Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking Part II: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig

[FrugalSaver]

How are y'all doing with other companies?  Which ones?

I finally got my second add in 14 months with the new company.

[charuhans]

Yesterday I was delivered a letter by FEDEX for one AU I had added some months back. Didn't realize that it was not for us when signed for it. Opened it and it was a notice from a car rental company stating that the AU has not returned a rental car which was due on 12/31/2017, yet. Gist was return the car immediately or the house would be raided by cops/DMV. Now one can imagine all sorts of crimes/gang affiliation etc, this individual might be associated with. And now, my address is associated with this person; worse I'm not renting so that the address is permanent as i don't intend to move for many years.

I'm pulling all my cards and not going to do this anymore. The risks/rewards ratio is just not feasible. I posted this just to share a datapoint.

[DavidAnnArbor]

I have received a couple of phone calls from debt collection agencies for a couple of authorized users.

[sol]

AU has not returned a rental car which was due on 12/31/2017, yet. Gist was return the car immediately or the house would be raided by cops/DMV.

If you get your front door kicked down in a predawn raid, be sure to come back here to post pictures of the damage.  After you make bail, I mean.

[grantmeaname]

I feel like you may not be taking the existential risk of rental cars sufficiently seriously, sol.

[Imustacheyouaquestion]

Gist was return the car immediately or the house would be raided by cops/DMV.

If you get your front door kicked down in a predawn raid, be sure to come back here to post pictures of the damage.  After you make bail, I mean.

Highly doubt the police get involved in recovering rental cars. Otherwise, why would repo companies exist?

A guy who works at Enterprise told me people fail to return rental cars frequently. They basically stake out the last known address or place of employment, wait until someone leaves the car parked on the street or off private property, and then drive it away with a spare key.

[charuhans]

AU has not returned a rental car which was due on 12/31/2017, yet. Gist was return the car immediately or the house would be raided by cops/DMV.

If you get your front door kicked down in a predawn raid, be sure to come back here to post pictures of the damage.  After you make bail, I mean.

I can understand your frustration for not getting any adds over the years.

[charuhans]

Gist was return the car immediately or the house would be raided by cops/DMV.

If you get your front door kicked down in a predawn raid, be sure to come back here to post pictures of the damage.  After you make bail, I mean.

Highly doubt the police get involved in recovering rental cars. Otherwise, why would repo companies exist?

A guy who works at Enterprise told me people fail to return rental cars frequently. They basically stake out the last known address or place of employment, wait until someone leaves the car parked on the street or off private property, and then drive it away with a spare key.

Yes, I know it's unlikely but everyone has their comfort level with things and I think mine is now breached. The stress is not worth the couple of thousand I made last year.

[arebelspy]

Yeah, that is a weird one.

Naturally any false arrest settlement would put you pretty much instantly FI, but it sure isn't worth it.

I have a mailbox service (www.travelingmailbox.com) since I have no permanent address, and I think that's one big reason why I never get mail for former AUs (they are not authorized to receive mail for those people, just myself and my wife). I've never got a phone call either (I don't know how people's phones are attached to their address anyways, unless it's a landline), and this FedEx package similarly wouldn't happen.

I'd suggest anyone worried about something like this use a mail service for any credit card stuff related to AUs (and write off the expense, of course).

[katsiki]

Agreed!  I think it is $47/yr for my po box.  Planning to deduct it this tax time.

[charuhans]

Yeah, that is a weird one.

Naturally any false arrest settlement would put you pretty much instantly FI, but it sure isn't worth it.

I have a mailbox service (www.travelingmailbox.com) since I have no permanent address, and I think that's one big reason why I never get mail for former AUs (they are not authorized to receive mail for those people, just myself and my wife). I've never got a phone call either (I don't know how people's phones are attached to their address anyways, unless it's a landline), and this FedEx package similarly wouldn't happen.

I'd suggest anyone worried about something like this use a mail service for any credit card stuff related to AUs (and write off the expense, of course).

How does this work with Banking? I thought that banks need to have a physical address on file and can't accept a PO Box #.

