Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking Part II: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig

[aasdfadsf]

Do all of the Good allow for adding and removing online?

I'm afraid I don't know that. "Good", in my collection, simply means that they don't tend to close your account for using TLs. As in, it's a "safe" card that doesn't tend to get shut down. And that's only based on what people here have said, I've got no special knowledge of it.

[secondcor521]

For what it's worth, I've kept a running file based entirely off of what I've seen on this 123 page thread about what cards are likely to work and which ones won't. I'll post it here for anyone's edification, but I will not vouch for it nor can I say it's up to date, though nothing I've seen lately obviously overturns it all. If anyone knows better, just say so and I'll update my file:

Good:

Discover
TD Bank
Barclays
PNC
Associated Bank
Amex
Wells Fargo (not currently accepted)

Do all of the Good allow for adding and removing online?

No.  Well at least not per Good Company.  Their documentation says PNC is phone only.  I have a PNC card just recently enrolled, but no AU sales yet so can't confirm that yet.

USBank owns Elan, but the two act independently as far as I can tell.

As far as the list goes, I think the picture is far more nuanced.  Barclays doesn't seem to care a whit about AU activity, but they have a lifetime limit which I find pesky, although now I know how to deal with it.  Chase is famous for closing down all cards, but I have my highest limit, oldest, best commission card with them that sells well and a second card that also does well and I've not yet been shut down (knock wood).  USBank is not particularly known for shutdowns but they shut down both of my cards with them for AU activity...but then shortly after gave me two more cards.  BofA is known for shutting folks down more frequently, but they haven't hit me yet, and philosophically I don't care because I have plenty of cards and don't have a very good opinion of BofA as a business (among other things they don't reallocate credit lines among personal cards without a hard credit pull, which I find a ridiculous policy).  Discover sometimes asks for AU documentation apparently, which I imagine to be a hassle.  Some issuers are easier to add/remove, but may not give as generous of credit lines and thus may have lower commissions.  With some issuers the Good Company requires longer cycles (keeping the AU on for 4 months instead of three, for example).  With some issuers the Good Company allows more slots.  Some issuers might have some cards with good signup bonuses that can then be piggybacked later.  Some issuers seem to have more difficulty posting to the AU's credit reports.

Overall my experience is that all the issuers have pros and cons.  Some on average are better than others but all the ones I've had (which is most of them that Good Company accepts) are at least reasonable enough to work with based on the amount of effort involved compared to the payments.  I have a long, littered credit card history from playing CC games for decades, and I have a lot of piggybacking cards going currently.  My current practice is to look at which issuers I don't have a full slate of piggybacking cards with yet, then see which of those I think I can get more CL with, then look at DoC to see which cards at those issuers have a decent sign up bonus.  But that's just my approach, YMMV based on your situation.

[BC_Goldman]

Looking forward to hearing what ARS thinks of the potential new new company.

[dantheman46]

For PNC, you can add via online banking but you have to call in to remove them.

[WayDownSouth]

For what it's worth, I've kept a running file based entirely off of what I've seen on this 123 page thread about what cards are likely to work and which ones won't. I'll post it here for anyone's edification, but I will not vouch for it nor can I say it's up to date, though nothing I've seen lately obviously overturns it all. If anyone knows better, just say so and I'll update my file:

Good:

Discover
TD Bank
Barclays
PNC
Associated Bank
Amex
Wells Fargo (not currently accepted)

Do all of the Good allow for adding and removing online?

No.  Well at least not per Good Company.  Their documentation says PNC is phone only.  I have a PNC card just recently enrolled, but no AU sales yet so can't confirm that yet.

USBank owns Elan, but the two act independently as far as I can tell.

As far as the list goes, I think the picture is far more nuanced.  Barclays doesn't seem to care a whit about AU activity, but they have a lifetime limit which I find pesky, although now I know how to deal with it.  Chase is famous for closing down all cards, but I have my highest limit, oldest, best commission card with them that sells well and a second card that also does well and I've not yet been shut down (knock wood).  USBank is not particularly known for shutdowns but they shut down both of my cards with them for AU activity...but then shortly after gave me two more cards.  BofA is known for shutting folks down more frequently, but they haven't hit me yet, and philosophically I don't care because I have plenty of cards and don't have a very good opinion of BofA as a business (among other things they don't reallocate credit lines among personal cards without a hard credit pull, which I find a ridiculous policy).  Discover sometimes asks for AU documentation apparently, which I imagine to be a hassle.  Some issuers are easier to add/remove, but may not give as generous of credit lines and thus may have lower commissions.  With some issuers the Good Company requires longer cycles (keeping the AU on for 4 months instead of three, for example).  With some issuers the Good Company allows more slots.  Some issuers might have some cards with good signup bonuses that can then be piggybacked later.  Some issuers seem to have more difficulty posting to the AU's credit reports.

Overall my experience is that all the issuers have pros and cons.  Some on average are better than others but all the ones I've had (which is most of them that Good Company accepts) are at least reasonable enough to work with based on the amount of effort involved compared to the payments.  I have a long, littered credit card history from playing CC games for decades, and I have a lot of piggybacking cards going currently.  My current practice is to look at which issuers I don't have a full slate of piggybacking cards with yet, then see which of those I think I can get more CL with, then look at DoC to see which cards at those issuers have a decent sign up bonus.  But that's just my approach, YMMV based on your situation.

I've seen a couple people here mentioning companies asking for documentation of authorized users. This is, in fact, illegal for them to do, in accordance with the following:

12 CFR Part 1002 - Equal Credit Opportunity Act (Regulation B)

7(a) Individual accounts.

2. Open-end credit - choice of authorized user: A creditor that permits an account holder to designate an authorized user may not restrict this designation on a prohibited basis. For example, if the creditor allows the designation of spouses as authorized users, the creditor may not refuse to accept a non-spouse as an authorized user.

