--either for or against--someone who is married, for example, and has an AU to add.)

If your card gets shut down, that could have an impact on your score (from having less "available credit"), however it won't affect it from merely being closed--the card, even when closed, still shows up on your credit report (for I think 10 years?), and the reason closed is the same as if you called them to close it, there's no hit as to "why" it closed.  Just the potential small hit from amount of available credit (e.g. affecting DTI).

If your card isn't closed though (which, again, from what I understand, it's not common for them to get shut down), there's obviously no change to your credit score.  In fact, your score will likely go up when you first start from calling and raising up your credit limits.

Isn't this unethical?

I guess that depends on you.  When you add an authorized user, it usually asks what your relationship to the person is, and you choose: Spouse, or Other (some CCs have "Spouse, Child, Other" and similar options..., but there's always an "Other" choice from what I've seen).  I, obviously, choose other. 

Adding them, or removing them, doesn't require lying, or doing anything illegal.  You add someone online, and then call to remove them.  I actually did this the other day, I called and said "I have two authorized users on my account I'd like to remove."  The customer service lady said no problem, had me verify their names, she confirmed they were removed, I said thanks, have a good day, that was it.

It does potentially violate the credit card company's terms of service, which means they (as a recourse for that violation) can shut down your card. Okay.  I obviously don't have a problem with it.

Our credit card system in the U.S. is unique. The credit card companies make billions each year on people paying interest.  I'm not too worried about them.

One more perspective--as Meadow Lark said in her journal when someone asked about the ethical implications:
"I don't see it as fraud.  It's not illegal. I'm not saying the AU is my kid or my husband - there is no lying.  There are a lot of different ethical frameworks people have.  Within my framework, this is ethical.  It's fine if we disagree.  I believe there is nothing wrong with helping other people improve their credit.  I believe there is nothing wrong with profiting from a loop hole in a financial system that was designed to foster increased income inequality.  I could go on and on, but I don't want to bore you."

If you feel it's unethical, that's fine.  It's definitely not worth doing anything you feel is unethical simply for money.  Steer clear, in that case. :)

Okay, so what do I do to get started?

Well, you go to a trade line sales company and sign up with them.  Be careful, because some are sketchy.  Make sure you research into one that is legitimate, an actual business that has been around for several years, etc.  Look into complaints about them and such.

The companies I use, I chose because I got a good recommendation from a fellow Mustachian, researched into it, and they are totally legit.  If you decide to proceed, you will sign a contract, sign up for payroll, they 1099 you, etc.

I won't put more details here, because this post is just to introduce you to the concept of the idea, not spam/shill for a particular company.  If you want me to refer you to the companies I use, send me a PM.

After you choose a company, and sign up with them, you'll want to go to CreditKarma.com, make a list of all the cards you have, the statement close dates, credit limits, and when they were opened.

Then you'll may want to call each of the CC companies to increase the limit on the cards you have (higher limit = paid more for the trade line).

Then you just add users when you're instructed, and given the information for the AUs.

So how much actual work is it?  What does it actually look like, step-by-step? How did you calculate that dollar per hour figure in the title?

First, as above, you sign up with the company and send them the info on the credit cards you want to enroll (you don't send them numbers or anything, of course, just which cards you have--the issuing company, limit, and how lont it's been opened).

Then it looks like this:
1) You get an email that a user needs to be added.
2) You go to the website of your CC company, and add the Authorized User online (time = 2-3 min)
3) You spend $ on the card (you can use it for any normal spending, which I have done, sometimes paying a bill online or whatever with each individual card, or if I have no spending I need to do on a CC, I load my Amazon gift balance with a few bucks on the card--but the card does need to have some balance on it when it closes to have it report correctly) (time = 2-3 min)
4) After a month or two, you call up your CC company and ask to remove the AU (time=5-15 minutes, depending on how long you're on hold).

I also spend a minute or so per card plugging it into my tracking spreadsheet (see previous post for an example of my spreadsheet) when I add the user and do the spend, and when I pay the card off.

Total payment for this time = $225 (for my average card, yours might be a bit higher or lower).  Total amount of time = ~10-20 min.  Hourly rate = $700-$1300-ish per hour.

How do I report it to the IRS?

