Living in a shed

[funnybunny]

Actually, I'm in the process of building a one room guest house in the back yard. I plan to live there for the next 2 years until the house gets paid off. I'm renting out the 3 rooms in the house to cover my mortgage and utility payments. So is this considered extreme?

After the house gets paid off I am considering having one roommate to cover the utilities.

[PtboEliz]

I like it! Well, assuming you have electricity and a W/C.. :)
Good luck with the build.

[Roland of Gilead]

After the house gets paid off I am considering having one roommate to cover the utilities.

Is the shed big enough for a roommate?

[FIreDrill]

Pretty Badass FunnyBunny.  I applaud you!

[funnybunny]

The shed is 12x16 which is 192 sq ft. We have a 200 sf ft limit on sheds that do not require a building permit.

I think it will be perfect for one person. I don't know about a roommate but I think a girlfriend staying over is totally possible.

[funnybunny]

Silly me. I just reread Roland's post and just figured out what it meant.

I meant that I will continue to rent one of the 3 rooms in the main house to pay for utilities.

I'll probably move back into the house. Or maybe someone might want to rent out the shed. =)

I'm calling it a shed but it is easily nicer than any room in the house. It has sound proof insulation and sound proof windows.

I'll also commission some paintings of the characters from My Little Pony. I will also install stained glass windows.

[Gone Fishing]

Sounds like a fun build!  Keep us updated.

[Little House]

I love this idea! I write a lot about tiny houses and sheds. I'd love to share your story on my site (littlehouseinthevalley.com). Are you building a prefab shed, like a TUFFshed?

[TurtleMarkets]

What do the renters think of some weird guy living in a shack in the backyard?

[Dyk]

Awesome!!!  Totally awesome!!!

[Dulcimina]

Will it have a bathroom and kitchen, or will you be using the main house for that?

[retirein5yrs]

That's awesome!!

I always wanted to do something like this - maybe I will still (just have to convince my gf of the benefits!)

[guitar_stitch]

I'll also commission some paintings of the characters from My Little Pony. I will also install stained glass windows.

Mustachian Brony?

[funnybunny]

To answer some of the questions from the recent
posts.

Little House,

The shed is built from scratch. I ordered high quality wood from the lumber yard. The kind of wood that is not available at Lowes or Home Depot. The shed is framed way beyond the required code. It's likely to last for over a hundred years if maintained.

Turtle,

My renters seem to be cool with it since I'm
calling it a mediation room. hehe =)

Dulcimina,

It's just one amazingly well built room.
I will have to go into the main house to use
the kitchen and bathroom.

Guitar,

At first I was going for a 12 foot mural of ponies gazing in a mystical valley. But that seemed a bit too much. I'm settling for 2x3 portraits of the ponies.

[Exflyboy]

Hmm, not having to have a permit is a very good idea.. not only from avoiding the fee for the building permit.. But also because you won't have to tell them you are setting up a second residence on a single property tax lot.

Around here at least having a shed with a kitchen is considered a second (and therefore Illegal) residence.


Other than that.. this is radically BA!...:)

[dragoncar]

Kinda want to do this.. Not to live in but just to learn how to build stuff and use for whatever.  How much in building costs assuming I do everything myself for 10x10?

[TurtleMarkets]

The libertarian in me thinks it is cool and support you. The neighborhood home owner in me would hate you. I would be pretty annoyed if I had a neighbor with a bunch of people living in a house and then started building shacks in the back yard. But, i live in a community where that is banned.

[funnybunny]

Dragon Car,

Here's a break down of the cost of building a 10x10 shed. Prices are from Lowes.

Foundation
If using concrete piers spaced 5 feet in all directions.

Piers 9 x $3 = $27

Floor

2x8x10 pressure treated studs 11 x $16.27 = $179
23/32 inch plywood subfloor 4 x $30 = $120

Walls

2x4x10 bottom and top plates studs 12 x $3.82 = $46
2x4x8 studs 32 x $2.65 = $85
OSB shealthing 10 x $10 = $100
Tar paper house wrap 1 x $20 = $20
T1-11 siding 10 x $36 = $360

Door
36x80 Fiber Glass $189
Door Knob         $20   

Window
3x3 vinyl siding window $186

Roof

1/2 plywood 7 x $20 = $140
2x4x8 studs 16 x $2.65 = $42
Roof felt paper $20
AR laminate Shingles 9 x $25 = $225

Screws and fastners $100

2 gallons of primer $50
2 gallons of exterior paint $70
Tubes of caulking 8 x 3 = $24
Trim for window and corners $90
Paint brush $15
Tray and roller $8
Painters tape $8

Total $2124

[WheelPage]

I have a friend, whom is having lots of money problems. But he rents out two rooms, one room he built himself and he hasn't had any issues with the roommates or his neighbors disliking them/him. He doesn't live in a shed, but we play games in his garage and still haven't had any issues with his neighbors. I don't think your situation is weird at all. Congratulations on the badassness!

