Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking Part II: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig

[erutio]

Do tax forms come in the mail or email or do you go to the website to get them? When do you expect them? Has anyone else received them yet? I forget if I'm with old or new company but not sure how long I should wait.

You go to the PayChex website for the old company.

[cooking]

I just emailed w/Erica of the new company b/c I never received my 1099 from them.  She told me they only send them out when you receive more than $600 from them.  In my case, that's a shame b/c I wanted to have more "earnings" (which posters on this thread have stated that you can count your payments from piggybacking as) so that I could make my full IRA contribution.

[arebelspy]

Good news for you then! You can, and should, report all income, whether you receive a 1099 or not. :)

[secondcor521]

I just emailed w/Erica of the new company b/c I never received my 1099 from them.  She told me they only send them out when you receive more than $600 from them.  In my case, that's a shame b/c I wanted to have more "earnings" (which posters on this thread have stated that you can count your payments from piggybacking as) so that I could make my full IRA contribution.

If you report it as hobby income or other income on Schedule 1 line 8, then it is not counted as earned income and cannot be the basis for an IRA contribution.

If you report it as Schedule C income, then it is earned income and can be the basis for an IRA contribution.

As ARS points out, even if you don't receive a 1099 from the company, you still should report the income.

So if, say, you received $75 from them and reported it on Schedule C, you would be entitled to make $75 worth of IRA contribution.  (Assuming of course that you met all the other requirements to make an IRA contribution, but the requirements for that are pretty low these days.)

[ducky19]

Had a sheriff's deputy stop by the house today looking to serve a summons for one of my AUs. I told him the truth, that she had been an authorized user on my credit card, but that she didn't live here and I'd never met her. Would probably have been a little scary had it not been that I had the FBI call once about an AU a few years ago... After that, it's gonna take more than that to rattle me!

[frozen]

Had a sheriff's deputy stop by the house today looking to serve a summons for one of my AUs. I told him the truth, that she had been an authorized user on my credit card, but that she didn't live here and I'd never met her. Would probably have been a little scary had it not been that I had the FBI call once about an AU a few years ago... After that, it's gonna take more than that to rattle me!

Thanks for sharing with the community so we know in advance that these things can happen. I once had someone from the State’s Attorneys office stop by looking for an AU, and I was unsure at the time if it was a previous AU or not. How do you know it was really the FBI that called you a few years ago?

[ducky19]

Had a sheriff's deputy stop by the house today looking to serve a summons for one of my AUs. I told him the truth, that she had been an authorized user on my credit card, but that she didn't live here and I'd never met her. Would probably have been a little scary had it not been that I had the FBI call once about an AU a few years ago... After that, it's gonna take more than that to rattle me!

Thanks for sharing with the community so we know in advance that these things can happen. I once had someone from the State’s Attorneys office stop by looking for an AU, and I was unsure at the time if it was a previous AU or not. How do you know it was really the FBI that called you a few years ago?

Went back and looked at my notes - it was actually the Department of Homeland Security. I suppose to answer your question, I don't know it was them. However, the phone number was (312)-000-0000 and they introduced themselves as being from DHS. The person I spoke to was not at all pushy or otherwise raising any scam red flags, just asked about the person and if they lived at my address, if I had any knowledge of their nationality, political affiliation, etc. I admitted I didn't know them and that they didn't live at my address, they asked a couple more questions, thanked me for my time, and let me go. They overall were very cool and detached and exactly what I would expect from someone from a legit government agency. Can I be 100% certain? No, but I have no reason to believe they weren't exactly who they said they were.

[Car Jack]

I would think that pointing any authorities to the tradeline company to find out where the suspect actually lives would be helpful.  The longer I've been selling tradelines, the more often I receive collection notices on one of them at least weekly.  I sort of chuckle with every notice and the offers.  Yes, I open them and look to see what the letter says (OMG, I'm committing a Federal offence!).  Most say something like "Your original debt was $2950.  Collection costs are $495.  We're offering you a one time deal to pay $1953 or 10 payments of $200.12."

