mustachian cars - 50mpg for $3500 or under

[Kevin Aster Tin Obin]

Whenever I see new cars that look enticing with all their MPG and hybrid technology, I run the numbers vs whats in my driveway and I win every-time.

I have a 1995 Honda Civic VX.  Its the high-MPG version that uses lean-burn technology to squeak out 22:1 air the fuel ratio to burn less gas.  It was EPA rated at 50mpg when it came out in 1992, but the 1996 emission regulations forded the VX model to end production in 1995. 

So I own 2 of these cars, bought them at  100k /70k miles , now have 170K/135K miles on each, and still get 43 to 45 mpg with mixed city/highway driving.  The costs per mile can't be beat with anything new out there..  Best 2-tank average is 65 MPG going 55 mph on interstates for 1000 miles..  Mint shows repairs and maintenance have averaged $50/mo for each car.  Cost breakdown is:

$3500 for used, rust-free, Civic VX.
8.9 cents/mile fuel (42 mpg city, $3.75/gal)
My first VX is going on 5 years, 70,000 miles driven.
Total cost per mile = 18 cents / mile

What other car can I buy for 5 year cost of 18 cents/mile?  (And must be reliable / respectable enough for SO to drive to work everyday)

And before these cars, it was VW diesel rabbits.  They get near 50mpg also, just a little stinkier in their 1982 bodies..

[Jack]

For Hondas, there was the 1989-1991 CRX HF, 1992-1995 Civic VX hatch, 1996?-1999? Civic HX coupe, 1999-2006 Insight (70+ MPG!). They're probably all available for less than $3500 now, maybe even the Insight.

For VWs, why stop at 1982? They kept improving up until about 2006. (By the way, between the MK4 Golf, Jetta and New Beetle, the Jetta is actually the most aerodynamic, so prefer that unless you want a hatch). You could probably find a 1999-2003 model for sub-$3500 if you look hard enough.

There was also the Geo Metro XFi (and maybe a Suzuki), which probably blows everything else out of the water on frugality (but sucks in every other possible way).

[TreeTired]

I have a 1995 Honda Civic VX.  Its the high-MPG version that uses lean-burn technology to squeak out 22:1 air the fuel ratio to burn less gas. It was EPA rated at 50mpg when it came out in 1992, but the 1996 emission regulations forded the VX model to end production in 1995.

wow! didn't know that... very interesting.  I don't think there are any gas powered cars rated even close to 50 mpg today, 12 yrs later.

[cbr shadow]

I have a 2002 Honda Insight that I bought with 75k miles for $4500.  I've had it for a year now and averaged 62mpg with it.  Out on open highway I can go 55mph and average 70mpg if I try hard.  It's fun and turns driving into a bit of a game.
Replacing the battery is about $2200 for a new one which should last 10 years.  It's strong so far, but I'm sure the time will come where I need to drop the dough.
Didn't know about the Civic VX, but that sounds like a very mustachian car.

[Jack]

wow! didn't know that... very interesting.  I don't think there are any gas powered cars rated even close to 50 mpg today, 12 yrs later.

That's what happens when you have emissions standards, customer luxury-features expectations, and (most importantly) safety standards drastically increasing between then and now. The Civic VX weighed just over 2000 lbs, whereas the lightest current-generation Civic weighs almost 600 lbs more. The (first gen) Honda Insight, by the way, weighted about the same as the Honda CRX, but to get it that light Honda had to make it out of aluminum, like the NSX supercar.

[Exflyboy]

Lean burn technology is very clever. In fact piston engined pilots who know what they are doing (very few) make use of this on Fuel Injected airplanes. Operating the engine lean of peak exhaust gas temperature is the most efficient point and leaning to that point is a lot less stress on the valves and cylinders.

In fact this mode of operation was first invented in WW2, as it was the only way the bombers could make it across the Atlantic.. and later the Pacific.

I used to see at least 10% improvement in Mpg in my airplane operating it this way.

Frank

[ketchup]

There was also the Geo Metro XFi (and maybe a Suzuki), which probably blows everything else out of the water on frugality (but sucks in every other possible way).

Hey now.  My '99 Metro is awesome.  I only average 47MPG at the moment, but I'm still fixing/refreshing some things on it.  It's not only awesome frugally-speaking, but very simple mechanically and easy to work on without all the extra BS that bigger cars need (power steering, AC, etc).

