Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking Part II: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig

[Zamboni]

I made just over $2K in 2021, mostly on a single, high limit card. I added a couple of more cards late in the Fall, so should make a little more next year. I'm calling this a win since, as arebelspy says, it's extremely little effort on my part.

Does anyone know the answer to this question:
I've had a credit freeze at the "big four" credit reporting agencies on ever since someone tried to fraudulently open a card in my name about 5 years ago and they seemed to have all of my info. This had nothing to do before tradelines, just to be clear, it was way before I was selling tradelines. However, a couple of my cards still have that "free credit score" feature, and they seem to be able to update my credit score every month. How are they doing that if I have a freeze on my credit reports at all of the agencies?

[secondcor521]

I've had a credit freeze at the "big four" credit reporting agencies on ever since someone tried to fraudulently open a card in my name about 5 years ago and they seemed to have all of my info. This had nothing to do before tradelines, just to be clear, it was way before I was selling tradelines. However, a couple of my cards still have that "free credit score" feature, and they seem to be able to update my credit score every month. How are they doing that if I have a freeze on my credit reports at all of the agencies?

A credit freeze prevents the ability for a potential creditor to get information on you from the credit bureaus.  It does not prevent people who have already granted you credit from providing information on you to the credit bureaus.  There are two directions in which data is flowing, and your credit freeze only affects one of them.

[salt cured]

What's the conventional wisdom on the number of AUs that can be carried at any one time? I have a Citi card listed with two companies and could end up with 4 adds total, though I've never gone above 2.

[secondcor521]

What's the conventional wisdom on the number of AUs that can be carried at any one time? I have a Citi card listed with two companies and could end up with 4 adds total, though I've never gone above 2.

Old Company has recommendations for number of slots that vary by issuer.  I always follow their recommendations, although you can perhaps choose to have more slots if you're willing to take the risk and the TL company you're using is willing to go along with it.

Occasionally the Old Company (and maybe New Company as well, I can't recall) will have situations where they want or need you to temporarily exceed your number of slots.  This is usually temporary.  I decide these on a case-by-case basis, but I decline more often than I accept.  When I decline, Old Company has not had an issue with it.

If you're listing with multiple companies, then you're taking a risk, one that I personally find excessive but reasonable people can disagree.  You might average more sales in the short term, but you're increasing the risk of either (a) getting the card shut down, or (b) choosing to decline an order to manage your risk.  If you do either of these too much and the TL company figures out what you're doing, I think they're likely to dis-enroll you.

The established wisdom with all games of this type is to milk it at a reasonable level.  Going too fast typically results in higher results for a shorter period of time, but the cumulative total is typically less.  Going too fast also tends to accelerate the game getting restricted or shut down entirely.  This is why I follow all of the recommendations from the TL companies - to keep the game going for everyone, and to maximize my total lifetime income from the game.

[MoneyTree]

What's the conventional wisdom on the number of AUs that can be carried at any one time? I have a Citi card listed with two companies and could end up with 4 adds total, though I've never gone above 2.

I believe that to enroll a card with either of the companies discussed here you agree to not list that card with another company.

Whether you choose to abide by their policy or not is a different matter, but it might be good to check to see if you are violating their policy or not.

[Pizzabrewer]

My sales have gone dead, anyone else?  Old company, I have a Barclays which used to sell out 2 spots consistently, a Discover card that sold decently and I added a chase card the last enrollment which hasn’t yet sold a spot. Nothing in the last 4 months. Is this normal?

Another 2 months have gone by with no sales. I’m pretty discouraged at this point.

[arebelspy]

My sales have gone dead, anyone else?  Old company, I have a Barclays which used to sell out 2 spots consistently, a Discover card that sold decently and I added a chase card the last enrollment which hasn’t yet sold a spot. Nothing in the last 4 months. Is this normal?

Another 2 months have gone by with no sales. I’m pretty discouraged at this point.

Yeah, sales have dipped quite a bit the second half of this year. I'm not sure of the factors. Give it time, I'm betting it's at least partly cyclical.

[frugalnacho]

They made barclays available for sale again, but I haven't sold a spot on that since the non-postings were happening.   I'm getting consistent sales on discover, amex, and synchrony.  Less frequent with the citi.

