Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking Part II: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig

[secondcor521]

Has anyone heard anything back from the new company? I sent them an email two days ago.

I e-mailed them early on 12/29 and heard back before noon that day.  Today I e-mailed again with the required docs and got an auto reply that they are closed until 1/3 for the holiday.

I've had a couple of back and forths too, including the signup paperwork.

[medinaj2160]

:( do you guys email the company directly or submitted an application through their website?

[secondcor521]

I used the email provided by ARS in the PM he sent me when I asked for a referral.

[dlawson]

I sent an email last night and haven't heard back yet either. But that was expected since many are off for the New Year holiday (including me!). I'm sure we'll all hear back next week—it seems like there's plenty to go around. :)

[kpd905]

I just heard back and was told that they only accept cards of 2+ years age and $10,000+.

[dragoncar]

I'm sure they want to spend time with their families instead of responding to emails right now.  I know there's FOMO, but I plan to sign up later in Jan.

[medinaj2160]

I just heard back from the company. Thanks guys

[arebelspy]

UPDATE: Because of the surge of demand from Mustachians, they are going to focus initially on enrolling people with cards of 10k+ limits, and 2 years old or older to get them into the system.

Like I mentioned in the OP, cards < 2 years, or with < 10k limit sell much less frequently.  Thus it makes more sense to initially concentrate on getting all the cards that their AUs want enrolled first, so they can be put to use right away.

I'd anticipate this changing back to accepting lower cards once they've got all the higher limit/older cards enrolled and demand for them filled, and I will post an update when that is the case.

(In the meantime, I have updated the original post to mention and link to this update.)

Work on bumping the limits on the cards that are low!  :)

And yes, they are closing for a few days for NYE.  You can feel free to email them in the meantime, just expect a wait until early next week for a reply.  After that, replies should be quick.

Next week will be a busy week for them.  ;)

[tj]

The form they want us to fill out has a "payment due date" on it. Most of these cards are cards I ahve not used in ages, so they don't have a payment due date. Do I need a statement to close with a balance before I submit a card to them?

[secondcor521]

The form they want us to fill out has a "payment due date" on it. Most of these cards are cards I ahve not used in ages, so they don't have a payment due date. Do I need a statement to close with a balance before I submit a card to them?

Lots of times you can go online and look at old statements, which will have the closing date on them.

Sometimes the closing date will be listed in the account information online.

Or you can always call the issuer and ask them.

[tj]

The form they want us to fill out has a "payment due date" on it. Most of these cards are cards I ahve not used in ages, so they don't have a payment due date. Do I need a statement to close with a balance before I submit a card to them?

Lots of times you can go online and look at old statements, which will have the closing date on them.

Sometimes the closing date will be listed in the account information online.

Or you can always call the issuer and ask them.

This company seems to want the payment due date rather than the statement close date.

[bigalsmith101]

This company seems to want the payment due date rather than the statement close date.

I literally just finished the paperwork and sent it in. All of my cards' statements listed the payment due date on old statements. Like you, I haven't used many of the cards in years. I checked my statements online, as I went paperless many years ago.

[arebelspy]

Sheesh.  No matter how long you spend typing up and rereading stuff, you always forget something!

Yes, thank you for the catch, TJ.

I encountered this same thing in October when I first signed up with them to test it out.

I confirmed (multiple times, because it seemed weird to me) that they want the payment due date, rather than the statement close, and that is correct.

On some cards I had not used in a long time I had to dig up old statements (one from like 2009, IIRC).

One didn't have statements back that far, but I was able to search in my email for an old "Reminder: Your payment is due" email and find it.

Worst case you can either call the CC company and ask what the payment due date is (and even have them move it), or do a small token charge.

So yes, this company wants the payment due date (the old one wanted the statement close date).

[MrMonkeyMoustache]

Not saying it's not legit, but very suspicious.

[arebelspy]

Not saying it's not legit, but very suspicious.

What is?

Selling tradelines?

It very much sounded crazy too good to be true, possibly illegal, when I first heard of it, too. 

That's why I did all the research initially, to find out how it works, that it is legal, etc.  That led to the first thread.

And then again why I did a lot of research looking for a new company.  Because some do it right, and some don't.  That led to this updated one.