Like any other income.  If you choose a reputable trade line company, you'll get a 1099.

Warning

Let me repeat again, even though I mentioned it above: This has risks.  It is almost always against the credit card company's terms and conditions.  You should understand the risks before committing to anything like this.

They can, and very well might, shut down your account.

The way I've made my peace with it:
If someone came to me and said I'll pay you $50,000-$100,000 to shut down all your old credit cards (with the caveat that it won't hurt my credit score too much*), would you do it?  Heck yes, I would! I'd jump on that deal in a heartbeat.  So even if, over the next few years, ALL my CCs I'm using end up getting shut down (which I'm highly doubtful of), I'd accept that trade.

*It wouldn't affect my credit score much at all--the cards would still stay on my credit report for 10 years, and I'd still have other cards (like Amex, which aren't in this program) boosting my score.  It'd just hurt my DTI since I'd have less available credit, but I don't have any CC debt anyways, so my utilization is always near 0 anyways, plus I can open new cards.  I do all the time anyways, for travel hacking.

So you'll pay me tens of thousands of dollars in order to shut down my older cards, but leave them on my credit report, but just have to open some new ones to increase my available credit again, and start those aging?

Great!

Heck, the only reason I have those old cards is to boost my credit score--I have no use for them otherwise.  So if it'll still stay on my credit report for 10 years, still showing a long, positive payment history, then why not use them to make money with them also?

Yes, I'll take that trade.  Especially given that the cards may not necessarily be shut down, and you can stop doing it any time.

So, like I said, I don't know which, if any, cards will get shut down.  If some do, maybe I'll stop with the rest at that point, maybe I won't, but I've made my peace with the fact that the CC companies don't like it, and may shut it down, by thinking of it in those terms.  I'd absolutely take that trade, so why not try it out for the next year or two and see what happens?

Again, if you want a referral to the companies I use, feel free to PM me, but I don't want this to turn into spam/shilling for certain companies--we've already seen high traffic for it from Google, and I know from being contacted that it's on the radar of some of those companies, and I'd rather keep the spam out.

This sounds pretty awesome, how do I get started?

If you want a referral to the tradeline companies I recommend, Click Here To Send Me a PM.

I think that just about covers everything.

Feel free to post any questions you have and I'd be happy to answer.

Please see the next post for more details on the companies I recommend.

If you want to read more discussion around the legality, ethics, and lots of random questions from when this first started on the forums years ago, go read the old thread on this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

August 2024 update:

Spoiler: show

Someone posted his/her experience as a new user in August 2024, and I thought it was worth sharing.

Late to the dance, but I'm going to experiment with Trade Lines.  First off, thanks to Joe (areblespy) for starting this threat and connecting me with 2 companies.  For anyone else contemplating or new to this endeavor, maybe this can help with where things stand for someone new to start like me mid-2024.  I just think of all the years I've missed this and can only say oh well, better late than never!!

I've reached out the the 'old' and 'new' companies suggested and both responded within a day.  The old company said their enrollment was closed, but I should still send them what cards I wanted to use (card name, issuer, limit, and opened date).  I sent 2 today and I'll see if they are interested.  The new company had the additional requirement of having me run a credit report for the cards I want to use with them.  I'll see if the old company uses my 2 cards.  If they're not interested, I'll sent those cards plus 3-4 more to the new company.
...
The old company currently uses the following issuers at this time: Alliant CU, Bank of America, Barclays, Chase, Discover, Elan/Fidelity, Huntington Bank, PNC, US Bank. 

The new company is accepting:  Bank of America, Barclays, Capital One, Chase, Citi, Discover, PNC and US Bank. 
...
Hope this helps others, and I'll report back as things progress.

Full post here: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/selling-tradelines-piggybacking-part-ii-$1000hr-20-40kyr-side-gig/msg3282327/#msg3282327

[arebelspy]

[Redacted out of date information about tradeline company comparisons.]

Choosing a Tradeline Company

There are a lot of bad actors in this industry. Scams at worst, but often just people looking to make a quick buck, not worrying about doing things the "right" way.

I've researched probably 15-20 tradeline companies, and have only found two that I think properly protect the cardholders (you, the one selling the tradelines) via their vetting of Authorized Users to help prevent fraud, have good information security (protect your information properly via good IT security practices), and have been in business long enough to be trustworthy.