[frozen]

I would think that pointing any authorities to the tradeline company to find out where the suspect actually lives would be helpful.  The longer I've been selling tradelines, the more often I receive collection notices on one of them at least weekly.  I sort of chuckle with every notice and the offers.  Yes, I open them and look to see what the letter says (OMG, I'm committing a Federal offence!).  Most say something like "Your original debt was $2950.  Collection costs are $495.  We're offering you a one time deal to pay $1953 or 10 payments of $200.12."

I would not volunteer any information to any authority. You have no obligation to be helpful.

[Padonak]

Just tried to add an AU to my barclaycard. First message was "user not added" and then on the Account Services page, the Au's name was highlighted and Barclays requested additional information - to confirm DOB, citizenship, relationship and address, which I did. So now the AU is shown on the list of AUs but I didn't get any messages or emails confirming that AU was added.

Question: does it mean the AU wasn't added? Has anyone seen anything similar?

[dantheman46]

Just tried to add an AU to my barclaycard. First message was "user not added" and then on the Account Services page, the Au's name was highlighted and Barclays requested additional information - to confirm DOB, citizenship, relationship and address, which I did. So now the AU is shown on the list of AUs but I didn't get any messages or emails confirming that AU was added.

Question: does it mean the AU wasn't added? Has anyone seen anything similar?

I believe once they're fully added, they will show up as having a card which the last 4 digits of will be displayed.

[Padonak]

Just tried to add an AU to my barclaycard. First message was "user not added" and then on the Account Services page, the Au's name was highlighted and Barclays requested additional information - to confirm DOB, citizenship, relationship and address, which I did. So now the AU is shown on the list of AUs but I didn't get any messages or emails confirming that AU was added.

Question: does it mean the AU wasn't added? Has anyone seen anything similar?

I believe once they're fully added, they will show up as having a card which the last 4 digits of will be displayed.

Yes I can see the last four digits and other details, same as usual. What's weird is that I didn't get the usual confirmation email. Anyway it looks like it's been added.

[Michael in ABQ]

My last sale with the old company was in September. Anyone else seeing a slowdown? That card did hit the 2-year mark in October so it went from $25 to $125 per spot (and presumably for buyers the price went up considerably as well). Unfortunately, I haven't had any sales on it since it went up to the higher amount. Looking at the consumer side of the website it looks like my card is probably priced in the $750+ range but there's similar cards that are sub $500.

[arebelspy]

I've seen a slowdown as well since the fall (after tons of sales last year). I'm thinking there may be a sales boost soon due to tax refunds and stimulus checks; we'll see.

[MasterStache]

Yep! Big time slowdown. I have 2-3 more cards aging into the system this year so we'll see if things pick up.

[harrydogyo]

I mean most of the sales are people trying to buy a home or a car.  Have to figure there’s some seasonality to that and a comeback ahead.  If rising rates cool the mortgage market that might slow things as well.

[DK82]

I emailed the old company and got a reply that they're not adding anyone new, but I'd be put on a waitlist (or something like that).  Fair enough. 

Emailed the new company and didn't get any sort of reply --- do they just not reply when they're not adding new people, or should I follow up?

[arebelspy]

I emailed the old company and got a reply that they're not adding anyone new, but I'd be put on a waitlist (or something like that).  Fair enough. 

Emailed the new company and didn't get any sort of reply --- do they just not reply when they're not adding new people, or should I follow up?

Their customer service in general tends to be like that. I'd give it a bit and then follow up.

[chuckster]

I've seen a slowdown as well since the fall (after tons of sales last year). I'm thinking there may be a sales boost soon due to tax refunds and stimulus checks; we'll see.

I just about hit 100 sales, so I ran a quick chart on my spreadsheet. I'm showing most of my orders come in Dec-Jan-Feb and then level off after that for the rest of the year.

I guess, though, by having cards with both Old and New company, that my payments tend to be pretty even all year round... the Old company will pay me for those Dec-Jan-Feb sales in Feb & March. The New company won't make payments for the same sales until Aug/Sept/Oct given how slow they are... so overall it tends to level out over the whole year! /s LOL

[harrydogyo]

Question for the group on Barclays.