The proof is in the pudding as far as it being legit: Dozens of Mustachians have gotten paid thousands of dollars over the last 5.5 months since I posted the original thread.

It's absolutely real.

If it's not something you're comfortable with though, definitely don't do it.

:)

[dlawson]

Ah, I just got the "only accepting $10k+ and 2yr+" email as well. I have several cards that need another few months and one 2yr+ Chase that needs another ~$4k (though I just requested an increase on it).

Bummer! Will have to wait a bit; hopefully they're still accepting new accounts in July or so!

[PennySaved75]

I just heard back and was told that they only accept cards of 2+ years age and $10,000+.

I contacted them on 12/29 using email that Arebelspy gave me and sent them my card info.  Have had some back and forth emails since then, and sent them my completed paperwork this afternoon.   I completed a cardholder agreement, a Form W-9, and a copy of a voided check (for sending payments to your checking account) and sent those items back to them first. Yes, i was also told that card must be at least 2 years old and with credit limit of $10,000+.  I was told it would be a week or two for them to put my cards into their system and then they would be contacting me.

[PennySaved75]

So yes, this company wants the payment due date (the old one wanted the statement close date).

Rats.  I think I put the statement closing date on the paperwork I just submitted.  Good thing I am reading the blog.  The table says:  Payment DUE date, not sure why I was putting the closing date.  Will have to fix and resubmit.

[tj]

Which CC companies allow you to add and remove AUs online?  I have only used Discovery so far.

Barclays lets you do both, and Chase.

B of A lets you add online, but you have to call to remove.

Capital One can definitely add online, and I think lets you remove, but I can't remember 100%.

Discover, like you said, lets you do both.

Can't say for Citi or any of the other ones, hopefully someone else will chime in.

USAA is a phone call both to add and remove.

Have you had any pushback? I don't know if it's worth doing this with USAA because I don't want to risk losing my insurance policies. Similarly, I wouldn't be doing this was a bank that I had a cehcking or savings account (i'd generally advise against having deposit accounts at banks you use credit with anyway.)

Yes.  I think I mentioned it in the old thread, but I had three AU's to add to my USAA card - which already had two AUs from the previous month - and was under the impression that it was best if I added one per call.  So I called, added the first new AU, then hung up.  I called back a second time a day later and added the second new AU, then hung up.  When I called to add the final AU, they put me through to a very distrustful fraud guy who asked me quite a number of authentication questions and asked me why I wanted to add so many AU's.  Eventually, though, they did add the final AU.

I bank and have credit at many banks, but my main checking account plus my insurance products are at USAA.  If they close my USAA credit card, that would be OK.  Closing my bank account or my insurance lines would be more problematic.  I haven't heard of the latter happening, but maybe it could.

I wouldn't personally risk it. The worst case scenario is that you get blacklisted completely by the financial institution. If they close an inactive credit card, who cares, but if they nuke your insurance policies and hold your deposited cash hostage? No thanks.

[TomTX]

What is the AU cap for Capital One?

Is there a chart somewhere for AU caps and the various banks? I saw the examples in the first post, but only a few banks were used.

Thank you.

[arebelspy]

Here is the info I have on that from the owner.  Basically they have a guideline range they use by default, and they won't go higher than that when placing AUs, but you can go higher than that if you want.

Here is an overview of how many adds we recommend on each card. We can do more if your prefer but that will increase the odds of account closure though.

Citibank: 4-5 adds every other month
Barclays: 4-5 adds every month
Discover: 3 adds every other month
BofA: 2-3 adds every 3 months
Capital One: 2-3 adds every 3 months
US Bank: 3 adds every other month
PNC: 2 adds every other month
Chase: 2-3 adds every 3 months
USAA: 3 AUs every other month

The reason why it's a "range" is because it's not just a limit on how many AUs can be on at once, but a formula on how much "activity" you do, whereby both removals and adds are taken into account.

So if you had no AUs, it'll be at the top of that range. If you had some, and need to remove them, it'll be at the bottom.

Quoting from their CS rep:

There is a max number of adds/removals a month.  For example - any given month on a Citi - there can only be 6 adds/removals total.  This can effect the max amount of AUs you can add in a month. Barclays is 8.