If you decide to try out the many choices in tradeline companies out there, please do your due diligence on the company. Downside scenarios include a much higher likelihood of your cards getting closed, but worse, potentially participating in fraud (versus the lengths the good companies go to avoid that, as a protection for you).

If you want a referral to the two tradeline companies I recommend, Click Here To Send Me a PM.

[arebelspy]

This post reserved for later edits/updates/information.  Basically just a placeholder post, in case I need to add another giant wall of text with new information/updates that I can edit later.  :)

For now, just one piece of information to explain:

Why am I posting this?

When I posted this information originally in July, it caused the first company to get flooded, and immediately affected my tradeline sales, cutting down the amount I was making.  (The extra money made in referrals by those who used me as a referral helps some, but did not make up for this, as each referral is a fraction of a tradeline sale.)

It was suggested to me shortly after posting the thread for everyone that I should delete it, to keep the tradeline site from having even more new people added.  Similarly, it was recently suggested to me that, if I found a new good site, there was no reason I had to post it.

But I did not agree, and I still posted the above information, obviously, and here's why:
1) I would not feel right moving my cards from a company I recommended to a new company, but leaving all the people I had recommended to sit with the old company I was no longer using.  Even though I still feel comfortable with that company, and WOULD use them, just quietly moving my cards and saying nothing feels wrong, to me.  (For this same reason, I feel obligated to contact people I recommended the old company to, in order to let them know I've switched--it's more work, but I feel I have an obligation to let them know that I am no longer using that company.)

2) As I said in the OP, Mustachians have thousands of dollars in the last 5.5 months since I posted the original thread.  That's awesome, to me.  I wouldn't be surprised to see that number shoot up this upcoming year, in 2017.  It gives me warm fuzzies to think of all that money going towards debt payoff, or towards accelerating Mustachians' FIRE paths, or helping reduce sequence of returns risk for a recently FIRE'd Mustachian.

The alternate is those tradeline sales would be going to other credit card holders with those companies, and in all likelihood, they're consumer suckers wasting that money.  Boooo.

Even if I'm making a little less personally, of all of those tradelines sales Mustachians are making, only a few are coming from ones I would have gotten, but many more are coming from those other consumer suckers.  Less for me, but much better in the aggregate for Mustachians!

3) I got a PM from another member several months ago who had made several tradeline sales since I referred them.  Part of that PM said:

Personally, I'm experiencing a lot of health problems this year that, even though I've been fairly mustachian my whole life, cost more than my disability income covers, so the TLs are a huge help there and also help me feel less stressed about mounting medical bills... This way, I can keep chipping away at them.

So THANK YOU!

That totally made not only my day, but my week, and I still get happy when I think about it.

The bottom line is that I feel more affinity towards this community than I do towards a little more money, so why not spread the love?

So go forth, Mustachians.  Sell tradelines, earn awesome side-gig money, and use it in financially smart ways.  And send me a PM when you do, cause I love to hear it.  :)

[DavidAnnArbor]

Thanks for the write up.

[Polak_maly]

I got my Citi card cancelled this way on the 3rd month, with only 2 AUs on the card at the time. So there are risks indeed. Make sure to use cards which you're not using on daily basis.

[boarder42]

*

[arebelspy]

Thanks for the write up.

No problem.  I'd be doing the research anyways, for my own use with my cards and my wife's, so better to type up and sharing with others.

I got my Citi card cancelled this way on the 3rd month, with only 2 AUs on the card at the time. So there are risks indeed. Make sure to use cards which you're not using on daily basis.

You're literally the first Mustachian out of dozens to report this.  So it's definitely not common.  It is absolutely a risk though, and mentioned several times in the OP.  Don't sell tradelines on a card you can't handle being cancelled.  If you're okay with the possibility of it being cancelled, it's quite lucrative to sell tradelines while you can.  :)

EDIT: We PM'd, and it turns out Polak_maly was using a different tradeline company than either of the two I recommend, and his card was shut down after just a few months.  This is the issue that I have with other companies--they don't verify their users the way the two I recommend (the old, and new, recommendations) do.  Which means higher instances of fraud, and much higher shutdown rates.