[jeromedawg]

Anyone have recent reports with Chase and getting accounts shut down? I have a bunch of cards and feel like it's a waste not being able to leverage them. Has anyone noticed any "patterns" with Chase that work and that don't? I would imagine if I sold a single spot on a card or two, it likely wouldn't raise flags versus selling several and across multiple cards... we have a lot of Chase cards that we use and depend on a lot (for points, etc) so the risk of having all of them canceled because of selling spots seems a bit high.

So far, all the spots on my and my wife's Discover cards are sold out. We are AUs on each other's cards too but I'm thinking that's a bit much and might as well just free those spots up for sale.

[Michael in ABQ]

My sales have gone dead, anyone else?  Old company, I have a Barclays which used to sell out 2 spots consistently, a Discover card that sold decently and I added a chase card the last enrollment which hasn’t yet sold a spot. Nothing in the last 4 months. Is this normal?

Another 2 months have gone by with no sales. I’m pretty discouraged at this point.

Yeah, sales have dipped quite a bit the second half of this year. I'm not sure of the factors. Give it time, I'm betting it's at least partly cyclical.

Very slow for me too. I've got a Barclays and Discover card with the old company and was selling at least 1-2 slots on each consistently last year but haven't had anything on the Barclays card since the issue last summer where they stopped posting. In the meantime, all it costs me is a modest annual fee.

[Car Jack]

Anyone have recent reports with Chase and getting accounts shut down? I have a bunch of cards and feel like it's a waste not being able to leverage them. Has anyone noticed any "patterns" with Chase that work and that don't? I would imagine if I sold a single spot on a card or two, it likely wouldn't raise flags versus selling several and across multiple cards... we have a lot of Chase cards that we use and depend on a lot (for points, etc) so the risk of having all of them canceled because of selling spots seems a bit high.

So far, all the spots on my and my wife's Discover cards are sold out. We are AUs on each other's cards too but I'm thinking that's a bit much and might as well just free those spots up for sale.

I have one Chase card with the old company and it stays full with 2 AUs all the time.  It's my only Chase anything, so although the 5% rewards are some quarters great, I wouldn't be devastated if it got shut down.

[jeromedawg]

Anyone have recent reports with Chase and getting accounts shut down? I have a bunch of cards and feel like it's a waste not being able to leverage them. Has anyone noticed any "patterns" with Chase that work and that don't? I would imagine if I sold a single spot on a card or two, it likely wouldn't raise flags versus selling several and across multiple cards... we have a lot of Chase cards that we use and depend on a lot (for points, etc) so the risk of having all of them canceled because of selling spots seems a bit high.

So far, all the spots on my and my wife's Discover cards are sold out. We are AUs on each other's cards too but I'm thinking that's a bit much and might as well just free those spots up for sale.

I have one Chase card with the old company and it stays full with 2 AUs all the time.  It's my only Chase anything, so although the 5% rewards are some quarters great, I wouldn't be devastated if it got shut down.

Yea, if you don't use it often it's NBD. In our case, we accumulate a lot of points and use these cards a lot. I thought I read that Chase can and will shut down ALL associated accounts if they determine you are "outside of the bounds" of acceptable use as far as AUs are concerned.

[katsiki]

My barclays cards are staying pretty busy again (past 2-3 months).

My AMEX that was added a few months ago however has seen no action.

[secondcor521]

Anyone have recent reports with Chase and getting accounts shut down? I have a bunch of cards and feel like it's a waste not being able to leverage them. Has anyone noticed any "patterns" with Chase that work and that don't? I would imagine if I sold a single spot on a card or two, it likely wouldn't raise flags versus selling several and across multiple cards... we have a lot of Chase cards that we use and depend on a lot (for points, etc) so the risk of having all of them canceled because of selling spots seems a bit high.

So far, all the spots on my and my wife's Discover cards are sold out. We are AUs on each other's cards too but I'm thinking that's a bit much and might as well just free those spots up for sale.

I have one Chase card with the old company and it stays full with 2 AUs all the time.  It's my only Chase anything, so although the 5% rewards are some quarters great, I wouldn't be devastated if it got shut down.

