Author Topic: Mustachian body disposal?  (Read 7835 times)

namasteyall

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Mustachian body disposal?
« on: September 18, 2021, 06:24:50 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/17/cremation-or-composting-id-consider-latter/

Good, funny comments after the article. Look under Most Liked.

Basically it is a humorous and practical article which describes ways of being ecological, reducing funeral costs while helping others. 

« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 08:21:23 AM by namasteyall »

uniwelder

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2021, 06:28:45 AM »
Sorry, The article is behind a paywall.

MagneticNorth

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2021, 09:44:34 AM »
archive.is will save a snapshot of an article, allowing you to read the archived version without the paywall. Works on most but not all paywall sites.

In this case, the article is saved at: https://archive.is/LkuHI

GuitarStv

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2021, 10:10:52 AM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

Metalcat

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2021, 10:32:45 AM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

I've never understood the purpose of embalming and complicated caskets either. Granted, I've also never been to a funeral in my adult life, my circle only does wakes, so I haven't actually seen a casket since I was 8 years old. So to me, it always seems more like something that's done in movies and not by people IRL, even though I know that's not true.

uniwelder

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2021, 11:03:30 AM »
archive.is will save a snapshot of an article, allowing you to read the archived version without the paywall. Works on most but not all paywall sites.

In this case, the article is saved at: https://archive.is/LkuHI

Got it!  You can only see the top few, but the comments are good to read too.

Car Jack

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2021, 12:13:45 PM »
Soylent Green

Moonwaves

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2021, 12:45:48 PM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

I've never understood the purpose of embalming and complicated caskets either. Granted, I've also never been to a funeral in my adult life, my circle only does wakes, so I haven't actually seen a casket since I was 8 years old. So to me, it always seems more like something that's done in movies and not by people IRL, even though I know that's not true.
How do you have a wake without the coffin/the deceased there? Is this another cultural difference?
Usually the wake happens in the house where the open coffin is laid out on the night before the funeral. You stay awake with the corpse, so to speak.

ETA: Never mind, I'm reading the wikipedia entry about wakes. Death really is one of those things that is different in every country, I think (and probably even within countries, too).
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 12:48:12 PM by Moonwaves »

Metalcat

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2021, 12:52:05 PM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

I've never understood the purpose of embalming and complicated caskets either. Granted, I've also never been to a funeral in my adult life, my circle only does wakes, so I haven't actually seen a casket since I was 8 years old. So to me, it always seems more like something that's done in movies and not by people IRL, even though I know that's not true.
How do you have a wake without the coffin/the deceased there? Is this another cultural difference?
Usually the wake happens in the house where the open coffin is laid out on the night before the funeral. You stay awake with the corpse, so to speak.

ETA: Never mind, I'm reading the wikipedia entry about wakes. Death really is one of those things that is different in every country, I think (and probably even within countries, too).

Maybe wake isn't the right term, but it's the term a lot of people have used here. Basically, everyone I know has a funeral-like event without a body, typically a celebration of life with speeches, which are often humour, similar to weddings, sometimes a slide show, sometimes music, etc. Literally no one in my adult life has had a proper funeral with a casket, and I have never attended one at a cemetery or been to any kind of burial like I always see on TV.

Psychstache

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2021, 01:02:33 PM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

I've never understood the purpose of embalming and complicated caskets either. Granted, I've also never been to a funeral in my adult life, my circle only does wakes, so I haven't actually seen a casket since I was 8 years old. So to me, it always seems more like something that's done in movies and not by people IRL, even though I know that's not true.

So, I don't remember all of the details, so I am sure I will screw this up, but I listened to a podcast episode that was doing an interview with the author of a book on death.

The author was a researcher turned funeral home specialist and she talked about how modern embalming procedures evolved from practices that have roots in the Civil War. When a union soldier died in the south (or vice versa), an industry sprang up for people to go around to battlefields, collect the dead, and preserve them so that they could be brought back home for identity verification and burial. The journey sometimes took a while, so they found ways to preserve the body stuffing them with sawdust and other materials to slow/prevent rot until they could get back home.

EDIT: Found it. From the book "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes: And Other Lessons From the Crematory".

Here's the link to the podcast and a relevant excerpt:

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/book-club-caitlin-doughty/

KONNIKOVA: What prompted the change? Why do we suddenly have something like that where we didnít need it in the 1800s or early 1900s, I guess?

DOUGHTY: You could start a lot of it with the American Civil War, because you had all of these soldiers that went to fight. They died in the South. And it was so important for the Northern families to be able to see the dead body that they were willing to do anything to get the bodies of their husbands and their sons back to them. So this new class of worker called an embalmer would follow the Civil War battles from battle to battle, almost like an ambulance chaser, and set up their embalming tents and say, ďHey, grieving parents, if you want me to disembowel your son and stuff him with sawdust and sew him back up so the body can be transported safely without bad smells or decomposition, Iím going to do that for you.Ē And that was actually a great service for the period.

After the Civil War things should have gone back to normal. But those same men said, ďWeíre gonna make embalming a thing. Weíre going to travel the country. Weíre going to convince people that the corpse is somehow dangerous if you donít use these chemicals. For preservation, sanitation, and appearance, you need professional intervention with your dead bodies.Ē And it worked real well, because nowadays most people donít even know that they have the power themselves to just take care of the dead in your own home if you want. You donít actually need to use a funeral home. 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 01:29:42 PM by Psychstache »

Moonwaves

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2021, 01:07:30 PM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

I've never understood the purpose of embalming and complicated caskets either. Granted, I've also never been to a funeral in my adult life, my circle only does wakes, so I haven't actually seen a casket since I was 8 years old. So to me, it always seems more like something that's done in movies and not by people IRL, even though I know that's not true.
How do you have a wake without the coffin/the deceased there? Is this another cultural difference?
Usually the wake happens in the house where the open coffin is laid out on the night before the funeral. You stay awake with the corpse, so to speak.

ETA: Never mind, I'm reading the wikipedia entry about wakes. Death really is one of those things that is different in every country, I think (and probably even within countries, too).

Maybe wake isn't the right term, but it's the term a lot of people have used here. Basically, everyone I know has a funeral-like event without a body, typically a celebration of life with speeches, which are often humour, similar to weddings, sometimes a slide show, sometimes music, etc. Literally no one in my adult life has had a proper funeral with a casket, and I have never attended one at a cemetery or been to any kind of burial like I always see on TV.
No, apparently the modern use of the word wake refers to exactly that type of celebration of a life. Except for in a few countries, like Ireland, where we're still pretty old style.