One company I sell with asks for AUs to be called in so you can give the social, the other just to do it online without the social.  So far all of the ones I've done online have posted for me but a saw on here someone had some issues with Barclays posting.  Anyone have a sense if calling in makes a difference?

[katsiki]

Question for the group on Barclays.

One company I sell with asks for AUs to be called in so you can give the social, the other just to do it online without the social.  So far all of the ones I've done online have posted for me but a saw on here someone had some issues with Barclays posting.  Anyone have a sense if calling in makes a difference?

I have been adding online only for at least a year with no posting issues.

[chuckster]

Question for the group on Barclays.

One company I sell with asks for AUs to be called in so you can give the social, the other just to do it online without the social.  So far all of the ones I've done online have posted for me but a saw on here someone had some issues with Barclays posting.  Anyone have a sense if calling in makes a difference?

What's weird is... the old company tells me to do it online only. That works fine with the Barclay card I have with them.

The new company tells me to call in, for a different Barclay card I have with that company. That also works fine.

BUT... a couple of times i've switched the procedures because I forgot which company was which, and sure enough, when I tried to call in and add for the old company, instead of doing it online, it didn't post, and when I went online for new company instead of calling, it didn't post either. Maybe just a random chance occurrence. But since I rarely use either card as my daily card in my wallet, I just taped a post-it to both reminding me which is the call-in and which is online.

[merula]

I have Barclays with the new company and tbh I never call, but I do enter the address online. That amount of info seems to be plenty to make it post, at least in my experience.

[frugalnacho]

I just sold my first spot on my barclays and I entered it online without ssn, but used DOB and address.   

When I log into the portal on the old company it shows a scanned jpeg of the ss card and drivers license for a previous AU I've added to my discover card.  It's listed in the "issues" column. Discover never requested anything from me so I don't know why it's there.  Anyone know what's up with that?  I haven't seen that in any other AU I've had.

[secondcor521]

I'm at a point where I can and want to apply for new credit cards for SUBs and seasoning for piggybacking.

If I apply for new cards from issuers with which I currently have existing piggybacking CCs, then they may shift some CL from my existing piggybacking CCs in order to approve the new card.  This has been fairly common practice in my experience.

I do not want this to happen, because I don't want to have the CL reduced on any line where I have active piggybacking AUs because it would give them less than what they contracted for.

Does anyone know of any way to apply for a new card and ensure that the issuer won't do this?  I am not aware of any and thought I would ask.

(I do know if I act quickly I can usually reverse these kinds of decisions, but that seems like unpleasant hassle to me and I'd rather find a different way if one exists.)

[arebelspy]

I just had that happen to me with a Chase card (that I don't sell TLs on)--applied for a new one to get the SW companion pass for post-vaccine times and got pending, then a few days later (with no action on my part) an approved, but they shifted some credit around.

If I were selling lines on the card they moved from, I'd just wait until after a statement close/no one on it (tough if the bonus you're applying for is time sensitive, may need to shut down the card for a month), hit the min spend bonus on the new card and pay it off immediately, then shift the credit back.

[harrydogyo]

On my last Barclays approval they asked me when I called recon if I wanted to shift credit around and I said I didn't want to... they gave me $5k anyway without affecting other cards.

If you're worried and you apply for a card and don't get auto approved call the recon number (easy to google what it is for each issuer) after a day or so and explain why you want the card.  At that point a credit analyst may ask if you want to move credit which you can decline to do.  If that looks like your only option you can use that chance to withdraw the app as well.  Most issuers will give you a really small credit line if they want you but you're close to max in their underwriting guidelines. 

You might be able to find some data points on the provider you're applying with some google or reddit searching, especially if it's a well known issuer... whether they're inquiry sensitive, typical max credit lines etc.  Good luck!

[secondcor521]

I just had that happen to me with a Chase card (that I don't sell TLs on)--applied for a new one to get the SW companion pass for post-vaccine times and got pending, then a few days later (with no action on my part) an approved, but they shifted some credit around.