[Chranstronaut]

I have a 2002 Honda Insight that I bought with 75k miles for $4500.  I've had it for a year now and averaged 62mpg with it.  Out on open highway I can go 55mph and average 70mpg if I try hard.  It's fun and turns driving into a bit of a game.
Replacing the battery is about $2200 for a new one which should last 10 years.  It's strong so far, but I'm sure the time will come where I need to drop the dough.
Didn't know about the Civic VX, but that sounds like a very mustachian car.

cbr shadow, did you replace your battery?  My SO has a 2001 Insight he bought used and is trying to decide if it's worth the cost.  His battery assist is basically dead and he STILL gets 70mpg average using hyper-miling techniques.  He tried buying refurbished cells online, cycling the charges and replacing them himself.  He's going to try cycling the original cells first, but it might come time for an actual replacement.

+1 the 90's Geo Metro if only because of the community of people modifying them.  Hyper milers can get pretty crazy-- you have my respect.

[apfroggy0408]

Been thinking about one of these cars in the very near future as my jeep isn't quite the mustachian vehicle of choice...

[cbr shadow]

I have a 2002 Honda Insight that I bought with 75k miles for $4500.  I've had it for a year now and averaged 62mpg with it.  Out on open highway I can go 55mph and average 70mpg if I try hard.  It's fun and turns driving into a bit of a game.
Replacing the battery is about $2200 for a new one which should last 10 years.  It's strong so far, but I'm sure the time will come where I need to drop the dough.
Didn't know about the Civic VX, but that sounds like a very mustachian car.

cbr shadow, did you replace your battery?  My SO has a 2001 Insight he bought used and is trying to decide if it's worth the cost.  His battery assist is basically dead and he STILL gets 70mpg average using hyper-miling techniques.  He tried buying refurbished cells online, cycling the charges and replacing them himself.  He's going to try cycling the original cells first, but it might come time for an actual replacement.

Chranstache,
If your husband can stand the lower power output of the Insight when it doesn't have a battery, I'd suggest just driving it that way forever. To switch to "no battery mode" you remove the back cover, disconnect 2 connectors and flip a switch.  I've helped a friend do this and there are youtube videos on how to do it.  10 minutes tops.
He wont see a benefit in MPG's by adding a new battery.  It'll feel much better to drive, better acceleration etc, but wont increase gas mileage.  It depends a lot on how he drives but on an Insight the main idea is that they put a little tiny lean burn engine that cruises really efficiently, but has weak acceleration.  The battery and electric motor just make the acceleration acceptable so that you can get to that lean burn range.

If you husband is replacing cells himself, then I would guess all of the above is stuff you guys already know though.  The first generation Insight is such a great car!

[HairyUpperLip]

As a Honda fan, I am very jealous that you have 2 VX hatchbacks.

Please respect and treasure them.

[forummm]

What other car can I buy for 5 year cost of 18 cents/mile?  (And must be reliable / respectable enough for SO to drive to work everyday)

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/nissan-leaf-almost-paying-me-to-drive-it/

The cost per mile depends on how much you drive it, but with the tax credits and manufacturer incentives, the electric cars (and the Leaf in particular) could be the cheapest thing around. You could lease a Leaf for $199/mo and have no maintenance costs. In Georgia, there's a $5k tax credit that makes the 3 year lease cost $60/mo. And I'm paying under $10/mo for electricity to charge it. If you add in the extra cost of insurance (for me $30/mo), you're driving a brand new car with no emissions for $100/mo. If you drive 1000 miles that's 10 cents per mile. At 1 cent per mile for electricity, the energy costs about as much as the tires.

I actually bought mine and I'm thinking about buying another. Since Nissan kicked in $3.5k and 0% financing for 6 years, on top of the $7.5k federal and $5k GA credits, I paid a net $13.5k for it. With the low cost of energy (1 cent per mile with my EV rate plan), and almost no maintenance required (literally just minor things like cabin air filters, brake fluid, etc), and warranties (5 year for EV system, 8 year for battery), it's very cheap to own. The downsides: 1) the battery will give you about 100 miles (or 75+ if you drive inefficiently and use the A/C or heater), 2) charging is slower than filling a gas tank, 3) the battery has less capacity over time (estimated to drop in half by 10 years, but warrantied to retain at least 70% capacity after 5 years). You can buy a new battery, and can even get aftermarket add-on batteries to extend the range (voids the warranty). But that costs about $5k in current prices (probably $2-3k by the time you need a new battery, given how the prices are dropping).