That's why there are only two I can recommend, and why I had to do so much research first, because otherwise it's a much higher risk.  I can't find any other businesses taking the precautions/safeguards they do.  :)

Not worth getting cards shut down in a few months, to me, especially if you can go with a reputable company rather than a shady one, and keep it going for a long time.  And that's why no other Mustachians reported shut downs on their cards--they were using the safer, recommended company.

Hope that helps put a few minds at ease.  :)

Though, as I said in the OP, and this reply, shutdowns CAN and DO happen.  They're just much less likely if you use the right companies.

[kpd905]

Which CC companies allow you to add and remove AUs online?  I have only used Discovery so far.

[arebelspy]

Which CC companies allow you to add and remove AUs online?  I have only used Discovery so far.

Barclays lets you do both, and Chase.

B of A lets you add online, but you have to call to remove.

Capital One can definitely add online, and I think lets you remove, but I can't remember 100%.

Discover, like you said, lets you do both.

Can't say for Citi or any of the other ones, hopefully someone else will chime in.

[Rubic]

Posting to follow.

[tj]

Which CC companies allow you to add and remove AUs online?  I have only used Discovery so far.

Barclays lets you do both, and Chase.

B of A lets you add online, but you have to call to remove.

Capital One can definitely add online, and I think lets you remove, but I can't remember 100%.

Discover, like you said, lets you do both.

Can't say for Citi or any of the other ones, hopefully someone else will chime in.

Citi definitely lets you add AU's online. I also got a (no pull) slight CLI online. :D

[Txtriathlete]

What, in your opinion and research is the minimum marketable age of a card?

I have not historically maintained a large number of credit cards, We have one we use for household and another for travel, plus a third that was issued as overdraft protection that we never use. Two of these are from the companies listed, but neither is a card I want shut down in the event of problems. I *could* open a few new CC accounts over the next several months to just sell tradelines against. Would they be marketable?

Thank you for posting this. I read the other thread but quickly got "lost in the sauce" with all the comments, this is a very nice summary and recommendation.

[TomTX]

Thanks again for the research and write-up.

[ss17]

Which CC companies allow you to add and remove AUs online? 
Here's the one's I know:
US Bank: Fax/mail form to add AUs
BOA: Add online, Call to remove
Cap One: Add online, Call to remove

[ss17]

Does anyone know if the new company can use Business Cards?  I'm guessing not, but it would be nice since I have several with large limits.

[merula]

Thank you, ARS! I've sold 3 tradelines so far, though if I count time spent reading the thread as work, I'm probably down to about $50/hr. :)

What, in your opinion and research is the minimum marketable age of a card?

I have not historically maintained a large number of credit cards, We have one we use for household and another for travel, plus a third that was issued as overdraft protection that we never use. Two of these are from the companies listed, but neither is a card I want shut down in the event of problems. I *could* open a few new CC accounts over the next several months to just sell tradelines against. Would they be marketable?

Thank you for posting this. I read the other thread but quickly got "lost in the sauce" with all the comments, this is a very nice summary and recommendation.

I also don't typically have a lot of cards open. One thing I'm looking at is getting a new "everyday" card and then using the old one for selling tradelines. It doesn't really matter from a rewards standpoint if my everyday card is 2 years or 2 months old, but it clearly matters from a tradeline standpoint.

Another thing you can do, if you have a SO that you combine finances with (you did say "we"), is get a new version of the same type of card in their name, and moving the one in your name to tradelines.

[Joel]

Posting to follow. I may give this a shot on some of the credit cards we no longer use.

Would I need to open one account for me and one account for my wife? (Some of the cards are in my name and some of the cards are in her name)

[enginerd1986]

Thanks again, Joe. You really take much of your time researching and writing this information out. I feel as though we are mooching off of your efforts. Hopefully, we'll all be able to return the favor in the future or at least help others in the way that you have helped us. Best wishes in 2017!

T.

[hoping2retire35]

here

[NinetyFour]

Following.  Thanks, Joe!

[FrugalZony]

Thanks a ton for the write up ARS!
And for sharing your research and being transparent about moving!

I hope I can get in this time. Last time, by the time I had done enough of my own research to feel comfortable, they were not accepting any new signups anymore / yet.
I only have one card I want to use for this in the first place.