So, for example, if Barclays is 8, and you have 4 to remove, you can only add 4.  But if you have none to remove, you can add 5 instead.

As I said in the write up, this company has years more experience, so they have developed a more complex formula to help and not get cards cancelled.

Hope that clarifies things!  :)

EDIT: Added in some more details after email response.

[.22guy]

Speaking of closures, I have an idea I've been considering.  Would it be better to activate the card and use it for something small?  Like a Redbox movie or bill you were going to pay anyway?  I realize this might be straying slightly closer to the fraud side of the line for some.

[arebelspy]

Speaking of closures, I have an idea I've been considering.  Would it be better to activate the card and use it for something small?  Like a Redbox movie or bill you were going to pay anyway?  I realize this might be straying slightly closer to the fraud side of the line for some.

I wouldn't, personally.

There's just no need.  Closures are so infrequent, if you use a company that does everything right.

Mustachians sold tons of lines in the last 5.5 months, with zero closures (well, one, but that was from someone not using one of the recommended tradeline companies, and then their card got cancelled almost right away--this shows that yes, closures can happen, and shows why it's so important to use good companies). 

With closures so rare, why do something like that?

And there's no evidence that would even help--it might be AU adds/removes (and likely is) that is the red flag, regardless of card usage.  Heck, it could even raise red flags itself (since they can see the address of that AU, and also where the spend is done).

So doing something like that when it's possibly fraudulent, likely unnecessary because cards rarely cancel, and possibly won't even help even if you do...  Why risk it?

It's always up to you what you want to do, of course, just providing why not only I wouldn't, but why I think it's not necessary/helpful.  :)

[TomTX]

That followup on the add/remove formula was incredibly helpful.

Oh, and to add to the data: total earnings with the original company: $900.

One card, 2 credit lines - and I dawdled before signing up.

[arebelspy]

That followup on the add/remove formula was incredibly helpful.

Yeah, I had gotten the info before on the fact that the cap is a range, but didn't understand why until this follow-up email.

Thanks for asking, was interesting to find out.

And doesn't surprise me at all about this company, that they have a more involved formula for that which they've developed.  Totally fits with multiple things I like about them.

Oh, and to add to the data: total earnings with the original company: $900.

One card, 2 credit lines - and I dawdled before signing up.

Nice. :D

I think sales should be even more with this company, as I outlined in the comparison.

[kudy]

Just emailed asking to enroll 2 of my cards with the "new" company - I am trying the 2 cards that have received the fewest orders with the "old" company - looking forward to seeing how well it works! Definitely *not* looking forward to tracking everything manually - I like the sleek online dashboard of "old" company ;)

Side thought - do you think the companies are reading this thread? Have you told them who "we" are?

My year end totals for the "old" company (to encourage everyone else?):

• Signed up in June, just got in and had 2 orders right at the end of June, first full month was July
• Was paid a total of $4,525 in 2016 with 38 order (7 cards of varying ages and limits enrolled)
• I will get paid for 2 orders from Dec in the new year, but I've been too lazy to figure out exactly how much (I'm a bit disappointed in the low volume in Dec.)
• A majority of orders over the past 6 months were on 2 cards: a less than 2 years old Barclay card with $10,100 limit (15 out of 38, 39%) and my oldest card from 2008, also with a $10,100 limit (11 out of 38. 28%) - based on this, I don't know if there's really any rhyme or reason for why some spots sell with the "old" company, luck of the draw?
• My best sales months were September ($1,375) and November ($1,125)

[arebelspy]

Just emailed asking to enroll 2 of my cards with the "new" company - I am trying the 2 cards that have received the fewest orders with the "old" company - looking forward to seeing how well it works!

Absolutely worth a shot.  And likely the ones that saw sales at the old one would see even more, but might as well move the lower producers first to see how they do.  :)

Definitely *not* looking forward to tracking everything manually - I like the sleek online dashboard of "old" company ;)

100% agree, and have expressed this, and the owner is aware that he needs to work on this.  :)

Side thought - do you think the companies are reading this thread? Have you told them who "we" are?

Both owners definitely are aware of it.

[Pizzabrewer]

This is fascinating. Thanks for all your work and for sharing it.