Charging from a standard household outlet adds 5 miles of range per hour. Charging from a 240V outlet add up to 30 miles of range per hour. Charging at a DC fast charging station adds up to 80 miles of range in 30 minutes.

[Jack]

There was also the Geo Metro XFi (and maybe a Suzuki), which probably blows everything else out of the water on frugality (but sucks in every other possible way).

Hey now.  My '99 Metro is awesome.  I only average 47MPG at the moment, but I'm still fixing/refreshing some things on it.  It's not only awesome frugally-speaking, but very simple mechanically and easy to work on without all the extra BS that bigger cars need (power steering, AC, etc).

Okay, okay, sorry. I'll admit that being simple to fix is another good thing about the Metro.

However, I still feel the need to point out that CRXs and Civic VXs are similarly mechanically simple, but have the distinct advantage of being made by Honda instead of GM...

(They're also much more stylish than the Metro, but that's just my opinion)

[greaper007]

Lean burn technology is very clever. In fact piston engined pilots who know what they are doing (very few) make use of this on Fuel Injected airplanes. Operating the engine lean of peak exhaust gas temperature is the most efficient point and leaning to that point is a lot less stress on the valves and cylinders.

In fact this mode of operation was first invented in WW2, as it was the only way the bombers could make it across the Atlantic.. and later the Pacific.

I used to see at least 10% improvement in Mpg in my airplane operating it this way.

Frank

Nah, you just pull the mixture out until the engine stops running, then give it a little bump to get it running again.     I was a flight instructor down in Florida and flew all over the state time building.    This worked for me all the time without the need for expensive instrumentation.

Though, one time after flying like this for a couple hours I lost an engine while following all kinds of crazy instructions from ATC and dodging thunderstorms while flying through Miami's Class B airspace.   I freaked out at first and then remembered that the engine was leaned way back.    Pushed the mixture forward and made it down to Key West without any other problems.

[HairyUpperLip]

There was also the Geo Metro XFi (and maybe a Suzuki), which probably blows everything else out of the water on frugality (but sucks in every other possible way).

Hey now.  My '99 Metro is awesome.  I only average 47MPG at the moment, but I'm still fixing/refreshing some things on it.  It's not only awesome frugally-speaking, but very simple mechanically and easy to work on without all the extra BS that bigger cars need (power steering, AC, etc).

Okay, okay, sorry. I'll admit that being simple to fix is another good thing about the Metro.

However, I still feel the need to point out that CRXs and Civic VXs are similarly mechanically simple, but have the distinct advantage of being made by Honda instead of GM...

(They're also much more stylish than the Metro, but that's just my opinion)

More stylish and maybe even an "investment" too.

Any time a clean VX pops up around here it's a $4500+ asking price. I've seen one go for over $6k because it was clean and all stock.

That being said, finding 2 with low mileage and no rust is like having Jesus come down to Earth and personally bless you. Lucky guy. I'm jealous as hell. :)

[ketchup]

There was also the Geo Metro XFi (and maybe a Suzuki), which probably blows everything else out of the water on frugality (but sucks in every other possible way).

Hey now.  My '99 Metro is awesome.  I only average 47MPG at the moment, but I'm still fixing/refreshing some things on it.  It's not only awesome frugally-speaking, but very simple mechanically and easy to work on without all the extra BS that bigger cars need (power steering, AC, etc).

Okay, okay, sorry. I'll admit that being simple to fix is another good thing about the Metro.

However, I still feel the need to point out that CRXs and Civic VXs are similarly mechanically simple, but have the distinct advantage of being made by Honda instead of GM...

(They're also much more stylish than the Metro, but that's just my opinion)

They were far more Suzuki than GM and if you got an '89 or older (or the convertible), it was built in Japan by Suzuki.  The later ones were built in Canada by a joint venture between Suzuki and GM.  GM didn't like the Metro because it wasn't profitable.