Generally, you have a removal and a funeral. The removal is usually the removal of the coffin from the undertakers back to the house, depending on where it is, people might gather at the funeral home/undertakers and follow the hearse back to the house, where the wake then takes place. Or people just arrive at the house and wait for the hearse to arrive. A removal is often in the late afternoon/evening so that people who are working and might not be able to take time off for the funeral, can still pay their respects.

Then the following morning, the undertaker comes back, closes up the coffin and the hearse takes the coffin from the house to the church for the funeral mass. And after that you go from the church to the graveyard (or crematorium) and the final prayers are said as the coffin in lowered into the grave/pushed behind the curtain or whatever setup they have.

Down the country in the village where my mum is buried, the hearse does move the coffin from the church to the graveyard but it drives very slowly while everyone walks behind it. That only works because the graveyard is about a three-minute walk from the church. In Dublin, everyone piles into their cars and follows behind the hearse until they get to the graveyard/crematorium, which can be a fair distance away from the church.  Come to think of it, I've never been to a non-religious funeral. That's bound to change over the coming years but only very slowly, I think.

Anyway, back on topic: I definitely don't want to be buried and have always liked the idea of minimal embalming (I don't think absolutely none is allowed here), a cardboard box and being cremated, with the ashes then used as fertiliser in a garden.

Metalcat

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2021, 01:17:03 PM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

I've never understood the purpose of embalming and complicated caskets either. Granted, I've also never been to a funeral in my adult life, my circle only does wakes, so I haven't actually seen a casket since I was 8 years old. So to me, it always seems more like something that's done in movies and not by people IRL, even though I know that's not true.
How do you have a wake without the coffin/the deceased there? Is this another cultural difference?
Usually the wake happens in the house where the open coffin is laid out on the night before the funeral. You stay awake with the corpse, so to speak.

ETA: Never mind, I'm reading the wikipedia entry about wakes. Death really is one of those things that is different in every country, I think (and probably even within countries, too).

Maybe wake isn't the right term, but it's the term a lot of people have used here. Basically, everyone I know has a funeral-like event without a body, typically a celebration of life with speeches, which are often humour, similar to weddings, sometimes a slide show, sometimes music, etc. Literally no one in my adult life has had a proper funeral with a casket, and I have never attended one at a cemetery or been to any kind of burial like I always see on TV.
No, apparently the modern use of the word wake refers to exactly that type of celebration of a life. Except for in a few countries, like Ireland, where we're still pretty old style.

Generally, you have a removal and a funeral. The removal is usually the removal of the coffin from the undertakers back to the house, depending on where it is, people might gather at the funeral home/undertakers and follow the hearse back to the house, where the wake then takes place. Or people just arrive at the house and wait for the hearse to arrive. A removal is often in the late afternoon/evening so that people who are working and might not be able to take time off for the funeral, can still pay their respects.

Then the following morning, the undertaker comes back, closes up the coffin and the hearse takes the coffin from the house to the church for the funeral mass. And after that you go from the church to the graveyard (or crematorium) and the final prayers are said as the coffin in lowered into the grave/pushed behind the curtain or whatever setup they have.

Down the country in the village where my mum is buried, the hearse does move the coffin from the church to the graveyard but it drives very slowly while everyone walks behind it. That only works because the graveyard is about a three-minute walk from the church. In Dublin, everyone piles into their cars and follows behind the hearse until they get to the graveyard/crematorium, which can be a fair distance away from the church.  Come to think of it, I've never been to a non-religious funeral. That's bound to change over the coming years but only very slowly, I think.

Anyway, back on topic: I definitely don't want to be buried and have always liked the idea of minimal embalming (I don't think absolutely none is allowed here), a cardboard box and being cremated, with the ashes then used as fertiliser in a garden.

Yeah, I have no interest in my dead body being dragged and followed around town. This is definitely not something done in my circles at all. I assume everyone I know had been cremated? Maybe? Honestly, I've never thought to even ask.

GuitarStv

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2021, 01:23:03 PM »
The last four funerals that I've been there wasn't really a wake.  (Incidentally, they were all also cremations.)  There was a funeral, and then after the funeral there was a reception.

Not having a body lying around to stare at seems to me to be a bit easier to deal with emotionally.


Smokystache

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2021, 02:16:11 PM »
[If it matters, I'm not a Funeral Director, but work in the "Death Care" industry]

I find the different trends fascinating. There are new hot topics in death care all the time -- and human composting is the latest. One thing that I find interesting is that composting isn't cheaper than cremation without a funeral service. Katrina Spade at Recompose has done the heavy lifting to get this passed in several states, and they list their prices at $5500 (https://recompose.life/death-care/#pricing. I understand that many people are considering this because they feel that it is the most natural option, but certainly don't do it because you think it is the most cost effective.

IMHO, if you want the most natural option, find a "green" cemetery that will allow you to be buried without a vault & casket. Buy a linen shroud to be wrapped in and pay someone (or have family/friends) to dig the grave and drop you in.

youngwildandfree

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2021, 02:40:00 PM »
I hope I live so long that my body is no longer useful, but if I die anytime soon I hope as much of my body as possible would go to organ donation and/or medical research labs. They cremate unused remains afterwards and return them to the family if desired.

I did attend a funeral as a child that included an open casket, but I was too frightened to look inside. Since then all the funerals I have attended were religious style gatherings or celebrations of life and the deceased was cremated separately.

dblaace

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2021, 03:22:02 PM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

I've never understood the purpose of embalming and complicated caskets either. Granted, I've also never been to a funeral in my adult life, my circle only does wakes, so I haven't actually seen a casket since I was 8 years old. So to me, it always seems more like something that's done in movies and not by people IRL, even though I know that's not true.
How do you have a wake without the coffin/the deceased there? Is this another cultural difference?
Usually the wake happens in the house where the open coffin is laid out on the night before the funeral. You stay awake with the corpse, so to speak.

ETA: Never mind, I'm reading the wikipedia entry about wakes. Death really is one of those things that is different in every country, I think (and probably even within countries, too).