That is the law itself as updated August 29 of this year. Nothing new. When they ask for documentation, ask for their full name, then request to speak with a manager. Tell the manager that your brother-in-law is a top litigation lawyer and you'd hate to see a lawsuit over something so petty such as adding your friend to your credit card, especially when "John Doe" (the employee who you spoke with already) and "Jane Doe" (the manager you're NOW speaking with) are currently breaking federal law and not only have no right to request such documents, but have done so and could easily lose their careers over this. They'll add your AU right away and apologize, trust me.

Note: ONLY DO THIS IF 7(a) part 2 applies to you! Simple.

Edit because I'd like to mention that what I said above would be my personal approach to dealing with that situation. With that said, by asking for documentation they're breaking the rules of a federal act - whether they know it or not. By calling them out on that, your result may vary so don't take my example as legal advice or any kind of guarantee. Just wanted to make the facts clear.

[aasdfadsf]

As far as the list goes, I think the picture is far more nuanced.

Of course, as it should be. It's just a hot and dirty list giving an idea of what cards are or aren't likely to get closed, but your more specific explanations are very useful. I want everyone to keep telling about their own experiences.

It's also the case that the list was originated for my own use. There are some things, like Chase shutting down all your accounts, that I simply cannot risk. I have a Chase card that my spouse and I use jointly for many household expenses, and I'm not going to chance having to explain to my better half what the hell I did to get our accounts closed. Other people will have a different risk tolerance.

Discover sometimes asks for AU documentation apparently, which I imagine to be a hassle.

Oooh, I know this one! They ask for SS number, full name, birth date, and address. And all of that has to be correct or else. This is not a hassle as far as I'm concerned, because Old Company gives you all of this information and you just copy it over. Can't say about other companies. Removal with Discover is a simple click.   

[MoseyingAlong]

I've seen a couple people here mentioning companies asking for documentation of authorized users. This is, in fact, illegal for them to do, in accordance with the following:

12 CFR Part 1002 - Equal Credit Opportunity Act (Regulation B)

7(a) Individual accounts.

2. Open-end credit - choice of authorized user: A creditor that permits an account holder to designate an authorized user may not restrict this designation on a prohibited basis. For example, if the creditor allows the designation of spouses as authorized users, the creditor may not refuse to accept a non-spouse as an authorized user.

That is the law itself as updated August 29 of this year. Nothing new. When they ask for documentation, ask for their full name, then request to speak with a manager. Tell the manager that your brother-in-law is a top litigation lawyer and you'd hate to see a lawsuit over something so petty such as adding your friend to your credit card, especially when "John Doe" (the employee who you spoke with already) and "Jane Doe" (the manager you're NOW speaking with) are currently breaking federal law and not only have no right to request such documents, but have done so and could easily lose their careers over this. They'll add your AU right away and apologize, trust me.

Note: ONLY DO THIS IF 7(a) part 2 applies to you! Simple.

Edit because I'd like to mention that what I said above would be my personal approach to dealing with that situation. With that said, by asking for documentation they're breaking the rules of a federal act - whether they know it or not. By calling them out on that, your result may vary so don't take my example as legal advice or any kind of guarantee. Just wanted to make the facts clear.

I believe the above is incorrect.
By asking for documentation, the financial institution is theoretically doing their due diligence to know their client and prevent identity theft/fraud.
They are not asking for proof of relationship, such as being a spouse or family member, which is what the above-quoted regulation is about.
i.e. I do not recommend threatening the agents.

[WayDownSouth]

I've seen a couple people here mentioning companies asking for documentation of authorized users. This is, in fact, illegal for them to do, in accordance with the following:

12 CFR Part 1002 - Equal Credit Opportunity Act (Regulation B)

7(a) Individual accounts.

2. Open-end credit - choice of authorized user: A creditor that permits an account holder to designate an authorized user may not restrict this designation on a prohibited basis. For example, if the creditor allows the designation of spouses as authorized users, the creditor may not refuse to accept a non-spouse as an authorized user.

That is the law itself as updated August 29 of this year. Nothing new. When they ask for documentation, ask for their full name, then request to speak with a manager. Tell the manager that your brother-in-law is a top litigation lawyer and you'd hate to see a lawsuit over something so petty such as adding your friend to your credit card, especially when "John Doe" (the employee who you spoke with already) and "Jane Doe" (the manager you're NOW speaking with) are currently breaking federal law and not only have no right to request such documents, but have done so and could easily lose their careers over this. They'll add your AU right away and apologize, trust me.

Note: ONLY DO THIS IF 7(a) part 2 applies to you! Simple.

Edit because I'd like to mention that what I said above would be my personal approach to dealing with that situation. With that said, by asking for documentation they're breaking the rules of a federal act - whether they know it or not. By calling them out on that, your result may vary so don't take my example as legal advice or any kind of guarantee. Just wanted to make the facts clear.

I believe the above is incorrect.
By asking for documentation, the financial institution is theoretically doing their due diligence to know their client and prevent identity theft/fraud.
They are not asking for proof of relationship, such as being a spouse or family member, which is what the above-quoted regulation is about.
i.e. I do not recommend threatening the agents.

I disagree because 99% of the time they don't ask for this info when adding an authorized user. Why on certain occasions and only with certain customers? The AU is NOT technically a client of the bank and the primary holds full responsibility. It's my opinion that card issuers are attempting to strong-arm randomly chosen clients into providing documentation that they could otherwise easily find in any database. They're not directly asking for proof of relationship, they're indirectly doing it because they know it's illegal.

How many of you had to provide "documents" to open a credit card? Mostly nobody - because your info is readily available to them via credit unions, IRS, and various other institutions. I've never had a single bank ask me for a physical document, apart from one when seeking a very high-limit card at which point they wanted proof of a ownership of a specific asset.

I can agree that threatening an agent could result in them going "authority mode" resulting in a card closure. Some people know how to speak with people better than others and relay information in a fashion that is kind yet firm. Many are not and I made sure to edit my post to demonstrate that since I don't want someone to assume that will be a guaranteed fix.