Also, little side note: You seem to be recommending Credit Karma a lot.
You have a blog.
As a blogger you can apply for affiliate networks.
Credit Karma has affiliate links...
I think it gives you only like 25 cents or so per person signing up.
I'll have to look, I applied with them a few weeks ago.
But anyhoo. If you are planning on writing more about this on the future you may want to consider signing up for that as well.
I bet a lot of folks (including myself) signed up for Credit Karma because of your recommendation...
It's not much in comparison what the other referral fees are, but it's something ;)
Just saying!

[MEJG]

Thanks for doing all this work and sharing!

[tj]

Here's my question:

Do the issuers auto-mail AU cards to the primary address on file? I know ARS moves around a lot, but if you don't want your family or whoever to deal with all this extra mail, does it make sense to wait until location stationary, or is there not really any extra mail to deal with?

[MasterStache]

Thanks for the write up Joe and all your hard work!!

I only have one card but it's 10+ years old and just increased credit limit to over 20K. Keeping my finger crossed I can get in on some of this action. Sent all my info in and just waiting to hear back.

[sirdoug007]

I'll add to the chorus of thanks for this intense research (while claiming to be retired, ha! ;).

I'd bet this community in total has made well into the six figures since the first thread was posted with minimal effort.  I'm looking forward to getting my Bank of America card into the action.  I also just asked for a credit line increase on my old Discover Card and now it is over $20k!!

Cheers for sharing the awesome side gig!

[Joel]

How many authorized users does Chase and Capital One allow?

[mxt0133]

Just called up my oldest credit card to bump up the limit and give this bad boy a trial run.  Thanks for the write up Arebelspy.

[kudy]

My big question for you arebelspy - are you selling AU spots on your Chase cards? I got scared away from doing this with Chase by Greg at Camp Mustache! :)

[tj]

My big question for you arebelspy - are you selling AU spots on your Chase cards? I got scared away from doing this with Chase by Greg at Camp Mustache! :)

From the previous thread http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/selling-tradelines-piggybacking-$600hr-20-40kyr-side-gig/msg1352939/#msg1352939

I do not use Chase personally, as discussed earlier in this thread, as I don't want to risk getting it shut down (I have 500k+ UR points that would go poof). I do use B of A, Capital One, Discover, etc. because I don't care if those cards get shut down.

Other people do use Chase, because they're okay with the risk of Chase closing their cards.

[secondcor521]

Which CC companies allow you to add and remove AUs online?  I have only used Discovery so far.

Barclays lets you do both, and Chase.

B of A lets you add online, but you have to call to remove.

Capital One can definitely add online, and I think lets you remove, but I can't remember 100%.

Discover, like you said, lets you do both.

Can't say for Citi or any of the other ones, hopefully someone else will chime in.

USAA is a phone call both to add and remove.

[secondcor521]

What, in your opinion and research is the minimum marketable age of a card?

The new company apparently accepts cards that are least 1 year old and at least $5K credit limit, with more money paid for older cards and for larger limits.

The previous company accepts cards that are at least 2 years old and $10K minimum credit limit, also with more money paid for older cards and for larger limits.

There is a chart of the payouts earlier in the thread.  It's up to you to decide if the payments are worth the effort.

[secondcor521]

Does anyone know if the new company can use Business Cards?  I'm guessing not, but it would be nice since I have several with large limits.

I asked them this, and they confirmed that they cannot use business cards because they don't post to personal credit histories.

They also confirmed that they cannot use AMEX-issued cards because the AMEX-issued cards don't post the year the card was opened to the AU's credit history (and, I'm inferring, don't boost the AU's credit score).

(I also have several business and AMEX-issued cards that would otherwise qualify.)

[secondcor521]

How many authorized users does Chase and Capital One allow?

I don't know how many AU's Chase and Capital One allow.  However, the company ARS is recommending in this thread (the new one) says that they only add 2-3 AUs every three months on Chase and Capital One lines because those issuers are more twitchy and likely to close down your line.

Note that I believe that is 2-3 AU's per three months per line.  So if you had five credit cards at Chase, you could add between 10-15 AU's every three months.

Also, other issuers are not as twitchy and you can sell more spots per line with those other issuers.