Maybe wake isn't the right term, but it's the term a lot of people have used here. Basically, everyone I know has a funeral-like event without a body, typically a celebration of life with speeches, which are often humour, similar to weddings, sometimes a slide show, sometimes music, etc. Literally no one in my adult life has had a proper funeral with a casket, and I have never attended one at a cemetery or been to any kind of burial like I always see on TV.
No, apparently the modern use of the word wake refers to exactly that type of celebration of a life. Except for in a few countries, like Ireland, where we're still pretty old style.

Generally, you have a removal and a funeral. The removal is usually the removal of the coffin from the undertakers back to the house, depending on where it is, people might gather at the funeral home/undertakers and follow the hearse back to the house, where the wake then takes place. Or people just arrive at the house and wait for the hearse to arrive. A removal is often in the late afternoon/evening so that people who are working and might not be able to take time off for the funeral, can still pay their respects.

Then the following morning, the undertaker comes back, closes up the coffin and the hearse takes the coffin from the house to the church for the funeral mass. And after that you go from the church to the graveyard (or crematorium) and the final prayers are said as the coffin in lowered into the grave/pushed behind the curtain or whatever setup they have.

Down the country in the village where my mum is buried, the hearse does move the coffin from the church to the graveyard but it drives very slowly while everyone walks behind it. That only works because the graveyard is about a three-minute walk from the church. In Dublin, everyone piles into their cars and follows behind the hearse until they get to the graveyard/crematorium, which can be a fair distance away from the church.  Come to think of it, I've never been to a non-religious funeral. That's bound to change over the coming years but only very slowly, I think.

Anyway, back on topic: I definitely don't want to be buried and have always liked the idea of minimal embalming (I don't think absolutely none is allowed here), a cardboard box and being cremated, with the ashes then used as fertiliser in a garden.
That sounds like a viewing in my area and it usually takes place at the Funeral Home.

sailinlight

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2021, 03:29:23 PM »
I've been to a few events called funerals in California and I've never seen the casket or body. I would refer to them as "celebrations of life" but they were not marketed as such..

dougules

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2021, 03:46:16 PM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

I've never understood the purpose of embalming and complicated caskets either. Granted, I've also never been to a funeral in my adult life, my circle only does wakes, so I haven't actually seen a casket since I was 8 years old. So to me, it always seems more like something that's done in movies and not by people IRL, even though I know that's not true.

So, I don't remember all of the details, so I am sure I will screw this up, but I listened to a podcast episode that was doing an interview with the author of a book on death.

The author was a researcher turned funeral home specialist and she talked about how modern embalming procedures evolved from practices that have roots in the Civil War. When a union soldier died in the south (or vice versa), an industry sprang up for people to go around to battlefields, collect the dead, and preserve them so that they could be brought back home for identity verification and burial. The journey sometimes took a while, so they found ways to preserve the body stuffing them with sawdust and other materials to slow/prevent rot until they could get back home.

EDIT: Found it. From the book "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes: And Other Lessons From the Crematory".

Here's the link to the podcast and a relevant excerpt:

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/book-club-caitlin-doughty/

KONNIKOVA: What prompted the change? Why do we suddenly have something like that where we didnít need it in the 1800s or early 1900s, I guess?

DOUGHTY: You could start a lot of it with the American Civil War, because you had all of these soldiers that went to fight. They died in the South. And it was so important for the Northern families to be able to see the dead body that they were willing to do anything to get the bodies of their husbands and their sons back to them. So this new class of worker called an embalmer would follow the Civil War battles from battle to battle, almost like an ambulance chaser, and set up their embalming tents and say, ďHey, grieving parents, if you want me to disembowel your son and stuff him with sawdust and sew him back up so the body can be transported safely without bad smells or decomposition, Iím going to do that for you.Ē And that was actually a great service for the period.

After the Civil War things should have gone back to normal. But those same men said, ďWeíre gonna make embalming a thing. Weíre going to travel the country. Weíre going to convince people that the corpse is somehow dangerous if you donít use these chemicals. For preservation, sanitation, and appearance, you need professional intervention with your dead bodies.Ē And it worked real well, because nowadays most people donít even know that they have the power themselves to just take care of the dead in your own home if you want. You donít actually need to use a funeral home.

I guess this explains why funerals in the South are the way they are.  If the body is intact at all, the funeral home will embalm it, put makeup on it, and do everything possible so they can have an open-casket funeral where everyone will file past the casket to view the body and pay respects.

My grandmother has been explicitly telling us she doesn't want that.  In appropriately colorful fashion, she threatened to pull my mom and aunt in with her if her funeral was open-casket.  Frankly I don't want that either. 

Another tradition is that when the big procession of cars drives from the funeral home to the cemetery, everyone else on the road just pulls over the side and stops their car as the procession goes by.  DH is not a southerner, and it annoys him to no end.   

Metalcat

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2021, 05:02:28 PM »
The best funeral I went to was my ex's grandmother.

She put the entire family up in an extremely luxurious hotel for a week, and each day of the week involved us doing her favourite activities during the day, and dinners at her favourite restaurants, with jazz from her favourite musicians, etc, etc. Basically, we all got to live what would have been her ideal week.

Zamboni

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2021, 09:39:07 PM »
^Wow, that was really nice of her! She sounds like a cool lady.

Metalcat

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2021, 09:47:30 PM »
^Wow, that was really nice of her! She sounds like a cool lady.

Yeah, she was crazy cool. We were really good friends even though I was 18 and she was 86.

Zamboni

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2021, 09:47:51 PM »

bmjohnson35

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2021, 08:04:16 PM »

My mom just went to a "celebration of life" for a long term friend.  They did just what he wanted, a big barbecue with dress code being shorts and flip flops.  It is my understanding that he was cremated and the gathering was simply a celebration of the love and friendship he had with family and friends.  I have been to a few formal funerals with open casket and I don't get it neither.     

familyandfarming

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2021, 08:44:13 PM »
I had a dear friend who owned a wooded preserve. It can never be developed. Right before she passed away she had an area GPSd and a hole was dug.  Two hours after her passing, she was dressed in her favorite cotton dress, wrapped in a cotton blanket, and put in the under-the-tree grave by her children. I was told you canít just bury bodies Willy-Nilly, as ground water comes into play.