But yes I think it's quite clear why they're requesting documents. They're counting on ignorance or fear. Does the carholder agreement mention the lender's right to do this? I'd like to see that. None of mine mention any right to ask for documentation of an authorized user. They're trying to play on a gray area.

These are the same institutions that have pleaded guilty, been found guilty, and are continually committing federal-level financial crimes daily. Don't forget that. There's always a way to deal with the situation.

I could be completely wrong about why they're requesting docs but we have to use logic here, right?

[secondcor521]

I have two Discover AUs to add.  One added fine, the other one Discover's online system didn't like the address.

The address is of the form:

123 Main Street Apt 12
Topeka, Kansas 12345

Discover seems to be griping about the first line of the address and the apartment number.

I've tried a number of the obvious things, including the correct one (the address as USPS thinks it should be and as it is listed in the AU's information).

I could call in to Discover but would rather not.

I could try leaving off the apartment but would rather not.

At the moment I plan to call Good Company on Monday and ask them how to proceed, but I figured someone here might know some Discover address tricks or think of something I haven't.

Suggestions?  Tricks?  Tribal knowledge from those who have gone before?

[beekayworld]

Discover sometimes asks for AU documentation apparently, which I imagine to be a hassle.

Oooh, I know this one! They ask for SS number, full name, birth date, and address. And all of that has to be correct or else. This is not a hassle as far as I'm concerned, because Old Company gives you all of this information and you just copy it over. Can't say about other companies. Removal with Discover is a simple click.

If they ask for documentation, it means they want copies of the driver's license and social security card FAXed. Capital One did that for me twice. The first time I FAXed the documents and they unfroze my account. (BTW, the documents were in color but the FAX was b&w).

The second time they permitted email documentation but the documentation was in black and white and they wanted it in color.

The Company told me they couldn't provide anything else, so I closed that credit card (it was frozen permanently awaiting docs I couldn't get so I didn't see the point in leaving it open).

[Nutty]

I have two Discover AUs to add.  One added fine, the other one Discover's online system didn't like the address.

The address is of the form:

123 Main Street Apt 12
Topeka, Kansas 12345

Discover seems to be griping about the first line of the address and the apartment number.

I've tried a number of the obvious things, including the correct one (the address as USPS thinks it should be and as it is listed in the AU's information).

I could call in to Discover but would rather not.

I could try leaving off the apartment but would rather not.

At the moment I plan to call Good Company on Monday and ask them how to proceed, but I figured someone here might know some Discover address tricks or think of something I haven't.

Suggestions?  Tricks?  Tribal knowledge from those who have gone before?

According to nice lady at Old Company, this is a glich in their system.  You added the AU and it continually says there is a probelm.  My AU was added and posted.  Ignore the warning.  If in doubt, email nice lady and she will confirm. 

[secondcor521]

I have two Discover AUs to add.  One added fine, the other one Discover's online system didn't like the address.

The address is of the form:

123 Main Street Apt 12
Topeka, Kansas 12345

Discover seems to be griping about the first line of the address and the apartment number.

I've tried a number of the obvious things, including the correct one (the address as USPS thinks it should be and as it is listed in the AU's information).

I could call in to Discover but would rather not.

I could try leaving off the apartment but would rather not.

At the moment I plan to call Good Company on Monday and ask them how to proceed, but I figured someone here might know some Discover address tricks or think of something I haven't.

Suggestions?  Tricks?  Tribal knowledge from those who have gone before?

According to nice lady at Old Company, this is a glich in their system.  You added the AU and it continually says there is a probelm.  My AU was added and posted.  Ignore the warning.  If in doubt, email nice lady and she will confirm.

Ah, thanks.  It sure acts like it didn't even add the AU, though.  It seems stuck on the "verify all the information is OK before adding" step.

[MoMoney88]

re:  Chase cards
I posted this a couple of months ago...Posting again to see if anyone has seen this happen before with Chase...

I have been selling TL's on my two Chase cards since mid-2018.  I have sold 44 spots on one and 45 on the other.

On one of my Chase cards (Marriot card), I had an issue recently with my last two AU's posting.  I had to cancel both orders.
My other Chase card (United card) has had no issues at all posting.

So, I decided to do a test AU a couple of months ago on my Marriott card... I added my adult son and a few days later I did receive his AU Marriott card in the mail.
However, we checked his Credit Karma and do not see it posting at all for him, it's been 2 months.

Would it be risky to email Chase (Secure Message) and to see if they can see an issue with my Marriott card / asking why isn't my son posting to the credit bureaus?

I'm wondering if this is Chase's way of stopping my from AU piggybacking, and they want to keep me as a customer... after all, both cards have annual fees and we do have mortgage with Chase.

[secondcor521]

I'm wondering if this is Chase's way of stopping my from AU piggybacking, and they want to keep me as a customer... after all, both cards have annual fees and we do have mortgage with Chase.

I doubt it.  I think they'd be more likely to cancel your cards, regardless of your annual fee revenue to them.

[MoMoney88]

that in and of itself, you are probably right.  But maybe combined with the fact that they would potentially lose 20 years of mortgage?  I might immediately look to refinance with another lender. :-)

I just find it strange that the last 3 AU's on the Marriott card did not post,  while the United card continues to post no problem.

[secondcor521]

that in and of itself, you are probably right.  But maybe combined with the fact that they would potentially lose 20 years of mortgage?  I might immediately look to refinance with another lender. :-)

I just find it strange that the last 3 AU's on the Marriott card did not post,  while the United card continues to post no problem.

It's not clear to me personally that Chase closes *all* Chase accounts.  I think they close *all Chase CC* accounts.  I really doubt they would, or have, closed a mortgage or a checking or savings account.

I don't get it either.

[MoMoney88]

Correct, they only close the cards.

I meant that I would leave Chase and take my mortgage somewhere else.   :-)

[secondcor521]

Correct, they only close the cards.