[arebelspy]

How does this work with Banking? I thought that banks need to have a physical address on file and can't accept a PO Box #.

I've never had an issue.

It isn't a "PO box" per se. Either way, it's the address on all my credit cards, bank accounts, etc. They've never had a problem with it. (It has been an issue for being a "physical address" for things that want proof of my residence vis-a-vis a utility bill, but that's another issue.)

It's probably whatever shows up on AU's reports, when something does, but like I said, it has acted as a filter for me getting AU mail.

[charuhans]

Yeah, that is a weird one.

Naturally any false arrest settlement would put you pretty much instantly FI, but it sure isn't worth it.

I have a mailbox service (www.travelingmailbox.com) since I have no permanent address, and I think that's one big reason why I never get mail for former AUs (they are not authorized to receive mail for those people, just myself and my wife). I've never got a phone call either (I don't know how people's phones are attached to their address anyways, unless it's a landline), and this FedEx package similarly wouldn't happen.

I'd suggest anyone worried about something like this use a mail service for any credit card stuff related to AUs (and write off the expense, of course).

How does this work with Banking? I thought that banks need to have a physical address on file and can't accept a PO Box #.

Ok just browsed the website and they provide actual physical addresses to use as yours.

[kudy]

I've never got a phone call either (I don't know how people's phones are attached to their address anyways, unless it's a landline)...

I only ever get calls for AUs I add to my capital one card. In order to add an AU online for capital one, you are required to enter a phone number. I was instructed by the company to put my number in the box. It would probably be smarter of me to ignore their instructions and put a fake number. I tell anyone who calls for an AU that I don't recognize the name and they have the wrong number, and that seems to clear it up after a few weeks.

[Car Jack]

Ok, some first hand endorsement of Joe's background checks on TL companies.

With very, very few AUs from the new company, I decided to take a shot at the company who made a thread here.  (if the thread is gone...oh well).  I put a BoA card on it which has been resting forever, and I could care less if it's closed.  Almost immediately, 2 AUs.  Wow....this is half of what I got for 2017 with the "new" company.  Seemed great.  I added the AUs no problem then got the cards in the mail.

Then the email.  One of the AUs used a stolen credit card to pay for the tradeline, remove the AU and watch my cc statements.  Wonderful.  So I closed my account with them.  On the plus side, they did pay the AU that was ok.....and they pay more than the new company. 

So I'll just stick with companies that have been checked out.  Not worth being all stressed out that something could be messed up.

[arebelspy]

Ok, some first hand endorsement of Joe's background checks on TL companies.

With very, very few AUs from the new company, I decided to take a shot at the company who made a thread here.  (if the thread is gone...oh well).  I put a BoA card on it which has been resting forever, and I could care less if it's closed.  Almost immediately, 2 AUs.  Wow....this is half of what I got for 2017 with the "new" company.  Seemed great.  I added the AUs no problem then got the cards in the mail.

Then the email.  One of the AUs used a stolen credit card to pay for the tradeline, remove the AU and watch my cc statements.  Wonderful.  So I closed my account with them.  On the plus side, they did pay the AU that was ok.....and they pay more than the new company. 

So I'll just stick with companies that have been checked out.  Not worth being all stressed out that something could be messed up.

Really unfortunate to hear that.

The guys running that company are good guys, but just way too focused on profit and speed and growth over doing things right. I've spent hours talking with them, but unfortunately haven't been successful, obviously, in convincing them to change.

There's no need to in their mind, I suppose, when there are people willing to refer cardholders to them for cash referral fees, and don't care if the cardholders get burned. I think in the long run, it's bad business, and will bite them, but they'll make money in the short run.

(And I'll disclose here, once again, that I do get referral fees from the companies I recommend, but that's not my reason for recommending them, and I'm happy to refer someone and they don't have to use my referral information. Further, there are multiple companies that do referral programs that I could make a lot more money on, but I won't recommend, due to their business practices. The Mustachian community is more important to me than a quick buck.)

Thanks for letting us know, Car Jack. More sharing and information is good.