Yea, if you don't use it often it's NBD. In our case, we accumulate a lot of points and use these cards a lot. I thought I read that Chase can and will shut down ALL associated accounts if they determine you are "outside of the bounds" of acceptable use as far as AUs are concerned.

Correct.  Chase will shut down all Chase cards, and you will lose all points, and you won't be able to appeal to get them back - the accounts or the points.  They may even close down checking/savings.

The risk overall is hard to quantify.  More slots and more AUs (either at once or over time) increase risk.  Not following the TL companies' recommendations increases risk.

It does seem that many of the big players go through hunting phases.  I imagine they run queries on their customers and search for those accounts with, say, more than 10 AUs lifetime on the account.  They then have analysts look at those accounts and see if it looks like piggybacking.  They then may look at your overall activity and see if they want to keep the account open or close it on you and how much further to go in terms of closing other accounts.  That's my plausible story anyway.

When the TL companies see this, the good ones will preemptively slow down or stop adds with those companies and then carefully proceed after a while to make sure the danger has passed for the time being.

Personally I segregate my piggybacking cards from my regular cards that I use.  On the one hand, this makes it more obvious what I'm doing (piggybacking) if they look at my account history.  On the other hand, if a piggybacking card gets shut down I don't lose several hundred K of UR points or whatever.  I'm comfortable with those tradeoffs.

[redwheel92]

Started selling AUs this summer and have started to get mail delivered with the name of former AUs with my address connected. This has been both promotional mail as well as one letter stating that their request for a credit line through Citizens One Personal Loans was denied. I assume mail is sent to my address since it is linked with their credit history now?

Just wanted to make sure there weren't bigger issues at play here or if this is normal. From a practical standpoint would linking my credit cards with a PO Box prevent this mail from coming to the house?

Thanks!

[secondcor521]

Started selling AUs this summer and have started to get mail delivered with the name of former AUs with my address connected. This has been both promotional mail as well as one letter stating that their request for a credit line through Citizens One Personal Loans was denied. I assume mail is sent to my address since it is linked with their credit history now?

Just wanted to make sure there weren't bigger issues at play here or if this is normal. From a practical standpoint would linking my credit cards with a PO Box prevent this mail from coming to the house?

Thanks!

Yes, it's normal.

Write "Return to sender - not at this address" and drop it back in the mail if it's First Class, otherwise recycle it.

I think using a PO Box would stop the mail from coming to your house.  But you might need to go empty the PO Box out from time to time.  And I think some businesses don't like sending mail to a PO Box.

[jeromedawg]

BTW: I'm seeing this note on one of my Discover accounts -
"You've reached the maximum number of requests to add Authorized Users at this time.
You'll be able to add your next Authorized User on 07/23/2022 if you have fewer than 5 Authorized Users at that time."

Didn't realize this but I guess Discover 'rate-limits' you at a certain threshold? Is this new or has it always been like this?

[secondcor521]

BTW: I'm seeing this note on one of my Discover accounts -
"You've reached the maximum number of requests to add Authorized Users at this time.
You'll be able to add your next Authorized User on 07/23/2022 if you have fewer than 5 Authorized Users at that time."

Didn't realize this but I guess Discover 'rate-limits' you at a certain threshold? Is this new or has it always been like this?

It's been that way for a while.  There have been previous comments on it on this thread...perhaps do a search backwards for those posts?  I think Old Company is aware of the issue.

[MoneyTree]

BTW: I'm seeing this note on one of my Discover accounts -
"You've reached the maximum number of requests to add Authorized Users at this time.
You'll be able to add your next Authorized User on 07/23/2022 if you have fewer than 5 Authorized Users at that time."

Didn't realize this but I guess Discover 'rate-limits' you at a certain threshold? Is this new or has it always been like this?

It's been that way for a while.  There have been previous comments on it on this thread...perhaps do a search backwards for those posts?  I think Old Company is aware of the issue.

Yes, it’s been like this. But I’ve also heard that some people have been able to get around this by actually calling in to add the AU rather than adding online. I haven’t tried myself.