Please keep us updated and post pictures!!

[funnybunny]

Turtle,

I totally hear you. Fortunately, my lot has a very large back yard where you don't see much of the shed from the side street.
Plus I plan on lining the outside facing side of the shed with those tall shrubs in planters which will create a natural fence like barrier that will camo the shed. From the street, cars passing by will think it's just a line of shrubs.

Even so, this is an affluent neighborhood with million dollar homes right across the street and all around the block and several people have filed complaints with the city. The head city inspector came by with his measuring tape to make sure everything was legit. Fortunately, I followed every shed building rule the city published to the letter and they could not find a single problem so legally, the neighbors can not do a thing.

Plus this is only for 2 years. All the roommates will be gone by then and I will only have my car parked in front of the house and the neighborhood will be back to normal again.

[funnybunny]

One more thing I forgot to mention. This is not your run of the mill shed. It is built with high end materials and
it looks nicer than my house. So it actually fits right in with the nice houses in the neighbor and I would even wager that it's better built.

[TurtleMarkets]

That is cool. You sound like you put effort into it and take pride in the way it looks.

[dragoncar]

One more thing I forgot to mention. This is not your run of the mill shed. It is built with high end materials and
it looks nicer than my house. So it actually fits right in with the nice houses in the neighbor and I would even wager that it's better built.

Cool this is my goal and thanks for the breakdown above.  Did you find any online plans or guides or are you just a construction badass and made your own plan?  I may alternatively get a trailer and build a tiny house on that since I'll need permits to add electricity plumbing etc to my meditation hut.  I'm thinking something with lots of sliding/banking doors so it can be opened as a cabana on warm days or closed to the elements at night.  I assume high end materials will cost more

[soccerluvof4]

If those people are already complaining I would be more concerned once your living in it. People will go to great lengths to create you trouble like maybe even video taping you to prove your living in it. Hopefully this wont happen but I think you will be lucky to get away with it imho.  But i do like the idea and think its badass! all the best. Keep us in the loop!

[Chranstronaut]

This reminds me of someone I saw on airbnb with a little trailer in their backyard: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/762029?s

It doesn't sound too crazy to me.  Garages converted into mother-in-law apartments are pretty common around me, but I don't know if it's legal to rent them out.  I'd be pretty upset as a tenant if I found out I wasn't legally allowed to be there, personally.

spork could tell you a thing or two about living in a shed...

[funnybunny]

Dragon Car,

I built the shed from scratch by watching framing videos on youtube and walking around
the neighborhood to look at all the new construction. Toll Brothers is suppose to be
a high end builder but I'm seeing a lot of cost savings and cutting corners like using OSB for the roof. Also some of the nails at not even attached to the studs because the builders are  in such a rush firing off dozens of nails without even looking. I caulked lined everything and took my sweet time. Plus I can go back and put on the finishing touches that no builder
would ever do. I triple studded each corner so drywalling will be easier. Most builder use single studs. I used sound proof insulation all around. The expense is insane but it's so quiet.

Soccerluv,

I also considered that outcome which is why I did a year of research and asked the city what
the laws were on living in a shed. As the owner of the house, I am free to live in the shed.
However, I am not allowed to rent it out to anyone for income. Fair enough. I wouldn't risk
some careless roommate breaking my custom designed stain glass windows anyways.

[Little House]

I'd still love to see photos and share it on my site if you're willing to share! I think it's an awesome idea, having a small guest house behind a main house and a great way to pay off your mortgage. You can contact me through my website.

[Michael792]

The libertarian in me thinks it is cool and support you. The neighborhood home owner in me would hate you. I would be pretty annoyed if I had a neighbor with a bunch of people living in a house and then started building shacks in the back yard. But, i live in a community where that is banned.

Why are so many people concerned with their neighbors' actions? Like, why does our society have to ban people from building their own things and living in them? What's wrong with that?If it aint on your property, it aint your business.

[greaper007]

Nice, what will you do for heat in the winter?    Wood burning stove?

[TurtleMarkets]

Why are so many people concerned with their neighbors' actions? Like, why does our society have to ban people from building their own things and living in them? What's wrong with that?If it aint on your property, it aint your business.
[/quote]

Because it does matter. If your out in the country or have closed private yards it may not be that big of deal but in a neighborhood it matters a lot. 

If my neighbors actions didnt effect my home price I wouldn't care. But if my neighbor builds a village of makeshift shacks in his yard for low rent. That would make my home unsaleable and basically worthless. People behaving within normal bounds arnt the reason for all the rules. it is the crazies and extremists. 