[Kevin Aster Tin Obin]

That being said, finding 2 with low mileage and no rust is like having Jesus come down to Earth and personally bless you. Lucky guy. I'm jealous as hell. :)

Yea I searched far and wide to find clean VX's.  Bought one across the country and drove it 2500 miles home.. cost about $200 in gas ;)  no rust, all stock.  I get asked regularly if I want to sell it.

[thurston howell iv]

A clean VX?  Wow!  I have a 97 Civic HX I purchased with 150k on the clock. Has 230k and still chugging along....
Had an 88 Festiva that got close to 50mpg and my first car was the 82 Diesel Rabbit you mentioned... (Gutless as hell but great on fuel)

I've been looking for a VX but they're as rare as hens teeth... You really lucked out!

BTW, there's a few sites online that list some of the top contenders... VX, HX, insight, metro, firefly, sprint

Now, I'm waiting for the Elio to come out:  84mpg & $6800 cost
http://www.eliomotors.com/

[luigi49]

Whenever I see new cars that look enticing with all their MPG and hybrid technology, I run the numbers vs whats in my driveway and I win every-time.

I have a 1995 Honda Civic VX.  Its the high-MPG version that uses lean-burn technology to squeak out 22:1 air the fuel ratio to burn less gas.  It was EPA rated at 50mpg when it came out in 1992, but the 1996 emission regulations forded the VX model to end production in 1995. 

So I own 2 of these cars, bought them at  100k /70k miles , now have 170K/135K miles on each, and still get 43 to 45 mpg with mixed city/highway driving.  The costs per mile can't be beat with anything new out there..  Best 2-tank average is 65 MPG going 55 mph on interstates for 1000 miles..  Mint shows repairs and maintenance have averaged $50/mo for each car.  Cost breakdown is:

$3500 for used, rust-free, Civic VX.
8.9 cents/mile fuel (42 mpg city, $3.75/gal)
My first VX is going on 5 years, 70,000 miles driven.
Total cost per mile = 18 cents / mile

What other car can I buy for 5 year cost of 18 cents/mile?  (And must be reliable / respectable enough for SO to drive to work everyday)

And before these cars, it was VW diesel rabbits.  They get near 50mpg also, just a little stinkier in their 1982 bodies..

Someone told me those are highly sought and somewhat collectible. 

[okashira]

Whenever I see new cars that look enticing with all their MPG and hybrid technology, I run the numbers vs whats in my driveway and I win every-time.

I have a 1995 Honda Civic VX.  Its the high-MPG version that uses lean-burn technology to squeak out 22:1 air the fuel ratio to burn less gas.  It was EPA rated at 50mpg when it came out in 1992, but the 1996 emission regulations forded the VX model to end production in 1995. 

So I own 2 of these cars, bought them at  100k /70k miles , now have 170K/135K miles on each, and still get 43 to 45 mpg with mixed city/highway driving.  The costs per mile can't be beat with anything new out there..  Best 2-tank average is 65 MPG going 55 mph on interstates for 1000 miles..  Mint shows repairs and maintenance have averaged $50/mo for each car.  Cost breakdown is:

$3500 for used, rust-free, Civic VX.
8.9 cents/mile fuel (42 mpg city, $3.75/gal)
My first VX is going on 5 years, 70,000 miles driven.
Total cost per mile = 18 cents / mile

What other car can I buy for 5 year cost of 18 cents/mile?  (And must be reliable / respectable enough for SO to drive to work everyday)

And before these cars, it was VW diesel rabbits.  They get near 50mpg also, just a little stinkier in their 1982 bodies..

Someone told me those are highly sought and somewhat collectible.

They are. My boss has been looking for one for years. (collects cars...)

[MikeBear]

A clean VX?  Wow!  I have a 97 Civic HX I purchased with 150k on the clock. Has 230k and still chugging along....
Had an 88 Festiva that got close to 50mpg and my first car was the 82 Diesel Rabbit you mentioned... (Gutless as hell but great on fuel)

I've been looking for a VX but they're as rare as hens teeth... You really lucked out!

BTW, there's a few sites online that list some of the top contenders... VX, HX, insight, metro, firefly, sprint

Now, I'm waiting for the Elio to come out:  84mpg & $6800 cost
http://www.eliomotors.com/

You'll need a motorcycle endorsement to drive the Elio, as anything under 4 wheels is licensed as a motorcycle.