[harrydogyo]

Confirming when discover doesn’t let you add online and you have less than 5 you can call them in no problem.

Really busy to start the year for me with Barclays sales and others.

Had a friend get his Chase accounts  shut down recently.  BofA shut me down a few months back. Never sell an account you can’t afford to lose. 

[ducky19]

Started selling AUs this summer and have started to get mail delivered with the name of former AUs with my address connected. This has been both promotional mail as well as one letter stating that their request for a credit line through Citizens One Personal Loans was denied. I assume mail is sent to my address since it is linked with their credit history now?

Just wanted to make sure there weren't bigger issues at play here or if this is normal. From a practical standpoint would linking my credit cards with a PO Box prevent this mail from coming to the house?

Thanks!

Yes, it's normal.

Write "Return to sender - not at this address" and drop it back in the mail if it's First Class, otherwise recycle it.

I think using a PO Box would stop the mail from coming to your house.  But you might need to go empty the PO Box out from time to time.  And I think some businesses don't like sending mail to a PO Box.

lol, I had someone from the sheriff's department stop by the other day looking for an authorized user to serve them. Second time it's happened. I just told him the person was an authorized user on my credit card, had never lived there, and I didn't know where they lived - he thanked me for my time and left. NBD.

[MoneyTree]

Sales seemed slightly down in the last few months of 2021 but things are already picking up now in early 2022.

I hit the lifetime max on my best Barclays card last year, so I'm in the multi-year process of seasoning a few others. I recently started selling AMEX lines, so that has picked up some of the slack as well. Overall, I made over $12K last year, for doing almost no work. Not bad!

[monarda]

Started selling AUs this summer and have started to get mail delivered with the name of former AUs with my address connected. This has been both promotional mail as well as one letter stating that their request for a credit line through Citizens One Personal Loans was denied. I assume mail is sent to my address since it is linked with their credit history now?

Just wanted to make sure there weren't bigger issues at play here or if this is normal. From a practical standpoint would linking my credit cards with a PO Box prevent this mail from coming to the house?

Thanks!

Yes, it's normal.

Write "Return to sender - not at this address" and drop it back in the mail if it's First Class, otherwise recycle it.

I think using a PO Box would stop the mail from coming to your house.  But you might need to go empty the PO Box out from time to time.  And I think some businesses don't like sending mail to a PO Box.

I get a kick out of some of the mail we get for previous AUs. They're getting their own credit card offers now - which means that they're doing well and the tradeline worked to improve their credit. We smile and say, 'good for you, AU' as we toss the offer into recycling.

[Car Jack]

I find the mail amusing.  In AU names, I get these all the time:

Offers for credit cards.  Sometimes several new AUs get the same mailing from the same company.

Letters from collection agencies.

Letters from government officials.  Sheriffs, courts and such.

[Car Jack]

1099s are available with the old company.  $5450 income for doing close to nothing.  Whenever they open for new cards again, I've got a bunch I can add. 

[Michael in ABQ]

About $1,000 here for my two cards. It was a pretty slow year. Hopefully 2022 is better.

[katsiki]

I got my first AU on an AMEX card this week.  Yahoo!    But...

Amex web site is telling me:

Thanks, XXXX. We've received your application, but we can't give you a decision right now.

Pending personal verification of your application, the following Additional Card(s) will arrive at your primary billing address in a plain white envelope displaying the American Express Blue Box logo, addressed to each individual below, and with a return address in Omaha, Nebraska.

We'll process your application as soon as possible and send you a decision within 14 days.



Is this normal? 

If so, do I mark AU as added on old company's site or wait?

I appreciate any guidance here.  I did not see any instructions about this in initial emails from old co regarding AMEX enrollments.

[harrydogyo]

When I’ve seen that before it was an issue Amex had with the individual (probably defaulted on an Amex card before).  TL companies usually screen for that though so it could be an Amex systems thing too.   Maybe worth chatting with Amex to ask on status or the issue.  When they reject you usually know pretty quick.

[BikeFanatic]

Amex has done that to me also on several occasions. In my experience they will add the user eventually but may take a few days even a week or more. I have added many users to Amex over 50 and they only totally rejected one.