Finally, at least with the old company you could specify fewer slots if you wanted to.  I would guess the new company would be able to limit how many slots they sold on any given line, but I don't know that for sure.  (Not a question for me, as I am willing to go as far as the new company and my CC issuers will let me.)

[arebelspy]

Thanks tj & ss17 for posting/confirming info on which let you add online.

What, in your opinion and research is the minimum marketable age of a card?

They need to be aged at least a year with this new company (old one was two years).  Beyond that piece of info, I couldn't tell you yet about the demand for those cards.  Since this new company takes ones that are 12-24 months old, we'll get Mustachians enrolling some reporting back on if they're selling many lines on them or not.  We'll crowdsource the knowledge.  :)

I am considering opening new cards for this now, something I wasn't before (and haven't, in the last six months, other than for normal travel hacking--e.g. 2 SW cards for Companion Pass, Chase Sapphire Reserve, etc.).

Does anyone know if the new company can use Business Cards?  I'm guessing not, but it would be nice since I have several with large limits.

None of them do.  Amex cards, and business cards (from any provider) report differently (or not at all), and so the credit score boost typically won't happen. I also have a lot in business (and Amex) credit, but unfortunately it's not usable for this.

Makes me more okay with any cards getting cancelled though.  :)

Thank you, ARS! I've sold 3 tradelines so far, though if I count time spent reading the thread as work, I'm probably down to about $50/hr. :)

Haha, good point.

I don't even want to count my time per hour if I take out the research, typing of info, replying to the thread, etc.  I think it's above minimum wage though.  ;)

I also don't typically have a lot of cards open. One thing I'm looking at is getting a new "everyday" card and then using the old one for selling tradelines. It doesn't really matter from a rewards standpoint if my everyday card is 2 years or 2 months old, but it clearly matters from a tradeline standpoint.

Another thing you can do, if you have a SO that you combine finances with (you did say "we"), is get a new version of the same type of card in their name, and moving the one in your name to tradelines.

That's a good idea--if your "everyday card" is eligible for tradelining... get a new everyday card.  :)

Would I need to open one account for me and one account for my wife? (Some of the cards are in my name and some of the cards are in her name)

Yes, though you can use the same email.  But since it's all taxable income, you'll get separate 1099s.  I opened an account for both myself and my wife (with both companies).

Thanks again, Joe. You really take much of your time researching and writing this information out. I feel as though we are mooching off of your efforts. Hopefully, we'll all be able to return the favor in the future or at least help others in the way that you have helped us.

No worries!  I'd be doing the research anyways for my own purposes and peace of mind for enrolling my own cards, so I might as well share it with the community, too!  :)

Also, little side note: You seem to be recommending Credit Karma a lot.
You have a blog.
As a blogger you can apply for affiliate networks.
Credit Karma has affiliate links...
I think it gives you only like 25 cents or so per person signing up.
I'll have to look, I applied with them a few weeks ago.
But anyhoo. If you are planning on writing more about this on the future you may want to consider signing up for that as well.
I bet a lot of folks (including myself) signed up for Credit Karma because of your recommendation...
It's not much in comparison what the other referral fees are, but it's something ;)
Just saying!

As a rule, I'm not a huge fan of affiliate links.

For example, I have a "Best Real Estate" books thread on this forum that I know many MANY people have bought books from.  But I don't use affiliate links.

This (selling tradelines) is an exception because it did take a lot of work to research and share, and because it doesn't decrease your payments either way (actually with the new company, you'll get paid more in two categories).

I recommend Credit Karma because: It's free. It gets you all the information you need for this. It is a good way to track your credit report changes and score in general.  In other words, I like the product, and am happy to recommend them, but my general feeling of not wanting to use affiliate links means I don't use an affiliate link.  It's also why I feel the need to put the disclaimer multiple times, make sure people understand they don't HAVE to put me as a referral, I'll share the info either way, and if they want to use me, they can.

Maybe I'll rethink that not using other affiliate links at some point, but my default is always to provide a non-affiliate link.  :)

Good to know thought, thanks!  Definitely worth thinking about for the blog, since all those profits go to charity.