People do have choices where they live. I want to live in a neighborhood with strict rules. Ill will forgo my freedom to do stuff just to keep crazy people from ruining things. We should have the freedom to come together as a group of home owners and make rules. If those rules were there from the inception of the neighborhood and all home sales in the future should be contingent of the new owner following those rules. If someone doesnt want to play along, buy a house somewhere else.

[iris lily]

Because it does matter. If your out in the country or have closed private yards it may not be that big of deal but in a neighborhood it matters a lot. 

If my neighbors actions didnt effect my home price I wouldn't care. But if my neighbor builds a village of makeshift shacks in his yard for low rent. That would make my home unsaleable and basically worthless. People behaving within normal bounds arnt the reason for all the rules. it is the crazies and extremists. 

People do have choices where they live. I want to live in a neighborhood with strict rules. Ill will forgo my freedom to do stuff just to keep crazy people from ruining things. We should have the freedom to come together as a group of home owners and make rules. If those rules were there from the inception of the neighborhood and all home sales in the future should be contingent of the new owner following those rules. If someone doesnt want to play along, buy a house somewhere else.

Yep, I completely agree, and would argue that this is the true Libertarian view: We should have the freedom to come together as a group of home owners and make rules

I live in an historic district that has a much higher average real estate value than places with similar housing stock without the historic building covenants. I am always amazed at the attitude of people who buy here because it's a "nice" and desirable neighborhood, and then throw temper tantrums because they can't put whatever crap they want to put on the facade of their house. doh.

As you say, If someone doesn't want to play along, buy a house somewhere else. That is the true freedom, choices.

[Michael792]

Why are so many people concerned with their neighbors' actions? Like, why does our society have to ban people from building their own things and living in them? What's wrong with that?If it aint on your property, it aint your business.

Because it does matter. If your out in the country or have closed private yards it may not be that big of deal but in a neighborhood it matters a lot. 

If my neighbors actions didnt effect my home price I wouldn't care. But if my neighbor builds a village of makeshift shacks in his yard for low rent. That would make my home unsaleable and basically worthless. People behaving within normal bounds arnt the reason for all the rules. it is the crazies and extremists. 

People do have choices where they live. I want to live in a neighborhood with strict rules. Ill will forgo my freedom to do stuff just to keep crazy people from ruining things. We should have the freedom to come together as a group of home owners and make rules. If those rules were there from the inception of the neighborhood and all home sales in the future should be contingent of the new owner following those rules. If someone doesnt want to play along, buy a house somewhere else.
[/quote]

Ok, that makes sense. I never got the arguments people came up with, because I am from the country. Very private, not a lot of people around. I can see what you're talking about now, though.

[Emilyngh]

the rules. it is the crazies and extremists. 

Ok, that makes sense. I never got the arguments people came up with, because I am from the country. Very private, not a lot of people around. I can see what you're talking about now, though.

Yeah, it's different out here in the country.   Last winter, our neighbor let a friend build a plastic covered frame to live in on his property.   You could see it from our property is you stood in the right spot and squinted, but I didn't give a rat's ass b/c really, why would I?   We have a good relationship with the neighbor and help each other out, and it just didn't cause any problems.

I can see how this might be different if in closer quarters, although, I'm not sure I buy the "property value" argument for most cases.   Why in the world would this matter unless one is selling right then (which I didn't see anyone mention)?

[JustTrying]

We have a neighbor who rents out her garage. She previously rented it to an artist or something, and that was just fine. Now recently, she rented it out to an old guy who just has a bunch of toys (motorcycles, cars, etc). It specified in the lease that he was not to sleep in the garage, but she soon realized that he was sleeping in it every night. My husband and I think it's funny because he'd rather have his toys than a place to live! Plus, there's no bathroom or heat in the garage! We can't figure out where he showers or relieves himself!

[forummm]

Dragon Car,

Here's a break down of the cost of building a 10x10 shed. Prices are from Lowes.

...

Total $2124

So no heat, A/C, plumbing, lights or any electrical. Sounds like you'll really be spending a lot of time in your house and not the shed.

It might be against code to rent out the shed to someone else since it doesn't have heating or plumbing.

Is that the cost for everything (other than stained glass windows)? I don't see any costs for the sound proof insulation, or other things like drywall (which you may not have added).

[funnybunny]

That was just a break down for a 10x10  barebones shed. My shed is 12x16 and costs about $8000. Metal roof, and other high end upgrades add up very quickly. I got sound proof windows. The kind with very thick glass that weights about twice a regular window. The shed is very well insulated. Even the floor is insulated. As for heating, I will have one electrical outlet which can run a heater or lamp. So I will have heat and light and wi-fi. I checked with the city inspector and you are correct. I cannot rent the shed to a roommate. However, it is totally legal if I live in there.