If I were selling lines on the card they moved from, I'd just wait until after a statement close/no one on it (tough if the bonus you're applying for is time sensitive, may need to shut down the card for a month), hit the min spend bonus on the new card and pay it off immediately, then shift the credit back.

Good thoughts, thank you.

I think I am getting lazy.  Because of the good markets and this side gig that some ARS guy got me into a few years back I'm less motivated to chase SUBs anyway.  And the $/effort ratio is probably better for me with piggybacking than SUBs.  Although I also need to think of the long term value of piggybacking cards - missing one $250 AU to get another card which might yield ten $250 AUs two to four years from now should be a good trade to make.  Ah, but then lazy thoughts return.

I may just do SUBs from issuers with whom I have zero piggybacking cards currently and that are good for seasoning.  This probably means the backwaters of issuers.  And I may also just get cards with no SUBs to season (the horrors!)  Oh well - I've been playing CC tricks for fourteen years (this includes games before piggybacking), so one can't be surprised at my present state of affairs.

[MoMoney88]

re: DISCOVER
I know others have had this happen where you attempt to add an AU and get this message online:

"You've reached the maximum number of requests to add Authorized Users at this time.  You'll be able to add your next Authorized User on 2/23/2021 if you have fewer than 5 Authorized Users at that time."

I try to add an AU after the date mentioned, and it then it says the same thing and shows me a new date a few months into the future.
This has happened multiple times.  UGH!

I am about to call Discover and see if they can resolve.

Has anyone else called Discover and worked this out?

[BikeFanatic]

I have 4 user on Discover now and I do not get the message ever. I always call it in though, as required by the Tradeline company
that I utilize. Dont really know if it is related to the online add.


Secondor what are SUB's?

[secondcor521]

Secondor what are SUB's?

Sign up bonuses, like getting $300 after spending $3,000 on the card in the first three months.

[ZagNation]

re: DISCOVER
I know others have had this happen where you attempt to add an AU and get this message online:

"You've reached the maximum number of requests to add Authorized Users at this time.  You'll be able to add your next Authorized User on 2/23/2021 if you have fewer than 5 Authorized Users at that time."

I try to add an AU after the date mentioned, and it then it says the same thing and shows me a new date a few months into the future.
This has happened multiple times.  UGH!

I am about to call Discover and see if they can resolve.

Has anyone else called Discover and worked this out?

I added 7 or 8 AU in 2020 and have missed out on 2 additional AUs this year. Old company has placed my Discover card on hold for this specific ongoing issue. Discover continues to push the date out for me even though I do not have any active AU so I suspect I (we) have arrived at the end of the AU hustle road with Discover and should be thankful our card(s) have not been shut down completely. If you happen to contact Discover would you let us know the result of your conversation?

[Car Jack]

While you let your Discover cool its jets, you can still milk the card with low balance forgiveness.  Go into your Amazon account and do a gift card reload for $1.99 on that discover card, once it's at a zero balance.  When the closing date comes, Discover will credit back that $1.99 but you continue to ecru reward points.  You could certainly put that $1.99 on the card in other ways, but it's pretty hard to get the exact number filling gas.  Amazon works especially well because you can reload as little as 50 cents and you get the full value to use for your regular purchases.  I do this with several cards when they're not getting any AUs assigned.

[MasterStache]

While you let your Discover cool its jets, you can still milk the card with low balance forgiveness.  Go into your Amazon account and do a gift card reload for $1.99 on that discover card, once it's at a zero balance.  When the closing date comes, Discover will credit back that $1.99 but you continue to ecru reward points.  You could certainly put that $1.99 on the card in other ways, but it's pretty hard to get the exact number filling gas.  Amazon works especially well because you can reload as little as 50 cents and you get the full value to use for your regular purchases.  I do this with several cards when they're not getting any AUs assigned.

+1
I actually put our $2.17 charge (taxes included) for Hulu on my Discover card. Set up automatic payment for 0.18 every month. Pretty cheap Hulu subscription.

[bangbang]

I just noticed that tradelines are selling on a famous internet auction site for some pretty good prices. What does the community think about this practice? Has anyone sold tradelines on famous internet auction sites? Is there a reason not to?