I meant that I would leave Chase and take my mortgage somewhere else.   :-)

Ah, I didn't read carefully enough.

I think Chase is willing to bet you would say it but wouldn't actually do it.

[tj]

Correct, they only close the cards.

I meant that I would leave Chase and take my mortgage somewhere else.   :-)

Ah, I didn't read carefully enough.

I think Chase is willing to bet you would say it but wouldn't actually do it.

Especially if that Chase mortage is from a few years ago when rates were low and would never be competitively replaced..


Is anyone pulling in $20k/year from tradelines?

[Reddart67]

If I get a decent amount of AUs this month, I might get close to 20K this year.

[secondcor521]

If I get a decent amount of AUs this month, I might get close to 20K this year.

Tips?  Tricks?  Anything unusual about your situation?  Just counting piggybacking or are you including SUBs and other stuff?

(I do well, but not anywhere near that well.)

[Reddart67]

If I get a decent amount of AUs this month, I might get close to 20K this year.

Tips?  Tricks?  Anything unusual about your situation?  Just counting piggybacking or are you including SUBs and other stuff?

(I do well, but not anywhere near that well.)

Well the best tip would be that you get many high limit credit cards with issuers that historically don’t have AU cancellation problems, and that you had gotten them many years ago, so the age of the credit line is high.

Yes, that is something one cannot just do.

And that is just TL revenue, not counting any SUB or other cc perks.

[Padonak]

It's not clear to me personally that Chase closes *all* Chase accounts.  I think they close *all Chase CC* accounts.  I really doubt they would, or have, closed a mortgage or a checking or savings account.

I don't get it either.

If you have both personal and business credit cards with Chase and they close your accounts for TLs, do they close all your CC or just personal ones?

[tj]

It's not clear to me personally that Chase closes *all* Chase accounts.  I think they close *all Chase CC* accounts.  I really doubt they would, or have, closed a mortgage or a checking or savings account.

I don't get it either.

If you have both personal and business credit cards with Chase and they close your accounts for TLs, do they close all your CC or just personal ones?

I believe the risk you take when you do this is that everything could be shut down.

[secondcor521]

If I get a decent amount of AUs this month, I might get close to 20K this year.

Tips?  Tricks?  Anything unusual about your situation?  Just counting piggybacking or are you including SUBs and other stuff?

(I do well, but not anywhere near that well.)

Well the best tip would be that you get many high limit credit cards with issuers that historically don’t have AU cancellation problems, and that you had gotten them many years ago, so the age of the credit line is high.

Yes, that is something one cannot just do.

And that is just TL revenue, not counting any SUB or other cc perks.

Ah, OK, thanks.  I've mostly done that, just not apparently to the same extent that you have.  Congratulations!

[Reddart67]

If I get a decent amount of AUs this month, I might get close to 20K this year.

Tips?  Tricks?  Anything unusual about your situation?  Just counting piggybacking or are you including SUBs and other stuff?

(I do well, but not anywhere near that well.)

Well the best tip would be that you get many high limit credit cards with issuers that historically don’t have AU cancellation problems, and that you had gotten them many years ago, so the age of the credit line is high.

Yes, that is something one cannot just do.

And that is just TL revenue, not counting any SUB or other cc perks.

Ah, OK, thanks.  I've mostly done that, just not apparently to the same extent that you have.  Congratulations!

I try not to think about a couple of cards I had 15 years ago that I cancelled before I knew about TLs and affects on credit score.

[tj]

For what it's worth, I've kept a running file based entirely off of what I've seen on this 123 page thread about what cards are likely to work and which ones won't. I'll post it here for anyone's edification, but I will not vouch for it nor can I say it's up to date, though nothing I've seen lately obviously overturns it all. If anyone knows better, just say so and I'll update my file:

Good:

Discover
TD Bank
Barclays
PNC
Associated Bank
Amex
Wells Fargo (not currently accepted)

Do all of the Good allow for adding and removing online?

No.  Well at least not per Good Company.  Their documentation says PNC is phone only.  I have a PNC card just recently enrolled, but no AU sales yet so can't confirm that yet.

USBank owns Elan, but the two act independently as far as I can tell.

As far as the list goes, I think the picture is far more nuanced.  Barclays doesn't seem to care a whit about AU activity, but they have a lifetime limit which I find pesky, although now I know how to deal with it.  Chase is famous for closing down all cards, but I have my highest limit, oldest, best commission card with them that sells well and a second card that also does well and I've not yet been shut down (knock wood).  USBank is not particularly known for shutdowns but they shut down both of my cards with them for AU activity...but then shortly after gave me two more cards.  BofA is known for shutting folks down more frequently, but they haven't hit me yet, and philosophically I don't care because I have plenty of cards and don't have a very good opinion of BofA as a business (among other things they don't reallocate credit lines among personal cards without a hard credit pull, which I find a ridiculous policy).  Discover sometimes asks for AU documentation apparently, which I imagine to be a hassle.  Some issuers are easier to add/remove, but may not give as generous of credit lines and thus may have lower commissions.  With some issuers the Good Company requires longer cycles (keeping the AU on for 4 months instead of three, for example).  With some issuers the Good Company allows more slots.  Some issuers might have some cards with good signup bonuses that can then be piggybacked later.  Some issuers seem to have more difficulty posting to the AU's credit reports.

Overall my experience is that all the issuers have pros and cons.  Some on average are better than others but all the ones I've had (which is most of them that Good Company accepts) are at least reasonable enough to work with based on the amount of effort involved compared to the payments.  I have a long, littered credit card history from playing CC games for decades, and I have a lot of piggybacking cards going currently.  My current practice is to look at which issuers I don't have a full slate of piggybacking cards with yet, then see which of those I think I can get more CL with, then look at DoC to see which cards at those issuers have a decent sign up bonus.  But that's just my approach, YMMV based on your situation.

Do TD, PNC or Associated ever have decent signup bonuses? I don't think I've ever had a card from any of them, so I don't think I'd care too much if they shut me down.