It's pretty telling that it's been a year and a half of doing this, with Mustachians having hundreds and hundreds of sales, with very few actual issues, but when people try new companies, there are issues almost immediately.

At the end of the day--as I've said before--I'd rather get just a small handful of adds from a good company, and still make pretty easy side gig money (even if not as high as I'd like) than get lots of adds from a bad company and risk the myriad of things that come with that (especially being complicit in fraud).

[nitsuj1225]

I would also like to throw my 2 cents out there that I am in the same boat as many with the new company that I haven't been paid for my 2 AU's that were added the end of the October.  I reached out to them via email and haven't heard back of an expected payment yet.  Disappointing to say the least.  With that said, I'm still getting orders with the old company which has picked up the last few months.

[arebelspy]

If you have issues with New Company, PM me so I can help get it resolved.

[monarda]

Got my tax form from them yesterday.

Will PM you regarding late payment.

[ducky19]

Also received my tax documents yesterday.

[katsiki]

Was the tax form sent by email on listed somewhere on their portal?

thanks in advance

[charuhans]

Got my 1099 in the mail yesterday. It must have been sent a few days back since it was rerouted by the PO to my new address; the company had my old address.

[sol]

Was the tax form sent by email on listed somewhere on their portal?

Millenials are funny!

Snail mail, friend.  The tax forms were printed out on paper and then stuffed into an envelope that are hand-delivered to your home address.  It's like a bespoke document handling services for anti-digital hipsters who really appreciate the tactile immediacy of tearing open sealed envelopes like your great-grandparents used to do. 

It's new.  You probably haven't heard of it yet.

[katsiki]

Thanks sol.  I missed your wit.  :)

The other company emails it so I assumed....  Ya know, what happens when you do that.

[hgjjgkj]

Anyone ever got an email from the new place saying a AU failed to post? I know I added them on time. Seems odd and wonder what it means

[CanuckExpat]

The 1099 is mailed? I know Sol was being sarcastic, but I really wouldn't even have thought to look for it there.

Yet another reason to use a travelling mailbox like service for selling Tradelines. You'll get an email notification when the 1099 shows up, and you can have mailbox company scan the 1099 so that it becomes electronic.

So the tradeline company (or whoever handles their payroll) is almost certainly generating the 1099 electronically, then they print and mail a physical copy, which I have a third party mailbox service receive, open, and scan, so that I can have an electronic copy again... there must be a way to cut out the middle man..

In other news, the old recommendation sends you the 1099 electronically...

[secondcor521]

Thanks sol.  I missed your wit.  :)

The other company emails it so I assumed....  Ya know, what happens when you do that.

I received my 1099 by US Mail yesterday.

I poked around on the portal and couldn't find it there, so I think you'll have to use the paper copy.

[secondcor521]

Anyone ever got an email from the new place saying a AU failed to post? I know I added them on time. Seems odd and wonder what it means

No, but it means that your CL did not show up on the AU's credit report.

Why?  Well, there was a mistake somewhere.  Possible reasons off the top of my head:

1.  You misspelled their name, SSN, DOB, or address such that the credit bureaus did not match it up to the AU's credit report.  Credit bureaus can handle small differences, but large differences or one digit off on SSN or DOB are problematic.

2.  You added them to the wrong card, and that card doesn't report AUs (never heard of this, but it's possible) or the card is an AMEX which doesn't report AU opening dates correctly.

3.  You didn't have an outstanding balance on the card when it reported to the credit bureau, so they didn't report the AU.

4.  The credit card company screwed up somehow.

5.  The credit bureau company screwed up somehow

6.  The AU company screwed up somehow.

[BikeFanatic]

I have had non posting for a Citibank card, sometimes they fail to post correctly.

[charuhans]

I have a couple which did not post. The company loaded the latest Credit Report of the AU for me to view so that I can verify that it didn't post. One was strange, my address posted on the AU's credit report but the card credit line didn't post.

[meatgrinder]

I have had non posting for a Citibank card, sometimes they fail to post correctly.

Citi doesn't request the AU's SSN when adding so I assume they would be more likely to post incorrectly.

[DavidAnnArbor]

I have had non posting for a Citibank card, sometimes they fail to post correctly.