[solon]

That's... amazing.

Why don't I market my tradelines myself? Do we even need the tradeline companies anymore?

[secondcor521]

Is there a reason not to?

Vetting.  Privacy.  Billing.  Service.  Coordination of sales.

[arebelspy]

Do we even need the tradeline companies anymore?

Never did.

But I like the liability shield, the AU vetting, and that that they have a constant pipeline of AUs instead of me continually having to market.

Basically boils down to ease/convenience and reduced risk. But DIY is more profitable, as is the case with almost everything in life.

[solon]

Is there a reason not to?

Vetting.  Privacy.  Billing.  Service.  Coordination of sales.

None of that is difficult. The hardest part is the marketing, and if ebay can do that for us...

[secondcor521]

Is there a reason not to?

Vetting.  Privacy.  Billing.  Service.  Coordination of sales.

None of that is difficult. The hardest part is the marketing, and if ebay can do that for us...

It's not difficult, but it is time consuming and a hassle.  I've done private sales for a few AUs and sales through both Old Company and New Company.  As ARS says, private sales are more profitable but I can confirm - having done things both ways - that it is more hassle and time and work.

Personally I'm lazy so I just use one of the companies.  For someone with more energy or ambition, private sales or eBay sales may make more sense.

I also think you might be underestimating the value of vetting and the stress of having to do that yourself and the infrastructure to do it well.  But that's just my opinion.

[EliteZags]

Is there a reason not to?

Vetting.  Privacy.  Billing.  Service.  Coordination of sales.

None of that is difficult. The hardest part is the marketing, and if ebay can do that for us...

It's not difficult, but it is time consuming and a hassle.  I've done private sales for a few AUs and sales through both Old Company and New Company.  As ARS says, private sales are more profitable but I can confirm - having done things both ways - that it is more hassle and time and work.

Personally I'm lazy so I just use one of the companies.  For someone with more energy or ambition, private sales or eBay sales may make more sense.

I also think you might be underestimating the value of vetting and the stress of having to do that yourself and the infrastructure to do it well.  But that's just my opinion.

whats the typical payout increase from selling privately, 2x? 4x? 

[Michael in ABQ]

The old company pays out around $125-175 for a tradeline that they retail for $500-750.

Frankly, I assume anyone trying to do a private tradeline sale and willing to pay the same amount is probably someone that is likely to get your card flagged and shut down (i.e. claiming they're a U.S. citizen when they're not or using a fake address, etc.). I'll stick with letting an intermediary deal with all of that and just watch the money roll into my account after doing my five minutes of work every few months.

[secondcor521]

Is there a reason not to?

Vetting.  Privacy.  Billing.  Service.  Coordination of sales.

None of that is difficult. The hardest part is the marketing, and if ebay can do that for us...

It's not difficult, but it is time consuming and a hassle.  I've done private sales for a few AUs and sales through both Old Company and New Company.  As ARS says, private sales are more profitable but I can confirm - having done things both ways - that it is more hassle and time and work.

Personally I'm lazy so I just use one of the companies.  For someone with more energy or ambition, private sales or eBay sales may make more sense.

I also think you might be underestimating the value of vetting and the stress of having to do that yourself and the infrastructure to do it well.  But that's just my opinion.

whats the typical payout increase from selling privately, 2x? 4x?

Well, it's obviously up to each individual to decide how much they want to ask to be paid.  I've only done a handful, and I think I doubled what the TL companies paid me and then rounded up a bit, so maybe 225% to 250%.  For me, the hassle is the same regardless of the commission, so I tended to have a higher multiple on lower commission cards.  So if the TL company would have paid me $75, I'd offer it to an individual at $200, but if the TL company would have paid me $200, I'd offer it to an individual at $400.

Regarding MinABQ's comment, I disagree with the assumption but I do agree that the risk is definitely higher doing it this way.  I have only done private sales to people I have at least some connection with; I will not just do business with random people.  Anyone considering this should certainly do whatever vetting they think is adequate.  And there is a definite risk that the vetting that one thinks is sufficient may not be.  But I think there is room for private sales where the seller gets more and the buyer pays less.