Also, how have ya'll accumulated  the really large card limits in the first place? How much reported income is realistically needed to get a $40k+ card limit on a single card?

[secondcor521]

Do TD, PNC or Associated ever have decent signup bonuses? I don't think I've ever had a card from any of them, so I don't think I'd care too much if they shut me down.

Also, how have ya'll accumulated  the really large card limits in the first place? How much reported income is realistically needed to get a $40k+ card limit on a single card?

I don't recall on the SUBs.  My approach is, if I get a SUB, great, if not I'll still open a card or two and season them for TLs two years down the road.

On the high CLs, there have been various tricks over the years, some of which were discussed on FatWallet.  Having a high  income, long credit history, and high credit score seem to help.  Some people seemed to think that a high balance transfer request at time of application helped.  Sometimes you can get a certain CL and get it bumped up over time with regular requests.  It used to be more possible to combine cards - so get two $20K CLs at an issuer and combine to one $40K card.
 I have used a combination of all of these tactics.

[WayDownSouth]

But are they adding new openings to add your cards? I've supposedly been on the wait-list for a couple years now.

I know you're not kidding, but are you kidding?

A multi-year wait list to be added as a cardholder? That's the most insane thing I've heard from a brokerage! The second (which used to be the first most insane thing I ever heard) was when I tried checking out a seemingly popular company only to find out they require my CreditKarma logins to move forward. Absolutely massive no-no for me. They said it was to allow them to view my credit report while keeping privacy sharing to a minimum. I never knew that providing all my personal and credit history was "keeping things to a minimum". I also never knew there were enough people willing to share that kind of info as a cardholder that they'd be able to actually stay in business.

While I expect all my AUs to be completely verified, I'd never seen such invasion of privacy. Other companies required nothing at all as a seller, or at worst a simple copy of credit report.

[MoneyTree]

Do TD, PNC or Associated ever have decent signup bonuses? I don't think I've ever had a card from any of them, so I don't think I'd care too much if they shut me down.

Also, how have ya'll accumulated  the really large card limits in the first place? How much reported income is realistically needed to get a $40k+ card limit on a single card?

I don't recall on the SUBs.  My approach is, if I get a SUB, great, if not I'll still open a card or two and season them for TLs two years down the road.

On the high CLs, there have been various tricks over the years, some of which were discussed on FatWallet.  Having a high  income, long credit history, and high credit score seem to help.  Some people seemed to think that a high balance transfer request at time of application helped.  Sometimes you can get a certain CL and get it bumped up over time with regular requests.  It used to be more possible to combine cards - so get two $20K CLs at an issuer and combine to one $40K card.
 I have used a combination of all of these tactics.

YMMV but not all cards are targeted at the same demographic, and their initial limit will reflect that. I've noticed that when I open premium cards (usually the ones with annual fees) they come with a much higher credit limit right off the bat. I will later either product change or downgrade the card to a non-fee card, or transfer the limit to a different non-fee card.

[WayDownSouth]

Do TD, PNC or Associated ever have decent signup bonuses? I don't think I've ever had a card from any of them, so I don't think I'd care too much if they shut me down.

Also, how have ya'll accumulated  the really large card limits in the first place? How much reported income is realistically needed to get a $40k+ card limit on a single card?

I don't recall on the SUBs.  My approach is, if I get a SUB, great, if not I'll still open a card or two and season them for TLs two years down the road.

On the high CLs, there have been various tricks over the years, some of which were discussed on FatWallet.  Having a high  income, long credit history, and high credit score seem to help.  Some people seemed to think that a high balance transfer request at time of application helped.  Sometimes you can get a certain CL and get it bumped up over time with regular requests.  It used to be more possible to combine cards - so get two $20K CLs at an issuer and combine to one $40K card.
 I have used a combination of all of these tactics.

YMMV but not all cards are targeted at the same demographic, and their initial limit will reflect that. I've noticed that when I open premium cards (usually the ones with annual fees) they come with a much higher credit limit right off the bat. I will later either product change or downgrade the card to a non-fee card, or transfer the limit to a different non-fee card.

Note about the cards with fees - depending on your income and credit score while of course assuming that you already know you qualify for the card, you can usually get the fee waived right from the start by calling instead of making an online application. For example you can say you're extremely interested and intend to use it as a priority card, and if they're willing to waive the fee you'll gladly take it.

This has worked for me twice. Only tried it twice.

[Riker626]

To help with the recent questions about good and bad cards, I assembled this data set.  It is largely bases on the old/good company and does not account for certain cards being stopped.  Hopefully those stopped cards will come back on line at some point.  The data is a mix of my own experience and what I have read on this thread.

----------------------/ Life      / Reset by / Cancel 1 Card / Add    / Remove / At a   / Annual / Cycles / Notes
----------------------/ Time    / Product  / All Cards or     / Online / Online    / time   / Max    /
----------------------/ Limit    / Change   / All Accounts    /           /             / limit     /          /
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Synchrony CareCredit  /        /            /                         /  CALL  /  CALL     /          /           /   2       /
Citi                          /            /            /                         /  CALL  /ChatCALL/   2     /           /   2       /
Elan Financial           / ?!?!     /   ?!?!    /                         / Online /ChatCALL/   2      /           /   2       / Instructions say phone but can do online
PNC                        /            /            /                         / Online /  CALL      / 1       /   5       /     3    / Instructions say phone but can do online
Barclays                  /35/card/    No    /     ?!?!              / Online / Online     /   2      /           /   2       /
Capital One              / ?!?!    /   ?!?!   / All Cards            / Online / Online      /   2     /           /     3     /
Chase                     / ?!?!     /   ?!?!   / All Cards            / Online /  CALL      /   2     /            /      4    /
Discover                  /           /            / All Accounts       / Online / Online     / 1       / 7/card /   2       /
US Bank                  /           /            / All Accounts       / Online /  CALL      /   2     /            /   2       /
TD Bank/Target        /35/card/           /                          /           /               /          /            /   2       /
Alliant CU                /            /            /                         /            /               /          /            /   2       /
Huntington Bank      /           /            /                         / Online  /               /          /            /   2        / Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, or Wisconsin
USAA                      /           /            /                          /           /               /          /            /   2        / Military only
NFCU                      /           /            /                          / Online /               /          /   4       /     3      / Military only
American Express    /99/card/   ?!?!   /     ?!?!               / Online /               /          /            /   2        /
Bank of America      /           /            / All Accounts       /           /               /          /            /   2        /
Associated Bank      /           /            /                          /           /               /          /            /             /

Barclays may be the only truly lifetime limit

[Riker626]

I have been trying to get an AARP (Barclay) card, but not having any luck.  It's been long enough I don't recall all the details but these are some of the basics.