Unfortunately I only have 2 cards the oldest of which is 6 months. How likely is this still to be possible in 2 years? 

Also, do you know what factors the cc issuers use in determining credit limit increases?  I requested a bump from $5k to $15k but they (PNC) only gave me $7500. Is it income?  Credit rating? History of usage? Something else?  I figure I have time to work on it.

Thanks again. I'm pretty new to all this stuff.

[arebelspy]

do you know what factors the cc issuers use in determining credit limit increases?  I requested a bump from $5k to $15k but they (PNC) only gave me $7500. Is it income?  Credit rating? History of usage? Something else?  I figure I have time to work on it.

I believe all of those can play a role, yes.  Better to ask for more and see what they'll give you, IMO.

How likely is this still to be possible in 2 years?

Good question.

You know, when I started this last June, I was thinking this maybe would last a year.  I'd be ecstatic if  it lasted two.

So I didn't open any new cards for this (and told people I probably wouldn't, and that I wasn't, when they asked if they should).  Now I'm second guessing that.

It's been six months, and it's going strong.  Even more importantly, the old recommendation has been in business four years, so I thought, hey, maybe there's a few years left.

But the new recommendation has been in business TEN years.  I specifically asked the owner about the longevity of this stuff, and he says that while things change in the field (carriers get or remove restrictions, they have to provide different documentation, etc.), he doesn't see it going away, just constantly changing.

I'm about to be under 5/24 for Chase soon, and apply for the Sapphire Reserve, but once I get that, I may do a huge app-o-rama for like 10-20 cards for each of us, from a bunch of the different accepted issuers, basically apply for anything as long as it has no annual fee.  Hopefully get a bunch, then request credit increases on them every 3 months, and wait two years.

Then... profit?

It's hard to say it will last for sure, and I'm not counting on it... but I've definitely upgraded my probability of this being around at least 2-3 years as much more likely than not.   No reason to not take advantage of it now, in case it does get cancelled (would be a bummer to keep delaying on doing it, then find out a new law or FICO scoring change makes it not feasible or something, and realize you missed out on six months or a year of tradeline sales just due to procrastination), but I do think it will be here for awhile.

Summary: Six months of "wow, this really does work" combined with "wow, the new recommended company has been doing it a decade" has shifted my opinion to thinking this will be around for a good while yet.

[TomTX]

I'm on the fence on applying for many new cards just for piggybacking, sure I might start making more money in a couple of years - but that's going to be more stuff for me to keep an eye on in the meantime.

[DavidAnnArbor]

Maybe someone has an answer, but the old recommended company's web portal says they've sold 2 of 2 spots on the Discover card I have on file with them, and the statement date they have is for today the 1st (the real statement date is the 4th).
 Yesterday it said they sold 1 of 2 spots on this card. So are they suggesting they sold a tradeline on New Year's Eve? I sent an email out to investor support yesterday, the 31st, asking if they have a tradeline sale to let me know the info. for adding the authorized user since the deadline for adding the authorized user is like a day or two away. I got no response, which is not surprising given the holiday time.

So are they going to sit on my Discover card for 30 days now, and I'm supposed to add the authorized users by Feb. 1st?  That seems like a long time to state I have tradeline sales, and have me wait to add authorized users, which is frustrating.

[Avatar]

Arebelspy,What kind of Research do you do?  Can you give tips, so I may do some of my own.

Thanks

[FrugalSaver]

What's the best Barclays card to sign up for?

Also,  doesn't amazon have a card that gets you prime for free when you sign up?

[Shade00]

This is really fascinating. I am leaning towards giving this a try. I have three cards that might work... a Discover with a $13k limit (2009), a Citi Visa with a $10.1k limit (not sure on year), and a Chase Freedom card that's just under a $10k limit (2012). I don't want to call Chase and ask for a CLI because they're pretty bad about doing hard pulls.

[FrugalSaver]

For the citi card, does an American Airliens advantage card work or is that considered a "business card"?

[FrugalSaver]

If there's a closed credit card on my credit report, is it possible to re-open it as opposed to opening a new line of credit?  I have one from 1996 that closed in 2013, for example without me explicitly closing it.  It's a bank of america card.