She was the only person I know personally that could pull off a green burial like that. The rest of us have to go with cremation.

hooplady

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2021, 06:54:22 PM »
I'm deciding between cremation (but who the heck will want the urn?), green burial, and whole-body donation. The latter two require some prior action and documentation but seem like the best of the lot. I like the idea that my remains could help protect land against development (green burial), or may turn into some crazy science experiment (I could end up in a body farm!).

Ever since I saw "A Will for the Woods" I've been intrigued by the green burial idea.  http://www.awillforthewoods.com/

Metalcat

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2021, 07:42:31 PM »
I'm deciding between cremation (but who the heck will want the urn?), green burial, and whole-body donation. The latter two require some prior action and documentation but seem like the best of the lot. I like the idea that my remains could help protect land against development (green burial), or may turn into some crazy science experiment (I could end up in a body farm!).

Ever since I saw "A Will for the Woods" I've been intrigued by the green burial idea.  http://www.awillforthewoods.com/

As someone who learned on human bodies, I appreciate those who donate.

But also, as someone who learned on human bodies, there's no effing way my family would appreciate me donating after the stories I've told them. Lol.

youngwildandfree

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2021, 08:30:21 PM »
I'm deciding between cremation (but who the heck will want the urn?), green burial, and whole-body donation. The latter two require some prior action and documentation but seem like the best of the lot. I like the idea that my remains could help protect land against development (green burial), or may turn into some crazy science experiment (I could end up in a body farm!).

Ever since I saw "A Will for the Woods" I've been intrigued by the green burial idea.  http://www.awillforthewoods.com/

As someone who learned on human bodies, I appreciate those who donate.

But also, as someone who learned on human bodies, there's no effing way my family would appreciate me donating after the stories I've told them. Lol.

Now I want to hear some of your stories! We use donated bodies in our research at work, so Iím close enough to appreciate the impact. My family doesnít seem too bothered by my plan for whole body donation so far. Not sure Iíve told all of them.

Focus_on_the_fire

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2021, 08:55:34 PM »
I'm deciding between cremation (but who the heck will want the urn?), green burial, and whole-body donation. The latter two require some prior action and documentation but seem like the best of the lot. I like the idea that my remains could help protect land against development (green burial), or may turn into some crazy science experiment (I could end up in a body farm!).

Ever since I saw "A Will for the Woods" I've been intrigued by the green burial idea.  http://www.awillforthewoods.com/


Uh, yeah! You can't leave us hanging like this.
As someone who learned on human bodies, I appreciate those who donate.

But also, as someone who learned on human bodies, there's no effing way my family would appreciate me donating after the stories I've told them. Lol.

Now I want to hear some of your stories! We use donated bodies in our research at work, so Iím close enough to appreciate the impact. My family doesnít seem too bothered by my plan for whole body donation so far. Not sure Iíve told all of them.

Metalcat

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2021, 05:17:20 AM »
I'm deciding between cremation (but who the heck will want the urn?), green burial, and whole-body donation. The latter two require some prior action and documentation but seem like the best of the lot. I like the idea that my remains could help protect land against development (green burial), or may turn into some crazy science experiment (I could end up in a body farm!).

Ever since I saw "A Will for the Woods" I've been intrigued by the green burial idea.  http://www.awillforthewoods.com/

As someone who learned on human bodies, I appreciate those who donate.

But also, as someone who learned on human bodies, there's no effing way my family would appreciate me donating after the stories I've told them. Lol.

Now I want to hear some of your stories! We use donated bodies in our research at work, so Iím close enough to appreciate the impact. My family doesnít seem too bothered by my plan for whole body donation so far. Not sure Iíve told all of them.

I'm actually joking, my family wouldn't care, but my DH would be bothered by it because he's sensitive. My favourite story from school is about being elbow deep in a giant Rubbermaid bin of dismembered human genitals.

dcheesi

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2021, 06:35:01 AM »
The idea of embalming and burial has always repulsed me.  Cremation is slightly better, but I'm 100% on board with composting.  I'm just borrowing the Earth's resources for a while while alive.  When I'm dead, I want to return these resources back to the Earth in as simple and non-polluting manner as possible.

I've never understood the purpose of embalming and complicated caskets either. Granted, I've also never been to a funeral in my adult life, my circle only does wakes, so I haven't actually seen a casket since I was 8 years old. So to me, it always seems more like something that's done in movies and not by people IRL, even though I know that's not true.
How do you have a wake without the coffin/the deceased there? Is this another cultural difference?
Usually the wake happens in the house where the open coffin is laid out on the night before the funeral. You stay awake with the corpse, so to speak.

ETA: Never mind, I'm reading the wikipedia entry about wakes. Death really is one of those things that is different in every country, I think (and probably even within countries, too).
For my extended family in the US (Southern Protestants), your description would be called a "visitation", and it would generally happen in a funeral home. Then a church service and/or graveside service the next day.

I think what happened with the term "wake" here is that people lost sight of the original significance of the term and the event, focusing instead (as is typical with all things Irish in America) on the perceived "party/celebration" aspect and adapting it from there. Old Irish-American standards like "Finnegan's Wake" and "The Night Paddy Murphy Died" probably helped promote this (mis-)perception.

ETA: To be clear: while less formal and more social than a proper funeral, the "visitation" is generally not a "festive" atmosphere either. Among other things, this is in keeping with the Southern Protestant tradition of frowning upon alcohol use (which is not to say that most Southerners don't drink; they're just not supposed to do it where "proper" folk (e.g., the preacher) might see them).
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 06:45:08 AM by dcheesi »

HamsterStache

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2021, 08:28:23 AM »
Spending money on anyoneís dead body never made sense to me

kite

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2021, 07:13:14 AM »
I'm deciding between cremation (but who the heck will want the urn?), green burial, and whole-body donation. The latter two require some prior action and documentation but seem like the best of the lot. I like the idea that my remains could help protect land against development (green burial), or may turn into some crazy science experiment (I could end up in a body farm!).

Ever since I saw "A Will for the Woods" I've been intrigued by the green burial idea.  http://www.awillforthewoods.com/

There doesn't need to be an urn.  Coffee Can will worked fine for Donny Kerabatsos and for Angela McCourt.  Folgers for the former, Savarin, for the latter. I think.  I've got a Chock full o' Nuts can on standby. It does say "heavenly" on the side.

Smokystache

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2021, 08:33:27 PM »
Spending money on anyoneís dead body never made sense to me

I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but really? I hear the "throw me in a ditch" line a fair amount and I'm so confused.