Another thing to consider - at least for me - is that I typically sell slots on cards privately that are already on offer at the TL company, which means I need to coordinate between the two channels.  This loses some efficiency because you have to block and unblock a slot at the TL company and is obviously a bit more work because of that.

Obviously all of this is a judgment call, and anyone contemplating this should research it, understand what they're doing, and evaluate all of the risks and effort involved.  And obviously I and ARS and anyone else on this board are not liable for whatever you choose to do.

[ducky19]

I actually just had my first private sale to someone I didn't know personally. She was a friend of my niece who remembered me talking about it at Christmas one year. She put us in touch and we came to an agreement of $100 per $10k in credit. Obviously I know I could have charged a lot more, but I was happy to help out and I was able to use two cards that were not currently being utilized.

On another note, I recently hit the lifetime limit on one of my Barclay cards, so before shutting it down I moved as much available credit to another card that I was aging. You guys, I just made $1000 on 4 adds in 15 minutes!!! That blows the $1000/hr in the thread title out of the water, and is by far the most I've made in that amount of time. I realize I can't make that much every 15 minutes, but it sure is nice when you have clusters like that! That bumps me up to $4790 YTD, hoping to surpass last year's $11k.

[jeromedawg]

Anyone else have good 'leads' on getting into this? I got in touch with both companies A and B and both are currently at limit/capacity and aren't accepting any new sellers into their pools...

[arebelspy]

You guys, I just made $1000 on 4 adds in 15 minutes!!! That blows the $1000/hr in the thread title out of the water, and is by far the most I've made in that amount of time.

Hahah, the thread title still cracks me up years later. Make $1000/hour working from home in your pajamas sounds like such a scam!

Yet it's somehow true--approaching 5 years since I first posted about it, and I know Mustachians have made hundreds of thousands (probably approaching 1MM+) selling tradelines. That's a ridiculous side-gig.

I realize I can't make that much every 15 minutes, but it sure is nice when you have clusters like that! That bumps me up to $4790 YTD, hoping to surpass last year's $11k.

Nice! When people ask how much you can make, the answer is a pretty standard "well depends on how many cards you have, their age, limits, etc. but in general most people make a few hundred to a few thousand a year with some making low five figures." You're doing pretty awesome being in the latter category. ;)

Anyone else have good 'leads' on getting into this? I got in touch with both companies A and B and both are currently at limit/capacity and aren't accepting any new sellers into their pools...

Yeah, that's a bummer.

I'd personally let the cards age more while waiting for them to open enrollment. There are other companies out there, I (unfortunately) just haven't found any others I can personally recommend. And so I'd rather wait and then sell with a good company that vets AUs the right way and have the card longevity than risk it with a TL company that might get it shut down quicker. Longer term maximum value, basically (and less risk of participating in fraud).

However if the money is needed immediately and you want to take the risk, Google will certainly find you other companies (one is particularly popular as they're good at SEO and popular with with personal finance bloggers due to the referral fees they offer, I just can't recommend them).

[Michael in ABQ]

Finally sold a TL with the old company on my card that hit the 2-year mark a six months ago. $125 instead of $25. My Barclay's card that will pay out $175 hits the 2-year mark next week. Might make some decent money now. In another few months maybe they'll open up to newer cards too. I've got a couple more seasoning with decent limits.

[stopper24]

It would be interesting to hear. What are everyone's most profitable cards?

[Car Jack]

I had an interesting non-post.  BBVA card that I know for sure I added because I've got the card right here.  Sent pictures of that and my account balance and credit karma showing that an amount was on the card.  Call the CC co this morning and they don't have the person in their system as an AU.  So ok.  How'd I get a card with the AUs name on it then?  No matter, I know my mileage varies all over the map, so no worries there.

[katsiki]

Does anyone know if anything changed recently for AU's with Barclays?  I received a card for an AU recently even though I always decline card and noticed that it had a different number than the primary.  I might be mistaken as I have not requested a card in a loooong time but I thought BC issued AU's under the same #.  Thanks for any info.