[Joggernot]

Now, I'm waiting for the Elio to come out:  84mpg & $6800 cost
http://www.eliomotors.com/

You'll need a motorcycle endorsement to drive the Elio, as anything under 4 wheels is licensed as a motorcycle.

The Elio will drive just like a car; no similarity with a m/c.  Will take about 15 minutes to learn the controls, and then take the driving test.  Won't be a problem for most people.  May have to ask you neighbor with the m/c to drive it down for the test, so you don't get a ticket on the way to take the test.

[apfroggy0408]

omg i'm in love

[enigmaT120]

I'm getting too impatient for an Elio, so I'm looking into first generation Insights.  Though I do have a mc endorsement, if it's true that they are needed in Oregon.  Helmets won't be.  I'm almost skeptical that Elios will be made.  I keep getting ads from them, but  not real progress reports.  I hope they make a go of it though. 

[MikeBear]

Go for the older Insight. IMO, Elio will never make it for long, even if they actually make it to market.

The PULSE 2 wheel (and 2 more outrigger style) motorcycle car was built in Owosso, Michigan for 8 years in the '80's, and they only made around 350 total. I saw one once or twice back in the day, and have never seen a single one since. I only live 64 miles away from Owosso where they were built.

[HairyUpperLip]

omg.

my family went to Vegas back in the early 90's and my brothers and I saw this car just sitting in a parking lot. it had lots of cobwebs all over it so we just assumed it was a movie prop car or something.


pretty cool to learn 20 years later it was an actual car. thanks for the random info!!

[greaper007]

What other car can I buy for 5 year cost of 18 cents/mile?  (And must be reliable / respectable enough for SO to drive to work everyday)

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/nissan-leaf-almost-paying-me-to-drive-it/

The cost per mile depends on how much you drive it, but with the tax credits and manufacturer incentives, the electric cars (and the Leaf in particular) could be the cheapest thing around. You could lease a Leaf for $199/mo and have no maintenance costs. In Georgia, there's a $5k tax credit that makes the 3 year lease cost $60/mo. And I'm paying under $10/mo for electricity to charge it. If you add in the extra cost of insurance (for me $30/mo), you're driving a brand new car with no emissions for $100/mo. If you drive 1000 miles that's 10 cents per mile. At 1 cent per mile for electricity, the energy costs about as much as the tires.

I actually bought mine and I'm thinking about buying another. Since Nissan kicked in $3.5k and 0% financing for 6 years, on top of the $7.5k federal and $5k GA credits, I paid a net $13.5k for it. With the low cost of energy (1 cent per mile with my EV rate plan), and almost no maintenance required (literally just minor things like cabin air filters, brake fluid, etc), and warranties (5 year for EV system, 8 year for battery), it's very cheap to own. The downsides: 1) the battery will give you about 100 miles (or 75+ if you drive inefficiently and use the A/C or heater), 2) charging is slower than filling a gas tank, 3) the battery has less capacity over time (estimated to drop in half by 10 years, but warrantied to retain at least 70% capacity after 5 years). You can buy a new battery, and can even get aftermarket add-on batteries to extend the range (voids the warranty). But that costs about $5k in current prices (probably $2-3k by the time you need a new battery, given how the prices are dropping).

Charging from a standard household outlet adds 5 miles of range per hour. Charging from a 240V outlet add up to 30 miles of range per hour. Charging at a DC fast charging station adds up to 80 miles of range in 30 minutes.

Interesting, I've been trying to justify an electric car when I already have 2 very cheap to operate ICE cars.     I might have to do some math on the leaf.

[DarinC]

Yup, EVs are where it's at given the federal/state incentives and cost of electricity. Especially if you roll your own solar panels.

I had an 82 Rabbit diesel, which got parked for a 2005 Prius. My wife stole that, so I got a 2000 Insight, and the only way I can beat that in operating costs is via an i-MiEV or a Leaf.

Well, at least with a car. Really, I just want to build an electric velomobile and call it done, but my wife won't let me do that.

[forummm]

Interesting, I've been trying to justify an electric car when I already have 2 very cheap to operate ICE cars.     I might have to do some math on the leaf.