Applied on line
Got email links requesting various documents
Provided documents online
Links then said declined
Got letter asking for more documents ... what?
Called Barclays, got bounced around a lot, ended up talking to a separate AARP department, was told they could not help me and I had to fax the requested documents.  They said they could only do a new application over the phone, expecting the same results I choose to continue with the original application.
Faxed documents
Got 2nd letter asking for same documents
Mailed the documents this time
Got a 3rd letter asking for the same documents.   :[

No idea how get this card.  Does anyone have some helpful experience?
Thanks in advance

[secondcor521]

I have been trying to get an AARP (Barclay) card, but not having any luck.  It's been long enough I don't recall all the details but these are some of the basics.

Applied on line
Got email links requesting various documents
Provided documents online
Links then said declined
Got letter asking for more documents ... what?
Called Barclays, got bounced around a lot, ended up talking to a separate AARP department, was told they could not help me and I had to fax the requested documents.  They said they could only do a new application over the phone, expecting the same results I choose to continue with the original application.
Faxed documents
Got 2nd letter asking for same documents
Mailed the documents this time
Got a 3rd letter asking for the same documents.   :[

No idea how get this card.  Does anyone have some helpful experience?
Thanks in advance

I got the card recently.  I had a similar experience.  For context, I already have another Barclays CC.

They sent a letter asking for copies of DL, SS card, and current utility bill and said I had 30 days to send it back.  I mailed those to the physical address in the letter, although I sent a copy of my tax return instead of my SS card because I didn't have an SS card.

They also said several times on the phone that I actually have 60 days even though the letter said 30 days.

I called to follow up a week or two later, and they said they got the first two but the utility bill was "unreadable".  Baloney.  I sent a second letter to the same physical address with copies of three different utility bills.

I called again to follow up a week or two later, and they approved the card.

[WayDownSouth]

To help with the recent questions about good and bad cards, I assembled this data set.  It is largely bases on the old/good company and does not account for certain cards being stopped.  Hopefully those stopped cards will come back on line at some point.  The data is a mix of my own experience and what I have read on this thread.

----------------------/ Life      / Reset by / Cancel 1 Card / Add    / Remove / At a   / Annual / Cycles / Notes
----------------------/ Time    / Product  / All Cards or     / Online / Online    / time   / Max    /
----------------------/ Limit    / Change   / All Accounts    /           /             / limit     /          /
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Synchrony CareCredit  /        /            /                         /  CALL  /  CALL     /          /           /   2       /
Citi                          /            /            /                         /  CALL  /ChatCALL/   2     /           /   2       /
Elan Financial           / ?!?!     /   ?!?!    /                         / Online /ChatCALL/   2      /           /   2       / Instructions say phone but can do online
PNC                        /            /            /                         / Online /  CALL      / 1       /   5       /     3    / Instructions say phone but can do online
Barclays                  /35/card/    No    /     ?!?!              / Online / Online     /   2      /           /   2       /
Capital One              / ?!?!    /   ?!?!   / All Cards            / Online / Online      /   2     /           /     3     /
Chase                     / ?!?!     /   ?!?!   / All Cards            / Online /  CALL      /   2     /            /      4    /
Discover                  /           /            / All Accounts       / Online / Online     / 1       / 7/card /   2       /
US Bank                  /           /            / All Accounts       / Online /  CALL      /   2     /            /   2       /
TD Bank/Target        /35/card/           /                          /           /               /          /            /   2       /
Alliant CU                /            /            /                         /            /               /          /            /   2       /
Huntington Bank      /           /            /                         / Online  /               /          /            /   2        / Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, or Wisconsin
USAA                      /           /            /                          /           /               /          /            /   2        / Military only
NFCU                      /           /            /                          / Online /               /          /   4       /     3      / Military only
American Express    /99/card/   ?!?!   /     ?!?!               / Online /               /          /            /   2        /
Bank of America      /           /            / All Accounts       /           /               /          /            /   2        /
Associated Bank      /           /            /                          /           /               /          /            /             /

Barclays may be the only truly lifetime limit

Good stuff.

In the "cycles" column, I assume you're counting the minimum number of cycles recommended to hopefully prevent account cancellation, correct?

[Riker626]

Good stuff.

In the "cycles" column, I assume you're counting the minimum number of cycles recommended to hopefully prevent account cancellation, correct?
[/quote]

"Cycles" is the number of months needed to properly report on credit line, recommended by CL company.  Don't quite follow on "prevent account cancellation".

Thanks

[WayDownSouth]

Good stuff.

In the "cycles" column, I assume you're counting the minimum number of cycles recommended to hopefully prevent account cancellation, correct?

"Cycles" is the number of months needed to properly report on credit line, recommended by CL company.  Don't quite follow on "prevent account cancellation".

Thanks
[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying. I've not had any issues as a seller with only two cycles required to report. However that's reporting to 2, not always 3. Equifax seems to be the one that is a "sometimes" and so I wonder if those guidelines would make a difference.

I have also heard in the past that the difference between all 3 reporting ALL THE TIME is achieved only by phone call when adding (which doesn't make sense to me) and even then it seemed to depend on the particular tradeline company's recommendations or strategy.