Citi doesn't request the AU's SSN when adding so I assume they would be more likely to post incorrectly.

For Citi you're much better off calling in to add the A.U. so that the social security is added. Doing it online in which the social security is not required could be problematic and cause the AU new tradeline not to post to the credit report.

[.22guy]

I think I'll be bowing out of this.  I've made a few bucks, but I can't shake the feeling that both my Barclay cards are going to get shutdown if I don't quit.  Plus the new company kinda sucks to deal with.  I'll see if I can get my last two sales commissions out of them and then I'm out.

That stuff and the poster above talking about menacing communications from a rental car company from something an AU did....

Good luck all......

[Padonak]

I have had non posting for a Citibank card, sometimes they fail to post correctly.

Citi doesn't request the AU's SSN when adding so I assume they would be more likely to post incorrectly.

For Citi you're much better off calling in to add the A.U. so that the social security is added. Doing it online in which the social security is not required could be problematic and cause the AU new tradeline not to post to the credit report.

I always call, repeat all the details and make sure they got them correctly. Still, at least two AUs didn't post properly and I didn't get paid. Dealing with Citi is a pain in the ass.

[boarder42]

I think I'll be bowing out of this.  I've made a few bucks, but I can't shake the feeling that both my Barclay cards are going to get shutdown if I don't quit.  Plus the new company kinda sucks to deal with.  I'll see if I can get my last two sales commissions out of them and then I'm out.

That stuff and the poster above talking about menacing communications from a rental car company from something an AU did....

Good luck all......

yes that is my biggest gripe too.  the clearly dont have a shortage of cards to put users on or their customer care for us would be much higher its quite dissappointing.

[CanuckExpat]

Dealing with Citi is a pain in the ass.

This is the conclusion I reached. We no longer have any Citi cards listed for sale, mainly for unrelated reasons, but not having to deal with them is a major plus.

[sol]

It's tax time.  Is everyone planning to file a schedule C (business profit and loss) and a schedule SE (self employment taxes) for all of their tradeline sales?

Is there any way to avoid doing so?  Seems like a giant pain for everyone, for such a tiny amount of money.

[PizzaSteve]

I hope everyone is doing well.  A quick question, as I scanned the thread but didnt see all 42 pages and see whether the issues below have been discussed.  I know it is a legal practice but one web site i visited on the topic posted the following quote.  Are there thread pages where this is discussed?

 The problem with tradeline renting from strangers is that if you partake in the practice you could arguably be guilty of committing bank fraud because you are knowingly misrepresenting your credit history. Additionally, you could also potentially be guilty of mail fraud if you used the U.S. postal service to facilitate the tradeline renting or wire fraud if you used the telephone or email.

I think this is saying that the `renters' may be at risk.  Are the loaners free to do as they wish? I am assuming yes, because you are only adding the authorized user (perfectly fine) and the credit scoring system is the one 'interpreting that as good credit', which is not the loaners doing....correct?

[grantmeaname]

Isn't this unethical?

I guess that depends on you.  When you add an authorized user, it usually asks what your relationship to the person is, and you choose: Spouse, or Other (some CCs have "Spouse, Child, Other" and similar options..., but there's always an "Other" choice from what I've seen).  I, obviously, choose other. 

Adding them, or removing them, doesn't require lying, or doing anything illegal.  You add someone online, and then call to remove them.  I actually did this the other day, I called and said "I have two authorized users on my account I'd like to remove."  The customer service lady said no problem, had me verify their names, she confirmed they were removed, I said thanks, have a good day, that was it.

It does potentially violate the credit card company's terms of service, which means they (as a recourse for that violation) can shut down your card. Okay.  I obviously don't have a problem with it.

Our credit card system in the U.S. is unique. The credit card companies make billions each year on people paying interest.  I'm not too worried about them.