- I have a nice picture of my family and I bought a frame to put it in. I guess I could have used painter's tape to just stick it to the wall.
- I bought my wife (reserved seat) tickets to her favorite band at a music festival. I guess I could have gotten cheaper lawn (fight for your spot) tickets instead, but didn't want to only see the band on a big screen.
- I bought a reasonably priced piece of furniture to set my 8-year-old TV on. I guess I could have grabbed some concrete blocks and 2x6's out of a dumpster and used that for a TV stand.
- I live in a place that requires our family to have at least one car and I bought a used Honda CR-V. I guess I could have bought something cheaper with obviously replaced body panels and it doesn't need a consistent paint color to get me from A to B.
- When my father (who loves wood working and I get along with great) dies, I'm going to get him a decent wood casket. Perhaps something built by Amish/Mennonite. I know funeral homes will sell me a cardboard casket if I ask for it and I could save money. I'm going to pay for a visitation so that my mom hears stories about how great my dad was and people show her love and support. I'm going to pay for a permanent place to put him, because I like to visit cemeteries and find comfort there.

The vast majority of us spend more than we "need" to on some items in our lives. Virtually no one should by a Prometheon "Gold Send Off" Casket [http://www.thecasketdepot.com/sporprca.html - although if it is a drop in your financial bucket, I'm not going to judge that either. But there's a huge range between $24k casket and cardboard box. Don't overspend and higher priced funerals don't make the grief easier. But there are also far worse things to spend your money on if you find it comforting or helpful. (With emphasis on you finding it helpful - not someone else suggesting that a higher-priced option will make it better.)

I'm fine with people making other choices based on their values and their situation may be very different. But it has almost come to the point where people suggest you're stupid to spend money on rituals at the end of life ... but then spend all sorts of money on other things that have very little meaning in their life.

Metalcat

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2021, 02:44:31 AM »
Spending money on anyoneís dead body never made sense to me

I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but really? I hear the "throw me in a ditch" line a fair amount and I'm so confused.

- I have a nice picture of my family and I bought a frame to put it in. I guess I could have used painter's tape to just stick it to the wall.
- I bought my wife (reserved seat) tickets to her favorite band at a music festival. I guess I could have gotten cheaper lawn (fight for your spot) tickets instead, but didn't want to only see the band on a big screen.
- I bought a reasonably priced piece of furniture to set my 8-year-old TV on. I guess I could have grabbed some concrete blocks and 2x6's out of a dumpster and used that for a TV stand.
- I live in a place that requires our family to have at least one car and I bought a used Honda CR-V. I guess I could have bought something cheaper with obviously replaced body panels and it doesn't need a consistent paint color to get me from A to B.
- When my father (who loves wood working and I get along with great) dies, I'm going to get him a decent wood casket. Perhaps something built by Amish/Mennonite. I know funeral homes will sell me a cardboard casket if I ask for it and I could save money. I'm going to pay for a visitation so that my mom hears stories about how great my dad was and people show her love and support. I'm going to pay for a permanent place to put him, because I like to visit cemeteries and find comfort there.

The vast majority of us spend more than we "need" to on some items in our lives. Virtually no one should by a Prometheon "Gold Send Off" Casket [http://www.thecasketdepot.com/sporprca.html - although if it is a drop in your financial bucket, I'm not going to judge that either. But there's a huge range between $24k casket and cardboard box. Don't overspend and higher priced funerals don't make the grief easier. But there are also far worse things to spend your money on if you find it comforting or helpful. (With emphasis on you finding it helpful - not someone else suggesting that a higher-priced option will make it better.)

I'm fine with people making other choices based on their values and their situation may be very different. But it has almost come to the point where people suggest you're stupid to spend money on rituals at the end of life ... but then spend all sorts of money on other things that have very little meaning in their life.

I don't think people question spending on end of life.

Some people just don't get the appeal of doing complicated ceremonial stuff with a dead body.

I don't necessarily think it's a judgement thing, it's far more the norm than not. It's just that to some of us, it's super weird. And we're perfectly entitled to that opinion.

Whatever my loved ones want to do in terms of paying their respects, I'm fine with. It's for them, not for me, but they had better not pump my dead body full of chemicals, spackle it with cosmetics and put it on display for people.

All the power to folks who choose to do this for traditional or cultural reasons, but it's in my will not to because the thought of it bothers me so much.

Again, that's a personal opinion that I'm completely entitled to.

GuitarStv

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2021, 07:32:35 AM »
My body isn't who I am.

The thoughts, ideas, emotions . . . all of that is removed from my body after death.  So I tend to see a body as just a bunch of rapidly spoiling meat.  I understand the importance of having a ceremony to help those who have survived gather together to deal with grief and move on.  That makes sense.  But reverence for the spoiling meat simply isn't something that I get too hung up about.  The idea of spending a lot of money to try to keep the meat from spoiling for too long . . . ugh.  Such a weird thing to do, and seems to me kind of like an inability to accept reality get closure and move on.

Smokystache

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2021, 02:10:38 PM »
...
Whatever my loved ones want to do in terms of paying their respects, I'm fine with. It's for them, not for me, but they had better not pump my dead body full of chemicals, spackle it with cosmetics and put it on display for people.

...

... So I tend to see a body as just a bunch of rapidly spoiling meat.  I understand the importance of having a ceremony to help those who have survived gather together to deal with grief and move on.  That makes sense.  But reverence for the spoiling meat simply isn't something that I get too hung up about.

I can completely understand not wanting to have your own body put through the process of embalming or put out for a "viewing". Funeral & death rituals are tricky because I believe a person should have control over what happens to them. However, those death rituals, as you've mentioned, are meant to provide some comfort to the bereaved. I've always said that a funeral (or similar service designed to recognize a deceased person: memorial service, celebration of life, etc.) should honor the values and legacy of the person, but should incorporate "rituals" that help the bereaved acknowledge the loss, find and give one another support, help honor and share the legacy, and help the bereaved connect to whatever spiritual or other views about life that help them make sense of what has happened.

To achieve this, it can sometimes be helpful to have the deceased's body present. I've seen first-hand numerous times when families charge in the front doors of the funeral home and the first question is "when can I see them?" On the other hand, I've "successfully" grieved my own grandparents without having seen their dead bodies.