[katsiki]

Thanks for the replies!  I'm hoping for a successful outcome.

[jeromedawg]

Quick question but what is the *typical* payout schedule for you guys based on? Is it based on 2 months (or whatever) from the date you confirmed adding the user OR do all the companies only pay you 2 months from the post date?

I added an AU with a company back on 11/27 and just asked them about payment and they told me this AU didn't post first cycle, implying that I'm not going to get paid this month... I'm a bit confused.

[secondcor521]

Quick question but what is the *typical* payout schedule for you guys based on? Is it based on 2 months (or whatever) from the date you confirmed adding the user OR do all the companies only pay you 2 months from the post date?

I added an AU with a company back on 11/27 and just asked them about payment and they told me this AU didn't post first cycle, implying that I'm not going to get paid this month... I'm a bit confused.

Old Company pays regularly on the last (business?) day of the month following the month in which the AU was added.  So a user added today with Old Company would get paid on 2/28.  Sometimes even a day or two earlier.

I haven't dealt with New Company recently.  Last I did, they paid eventually but it could be months and months and required frequent hounding.

[frozen]

What do you do with the AU cards you receive? Do you shred them? Or just cut them up? My shredder died and I wonder if I should get a new one.

[Padonak]

I bought a cheap Amazon basics shredder that also shreds credit cards. Have been using it for a few years.

[secondcor521]

What do you do with the AU cards you receive? Do you shred them? Or just cut them up? My shredder died and I wonder if I should get a new one.

I activate them (probably overkill, but recommended), stick them in a "piggybacking" folder, then shred them after removing them as AU.  I also track receipt, activation, removal, and destruction dates in my tracking spreadsheet.

[Car Jack]

For me, new company pays after I email them 2 or 3 times asking why I haven't been paid in the last year and a half, then I PM Joe and he works his magic and I get a payment.

Old company is so much better.

[Michael in ABQ]

One of my cards is a Capital One SAVOR and the cards are metal. I've got a stack of them in a drawer (never activated) because I can't shred them. I have a couple of return envelopes and while I know intellectually the person receiving and destroying those metal cards gives zero fucks about TL sales or multiple AUs, I still feel hesitant to send back 4-5 cards with different names in one envelope.

[secondcor521]

One of my cards is a Capital One SAVOR and the cards are metal. I've got a stack of them in a drawer (never activated) because I can't shred them. I have a couple of return envelopes and while I know intellectually the person receiving and destroying those metal cards gives zero fucks about TL sales or multiple AUs, I still feel hesitant to send back 4-5 cards with different names in one envelope.

So send them back one per envelope?

[Michael in ABQ]

One of my cards is a Capital One SAVOR and the cards are metal. I've got a stack of them in a drawer (never activated) because I can't shred them. I have a couple of return envelopes and while I know intellectually the person receiving and destroying those metal cards gives zero fucks about TL sales or multiple AUs, I still feel hesitant to send back 4-5 cards with different names in one envelope.

So send them back one per envelope?

I've got about a dozen cards and only a few return envelopes.

At some point I'll probably just throw them in the trash. It's not like they're any good.

[frugalnacho]

Does anyone run their tradelines as an LLC? Are you able to deduct a card's annual fee as an expense? Are you able to deduct the card's annual expense if you run as a sole proprietor?

[secondcor521]

Does anyone run their tradelines as an LLC? Are you able to deduct a card's annual fee as an expense? Are you able to deduct the card's annual expense if you run as a sole proprietor?

No, yes, and yes.  Probably Schedule C line 10 Commissions and Fees.  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf

[ducky19]

Does anyone run their tradelines as an LLC? Are you able to deduct a card's annual fee as an expense? Are you able to deduct the card's annual expense if you run as a sole proprietor?

No, yes, and yes.  Probably Schedule C line 10 Commissions and Fees.  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf

That's exactly what I do.

[frugalnacho]

Thanks.

Do you also check yes for qualified under 199A?

Do you deduct anything other than annual fees? I can't think of any other business expenses related to tradelines.

[secondcor521]

Thanks.

Do you also check yes for qualified under 199A?