One more perspective--as Meadow Lark said in her journal when someone asked about the ethical implications:
"I don't see it as fraud.  It's not illegal. I'm not saying the AU is my kid or my husband - there is no lying.  There are a lot of different ethical frameworks people have.  Within my framework, this is ethical.  It's fine if we disagree.  I believe there is nothing wrong with helping other people improve their credit.  I believe there is nothing wrong with profiting from a loop hole in a financial system that was designed to foster increased income inequality.  I could go on and on, but I don't want to bore you."

If you feel it's unethical, that's fine.  It's definitely not worth doing anything you feel is unethical simply for money.  Steer clear, in that case. :)

[secondcor521]

It's tax time.  Is everyone planning to file a schedule C (business profit and loss) and a schedule SE (self employment taxes) for all of their tradeline sales?

Is there any way to avoid doing so?  Seems like a giant pain for everyone, for such a tiny amount of money.

Possibly.  If you read the last sentence of the instructions for box 7 on Form 1099-MISC, it says you can, under certain criteria, report the income as other income on line 21 of Form 1040.

It is up to you to determine if your facts and circumstances meet those criteria.

[DavidAnnArbor]

It's tax time.  Is everyone planning to file a schedule C (business profit and loss) and a schedule SE (self employment taxes) for all of their tradeline sales?

Is there any way to avoid doing so?  Seems like a giant pain for everyone, for such a tiny amount of money.

Possibly.  If you read the last sentence of the instructions for box 7 on Form 1099-MISC, it says you can, under certain criteria, report the income as other income on line 21 of Form 1040.

It is up to you to determine if your facts and circumstances meet those criteria.

I'm not sure what the exact dollar number is but I think if you make less than $400 you don't have to file a schedule c.

[tj]

It's tax time.  Is everyone planning to file a schedule C (business profit and loss) and a schedule SE (self employment taxes) for all of their tradeline sales?

Is there any way to avoid doing so?  Seems like a giant pain for everyone, for such a tiny amount of money.

Earn $599 or less and hope they don't send a 1099?

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/am-i-required-to-file-a-form-1099-or-other-information-return

[Joel]

Did anyone who received less than $600 in sales receive a 1099?

I received $225 and haven't yet received a 1099, but I moved during the year and did not update my address on file with the company as I quit selling tradelines in October after 6 months of no sales.

[arebelspy]

I can confirm anyone who received under $600 in income was not issued a 1099.

[grantmeaname]

It's tax time.  Is everyone planning to file a schedule C (business profit and loss) and a schedule SE (self employment taxes) for all of their tradeline sales?

Is there any way to avoid doing so?  Seems like a giant pain for everyone, for such a tiny amount of money.

Earn $599 or less and hope they don't send a 1099?

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/am-i-required-to-file-a-form-1099-or-other-information-return

That’s called “tax evasion” and it’s a crime.

[arebelspy]

Right, you still need to declare the income, I was just stating that you will not receive a 1099 if the income was under $600. It's up to you to report the amount of income (easy if it was all post mid-March when the portal was activated, otherwise you'll need to look at your bank statements).

[merula]

It's tax time.  Is everyone planning to file a schedule C (business profit and loss) and a schedule SE (self employment taxes) for all of their tradeline sales?

Is there any way to avoid doing so?  Seems like a giant pain for everyone, for such a tiny amount of money.

I put it under Line 21 last year and put the description as "[Old Company] Consulting". I figured Line 21 made sense as "temporary", and for such a small amount ($400) it seemed reasonable.

I didn't get any sales with the New Company, but I did have a sale paid in January with the Old Company and got an emailed 1099 for $125. I'm planning to do Line 21 again this year.

[missundecided]

If I had a sale in Oct but didn't get paid until Jan, is that 2017 or 2018 income?

[frugalnacho]

Right, you still need to declare the income, I was just stating that you will not receive a 1099 if the income was under $600. It's up to you to report the amount of income (easy if it was all post mid-March when the portal was activated, otherwise you'll need to look at your bank statements).

Legally and ethically you are required to report the income. But just for clarification, no 1099 means it was not reported to the IRS and the only way the IRS would know is if you self reported the income?  Or has it been reported to the IRS?

[arebelspy]

No 1099 = nothing reported, AFAIK.

As you said though, this remains the case:

Legally and ethically you are required to report the income.