I think we're experiencing a "swing" away from traditional services -- and I welcome that. We shouldn't use any rituals (whether they be for marriages, funerals, coming of age, etc.) that aren't meaningful or are done just because we've always done them. But that doesn't mean rituals didn't originally have a purpose. The tricky thing is that when we say "I don't want to do anything traditional" - we sometimes don't realize what the underlying purpose of the ritual was and we lose that.

For example, some people hate the idea of a "public viewing" - where the deceased is present and people stand around and share sympathies with the family. I understand if you don't want to do that. But there are several reasons for this ritual.
1) People share stories: I heard stories at my grandfather's funeral that my father hadn't heard and that I'll tell my future grandchildren. A story that I've only ever heard once - at that visitation.
2) People find out about the death: It may feel like torture to go to a visitation and lots of people come up to you and express their sympathies (and often you don't know who this person is). But what can be worse is a) people don't know you've experienced a loss, or b) they find out one at a time a hundred times over -- like when you're at a small-town grocery store, or when you're raking the leaves, etc.

I'm not saying that we need to keep the traditional public viewing. But it helps to know that it may be in your best interest to find a way to spread the word about the loss and to try to gather stories and legacy while you can. I could go through the same example for a place of interment or for a service or for a reception.

I worry that some people (and I'm not responding to any specific person or comment in this thread) believe that if they discourage their loved ones from recognizing their death through services or rituals that somehow they have saved their family the pain of grief. I don't think that is true. I think all that does is just create a situation where your loved ones will grieve alone and without the benefit of rituals.

One last note. I use the term "rituals" to describe anything that would be helpful to the bereaved. I don't care at all if you get cremated or human composted at the cheapest place possible or donate your body to science. But I hope the survivors have a gathering of folks at a park or on the 18th green or in the backyard. But the gathering of (regardless if it is 5, 50, or 500) can be a powerful event with important consequences for how you integrate your loss into your personal world. YMMV

Metalcat

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2021, 02:39:54 PM »
I'm not questioning other people's desire for these rituals. Never said anything of the sort.

It's not my PERSONAL preference. I PERSONALLY find it creepy. For ME.

That's it.

Sugaree

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2021, 03:04:50 PM »
I'm in the southern United States.  We're known for dropping off casseroles and fried chicken to the deceased's family.  As far as rituals go, we have a visitation, usually the evening before the funeral, but sometimes it happens earlier in the day of the funeral.  It's often said that the visitation is for the living and the funeral is to pay respects to the dead. 

I, personally, want to skip all that and have my ashes interred into an artificial reef and sunk into the ocean.

Focus_on_the_fire

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2021, 06:45:15 PM »
I'm in the southern United States.  We're known for dropping off casseroles and fried chicken to the deceased's family.  As far as rituals go, we have a visitation, usually the evening before the funeral, but sometimes it happens earlier in the day of the funeral.  It's often said that the visitation is for the living and the funeral is to pay respects to the dead. 

I, personally, want to skip all that and have my ashes interred into an artificial reef and sunk into the ocean.

Oh Iím with you! Sign me up for the reef

namasteyall

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2021, 06:32:23 AM »


I, personally, want to skip all that and have my ashes interred into an artificial reef and sunk into the ocean.
[/quote]

Oh Iím with you! Sign me up for the reef
[/quote]

Maybe give the body directly to the fish?
Maybe cannibals still exist?

Which reminds me of that Sweeney Todd!

GuitarStv

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2021, 07:14:35 AM »
Maybe cannibals still exist?

I've looked into cannibalism as body disposal.  (Hey, meat is expensive.)

To the best of my knowledge, while not explicitly illegal to eat a dead person (who has willed that they want to be eaten) it is illegal in practice in most places (you run aground of 'desecration of a corpse' laws and similar).

yachi

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2021, 08:44:15 AM »
Maybe cannibals still exist?

I've looked into cannibalism as body disposal.  (Hey, meat is expensive.)

To the best of my knowledge, while not explicitly illegal to eat a dead person (who has willed that they want to be eaten) it is illegal in practice in most places (you run aground of 'desecration of a corpse' laws and similar).

I imagine a very large gap between my ideal age at death and the quality of my body as a food source.  I suppose, it would give new meaning to "Grampa's slow-cooker roast".

Missy B

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2021, 01:26:57 PM »
...
Whatever my loved ones want to do in terms of paying their respects, I'm fine with. It's for them, not for me, but they had better not pump my dead body full of chemicals, spackle it with cosmetics and put it on display for people.

...

... So I tend to see a body as just a bunch of rapidly spoiling meat.  I understand the importance of having a ceremony to help those who have survived gather together to deal with grief and move on.  That makes sense.  But reverence for the spoiling meat simply isn't something that I get too hung up about.

I can completely understand not wanting to have your own body put through the process of embalming or put out for a "viewing". Funeral & death rituals are tricky because I believe a person should have control over what happens to them. However, those death rituals, as you've mentioned, are meant to provide some comfort to the bereaved. I've always said that a funeral (or similar service designed to recognize a deceased person: memorial service, celebration of life, etc.) should honor the values and legacy of the person, but should incorporate "rituals" that help the bereaved acknowledge the loss, find and give one another support, help honor and share the legacy, and help the bereaved connect to whatever spiritual or other views about life that help them make sense of what has happened.

To achieve this, it can sometimes be helpful to have the deceased's body present. I've seen first-hand numerous times when families charge in the front doors of the funeral home and the first question is "when can I see them?" On the other hand, I've "successfully" grieved my own grandparents without having seen their dead bodies.

I think we're experiencing a "swing" away from traditional services -- and I welcome that. We shouldn't use any rituals (whether they be for marriages, funerals, coming of age, etc.) that aren't meaningful or are done just because we've always done them. But that doesn't mean rituals didn't originally have a purpose. The tricky thing is that when we say "I don't want to do anything traditional" - we sometimes don't realize what the underlying purpose of the ritual was and we lose that.

For example, some people hate the idea of a "public viewing" - where the deceased is present and people stand around and share sympathies with the family. I understand if you don't want to do that. But there are several reasons for this ritual.
1) People share stories: I heard stories at my grandfather's funeral that my father hadn't heard and that I'll tell my future grandchildren. A story that I've only ever heard once - at that visitation.
2) People find out about the death: It may feel like torture to go to a visitation and lots of people come up to you and express their sympathies (and often you don't know who this person is). But what can be worse is a) people don't know you've experienced a loss, or b) they find out one at a time a hundred times over -- like when you're at a small-town grocery store, or when you're raking the leaves, etc.