Also I don't ever remember waiting 4 months for a Chase card to post so I don't know what that's about, however I do remember various buyers buying different cycle-lengths at certain times. The more than 2 months just doesn't seem frequent enough for me that I can agree with it, but I honestly don't pay close enough attention as I probably should as a seller so I can't say. I will look and see. Also I know a company owner who I will ask but I'd be interested to hear if anyone can say with certainty that your chart matches up with their past/present experience as definitive when considering old/new company, and other companies as well.

If someone is asking for a certain span of time for a certain card to post, are they paying for that extra month or is that considered to be a single payment cycle for that particular card is another good question - because this seems to vary from company to company. I've been strictly selling with the same company for the last few years. The vast majority of my Chase sales are not more than 3 months and I don't even know if I've ever had one with the same AU for 4 months straight before.

 

[Reddart67]

I thought the policy of having Chase cards for 4 months was not so much the credit reporting but more to reduce the chance of the account getting shut down.

[WayDownSouth]

I thought the policy of having Chase cards for 4 months was not so much the credit reporting but more to reduce the chance of the account getting shut down.

I assumed the same that's why I asked him to clarify. Maybe he's confused, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're all wrong. I don't know but it'd be nice to figure out.

It's confusing because while getting the line posted to the AU's report definitely doesn't require a full two cycles in most cases, I've never heard of anyone selling lines for less than two months/cycles. It's a universal rule more or less and gives the buyer time to deal with whatever they're doing.

But 3 and four months as a rule, in my opinion, would be an attempt to either guarantee posting to all 3 bureaus or to minimize chance of closure. Maybe it's already been clarified here and someone will chime in.

[CornFarmer]

I looked into this a few years ago but never pursued it. I'm now thinking about it again.

I have a discover with a high limit that is several years old as well as a chase card with a high limit that is also several years old. If I keep the discover to less than 7 per year and just one or two every month or two with the chase is there still a high likelihood I will get closed down?

[tj]

I looked into this a few years ago but never pursued it. I'm now thinking about it again.

I have a discover with a high limit that is several years old as well as a chase card with a high limit that is also several years old. If I keep the discover to less than 7 per year and just one or two every month or two with the chase is there still a high likelihood I will get closed down?

There is always a risk of getting shut down. The original post in this thread is very clear about that.

[CornFarmer]

I looked into this a few years ago but never pursued it. I'm now thinking about it again.

I have a discover with a high limit that is several years old as well as a chase card with a high limit that is also several years old. If I keep the discover to less than 7 per year and just one or two every month or two with the chase is there still a high likelihood I will get closed down?

There is always a risk of getting shut down. The original post in this thread is very clear about that.

Yes I'm well aware. Just as driving my truck down the road everyday comes with the risk of death, but if I follow the rules of the road and watch out for other drivers that is unlikely.... My question is if it is very likely?

[WayDownSouth]

I looked into this a few years ago but never pursued it. I'm now thinking about it again.

I have a discover with a high limit that is several years old as well as a chase card with a high limit that is also several years old. If I keep the discover to less than 7 per year and just one or two every month or two with the chase is there still a high likelihood I will get closed down?

There is always a risk of getting shut down. The original post in this thread is very clear about that.

Yes I'm well aware. Just as driving my truck down the road everyday comes with the risk of death, but if I follow the rules of the road and watch out for other drivers that is unlikely.... My question is if it is very likely?

Your likelyhood isn't very high at all. Drive with caution, use some defensive driving tactics whenever possible and you'll be far better off than the average person selling tradelines.

I've lost 4 credit cards in the last 5 years, and none in the last 3 years. Of those I lost, one bank even shut down my checking account too as extra punishment! LOL. I paid $14 a month for that checking account and never made a single deposit into it except for the day I opened it with $500.

I have absolutely without a doubt made more than $150k in the last 5 years as a seller. I was greedy at first. Maybe I still am because I really don't NEED the money, but it's so easy!

I think with time I figured out how to calm down and sell them correctly via help from others, reading this forum, the company I sell through, and just plain old trial and error.

You already know you're taking a risk. No, it's not very big when handled properly.

[WayDownSouth]

I looked into this a few years ago but never pursued it. I'm now thinking about it again.

I have a discover with a high limit that is several years old as well as a chase card with a high limit that is also several years old. If I keep the discover to less than 7 per year and just one or two every month or two with the chase is there still a high likelihood I will get closed down?

By the way I don't know how old your "several years" are or how high your "high-limit" is. I'm guessing you can make an easy $350 per month with those two cards and extremely minimal worries about any closure. Again, limit, age, and your frequency all play a factor. You can find a nice medium that will make you happy.

[tj]

I looked into this a few years ago but never pursued it. I'm now thinking about it again.

I have a discover with a high limit that is several years old as well as a chase card with a high limit that is also several years old. If I keep the discover to less than 7 per year and just one or two every month or two with the chase is there still a high likelihood I will get closed down?

There is always a risk of getting shut down. The original post in this thread is very clear about that.

Yes I'm well aware. Just as driving my truck down the road everyday comes with the risk of death, but if I follow the rules of the road and watch out for other drivers that is unlikely.... My question is if it is very likely?

Your likelyhood isn't very high at all. Drive with caution, use some defensive driving tactics whenever possible and you'll be far better off than the average person selling tradelines.

I've lost 4 credit cards in the last 5 years, and none in the last 3 years. Of those I lost, one bank even shut down my checking account too as extra punishment! LOL. I paid $14 a month for that checking account and never made a single deposit into it except for the day I opened it with $500.

Why would you pay $14/mo for a checking account that you don't need?

[WayDownSouth]

I looked into this a few years ago but never pursued it. I'm now thinking about it again.

I have a discover with a high limit that is several years old as well as a chase card with a high limit that is also several years old. If I keep the discover to less than 7 per year and just one or two every month or two with the chase is there still a high likelihood I will get closed down?