Do the issuers auto-mail AU cards to the primary address on file? I know ARS moves around a lot, but if you don't want your family or whoever to deal with all this extra mail, does it make sense to wait until location stationary, or is there not really any extra mail to deal with?

Some issue you a card (to your address, not the AU's, of course), some ask if you want a card issued (like Discover), and you can say no (or uncheck a box).  I always go ahead and have them send one, because I feel like it might be a red flag to NOT get one, but I have zero evidence for this.

I use a mail scanning service called TravelingMailbox, so I just have them shred it for me.  I've never gotten any mail related to an AU except their card (or the occasional one page letter from a bank confirming "We received your request for an AU, and they've been added).  The extra "mail" amounts to about one piece per tradeline.  How much that is for you depends on how many tradelines you sell.  But quite minimal.

How many authorized users does Chase and Capital One allow?

They allow a LOT.  Like, at least 10, maybe more at a time (99?).  You'll just get shut down quickly.  :)

Those are on the lower end, around 2-3 every 2-3 months (versus, say, Barclays where you can do 3-5 a month).

My big question for you arebelspy - are you selling AU spots on your Chase cards? I got scared away from doing this with Chase by Greg at Camp Mustache! :)

I don't, currently.

I did with the first company a few times, then decided it wasn't worth it because I have a ton of UR points I don't want to disappear if the card is cancelled.  If I ever get those spent down, I'd consider it.

I DID use Chase again with this new company to test it out.  They have a "pairing" system, where you add an AU with another of your cards, and then add them with the Chase, so that the Chase posts correctly, and I wanted to try that out to be able to discuss/recommend it to anyone wanting to sell Chase lines.  But then I removed it again after trying that.


I think I got all the questions, but if I missed something, it wasn't on purpose, just a lot to reply to--feel free to just repost a question if I missed it.  :)

EDIT: Thanks secondcor!  Should have refreshed the thread while typing and saved myself some time.  :)

One caveat on Chase: It is per line (card), but more of those leads to more liklihood they'll notice. While I have multiple B of As enrolled, Discover, etc... I would (and did) only use one Chase card, despite having a lot.  What I did is transfer a bunch of my Chase credit onto one (my oldest) Chase card, and only enroll that.  You can use a bunch, but doing that might help sort of balance and mitigate the risk of getting shut down and still wanting to make money with them.

[dragoncar]

So when signing up, what if I already have 1-2 AUs on the card?  A few I have my wife, or other family member.

Anyone know how to see current AUs on Chase?  It's obvious how to add one, but not how to remove

For Discover, has anyone used the "freeze account" option?

Apologies if this was answered in the old thread. 

[tj]

Which CC companies allow you to add and remove AUs online?  I have only used Discovery so far.

Barclays lets you do both, and Chase.

B of A lets you add online, but you have to call to remove.

Capital One can definitely add online, and I think lets you remove, but I can't remember 100%.

Discover, like you said, lets you do both.

Can't say for Citi or any of the other ones, hopefully someone else will chime in.

USAA is a phone call both to add and remove.

Have you had any pushback? I don't know if it's worth doing this with USAA because I don't want to risk losing my insurance policies. Similarly, I wouldn't be doing this was a bank that I had a cehcking or savings account (i'd generally advise against having deposit accounts at banks you use credit with anyway.)

[VladTheImpaler]

Thanks for the write up Arebelspy.

[secondcor521]

Which CC companies allow you to add and remove AUs online?  I have only used Discovery so far.

Barclays lets you do both, and Chase.

B of A lets you add online, but you have to call to remove.

Capital One can definitely add online, and I think lets you remove, but I can't remember 100%.

Discover, like you said, lets you do both.

Can't say for Citi or any of the other ones, hopefully someone else will chime in.

USAA is a phone call both to add and remove.

Have you had any pushback? I don't know if it's worth doing this with USAA because I don't want to risk losing my insurance policies. Similarly, I wouldn't be doing this was a bank that I had a cehcking or savings account (i'd generally advise against having deposit accounts at banks you use credit with anyway.)

Yes.  I think I mentioned it in the old thread, but I had three AU's to add to my USAA card - which already had two AUs from the previous month - and was under the impression that it was best if I added one per call.  So I called, added the first new AU, then hung up.  I called back a second time a day later and added the second new AU, then hung up.  When I called to add the final AU, they put me through to a very distrustful fraud guy who asked me quite a number of authentication questions and asked me why I wanted to add so many AU's.  Eventually, though, they did add the final AU.