I'm not saying that we need to keep the traditional public viewing. But it helps to know that it may be in your best interest to find a way to spread the word about the loss and to try to gather stories and legacy while you can. I could go through the same example for a place of interment or for a service or for a reception.

I worry that some people (and I'm not responding to any specific person or comment in this thread) believe that if they discourage their loved ones from recognizing their death through services or rituals that somehow they have saved their family the pain of grief. I don't think that is true. I think all that does is just create a situation where your loved ones will grieve alone and without the benefit of rituals.

One last note. I use the term "rituals" to describe anything that would be helpful to the bereaved. I don't care at all if you get cremated or human composted at the cheapest place possible or donate your body to science. But I hope the survivors have a gathering of folks at a park or on the 18th green or in the backyard. But the gathering of (regardless if it is 5, 50, or 500) can be a powerful event with important consequences for how you integrate your loss into your personal world. YMMV
This is a great comment.

What I have noticed in the people that I personally know, is that all the ones who said "I don't want a funeral, I don't want anything, I"ll be dead and won't care" have these problems:

1.They don't want to process any of the emotional package around their own death.

2. They don't want to plan anything for their death because it brings up #1.

3. They are irresponsible and emotionally disconnected from the effect of their not doing #1 has on the people left behind. Who, in their grief, have to do  things that could have been done with far more ease by the dead person when they were alive.

4. They rob their people of the chance to properly mark their life and all the things SmokeyStache named in the post above.
People who don't have a ceremony because they are 'respecting their Dad's wish' not to have one aren't actually getting to show their respect at all in a way that is healing. All they're doing is going along with Dad's wish, when he was alive, not to have to think about anything painful.


dougules

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2021, 12:44:26 PM »
This is a great comment.

What I have noticed in the people that I personally know, is that all the ones who said "I don't want a funeral, I don't want anything, I"ll be dead and won't care" have these problems:

1.They don't want to process any of the emotional package around their own death.

To me it seems like you're not processing your own mortality well if you want to have your body embalmed and sealed in a crypt.  You're trying to put off the inevitable fact that at some point all the elements that came together to make you will go their own way, and some day sooner or later there will be no trace that those elements ever came together in the pattern of a person. 

Quote
2. They don't want to plan anything for their death because it brings up #1.

3. They are irresponsible and emotionally disconnected from the effect of their not doing #1 has on the people left behind. Who, in their grief, have to do  things that could have been done with far more ease by the dead person when they were alive.

4. They rob their people of the chance to properly mark their life and all the things SmokeyStache named in the post above.
People who don't have a ceremony because they are 'respecting their Dad's wish' not to have one aren't actually getting to show their respect at all in a way that is healing. All they're doing is going along with Dad's wish, when he was alive, not to have to think about anything painful.

It seems just as irresponsible to take resources away from the living after you're dead.  It's true that people should plan to give the living a meaningful chance to remember them, but people spend so much money on funerals.  A fully meaningful service to remember a person could be done for way less money.  Put most of my money towards improving the life of the living when I don't need it any more. 

I also don't want to occupy a piece of land for centuries that could go toward feeding or housing people 10 generations from now, or providing more wild habitat. 

Roadrunner53

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2023, 02:59:49 PM »
I have an even weirder situation with cremation going on. I have the cremains of 3 of my dogs and three of my deceased mother's dogs. The dogs were very special to us and it make us feel somewhat better to have had them cremated and have their ashes. I have some pet urns for them with mementos in them. My question is what becomes of these after I pass on? Mr. Roadrunner and I have no children so I can imagine the ashes will be thrown in the dumpster. There are no pet cemeteries that I know of to have the ashes buried. I suppose I could dig a hole in the backyard and put them there. It really doesn't appeal to me though.  I also wouldn't mind the ashes be put in my casket but not sure if that is allowed. What on earth do I do!

Villanelle

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2023, 04:05:49 PM »
...
Whatever my loved ones want to do in terms of paying their respects, I'm fine with. It's for them, not for me, but they had better not pump my dead body full of chemicals, spackle it with cosmetics and put it on display for people.

...

... So I tend to see a body as just a bunch of rapidly spoiling meat.  I understand the importance of having a ceremony to help those who have survived gather together to deal with grief and move on.  That makes sense.  But reverence for the spoiling meat simply isn't something that I get too hung up about.

I can completely understand not wanting to have your own body put through the process of embalming or put out for a "viewing". Funeral & death rituals are tricky because I believe a person should have control over what happens to them. However, those death rituals, as you've mentioned, are meant to provide some comfort to the bereaved. I've always said that a funeral (or similar service designed to recognize a deceased person: memorial service, celebration of life, etc.) should honor the values and legacy of the person, but should incorporate "rituals" that help the bereaved acknowledge the loss, find and give one another support, help honor and share the legacy, and help the bereaved connect to whatever spiritual or other views about life that help them make sense of what has happened.

To achieve this, it can sometimes be helpful to have the deceased's body present. I've seen first-hand numerous times when families charge in the front doors of the funeral home and the first question is "when can I see them?" On the other hand, I've "successfully" grieved my own grandparents without having seen their dead bodies.

I think we're experiencing a "swing" away from traditional services -- and I welcome that. We shouldn't use any rituals (whether they be for marriages, funerals, coming of age, etc.) that aren't meaningful or are done just because we've always done them. But that doesn't mean rituals didn't originally have a purpose. The tricky thing is that when we say "I don't want to do anything traditional" - we sometimes don't realize what the underlying purpose of the ritual was and we lose that.

For example, some people hate the idea of a "public viewing" - where the deceased is present and people stand around and share sympathies with the family. I understand if you don't want to do that. But there are several reasons for this ritual.
1) People share stories: I heard stories at my grandfather's funeral that my father hadn't heard and that I'll tell my future grandchildren. A story that I've only ever heard once - at that visitation.
2) People find out about the death: It may feel like torture to go to a visitation and lots of people come up to you and express their sympathies (and often you don't know who this person is). But what can be worse is a) people don't know you've experienced a loss, or b) they find out one at a time a hundred times over -- like when you're at a small-town grocery store, or when you're raking the leaves, etc.