Do you deduct anything other than annual fees? I can't think of any other business expenses related to tradelines.

I think it qualifies for 199A.

There is the SEHI deduction, which is probably the biggest opportunity.  However, if you're on ACA there is an annoying circular reference in the tax code.

You could evaluate whether or not you qualify for the simplified method for a home office deduction.  The bar I found there was that the IRS requires that the space be exclusively used for the business, and "exclusive" is a high bar.

Perhaps you could deduct the cost of a shredder if you bought it to shred AU cards and correspondence.

In theory you could deduct a proportion of your cell phone and internet bills used for business purposes, but that amount is probably small enough to be a rounding error.

You could take a look at Schedule C and see if any of the other line items jump out at you as possibilities, then research items in those areas.

[Padonak]

One of my cards is a Capital One SAVOR and the cards are metal. I've got a stack of them in a drawer (never activated) because I can't shred them. I have a couple of return envelopes and while I know intellectually the person receiving and destroying those metal cards gives zero fucks about TL sales or multiple AUs, I still feel hesitant to send back 4-5 cards with different names in one envelope.

So send them back one per envelope?

I've got about a dozen cards and only a few return envelopes.

At some point I'll probably just throw them in the trash. It's not like they're any good.

When I closed my metal cards, I just wrote "closed" on them with a permanent marker, bent them and threw them in the trash. Never had a problem.

[frozen]

Does anyone run their tradelines as an LLC? Are you able to deduct a card's annual fee as an expense? Are you able to deduct the card's annual expense if you run as a sole proprietor?

I don’t do an LLc, but a sole proprietorship. My accountant deducts my home office expenses and I contribute to a SEP IRA from my AU income as well.

[Michael in ABQ]

Does anyone run their tradelines as an LLC? Are you able to deduct a card's annual fee as an expense? Are you able to deduct the card's annual expense if you run as a sole proprietor?

No, yes, and yes.  Probably Schedule C line 10 Commissions and Fees.  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf

That's exactly what I do.

Same here. I've got three Schedule Cs for different side businesses. One LLC and two sole proprietorships.

[Car Jack]

One of my cards is a Capital One SAVOR and the cards are metal. I've got a stack of them in a drawer (never activated) because I can't shred them. I have a couple of return envelopes and while I know intellectually the person receiving and destroying those metal cards gives zero fucks about TL sales or multiple AUs, I still feel hesitant to send back 4-5 cards with different names in one envelope.

So send them back one per envelope?

Whoa.  Are the AU card numbers the same as your number?  Most cards, they are.  If that's the case and you throw them in the trash, someone finds them, they can spend, spend, spend until the charges get caught by you or the credit card company.
I've got about a dozen cards and only a few return envelopes.

At some point I'll probably just throw them in the trash. It's not like they're any good.

[Michael in ABQ]

One of my cards is a Capital One SAVOR and the cards are metal. I've got a stack of them in a drawer (never activated) because I can't shred them. I have a couple of return envelopes and while I know intellectually the person receiving and destroying those metal cards gives zero fucks about TL sales or multiple AUs, I still feel hesitant to send back 4-5 cards with different names in one envelope.

So send them back one per envelope?

I've got about a dozen cards and only a few return envelopes.

At some point I'll probably just throw them in the trash. It's not like they're any good.

Whoa.  Are the AU card numbers the same as your number?  Most cards, they are.  If that's the case and you throw them in the trash, someone finds them, they can spend, spend, spend until the charges get caught by you or the credit card company.

Nope, unique numbers on each one - they don't match my card (or the AU card my wife has). Also, they've never been activated and since they don't have my name on them there's no connection to my social security number - which is usually needed to activate a card.

[bangbang]

I have a unique question. I believe I have run against a wall with my total limit across all my cards. My requests for credit limit increases are being denied. I have a high credit limit on Chase and BOA cards, which I don't want to sell tradelines on anymore because I don't want them closed (they are my oldest cards). I believe my high combined limit is limiting my ability to get more credit.

Would it be a wise strategy to seek credit limit reductions on my BOA and Chase cards to get higher credit limits on my less risky cards (like Barclays)? Has anyone tried this?