I bank and have credit at many banks, but my main checking account plus my insurance products are at USAA.  If they close my USAA credit card, that would be OK.  Closing my bank account or my insurance lines would be more problematic.  I haven't heard of the latter happening, but maybe it could.

[kpd905]

Someone asked this above, but with the new company can you request to have less than the maximum number of AU's on each card?  I'd like to do 3-4 instead of 5 just to lower the chances of getting shut down.

[arebelspy]

Someone asked this above, but with the new company can you request to have less than the maximum number of AU's on each card?  I'd like to do 3-4 instead of 5 just to lower the chances of getting shut down.

Absolutely.  Let them know what you would like, and request that they add that to the "notes" field in your file.  :)

[CanuckExpat]

Thanks for the info and all the work on research.

If anyone wants some other data-points, wife and I have had 5 cards active on the "old recommendation" since about August, and have had four tradeline sales in that time for roughly $1000 in revenue. Not bad for some clicking around. I had a quick sale on Chase (which was removed after some changes) and no bites since then, wife has had a few more sales on her cards (higher limits and longer credit histories).

I'm thinking about moving some cards to the "new recommendation", including ones that might not be supported, after gathering more information my self.

[arebelspy]

If anyone wants some other data-points, wife and I have had 5 cards active on the "old recommendation" since about August, and have had four tradeline sales in that time for roughly $1000 in revenue. Not bad for some clicking around. I had a quick sale on Chase (which was removed after some changes) and no bites since then, wife has had a few more sales on her cards (higher limits and longer credit histories).

Yeah, I think a lot of people saw a handful of sales; I think the new company should be able to handle the volume better.  :)

I'm thinking about moving some cards to the "new recommendation", including ones that might not be supported

What do you mean by this?

[dlawson]

Has anyone tried opening new cards from issuers where you already have an open line, waiting six months, and then consolidating the new card's credit limit into the older card? Essentially a way to fast-track into higher payout tiers in combination with normal CLI requests.

[arebelspy]

Has anyone tried opening new cards from issuers where you already have an open line, waiting six months, and then consolidating the new card's credit limit into the older card? Essentially a way to fast-track into higher payout tiers in combination with normal CLI requests.

I didn't open specifically for this, but happy coincidence opened one for travel hacking.  After hitting the minimum spend, I immediately transferred all of its credit (minus a token $1000) to an older card enrolled in tradeline sales.

We did discuss this idea previously, and I toyed with opening just for this purpose, but never did.

[boarder42]

Has anyone tried opening new cards from issuers where you already have an open line, waiting six months, and then consolidating the new card's credit limit into the older card? Essentially a way to fast-track into higher payout tiers in combination with normal CLI requests.

I didn't open specifically for this, but happy coincidence opened one for travel hacking.  After hitting the minimum spend, I immediately transferred all of its credit (minus a token $1000) to an older card enrolled in tradeline sales.

We did discuss this idea previously, and I toyed with opening just for this purpose, but never did.

i did this with my bofa cards but the 2 cards i got were so i could travel hack then before i canceled i consolidated to the other 2 older cards i have in the system.

[CanuckExpat]

I'm thinking about moving some cards to the "new recommendation", including ones that might not be supported

What do you mean by this?

Chase, and cards with limits too small or credit histories too young for "old recommendation" but which would be sold by "new recommendation"

[solon]

starting to salivate... I pm'd you, rebs, send me the referral!

[medinaj2160]

Has anyone heard anything back from the new company? I sent them an email two days ago.

[ZagNation]

Finally got around to registering so I can become an active member of the MMM community. Well underway on my FIRE journey and 2017 will mark the year when my NW becomes positive. Adding an additional income stream to the mix will certainly help and I cannot wait to put my old cards to good use. Such an incredibly valuable post ARS, thank you kindly!

[NinetyFour]

Has anyone heard anything back from the new company? I sent them an email two days ago.

I e-mailed them early on 12/29 and heard back before noon that day.  Today I e-mailed again with the required docs and got an auto reply that they are closed until 1/3 for the holiday.