[iris lily]

I actually do like this idea, I just think that without incoming water or outgoing sewage, you really aren't "living" there. Plumbing is the expensive stuff, a electric line is pretty simple. So you could totally "cook" there pub for lack of running water. OTOH you could hook up a hose device from the exterior faucet of your house and be there with running water! Now, just get a composting toilet and baby, you are totally living there!

 I assume that you live in a mostly temperate climate. It's good that you carefully planned this according to current ordinances.

Again, I like this idea. I live in a Victorian neighborhood where there are lots and lots of carriage houses over the garages. They are cute when fixed up. I can see a smart single person fixing up the house and renting it, then moving into the carriage house. sit back and pull in the $$$.

[zolotiyeruki]

funnybunny, any chance you could share some pictures and/or drawings of your shed?  It sounds like a great project!

[greenmimama]

Sounds like a great way to excel your FIRE, you could even continue this living arrangement after the home is paid off to do other things you wanted, like travel, or retire. It's a cool situation for sure.

[Spork]

Applause for you.

We did the exact same thing (though lower on the badass scale than you).  Our shed was 600sqft (a workshop) and did have a tiny kitchen and bath.  We lived there 6 years while saving money to build a real house.

[Zikoris]

Can you post pictures? As a big city apartment dweller with no talent/ability in construction at all, I absolutely LOVE seeing cool things other people build. Living vicariously through other people's badass projects and all that.

[sly]

Actually, I'm in the process of building a one room guest house in the back yard. I plan to live there for the next 2 years until the house gets paid off. I'm renting out the 3 rooms in the house to cover my mortgage and utility payments. So is this considered extreme?

After the house gets paid off I am considering having one roommate to cover the utilities.

your sir are pretty badass

extreme? I don't know that anything is really considered extreme anymore. Even voluntary homelessness isn't completely out of the picture :-)

[Bob W]

I believe I would add a rain water collection system for a sink and shower and a humanure compost type toilet.  (basically a 5 gallon bucket with saw dust and a nice seat).    Or at least run a hose from the main house for water.   You could spend 20 bucks on a hose (use RV grade one),  20 for the toilet system and make a nice tiled shower for $100.  For heat you might consider a small propane unit.  Just don't kill yourself from oxygen depletion.   

If your just showering and using a little cooking water you can safely discharge the water into your garden or pond system.  Get the 1.5 gallon shower head and use the navy shower method to use less than a gallon of water per day.  A ringer washer and clothes line might fit into your design as well?  The sawdust toilet waste can be composted and added to the garden or planted areas for a nice free fertilizer.

With those items added I could easily live there fulltime and never visit the house.

For luxury you should consider adding a very nice patio with some pretty plants and shade/solar exposure to expand your "living" room and accommodate guests.   MMM used this concept nicely in his new digs.

So the idea for me would be to make this "home" your long term plan and make it as special and beautiful as you can dream.  Think solar powered fountains and koi ponds,  bird feeders and colorful flowers. Ambient exterior lighting at night?   A super luxury foo ton with lots of pillows.  Efficient and nice hand designed and made furniture.   Maybe a nice fire pit and a nice propane barbeque unit.   It should be so cool that the folks in the house want to come hang out at your place!

As far as extreme.  Nope!   Right in line my friend.   Theoretically, you could live there indefinitely and be retired off the rental income.

I would also run the numbers on paying off the home vs.  investing.

Personally and logically I would never chose to pay off a home.   The math is pretty simple -- borrow money at 3-4% and invest money at 8-10%.   

If you pay off the home you are giving up about 5% of the value of the home each year.  So let's say the home is worth 120K and you borrow 100K on it.  The renters will continue to cover the mortgage/insurance/taxes.

But you now have 100K plus the 100K you were going to use to pay it off.  That should safely yield 9K per year.    Since you have no house expenses of your own and you'll be riding a bike with a large veggie garden, your monthly living expenses will be less than $200.   You'll have 6K of play money per year left over. 

You will in fact be retired.

As a side note -- since many of the posters where concerned about property values and the neighbors,  (I am too)  I would make damn sure that my lawn was the nicest in the neighborhood and that the landscaping was beautiful.  I would also consider parking rules that limit parking and guest parking so that vehicles on the driveway or in the street are not an eyesore.  Keep the exterior of the house the best maintained in the neighborhood.

Keep on rocking my friend!  Great post!

[arebelspy]

Awesomely badass.

Caution to others: zoning is often an issue for things like this.  Glad you checked with the city inspector, and hopefully read up on the relevant laws/codes.

Adding my voice to those who would love to see drawings/pictures.  :)