[FrugalSaver]

1) I Have most of these cards, but for each one, is there one in particular one would recommend opening for use with tradelines?

2) Also, for Bank Of America, does a BofA WORLD POINTs card work for this?  I have one of those too.

3) What about a AAA Bank of America card? (or is this considered a "business card")

Barclays,

Citi,

Discover,

PNC,

USAA,

US Bank,

Bank of America,

Capital One,

Elan Financial,

Worlds Foremost Bank

Chase.

[TomTX]

If there's a closed credit card on my credit report, is it possible to re-open it as opposed to opening a new line of credit?  I have one from 1996 that closed in 2013, for example without me explicitly closing it.  It's a bank of america card.

Typically it is difficult to re-open a closed card, particularly if it is more than 30 days since it was closed.

[TomTX]

This is really fascinating. I am leaning towards giving this a try. I have three cards that might work... a Discover with a $13k limit (2009), a Citi Visa with a $10.1k limit (not sure on year), and a Chase Freedom card that's just under a $10k limit (2012). I don't want to call Chase and ask for a CLI because they're pretty bad about doing hard pulls.

Discover hasn't been doing hard pulls on me and have been slowly bumping up my limit. This summer I started at $3,600 and just yesterday got bumped to $11,200 - you can ask for increases every 60 days.*

Citi just denied my increase requests :( - I need to see if I can reallocate some credit line from the Hilton card to the Doublecash. From what I read, the front-line CSRs (ha!) typically don't know how to handle it.

*Okay, you can ASK more often, but from what I read and experienced, they typically won't raise it. Better to just do it every 60 days.

[monarda]

Thanks for the writeup, arebelspy. I've been following the old thread now and then, so nice to have your summary here.

Two questions:
You might remember that one of the things I liked about this idea was the possibility to help people needing a credit boost who had bad credit through no fault of their own. (for example, medical bills)  I know that there wasn't a way that the old company could specifically send these kinds of AUs my way, but is there such a thing with the new company?

The second question is a general question (but for me more specifically about my one year old Cap One card, which was too young for the old company)  Is there a preferred credit utilization on a particular card?   Is a barely-used card better from these companies' perspectives?  Say that I have a 10K credit limit on a card, and am carrying a 9K balance at 0% interest for 18 months, paying 2x the minimum payment for a while until I decide to pay more aggressively. Might either company be interested in this card?  I also have a mature US Bank card that I use relatively infrequently (something like 5-10% of credit limit, paid off every month). That one was the one I was considering using to sign up with the old company. (I never did).

[TomTX]

Typically they will want low-usage cards with some usage. IIRC the old company wanted you to stay below 10% utilization, but above $0.

[FrugalSaver]

I signed up for the AT&T credit card a year or two ago and it's now a citi card.  Could that be used for tradelines or is that also considered a "business card"?

[TomTX]

I signed up for the AT&T credit card a year or two ago and it's now a citi card.  Could that be used for tradelines or is that also considered a "business card"?

Probably not a business card. Co-branded cards are not business cards. Lots of hotels, airlines, etc co-brand with banks (Hilton Citi card, Marriott Chase card, etc) and are not business cards.

Typically a "Business card" is supposed to be used BY a business. Example: Chase Ink, where you need to own a business to open the card.

[FrugalSaver]

I signed up for the AT&T credit card a year or two ago and it's now a citi card.  Could that be used for tradelines or is that also considered a "business card"?

Probably not a business card. Co-branded cards are not business cards. Lots of hotels, airlines, etc co-brand with banks (Hilton Citi card, Marriott Chase card, etc) and are not business cards.

Typically a "Business card" is supposed to be used BY a business. Example: Chase Ink, where you need to own a business to open the card.

That's good to hear. The att card is I believe $95 / year.   Is it typically possible to move that credit line to another card and keep the member since date?  Secondly, if i simply re-open this card, would i maintain the original member since date of a couple of years ago?

[tj]

I signed up for the AT&T credit card a year or two ago and it's now a citi card.  Could that be used for tradelines or is that also considered a "business card"?