I'm not saying that we need to keep the traditional public viewing. But it helps to know that it may be in your best interest to find a way to spread the word about the loss and to try to gather stories and legacy while you can. I could go through the same example for a place of interment or for a service or for a reception.

I worry that some people (and I'm not responding to any specific person or comment in this thread) believe that if they discourage their loved ones from recognizing their death through services or rituals that somehow they have saved their family the pain of grief. I don't think that is true. I think all that does is just create a situation where your loved ones will grieve alone and without the benefit of rituals.

One last note. I use the term "rituals" to describe anything that would be helpful to the bereaved. I don't care at all if you get cremated or human composted at the cheapest place possible or donate your body to science. But I hope the survivors have a gathering of folks at a park or on the 18th green or in the backyard. But the gathering of (regardless if it is 5, 50, or 500) can be a powerful event with important consequences for how you integrate your loss into your personal world. YMMV
This is a great comment.

What I have noticed in the people that I personally know, is that all the ones who said "I don't want a funeral, I don't want anything, I"ll be dead and won't care" have these problems:

1.They don't want to process any of the emotional package around their own death.

2. They don't want to plan anything for their death because it brings up #1.

3. They are irresponsible and emotionally disconnected from the effect of their not doing #1 has on the people left behind. Who, in their grief, have to do  things that could have been done with far more ease by the dead person when they were alive.

4. They rob their people of the chance to properly mark their life and all the things SmokeyStache named in the post above.
People who don't have a ceremony because they are 'respecting their Dad's wish' not to have one aren't actually getting to show their respect at all in a way that is healing. All they're doing is going along with Dad's wish, when he was alive, not to have to think about anything painful.

I'm firmly in the "i'll be dead so won't care" camp, but I don't think any of these things are true for me.  Though maybe I'm not who you are referring to, since I say, "if you don't care/know what to do with my body, I'll be dead so I won't care".  If they want to bury me in a traditional cemetary because that brings my loved ones comfort, cool.  Because... I'll be dead so I won't care.  If DH feels he will process my death better i he has me stuffed and sitting on the sofa, cool.  Because I'll be dead and won't care.  (Though the idea of him doing things that could cause issues for him isn't ideal.)  I consider the funeral trappings to be a waste of money *IF* the are done out of some obligation to me, or some pressure to make sure I'm properly "honored".  But if they serve a purpose of the living beyone "honor Villanelle" and "this is what people expect" then they aren't a waste.

So, if it is about me and what I'd want, then yes, I'll be dead and won't care so go cheap and easy.  If it is about them helping themselves process,  call the taxidermiest, I guess, if that's what it take. 

GilesMM

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2023, 09:01:53 PM »
Cremation is the cheapest, simplest and most efficient way to go. Can be as little as $500.

314159

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2023, 12:23:13 AM »
I'm deciding between cremation (but who the heck will want the urn?), green burial, and whole-body donation. The latter two require some prior action and documentation but seem like the best of the lot. I like the idea that my remains could help protect land against development (green burial), or may turn into some crazy science experiment (I could end up in a body farm!).

Ever since I saw "A Will for the Woods" I've been intrigued by the green burial idea.  http://www.awillforthewoods.com/

I've seen this film; it was good. I like idea too.

My grandfather and grandmother died within a few months of each other a few years ago. (Sounds kind of romantic, but they were separated for many years until my grandpa had a stroke and required full time care, so he moved back in with my grandma and she just put up with it I guess? They had an odd relationship, the opposite of a role model. Anyway, I digress.)

Their funerals were very similar too. They both had a closed-casket graveside service. We all arrived, and the body was already in a casket in the back of the hearse. The pallbearers brought it from the hearse to the grave, where it slid on top of a metal rack over the enormous, heavy steel vault. There was a priest on hand to give the service, though he didn't know the deceased. With everyone standing in a rough circle around the grave, it really felt like a funeral scene in a Mafia movie. I was half expecting to see some feds with long range parabolic microphones and binoculars standing at the edge of the cemetery.

I appreciated how the service was short and sweet. I think it was about 20 minutes. Then we each had a chance to lay a hand on the casket and "say goodbye". After that, we relocated to a nearby restaurant where we had one of the private rooms. There were photos and such to look at and spark storytelling. There were plenty of things to snack on, and an open bar. I think I would term this part a "reception" but maybe that term is only used for weddings?

The part that made the least sense to me was: after the service, we all just left the casket sitting there above the grave. I wanted closure! Literally! But that involves loud, ugly machinery, both to lower the casket into the grave and then to rebury it, tamp it, etc. It made me feel like there was unfinished business we were leaving behind.

Between those funerals and seeing the green burial film, I have a clear picture of my ideal funeral. Before anyone arrives, my body has been wrapped in a cotton burial shroud. The grave has already been dug - it's fine if it was by machine. There is some kind of ceremony, details not super important to me, but appropriately somber and reflective. What is important is that at the end of the ceremony, they lower me into the grave. Maybe through some flower or pine boughs or whatever on top to keep me smelling fresh. Then, my guests bury me. I hope everyone in attendance can shovel at least one spadeful of earth. (Once everyone has had a turn, ideally the booze would start to come out, but the cemetery management probably discourages that.) After you've shoveled at least once, you can tap out, or keep going until you need a break, with folks cycling in and out. The group remains at the grave until I've been fully buried by hand. (I will concede tamping to take place by machine if needed, after everyone has left the graveside, but I think most green burial places don't allow that anyway, preferring the mounding approach.) After that, they can move to another site to have the party with food and more drinks, the fun stories, and so on.

My fiancťe always says "here's what I want for my funeral, but remember, funerals are meant for the living. I'll be dead, so I won't care whether you heed my wishes." Fair enough!

sonofsven

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Re: Mustachian body disposal?
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2023, 08:01:40 AM »
I've always "had eyes" for a viking funeral: place me in my boat, set fire to it, and shove off
However, it's not a real solution in today's world.
Second then would be composting. Returning something of value to the soil seems the least I could do. Like the salmon carcasses that litter the spawning grounds and provide nutrients to the surrounding forests.
Most likely I'll be cremated and returned to a body of water (or two: one where I grew up and one where I've lived as an adult).
Two generations of my immediate family (father and sister) have had ashes spread in Hood Canal; out past the oyster beds, right in the middle of the Dungeness crab grounds. Yum yum.