Yeah, when I bought my 2010 Corolla I thought I would keep it for 20 years. But I've been thinking about selling my paid off 2010 Corolla and leasing another Leaf. I never thought I would ever lease a car, but I didn't expect crazy tax credits to be available either. The way the math works out in Georgia, my net cost for a 3 year lease would be around $3k total. That's probably as much as my Corolla would be depreciating during that time (let alone the opportunity cost of the ~$12k sitting in the garage, maintenance, energy cost, etc). And then when the lease expired we could go down to just the Leaf we already have (and buy a bike) and be a 1 car family and save quite a bit (insurance, depreciation, etc). Assuming I quit my job around that time. Could always pickup another car at that point if needed. The only downside to this scheme is that we'd probably want to rent an ICE for any road trips we did (we average about 1/year), but that's only $200/week.

[Jack]

Today on the freeway I saw an old Mercedes sedan, the kind you'd expect people to want to get rid of. Except it was a 300D (turbodiesel) and had "not for sale" written on the rear window. I was amused, but not surprised.

It wouldn't get great fuel economy, but I'd still call it a mustachian car.

[ketchup]

Today on the freeway I saw an old Mercedes sedan, the kind you'd expect people to want to get rid of. Except it was a 300D (turbodiesel) and had "not for sale" written on the rear window. I was amused, but not surprised.

It wouldn't get great fuel economy, but I'd still call it a mustachian car.

Those are pretty badass.  The diesel engines powering those cars are known for lasting absolutely forever (like 500K+ miles with basic engine maintenance), and they're built like tanks.  Probably 30MPG absolute best case scenario (early 80s 240D with manual 4-speed, on the highway, going 50MPH, with a tailwind).  I'd drive one.  They're one of the closest things to a Buy-It-For-Life car I can think of.

[Bob W]

Great post!   For more information on this very Mustachian topic Google hypermilers or go to a site like Ecomodder. 

You would be amazed at the number of cars, primarily stick shifts, accords, civics,  metros that get over 60 mpg.

The trick is to drive for efficiency.  Coast lots by anticipating stop signs.  Drive at 55 on highway, a safe speed. 

Read about some of the hypermiler tricks and any car can get 10 percent better mileage.   

[Bob W]

What other car can I buy for 5 year cost of 18 cents/mile?  (And must be reliable / respectable enough for SO to drive to work everyday)

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/nissan-leaf-almost-paying-me-to-drive-it/

The cost per mile depends on how much you drive it, but with the tax credits and manufacturer incentives, the electric cars (and the Leaf in particular) could be the cheapest thing around. You could lease a Leaf for $199/mo and have no maintenance costs. In Georgia, there's a $5k tax credit that makes the 3 year lease cost $60/mo. And I'm paying under $10/mo for electricity to charge it. If you add in the extra cost of insurance (for me $30/mo), you're driving a brand new car with no emissions for $100/mo. If you drive 1000 miles that's 10 cents per mile. At 1 cent per mile for electricity, the energy costs about as much as the tires.

I actually bought mine and I'm thinking about buying another. Since Nissan kicked in $3.5k and 0% financing for 6 years, on top of the $7.5k federal and $5k GA credits, I paid a net $13.5k for it. With the low cost of energy (1 cent per mile with my EV rate plan), and almost no maintenance required (literally just minor things like cabin air filters, brake fluid, etc), and warranties (5 year for EV system, 8 year for battery), it's very cheap to own. The downsides: 1) the battery will give you about 100 miles (or 75+ if you drive inefficiently and use the A/C or heater), 2) charging is slower than filling a gas tank, 3) the battery has less capacity over time (estimated to drop in half by 10 years, but warrantied to retain at least 70% capacity after 5 years). You can buy a new battery, and can even get aftermarket add-on batteries to extend the range (voids the warranty). But that costs about $5k in current prices (probably $2-3k by the time you need a new battery, given how the prices are dropping).

Charging from a standard household outlet adds 5 miles of range per hour. Charging from a 240V outlet add up to 30 miles of range per hour. Charging at a DC fast charging station adds up to 80 miles of range in 30 minutes.

This is a great idea!  Unfortunately I will be driving in excess of 100 miles per day and can't use this strategy.

But my daughter on the other hand might benefit from this.   $100 per month for a car with power is a great price!