Depends on if you have the personal card or the business card. The business card looks like this:

http://www.moneycrashers.com/att-universal-business-card-review/

[Shade00]

This is really fascinating. I am leaning towards giving this a try. I have three cards that might work... a Discover with a $13k limit (2009), a Citi Visa with a $10.1k limit (not sure on year), and a Chase Freedom card that's just under a $10k limit (2012). I don't want to call Chase and ask for a CLI because they're pretty bad about doing hard pulls.

Discover hasn't been doing hard pulls on me and have been slowly bumping up my limit. This summer I started at $3,600 and just yesterday got bumped to $11,200 - you can ask for increases every 60 days.*

Citi just denied my increase requests :( - I need to see if I can reallocate some credit line from the Hilton card to the Doublecash. From what I read, the front-line CSRs (ha!) typically don't know how to handle it.

*Okay, you can ASK more often, but from what I read and experienced, they typically won't raise it. Better to just do it every 60 days.

Discover has been great about CLIs for me, really - I actually just requested a CLI and they gave me $2k without any issue (now $17.9k on that card).

It seems like Chase has only ever given me one auto CLI on the Freedom card, and everything I'm reading online says they want to do hard pulls. I only need a couple hundred bucks increase to get over the $10k line with that one.

[rich182x]

I sent an email last night and haven't heard back yet either. But that was expected since many are off for the New Year holiday (including me!). I'm sure we'll all hear back next week—it seems like there's plenty to go around. :)

FWIW, I heard back from this company just to see what they would offer, and I got an auto reply (cut and paste info) without them answering my actual question. After I told them I would take my business elsewhere they responded with an apology and explained the received over 120 applications in one day! I am happy with the one on one contact I get with the company I chose before asking ARS what he was pitching (which has been in business for 10 years) and I am worried this company everyone is jumping on now will get diluted and payments will be scarce. Just a thought. I mean, how many people pay for credit boosts??


FIRST POST EVER!!

[arebelspy]

FWIW, I heard back from this company just to see what they would offer, and I got an auto reply (cut and paste info) without them answering my actual question. After I told them I would take my business elsewhere they responded with an apology

It's literally New Year's day, give them a little slack.  :)

Seems like it was pretty awesome of them to reply to you individually essentially right away with an apology about that, when they're overwhelmed with replies/interest, and on vacation! 

You can take your business elsewhere, but like I said, I can't find any other companies besides these two recommendations that I'd trust using, and you can see from the earlier response of the person who had his CC cancelled after just a few AUs as to why.  :)

It's absolutely worth researching though, definitely use a company you're comfortable with.

I am worried this company everyone is jumping on now will get diluted and payments will be scarce. Just a thought.

The vast majority of those who email won't sign up for an account or enroll any cards.

Only a small percent of people I referred to the previous program actually ever took the step of enrolling cards, most just asked out of curiosity, wanting to research more, etc.

Like I outlined in the writeup, I expect them to be able to handle a lot higher volume of tradelines due to the affiliate network they have and have built up over the last decade.  They right now have more demand for cards than they do cards.  Mustachians will help balance that, and may tip it the other way, but it should certainly be better.

So yes, it could happen.  I'm less worried about it here than elsewhere.  And the only solution is to not share this with Mustachians, which I don't care for. See this post as to why:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/moderators-only/selling-tradelines-piggybacking-part-ii-$1000hr-20-40kyr-side-gig/msg1356360/#msg1356360

I mean, how many people pay for credit boosts??

Many.  Many, many.

FIRST POST EVER!!

Welcome to the forums!  :)

[rich182x]

I sent an email last night and haven't heard back yet either. But that was expected since many are off for the New Year holiday (including me!). I'm sure we'll all hear back next week—it seems like there's plenty to go around. :)

FWIW, I heard back from this company just to see what they would offer, and I got an auto reply (cut and paste info) without them answering my actual question. After I told them I would take my business elsewhere they responded with an apology and explained the received over 120 applications in one day! I am happy with the one on one contact I get with the company I chose before asking ARS what he was pitching (which has been in business for 10 years) and I am worried this company everyone is jumping on now will get diluted and payments will be scarce. Just a thought. I mean, how many people pay for credit boosts??


FIRST POST EVER!!

Oh! Happy New Year and good luck to all!

[katsiki]

120 applications...  That sounds very high.

ARS, do you know how many Mustachians signed up with the old recommendation?