There is always a risk of getting shut down. The original post in this thread is very clear about that.

Yes I'm well aware. Just as driving my truck down the road everyday comes with the risk of death, but if I follow the rules of the road and watch out for other drivers that is unlikely.... My question is if it is very likely?

Your likelyhood isn't very high at all. Drive with caution, use some defensive driving tactics whenever possible and you'll be far better off than the average person selling tradelines.

I've lost 4 credit cards in the last 5 years, and none in the last 3 years. Of those I lost, one bank even shut down my checking account too as extra punishment! LOL. I paid $14 a month for that checking account and never made a single deposit into it except for the day I opened it with $500.

Why would you pay $14/mo for a checking account that you don't need?

Because the checking account was open for 9 months before I applied for the credit card and they were collecting that $14 fee. Their algorithm tells them I'm an excellent client because while my account has a very small balance, they're collecting money on an account that's making no transactions (low risk, less paperwork, less number crunching, less visits to their branches, etc.)... When I applied for the high-limit card, approval was instant.

By the time the 36th month rolled around which depleted my $500 initial deposit for the checking account, I had already received over $2,500 in tradeline income from that card. Over the next two years of that card, I'd made another combined $2,500 to $3,500.

I don't believe I would have received that card and limit if I hadn't been a pre-existing customer. I think the account was almost exactly 5 years old when they shut it all down.

[MoMoney88]

Any word on if it is safe to get back in the water with Capital One?

Thinking I may until Jan to start selling my Cap One.

[WayDownSouth]

Any word on if it is safe to get back in the water with Capital One?

Thinking I may until Jan to start selling my Cap One.

I don't think there's a consensus. I sold two capital one spots in October on a card and another spot at the beginning of this month on different capital one card. No problems as of yet. Be careful.

[WayDownSouth]

To help with the recent questions about good and bad cards, I assembled this data set.  It is largely bases on the old/good company and does not account for certain cards being stopped.  Hopefully those stopped cards will come back on line at some point.  The data is a mix of my own experience and what I have read on this thread.

----------------------/ Life      / Reset by / Cancel 1 Card / Add    / Remove / At a   / Annual / Cycles / Notes
----------------------/ Time    / Product  / All Cards or     / Online / Online    / time   / Max    /
----------------------/ Limit    / Change   / All Accounts    /           /             / limit     /          /
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Synchrony CareCredit  /        /            /                         /  CALL  /  CALL     /          /           /   2       /
Citi                          /            /            /                         /  CALL  /ChatCALL/   2     /           /   2       /
Elan Financial           / ?!?!     /   ?!?!    /                         / Online /ChatCALL/   2      /           /   2       / Instructions say phone but can do online
PNC                        /            /            /                         / Online /  CALL      / 1       /   5       /     3    / Instructions say phone but can do online
Barclays                  /35/card/    No    /     ?!?!              / Online / Online     /   2      /           /   2       /
Capital One              / ?!?!    /   ?!?!   / All Cards            / Online / Online      /   2     /           /     3     /
Chase                     / ?!?!     /   ?!?!   / All Cards            / Online /  CALL      /   2     /            /      4    /
Discover                  /           /            / All Accounts       / Online / Online     / 1       / 7/card /   2       /
US Bank                  /           /            / All Accounts       / Online /  CALL      /   2     /            /   2       /
TD Bank/Target        /35/card/           /                          /           /               /          /            /   2       /
Alliant CU                /            /            /                         /            /               /          /            /   2       /
Huntington Bank      /           /            /                         / Online  /               /          /            /   2        / Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, or Wisconsin
USAA                      /           /            /                          /           /               /          /            /   2        / Military only
NFCU                      /           /            /                          / Online /               /          /   4       /     3      / Military only
American Express    /99/card/   ?!?!   /     ?!?!               / Online /               /          /            /   2        /
Bank of America      /           /            / All Accounts       /           /               /          /            /   2        /
Associated Bank      /           /            /                          /           /               /          /            /             /

Barclays may be the only truly lifetime limit

So I threw this all into a spreadsheet and then imported some pages from other data I have to compare and contrast. I personally can clarify that I've never (with any company I've used) kept Chase on for 4 whole months to ensure posting. I knew that sounded "off", which is why I asked if this was a best practice put into place to help prevent card closure.

My records show that anytime I had an AU more than 2 months on Chase, it was at the request of the AU who bought it twice (or bought a longer time period) and I was paid more. Chase can be problematic, and, knowing this, I have decided on my own to NOT remove a few cardholders over the years immediately after their purchased period. For example, maybe I sold 4 slots in 6 months, I may let 2 of those AUs stay on an extra month before removing just because it gave me some peace of mind and maybe I felt it was my own strategy to avoid closure. In any case, that was my decision and not a brokerage recommendation or idea.

Both Citi and Synphony, which I've never had, have been advised to me as "problematic". I never held a card from either, so anyone with experience may have input.

The odd exception is your spreadsheet says 2 months for BOA, I've always had 4 month periods for AUs with BOA and been paid extra for those - however cannot confirm if it was a preventative measure (minimalize card closure), or a requirement for proper posting. I'm going to look into that but if anyone has info, please relay. I'll get a definitive answer from a non-new/old company within the next few days max of their opinion/reasoning for that.

Nobody else responded to Riker's post so if this has been discussed/concluded with certainty before, my apology.

[Reddart67]

Both Citi and Synphony, which I've never had, have been advised to me as "problematic". I never held a card from either, so anyone with experience may have input.

Citi is one of my more lucrative cards. Occasionally they won’t post, and another problem with them in conjunction with my local post office is Citi usually sends the AU cards to me with their name, and my post office overzealously filters mail that doesn’t have our names on it, so I sometimes get into a situation that I have to call or chat with Citi to verify my address as they got the AUs card returned to them. Annoying, but because I know the drill it doesn’t take that much time to resolve. Definitely freaked me out the first time it happened, I log on to the app and it says “account closed”.